Throughline – The Ojibwe Nation

Podcast: Throughline (NPR)
Episode Air Date: March 24, 2026
Series: America in Pursuit
Hosts: Ramtin Arablouei, Rund Abdelfatah
Featured Guests: Anton Troyer (Ojibwe Historian), Brenda Child (Ojibwe Historian), various storytellers and commentators

Episode Overview

This episode explores the history of the Ojibwe (Chippewa) people, tracing their migration and adaptation in the face of U.S. westward expansion. Through stories and expert insights, the Throughline team unpacks how, amid growing external pressures, the Ojibwe forged new forms of unity and leadership to defend their land, only to confront policies designed to assimilate and dispossess them. The episode centers on the dramatic life and controversial leadership of “Hole in the Day the Younger,” illuminating both the resilience and the vulnerabilities of the Ojibwe Nation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Ojibwe Origins and Migrations

[02:26–03:46]

• The Ojibwe people originally lived on the East Coast, thriving through indigenous agriculture, fishing, and hunting.
• Driven by prophecy to find “the land where food grows on water” (wild rice), the Ojibwe embarked on a slow westward migration to the Great Lakes region.
• Anton Troyer: “It feels different when your family's been buried in the same place longer than America has been a country.” (02:35)
• Emphasis on “persistent migration patterns” and decentralized leadership—Ojibwe culture was traditionally resistant to centralized authority, fostering tolerance but resisting any sense of national identity.

  “If someone got too bossy... someone else was moving down the river and saying, ‘they’re not my chief.’” (03:51, Anton Troyer)

Interaction with Colonial Powers

[04:29–05:08]

• Ojibwe groups brokered deals with neighboring Dakota people, French and British colonists, and eventually the U.S. government.
• U.S. expansion intensified conflicts and incentivized the formation of a more unified Ojibwe identity as a means of negotiation.

The Rise of “Hole in the Day” and Centralized Leadership

[05:14–08:44]

• Context: Amid settler encroachment, the idea of an Ojibwe nation emerged out of necessity.
• Hole in the Day the Elder inspired unity, and on his deathbed, implored his son to “take the tribe by the hand. Show them how to walk.” (06:18, Brenda Child/Anton Troyer)
• Hole in the Day the Younger inherited this ambition, assertively positioning himself as the chief of all Ojibwe people—a claim that impressed Americans but ruffled traditional Ojibwe leaders.

  “If I say sell, we sell. And if I say no, we don’t... It belongs to me. My father, by his bravery, took it from the Sioux... when he died, I took his place and am consequently chief over all the nation.” (07:25–07:53, dramatized Hole in the Day the Younger)

• His audacity led Americans to prioritize negotiating with him—a shortcut that gave him power but also undermined traditional, decentralized Ojibwe governance structures.

Treaty Negotiations and Strategic Adaptation

[08:44–11:20]

• Hole in the Day was adept at negotiating with the U.S. government, refusing to cede land without demanding tangible support for his people.
• When pressed to consolidate the Ojibwe into one reservation (1868), he sought infrastructure and economic investment as preconditions:

  “I want them to build a house for every single one of you. I want them to build a grist mill and a sawmill... Don’t go anywhere. If you go, we will lose our leverage...” (11:02–11:20, Anton Troyer)

• Recognized the impossibility of resisting U.S. expansion but pivoted to securing a viable future.

Tragedy and Aftermath: Assassination & Loss of Land

[11:47–13:32]

• On his way to Washington, D.C., Hole in the Day the Younger was assassinated in 1868—ushering in grief, disarray, and an immediate uptick in white settlement and further loss of Ojibwe land.

  “Hole in the Day’s death created a power vacuum that resulted in the loss of more and more Ojibwe land.” (12:18, Ojibwe Storyteller)

• His death marked the end of unified Ojibwe resistance and accelerated vulnerabilities to U.S. policies.

The Allotment Era and Assimilation Policies

[13:05–15:54]

• Allotment divided tribal lands into individual parcels (“the allotment act of 1887”), incentivizing private ownership and undermining communal structures.
• Assimilation pressures intensified:

  “Kill the Indian, save the man...” (14:00, Ojibwe Storyteller) “There was consensus that Indian people needed to change... they can become citizens, speak English, become Christians, Americanize.” (14:22, Brenda Child)

• Ostensibly progressive, the policy was a veil for dispossession:

  “Politicians and timber companies and banks... conspired... to dispossess Indians of their land.” (15:37, Brenda Child)

• By the end of the allotment era, tribes lost control of more than 90 million acres.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Anton Troyer:
  “It feels different when your family’s been buried in the same place longer than America has been a country.” (02:35)
• Hole in the Day the Younger (dramatic recreation):
  “If I say sell, we sell. And if I say no, we don’t... when he died, I took his place and am consequently chief over all the nation.” (07:25–07:53)
• Hole in the Day the Younger:
  “Though it may cost me my liberty, it is my duty and I will continue to speak and act also till the wrongs of my people shall be righted.” (09:04)
• Brenda Child:
  “Kill the Indian, save the man would soon be a common refrain. The idea was to get rid of all Native culture at any cost.” (14:00)
• Brenda Child:
  “Politicians and timber companies and banks in Minnesota conspired with one another to dispossess Indians of their land.” (15:37)

Important Segment Timestamps

• Ojibwe Migration and Culture: 02:26–04:29
• Colonial Encounters and Emergence of a Nation: 04:29–05:56
• The Legacy of Hole in the Day (Leadership, Negotiations, Assassination): 05:14–12:26
• Allotment and Assimilation: 13:05–15:54
• Reflections and Warnings about Assimilation: 14:00–15:54
• End/Tease for Next Episode: 16:40

Tone & Style

Throughline’s narrative is vivid, engaging, and empathetic—centering Ojibwe voices and historical context. The hosts and contributors blend authoritative history with storytelling, dramatizations, and impactful quotes, maintaining a respectful but urgent tone throughout.

For Further Listening

Listeners interested in a deeper dive are invited to check out the full-length episode, “A Tale of Two Tribal Nations,” focusing on the enduring impact of allotment and policies on different Ojibwe bands.

Summary prepared for listeners seeking a comprehensive yet concise overview of Throughline’s “The Ojibwe Nation.”