The Alex Russell Interview with Throwing Fits

Summary

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Throwing Fits – The Alex Russell Interview

Date: October 6, 2025
Guest: Alex Russell (Writer/Director of Lurker, Writer on The Bear, Beef and more)
Hosts: Lawrence & James

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Episode Overview

In this lively and irreverent episode, the Throwing Fits dirtbags reunite with longtime friend Alex Russell, currently in the spotlight for his feature directorial debut Lurker. The conversation dives into his journey from digital-content years and early music journalism to making sneaky, critically acclaimed films, all while bantering about LA-Hollywood clout games, NYC media survival, friendships, authenticity, and, of course, fit checks. It’s a hilarious and sincere meditation on ambition, creative integrity, hustling in the zeitgeist, and what it means to want proximity to the glow.

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Table of Contents

1. Meet Alex & Award Talk
2. Directing Fits and Uniforms
3. Early Days: Complex Journalism Hazing and Going Viral
4. On Constraints in Filmmaking and the Making of Lurker
5. Industry Reflections: Hollywood, Clout, and Festival Circuits
6. Lurker as a Critique of Clout Culture
7. Directing Style & Set Vibes
8. Casting, Collaboration, and the Tallest Crew Ever
9. Media Consumption, Letterboxd, and Criticism
10. Hollywood vs. NYC Hustle
11. Future Projects, Inspirations & The Half-Asian Rushmore
12. Fashion, Watches, Cars, and Splurges
13. Memorable Quotes

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Meet Alex & Award Talk

• Fit Check and Trophy Placement

  • Alex jokes about hiding his Emmy and Golden Globe in a “sort of under-corner area.” He’s low-key but concedes, “You’ll see it, but you’ll also know... I wasn’t trying to show” (00:43).
  • Hosts roast him for not having a Grammy, riffing on his musical supervision work and Complex-era antics (01:15).

• Fit Details

  • Hanes tee, black eBay jeans “Cam Hicks bought... in 2021,” and all-black New Balance sneakers—ultimate laidoff-movie-editor steeze.
  • “I probably owe [Cam] like thousands of dollars.” (03:29)

• Director’s Uniform

  • On evolving from techwear (Valence) to “softer” Orslow & Margaret Howell fits: “I was big into that [techwear]... then became a thing...but I wanted to seem softer.” (05:48)
  • Aiming for a “director’s uniform” that conveys “serious” but not “too serious,” laughs about Greta Gerwig’s onesie and utility suits (06:32).

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Early Days: Complex Journalism Hazing and Going Viral

• All-Day Kanye Closet Article (Complex Era)

  • Alex describes “locking himself in a closet listening to Kanye on repeat” for 24 hours. "I was really just hoping other people in the office would notice me," he admits, half-mocking his own clout chase (11:09).
  • “It was also, like, content Jackass...At Complex we're locking interns in the closet and torturing them.” (12:15)

• Looking Back on Stunts

  • “I don’t regret anything. Everything is cringe looking back, but I don’t regret anything.” (12:48)
  • Opens the piece with Clockwork Orange reference—Ludovico technique—proving the early, film-obsessed brain.

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On Constraints in Filmmaking and the Making of Lurker

• Resourcefulness Is Everything

  • On indie vs. blockbuster scale: “I’ve really benefited from having constraints in general and...smaller boundaries...You have to figure out the exact kind of story you can tell.” (16:03)
  • “If you have to figure out...what’s the simplest way to tell this moment of the story...that would be my kryptonite, like, overthinking.” (16:56)

• Making Lurker

  • VHS camcorder solutions, real-party scenes, on-location tricks: “Because of the lack of resources, I think ended up being a more clever solution...we made all our days and actually shot the London sequence.” (17:19, 18:03)
  • Budget: "I can’t say. It was that small." Admits it was in the millions, after prodding (29:37).

• On Going Over/Under Budget?

  • “Did you go over budget?”
    “No.”
    “Did you go under budget?”
    “...That’d be so funny if it went to me.” (17:55)

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Industry Reflections: Hollywood, Clout, and Festival Circuits

• On the Festival Hustle

  • “You go raw to Sundance, and hopefully you leave...you could leave with less than you brought...or you could leave, like, people hated your movie.” (34:01)
  • Describes watching Entourage’s Sundance episode dozens of times in prep: “I watched it probably 35 times leading up to the festival.” (31:11)

• Deals, Politics, and Selling the Film

  • “Going and selling the movie...is one of the most fun parts...You’re getting calls, meeting other directors. I have friends from Sundance still.” (34:32)

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Lurker as a Critique of Clout Culture

• Personal Experience & Access Paranoia

  • “One of the reasons critics like this movie is they can relate to the boundaries of access...If you’re a music journalist—it’s almost famous. Will these people be friends with me after this?” (38:22, 38:39)

• Hollywood Parallels

  • “In Hollywood, it’s the best liars.” (40:39)
  • On the necessity of clout in art: “You can’t have entertainment without clout chasing.” (48:51)

• On NYC vs. LA’s Games

  • “In NY, there seem like there’s artists who don’t care about being famous...But maybe they just want you to think that.” (49:05, 49:10)

• Does LA Twists You?

  • “I do...becoming complacent in that environment is my fear, so I really want to be somewhere else.” (49:39)
  • On competitive friendships: “I think the thing I want the most is to avoid the next shiny opportunity and do the thing...” (50:58)

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Directing Style & Set Vibes

• How Alex Runs Set
  • “It’s very important to me to at least appear to be having a good time...that kind of energy is infectious.” (23:04)
  • “Everyone is looking to me to decide how to feel about what’s going on." (23:16)
  • Fears: “My worst fear was I’d seem sort of unsure and...pathetic.” (24:09)
    But writing the script himself anchored his vision.

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Casting, Collaboration, and the Tallest Crew Ever

• Casting, Improvisation, & On-Set Chemistry
  • Zach Fox had to “sort of” audition, mainly to check if he aged out of the role.
    • “The only thing I was concerned about was if he was going to age out...” (28:34)
  • 20% of what’s in the film wasn’t in the script: “We had a lot of fun doing alts...we would both be thinking of stuff to try. It was very off the cuff.” (27:32, 28:03)
  • Chemistry: “It was instant and I was very lucky with that.” (47:18)
  • Archie (“is he hotter than you?”): “He’s very attractive to me...he’s 6’5”, Cam is 6’5”, Kenny is 6’7”—the tallest movie of all time?” (47:40)

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Media Consumption, Letterboxd, and Criticism

• Watching Movies on Planes (and Writing There)

  • Alex does most of his writing on airplanes: “It’s my happy place...I typically don’t get WiFi.” (19:15)
  • On catching up with classics vs. slop: “I love watching movies on planes. People say it's easier to cry on planes.” (21:13)

• Letterboxd Feedback Spiral

  • “You see 100 glowing reviews and then one that’s like ‘this guy should fucking kill himself’ and you’re like, I need to kill myself or change this person’s mind.” (61:07)
  • “Unfortunately, I've seen a lot of [reviews], and it's like a pathological problem I'm having.” (61:55)
  • “The way I think about it: I wanted to be in the arena.” (62:49)
  • “Star counts...half of the people in the crowd are actively rooting for you to lose.” (63:08)
  • “On my worst days...I will become preoccupied with some stupid thing someone says.” (62:13)
  • On interpretation: “There are just going to be different tiers of what people get out of it...I hope it’s within the realm the movie’s going for.” (64:22, 64:36)

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Hollywood vs. NYC Hustle

• Which is harder—getting a movie greenlit or surviving as a NYC music journalist?

  • “Now or 12 years ago, the answer’s the same...It’s the second one. Making a living in NYC as a music journalist is harder.” (36:25)

• Journo/Media Pivot

  • “You’re kind of the last guy on the Titanic, and you’re like, am I gonna just sink with this or do I need to pivot?” (55:57)
  • “Even Hollywood, in a way, feels like that. As soon as I’ve gotten into it, everyone’s like, ‘it’s over.’” (55:57)
  • “Podcasts are just beginning,” jokes the hosts. (57:57)

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Future Projects, Inspirations & The Half-Asian Rushmore

• On What’s Next

  • “The next one’s about a man and a woman. A love story, go hetero. It’s time for me to evolve and mature as a writer.” (76:32)
  • Would love to work with Steven Yeun—“my favorite actor," praises his style and talent. (77:58)

• Dream IP Projects

  • “I would want to do the Robin movie...Batman’s number one fan, the number two guy.” (52:04)
  • Pitches “Lord of the Golem...on a hyper low budget: no CGI, one costume.” (52:32)

• The Half-Asian Rushmore

  • Spirited (and comic) quest for who belongs—Keanu Reeves, Maya Erskine, James Harris, Vanessa Hudgens, Olivia Rodrigo, H.E.R., etc.
  • “We got work to do. That’s why you gotta platform half-Asian actors, bro.” (106:24)

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Fashion, Watches, Cars, and Splurges

• Fit Preferences:

  • From Valence/techwear in NYC to “softer natural fibers” like Orslow, Margaret Howell in LA. (05:48)
  • Underwear talk: Calvin Klein today, but Gore-Tex panties are floated. (08:43)

• New Splurges

  • “Dumbest purchase?”
    “It would probably be the watch—a vintage Rolex Datejust 2000, to celebrate getting into Sundance.” (107:16-108:03)

• Car Talk

  • Drives a Tesla (“before he went crazy”). Fantasizes about Urus, Cybertruck, vintage Bronco, but admits, “Cybertruck[s] are like the ultimate douchebag mobile right now in LA.” (111:12)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

On Set & Success

“Whether or not I know what I’m doing, everyone’s looking to me to decide how to feel about what’s going on.”
— Alex Russell (23:16)

“Directing movies is easy.”
— Host 1 (26:22)

On Festival Circuits

“You go raw to Sundance, and hopefully you leave... you could leave with less than you brought.” — Alex Russell (34:01)

On Criticism & Letterboxd

“You see 100 glowing reviews and then one that’s like ‘this guy should f***ing kill himself’ and you’re like, I need to kill myself or change this person’s mind.” — Alex Russell (61:07)

“I wanted to be in the arena...if you play sports, half the people in the crowd are actively rooting for you to lose.”
— Alex Russell (63:08)

On Clout & Industry

“It’s the best liars [in Hollywood].” — Alex Russell (40:39)

“Entertainment—you can’t have entertainment without clout chasing.” — Alex Russell (48:51)

On Contrasts Between NYC & LA

“In NY, there seem like there’s artists who don’t care about being famous...But maybe they just want you to think that.”
— Alex Russell (49:05)

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Fun Segments & Timestamps

• 00:43 — Emmy and Globe concealment, clout jokes
• 02:30 — The real fit check, Cam Hicks eBay stories
• 10:40 — Launch into Lurker & legacy: movie vs. Kanye closet
• 16:03 — The creativity of constraints in filmmaking
• 23:04 — Directing energy on set
• 28:34 — Zach Fox, casting, improvisation on set
• 34:01 — Festival horror/gamble and Entourage as prep
• 38:22 — “Boundaries of access” and relatability for critics
• 47:40 — The “tallest movie ever” roster
• 61:07 — The Letterboxd/feedback spiral
• 70:30 — Theatrical vs. streaming: “I can sneak into an AMC and see real people watching it.”
• 76:32 — “Next is about a man and a woman. A love story, go hetero.”
• 107:16 — Splurge: “A vintage Rolex Datejust.”
• 113:05 — Constructive criticism about the pod: “Add some kind of hot wing element. Make it crazier…”

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Notable Topics Skewered or Celebrated

• The “director’s uniform” as image and time-saver
• Complex/NYC digital media in the 2010s: self-hazing, “content Jackass”
• Filmmaking with constraints as a “superpower”—and big-budget Marvel temptations
• “Cloud-chasing as the fuel for all entertainment”
• Friendship, jealousy, and competition in LA creative circles
• The sick thrill of seeing a stranger laugh at your film, in a theater, with real snacks
• The addictive nature of feedback, the letterboxd doom scroll, and the emotional rollercoaster it brings to creators
• Splurge culture: buying watches with TV money but for movie milestones

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Final Plugs

• Lurker—in theaters and streaming now. “Honestly, if you listen to this podcast, you will like the movie.” (118:30)
• Follow Alex:
  • Jokes about not caring about the Hollywood game but loving the ride
  • Throws love to The Bear, Beef S2, Kenny Beats, etc.

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Overall Tone

Playfully caustic, self-aware, fiercely loyal to their journo roots, Throwing Fits’ irreverent hosts coax out the real Alex Russell—anxious, ambitious, funny as hell, and always doing it for the vibe. Even as Hollywood glitters, “nothing is serious, but everything is.” If you love inside-baseball about the business, the limits of taste, the specter of failure, and why clout is simply the human fuel of LA, this episode is your Canon event.

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For First-Time Listeners

This episode is packed with inside jokes, Hollywood lore, and film-biz cringe/camaraderie. But if you want to understand the new wave of “zeitgeist navigators” in pop culture—where ambition, taste, and cloud-chasing all blend—there’s no better, funnier, or more honest glimpse behind the curtain.

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End of summary.

Transcript

[Host 1]

Our guest this week is certified fresh and a certified lurker. He just made his feature length directorial debut with a flick that asks what if Tom Ripley wanted a followback and has critics raving. It's a fucking vibe, bro. As chatter on the film heats up our old palace. Stepping off the red carpet and breaking out the writers rooms of both the Bear and Beef to record a throwing. Fitz Zoovie. We've known this guy since we were all in the digital content trenches, so this convo is a long time coming. As we talk, real life twisted cloud chasers getting initiated into the Hollywood Illuminati and the best movie theater snacks. Writer and director of Lurker in theaters now, Alex Russell. Alex, how are you?

[Alex Russell]

I'm doing great. Thank you for having me.

[Host 2]

What's up, buddy? Congrats on the Emmy. Where is it?

[Alex Russell]

It's, it's in a cor. It's next to the TV console in like a sort of a. Under. Under corner area where it's not totally on display, but you would see.

[Host 1]

Sounds very inconspicuous.

[Alex Russell]

Well, it's, it's kind of, it's kind of like you will see it, but then you will also know it's not that, that I wasn't trying to show.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Alex Russell]

It's just an, I mean, but I did want. Yeah. And it's next to the Globe and other stuff.

[Host 2]

You got a Golden Globe too. So you're almost. You got status. You're on your way.

[Alex Russell]

No, the G is Grammy, bro. Grammy?

[Host 2]

Oh.

[Host 1]

How do you not have a Grammy? They give them shits out to everybody.

[Alex Russell]

Well, well, yeah.

[Host 1]

I mean, you don't have a Grammy for setting Taylor Swift to the car chase scene in Forks. They're not chase.

[Alex Russell]

But you know, they don't give that up for that.

[Host 1]

For curating the vibe.

[Alex Russell]

But musical supervision, you could get one for like a music video, you know, that would be you.

[Host 1]

And you've done music videos.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, they should give me a Grammy for Zach's being kicked in video.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

Honestly, you're not wrong.

[Host 2]

The only retroactive Grammy that was a miscarriage of justice. The fact that you actually don't have.

[Host 1]

One tougher Tony or Grammy or Oscar.

[Alex Russell]

Damn.

[Host 2]

Which one do you want the most?

[Host 1]

Tony.

[Host 2]

Tony for sure.

[Alex Russell]

I, I, I think, I think I don't care. I think I don't care.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Host 1]

Really, that answer is equivalent of putting the Emmy just tucked away enough where people as soon as they walk in.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

At least changed, bro.

[Alex Russell]

Exactly.

[Host 2]

Alex, the first thing you want to do is a little fit Check. You already bemoaned the fact that you clearly are just not paying attention to your schedule because you're like, I would have worn a better fit if I had actually used my brain. But here we are.

[Alex Russell]

Yes, but this is true. Okay. I've got. I've got on a Hanes T shirt.

[Host 1]

Nice. I love hatings on this pod.

[Alex Russell]

I've got on. These are pants that Cam Hicks bought on ebay for me in 2021.

[Host 2]

As a gift.

[Alex Russell]

No, as we were shooting a proof of concept for Lurker, the movie.

[Host 1]

Oh, shit.

[Alex Russell]

Back in 2021, and we needed wardrobe for Teo, so Cam bought a bunch of stuff on. On ebay and just left it at my house. And it's like, at the time, the pants were too big for me.

[Host 1]

And now then you spend it 18 hours a day in the editing bay just eating slop.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Now they fit another snug as a bug.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Who pays for that? Is that the. Is that on movie? But the ebay.

[Alex Russell]

No, that.

[Host 2]

Cops.

[Alex Russell]

That was like. That was like. We were just trying to figure something out. Like, I'm sure he spent, like, a hundred dollars total.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

Not Cam.

[Alex Russell]

I should ask him.

[Host 1]

That's. That's not possible for Cam Hicks to spend a hundred dollars.

[Alex Russell]

No, you're actually right.

[Host 2]

I should.

[Alex Russell]

I probably owe him, like, thousands of dollars.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

One of the fucking Bottega, like.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

What's the capital?

[Alex Russell]

I actually. I don't know.

[Host 2]

They're just black jeans, kind of.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. I don't think they're a brand.

[Host 1]

Did Cam do any wardrobe work on Lurker?

[Alex Russell]

I think he consulted a little bit. He. I'm sure he was also double dip. Had input on, like, what his character would wear, which was very much. I feel like that was the character that was the most. Just like, you'll just be playing yourself.

[Host 2]

You're not even acting at that.

[Host 1]

But he was like, give me the fattest diamond earring possible. And, yes, I will be keeping you as a little momento.

[Alex Russell]

I think. I think there was, like, Archie pulled some favors with Loewe and got, like, a bunch of vintage or archival Loewe in the movie.

