The Ojibwe Nation

Summary

Throughline – The Ojibwe Nation

Podcast: Throughline (NPR)
Episode Air Date: March 24, 2026
Series: America in Pursuit
Hosts: Ramtin Arablouei, Rund Abdelfatah
Featured Guests: Anton Troyer (Ojibwe Historian), Brenda Child (Ojibwe Historian), various storytellers and commentators

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the history of the Ojibwe (Chippewa) people, tracing their migration and adaptation in the face of U.S. westward expansion. Through stories and expert insights, the Throughline team unpacks how, amid growing external pressures, the Ojibwe forged new forms of unity and leadership to defend their land, only to confront policies designed to assimilate and dispossess them. The episode centers on the dramatic life and controversial leadership of “Hole in the Day the Younger,” illuminating both the resilience and the vulnerabilities of the Ojibwe Nation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Ojibwe Origins and Migrations

[02:26–03:46]

• The Ojibwe people originally lived on the East Coast, thriving through indigenous agriculture, fishing, and hunting.
• Driven by prophecy to find “the land where food grows on water” (wild rice), the Ojibwe embarked on a slow westward migration to the Great Lakes region.
• Anton Troyer: “It feels different when your family's been buried in the same place longer than America has been a country.” (02:35)
• Emphasis on “persistent migration patterns” and decentralized leadership—Ojibwe culture was traditionally resistant to centralized authority, fostering tolerance but resisting any sense of national identity.

  “If someone got too bossy... someone else was moving down the river and saying, ‘they’re not my chief.’” (03:51, Anton Troyer)

Interaction with Colonial Powers

[04:29–05:08]

• Ojibwe groups brokered deals with neighboring Dakota people, French and British colonists, and eventually the U.S. government.
• U.S. expansion intensified conflicts and incentivized the formation of a more unified Ojibwe identity as a means of negotiation.

The Rise of “Hole in the Day” and Centralized Leadership

[05:14–08:44]

• Context: Amid settler encroachment, the idea of an Ojibwe nation emerged out of necessity.
• Hole in the Day the Elder inspired unity, and on his deathbed, implored his son to “take the tribe by the hand. Show them how to walk.” (06:18, Brenda Child/Anton Troyer)
• Hole in the Day the Younger inherited this ambition, assertively positioning himself as the chief of all Ojibwe people—a claim that impressed Americans but ruffled traditional Ojibwe leaders.

  “If I say sell, we sell. And if I say no, we don’t... It belongs to me. My father, by his bravery, took it from the Sioux... when he died, I took his place and am consequently chief over all the nation.” (07:25–07:53, dramatized Hole in the Day the Younger)

• His audacity led Americans to prioritize negotiating with him—a shortcut that gave him power but also undermined traditional, decentralized Ojibwe governance structures.

Treaty Negotiations and Strategic Adaptation

[08:44–11:20]

• Hole in the Day was adept at negotiating with the U.S. government, refusing to cede land without demanding tangible support for his people.
• When pressed to consolidate the Ojibwe into one reservation (1868), he sought infrastructure and economic investment as preconditions:

  “I want them to build a house for every single one of you. I want them to build a grist mill and a sawmill... Don’t go anywhere. If you go, we will lose our leverage...” (11:02–11:20, Anton Troyer)

• Recognized the impossibility of resisting U.S. expansion but pivoted to securing a viable future.

Tragedy and Aftermath: Assassination & Loss of Land

[11:47–13:32]

• On his way to Washington, D.C., Hole in the Day the Younger was assassinated in 1868—ushering in grief, disarray, and an immediate uptick in white settlement and further loss of Ojibwe land.

  “Hole in the Day’s death created a power vacuum that resulted in the loss of more and more Ojibwe land.” (12:18, Ojibwe Storyteller)

• His death marked the end of unified Ojibwe resistance and accelerated vulnerabilities to U.S. policies.

The Allotment Era and Assimilation Policies

[13:05–15:54]

• Allotment divided tribal lands into individual parcels (“the allotment act of 1887”), incentivizing private ownership and undermining communal structures.
• Assimilation pressures intensified:

  “Kill the Indian, save the man...” (14:00, Ojibwe Storyteller) “There was consensus that Indian people needed to change... they can become citizens, speak English, become Christians, Americanize.” (14:22, Brenda Child)

• Ostensibly progressive, the policy was a veil for dispossession:

  “Politicians and timber companies and banks... conspired... to dispossess Indians of their land.” (15:37, Brenda Child)

