The Chantal Fernandez Interview with Throwing Fits

Summary

Throwing Fits Podcast

The Chantal Fernandez Interview with Throwing Fits

Release Date: July 6, 2026
Guest: Chantal Fernandez (Features Writer, The Cut)
Hosts: James & Claude (Throwing Fits)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Throwing Fits welcomes Chantal Fernandez, features writer at The Cut and co-author of the recent book on Victoria's Secret. The conversation dives deep into the current state of fashion and lifestyle media, the evolution of female and male content creation, the power and culture of VICs (Very Important Clients) in luxury fashion, Chantal’s reporting process, the “newsletterification” of media, and plenty of inside dirt from her career spanning Fashionista, BoF, and The Cut. Chantal, James, and Claude navigate industry gossip with their signature blend of self-awareness, humor, and pointed curiosity.

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Table of Contents

• Episode Highlights & Key Discussion Points
• Notable Quotes
• Key Segments & Timestamps
• Memorable Moments
• Thematic Takeaways
• Links & Further Information

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Episode Highlights & Key Discussion Points

1. Intro & Fit Check (00:45–05:40)

• Chantal details her podcast fit: Arket shirt, Citizens of Humanity pants, vintage Prada shoes (from resale), Tory Burch tote, Jaeger-LeCoultre Reverso watch (resale, post-book treat), Tiffany’s wedding ring, necklace from her husband, grandmother’s ring, Aerie undergarments ("Victoria’s Secret competitor").
• Reflections on the label “grown dirtbags,” podcast maturation since inception, and evolving personal style.

2. From Trade Media to The Cut: Audience & Editorial Strategy (05:44–08:59)

• Chantal’s shift from BoF (“inside baseball”, paywalled) to The Cut (“real people...shopping for Lululemon and wondering why things changed”).
• Metrics for story success at The Cut: engagement, time spent, comments.
• Personal essays and vulnerable, emotional content get major traction; most viral recent topics include relationship/friendship drama and difficult social realities (e.g., ending a friendship over Ozempic/GLP-1 use).

3. Luxury Coverage, VICs & Industry Dynamics (09:47–19:59)

• Explaining the world of VICs: the real high-spending luxury customers driving much of the top 40% of luxury sales.
  • Intensive research—DMing, tracking attendees at events, personal shopper/brand associate insights.
  • "70% of sales come from 40% of shoppers" (14:49).
• Brands increasingly cater to these customers with special events, trips, and personalized experiences, shifting away from targeting aspirational entry-level shoppers.

4. Trends in Fast Fashion, Sustainability, and Collaborations (21:13–27:23)

• Discussion about the gray area between fast fashion and mainstream retail (“Is Uniqlo fast fashion?”), and the dominance of Shein as a disruptive force.
• Reflections on brands like Everlane and Gap dealing with realities of consumer expectations, pricing pressures, and the difficulty of sustainable practices.
• “Collab fatigue” in fashion—signature designers (Galliano, Clare Waight Keller, Zach Posen) jumping to mass-market partners.

5. Newsletterification & Media Evolution (34:34–47:22)

• Rise of newsletters and comparison to blog era: “It feels like just another version of that...focus on individual voices in fashion and their experience.” (44:41)
• Power and limitations of affiliate links, the arms-race for newness and recommendations, and the pressure on writers/content creators to “pitch their stories to themselves.”
• Strategist-style editorial vs. influencer newsletters: value in process, testing, and editorial comparison vs. one-off influencer “authenticity.”

6. Female vs. Male Content Creators (48:06–49:27)

• Women creators tend to be less corny, but the willingness to turn family/life into content is both Black Mirror and extremely aspirational for Gen Z/Alpha.
• Social media and parasocial pressures shaping the economics and expectations of content creation.

7. Editorial Process, AI & the Challenge to Writers (53:37–57:07)

• Chantal’s creative process: pitching, editing, collaborative team dynamic at The Cut.
• Impact of AI: some use for research and press releases, but little influence on storytelling at The Cut to date.
• Media's struggle as people “don’t read,” with Instagram-meme-magazines and headline-skimming on the rise.

8. Fashion Media State of the Union (57:19–58:09)

• Chantal: “I still love it. If you think it's dumb, when that flip switches...you gotta pack up and go. I’m glad I’m not writing about politics.”
• Enthusiasm wobbled during COVID, but the chaotic, irrational nature of fashion keeps things exciting.

