Throwing Fits — The Avery Trufelman Interview

Release Date: October 20, 2025
Guest: Avery Trufelman, host and producer of Articles of Interest
Theme: The deep entwinement of military, outdoors gear, and fashion, and the complexities of American influence in global dress and style.

Episode Overview

In this lively, sarcastic, and in-depth conversation, the Throwing Fits hosts welcome back Avery Trufelman to discuss the upcoming season of her podcast Articles of Interest. The new season focuses on the intersection of military and outdoor clothing, exposing the surprising, often uncomfortable links between the U.S. military, the outdoor industry, and the evolution of “American” style. Avery breaks down everything from performative masculinity in men’s fashion to Stolen Valor, the economics of Gore-Tex underwear, and why America’s legacy might be its blue jeans.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Avery’s New Season: Military x Outdoors x Fashion

• Main Topic: The season investigates “the intersection of the military and the outdoor industry, and they are deeply, deeply, deeply interwoven.” (15:11)
• Surprising Discovery: While the military’s influence on fashion is a known talking point, Avery found that the outdoor industry’s connection is just as central—and often hidden—in menswear and technical apparel.
• Scope: From the 1800s till now, with emphasis on how clothing technology, aesthetics, and American geopolitics are entwined.

2. The Research Process and Journey

• Avery wears many hats—writer, producer, interviewer, and editor—for her own podcast:

  “I would rather just put that pressure on myself than someone.” (01:27)

• She went to eclectic places, including military costume warehouses, military contracting trade shows (“all these tanks and guns… I cried every night”), zipper factories, and the actual US military’s fashion department—uncovering both the inspiration and pragmatics of clothing design in these environments.

3. Military Surplus, Stolen Valor & Style

• On wearing military pieces:

  “As a civilian who has no skin in the game, think it’s great… I’m appropriating both Pakistani and military culture right now. I’m the problem.” (51:48)

• Soldier’s perspective: Some see civilians wearing military garments as “boot” (a try-hard, hardo), but generally, civilians are encouraged to enjoy the style, as long as they don’t pretend to be soldiers.
• She recalls that in the 1970s, military surplus became a symbol of protest and solidarity—something potentially relevant again.

4. Authenticity, Performance, and Masculinity

• The appeal of military/outdoor gear is about “performing masculinity” and practicality—but also status and aligning oneself with certain ideals (intelligence, sacrifice, individuality).
• The hosts and Avery debate performative “gearing up” as central to Brooklyn cool, outdoorsy brags, and even protest movements.

5. American Clothes as Global Empire Legacy

• Avery posits that American clothes (jeans, field jackets, Ivy style) might become the lasting footprint of American cultural dominance—comparable to language spread by past empires:

  “The lingering effect of the American empire will be… everybody wears American clothes all over the world.” (19:00)

6. The Military-Industrial/Fashion Complex

• Manufacturing: U.S. Barry Amendment requires military gear to be American-made, sustaining some domestic textile jobs.
• Commercial crossovers: Outdoor brands like Outdoor Research, Arc’teryx LEAF, Danner, Gore-Tex, etc., are actively supplying both Special Forces and civilians—sometimes hiding their military contracts to preserve granola/progressive branding, which Avery criticizes.
• The “cool” aesthetics of Special Forces trickle down as fashion, with civilians coveting the same gear.
• Sometimes, military clients are described as “shitty”—they pay less and contracts are volatile.

7. Innovation: The True Military Inheritance

• The military and outdoor industry co-invented “layering,” fundamentally shaping modern clothing systems (76:11).
• American military first used systematic scientific testing to develop functional clothing, leading others to follow.

8. Existential Questions & Contradictions

• Avery wrestles with her own stance on militarism and fashion, landing at “awe… not gratitude” for how much our infrastructure, tech, and style are enmeshed with military history:

  “If you don’t come to it with some sort of reverence, you’re not going to understand how grand it actually is.” (50:49)

• The season is steeped in the dilemma: “Do we need war? … I want to protect [the soldiers], but I don’t want to have to need [the war]…” (48:27)

Memorable Moments & Quotes

Fit Checks, DMs, and Origin Stories

• Tyler, the Creator sent Avery Golf le Fleur socks after listening to her Ivy season.

  "He slid into my DMs, and he sent this to me.” (06:29)

• Pakistani camo shirt, vintage Banana Republic safari shorts, old Belgian loafers—Avery brings up how these all stem from military or exploration origin stories.