• By the end of the allotment era, tribes lost control of more than 90 million acres.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Anton Troyer:
  “It feels different when your family’s been buried in the same place longer than America has been a country.” (02:35)
• Hole in the Day the Younger (dramatic recreation):
  “If I say sell, we sell. And if I say no, we don’t... when he died, I took his place and am consequently chief over all the nation.” (07:25–07:53)
• Hole in the Day the Younger:
  “Though it may cost me my liberty, it is my duty and I will continue to speak and act also till the wrongs of my people shall be righted.” (09:04)
• Brenda Child:
  “Kill the Indian, save the man would soon be a common refrain. The idea was to get rid of all Native culture at any cost.” (14:00)
• Brenda Child:
  “Politicians and timber companies and banks in Minnesota conspired with one another to dispossess Indians of their land.” (15:37)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Ojibwe Migration and Culture: 02:26–04:29
• Colonial Encounters and Emergence of a Nation: 04:29–05:56
• The Legacy of Hole in the Day (Leadership, Negotiations, Assassination): 05:14–12:26
• Allotment and Assimilation: 13:05–15:54
• Reflections and Warnings about Assimilation: 14:00–15:54
• End/Tease for Next Episode: 16:40

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Tone & Style

Throughline’s narrative is vivid, engaging, and empathetic—centering Ojibwe voices and historical context. The hosts and contributors blend authoritative history with storytelling, dramatizations, and impactful quotes, maintaining a respectful but urgent tone throughout.

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For Further Listening

Listeners interested in a deeper dive are invited to check out the full-length episode, “A Tale of Two Tribal Nations,” focusing on the enduring impact of allotment and policies on different Ojibwe bands.

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Summary prepared for listeners seeking a comprehensive yet concise overview of Throughline’s “The Ojibwe Nation.”

Transcript

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[Ramtin Arablouei]

This is America in Pursuit, a limited run series from Throughline and npr. I'm Ramtin Arablouei. Each week we bring you stories about life, liberty and the pursuit of pursuit of happiness in the US that began 250 years ago. Up until this point in the series, we've been talking about the birth of the United States as a nation and how different groups of people pushed for the expansion of what it meant to be American. But the reality is Native people inhabited the land that we now call the United States long before Europeans set foot on North America. And as the US Continued to grow and expand, native peoples had different experiences and relationships with the strangers that arrived on their shores. Today on the show, NPR reporter Sequoyah Carrillo and Throughline producer Anya Steinberg bring us the story of the Ojibwe people and how in the face of US Westward expansion, they created a nation to try to preserve their land and way of life. That story after a quick break.

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[Narrator]

The story goes back over a thousand years to how Ojibwe people first came to the Great Lakes region.

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

It feels different when your family's been buried in the same place longer than America has been a country.

[Narrator]

This is Anton Troyer. He's a professor of Ojibwe at Bemidji State University. For him, the story of how the Ojibwe people ended up calling these lakes home is a personal one.

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

At one point in time, just a couple thousand years ago, we lived on the East Coast Atlantic coast, which was a land abundant in Small game, big game, well suited for indigenous agriculture. Lots of fish in the sea, lots of fish in inland lakes.

[Narrator]

We can track the beginning of Ojibwe people to Algonquian language tribes from the east coast.

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

We had prophets who appeared and said, move west to the land where food grows on water. It was a reference to the wild rice. And there was a long migration, and it was a long, slow process.

[Narrator]

For centuries, Ojibwe people kept moving, and

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

as a result, we ended up spanning a huge geography, thousands of miles until

[Narrator]

they made it to the Great Lakes region. But even then, movement was still a

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

part of life because of this persistent migration pattern. Over a long period of time, if someone got too bossy or even just got too much influence, someone else was usually moving down the river and saying, they're not my chief. So Ojibwe culture tended to be very tolerant of cultural variation but very intolerant of being told what to do. There was no such thing as a national Ojibwe identity, so there was no such thing as an Ojibwe nation.

[Ojibwe Storyteller/Expert]

For decades, Ojibwe people lived in small communities across the region. They brokered deals with the neighboring Dakota people, as well as the French, the British, and after the American Revolution Revolution. The US Government.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

The United States do engage to guarantee to the aforesaid nation of Delawares and their heirs all their territorial rights in the fullest and most ample manner. 1778.

[Ojibwe Storyteller/Expert]

And that's when things began to change in a big way, because the more US Settlers and business leaders encroached on Ojibwe homelands, the more some leaders felt they had to act as a single entity.

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

It's important to note that that was a new development, and it naturally met with a lot of resistance.