[Host 2]

Right. Because it's technically a period. Right. 2018. So it had to. The seasons had to match up.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. And I hope that they do, but I haven't. There's some. There's some mistakes. And I remember I got really mad because there was a laptop in a scene that was like, the newer Mac, the sort of boxier MacBook Pros, and I was like, People are just gonna take people out of the movie. Yeah.

[Host 2]

No one caught it. Don't worry about it.

[Alex Russell]

I catch it every time.

[Host 2]

And I'm like, well, you're your harshest.

[Alex Russell]

Critic, dude, we get it. Nope, they're harsher.

[Host 2]

I guess we'll get into it.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

What about the kicks?

[Alex Russell]

These are some new balances. Do you recognize these?

[Host 2]

Yeah. With the. No, I do not have those nurse style new Balances. They're all black. Or lunch lady, I guess.

[Alex Russell]

But I'll tell. I'll tell you what I would have worn to hypothetical things.

[Host 1]

Storyboard.

[Alex Russell]

The fit for what I. Okay. I typically wear a lot of Margaret Howell.

[Host 2]

Nice.

[Alex Russell]

And a lot of orally.

[Host 1]

Movie check. Hit me.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Hollywood did change it, actually.

[Alex Russell]

No, it hasn't hit yet. No.

[Host 1]

The FX checks be hidden.

[Alex Russell]

Yes.

[Host 1]

And Netflix.

[Alex Russell]

And Netflix, yes. Um, yeah. But I feel like I've always just like spent the money I did have on like some I couldn't afford. Yeah. I had to put all my valence away. I feel like I was like, I was big into that.

[Host 1]

Like, when you move to la, you're like, I no longer need performance.

[Host 2]

No.

[Alex Russell]

I was, I was the. I was the weird one person in LA wearing that and then became a thing. But I wouldn't say that's why I stopped wearing it. I think I just got. I started to feel too, like, stiff and I wanted to go tex after all. Yeah. I wanted to wear like natural fibers. I wanted to seem softer to people or something orally.

[Host 1]

We'll do that for you.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. So have it. Yeah. Having like really nice sweaters and soft pants that don't cons, you know.

[Host 1]

Do you keep the all black monotone going? Especially now that you're a director.

[Host 2]

Yeah. You kind of have a uniform. If we're being real.

[Alex Russell]

I actually, I want to figure. I was just watching something the other day about like Greta Gerwig's uniform or something that it's like a, A unit. It's like a, like, like an actual onesie or something.

[Host 2]

All right. Okay.

[Alex Russell]

And I wanted to, you know, obviously.

[Host 1]

Like an old fashioned bathing suit for men.

[Host 2]

Does it have a butt flap?

[Alex Russell]

I. I need to. I think it's like a. I need to look into it. But obviously it's like the, the idea is that directors, you have to make so many decisions every day that to just eliminate one of them.

[Host 1]

Oh, okay. Steve Jobs.

[Host 2]

Yeah. I mean, directors are known for kind of having like, looks.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Oh, is there an Instagram account about that?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

About their fits.

[Alex Russell]

Yes, there is. You Guys aren't running that.

[Host 1]

No, he is.

[Host 2]

No, I'm not ready. That's a real guy shout out directors fit. It's not me. I'm a fan, a follower.

[Alex Russell]

What do you think it should be?

[Host 2]

Well, I don't want your.

[Alex Russell]

I don't. I don't want suit because that's. I. I want to.

[Host 2]

Well, it needs to be utility.

[Host 1]

I think if you. If you want to choose, just maybe it's not like the same fit over and over and over, but like just going full orally simple, easy. It all works together. You can go head to toe and it's not going to look super conspicuous or boring.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

But it will emanate kind of like not super cool guy, but like, you know, a little softness, like you were saying. A little bit comfort. For sure. Versatility from the. From the set to the deck. From the set to the deck.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. I'm always trying to dial like how serious and how clownish I'm being perceived.

[Host 2]

Well, this is.

[Alex Russell]

That's hard.

[Host 2]

This murdered outlook is, I think is perceived as very serious.

[Alex Russell]

I don't know, maybe too much just.

[Host 1]

Like Jonah hill on his mid-90s bro when he started going all black. The row. He's like, I'm a director now. 2018.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, let me. Yeah, let me get like 10 identical row.

[Host 2]

Yes, exactly. Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

And just go like that would be.

[Host 2]

A move for sure. You need some utilitarian aspects too for like, you know, when you're.

[Host 1]

So it would have been orally on any other day, but today probably.

[Alex Russell]

Margaret Howell.

[Host 1]

And Margaret, how. What are the. What are the panties?

[Host 2]

Your underwear. What are you wearing today?

[Alex Russell]

Oh, Calvin Klein.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. Nice. What do you. What do you guys wear?

[Host 1]

Hanes supreme means boxers.

[Host 2]

Boxer briefs. Real Tree supreme is.

[Alex Russell]

Does anyone wear regular boxers?

[Host 2]

I do.

[Host 1]

I have a list.

[Alex Russell]

Oh, you said boxers.

[Host 2]

Yeah. I need directors on there.

[Host 1]

Quite esteemed Hollywood. Quite an esteemed.

[Host 2]

There's some fictional characters on the list as well.

[Host 1]

Reynolds, Wilcock.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Tony Soprano.

[Host 2]

Famous boxers.

[Alex Russell]

Oh yeah, we have. You always won.

[Host 2]

Yeah, it's his thing.

[Alex Russell]

But now it's just like every. Everyone is a kid.

[Host 2]

Yeah. War box before your balls drop.

[Host 1]

You know, Ace Roth scene in casino.

[Alex Russell]

Uhhuh.

[Host 2]

Another fictional character.

[Host 1]

Old Dirty Bastard. A real fictional character.

[Alex Russell]

So when you create this list, you are identifying some image of these guys not wearing.

[Host 1]

Yeah, well, Tony Span is like, hey, like in his boxers. Tony Span Rens Woodcock ODB Yum. From our legacy. Nick Wooster Meals by K. Kujin Aaron Lavine Mel Ottenberg Anthony Changoli the Dare Blake, Abby, Jonah Weiner, Ace Rothini, Casino Jesse Hudnut, John Teeds, Ben Solomon, W. David Marks, Trevor Gorgi. That's a pretty esteemed.

[Host 2]

Anyone on the pod that wears boxers and you know, lets us know in the fit check. James throws them on the list.

[Alex Russell]

I mean, that is a really compelling list of.

[Host 2]

It really is. Honestly, let the.

[Host 1]

It's. Let your nuts go free range, bro. Why you swat as. As someone that gave up all your valence because you wanted like softer natural fibers. Why are you, you know, swallowing them?

[Host 2]

Argue with what you should get Gore Tex panties, dude. That's what you really should do. That'd be a great flex in the meeting.

[Alex Russell]

That must exist. Yeah, I'm sure. Or like ballistic NY on.

[Host 1]

Well, they have. They have the denim thong, the jong.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

Just.

[Host 2]

Just things to consider as you kind of recalculate your look now that you.

[Host 1]

Well, let's get into your whole life, Alex, the meat and potatoes of the only podcast you just made your feature length directorial debut with the film Lurker in theaters.

[Alex Russell]

Now.

[Host 1]

Do you think your legacy. You think you'll be remembered more for writing and directing this critical darling movie or for locking yourself in a closet and listening to Kanye west all day on repeat for 24 hours and writing about it for Complex?

[Alex Russell]

I thought there was no gotchas.

[Host 1]

There's got to be. There's got this. The exception to the rule.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, I think among a very niche few that are in this room currently would be the second thing. Yeah, hopefully it's a mystery third thing that hasn't happened yet.

[Host 2]

Oh, that's. I like that Glass half full. Do you. Can you listen to that song all day by Kanye west to this day?

[Alex Russell]

Actually, yes. It's funny that you mentioned that because I probably heard it like a month ago randomly and that there's like a bunch of different versions of it, but it's like, kind of sick.

[Host 1]

Did you. Does it like trigger ptsd?

[Alex Russell]

No, I think I cheated that whole thing. Like, I didn't really do it that much.

[Host 1]

No, complex journalism is.

[Host 2]

I was gonna say, dude, where's the integrity in journalism anymore? Take away their webby.

[Alex Russell]

Or maybe I just got to a delusional psychosis. I was really just hoping other people in the office would notice me.

[Host 2]

That's why you're in it.

[Host 1]

As you were locked away, as you're locked up in a closet. How could we notice you if you're in a. You know, hidden in a closet.

[Alex Russell]

I should have played off like a JBL and made everyone like come in and check on me or whatever.

[Host 1]

Did you last 24 hours? You had a fifth Hennessy.

[Host 2]

You like, have food.

[Alex Russell]

Wow, you have such a good memory.

[Host 1]

This was really impressed upon me because I was like, this is sick.

[Alex Russell]

It sounds like maybe the other wian in the office will know.

[Host 1]

That's true. But also it was like. It was also like content. Jackass. Yeah, really trying to like advice. They were sending hipsters to war zones. A complex were blocking interns in the closet and torturing them.

[Host 2]

You were hazed.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, that self hazed.

[Host 2]

Well, yeah.

[Alex Russell]

You did pitch my idea.

[Host 2]

You pitched a Guantanamo style story for sure.

[Alex Russell]

Oh, man, life was so much.

[Host 1]

Are you.

[Host 2]

Were you proud of that work?

[Alex Russell]

I think obviously everything is cringe looking back, but I don't.

[Host 1]

I don't think this is cringe.

[Alex Russell]

I don't regret any. Anything.

[Host 2]

Anything. That's. That's cool.

[Alex Russell]

I.

[Host 2]

With that.

[Host 1]

Oh, wow. You open it with a cinematic reference to Stanley Kubrick's A Clockwork Orange where. What's his name?

[Alex Russell]

Ax.

[Host 1]

Alex has the Ludovico technique.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[Host 1]

His name's Alex and Cl.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. Alexander, King of the Droogs.

[Host 2]

Yeah. That's Beethoven though, right there. They. They make it so that he has a verse reaction to his. To the Ludwig Vaughn, as he would.

[Host 1]

Say in hour four, you say, I immediately regret this.

[Host 2]

So is this a slideshow? This is. Oh, of course it is. It's just a list.

[Alex Russell]

I feel like a lot of those articles and stuff don't work anymore. You can't click well.

[Host 1]

They're all broken and. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Wait. It got you noticed though. It succeeded.

[Alex Russell]

I don't think. I don't think. I don't think anyone gave a. Yeah, it's not fixable, but ultimately, like, ultimately, like, I would not be here. You like, you know what I mean? Like, if I wasn't doing stuff like that.

[Host 1]

Oh, we're gonna.

[Alex Russell]

We're gonna.

[Host 1]

We're gonna criticize the boy. That took a creative risk.

[Host 2]

Come on now.

[Alex Russell]

Not on this podcast.

[Host 2]

Right, right, right.

[Host 1]

Well, you're joining us from la. What movies did you watch on your flight over to NY City?

[Alex Russell]

I watched Thunderbolts.

[Host 2]

Okay. Is the MCU back? That's what people were saying.

[Alex Russell]

I don't know. Because I never really watched any of those movies.

[Host 1]

Because it's not cinema.

[Alex Russell]

No, I mean, I would be happy to. It's just that I feel like no one's been like, you have to watch this.

[Host 1]

What about. What about Black Panther, bro?

[Alex Russell]

Black Panther. I saw. I like.

[Host 1]

Okay, okay, good in theaters.

[Host 2]

Get that on the record, for sure.

[Host 1]

In theaters.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Okay, good.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, yeah. And the last one I saw before that was probably Iron man or something like that.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

But so thunderbolts face kill a biopic.

[Alex Russell]

Tony stock Thunder. Thunderbolts. I was really looking at just, like, the execution of it because Jake, the director I work with.

[Host 2]

My bad, my bad, my bad.

[Alex Russell]

And, you know, there's a. There's a lot of stuff in there that was really precisely done. Why are you laughing?

[Host 1]

I'm not laughing.

[Host 2]

I'm laughing.

[Alex Russell]

And I mean, that's a certain. It's hard for me to evaluate superhero movies because I haven't seen them before. But, like, I really don't know. I'm curious, like, where that all goes now.

[Host 1]

I mean, it's a certain skill set to run a billion dollar, like, set. Right. And to, like, actually make a movie that's you're proud of our, you know, audiences with. When it's all just, like, green screen and.

[Host 2]

Yep.

[Host 1]

You're kind of playing within a predefined sandbox.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

So I bet it's fun to, like, see your. Your boy, like, all right, how do you actually do this? How do you pull it off?

[Host 2]

Get that big bag, could you? So. Well, the budget of that is probably, what, like, somewhere around 150, 200 million?

[Alex Russell]

I think so.

[Host 2]

So someone gives you that kind of bag, could you even right now as like a, you know, a guy who's just getting started and making the pictures. Can you even fathom having a budget that big? Do you even want to tell stories that would require. Require, excuse me, $200 million?

[Alex Russell]

Not at this moment. And I think I've really benefited from having constraints in general and having a sort of smaller boundary to have to figure out. I don't know what I would. And you often see that, too with like, some, like, indie darling director who made a movie for a million dollars, is now making one for a hundred. And it often doesn't work out super well. And I think it's because you. You have too much freedom and not enough at the same time where it's like, if you have to figure out the exact kind of story you can tell or the exact. You can. You can only have one setup. You have three choices, right, between how you're going to shoot this scene or you have one hour to get it done. It forces you to problem solve and figure out what's the simplest way to tell this moment of the story, you know, and if you could just spend more time, take more days like, that's. To me, that's. That would be my kryptonite. Kryptonite. Like, overthinking.

[Host 2]

So with Lurker, that came into play, right, where you're like, this is. This is the one way to get it. I remember. I think you talked to someone about this, but like the party scene.

[Alex Russell]

Yes.

[Host 2]

You're like, we. We don't have the time to get all these set up, so we're just.

[Host 1]

Going to so much VHS tape.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, right. No, there was. I mean, there was a lot of things that because of the lack of resources, I think ended up being a more clever solution. Like going to LAX with the camcorder is like. It makes sense because it's from Matthew's documentary perspective. Right. And we don't have to spend a bunch of money.

[Host 1]

No.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. I shouldn't keep broadcasting this in London too, right?

[Host 1]

No, that. That was.

[Host 2]

That.

[Host 1]

That was. That was all cgi. That was all cgi. Is that what I've seen?

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 1]

What was the. What was the budget for Lurker?

[Alex Russell]

I can't say it was that small.

[Host 2]

God damn it.

[Host 1]

Did you go over budget?

[Alex Russell]

No.

[Host 1]

Did you go under budget? You get to keep what you spend.

[Alex Russell]

You know, use it or lose it. That'd be so funny if it went to me.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

No, we. We. What was great.

[Host 1]

This motherfucker spent 200 grand on orally wardrobe.

[Alex Russell]

What a line people do.

[Host 1]

That's like seven items.

[Host 2]

There's.

[Alex Russell]

There is some guy, some, like, finesser guy who got in trouble for spending all the budget of his, like, Netflix movie.

[Host 1]

On what?

[Alex Russell]

On just, like, trips and sick scouting, just like casting like Lambos and stuff like that. It's like in the news right now, but, like, imagine me doing that on this movie. It'd just be like getting an extra coffee or something like that. Yeah. But no, we made all our days and actually shoot the London sequence. Weren't going to do because we wouldn't have been able to afford it, but because we made all our days, it was like within the contingency to. To go. It was like a nice little treat that we did VHS treat around this time last year.

[Host 1]

Sick. So when you're on an airplane, do you use that as a chance to catch up on, like, the classics that you haven't, you know, never got around to seeing? Or do you just watch, like, Comfort Slop?

[Alex Russell]

I sounds like the lighter. I know I. I did. I get most of my work done on airplanes.

[Host 1]

Really?

[Alex Russell]

Yes. It's my happy place when it comes to writing. Because you are. You are locked in. Literally. You can't move you. I typically don't get WI fi, so it's like five hours of complete like, no distractions.

[Host 2]

Cefi economy.

[Alex Russell]

Ugh, what makes you say that?

[Host 2]

No free WI fi if you're in business, dog.

[Host 1]

Not always.

[Alex Russell]

Regardless of what class I'm sitting in, which has changed over the past couple years.

[Host 1]

Nice.

[Host 2]

We love that for you.

[Alex Russell]

Well, I justify it by getting work done.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

It's like I could, I could rent an office or I could fly business to New York.

[Alex Russell]

Dude, I've thought about literally getting like buying a plane. No, no, like a discontinued like first class seat and putting it in my chair.

[Host 2]

Like chair.

[Host 1]

Like Major Fielder.

[Alex Russell]

Did he do that? He rehearsal?

[Host 1]

Did he watch rehearsals?

[Alex Russell]

No, I've been meaning to.

[Host 1]

You should watch on the next flight. Maybe download them shits.

[Host 2]

Might be too close to home since it's about plane crash.

[Host 1]

But he did and how to solve them.

[Host 2]

You could. But James saying is you could build a replica of that's.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, yeah, I just need, I just need the 1C.

[Host 1]

Well, what about in LA? Isn't that a thing where they have like the fake private jets that influencers go and take do photo shoots on? Like, why don't you just rent that out by the hour?

[Host 2]

Yeah, post up.

[Host 1]

It's like, no, I don't need any photos.

[Alex Russell]

I think it's like pretty expensive.

[Host 2]

It might be a budget.

[Host 1]

Tell me to put them in the flight or in the next movie.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, well, we, yeah, we shot a little bit on, on like one of those plane sets.

[Host 1]

I'm saying just work there.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

Again, no bad ideas in a brainstorm.

[Alex Russell]

No bad ideas.

[Host 2]

Trying to help you out. Okay, so you're not really consuming, you know, media and entertainment. You're working this trip is like, I.

[Host 1]

Don'T want to disrespect the filmmaker by watching it on a little six by four screen.