9. Career Journey & Victoria’s Secret Book (78:50–81:30)

• Experience co-writing Selling Sex with Lauren Sherman.
• Why Victoria’s Secret was the perfect lens on US retail, fast fashion, and both power and collapse in the industry.
• Reporting surprises: Victoria's Secret’s legal gray-zone product testing; Wexner, Epstein, and the oddities of American retail magnates.

10. Fashion Trends & Fit Critique (66:07–77:18)

• Trends Chantal wants to see die: skinny silhouettes/khakis in the real world, butt-wipe tees making a comeback, pandemic-warped workwear.
• What she wants to see more of: Paul Mescal-style rugby short shorts (“There's something freeing about it...short shorts and maybe a wired headphone. That's what came to mind.” [74:57])
• Jean shorts (jorts) are “out” for women, “played” in the men's world.
• Men at least need to be wearing actual jeans again.

11. The Future of The Cut, Newsletters & Media Aspirations (68:21–74:47)

• Chantal enjoys stepping back for long features versus chasing the newsletter grind.
• The Cut continues to leverage its identity as a women’s magazine, resisting calls for a “Cut for men.”
• Importance of team support and editorial collaboration in producing industry-shaping journalism.

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Notable Quotes

• On The Cut’s audience:
  “The audience is like real people who are shopping for Lululemon and wondering, ‘Why did this change?’” – Chantal (06:08)

• On VICs (Very Important Clients):
  “It was some crazy stat where it was like 70% of sales come from 40% of the shoppers.” – Chantal (14:49)

• On fashion’s emotional core:
  “Personal essays are really vulnerable that you don't read anywhere else. It's kind of like from another Internet era that we're still doing.” – Chantal (08:56)

• On collabs and the state of trends:
  “I thought we had sort of reached a fever pitch of that with Virgil, and now I feel like it's even crazier...I wonder if they're going to run out of steam.” – Chantal (27:16)

• On the newsletter phenomenon:
  “I don't think it's a fad and I think it's more connected to like the blogger era than maybe we think it is. It feels like just another version of that.” – Chantal (44:41)

• On fashion media’s existential crisis:
  “People don't read. Like sometimes even on the comments on an article, I'm like, oh these people didn't read it right?” – Chantal (53:38)

• On creative director musical chairs:
  “I'm a little tired of the like, creative director debut wars and... the musical chairs... Let's just see it. I can't keep up with all sources tell me this person might go here.” – Chantal (30:07)

• On the men’s style zeitgeist:
  “It's pretty fragmented, which I think is both good and bad. I think it's like post, post, post hypebeast.” – Claude (42:35)

• On what men should wear:
  “Short shorts and maybe like, a wired headphone. That's what came to mind.” – Chantal (74:57)

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Key Segments & Timestamps

| Topic | Timestamp | |------------------------------|--------------| | Fit Check | 00:53–05:44 | | The Cut vs. Trade Media Audiences | 05:44–08:59 | | Viral Stories & Editorial Success | 08:00–09:47 | | VICs ("Very Important Clients") Deep Dive | 13:15–19:59 | | Fast Fashion, Sustainability, Collabs | 21:13–27:23 | | Newsletterification of Media | 34:34–47:22 | | Female vs. Male Creators | 48:06–49:27 | | Editorial Process, Comments, AI | 53:37–57:07 | | State of the Media/Fashion Media SOTU | 57:19–58:09 | | Career Highlights & Vic Story | 78:50–81:30 | | Victoria's Secret, Wexner, Epstein | 81:30–87:49 | | Trends to Retire, Fit Advice | 66:07–77:18 | | The Cut, Newsletters, The Future | 68:21–74:47 |

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Memorable Moments

• Personal Fit Check: Chantal’s run-down, including the story behind her Reverso watch (bought post-book as a treat) and her validation of Arket (00:53–04:38).
• VIC Reporting: The anecdote about a $500k/year client being dropped from a luxury brand over a "too high ponytail" (19:10), showing how taste policing trumps even the most lucrative shoppers.
• Discussion of “fit regret”: Chantal’s candid admission to regretting her recent eBay bag purchase due to its "musky" smell (98:08).
• The “park sweatshirt” phenomenon: Breakdown of an indie influencer brand that creates feverish demand among sorority-adjacent Gen Z (73:31).
• Victoria’s Secret “tag switching”: Shocking reporting insight that VS would buy other brands’ products, swap tags, and test in stores—a quick-and-dirty R&D tactic (81:27).
• Best career hit: Devil Wears Prada Inflation Index (39:37–40:37).
• Podcast Glow-Up: Reflection on ten years of the show, why they left traditional media, and how men’s fashion media has evolved (62:14+).