Military Fashion Department

• On the US military’s fashion department:

  “It looks like a fashion school… They all went to fashion school.” (24:31)

Military Conventions: A Surreal Experience

• “I got to play with guns. The tanks… unmanned AI like, drones. I cried every night it was horrifying.” (27:00)
• Reflecting on industry hypocrisy:

  “Everybody’s there. Your phone carrier was there. The airline you fly on is there… everybody’s in a piece of this.” (41:12)

Layering Is Military Tech

• “The military invented layers. Holy–…They hired Eddie Bauer, Leon Leonwood Bean…” (76:11)

Special Forces Become the Influencers

• “The funny thing is there's like, this fashion cycle because everybody in the military is like, oh, my God, the special ops guys, they're so cool… They're the influencers.” (93:22)

On Multicam Camouflage and Scorpion

• “So I asked the folks at the government, I was like, so what do you think of multicam? And they were like, well, you know, we helped make that.” (96:32)

“Boot” Culture and Stolen Valor

• Civilians in camo: “There’s a term for it in the military which is boot, which is if you're, like, really gung ho about the military stuff… they're like, don't be boot.” (55:07)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:38 – 01:45 — Avery on being a one-woman podcast army, perfectionism, delegation.
• 02:07 – 10:02 — Deep-dive “fit check,” including camo shirt origin, Tyler, the Creator anecdote, Belgian shoes.
• 13:28 – 15:00 — Why Avery avoids Instagram & the transactional side of fashion media.
• 15:11 – 20:09 — Why military and outdoors gear are so deeply entwined—setting up the new Articles of Interest season.
• 21:13 – 22:37 — The “three archetypes” of American menswear (Ivy, military, cowboy) and their symbolic meanings.
• 24:10 – 26:55 — The U.S. military’s fashion department, Annette Lafleur, and performance-driven design.
• 27:00 – 35:23 — Military trade shows, Special Forces as trendsetters, the economics and challenges of U.S. textile production, factory visits.
• 39:59 – 41:34 — Military symbols, “chicks dig it” factor, and why companies hide military contracts.
• 48:27 – 50:44 — Wrestling with the ethics of military fashion, soldier/veteran perspectives.
• 56:07 – 57:28 — The history and power of military surplus as protest wear and its potential comeback.
• 58:12 – 62:21 — Why guys “gear up”: gadgets, dominance over nature, the American shopping/kitting-out impulse, and psychology behind outdoor-ready fits.
• 76:11 – 77:59 — The invention of “layering” by military-outdoor collaboration and its modern relevance.
• 91:48 – 98:01 — Multicam, Cry Precision, Scorpion camo, and the murky world of military R&D and IP ownership.
• 109:02 – 115:18 — State of podcasting: narrative decline, doing it solo, pride vs. legacy, Rolling Stone’s all-time podcast list.
• 116:17 – 109:34 — Plugs: The new season of Articles of Interest, ways for listeners to support Avery, and how to follow.

Notable Quotes

• “The lingering effect of the American empire will be… everybody wears American clothes all over the world.” (19:00, Avery)
• “The military invented layers.” (76:11, Avery)
• “The cool thing is, like, even though there's a designer, at the end of the day, if a general wants it—If a high ranking general wants it, it still happens.” (88:17, Avery)
• “It did make me understand… I think it's okay to like, make jackets for, for soldiers. I really think that's fine. And I really don't want them to get hurt and I really want them to be safe.” (39:40, Avery)
• “If you don't come to it with some sort of reverence, you're not going to understand how grand it actually is.” (50:49, Host)

Tone & Style

The conversation is quick-witted, self-aware, and both critical and affectionate about fashion’s relationship to history, politics, and masculinity. Avery is thoughtful, curious, and open about intellectual dilemmas, while the hosts keep things lively, teasing each other and their guest with running jokes (including “fit checks,” “stolen valor,” and “boot” culture).

Further Information (Plugs & How to Support)

• Articles of Interest's new season debuts October 22 (2025), focusing on gear, the military, and the outdoors.
• Follow Avery on Substack or her website (as she remains off Instagram, but responds personally to emails from listeners).
• “Venmo Avery” jokes—listeners are encouraged to support independent journalism.

Recommended for anyone interested in:

• Fashion history, military gear, and outdoor technical clothing
• The politics and ethics of design & production
• The subtle, sticky ways American identity is exported worldwide

(Ads, intro, and outro excluded from this summary per instruction)