[Alex Russell]

No, I love watching style. I love watching movies on planes. There's some, there's something people say, like, it's easier to cry on planes or something.

[Host 1]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

It's a phenomenon, an emotional phenomenon.

[Alex Russell]

Or maybe that's just where I set it out and I'm like, it's easier to survive.

[Host 1]

What was the last movie you cried at Thunderbolts when it was over.

[Alex Russell]

One more. I don't, I don't really cry for movies. There are some songs that will get me like all day with 800. Listen, I was just playing in the.

[Host 2]

Coffee shop and you were like, damn, this Song always makes me think about my life.

[Alex Russell]

Turn, turn, turn. Yeah, that one might get me. I feel like the most recent one is this song by Casey Musgraves called Wonder Woman.

[Host 2]

Beautiful. Because you love superheroes.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

You love Gal Gadot. You love Israel.

[Alex Russell]

That is kind of a. Wow. That's a crazy connection.

[Host 1]

That's what I do, bro.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

I think Snow White failed because of her pro Israel stance.

[Alex Russell]

Is she Snow White?

[Host 1]

Yeah, I think so.

[Host 2]

Gadot is something.

[Host 1]

I think so.

[Alex Russell]

Why did I think it was, like, Selena Gomez or something? No, no, no.

[Host 2]

It was not Wonder Woman.

[Alex Russell]

I really.

[Host 2]

I thought Snow White failed because they cast the black woman.

[Host 1]

No, that's Little Mermaid. Oh, the Little Mermaid.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. I really. I really don't pay attention.

[Host 2]

You're not reading the trades, dude.

[Host 1]

Well, okay. You're so focused on creating your little pictures as a director, what vibe are you creating on set? Like, what's your style? Are you loose and goofy like pta? Are you a perfectionist like Kubrick? I did Google this earlier.

[Alex Russell]

I would say very goofy. Yeah. I would say. Thanks. It's very important for me to at least appear to be having a good time.

[Host 2]

Oh, nice.

[Alex Russell]

And I think that kind of energy is infectious. And the thing is, like, whether or not I know what I'm doing, everyone is looking to me to decide how to feel about what's going on.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

So.

[Host 2]

Because that's high.

[Alex Russell]

I'm the only one who, like, has the full, like, temp check of, like, if this is going sideways, the master plan. So. And I feel like when. When I felt like I was watching the monitor and it was, like, what I was hoping for better, I would just be, like, giddy. Like, I. Honestly, I was. I was really worried that I would show my worst self, which is what typically.

[Host 2]

What's Alex at his worst?

[Alex Russell]

I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I guess I could have been crying or I could have been. I could have.

[Host 1]

It's okay to cry.

[Alex Russell]

I didn't know what turned me into. Because I'd never been in that position. But, like, maybe. Maybe I'd get really angry or, like, I just didn't know what it would be like. Or I think worse, my worst fear was, like, that I would seem. That I would seem sort of unsure and, like, did you ever feel unsure?

[Host 1]

Did you ever feel unsure and pathetic?

[Alex Russell]

Yes, but. Yeah, but in. In a way where I still kind of had a North Star. And I think having written the thing was a huge advantage that I just knew what. I knew what Every scene was about. So I could explain it to a bunch of people who needed to know.

[Host 2]

Could someone else have directed this movie?

[Alex Russell]

That was the plan when I wrote it. Looking back, I think it was the right move. Not that I had an opportunity to give it to someone else. I think, like, I wanted someone like Hiro Marai to do it right. But I think, you know, there's such a specificity to sort of the smaller moments and like, you know, like. Like wardrobe stuff. Just like things that I could have an eye on where I'm Like, a movie like this has to feel authentic. And it might have just been a little broader.

[Host 2]

Huh.

[Alex Russell]

And maybe would have made more sense to people. I don't know.

[Host 1]

Was there a moment that you can point to in the film? Obviously you shot it out of order, but, like, what's. What scene or moment in the film clicked with you. Like, yo, like, I'm doing it.

[Alex Russell]

I got one.

[Host 2]

Got one.

[Alex Russell]

The first scene.

[Host 2]

Oh, really?

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Set shot first, too.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, it was. It was when the two leads meet, and it wasn't like, we got one. It was like a relief that, like, this isn't going to be, like, the corniest piece of shit failure disaster you've ever seen in your life. Which it could have been, given the subject matter and everything. But just seeing these two actors work the scene, it just felt like the tone of the movie. And I was like, if these. If these two faces can kind of be working in this fashion, then the whole movie will work. So it was like, that was the only time I got a little bit emotional, was like, oh, thank God.

[Host 1]

So from day one till final rap day, it was easy sailing.

[Alex Russell]

I would say it was, yes. Shockingly, I think it was. I was prepared for it to be a complete nightmare. So the fact that it wasn't was this was a pleasant surprise. And, like, there was.

[Host 1]

Directing movies is easy.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Who would have thunk?

[Alex Russell]

No, it's like, I've heard all these stories about first features just being, like, a huge disaster. And it could have, like, you know, like, the house in the movie burned down a few months after shot there. So in the fires.

[Host 2]

Oh, oh, wait.

[Alex Russell]

Okay. It's in Altadena. So, like, if that had happened week three of the shoot, I'd be telling a totally different story right now. So there's so many things that were not in my control that did go. Like, it would only rain on the weekends. It really did feel like charmed kismet.

[Host 2]

And everything's coming up Russell.

[Alex Russell]

And I think, you know, the Actors are good. And I think what people don't realize is, like, if your actors are correctly cast, then you waste a lot less time, like, trying to force a scene at tracks.

[Host 2]

I feel like, for sure.

[Host 1]

How much direction did Zack Fox need?

[Host 2]

Because we know Zach is the homie. Right.

[Alex Russell]

Just as. As much as anyone else.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Did you give him one piece of feedback? Like, more often than anything else. Keep being funny.

[Alex Russell]

No, no.

[Host 2]

Hit that dummy harder.

[Alex Russell]

We. We just. We had a lot of fun doing alts and, like, what? You know, we would have the lines and then, like, we would both be thinking of stuff to try. So it was very, like, off the cuff. Like, oh, let's try that.

[Host 2]

Just.

[Alex Russell]

Let's just like, alts. Like, how about what if the line was this? Or what if he was more like this? And we would just play around with it?

[Host 1]

And what if you showed your dick?

[Alex Russell]

Right.

[Host 2]

How many of the alts did, like. I don't know if you want to say this, but, like, are when what we're watching, like, how much of that is some of the, like, stuff that wasn't, like, in the actual screenplay? Like, those.

[Alex Russell]

Maybe 20.

[Host 1]

Oh, really?

[Alex Russell]

Nice. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Because he is very. I mean, he's hilarious. Obviously.

[Alex Russell]

I see a lot of people saying, like, oh, they let Zach be. Just play himself. And I'm like, you do not know this guy. He's not like this at all. Like, he's the nicest person ever. And he's being a bully, but it's just how naturalistic he is and how talented he is as, like, a, you know, an actor.

[Host 1]

Did you have him in mind when you wrote the role? Did you even have to audition? Or were you just like, yo, yo, pull up.

[Alex Russell]

We, we.

[Host 2]

I got one for you.

[Alex Russell]

He. He had to audition, but it was more casual, was more like, let's try some stuff out. Let's see. The only thing I was concerned about was if he was going to age out of the role. Oh, really?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

That's ageism. You can't do that.

[Host 2]

Black don't crack, dude.

[Alex Russell]

Come on now. Well, we. There was this. I mean, it took a few years to get going, so I had to add in something that was like. There's a line in the movie where Matthew is like, how old are you? And, like, that wasn't his original script. Yeah, it's kind of to, like, indicate he is kind of the guy who's a little bit too old to be hanging around in this environment anymore.

[Host 2]

Yeah, right. That's hilarious.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

What was the single hardest part about Making worker.

[Alex Russell]

Honestly, it was everything. Before shooting, it was like.

[Host 1]

Because that's the most important. Right. You gotta. You gotta fail to plan. Plan to fail.

[Alex Russell]

Yes. And you have to get someone to give you millions of dollars, so. Millions of dollars. Allegedly.

[Host 1]

That's the budget here.

[Host 2]

Allegedly.

[Alex Russell]

I could tell you it was in the millions.

[Host 2]

Nice.

[Host 1]

So all that writing, it or just the. Between writing and shooting?

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, I would say, yeah. The development process for me, obviously, like, things could have gone sideways, but I think you've seen the movie. It's like, this is. This is probably the best version of what this movie could be.

[Host 2]

That must feel good.

[Alex Russell]

That feels really good. Because it being my first one, like, if. If we flopped and like, I. I wouldn't have gotten to do another one.

[Host 1]

Now you set the bar so high for yourself, you can't flop. Yeah, well, thought about that.

[Host 2]

Are you flat proof?

[Alex Russell]

I definitely not. I'm not flop proof. I think you. You do two. You do two or, like, and they say it's like, either the movie has to make money or it has to, like, get the critics. Okay, I think we'll at least get one of those.

[Host 1]

One for you, one for them.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

But I think if you do two that are well liked, then you can. You're kind of flop proof.

[Host 2]

Okay, good.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Alex Russell]

But not one.

[Host 1]

I want to go back to valid.

[Alex Russell]

The.

[Host 1]

The pre. Pre production stuff. And it's kind of like time was a muddled here, but, like, when you're doing the festival circuit, you know, people see that, like, oh, it's lit. It's just partying. It's like the episode of Entourage. We're just chilling with your boys. Yeah, but you're also there to, like, sell the movie. It's there to. You're there to do deals. When you were on the circuit, were you, like, hanging out Entourage style, or were you, like, learning how to play politics and raise money and seduce distributors and like that?

[Alex Russell]

So season two, episode seven of Entourage, right?

[Host 2]

Yes.

[Alex Russell]

The Sundance Kids, I believe it's called.

[Host 1]

Yeah. When they cross dreams.

[Host 2]

Uhhuh.

[Alex Russell]

Yes. Yeah, I probably watched like 35 times leading up to the festival.

[Host 2]

Doing your homework.

[Host 1]

Great. Helly Hansen jacket on Turtle.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

Yes. That's not what it is. It's like, I forget what the name of it is, but it's like a Nordic flag. Yeah, but Hanson, it's like, all right, here we go. I was gonna buy this exact jacket.

[Host 1]

Like South Pole or something.

[Alex Russell]

Like, it has like. It's like the name of a mountain or something.

[Host 2]

Okay, well.

[Host 1]

Well, Johnny has The best fit.

[Host 2]

Oh, it's. It's this. What is this brand they collab with Martin Rose. I can never pronounce. Yeah. What?

[Host 1]

Nepal. Whatever. Yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

You guys. You guys know it.

[Host 1]

Yo, Johnny's fit. Kind of looks like Cam Hicks in the Louie.

[Alex Russell]

Let me see.

[Host 2]

Like, straight off the Runway, dude. You went Aspen cowboy.

[Alex Russell]

Oh, yeah.

[Host 1]

It looks like Cam in the Louie. No.

[Host 2]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. You're not wrong. And so I watch it a lot of times, and it was. But it's mace. It was mainly to, like, you know, I was so anxious about the whole thing. It was like, what happened to me?

[Host 2]

Harvey.

[Alex Russell]

So heart. So Harvey Weingard.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

Is a character in that episode, and he gets, like, really angry because I've seen it too many times to not know what the problem. Cameron. James Cameron comes in at the end. Yep. And calls and says, how would you like to play Aquaman? Yep.

[Host 2]

Everything worked out. Like a typical.

[Alex Russell]

Everything works out. Yeah.

[Host 1]

He's like on the set of, like, Titanic 2 or something. Like.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

He's like, I'm in my submersible.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

How would you like to play Aquaman?

[Alex Russell]

My favorite thing about Entourage is, like, the stakes are always like, will, like, instead of, like, just a really good thing happening, what if the. What if the best thing ever doesn't happen?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

Like the one where, like, Aquaman's coming out and they're worried about the movie not coming out and being the number one box office movie of all time. Those are the stakes. And then, like, the blackouts happen. Yeah.

[Host 1]

And then there's a golden God. The house party.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

What is the director, Billy Walsh.

[Host 2]

Yes.

[Alex Russell]

He's sitting in the Sundance Medellin. He's. He's like, this is my Deer Hunter or whatever.

[Host 1]

He has one of the greatest T shirts of all time. Suits suck.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

You should start wearing that.

[Alex Russell]

So that. Honestly, I was sort of. If you're into gambling, which I'm not, but I was for this. This trip, because you go there with a. You go raw to Sundance, and hopefully you leave. You could leave with less than you brought. You know, you could leave with, like, people hated your movie.

[Host 2]

Bad Bu.

[Alex Russell]

Or you could. You could leave, my boy.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. We're not talking about it. It's 2005.

[Host 2]

Things are awkward.

[Alex Russell]

That's not cool back then. Now it is cool. Yeah. So that be the only difference between the, like, my version of Entourage going now and, like, the 2005 version.

[Host 2]

You didn't get laid.

[Alex Russell]

It's like, it would be cool if that did happen, right?

[Host 1]

We. We're bisexual in 2025. All right.

[Alex Russell]

But yeah, get going. Going. And. And selling the movie like, that is one of the most fun parts about it. If you.

[Host 1]

Do you. You like dancing like a little monkey. Sorry, that's pejorative.

[Alex Russell]

No, I think, I think. I don't. I don't really know how I played it. I think I just tried to. To have a good time at the Q and A's. And the.

[Host 2]

You saying it's fun now because you got the job done. Like, you wouldn't, like, is. No, it's just a retrospect thing.

[Alex Russell]

Like, no, it was fun at the time because you're like, you're like getting. You're like, oh, we just got a call from, like, so and so. Like, they made an offer. And then like, the offers are changing now. You're like meeting, you know, hitting. And at the same time, you're like, you're meeting all these other directors and like, I have friends from, From Sundance still that, like, it was. I mean, it was just the most fun thing ever because you're there with everyone who's just excited. Right. About movies. And like, a bunch of my crew was there. And you just run. It's. It's very. The style of the festival is my favorite because there's like one Main street and you're constantly running into people.

[Host 2]

Stop and chat.

[Host 1]

Now you got to go to Boulder.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

Well, I think Boulder now you gotta.

[Host 2]

Have a threesome with James Gunn, dude. I mean, Jesus Christ. Sunday. That's where it all happens soon.

[Host 1]

Because we're moving it to Boulder, Colorado.

[Alex Russell]

I feel. I weirdly feel like the girl who they have the threesome with is from Boulder.

[Host 2]

Oh, in the, in the show, she's.

[Host 1]

From like, you see Boulder. That's gotta be.

[Alex Russell]

How am I gonna just.

[Host 2]

Where did the girl who had the threesome girls.

[Host 1]

Threesome girl?

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, dude.

[Host 1]

Colorado.

[Host 2]

You guys really want to know?

[Host 1]

College, sorority, threesome girls.

[Host 2]

I hate my role in the show.

[Host 1]

While Lawrence is looking that up, we want to know because we have known you for a minute since the all day days. What would you say is more difficult? Getting a movie greenlit in Hollywood or making a living in New York City while being in music journalism.

[Alex Russell]

Now or 12 years ago? The answer is the same, actually.

[Host 1]

Okay, what is it?

[Alex Russell]

It's the second one.

[Host 1]

Making up music. Making a living in New York as a music journalist is easier.

[Alex Russell]

No, it's hard. It's harder. Definitely.

[Host 2]

She works for the Peace Corps, but I've not seen the college?

[Alex Russell]

No.

[Host 2]

Okay, well, Google AI hasn't advanced this far yet.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, maybe. Yeah, maybe. The next iteration.

[Host 1]

Eric Murphy was invited to have the threesome. It was Turtle and Drama.

[Host 2]

Whatever.

[Alex Russell]

Yes. Eric's dealing with Harvey Weingart the whole time.

[Host 2]

Right, Right.

[Host 1]

And Ari looks at his dick at the urinal.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Different type of sexual tension.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. What does he say?

[Host 2]

It's like, nice dick you at you.

[Host 1]

E.

[Alex Russell]

He's like, trying to get them to do the surfing movie.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

I don't know. Anyway, so sick.

[Host 2]

It is. It is awesome to watch now in my life.

[Host 1]

Rain Wilson calls Vincent after he lands Aquaman. He's at Comic Con. And then he convinced. And then he convinced.

[Alex Russell]

Oh, yeah. Rain Wilson is the critic. Yeah. And the way that they get him to be nice is by sending porn stars to his room or something like that.

[Host 1]

The pussy posse.

[Host 2]

Yeah. That's how you're getting such good reviews.

[Alex Russell]

Right?

[Host 2]

A little gift basket. A little edible arrangement, if you will.

[Host 1]

You did spend a lot of time as a music journalist, and there are parallels between the world and the things that you saw and lived in and what's in this movie. Were there any detail or moments in the film that were directly lifted from time you spent in the music industry? Probably like a one for one.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Maybe not like you personally, but things you witness.

[Alex Russell]

For sure. Yeah. Well, it's like just being in those kinds of rooms, like, you know, you have a sense of what people might say. What people? Oh, sorry, sorry.

[Host 2]

You're fine.

[Alex Russell]

You know, I will, like. I will say I feel like one of the reasons that critics do like this movie is that they can relate to, like, the. The boundaries of access.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Alex Russell]

If you are, say, a music journalist and you have to, you know, it's almost famous. Right. It's like his whole thing in that movie is like, will these people be friends with me after this? Right.

[Host 2]

Ingratiation. Ingratiation. Integration.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. And that's. That's sort of a line that every journalist has to draw. Right. How personal. And, you know, am I doing a puff piece on my favorite artists? Right. And what is that? What does that look like? If it is my favorite artist? Who are. What if they said, I want to keep hanging out after this? So I think a lot. A lot of, like, journalists will watch this movie and. And relate to it in a way.