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Thematic Takeaways

• Fashion Media is in a Constant State of Flux: From blogs to newsletters, trade media to personality-driven editorial, the landscape is more fragmented than ever—but the hunger for strong individual perspectives endures.
• VICs Drive the Luxury Market: The super-consumer is more influential than ever, and brands both cater to and police this group with a mix of adoration and distaste.
• Collaboration (and Collab Fatigue): Big-name designers moving to lower-priced collaborations are both a survival strategy and a symptom of changing industry economics.
• Newsletterification is Not a Fad: It’s a new iteration of the old blogosphere, but with better monetization for those who can command a parasocial following—or who test 30 mattresses at a time.
• Content Creation is Gendered—and Shaped by Platform: Women’s fashion content is less "corny" (per Chantal), but creators dive deeper into transforming all aspects of life into currency. Men’s style media is fragmented, often more trend/meme-driven, and deeply informed by platform incentives.
• Everyone’s a Critic, Nobody Wants to Read: The memeification and Instagram-magazine era miniaturizes reporting and rewards hot takes and visuals, making in-depth media harder but still necessary for cultural impact.

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Further Information

• Chantal Fernandez on The Cut
  cut.com
• Book: Selling Sex (with Lauren Sherman), published by Henry Holt

Contact Chantal:
Instagram/Twitter: @chantalfdz

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For more Throwing Fits: throwingfits.com

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Transcript

[James]

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[Claude]

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[Claude]

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[Claude]

Our guest this week is coming straight out the bullpen and going multimedia on your ass. Switching up from written features to the spoken word. When she's not dropping books, investigating just exactly what Victoria's hiding, she stays penning razor sharp insights that stay in the cut. Like Neosporin. From big tech slimy tentacles seeping into fashion to the weird influence of Vic, she's one of just a few keeping the industry in check. How she's unloading the New York mag. Here to chat female content creators versus male content creators, the newsletterification of lifestyle media. And yucky, she found out. Reporting on Victoria's Secret, features writer for the Cut, Chantal Fernandez. Chantal, how the hell are you?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Hi. Hello, gentlemen. Thank you for having me.

[Claude]

Gentlemen.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Gentlemen.

[James]

Thank you, m'. Lady.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I felt bad calling you boys, but I guess you guys are goddamn boy.

[Claude]

Yeah, we're four year old boys.

[James]

Yeah. This is an adult mature conversation.

[Chantal Fernandez]

You guys have grown. You're. You're sophisticated mature now since you started the podcast.

[Claude]

I mean, she's got a point. Our first ever episode was called Snapchatting.

[James]

Whole picks from Dave and Busters.

[Claude]

From Dave and Busters.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Wow.

[James]

I think that was him who did that.

[Chantal Fernandez]

It was like a scene report or.

[Claude]

Yeah, yeah, we were in the hole. All right.

[James]

Speaking of reports, Chantal, real quick, can you do a little fit check for us and tell us everything that you wore to podcast today?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay. I am wearing a shirt from Arquette. Do you guys know that brand which I would love would be sold here, but is not so I got it when I was in Milan recently.

[Claude]

Are they Italian or French?

[Chantal Fernandez]

It's like an H and M. It's basically costs but slightly different. Maybe like a little more feminine. All right, these pants are from Citizens of Humanity. My shoes are Prada vintage.

[James]

Let me peep those dogs.

[Claude]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

From 2018, I believe. Is that a r. No, that's a resale situation. Yeah.

[Claude]

What about the jewel? What about your little shirt, your overshirt?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, my over shirt. I also got this from Aret. That was from. They had a Leila Goar collaboration. They do fun collaborations there. I got, like, Penny Martin stuff there a few years ago.

[James]

Not familiar. Nope.

[Chantal Fernandez]

She the gentlewoman editor, right?

[James]

Yeah. The most gentle of all the women.

[Claude]

Yes, exactly.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Gentlemen and gentle women.

[Claude]

You should know a gentle woman.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, exactly. My. My tote bag is from our book publisher, Henry Holt, who published our book about Victoria's Secret. Okay.