[Ojibwe Storyteller/Expert]

But still, the idea of an Ojibwe nation was fast becoming an appealing tool for negotiating with the US Government. And perhaps no one saw that more clearly than the chief of the Mississippi band of Ojibwe Bogunagizhig, or as he was known in English, Hole in the day,

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

he was distinguished for his eloquence, wisdom, and force of argument. The young men of his tribe acknowledged him as a leader.

[Narrator]

Missionary Alfred Brunson Holan the day had big dreams to lead the Ojibwe people, and his ideas were starting to work. People were drawn to him. One day, after drinking a little too much whiskey with some fur traders, he fell off his wagon in a sleep stupor and was crushed. It seemed like the end of his great vision for the Ojibwe people. But as he lay dying, he summoned his son. And with his last breath he said,

[Brenda Child]

take the tribe by the hand.

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

Show them how to walk.

[Narrator]

His 19 year old son took his name and became Hole in the Day the Younger. He vowed to make his father's dream come true and promised to usher in a new era of one Ojibwe nation.

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

Hole in the Dey was quite brash. He sometimes inflamed other Ojibwe leaders when he would claim to be chief of them all or chief of an entire region that included multiple villages, many of which had their own chiefs.

[Ojibwe Storyteller/Expert]

Holland the day was young. He was cocky and he was ready to make his mark. And he made that obvious at his first treaty negotiation in 1847.

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

His father had just passed away, and there might have been 200 other Ojibwe leaders from around the region there. And he said he came a day late. And then he said, stop what you're doing. Now, if I say sell, we sell. And if I say no, we don't.

[Hole in the Day the Younger]

You have called together all the chiefs and headmen of the nation. That was useless, for they do not own the land. It belongs to me. My father, by his bravery, took it from the Sioux. He died a few moons ago, and what belonged to him became mine. He, by his courage and perseverance, became head chief. And when he died, I took his place and am consequently chief over all the nation.

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

Which was ridiculous and probably offensive, but really impressed the Americans.

[Historian/Commentator]

Here were powerful chiefs, some of them 70 or 80 years old, who, before his coming, spoke sneeringly of him as a boy who could have no voice in the council saying there was no use in waiting for him. But when he appeared, they became his most submissive and obedient subjects. And this and a treaty in which a million acres of land were ceded. The terms of the treaty were concluded between the commissioners and young Hole in the day alone.

[Ojibwe Storyteller/Expert]

The move was a big gamble, but it paid off. Holen the day the Younger quickly ascended to power. He took the helm at a moment when Native land across North America was being lost at an alarming rate.

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

He was one of the most effective and knowledgeable Ojibwe leaders of his time. He had traveled to Washington, D.C. many times. He was not a passive leader, just waiting to see what would happen to the people.

[Ojibwe Storyteller/Expert]

He refused to cede land without putting up a fight for what he thought was best for the Ojibwe people.

[Hole in the Day the Younger]

Though it may cost me my liberty, it is my duty and I will continue to speak and act also Till the wrongs of my people shall be righted.

[Ojibwe Storyteller/Expert]

And he was not afraid of the personal consequences.

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

Certainly it is true that Hole in the DEI had very strong and powerful friends and very strong and powerful enemies. People tended to either love him or hate him.

[Narrator]

The US Government, for its part, was more than happy to have just one single Ojibwe leader to negotiate with.

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

Hole in the Day plays a heavy hand, and he was very, very effective.

[Ojibwe Storyteller/Expert]

But the game was rigged.

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

He had just come from Washington, D.C. it was 1868.

[Narrator]

The previous year, Hole in the Day had negotiated another very controversial treaty that was trying to consolidate all Ojibwe people onto one single reservation.

[Ojibwe Storyteller/Expert]

It was a hard deal to swallow.

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

He had some really telling things that he told his people. He said, look, these are heartbreaking times for our people.

[Narrator]

At the time, westward migration was at a fever pitch. The government had just purchased Alaska. And the idea of Manifest Destiny, the God given right of white Americans to expand across the entire continent, was being realized. Holen the Day saw all this and adapted his strategies.

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

He told his people, I would love to say that there's a way to get all the white people to leave us alone and to leave our lands and let us live as we always have, but I don't think there's a way to go back in time, but there is a way forward.

[Ojibwe Storyteller/Expert]

The way Hole in the Day saw it, if the US Government was hell bent on putting his people onto a single reservation, then it needed to build the infrastructure that would set them up for success. And so he said, I want them

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

to build a house for every single one of you. I want them to build a grist mill and a sawmill so that we can adopt these modern enterprises and have

[Narrator]

good homes and to make sure they actually got these things. Hole in the Day had a plan. They would all stay put until the reservation was built.