[Host 2]

Is that something you thought about when you were writing it, or is that just something that was, like, latent and held over from when you were, like, a journalist yourself? Because that's a great trick to get critics to like your. It's just.

[Host 1]

Why every movie about Hollywood cleans up. The Oscars.

[Host 2]

Babylon.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. The AR Classic.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

I'm.

[Alex Russell]

I'm really worried about actually, like, falling into that pocket of, like, now I'm just writing something about Hollywood because it's been my experience for the last few years, and, like, my life is kind of like Entourage.

[Host 2]

Yeah, your life.

[Alex Russell]

Entourage. If the budget was 1% okay of.

[Host 1]

So you're not.

[Alex Russell]

What's happening.

[Host 1]

You're not at a brothel with Bob Saget. You're in.

[Alex Russell]

No. Whatever is like, the 1%. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Check with Zack Fox.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 1]

With Uncle Jesse.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. What were we talking about?

[Host 1]

Just, like, how you. I don't know, your personal experience kind of being. Being in those rooms where it is always such, like, a hierarchy of, like and sycophantic and, like, it's, like, competitive to get adjacency or proximity to the. To the star. It's cloud chasing one on one.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Cloud chasing Olympics.

[Alex Russell]

I think what I've noticed is, like, it's just like everything else. It's just like every industry. I mean, Hollywood, obviously, it's still entertainment. So you're playing the. Everyone's playing these same games and not talking about it, but everyone's, you know, in Hollywood, it's the best. It's all the best. Liars. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Have you been invited to any Hollywood Illuminati pedophile parties yet?

[Alex Russell]

Not that I know of.

[Host 2]

Hollywood liar.

[Host 1]

Maybe when you make that, maybe when you wake that second beloved film, that's when the invite circle.

[Alex Russell]

I'm still waiting. I'm still unrecognized.

[Host 2]

Now that you have this, like, nice little juice and success, how often are you seeing people treat you differently in those rooms? Like, now that you're maybe on, like, approaching the other side of it.

[Host 1]

Oh, are you Archie?

[Host 2]

Or do you find that, like, is that weird when that. It's. It must happen, right? Alex, Emmy award winner. Are you Glow winner? Yo. Yo. Are you Oliver?

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

Well, what about outside?

[Host 2]

Well, that guy worked on a thing with the movie, but Alex was recognized outside. I can confirm I was there.

[Alex Russell]

What was I gonna say? I feel like you're always. You're Matthew or Oliver, you know, sometimes, like, sometimes binary. You're in a room where, you know, you want something out of the room, you want to impress the room. Or you could tell you're in a room where you. Someone's trying to impress you. You know, both are very uncomfortable.

[Host 2]

Oh, yeah, right.

[Alex Russell]

Well, I think it's just a Part of life. People. People want to be liked.

[Host 1]

I don't know.

[Alex Russell]

I want you guys to like me.

[Host 1]

We do.

[Host 2]

Like, we love you, dude, what are you talking about?

[Alex Russell]

I would do anything.

[Host 2]

Really. Prove it. I want you to grow up.

[Alex Russell]

Like, can I hang out after? What if I stayed while you did the other part?

[Host 1]

I want you go out there and kill her landlord.

[Host 2]

Lord, no.

[Alex Russell]

Is it Beef? No, but he is an old man.

[Host 2]

Who'S going to just die of old age anyway, so I don't think he needs to be a murder.

[Host 1]

It's a landlord, bro. Kill all landlords.

[Host 2]

Kill all.

[Alex Russell]

Putting the pressure on you guys.

[Host 1]

He's put the squeeze on us. What's the most? Okay, maybe it didn't make it the movie, but, like, what is the most. You told Frasier that you've seen some up. Like, what is the most twisted you've seen someone do just to get that proximity to clout?

[Alex Russell]

I. I haven't seen that much in person. But you. You see, I mean, like, Selena is a way crazier story than what happens in Lurker. The thing about Lurker is that it's kind of grounded and, like, the way things play out is not with. It's within the realm of not fantastical at all.

[Host 2]

That's why it's, I think, a great movie.

[Alex Russell]

Right? And I think that was, you know, one of the points I was trying to make. But, like, you know, John Lennon, like, people actually, like, kill each other over.

[Host 1]

Oh, yeah, that's true.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. True.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Trying to impress Jody Foster.

[Alex Russell]

People crash out in those insane ways. People that they barely know.

[Host 2]

Right?

[Alex Russell]

And I think that's.

[Host 2]

Well, one of these things you're talking about is obsession. Whereas in this movie, I think there's obviously some of that too, but it's also about, like, you know, thinking about your own career and, like, what you have going on. If you remove that North Star from your life creatively, right? It's. I mean, I think it's a. But, like, in terms of John Lennon getting shot or whatever, I mean, we're talking about obsession, right?

[Host 1]

Is.

[Host 2]

I don't know if there was career stuff related to that.

[Alex Russell]

But, you know, the other thing it makes me think of is, like.

[Host 1]

What.

[Alex Russell]

I think is different about this movie from similar ones is, like, he doesn't know what his goal is besides proximity. He's not trying to be Oliver, right? And he's, like, grasping at the. Just being close to the light. And even when people ask him about what he does, you could feel that he's like, trying to come up with it on the spot. It's like he'll be a visual artist.

[Host 1]

If that's a creative director.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

If that's what is being asked of him. Yeah. For that proximity, you know, a more.

[Host 1]

Not a more appointed moment I thought was when he gets approached by a guy that's like, yo, you're Matthew. I love you.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Which, like, what do you do with Oliver? Again, like, it's more.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. Jonas.

[Host 1]

Yeah. It's more like the.

[Alex Russell]

Wait, wait. To answer the question about what I'll be remembered for the most.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

I think it will be for putting Jonas in this movie.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

You think he's gonna be a superstar? I think he's so funny.

[Alex Russell]

I think he's like the voice of his generation.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Great. IG follow or tick tock, I guess.

[Alex Russell]

But wait, why was I saying that? Oh, yeah. So that's. That's the one where he's like. You could tell in the. His gears are turned. He's like trying to come up with something that will sound appropriate, but he wasn't even thinking about that.

[Host 2]

No. Or hadn't thought about it at all up until that point.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's what. To me, one of the funniest moments is like, wait, what do I do? Yeah, he's. Wait, what do I want? Because it's like, yeah, I want to be like you, but what do you do?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

And then he is, yo, you inspired.

[Host 1]

Me to be myself, bro. He's like, what are you doing?

[Alex Russell]

Wait, what?

[Host 2]

Do it.

[Alex Russell]

Like, neither of them know.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

But they're both inspiring. Each.

[Host 1]

That's just a typical Echo park interaction now at this point.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah. Little silver like John.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

How important are these comedic moments in this store or this story where I like. Overall, this is like a thriller, right. This movie, it's in. There's subject matter is fairly serious, but there are hilarious moments like we talked about. I don't want to let the biria scene leave it at that. Like, things like that are hilarious.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. I mean, I. The whole time I was thinking about what would be funny to me. Like, that's how I kind of kept writing it. It's like, oh, that would be funny.

[Host 2]

Like in a cringe way or like actually like comedy.

[Alex Russell]

I think in. It's in the irony of the moment, you know, or in the unexpected nature of the moment. Like, the let's wrestle is so funny to me, but also makes a lot of dramatic sense for where they are and who. What Matthew's about. So I Think that's. That's kind of.

[Host 1]

That's funny to me that I was like, oh, what the is about to happen?

[Host 2]

Right. Were your expectations completely subverted though by the result?

[Host 1]

My butthole just puckered up.

[Alex Russell]

But when as I'm sure. Well, it's like that's the thing is like sometimes the funniest thing is the most dramatic and vice versa. Yeah, but like on set we would be doing that and like as soon as I called Kite, we would all start time laughing.

[Host 2]

So, you know, it's good, right?

[Alex Russell]

Maybe.

[Host 1]

Was there like instant chemistry? Not just because obviously like, you know, you, Zach, Cam are all homies. Like, was there instant chemistry with. With everyone involved?

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Or did it take time to. To.

[Alex Russell]

No, it was instant and I was very lucky with that. But I think, you know, that came from sort of my instant chemistry with whoever the person was. And then it made sense that the ensemble all made. All got along really well because I was sort of the test for that, you know.

[Host 1]

How hot is Archie in real life?

[Alex Russell]

He's very attractive to me. Yeah, he's your type of.

[Host 1]

Is he taller than you?

[Alex Russell]

He is. He's 6 5.

[Host 2]

Crazy. Should have hooped, bro.

[Alex Russell]

And Cam is 65 too.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. Then Kenny's 6 7.

[Host 1]

What is this, the tallest movie of all time?

[Host 2]

Oh, it's up there.

[Alex Russell]

This is super tall Hoosiers. Yeah. Yeah.

[Host 2]

White boys and hoosiers.

[Alex Russell]

6 7.

[Host 2]

The.

[Host 1]

What are they feeding these boys?

[Alex Russell]

I don't. I don't know. I don't know if that's what.

[Host 2]

Yeah, it was.

[Alex Russell]

It was great for the movie, I think for like Archie to be taller than everyone else.

[Host 2]

Yeah, I mean, it's. It's, you know, magnetic commands respect. Yes, of course. Absolutely.

[Host 1]

Does Ellie need. Is it necessary to have this cottage industry clout demons to survive as the entertainment hub of the world? Because like, you can have the stars. You need all the people supporting them too.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Alex Russell]

It's. I. I mean, in a way, that's the thesis of the movie or the. The question.

[Host 2]

Yeah. It's the fuel for an entire city, dude.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. I think you can't have one without the other, I guess.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Entertainment. You can't have entertainment without cloud chasing.

[Alex Russell]

Is what you're saying. Totally.

[Host 1]

Well, yeah, you could have.

[Alex Russell]

Why else would anyone be doing any of this if not.

[Host 2]

Well, in New York, it's like the same ship, but the stakes are mad low.

[Host 1]

It's like that's what the money's for.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

That's what the cloud is for.

[Alex Russell]

It also seem Seems like in New York there are artists who don't care about being famous.

[Host 2]

That's what they want you to think, dude. Because you're from L. A, they want you to think that they're better.

[Alex Russell]

We're. Yeah, we're doing the real thing. Yeah, I just do paintings and I don't show them to anyone.

[Host 2]

Totally.

[Alex Russell]

Also, no one's asking to see them.

[Host 1]

Has moving to L. A actually twisted your psyche in any way?

[Alex Russell]

Probably, yeah.

[Host 2]

For worse.

[Alex Russell]

For worse, yeah.

[Host 2]

What's the biggest thing about L. A, Alex? That you're like, I hate to admit it, but I've been changed. I switched up. It's got to be something.

[Alex Russell]

I don't know if I switched up, but, like, because I have good friends that I've known since before working in Hollywood who luckily live in LA with me. I do. I do. It's like what I was saying earlier about not wanting to end up writing my next thing about Hollywood and wanting. Not wanting to be complacent, you know? I know. I know a lot of people who just really live in that bubble of, like, TV world and, like, you end up surrounding yourself with so many people do the same thing as you, for obvious reasons. But, like, becoming sort of complacent in that environment is my fear, so I really want to be somewhere else.

[Host 2]

Is that not competitive? You said complacent, but, like, are you guys not in, like, even homies? Like, there's no competition in terms of, like, you know, the limited resources that is out there to fund these projects.

[Host 1]

Are you in competition with your homies?

[Host 2]

Well, that's what I'm saying. I'm asking, are they.

[Alex Russell]

What do you think?

[Host 2]

What do I think? Like, from your perspective, I want to say, like, you're a bigger man than that, but I feel like there's other.

[Alex Russell]

People who are being competitive with, like.

[Host 2]

No. Yeah, I think so. I mean, you're. Because you're better. No, let's be real. You got the hardware, bro. It's hidden by the TV to prove it.

[Alex Russell]

I. I think this glazing is on.

[Host 1]

Some Matthew levels, I think, trying to.

[Host 2]

Get my next gig lined up.

[Alex Russell]

I think the thing that I want the most is to avoid sort of the next shiny opportunity and to do the thing, because when I wrote this movie, actually, no one gave a shit. Actually, I was writing it thinking, like, no one was going to read this. I had friends who I would give it to and, you know, I would print out a hard copy and, like, half of them would just, like, never look at damn Dude. So this. Having the low stakes of like, I had fun writing this and it feels like I'm exploring something. That's the goal. And I think the real challenge next is going to be to avoid things that sound really appealing to Marvel movie thunderbolts too.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

For example, worker man.

[Host 2]

You know, more thunder, more bolts.

[Alex Russell]

You know what I would want.

[Host 1]

He lurks.

[Alex Russell]

You know what I would write in the superhero space? I was. I would want to do the Robin movie.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Alex Russell]

Like, I feel like I could do. I could do that. Like, like Batman's number one fan. Like the number two guy.

[Host 2]

Oh, his lurker. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Alex Russell]

Like that would be fun. His.

[Host 2]

His weed car. His weed carrier.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, straight up. Okay. Yeah. He finds out like where. Where did I meet you?

[Host 2]

You know, apparently Matt Reeves is writing a Robin character into the. The Batman too. So I think he might be beat there.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

But not a full on origin story.

[Alex Russell]

The thing is like, I'm sure never let me do. I. I've been thinking recently it'd be fun to do like a IP based thing like first Hyperlo. Like do a Lord of the Golem, like spin off for like two M's. Like, and it's just like, it's just like hyper. Low budget.

[Host 1]

No cgi.

[Alex Russell]

No, it's just like one. Yeah, one costume.

[Host 1]

Just a guy just looking for a ring.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alex Russell]

It's like.

[Host 2]

Wait, you see Gollum, like you see yourself in Gollum is what you're saying. There's a little creature I, I could.

[Alex Russell]

Imagine, I could rob. I can relate to someone who's like really trying to get some. A ring, you know, I mean, Gollum is so relatable because you're like, yeah, I get why you would want that super powerful thing.

[Host 1]

Dude. He's like the Kobe Bryant of Middle Earth. He's doing whatever it'll take to get a ring.

[Host 2]

Yeah, the Mamba mentality. Yeah, for sure.

[Alex Russell]

What does the deal with all the other rings? Like, they're not.

[Host 2]

Well, there's one ring to rule them all, dog.

[Alex Russell]

So the other ones are just irrelevant.

[Host 2]

They don't matter. Of course not. They're not ruling anything.

[Host 1]

It's like winning, you know, Most improved book dude.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Do you think? Do you think. Okay, forget like your contemporaries. Let's talk about yourself. Do you think a younger Alex Russell would look at current Alex Russell and think he got soft or Hollywood pilled at all? It sounds like that's a big fear of yours. Just like succumb to the temptations and the siren songs of Tinseltown See, I.

[Alex Russell]

Think young Alex would be absolutely floored by the fact that I did any of them.

[Host 1]

This because like that you found success or that you were able to find it within you to like do it or both.

[Alex Russell]

I mean, like making a movie that was not within the my imagination.

[Host 1]

But it's easier than being a music journalist.

[Alex Russell]

Well, I didn't know that when I tried to be one, but I remember.

[Host 2]

I didn't have all the codes.

[Alex Russell]

I did.

[Host 1]

Like.

[Alex Russell]

I feel like there was a point where like someone was toying with the idea of giving me a full time job at somewhere and it wasn't at four pins like this. I feel like the salary was like in the 20s.

[Host 1]

Damn.

[Host 2]

Yeah, it's a tough one.

[Alex Russell]

And I was like, how have the rest of you guys been doing that?

[Host 2]

Open bars and past shared apps, bro.

[Host 1]

Yeah. But also by not accepting a salary of sub $36,000. Got a negotiate as a 23 year old.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. So I was like. I mean, there was also the time that I got into. It was a little bit like the writing was on the wall.

[Host 2]

Oh yeah.

[Alex Russell]

For sure. About, you know, having to get out of it. So I think, you know, it would have been interesting if I got into like five years earlier and then like, that's my job and career and I have to figure out a true pivot. Like, I didn't have to pivot away from that because I know. Fully locked in.

[Host 2]

I always thought you would write a book if I'm being totally frank.

[Alex Russell]

That's very flattering.

[Host 2]

Yeah. This. I. I did not see this coming. Just much like, much like everyone else.

[Host 1]

It's like Angel Diaz always quotes Tony Soprano. I feel like you just missed it get there and you just missed the golden age.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

Yes. I've. I feel like me and Frazier were talking about this.

[Host 1]

Well, Frazier used that quote and then Angel's like, yo, I always use that quote. Frazier, you stole that quote from me.

[Host 2]

Airing out the group chat. Dirty laundry. This is what the pot is for real journalists.

[Alex Russell]

I did kind of feel that where it's like you're kind of the last guy on the Titanic and you're like, am I gonna like just sync with this or do I need to pivoting to video? And even, even now, even Hollywood like in a way feels like that. Like as soon as I've gotten into it, everyone's like, it's over.

[Host 2]

So Lurker's not saving Hollywood.

[Alex Russell]

No. Well, no, but you know, at the same time, people still watch stuff.

[Host 2]

Sure.

[Alex Russell]

And things.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

But I do feel like, you know, people are like, oh, people only watch stuff on. On tick tock or whatever. But like nothing becomes a phenomenon the way that like a TV show will, like, it becomes such a cultural. Like, it becomes the thing that people tick tock about. You know what I mean?

[Host 2]

So no lurker edits and fan cams, you don't think. Because I think there's amazing content right there. Right. For the picking?

[Alex Russell]

Personally, no, I do think and hope that will happen, but like, it's a. It's a supplementary thing.

[Host 1]

You guys only paid for the Nolita dirtbag Instagram.