[Claude]

Me and Lauren Sherman of interest or what's going on?

[Chantal Fernandez]

There's a good toe.

[James]

You got paid in free merch.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Free books.

[Claude]

What about the actual bag?

[Chantal Fernandez]

The actual bag is Tory Burch that I bought many years ago and still use a ton. I feel like handbags. I. I are in a tough spot. But we can talk more about how

[Claude]

back is Tory Burch? Because I feel like we see friend of the show, friend of the pod, Liana, you know, doing her thing with them, and, like, it feels like there's always a trend piece. Like Tory Burch back how back? Truly, Ms. Birch, I think I. I

[Chantal Fernandez]

really feel it in more than, like, a fake industry way. Like, I feel people are. It's not just sub stack, even though it really feels that way. Right.

[James]

Number one red flag that it's fake. You read an article on Substack about

[Chantal Fernandez]

it, you know, where it's like an engineered marketing thing. I do think people are talking about it more. And the product is, like, looks so much better.

[James]

Last year, sports popped off too, right? Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Tory Sport. I mean, that was there before. I think everything that she did, she sort of, like, overhauled the product. Um, like, I want to say, kind of as the pandemic was starting. So it took a little while to catch on. But I'm. I'm pro. Tori. Yeah.

[Claude]

Helps have a billionaire husband partner. Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

But now he works for her.

[Claude]

Oh, look at that. 20, 26.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Wel is back.

[James]

EO over there.

[Claude]

What about the timepiece?

[Chantal Fernandez]

This is ja Le. If that's pronounced correctly, yes. I bought this for myself. It's a reverso after the book was published.

[James]

Oh, that's a nice little treatment. You can put that thing down, flip it, and reverse it, right?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Exactly. Yeah. I don't have anything on the reverse. The real fancy people have, like, a watch on the back. But I just.

[James]

We can resell this because it's not engraved or whatever. So in case, you know, I mean,

[Chantal Fernandez]

I bought it on resale.

[James]

Let's.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Let's be honest. But it looks great.

[Claude]

What about all the jewels on the. Up here?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, this is a necklace my husband got me when my baby was born a year ago.

[James]

Push press.

[Claude]

Okay.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, a little push press.

[James]

Congrats on the sex.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Thank you. Thank you so much. Earrings. I can't remember, to be honest. It's like I wear earrings and I never take them off for like a year or so. Yeah.

[Claude]

Rings.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Wedding ring is from Tiffany's. Wow. I haven't thought about that.

[James]

Very nice.

[Chantal Fernandez]

And then this ring, which is fun, is from my grandmother. I don't know.

[Claude]

And the Bron panties.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Bron panties are from Aerie, Victoria's Secret competitor. Oh, that's like the American Eagle lingerie slash loungewear.

[Claude]

The Cindy Sweeney. Yeah, no, that's Siren.

[Chantal Fernandez]

So Sydney Sweeney is. She does, like, jeans for American Eagle and then she has her own. Yes.

[James]

Conflict of interest.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Sure. Yeah. I'm sure you guys have tried Siren jeans, right?

[Claude]

The best jeans.

[Chantal Fernandez]

The best jeans.

[James]

The best. I feel like Harry's like, they advertise on the subway.

[Chantal Fernandez]

They advertise on the subway. And their whole thing was like, no retouching. And I think they still do that. Okay.

[James]

Wow. Salute to that one.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Real.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. So I was.

[Claude]

I thought of that using AI.

[James]

All right.

[Claude]

Fit check complete. Thank you. Let's get into the meat and potatoes. Chantal is the Cut. The last truly great entity in fashion media.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I mean, I would certainly say so, of course, but I'm. I'm not biased at all.

[James]

Yeah.

[Claude]

How long you been there?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Not very long. Like two and a halfish years.

[Claude]

That's pretty long.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, I was. I took a. A little beat because I had the baby. But, yeah, it's been really fun. And, like, I spent a lot of time at business of fashion work, which I loved, but it was trade focused, so it's nice to kind of not be so inside baseball. And the audience is like real people who are shopping for Lululemon and wondering, why did this change? You know, so that kind of stuff.

[James]

Do real people not read BoF? Because that's how I feel sometimes as like, someone who maybe has a foot in both worlds, where I'm like, what does this mean?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I have met real people who read BoF, but, like, it's. It's pretty significant paywall, so you have to be, like, very interested.