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

Don't go anywhere. If you go, we will lose our leverage to get those things which are promised to us in this treaty.

[Narrator]

But times were really tough, and some people left in search of a better life. It also became clear that the Americans were not living up to their side of the bargain.

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

And Holland said, well, if they're not gonna work with me, we might have to do this a different way. And he said, I'm gonna go back to Washington, D.C. he set out on

[Ojibwe Storyteller/Expert]

a late June day in 1868. But on his way, he was accosted

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

by assassins, pulled off carriage, stabbed multiple times, shot and killed.

[Ojibwe Storyteller/Expert]

The impact of this death was immediate.

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

It was devastating for many of his people. And it was devastating. For generations,

[Ojibwe Storyteller/Expert]

Hole in the Day's death created a power vacuum that resulted in the loss of more and more Ojibwe land.

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

You had lots of white settlement that immediately flowed after his death. And so, you know, it was devastating for his friends, and it was devastating for his enemies.

[Ojibwe Storyteller/Expert]

In the long run, the vision Holen the day had for his people would never be. Instead, his death opened up the floodgates and left the nation vulnerable to the violent tides of the time, from the building of dams that flooded Ojibwe homes,

[Narrator]

to the growth of the timber industry,

[Ojibwe Storyteller/Expert]

all the way to the process of allotment.

[Narrator]

Allotment was a federal policy that divided reservation land into privately owned parcels. These parcels were then allotted to tribal members before most land had been owned in common. What this really means is tribes collectively owned all their land. Allotment was all about introducing private ownership, which was already becoming a cornerstone of the American dream. And it dovetailed with another process.

[Brenda Child]

This is the big era of cultural assimilation. So tremendous pressure put on Indian people to assimilate.

[Narrator]

This is Brenda Child. She's an Ojibwe historian and professor at the University of Minnesota. Allotment was one step in forcing this assimilation process.

[Brenda Child]

And in the United States, there was kind of consensus that Indian people needed to change.

[Ojibwe Storyteller/Expert]

Kill the Indian, save the man would soon be a common refrain. The idea was to get rid of all Native culture at any cost.

[Brenda Child]

There were people around the United States and in Washington and in kind of reform circles who believed at that time that Indian people were people of the past.

[Historian/Commentator]

Right.

[Brenda Child]

That they weren't really going to kind of continue into the future as tribal people. So if Indian people can't survive as tribal people, maybe they can just survive and so they can become citizens of the United States. Eventually. They can speak English, they can become Christians, they can Americanize, and then they can move into the mainstream of American society.

[Narrator]

An allotment was seen as a way to accelerate that process of Americanization.

[Ojibwe Historian/Expert]

They've got as far as they can go because they own their land in common. There is no enterprise to make your home any better than that of your neighbors.

[Brenda Child]

It's funny, because a policy like the allotment act of 1887, when you look at it and you read it, it's very technical, and in some ways it sounds like it's going to protect Indians. It was seen as so progressive, and the most progressive of Indian reformers favored the allotment of reservations.

[Narrator]

The idea was that Native families would own their own land. They could farm it and build generational wealth just like white Americans. They too, could pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

[Ojibwe Storyteller/Expert]

But from the beginning, the system was flawed.

[Brenda Child]

You know, sometimes there's a word that people don't like to use called conspiracy. Politicians and timber companies and banks in Minnesota conspired with one another to dispossess Indians of their land.

[Narrator]

Individual families were left to the mercy of businessmen who did whatever it took to snatch up land parcel by parcel. Not all Native nations and tribes participated in allotment the same way. Even among the Ojibwe people, the experience was different. But for many Native people, the process of allotment and US Westward expansion left them estranged from their own land. By the end of the allotment era, tribes had lost control of over 90 million acres of land.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

That's it for this week's episode of America in Pursuit. If you want to hear more about the lasting impact allotment had on different Ojibwe bands, make sure to check out the full length episode called A Tale of Two Tribal Nations. And join us next week where we continue the story of US Expansion beyond the continental US it's the Teddy Roosevelt era. It's the era of machismo, of doing things.

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Women were excluded, people of color excluded.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

But men like Minor Keith, the world belonged to them and it was theirs for the taking. That's next week. Don't miss it. This episode was produced by Kiana Morata and edited by Christina Kim, with help from the Thuline production team. Music as always by me, Ramtin Arablouei and my band, Drop Electric. Special thanks to Julie Kane Irinaguchi, Beth Donovan, Casey minor and Lindsay McKenna. We're your hosts, Ramtin Arablouei and Rund Abdelfatah.

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