[Host 2]

You didn't pay for Great guys. That was great spot. Honestly, better than one battle after another's marketing strategy, I'll tell you that much.

[Alex Russell]

I do wonder how. How well this, like that strategy of like infl. Like, has anyone seen the returns on it doing stuff like that?

[Host 2]

Well, no, no your returns on this pot either. So, you know, you just do it, right?

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. But people do listen to podcasts. That's what I do for sure is like, especially people. Is this a big one?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

That's sick.

[Host 2]

It's our job, right?

[Host 1]

No, we left complex, like many, many years.

[Alex Russell]

I actually, like, there was stuff in between.

[Host 2]

There was.

[Host 1]

There's. There's some things between.

[Alex Russell]

But like, congrats on it actually working.

[Host 2]

Thanks, bro.

[Alex Russell]

Because it's what, it's been 10 years.

[Host 1]

Or something like that.

[Host 2]

Almost 10 years from the 2016 is when we officially started podcasting. So we're still here.

[Host 1]

Well, the way that you say that Hollywood's over.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

Podcasts are just beginning.

[Host 1]

Podcast, podcast, Yo. Get in while the getting's good, bro.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

But is okay if Hollywood is over? According to Lurker, That's Russell.

[Alex Russell]

I said people are saying that.

[Host 1]

Many people are saying that Hollywood is over. That being said, as someone that worked on the small screen and is now on the big screen, is everyone who works in TV low key, kind of trying, hoping to one day level up into movie production?

[Alex Russell]

I think a lot of people are. At the same time, there's. There's a lot you can get from tv. And like, if I had tried to make a show first, like, I might. I might have gotten a show made. And you would have. I would have had a crazy budget. It's like, like, like the budget for TV is huge. And if you could get. If you can get a show going. My thing is like, I really like the idea of a complete piece.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

You know, and it's hard for me to plan for limited series.

[Host 1]

We Need a cliffhanger.

[Host 2]

You could do a fucking limited series.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. I think a lot of TV people like have their feature script and vice versa. It's really rare that you see someone capable of. Of doing both at a high level.

[Host 2]

You've seen hire yourself in the back, brother.

[Alex Russell]

Well, no, I wouldn't count myself in that yet because I talk about showrunners. Yeah, well, like, yeah, someone who created a show versus like making their own movies and vice versa.

[Host 1]

Oh, that guy that did Succession, who then did that other movie which bricked Stinker. There you go.

[Alex Russell]

Mountain Head. I haven't.

[Host 2]

Yeah, it's absolute dog.

[Alex Russell]

But it is, it is very rare that you see people go either way. Like, like very well known movie people trying to do a show. Like, it just, it might just be a different way of thinking, different medium.

[Host 1]

So it's a different way of like creating for said medium.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And you're not ruling out going obviously back to the small screen right now that you've had to taste.

[Alex Russell]

Not at all.

[Host 1]

Need those Netflix checks, baby. True.

[Host 2]

The money. Money. That's what the money is for.

[Host 1]

Beef Season two. Coming soon.

[Alex Russell]

Coming soon. Yeah, I just saw the first couple episodes.

[Host 2]

Oh, yeah. How we feeling? Bullish. Pretend you didn't work on it. Or did you work on it?

[Alex Russell]

I did.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

Same cast.

[Alex Russell]

No. Crazy. Is it Oscar Isaac? Carrie Mulligan? Yeah, dude, Charles Melton. Speaking of ways he's a hottie.

[Host 2]

Yeah, we'll get. We'll get there.

[Alex Russell]

Smoking.

[Host 1]

Oscar Isaac. How's his swag irl? Because obviously he gussies it up for the red carpet, but like, I never met him.

[Host 2]

Really.

[Host 1]

Oh, you're, you're just a writer.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. So that's why I had to get out of the writers room. It's like I had to get like.

[Host 2]

I gotta shake me corner.

[Host 1]

I want to be. I want to be next to the stars. Yeah, I need to work. Okay, as a filmmaker, what is your relationship and perception of letterboxd culture? And first, why don't you define what letterbox culture is in your eyes?

[Alex Russell]

Well, I mean, it's crazy. It's crazy. Go like. And I used to go on there and do little stupid reviews or rate stuff. And now I'm like, I'm like so sensitive. Like, and it's like, of course. You see like 100, like glowing reviews and you see one that's like, this guy should fucking kill himself. And you're like, I need to kill myself. I need to kill myself. Or go change this person's mind in.

[Host 2]

My mind single handedly. I should add messaging on letterbox so you could do that.

[Alex Russell]

Oh, my God.

[Host 2]

Hey, it's Alex Russell.

[Alex Russell]

Anytime I see, like, the one mean review in my mind, I'm like, I'll get them with the next one.

[Host 1]

So you're reading every review?

[Alex Russell]

Unfortunately, I've seen a lot of them, and it's like a pathological, like, problem that I'm having, like, right now.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

Where I'm like, I'm. Most days, I'm good at sort of extracting the signal, you know, which is, like, people really like this movie.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Alex Russell]

And I'm very. I'm very happy about that. And on. On my worst days, I. I will become preoccupied with, like, some stupid thing that someone says.

[Host 1]

Do you think it's healthy that now everyone is a critic?

[Alex Russell]

It is.

[Host 1]

Or is it, like, why are people consuming. Consuming this just so they can funnel out a quippy little reviews that they can get their little moment in the sun?

[Alex Russell]

I. I think it's fun. I think it's fine because it's a fun way to engage with the movies. And I think, like, for me, and.

[Host 1]

You guys need all the help you can get right now.

[Alex Russell]

Absolutely. But for. For me, I'm kind of like, star counts. The. The way I think about it is, like, I wanted to be in the arena. Right. And it's like, if. If you. If you play sports, like, there's a crowd there, and like, half of the people there are actively rooting for you to lose.

[Host 1]

To die.

[Host 2]

Damn.

[Alex Russell]

You're. You know what I mean? So if you don't want to. If you don't want to be in that situation, then don't. But you have to be able to.

[Host 2]

The man take it. The man in the arena. Yeah.

[Host 1]

It's giving. Teddy Roosevelt.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

Is he the one who said that?

[Host 2]

I believe so, yeah.

[Host 1]

Gladiator with dust on his face. Dustin. Blood on his face versus the critic. They don't build statues of critics.

[Alex Russell]

But. But it's. It's so interesting.

[Host 1]

Statue of letterbox reviewers.

[Host 2]

No, but you can't go. You can't get a lot of likes.

[Alex Russell]

Trust me.

[Host 1]

Which makes it feel good.

[Alex Russell]

You know, it's. It's dopamine. It's interesting because this process, you know, it's for an audience, like, it's not for yourself. That's the painting and showing it to yourself in your room, like, you have to have a tether to your audience. You have to have a sense of who are you talking to? Who. What are you communicating? The thing you intended to. So that's why I'm kind of addicted to feedback in general. Like, even when making this movie, I've always been like, did you get that? Did that make sense to you? And it's like, obviously there's going to be so many different layers of people taking. Someone's going to watch this movie and be like, this is. I'm going to act like this. This is how you clout good. Yeah. Clout good. Like Wall street or something.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah. Greed, like cloud is good.

[Alex Russell]

And you know, they're just going to be different tiers of what people get out of it.

[Host 2]

Just the interpretation.

[Alex Russell]

Yes.

[Host 2]

Is that. Do you care what the interpretation is that they get?

[Alex Russell]

Well, I hope that it's within the realm of what the movie is going for.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Alex Russell]

You know, and obviously not. It can't do everything for everyone. And I should. I should have a healthier day to day. I think I'm just getting used to it.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Alex Russell]

You know, like, in my mind I'm kind of like, yeah, it's just like I pulled something off, you know, and I want to be proud of that. And I am, but I'm. I think I'm just. I have a problem where I'm always looking for a reason to feel disappointed.

[Host 2]

Or like you're glad for punishment is what you're saying.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, I think, like, I seek out.

[Host 1]

They got therapists for that and medication.

[Alex Russell]

What kind of medication?

[Host 1]

Not good ones.

[Host 2]

How you trying to feel, dog? Yeah, you kind of self.

[Host 1]

You're trying to be a star.

[Alex Russell]

I want to feel. I want to feel good when good things happen.

[Host 2]

Cocaine.

[Alex Russell]

Really?

[Host 2]

Allegedly.

[Host 1]

He was gonna say that no matter.

[Host 2]

What I had in chamber.

[Alex Russell]

Like, I can't really predict how I'm going to feel about anything. I always think that good thing happens and I'll feel good, bad thing happens, I'll feel bad. But it's, it's. It's never what I think it's gonna be.

[Host 2]

Unpredictability of life.

[Host 1]

How do you feel right before. I don't know how it works in movies, but right before somebody hit post on Lurker and it went live to the world. Like, what was going through you as this baby that you pull out your. And you presented to the world?

[Alex Russell]

Sundance.

[Host 1]

Is that the first time that people outside of like your crew and. And homies saw it?

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

What was going through your head besides just like, I hope it's good.

[Alex Russell]

Mostly that it was mo because like I was at Sundance and I had like, I saw how you can like lose or gain everyone. It's a Huge. Like, echoes is like 1200 people. And like, I had. I had shown. I'd done rough cut screenings where, like, you do get some randoms in there and. But it's mostly people that kind of know you or know the producers or something.

[Host 2]

So getting notes in that process, too, like, from.

[Alex Russell]

Okay, yeah, I'm asking for them. And Sundance is the first. It's the first moment where everyone is there as like, okay, impress me, the public.

[Host 1]

Show me what you got.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. They don't care what you went through to do this. No, they're there. They paid money to be there. You know, they're. Yeah. And they hope. They want those two hours to, like.

[Host 2]

They want it to be good. Right. They don't want to see a piece of.

[Alex Russell]

I think so. I think people. Yeah. I think you actually go in with a lot of goodwill. It's like, people are excited to. To see a good movie that no one's seen before.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Alex Russell]

So I was. Yeah, I was really like, hopefully this isn't a disaster.

[Host 1]

What was the best note you got in those rough screenings? And also, what was the worst, dumbest note you got? Piece of feedback.

[Host 2]

It should all be a dream. That'd be cool.

[Host 1]

I mean, Oliver was a sled.

[Alex Russell]

They're also. They're all little things. Honestly, it was a relief after the first rough cut screening because people were like, this doesn't seem like a rough cut. It seems almost done.

[Host 1]

Oh, nice ship it.

[Alex Russell]

And it was more like post. I had, like, I had a friend, another TV writer friend, Karen, who had. Who suggested that when we shot the London stuff, you saw a moment of Oliver with, like, a boy and a girl.

[Host 2]

Oh, yeah.

[Alex Russell]

So. So that when Matthew sees that, it's like, oh, that's something that I could offer, you know, and it sort of tells the audience where. That Oliver is sort of fluid in that way.

[Host 2]

It does tell. I know exactly where. It's like, they're in the club, right? And he seems like, yeah.

[Alex Russell]

So that was. That was maybe the most practically helpful.

[Host 2]

The first Karen ever with actually good advice.

[Host 1]

What was the worst note you got? You don't have to name them, but.

[Alex Russell]

I'm trying to think of. I mean, the thing is that the. The things that are dumb on the surface are just as helpful because you're like, okay. They.

[Host 1]

Okay, that's so diplomatic.

[Alex Russell]

We didn't get that.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Oh, okay.

[Host 2]

This moron needs something more obvious.

[Host 1]

Is this ASAP mob? What is like, no, Karen. Not Karen.

[Alex Russell]

But, yeah, Karen is a pejorative. I think it's Interesting when people who are super out of touch are like, this isn't what. What the music world is like at all.

[Host 2]

Is that a criticism that you're hearing?

[Alex Russell]

I saw some random, like, website be like this. There was actually one that was like, all this music sounds like it's from the late 2010s. This guy has no idea how to make a modern thing.

[Host 2]

Damn. And nailed it.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. And it's like, do you email that person being like, it takes place in the late 2010s.

[Host 1]

Maybe there should be, like, a opening. Someone opens up a newspaper, you know, and says, like, yeah, just to really.

[Host 2]

Hammer that home for the morons.

[Alex Russell]

Well, there was. There was a point where I was like, let's put a chiron. Let's like, put 28.

[Host 2]

How is.

[Host 1]

Do they not know from all the VHS tape, camcorder?

[Host 2]

Yeah, how is.

[Host 1]

And the birria tacos that were in were smack dab in 2018.

[Host 2]

The periods with telegraphs a year. That's how you know it's a period piece.

[Alex Russell]

It's also like, someone for being like, oh, what is. Yes, in 2018. Right. Rather than it being everywhere.

[Host 2]

Sure. Okay, here's a question for you. Just real quick. Do you care how people see this, whether in theaters or on streaming? Does that matter to you? I know, like, what you'd probably prefer, but do you actually care, or do we just want eyeballs on this thing?

[Alex Russell]

I think I might have said that I didn't care a year ago, but the fact that it's playing theatrically and the fact that I can, like, sneak into an AMC and see real people watching it.

[Host 1]

You don't want to sneak in. You want the ticket sale.

[Host 2]

You got to buy your own.

[Host 1]

You got to put it on the.

[Host 2]

Company money back in your own pocket.

[Alex Russell]

Dude, by sneak and I mean buy a ticket.

[Host 1]

Oh, juicing the stats for sure. 17 tickets to Lurker, please. I heard this movie's great.

[Host 2]

Everyone go Sal. Rick Ross goes number one one. You gotta buy those ticks yourself, dude.

[Alex Russell]

There's something that is so much, like, more satisfying and rewarding than, like, you know, you work on a TV show, you get an email that says, like, hey, I liked this TV show. You don't get to see it with 300 people or a thousand people and they're, like, laughing. Huh?

[Host 1]

You got to get more friends.

[Alex Russell]

That's what this movie is about.

[Host 2]

Yeah. How to make friends and influence people. I just want to.

[Host 1]

I just want to watch Real Housewives with the homies.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, yeah, but see, like, seeing Random people. Yeah. Laugh or like lean in. It's like unbelievable. It's the best part of the.

[Host 1]

You see anyone on their phone, you're like, yo, pay attention.

[Host 2]

That's it.

[Host 1]

That's Entourage.

[Alex Russell]

No, no, I did. I did see one, like pull out their phone for a second. Then something happened and they were like, oh, let me lock it.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Are you a fan of people eating whole ass meals in the theater or not?

[Alex Russell]

I'm so glad you asked that.

[Host 1]

Let's talk about.

[Alex Russell]

Because that, that is an Alamo Drafthouse based question. Yes, I. I love those theaters. I do always hope that I'm not sitting next to someone having a barbecue. Chicken, pizza, a cheesesteak. I'm like, that is insane. The smell. It should be popcorn or like at most candy. It should be really candy.

[Host 2]

Someone getting shit faced next to you. Do you approve of that? Getting hammered during lurker that.

[Alex Russell]

You know, I. I saw get out at the San Francisco Alamo Drafthouse and it was one of the. It was one of the best theatrical experiences. It was so fun. I think I did have a beer.

[Host 2]

Oh, well, thanks for admitting that was big of you. You're an ally, but you had a beer.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Was it a black owned brewery?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Full ass meals. And what's your go to movie theater snack?

[Alex Russell]

Sour patch. I'm also like very kids with the watermelon. Gotta be specifics.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Alex Russell]

I prefer kids to the watermelons.

[Host 2]

All right, let's clip that out.

[Host 1]

Very anti Palestine of you. Got it. Got it. Okay, cool.

[Alex Russell]

What do you want to be eating them?

[Host 1]

Oh, do you want to be eating.

[Host 2]

Kids publicly is what you just said. Snacking on children.

[Alex Russell]

You can't. You can't win. Actually.

[Host 2]

No, it's. It's a God question.

[Host 1]

You do you a soda guy or you don't want to risk having a piss?

[Alex Russell]

I am a soda guy, but I'm also the. The big icy guy.

[Host 2]

Yes. Thank you. I love an icy.

[Alex Russell]

I did one of the Q and A's, One of those. And my heart was sure, bro, jacked.

[Host 2]

Up on that sugar.

[Alex Russell]

They like had kicked in right as like. Yeah. The question started, you must have felt like.

[Host 1]

Never mind. I'm not gonna say anything.

[Host 2]

I was gonna say you asked about cocaine. Same thing.

[Host 1]

No, but there's. I don't want to reference anything in the movie that I don't want to spoil anything.

[Alex Russell]

Well, I think this is coming out like.

[Host 1]

Oh, like, must feel like ma.

[Alex Russell]

This is like. This is like for people to stream.

[Host 1]

Yeah. On video demand.

[Host 2]

Now you have to Stream that dog.

[Host 1]

Okay, so I see. What about, like, if there's like a. If there's a big.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, either. Okay. I often go with the Coca Cola. But the red. What I've learned is that the red, they just, like, switch up what it's called and what. It's like an ip. It'll be like, whatever. It'll be like bad guys to red or whatever. But it's like the same cherry flavor.

[Host 1]

Do you get, like, the dune popcorn bucket?

[Alex Russell]

No, but I was. When I was at AMC doing a Q A, I was like, what would be the lurk.

[Host 2]

Yeah. What would be the promotional bucket?

[Alex Russell]

I guess it would be like a camera.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

Or something.

[Host 1]

Yeah. The lens is actually a flat light.

[Alex Russell]

That'll be.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

That would do numbers on one end and the other end.

[Host 1]

Yeah. They're just open for popcorn.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. We didn't think hard enough about these things.

[Host 2]

That's cool. I mean, that's for the.

[Host 1]

Were you involved with, like, the quote unquote marketing of this besides coming on throwing fits?

[Alex Russell]

Not really. Like, I got to see stuff and have a little bit of input. But the truth is, like, once you sell the movie.

[Host 1]

I got the check cash, bro.

[Host 2]

You're not.