[James]

You gotta charge that to your employer. For sure.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. I think it's like several hundred dollars per year. Because it'. It's like, it's like. Yeah. Do you what?

[Claude]

Just like read. That'll be on WWD and 20 minutes later.

[James]

Probably better than WD.

[Claude]

What? See their Instagram graphics? What's either BoF500, no trip on my shoulder. What's up with that?

[Chantal Fernandez]

You guys are not on the bot.

[Claude]

How do you. How do you.

[Chantal Fernandez]

But weren't you guys featured in a BoF story all the time? Yeah, I interviewed you, I think several times for BoF.

[Claude]

How much do we have to pay BoF to get on?

[James]

It's insane, dude.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I think it's just merit. It's merit based.

[James]

So. So Jeff Staple.

[Claude]

Jeff Staple can be on the BLF 500, but Jimmy and Larry, that's. Can't make the cut.

[James]

You're punching down, dude. That's not fair to. That's, that's, that hurts.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I don't know. I no longer. I mean, even when I was there, people would always ask me, like, how to get on BF100 and I didn't really have a great.

[Claude]

More power.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Like forwarded the email.

[James]

You did. There wasn't like some internal voting mechanism?

[Claude]

Okay, what do you tell them? Like, be more powerful, do better.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, I think I was like, I hear you. I'm here for you. I hear you. That's a lot of what I say to publicists is like, I'm receiving.

[James]

I see.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I'm here to hear you.

[Claude]

So people pitch their clients.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Claude]

Wow.

[Chantal Fernandez]

So I think you guys should pitch Imron.

[Claude]

What's his name?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Imron. Yeah, Imron.

[Claude]

Imron. You're on notice.

[Chantal Fernandez]

That's gonna help.

[James]

Well, don't to POF on the cut.

[Claude]

What story on the cut always goes crazy in terms of like, engagement. How. And how do you guys measure a successful story? Is it like clicks, shares, clicks, time

[Chantal Fernandez]

spent engagement, all of the classic internety things.

[Claude]

And what always hits for the cut?

[Chantal Fernandez]

It's usually like a. A personal essay or something about relationships or friendships. Those that really, like, hit on kind of a brute. I feel like that's what the Cut really does well. And with the fashion stories too, the ones that do really well, it's like they hit an emotional. They press emotional buttons and say something that people have been thinking about but maybe haven't read, and then they really like. I don't know if you've ever looked at the comments on the cut. They're like, oh, are they short novels? No, no, no, no. I mean, some of them are of Course. But like, on the actual website, people are writing, you know, 500 words responses job.

[Claude]

Are they trying to like, low key apply for a job on the cut?

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, no, no. I mean, a lot of times they're criticizing or they're engaging with the ideas are like, this happened to me. It's really interesting.

[James]

So saying the quiet part out loud usually goes crazy. It's not like salacious, like scandal, but

[Chantal Fernandez]

it's maybe someone being vulnerable about themselves like that. Personal essays are like, really vulnerable that you don't read anywhere else. It's kind of like from another Internet era that we're still doing.

[Claude]

There's always that one type of essay where it's kind of like the person putting themselves out there. Like, it's like, why would you do that? You know, that you're putting yourself out there in a way where you can just get destroyed by all corners of the Internet because you're, you know, oh, I was struggling, so my parents paid my mortgage and did it.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I like, I don't think we've published that one exactly. But yeah, it's like stories. I was like. The one that really got people recently was a woman who ended her friendship with someone because she was taking ozempic or glp1s and she was like in recovery from her eating disorder and felt like she had to like, cut this friend out of her life. So that was really polarizing with people. But I think, you know, that probably spoke to some people.

[James]

Yeah.

[Claude]

How does the manosphere and like the looks maxing stuff do?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, we kind of look at that stuff from afar. But since we're really for women, we are also like, what are men doing? And then we kind of. What are men doing?

[James]

You don't want to know.

[Claude]

That Peptides article, was that the cut?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I think it was. I don't know which where in New York mag it ran, but it was like a mag story.

[Claude]

Okay.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[James]

Are there beef between. Between the verticals? Like, you know, like. Like you guys are probably all in the same bullpen. Is there competition for. I wanted this story or this source or.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Matthew Schneier.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. We wanted to review that restaurant. I don't know. Not in my work, but maybe.

[James]

Yeah, maybe someone less successful that you work with is like.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Or more like on the celebrity side, you know, it's like fashion.

[Claude]

Can you rank the cut? The New York mag verticals. Just your personal favorites.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Just the cut. Number one.

[James]

Yeah.

[Claude]

And then what's number two?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Curbed Me, I probably personally read. I don't know now I read a lot of it, but before I worked here, I read the Cut and Vulture the most, and now I really like bop around, but. Yeah, there's just, like, crazy things happening all the time.

[James]

It really is, like, the best if you're gonna spend money and. Yeah, like, paywall stuff, I think that.

[Claude]

Pay for it.

[James]

Yeah, my wife does, so we share.

[Claude]

Okay.

[James]

Okay.

[Chantal Fernandez]

What's your. You rank them.

[Claude]

Vulture.

[Chantal Fernandez]

You like.

[Claude]

Vulture for me, is at the bottom, maybe Grub street number two. I do like Curb because it's very like, New York Intelligencer. Intelligencer. Is that right? Sure. I don't know. Am I missing any Curb?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I don't think so.

[Claude]

The Cut's always number one.

[James]

You did a. What is the food diary that you did?

[Claude]

Crate.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, yeah. That's so fun.

[Claude]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

That's very cool that. That has clout.

[Claude]

What? Really?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. To do a crumb.

[James]

Why do you think he did it?

[Claude]

Yeah, why didn't you do one?

[James]

They didn't ask me.

[Claude]

He doesn't eat.

[James]

I'm a real eater in a different regard.

[Claude]

He doesn't eat.

[Chantal Fernandez]

You don't eat?

[James]

No, I do eat. I eat.

[Chantal Fernandez]

That's just like, protein powders or what?

[James]

Yeah, something like that.

[Claude]

What? What, what? Stories on the Cut tend to brick, but, like, you have to cover them anyway. But, like, no one gives a about them.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I don't know if no one, but, like, sometimes six people give a about them. When we cover sometimes more the luxury stuff, it's just a smaller audience because, you know, most people are not shopping for Chanel, but there is kind of like a voyeuristic interest. Like, I did a video story about standing in line to buy the first Matthew Blasey collection, and that did crazy. Well. I was kind of surprised, but, like, an announcement that he was appointed did, like, kind of like, that sort of news.

[James]

The trade.

[Chantal Fernandez]

It's not like that. Yeah, the trade type stuff.

[James]

You got the bof.

[Claude]

Wait, what was it like standing online? What are people like?

[Chantal Fernandez]

It was amazing. I met this incredible woman there. I actually, like, want to take her to lunch. She was so funny.

[James]

She'll pay for it.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Head to toe. Head to toe. Logos, like Chanel, Jean, everything. And it was really cold, so we were kind of like, freezing our butts off. But then it's like, you realize these people are all ready to shop, but we're sort of the peasants of luxury shopping because we're standing in line to begin with. Like, the real people. Not Vic or not V. I see. Yeah, I guess not Vic aren't like the real people, the stuff is brought to their house. Like, we're waiting in line, I want to say, for a couple of hours, and people are bringing the bags out and just putting them into cars.

[Claude]

Brian boy is just fucking making content outside.

[Chantal Fernandez]

He had already gotten it the week or two before. He was. He was already done flexing. Yeah.

[Claude]

Speaking of Vic's, you mentioned that that's like something like a topic that you've covered. How deep into the world of Vic's have you gone?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I did a big feature about them not last year, but the year before, if I'm not getting my dates confused. And I basically spent like, three months talking to as many of these women as I could. Like, just DMing. I cannot tell you how many women I DM like. I went to, like, BFA photo shoots from these events, scrolled all the way to the bottom, and I'm like, oh, this is a surgeon from Ohio. How do I contact her? Like, just trying to find all the kind of normal people who are at these luxury events and talk to them about. Because it's like a hobby for them. Luxury shop other.

[James]

I like when you're on this woman's Instagram, this searching from Ohio, and you're gonna DM her like, what's it. What's her ig feed like? Is she like a fake influencer? She literally just like, I'm a mom and a.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Well, so some of them are like, fake influencers or she's. I mean, it's not fake. She's not. She's just posting that she loves fashion for her friends.

[James]

She's pure a damn.

[Claude]

But the influencers are the fake vices.

[Chantal Fernandez]

But some of them present as influencers where it's like, I think they want to kind of bridge that celebrity world. So they.