[Alex Russell]

No, no, no. It's like you're. You're not necessarily. You don't have the final say on.

[Host 2]

On out of your hands.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

You got to write that to your contract on final sound. All nullity.

[Host 2]

Dirt bag memes, final cut on the meme pack.

[Alex Russell]

Wait, so what? That's a. What is that?

[Host 1]

What do you mean?

[Host 2]

You don't know what we're talking about?

[Alex Russell]

No, I do, but, like, what is the vibe of, like, nobody's dirt bag. It's one person.

[Host 2]

His name is Alex as well.

[Alex Russell]

Okay, cool. Do they have to, like. Do they have to, like the movie to, like.

[Host 1]

No, they have to, like, the amount of money they're being paid.

[Alex Russell]

Right.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

To compromise the integrity of the meme page.

[Host 2]

He actually canceled a dinner reservation that I was. I had with him to see Lurker. I remember the exact moment. Because he canceled on any.

[Host 1]

Because he had to.

[Alex Russell]

Because he had to.

[Host 2]

Yeah. It was work. It was work. He was chasing a bag.

[Host 1]

So Sour Patch Kids Red icy.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

No barbecue sandwich.

[Alex Russell]

Definitely not.

[Host 2]

No pulled pork.

[Alex Russell]

I would never do that.

[Host 1]

What type of movie would Alex Russell like to make next?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

It's not about Hollywood.

[Alex Russell]

No.

[Host 1]

It's not about your own lived experience.

[Host 2]

Hopefully not about fucking chefs.

[Alex Russell]

Who knows? I mean, I think the next one's about a man and a woman.

[Host 1]

Oh, okay.

[Host 2]

Pray tell. Anything else? You got anything else for us?

[Alex Russell]

I think I have to. I have to. A love story go hetero.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

It's very brave of you.

[Host 2]

Yeah. It's actually make movies hetero again. I agree. There's too much in this climate.

[Host 1]

You want to go hetero. That's very brave.

[Alex Russell]

But I. I think what, you know, after this is all done, it's time for me to. You know, I wrote this movie five years ago, so hopefully what I have to say now has evolved and matured and. And it was at the beginning of my writing career that I. Yeah. Wrote this movie. So hopefully I'm a better writer.

[Host 2]

The next one should be way.

[Alex Russell]

Hopefully.

[Host 2]

I did really enjoy Lurker.

[Alex Russell]

Thank you.

[Host 2]

You're welcome.

[Alex Russell]

I mean, it can only be better. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Let's manifest not just the movie. Next movie being better, but what's manifest, what actors you want to work with.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

As a director, we trying to.

[Alex Russell]

Do you have any idea.

[Host 1]

Trying to boss around.

[Alex Russell]

Do you have any ideas for the next movie?

[Host 2]

Charles Melton, I was gonna say.

[Host 1]

And me.

[Host 2]

We're available wages only.

[Alex Russell]

No, I would like to.

[Host 2]

I mean, I like that you can.

[Host 1]

Be our white servant.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Can you write a role for a white servant so I can serve James on screen, please?

[Alex Russell]

What is the movie about?

[Host 1]

I don't know.

[Host 2]

You're the writer, bro.

[Host 1]

It's not a man and a woman.

[Host 2]

No. Who do you. Who are. Who do you love right now? That's. That's working. That maybe that you would just.

[Host 1]

Again, Paul Mezcal. Come on, be original.

[Alex Russell]

Who. Honestly, my favorite actor is Steven Yen.

[Host 2]

Okay. Goaded.

[Alex Russell]

I. I think he's.

[Host 1]

I think also huge Swaggler.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

Actually his stylist was. Did our wardrobe. Oh, wow, look at that.

[Host 1]

Could we get Stephen on the pod?

[Alex Russell]

Huh?

[Host 1]

Could we get Stephen on the pod?

[Host 2]

Yeah. Can you text him first?

[Host 1]

Who's the.

[Host 2]

Who's the most famous person on your phone? You could text them.

[Host 1]

Chris Storer.

[Host 2]

Already been on the show. Cooper Wade.

[Host 1]

Who.

[Host 2]

Who is like the. Yeah, who is the. Who's the. A lister in the. In the context there's gotta be.

[Host 1]

It's Zach Fox.

[Alex Russell]

Well, dude, it is a. It is amazing how famous Zach actually is.

[Host 2]

He deserves it.

[Alex Russell]

Like, I feel like he probably gets stopped on the street more than like a. Who you would think is elementary Alone.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Host 1]

He's the most beloved man in America, I think.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. I mean, especially out of like, all the actors in my movie, which I guess are not. He. He is definitely the most recognized Globally. Like, we'll be in London and like, that can't.

[Host 1]

Yo. You DJed in an elevator. Wait, so you can't get a Steven Glenn. You guys aren't tight like that.

[Alex Russell]

I don't think. I don't think we are. We're cool. He came to the premiere, which was great.

[Host 2]

Who. Who's somebody that was. As a fan of Lurker that you were shocked to hear from that. Someone that, like, maybe reached out or threw a representative, whatever, and they were like, I'm a fan. Or I guess for any of your work.

[Host 1]

Who. Who shocked me.

[Alex Russell]

Charlie.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Letterbox review.

[Host 1]

She. Charlie Sheen. D'. Amelio.

[Host 2]

Oh.

[Host 1]

Xi.

[Host 2]

Oh.

[Host 1]

Xcx. Okay.

[Alex Russell]

Sorry. I guess I wasn't shocked.

[Host 2]

A fellow filmmaker, a peer of yours.

[Alex Russell]

Yes. She's gonna be in a lot of stuff.

[Host 1]

Rachel Senate just posted.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

That she was.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host 1]

That is kind of shocking to see James Harris pop up.

[Host 2]

What the jumps. How do they know me?

[Host 1]

So my friend told me that. Who I shared the link with. By the way, why is your name on this? Because I'm live streaming it.

[Host 2]

No wonder you need to ask for five links over.

[Alex Russell]

Three. Three.

[Host 2]

Yeah. We got screeners. We have not seen it. I believe neither of us have seen on the big screen yet. What's the screen situation like? New York?

[Alex Russell]

Where.

[Host 2]

Where's the invites at, bro?

[Alex Russell]

We're just in theaters, bro.

[Host 2]

Are there. There are no screening. You're not. There's no screenings happening for. For free. I mean, you know.

[Alex Russell]

Right?

[Host 2]

Yeah, that's. That's what I mean.

[Host 1]

You don't become a rich podcast without. Without being.

[Alex Russell]

Without saving money.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

Come on. Tickets.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

What's smarter, not harder?

[Alex Russell]

My dude's playing at Essex Regal right now.

[Host 2]

Oh, no.

[Host 1]

Oh, I love that theater.

[Host 2]

It is a good theater. You're gonna pop in while you're in town. You're gonna catch a. Catch a little flicky. Oli.

[Alex Russell]

I went in there last night just to see the, like, poster or whatever. Oh, that's cool.

[Host 1]

The best part about that theater is that the chairs are so comfortable, so easy to fall asleep.

[Alex Russell]

I really. It's great. I really want to, like, have a moment where people are walking out of the movie and someone's like, that sucked.

[Host 1]

You haven't gotten that yet.

[Alex Russell]

Well, that's what I was saying about seeking it out. Like, okay.

[Host 2]

Because I know. Interviewer.

[Alex Russell]

Because you know that at least some people have.

[Host 2]

You want to watch an interview is what you want.

[Host 1]

But the movie's really good. I don't. I think you'd be legitimately hard pressed to find that. Especially like people in our ilk and like strata of the. Of the world and like, you know, but every.

[Alex Russell]

Every movie there's people who are. Who hate it.

[Host 1]

Those haters. Okay, if you hated the movie, what's your email? What's your phone number? Text Alex.

[Host 2]

Yeah. How do you want to be in.

[Host 1]

Touch how much you hated the movie?

[Alex Russell]

They have to like make go. They have to make a video or something. Okay.

[Host 1]

Make a tick tock.

[Host 2]

Make an audition.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

They're gonna audition for hate. Yeah.

[Host 1]

What's. What's the Oscars fit gonna be?

[Host 2]

Come on.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Have you thought about that?

[Alex Russell]

That is so mean of you to say.

[Host 1]

Not for worker.

[Alex Russell]

Oh, for the one that does.

[Host 2]

For the. For the next. The next one. Well, maybe the one after you got.

[Host 1]

To make a movie about Hollywood and then I'll get nominated for everything.

[Host 2]

That one's your black and white movie about movies.

[Host 1]

Would you do all black? What do you do?

[Host 2]

Like.

[Host 1]

Are you a Tom Ford guy? Are you. What are you doing?

[Alex Russell]

Can I just say, I love Tom Ford's movies and I think he's a good filmmaker and I.

[Host 2]

Well. Nocturnal Animals.

[Alex Russell]

Nocturnal animals I love. I think it's. It has really stuck with me.

[Host 1]

I really liked a strange. A strange man.

[Alex Russell]

Single man.

[Host 2]

Single man. I mean, he's. Tom Ford's only made two movies.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

I think they're both. A queer man. No, a strange man. A single man.

[Host 2]

A queer man. Yeah. A strange.

[Alex Russell]

A gay man.

[Host 2]

You're saying single man. Well, just cuz he's gay doesn't mean him strange dude.

[Host 1]

Well, queer means strange.

[Host 2]

Maybe in your.

[Host 1]

Outside of the homos. Outside of the lgbtqia.

[Alex Russell]

You're getting that confused with the last Luca movie.

[Host 1]

Which one is that?

[Alex Russell]

It's called Queer.

[Host 1]

Oh, with. With Apollo.

[Host 2]

Gay James Bond.

[Host 1]

With his penis.

[Host 2]

Yeah, that's not really. It's his. Omar Apollo. It's not actually his penis. I don't think so. That'd be a nice hog. Maybe it is.

[Alex Russell]

I hadn't seen it, but Omar Apollo was in the conversation of who maybe we should go out to.

[Host 1]

For.

[Alex Russell]

For.

[Host 2]

For Ollie.

[Host 1]

Is he taller than Archie?

[Alex Russell]

Definitely. Definitely.

[Host 2]

We met him.

[Host 1]

He's tall as bro.

[Alex Russell]

He is.

[Host 2]

I think he's like. No, he's shorter than Alex.

[Host 1]

So tall.

[Host 2]

Huh?

[Alex Russell]

You can't be taller than Archie.

[Host 2]

All right, Omar Apollo, height, please. Please hold.

[Alex Russell]

But I remember. I remember seeing some tape of his for another movie and being like, he's pretty good.

[Host 1]

Who was Archie always the front runner to play Oliver.

[Host 2]

Okay, never mind. He's six.

[Host 1]

Six.

[Host 2]

At least listed, so.

[Alex Russell]

Okay. No, really?

[Host 2]

I don't remember him being very tall.

[Alex Russell]

So he is taller than Archie?

[Host 2]

I don't know. Here's a picture of him.

[Host 1]

He's the tallest Mexican of all time.

[Alex Russell]

Wow.

[Host 2]

All right. That's one way to describe them. Yeah. Who else was in talks that you can say that, like, in terms of, like, you know, picturing the movie happening differently? Who else do we got the question.

[Host 1]

That was just asked while he was looking.

[Host 2]

Oh, I'm sorry. Well, that's what you make. I can't do two things at once.

[Alex Russell]

I don't. I don't know. Like, back on track. I don't know if it's in bad taste for me to say, but, like, there was a. There was a time when we were. We were gonna cast real musician the weekend. There was a point when people were like, this will never get made unless you cast, like the weekend or something. Drake, like, so that I could have gotten. I could have gotten that forced on me in a way.

[Host 1]

Did you see Highest Lotus, Lowest?

[Alex Russell]

Not yet.

[Host 1]

The Spike Lee joint.

[Alex Russell]

How is it?

[Host 2]

Absolute stinker.

[Host 1]

Denzel's great. Rocky is not a professional actor.

[Host 2]

People are saying that Rocky is like. And also, by the way, Rocky's screen time is very limited.

[Alex Russell]

You hear? It's not like a two hander, but it's what one of these two hander.

[Host 1]

Is that what that is?

[Host 2]

The old two hands?

[Host 1]

We don't know that. We don't know the terminology.

[Alex Russell]

Pander is like lurker, which is like. It's two leads kind of.

[Host 1]

Oh, okay. Like, no, no, it's a Denzel. It's Denzel.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

Okay.

[Host 1]

And Dennis from Geico May or Mayhem.

[Host 2]

Tina fey's boyfriend from 30 Rock. 30 Roc.

[Alex Russell]

Oh, cool.

[Host 2]

Very. But Dean Smith, people are saying it's very distracting because they just know him as Mayhem. So it's weird that he pops up as a racist cop.

[Host 1]

I thought he's good.

[Host 2]

It's not. It's not particularly good. But Rocky, I think, is mixed. Mixed results.

[Alex Russell]

He's okay.

[Host 1]

No, it's bad. Okay. No, not good. What's your Aussie's fit gonna be? Come on, bro. Come on. I'm gonna show up like this again.

[Alex Russell]

How about, what's the Indie Spirits fit? The Gotham's Fit.

[Host 2]

Yeah. What's the Gotham's fit, bro?

[Alex Russell]

I think. I think I'd have to get the produce suit.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Or Cam Hicks to text P. Get that Louie.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Get the digi camo.

[Host 2]

You can do better than pro, which.

[Host 1]

Is featured in highest. The lowest.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

That text would go that far.

[Host 2]

What's that, Cam?

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, the cam text to P. That's.

[Host 2]

Why you cast it, right? For all the perks.

[Alex Russell]

No, man, I haven't capitalized on that yet.

[Host 1]

You really haven't.

[Host 2]

Did he. Did Cam, the mutual friend of the show Cam have to audition? Because he obviously has never acted before, as far as I can tell, right?

[Alex Russell]

Did. Yes. They definitely had to audition. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Alex Russell]

For sure.

[Host 2]

Cam had to.

[Alex Russell]

But it wasn't. It wasn't even just about could they play the part or not. It was like, could we.

[Host 2]

Work.

[Alex Russell]

Could we work well together?

[Host 2]

Because.

[Host 1]

Did you not know?

[Host 2]

Yeah. Isn't he the homie for. Or is he. Yeah. Okay. But you're just like, that's a friend. But I don't know if we could work together, dude.

[Alex Russell]

I was so afraid that, like, I was saying, I was like, maybe I'll show my worst self on set. And then I have, in a way.

[Host 1]

I want to boss around.

[Host 2]

My friend is so cool.

[Alex Russell]

All my friends are there to see me fail. Like, that was my big fear.

[Host 2]

Not there to see you fail, but they would. They would see you fail while they're.

[Alex Russell]

Exactly. And I chose to have them all there as an audience of my failure. That's risky. Yeah, it was risky.

[Host 2]

That's big of you, dude.

[Alex Russell]

But I think it was. I think it was a better version of me.

[Host 2]

He's. He's great.

[Host 1]

Next time you're gonna cast your parents and your siblings and your family, other people who.

[Host 2]

Whose opinions matter to you. Your crush.

[Alex Russell]

I did. I. I did, like, maybe overdo it in a way of just have, like, anytime there was, like, a small role, I'd be like, just so and so, you know?

[Host 1]

What about. Must have got lost as the lead Tyler, the creator. Oh, he's in the Josh Safdie ping pong movie.

[Host 2]

Yeah, I'm Marty Supreme.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, I'm really.

[Host 1]

He's in the ping pong streetwear movie.

[Host 2]

He.

[Alex Russell]

He. He also played a small role in that Jim Carrey show.

[Host 1]

In Living Color.

[Host 2]

No, Jim Carrey the narrator on the weekend album.

[Alex Russell]

No, Jim Carrey when he played, like, a depressed children show host. It was on the show.

[Host 1]

Oh, that didn't show time.

[Alex Russell]

It was pretty good. And.

[Host 1]

Well, then why didn't HBO pick it up?

[Host 2]

Yeah, why was it on Home Box Office?

[Alex Russell]

It's called kidding. Check. Check it out.

[Host 2]

You're making this up.

[Host 1]

No, thank you.

[Alex Russell]

Laptop right now?

[Host 2]

No, I'm good on that.

[Alex Russell]

Tyler is in that no, I'm straight, but he's good.

[Host 1]

He's good at Jackass.

[Host 2]

Loiter Squad. We're not even talking about Loiter Squad.

[Alex Russell]

I. I think ultimately it would have been really distracting to have someone like that or someone similar play this part, because the whole time you're like, is this that guy? And then once it diverges from, like, how they're perceived, you're like, is that really. Is this really based on them? Or whatever? Like, going through that calibration in your mind while you're watching this is.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Are you able to tell us what, if any, real life artists Archie drew influence from in his, like, character and his, like, I don't know, mannerisms and just his. His whole being.

[Alex Russell]

I. I think on screen he was thinking more about, like, actors he knows that are, like, larger than life or, like. Or like a Lordy. I. I don't know. I don't think you mentioned Barry, but, you know, as far as, like, playlists, like, for the music, it's everyone. It's like Dom Fike and Steve Lacy and, like, you know, those types of, like, 2018, bedroom, poppy. Yeah, Frank. And then Kenny. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Kenny. Frank is. I feel like there was a line at some point that. Where someone's like, you're not Frank Ocean.

[Host 1]

You wrote it, bro.

[Host 2]

There was a line at some point.

[Alex Russell]

It might have been an alt or.

[Host 2]

Like, I forgot, you're not Frank Ocean, bro.

[Alex Russell]

But, yeah, it was all those types of artists. And, you know, Kenny was just a he. I had barely had to talk to him about it. I was like, you know, in terms.

[Host 1]

Of making the music, yo, I was shazaming. It's a few of the, like, more like environmental songs.

[Alex Russell]

Oh, yeah.

[Host 1]

And not because I was like, oh, yeah. Kenny Beats made, like, you know, the pop music and, like, the rap and. And, like, whatever you hear in the background. But then, like, the actual original soundtrack, I was shazaming. I was like, I. With this.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Score's great.

[Alex Russell]

Did it work?

[Host 1]

What's up?

[Alex Russell]

Did it work? Shazamic.

[Host 1]

Yeah, bro.

[Host 2]

Shouldn't you. No.

[Host 1]

Kenny kills this.

[Host 2]

And even just the. The tunes, because that makes it believable that Ali is this budding star because the tunes are good.

[Host 1]

VHS by Kenny Beats.

[Alex Russell]

Oh, yeah. Well, that's just. That's score.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah, the score.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, the original.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Kenny killed it, my guy.

[Host 1]

That's cool.

[Alex Russell]

Works for the.

[Host 2]

With something like Kenny, who's the homie?

[Host 1]

After music.

[Alex Russell]

Do we have it?

[Host 1]

Do we have the right.

[Host 2]

We don't. We don't have right.

[Host 1]

We the right to this.

[Host 2]

No, we don't.

[Host 1]

This is hard.

[Host 2]

What kind of friends and fam deal does Kenny get to. Because obviously he's in high demand. But your homies, like, like, could you like, is to me, I'm like, almost like, if you're not homies, you can't afford Kenny. Right? Am I crazy? And to. To think that it's like you came.

[Alex Russell]

Up off that for sure.

[Host 2]

Transactional friendship.

[Alex Russell]

No, you see, in the movie, I'm sure that it just. It so wasn't about the money. I think it was good for you. Yeah, good for me.

[Host 1]

He's like, this is never gonna get made here. Just take some. But trash.

[Alex Russell]

Now he's. I think I can maybe say this go off.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

But now he. He is doing the score for the Rachel Senate show.

[Host 1]

So I think I love la.

[Alex Russell]

You know, doing. Having this.

[Host 1]

Oh, bro.

[Alex Russell]

Legitimacy.

[Host 1]

Oh, money. That's how you make it as a musical artist.

[Host 2]

Built that his resume.

[Alex Russell]

I'm. I'm sure that the money he's getting from HBO is hidden. Is more than we paid him.

[Host 1]

Okay, well, presumably we'll never know.

[Host 2]

Couple M's.

[Host 1]

Alex, besides kidding. The Jim Carrey vehicle on Showtime. What TV shows are you watching right now?

[Alex Russell]

Game of Thrones for the. Sir, Are you serious?

[Host 2]

For real?

[Host 1]

Where are you at?

[Alex Russell]

I'm in season three.

[Host 2]

Do you like it so far?

[Alex Russell]

I think I do. I think it's.

[Host 1]

Well, I hope you do, because you're probably. You put in like 90 hours of TV already.

[Host 2]

Dude, at the ending, they function.

[Alex Russell]

No, that's what I heard. But, like, the. The end. The house season one ends was insane.

[Host 1]

Are you studying?

[Host 2]

Are you watching Wedding or.

[Host 1]

No, Ned Stark. It's.

[Host 2]

Sorry, that's what I. Yes, right. Sorry. They all blend.

[Host 1]

Are you. Are you watching this at tv?

[Alex Russell]

Right?

[Host 1]

Like, wow, Cliffhanger. The end of season one, I gotta try that.

[Alex Russell]

Low key, yo.

[Host 1]

Incest rocks. Gotta try that.

[Alex Russell]

Well, wait.

[Host 2]

Try it or write it?

[Host 1]

Write what?

[Alex Russell]

You know, I might be like, what's my version of incest kill? Like, killing off Ned Stark, you know, game of. And how. How did they build to that expectation? And how did they.

[Host 2]

Spoiler alerts, by the way.

[Alex Russell]

But it's like there's a moment in Lurker that is inspired by the end of season two. Succession. What was the.

[Host 1]

What's the end there?

[Host 2]

Yeah, what's the end of Succession Season 2?

[Alex Russell]

It's. It's when Kendall goes up there and he's been kind of tailed between his legs the whole season and Then he's kind of like, my dad knew.

[Host 1]

Oh, it's after the. It's after the yacht.

[Alex Russell]

The press conference.

[Host 1]

Yacht episode when. So he's a sacrificial lamb. Then he comes out. He's like, no, actually, he's like, actually.

[Alex Russell]

It was my dad. And then it cuts to Logan, and Logan is just, like, watching the tv, and you'll be able to understand what I'm talking about. Logan's watching the tv and he should be pissed, obviously, but his mouth just, like, twitches into a. Maybe a smile, and you're like, is he, like, proud of his boys?

[Host 1]

Finally.

[Host 2]

He finally did it.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

I raised a dog.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

So, you know, you shouldn't have to. You could probably guess what moment that.

[Host 1]

Okay, so you really. You really have your finger on the pulse. You're watching Game of Thrones.

[Host 2]

Bro. Yeah. Dude. Sick. Okay.

[Alex Russell]

That is funny. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Should check out a little show called Mad Men. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Kind of massages. You're not watching Hacks?

[Alex Russell]

I mean, Mad Men is the best. I haven't. I haven't seen.

[Host 2]

You never seen Mad Men?

[Alex Russell]

No. Hacks, Dude, Mad Men is my favorite show.

[Host 1]

I was a five feet away from John Ham at the US Open yesterday.

[Alex Russell]

I saw him at Sundance. Yeah. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Look at his dick.

[Alex Russell]

We were at the. We were at Tao together.

[Host 2]

Accidentally Bronson.

[Alex Russell]

I was like, what is my life? I hope we sell this movie.

[Host 2]

This can't be the peak.

[Host 1]

I want to be a towel every night with Jon Hamm, maybe.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Honestly, Jon Hamm in an Alex Russell production.

[Host 1]

All right, so you've never seen Hacks Alex Russell. What else? What are the other fucking TV shows that are, I guess you are defined? You don't watch the zeitgeist. You write the zeitgeist.

[Alex Russell]

Wow.

[Host 2]

Sick, bro.

[Host 1]

What do you actually do as a producer on the Bear? Or is that just a glory title you got after you wrote Forks, the.

[Host 2]

Best bear episode ever?

[Alex Russell]

So it's just. That's just. Obviously, producer can mean a bunch of different things, but for TV writers, it's just a credit that you get to after being in it for a certain amount.

[Host 2]

Promotion.

[Alex Russell]

So it's.

[Host 1]

You get more money.

[Alex Russell]

Yes. And awards and more in some cases, like, of a say. Okay. Like, if you're an EP writer, like.

[Host 2]

Throw your weight around.

[Alex Russell]

More of a say. Okay. But if not the way. It's like, there's like, eight levels, and you start at staff writer, and then, like, eventually you get to producer.

[Host 1]

What if cousin was incompetent? Have we tried that? So what if Jeremy Allen White was pissed.

[Host 2]

Okay. So you could throw your weight around. That's good.

[Alex Russell]

You'd be great in the writers or. I know, like Cooper. All it is actually is like basically saying, what if this.

[Host 1]

Yes, yes.

[Alex Russell]

And that. That's. That's what makes it so different from yes. Movie.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alex Russell]

It's like you have to say what it's going to be because the movie.

[Host 1]

Is a closed loop, whereas a TV show could potentially run ad infinitum until it shits the bed on the.

[Alex Russell]

No, no, serious. What I mean is, like, if I'm in a writer's room and I'm one of the writers, I'm just saying, what if this for someone else to decide on if that's a good idea or not? And it's not to me, whether it's the idea when you're making. When if you're the director of movie, you can't look behind you at all. You have to be like, well, it's going to be this.

[Host 1]

Was there ever a moment in directing where Fog. I am in way over my head. I wish I had someone to, you know, fall back on, throw out a hypothetical.

[Alex Russell]

No.

[Host 1]

You were locked in the whole time in the captain's seat.

[Alex Russell]

Well, it's just I had so many great people around me who did really know what they were doing. Right. So it was able to be a fashion. All these.

[Host 2]

Leave the ideas to me.

[Alex Russell]

I didn't even have. I didn't have to, like, it was like the train was moving. Like it was going. Like the actors could act. You know, the DP shot the movie.

[Host 1]

Make it sound easy as hell. Boy.

[Alex Russell]

I think. Well, it really is mostly about hiring and casting, which are, to me, the same thing.

[Host 2]

Gotta build the roster, dude. Gotta have a good team.

[Host 1]

Between the Bear, Beef and Dave, which one has the most fun writing room?

[Alex Russell]

Depends which season you're talking about.

[Host 2]

Okay. What was.

[Alex Russell]

But I was.

[Host 1]

Beef has one season.

[Alex Russell]

We've done two.

[Host 2]

Yeah. The second one's come. The second one's done.

[Host 1]

You've done the second one.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

So what was the most fun season of what show that you like, that exists in your.

[Alex Russell]

I would probably have to give it to Dave season one just because it was my first job and it was in person. So a lot of these ended up being zoom rooms because of COVID But being. Being in that room and being like, I was like the only person in my 20s in that room, so I was like the runt and people were down to, like, teach me stuff. It was. Dude, it was the best. It was like. It was also my dream to have this job, so I wasn't jaded yet.

[Host 1]

That's also the most straight up comedy. I mean, I guess the Bears Chuckler comedy.

[Alex Russell]

Or is it.

[Host 1]

I don't know, but Dave is like a zany ass.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Dick Joe comedy.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah. That's the one where if you say the most outlandish thing, like, it could end up in the show.

[Host 1]

Did you have to. Did you see little Dicky's dick at all? Yeah, like, I think you have to see it.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He showed me a picture of it.

[Host 2]

How is it?

[Alex Russell]

Crazy.

[Host 2]

On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being very up, 1 being your penis just slightly up.

[Alex Russell]

You're saying mine is perfect.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah, I know your dick is definitely perfect.

[Host 1]

I'm sure from the platonic ideal of penis.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Just a normal.

[Host 1]

A normal dick to burn victim.

[Alex Russell]

So I don't totally remember what it looked like, but it was. What I do remember was that he showed me a picture of his dick and then a picture of tacos Dick Travis. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Like, next to each other.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, it was like two phones or something. Like, this is like two phones, one for the day. This is like my first. Basically my first real experience in Hollywood.

[Host 1]

Was your first experience getting sexually.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

As you say.

[Alex Russell]

And he was like, look, you know, look at the difference here. And laughing and damn, how beautiful of.

[Host 2]

A dick does Travis have?

[Alex Russell]

I don't really remember either, but you're.

[Host 1]

Really not paying that much attention, bro.

[Host 2]

You're peeping meat. You're peeping famous meat. You got to file this away.

[Alex Russell]

If I'm really.

[Host 1]

The most important thing about being a writer is. Is observation.

[Alex Russell]

Being able to. Being able to envision. Yeah. I don't know.

[Host 1]

So Taco's penis, I imagine, is beautiful and perfect. And then I mean, that the contra. The humor's in the contrast. Right. Where then little dickies dick has, like, weird holes.

[Alex Russell]

Imagine. You have to understand I'm recalling images, not seeing the. In a real thing.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, I would definitely be able to describe your penis.

[Host 2]

The fourth doors.

[Alex Russell]

I'd be able to describe something I've seen in real life. I mean, even like zoom rooms and stuff like that. Zoom meetings. Like, I just forget people are showing.

[Host 2]

Their penis on zoom. And you don't even remember.

[Host 1]

You were on the call with Jeffrey Tubin.

[Alex Russell]

Dude. I have this, like, ongoing bit that's not really a bit about wanting to do basically that being my next movie is like, Jeffrey Tubin, Tubin. Like, the first scene is the tubin moment. It's like what happens for the rest of life.

[Host 1]

I mean, he got his job.

[Host 2]

This is kind of like he's.

[Host 1]

He's good.

[Alex Russell]

But like. But like I don't learn anything about it. I don't do any research. I just imagine. Exactly.

[Host 2]

The Nick Cage movie is kind of like this, where he's the professor, the disgrace professor. It's not exactly the same, but it is kind of like. So it's about cancel culture.

[Host 1]

Kind of. Wait, he's in.

[Host 2]

He.

[Host 1]

Nick Cage is sex talk about Nick Cage.

[Alex Russell]

Are you talking about dream scenario? Yeah. Okay.

[Host 2]

Is that.

[Host 1]

Does he get cancel. Everyone just has sex dreams about it.

[Host 2]

Oh. And that's why he gets cancelled because of the dream scenario. Right, right, right, right. Or soft cancelled because he. Yeah. Okay.

[Alex Russell]

That is maybe the best title and premise.

[Host 2]

Dream scenario. Yeah, it's great.

[Alex Russell]

I. I like of like the last five years.

[Host 2]

Well, so you know, it is Nick Cage movie, so I don't know.

[Host 1]

You know, it is lurker and National Treasure.

[Alex Russell]

Look. Title.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

I would say Bad Lieutenant Lurker is a good title because it sounds like a movie that already happened in that it's like kind of like an obvious idea. Yeah. And it has two meanings. And what are the two.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

What go off, you know? Well, one is sort of the traditional meeting and one is the online meeting.

[Host 1]

Oh, I'm like. You're just. You're passively in the chat, Right.

[Host 2]

A lurker. Yeah. Okay, interesting. That makes me think of Nightcrawler, which is kind of like a little bit of inspiration, right?

[Alex Russell]

Definitely.

[Host 2]

Do you like when people are like comparing whether it was like James on top of the Ripley me saying Nightcrawler, you said Almost Famous. Like, do you wearing your influences on your sleeve, is that like a new generation of filmmaker thing where it's like not afraid to be like.

[Alex Russell]

No, I don't think it's new. I think it's always been happening. But it. I think in my case it's like I. I'm super down when it is actually an influence. I'm happy to talk about that, but I don't like it when it's not.

[Host 2]

Oh, like a movie that you haven't even seen.

[Host 1]

When people put the influence on.

[Alex Russell]

I haven't seen. Or it's like. It's like pe. Like, obviously, like a lot of stuff of this subject matter has come out in the past few years.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

And people don't know. I wrote this movie in 2020.

[Host 1]

What came out? What are some. What are some? We don't have to name them.

[Host 2]

Yeah. I mean, it's.

[Host 1]

I'll do my own research. I'll do my own research.

[Host 2]

I think there was one that might have. We might have had the friend of ours. Right. Director. Also on this program. Just in terms of proximity, celebrity and obsession. You don't know what I'm talking about. Okay. Never mind. The audience will know.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

But. Yeah, I get what you're saying.

[Host 1]

All right.

[Host 2]

Like these.

[Host 1]

Let's ask an actual question. Movie. Who's on your way in Mount Rushmore?

[Host 2]

Here it is. You've had all time to.

[Host 1]

We've had an hour and 44 minutes.

[Host 2]

To think about all this time.

[Alex Russell]

That's how long we've been talking.

[Host 2]

What does it feel like? Longer.

[Alex Russell]

Way shorter.

[Host 2]

Okay, good. That's good.

[Host 1]

If only. Listen to Kanye west all day for 24 hours. Felt this short.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Callback.

[Alex Russell]

Okay, there's one I'm immediately thinking of, which is the girl from pen 15.

[Host 1]

Oh, my skin.

[Host 2]

She's so funny.

[Alex Russell]

She's on that show. So.

[Host 1]

It's so good.

[Host 2]

It's incredible.

[Host 1]

It's sadly over.

[Host 2]

Yep.

[Host 1]

Because now she's doing Amazon tv.

[Alex Russell]

Who. Who else is there?

[Host 1]

Charles Melton.

[Alex Russell]

Keanu Reeves are reclaiming Keanu. Is he. Is he actually.

[Host 1]

Or he's just like.

[Alex Russell]

Or he just. Look, we've been asking that for. If he is. Obviously. He's the whole Rushmore.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

Everyone gets kicked off.

[Host 1]

Doesn't Zack Fox have a little Pinoy in him? Am I making that up?

[Alex Russell]

Pause. No, he's fully making.

[Host 2]

He's a black man.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Maya was also Mr. Mrs. Smith. I forgot about that.

[Alex Russell]

Okay, who's the.

[Host 1]

Who's the Pittsburgh wide receiver?

[Host 2]

Heinz Ward.

[Host 1]

Hines Ward. Half Korean.

[Alex Russell]

Not on my Rushmore.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Alex Russell]

Who. I. I'm really blanking on. So just, like, throw them out. I'll tell you.

[Host 2]

Throw them out.

[Alex Russell]

Wait, wait. Google half Asian people.

[Host 1]

James Harris. Olivia Munn. Christina Chong. That's a Definitely not a real person. Vanessa Hudgens.

[Alex Russell]

Her.

[Host 1]

The Artist. Chanel Iman.

[Host 2]

John Cho. No, that's just a famous Asian. Whoops. I have my.

[Host 1]

Bruno Mars. Dwayne the Rock Johnson. Nami Osaka.

[Host 2]

Olivia Munn. Smoke?

[Host 1]

No. No one. Darren Criss.

[Host 2]

Jennifer Tilly.

[Host 1]

Meg Tilly.

[Alex Russell]

Jennifer.

[Host 1]

Yo. Mark. Paul Gosselier. The Gosler. Gosler. Zach Morris from Saved by the Bell. He's got to be out there.

[Alex Russell]

Damn.

[Host 1]

Are we really that underrepresented?

[Host 2]

This is.

[Alex Russell]

I feel like there's so many.

[Host 2]

It's got. I mean, Keanu.

[Alex Russell]

Right?

[Host 2]

For sure. Oh, Steve Aoki.

[Host 1]

Damn.

[Host 2]

Charles Mellon.

[Host 1]

We said Stephen Yuan is, according to AI, half Asian.

[Host 2]

No way.

[Alex Russell]

Really?

[Host 1]

I don't know.

[Host 2]

I thought he was full.

[Host 1]

So it was John show. According to Google.

[Host 2]

AI, John Show, Harold. I thought he was full. So of all the names we threw out there, anyone jump? Anyone scratching that itch for you?

[Alex Russell]

No. So far it's only Maya.

[Host 2]

So it's you, James Harris, Maya, Russell and Keanu.

[Alex Russell]

You and I can't be on it.

[Host 2]

Come on. Why can't James be on it?

[Host 1]

We can have beyond.

[Alex Russell]

Okay, James is on it.

[Host 1]

We can half be on it.

[Host 2]

That's your fucking problems.

[Host 1]

Can be on it.

[Host 2]

LA changed you, dog.

[Alex Russell]

Why do I feel like there's some that we're not thinking of that are.

[Host 1]

Because they've been erased from our collective memory because of racism.

[Host 2]

Is Hapa. Is that like just what? Is that a specific slurp? No. Is that a specific type of Asian? No.

[Alex Russell]

Wayan is a specific kind of Hopper.

[Host 2]

Janae Aiko.

[Host 1]

Vanessa Hudge.

[Host 2]

Jason Momoa. Mean.

[Host 1]

Olivia Rodrigo.

[Alex Russell]

There you go.

[Host 2]

Oh, Olivia Rodrigo for show.

[Host 1]

Kimora Lee Simmons, Shannon Elizabeth.

[Host 2]

No way I'm seeing Keanu. Like, official per Google.

[Alex Russell]

Her.

[Host 2]

The artist.

[Host 1]

Her. Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

H E R. Damn, we're washed.

[Host 1]

We got work to do. We got work to do. Alex, now, this is not that bad. Yo, this is why you gotta platform half Asian actors, bro.

[Alex Russell]

It's just four Maya's. Yeah, that's three Maya's. One James Harris.

[Host 2]

Yeah, no Keanu. We're not gonna put Keanu, not John.

[Alex Russell]

If we can claim Keanu, he's on the list, bro. AI or.

[Host 1]

Yeah, but his name's Keanu Reeves. He's definitely half Asian.

[Alex Russell]

Okay, we're claiming him then. Keanu, Maya, James Harris, Alex Russell, Janae.

[Host 1]

Aiko, and Maya again. Okay, Alex, as you've become a big Hollywood swinging dick and you've made all this money, what's a dumbass purchase you made recently?

[Host 2]

A Urus. What do you drive?

[Alex Russell]

Tesla 20.

[Host 1]

Oh, before he went crazy.

[Host 2]

You got the bumper sticker.

[Alex Russell]

I hate that bumper sticker.

[Host 2]

It's embarrassing.

[Alex Russell]

It's like, just sell the Tesla. Just. Yeah, burn it or makes it more embarrassing.

[Host 2]

Not that I even think it. Tesla's embarrassing.

[Alex Russell]

It's also making everyone think about.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Alex Russell]

Elon. When they just were driving.

[Host 2]

Yep. Inception for show.

[Host 1]

Yeah, I will say, I wish there was an option on Uber to not get an Uber or. Sorry. Not get a Tesla as a. In the back. It's so uncomfortable.

[Alex Russell]

I think it would be a watch.

[Host 2]

Was the wait because you're Barry got bare wristicles right now. What are we talking about? What was the watch?

[Alex Russell]

It's a vintage Rolex.

[Host 2]

Birth year?

[Alex Russell]

No, 2000.

[Host 2]

What model?

[Alex Russell]

Rolex datejust.

[Host 1]

Are you a watch guy?

[Alex Russell]

Good. I'm trying not to be, but I kind of am.

[Host 2]

Was it gold?

[Host 1]

How come you're not wearing it?

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, it's. It's at the hotel.

[Host 2]

Oh, why didn't you.

[Host 1]

Oh, the streets of New York are a little too dangerous for. For a big director when he's not locked up in.

[Host 2]

You've been watching too much Fox News, bro. You can wear the Rolex in the streets.

[Host 1]

Oh, I can't take the subway. I gotta. I gotta take my Tesla.

[Alex Russell]

That would probably be the dumbest. Although that's.

[Host 2]

Did you get it? Did you get it? To remind yourself of a success was like a celebratory.

[Host 1]

Where you came from.

[Alex Russell]

I got it when I got into Sundance.

[Host 2]

Yeah, you gotta apply to get into Sundance to sell the movie.

[Alex Russell]

Yes.

[Host 2]

And your first. And your first idea was to blow a bag on piece of horological before it sold.

[Alex Russell]

You watch. Yeah, when I got into Sundance, dude.

[Host 1]

What if the movie hadn't sold or it bricked and you were just stuck with a watch that you don't wear? The pod, the fashion podcast.

[Host 2]

It's a financial instrument. You can sell it again, make your rent.

[Alex Russell]

The movie. Selling or not selling does not have a huge financial impact on me. Let me tell you. Let me tell you an agency story. Yes, sure. Every year I go into WME and my team is there women in marketing and entertainment. And I go to the whiteboard and I write down these are the things that I'm trying to do next year. And last year I wrote all this lurker stuff at the top. Hopefully we get into Sundance, all this stuff happens. Blah, blah. The second row was TV stuff. Hopefully I do this isn't that rooms or whatever. And the third one was stuff I'm writing for other people. And my agent was like, you should change the color of the TV row to green because that's the only one where you're going to be making money.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Alex Russell]

And so I did.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Alex Russell]

It's. It's true. The other stuff is like part of the. Part of it. But like I said, I spent five years trying to get an indie movie made.

[Host 1]

So you bought your movie watch with TV money?

[Alex Russell]

No, I. Well, yeah, at the time, yeah. But retroactively.

[Host 2]

Oh, retroactively. Okay. Now we're.

[Host 1]

And that's why the system's all up.

[Host 2]

So the watch was a Dumb purchase. Anything else that you'd like to lambast yourself for publicly?

[Alex Russell]

I feel like it's not a dumb purchase. Diversification.

[Host 2]

Yeah. It's an investment for sure. Keep telling yourself that.

[Host 1]

I'm bearing my.

[Alex Russell]

And watches as he's got the huge sub on his face.

[Host 2]

It's a sea dweller, dumbass. Hey, hey. Don't quit your day job.

[Host 1]

It's because he saw Trump was in the Rolex box.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Alex Russell]

It's a watch identification. Yeah, no, I won't. What should I. Now would be the time I could.

[Host 2]

Horse.

[Alex Russell]

Dude.

[Host 1]

A new car, easily.

[Alex Russell]

New car. Yeah, new car. What. What kind?

[Host 2]

Urus.

[Alex Russell]

The Urus. I kind of think the Urus is like a beautiful.

[Host 1]

Get a vintage. Get a vintage Bronco, bro.

[Host 2]

Vinti Bronski.

[Host 1]

Vinti Bronski would be so sicky.

[Host 2]

What's like the.

[Alex Russell]

What's the number one Bronco?

[Host 2]

What's the.

[Host 1]

No, don't get the.

[Host 2]

What's the ultimate douchebag mobile right now in la? Is it like. Is it some type of vintage Porsche?

[Host 1]

Vinti Land Cruisey.

[Host 2]

Vinti Cruisey.

[Alex Russell]

It's definitely the cybertruck.

[Host 2]

Oh, you should get a cyber.

[Host 1]

You get a cyber truck and you.

[Host 2]

Should get a custom wrapped. Maybe like joker themed would be cool.

[Host 1]

Put alert. Have someone spray paint worker on it.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Free marketing dog. You gotta think, you gotta think. You gotta work hard.

[Alex Russell]

I feel like a lot of the cybertruck are like wrapped in some kind of.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Or have like an advertisement.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Like everyone's looking at the cyber truck.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Blue Lives matter theme type thing or.

[Host 1]

Yeah, everyone's looking the cybertruck. All right. Successful.

[Alex Russell]

You can't get the cybertruck and then put the anti Elon thing on it because, like the cybertruck came out so recently.

[Host 1]

Well, actually, that's not true because there was before he like went full right wing crazy and. And doge and everything. You could put a deposit.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

On a cyber truck. Like five years ago, they shot it.

[Host 2]

With the gun and it exploded.

[Alex Russell]

That's true.

[Host 2]

But it's like, you know, that whole thing, that fiasco.

[Alex Russell]

Remember?

[Host 2]

He was just a dumbass. He wasn't. He did the guy.

[Host 1]

He did the cyber truck and he did the atv and Travis Scott was like the first person like the cyber truck, ATV and the flamethrower.

[Host 2]

Yeah. He was just a then and a loser. He wasn't also like a fascist, you know? Yeah, that was a pivot.

[Host 1]

That came later. Last question for you, Alex. We talked about how you received feedback and notes. We would Love to pick your big Hollywood rate on some feedback notes for us. What's some constructive criticism you'd like to give us now that we spent two hours together? 1/12 of the time you spent in the closet listening to Kanye west all day.

[Host 2]

You're successful, so we respect you. So hit us.

[Alex Russell]

I. This was so fun. I. I wouldn't.

[Host 2]

No, no, it's really. Come on, dude.

[Host 1]

This is longer than worker feature length.

[Alex Russell]

You're not gonna put it out this long.

[Host 2]

Yeah, we don't.

[Host 1]

We don't edit anything.

[Host 2]

No. Unless you want us to edit it. I mean, we'll edit out all the.

[Host 1]

N words that you said earlier.

[Host 2]

Everything that I said that was off the cuff.

[Host 1]

All the H words you said.

[Host 2]

Hopa.

[Host 1]

You can't say that.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. We could call that a slur.

[Host 2]

Damn.

[Alex Russell]

I'm kind of mad that we. I didn't figure out the Rushmore.

[Host 2]

Whatever, bro.

[Host 1]

It's. There's no. You know what? It's waging people's fault for not being good enough.

[Alex Russell]

Yeah, but Keanu, if we.

[Host 2]

Him. Yes, well, he said that.

[Alex Russell]

Dude, I heard Future is Korean.

[Host 1]

You know who has. Who's a Google it.

[Host 2]

No, I mean, he. Look, Meryl Streep's not Korean, so doesn't Google Future.

[Host 1]

Danny Brown is a quarter. Why is everyone making me.

[Host 2]

Why am I the Google boy?

[Host 1]

This Danny Brown is a quarter. Filipino.

[Host 2]

Future rapper, Korean. Question mark.

[Host 1]

So is Guap dad 4000?

[Host 2]

Yeah, Guap is Toro.

[Host 1]

Imo has some Asian in him.

[Host 2]

All right, the. There's speculation online and rumors suggesting that the American rapper Future has Korean heritage, though it is not confirmed.

[Host 1]

He's just high all the time.

[Host 2]

It only gained traction because in Atlanta, there's. In Atlanta, there's a significant Korean and Korean American population.

[Alex Russell]

It's true. Yeah, We.

[Host 1]

You know, the LA riots happened, and then we all got together. All right.

[Alex Russell]

Oh, yeah. Sorry, Alex.

[Host 1]

Criticism.

[Host 2]

Oh, yeah.

[Host 1]

What do you give us any.

[Host 2]

Any notes?

[Alex Russell]

You always do this.

[Host 1]

It's all the edit. It's all in the edit.

[Host 2]

Only for people we respect. Wink.

[Alex Russell]

What has been one. I feel like you've taken it all now. It's perfect.

[Host 1]

Oh, we take it all every week, baby.

[Alex Russell]

I don't know.

[Host 2]

People are like. They're like, be less smart and less handsome because it might alienate the guests type.

[Alex Russell]

Maybe you need to add some type of, like, hot wing element or chicken shop element.

[Host 2]

You need. Which one?

[Alex Russell]

Put an element that sort of like.

[Host 2]

So just makes the pro.

[Alex Russell]

Makes it crazier and crazier and crazier. Throughout the thing.

[Host 2]

We should have had chicken and crazy.

[Host 1]

We should have had you eat your manager's halal plate.

[Host 2]

That was a. That's a crazy choice. You gotta be chilling with him in the. He's gonna be farting in the Uber. Farting in the Tesla.

[Alex Russell]

What would your version of like adding some kind of gimmick to it? What would that be?

[Host 1]

You have a loaded gun and you keep adding one more bullet to the.

[Host 2]

Chamber I've potted with.

[Alex Russell]

And it's.

[Host 1]

And it's a real good.

[Host 2]

Like the deer. Like Deer Hunter. We'll do like Russian roulette. Pod style.

[Alex Russell]

Russian roulette with like a paintball gun. Like, would be kind of fun.

[Host 1]

That would suck.

[Host 2]

Hot ones. But the hot ones are bullets in the chamber of a revolver. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Someone is always.

[Alex Russell]

And it's just you guys.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

There's literally. There's always the idea of cold ones. We have to shotgun a beer after every question or whatever.

[Host 2]

Potted like that though. And it does not go well for anybody.

[Alex Russell]

You've tried that.

[Host 2]

Just being shit face on the show. Yeah, it's terrible. Yeah, it's really bad. It's bad. It's bad. It's not good.

[Alex Russell]

You want. You want sort of a substance that would make people sharper.

[Host 2]

Cocaine.

[Host 1]

The limitless pill.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Adderall.

[Host 1]

We should be.

[Host 2]

Dude.

[Alex Russell]

Okay. Limitless is amazing.

[Host 2]

Yeah, of course.

[Host 1]

What's your criterion for.

[Alex Russell]

Or whatever. The letterbox floor.

[Host 2]

What's your top four? Letterbox. What's your top four?

[Alex Russell]

I think I have. I.

[Host 2]

Let's see.

[Alex Russell]

I think they're on.

[Host 2]

I follow. Alex, should we see. Oh, should I quiz you or do you know off top?

[Alex Russell]

I think I know what they are. They shift around a little bit. Force majeure is on there. Is your letter box on there?

[Host 2]

Amadeus Scream. We talked about Amadeus. Whiplash, I think is an influence for this movie a little bit.

[Alex Russell]

Definitely Gattaca. Oh, yeah. Gattaca.

[Host 1]

That's a pretty.

[Host 2]

This is like your film, bro. This is like a very film bro.

[Alex Russell]

Top four. Because I feel like I'm. I'm too. Because you have the mainstream.

[Host 2]

No, you have the mainstream one with whiplash. You have the foreign film. You have the well respected deep cut. Amadeus won eight Academy Awards. And then Gattaca is kind of like my. Oh, remember Gattaca? Yeah, this is. But it's a good top four. I approve. I'm more.

[Host 1]

More approved.

[Host 2]

Spiritually posted.

[Alex Russell]

They're all about white guys trying to prove something.

[Host 1]

Oh, damn.

[Alex Russell]

I just noticed. What the. Bro.

[Host 1]

You should Make a movie.

[Alex Russell]

Social Network would be the fifth one.

[Host 2]

Of the greatest movies of all time.

[Host 1]

Seven year piece.

[Alex Russell]

Exactly. We didn't talk about that. That's a note.

[Host 1]

But that was by accident because this took so long.

[Host 2]

What was the other one? What's the other one you referenced?

[Host 1]

You wanted to wait until 2025.

[Alex Russell]

I think. Whatever. Whatever it ended up being. I was gonna make it. That age gap. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

What's the other gap?

[Host 1]

Seven years.

[Alex Russell]

Seven year age gap.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Totally acceptable. What's. What was the other one that you referenced?

[Host 1]

I read this.

[Alex Russell]

Gems.

[Host 2]

Oh, Uncut gems.

[Alex Russell]

Gems.

[Host 1]

Oh, the gems that are uncut.

[Alex Russell]

Yes.

[Host 1]

Fire. Also about a white guy just trying to impress a pog.

[Alex Russell]

Well, I guess.

[Host 2]

The only. Who's the only person worth impressing, right?

[Alex Russell]

Mount Rushmore.

[Host 1]

Pogs, yo. Mount Rushmore, 2018.

[Host 2]

Julia Fox, Alexis, Texas, probably. Who else?

[Alex Russell]

Damn.

[Host 2]

That's how really you want to get? You really want to play this game?

[Alex Russell]

I really want you to.

[Host 1]

That's a constructive criticism. Stay tuned for the bonus content where we will for sure do goated pogs. Alex Russell, what would you like to plug? Where can the kids follow you?

[Alex Russell]

I would like to plug the movie Lurker.

[Host 1]

Yes. In theaters and on streaming now.

[Alex Russell]

Honestly, if you listen to this podcast, you will like the movie.

[Host 1]

Agreed.

[Host 2]

I think 100.

[Alex Russell]

I think I could say that.

[Host 2]

100 agree.

[Alex Russell]

Do you, like. Do you, like, hate him?

[Host 1]

What?

[Alex Russell]

Do you guys, like, hate him?

[Host 2]

No, no, no.

[Host 1]

That's just entered the cultural lexicon.

[Host 2]

Cream's been on like you knew the. Right. Like you got the reference. Like, Kareem's been on the show.

[Host 1]

What's your take? Workers sick.

[Host 2]

100 agree. End of episode.

[Alex Russell]

What would be your take if you went on that show?

[Host 1]

I think the monetization of takes has ruined democracy.

[Host 2]

Condiments should be refrigerated.

[Alex Russell]

Those are. Those are good.

[Host 2]

Thanks.

[Alex Russell]

That was.

[Host 2]

I mean, I would probably think of a better one for the show.

[Alex Russell]

Yours is like, this should end.

[Host 1]

When we were asked to go on that show and we declined, that's what we would have said.

[Host 2]

To be. To be fair. It was.

[Alex Russell]

When every week they. They beg you to do it again.

[Host 2]

No, no, to be fair, we were invited before it became the cultural phenomenon. I would like to go on now. At the time, it fell beneath us.

[Host 1]

Of course you would.

[Host 2]

Okay. All right.

[Host 1]

Ghosting lurker. Alex Russell, thank you for coming onto the only podcast matters. Catch Lawrence on subway Take soon. This has been another episode of the only podcast matter. Chef, take us out.