[Claude]

If they're like 600 followers, well, they

[Chantal Fernandez]

have more followers than that. Maybe they're bought, maybe they're not. Or people are confused as to why they're at the Met gala or whatever. And you look and it's like a dentist from Dallas with, like, a Christian musical recording company. That's not a hypothetical situation. And everything about her account is like, flawless. Professional photo shoot. You know, like, it looks like a real influencer hobby, but it's her hobby.

[Claude]

How much does the top. The tippy top of the fashion industry pyramid rely on the Vic?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I think it's something. It was some crazy stat where it was like 70% of sales come from 40% of the shoppers.

[James]

Goddamn.

[Claude]

Goddamn. And they all represented that as American. How Much of that Russian, Chinese, I

[Chantal Fernandez]

don't have that data, but I got the sense that it's like US and China and then Middle east is like the big ones that I think given that we've seen all these like luxury fashion shows here recently, the US has been a really resilient market when everything's kind of going crazy recently, like globally. So I think these brands see, like us, we have to go hard here. That's why we've seen all these Runway shows. Because it's like two of them, right? Yeah.

[Claude]

Well, they might have been like scheduled for, you know, like Oman or something, but can't really go over there right now.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Maybe. Yeah, it's like safe zone. But I think it's. It's not a coincidence. It's part of like really targeting the top tier customer here who has not stopped shopping. Whereas like the middle class or whatever that means to these luxury companies has pulled back.

[Claude]

And how have you seen the fashion brands react to like the buying power of Vic, which is a relatively new phenomenon. Right. Especially with like social media and flex culture.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Like, how have the brands moved to cater to this relatively small group?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, I think they were always there, but they were not always invited in to the same degree. So it's more fashion shows inviting them, flying them out, hiring a photographer to shoot them before the show, taking them to dinner, getting them in situations where they meet the designer, like just creating more experiences that justifies them shopping. Because a lot of these women, it's like they live in Nevada. They don't have a reason to wear black tie unless like Gucci gives you a reason. And it's like, okay, then I will buy the Gucci. So it's like all kind of a cycle.

[James]

So you. So you need a fit which you're going to buy for me, and then you can take the picture with Demna and he's going to look extremely funny.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Demna and Miley Cyrus or whatever.

[James]

It's like we're putting Sanchez and Jonathan Anderson.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yes. So that's like a great example of. We didn't see that before, where Jonathan Anderson equip like you was taking kind of pictures with these people.

[Claude]

Now you can sponsor the Met gal if you spend enough money.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

What. What is a threshold, generally speaking of like amount spent per year? I mean, this like MQDs with Delta. What's like the minimum qualifying dollar spent to be considered a Vic?

[Chantal Fernandez]

So when I did this story and it may have gone up from then, it was like kind of 200 to 300k per year put you on the radar and then like it escalates from there. But it is sort of. Yeah, it is sort of a percentage of like who's spending and they look at the top percent and then so as that increases, I'm sure they're kind of rewarding.

[Claude]

What do you get like a demna? Can you get like a dem to follow?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I didn't see that. But it's more like, like you get invited to the show. That's huge.

[Claude]

I mean, we saw it firsthand when we were Louis Vuitton and it was kind of like a separate but equal situation where there was a Vic.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Line entrance and red carpet and separate repeat. And then there was like the fate. The wannabe Vic's the influencers.

[James]

Yeah.

[Claude]

And guests of the show. And the difference in philosophy of life was pretty.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, of course. Yeah.

[James]

It was no self awareness at all. Like, when you're talking to these people, are they acting like they've been there before? Is it kind of like the brand has given me carte blanche to be a monster because I spent.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, they don't see it that way. They just see it as like, we love the brand.

[James]

You are the. You are the center. I'm the monster. Yeah.

[Claude]

This is an I am legend situation.

[James]

Oh, God.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I mean, there is a filtering of like, you have to think about what mindset you're in to want to talk to a reporter about your luxury spending. So that already removes a certain type of person who would maybe think, like, that's not a good idea.

[James]

That's g. Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

And I did talk to a lot of personal shoppers who gave me sort of the lay land and they're like, there is a type of ultra, ultra Vic who wouldn't even go to the show. Like, they don't care. But there is increasingly the VVIC Vic who wants to be a part of this world, feel like an influencer, feel like a Kardashian. And yeah. I think they are more and more kept apart from the press and media because the brands kind of don't want us to see what they really look like.

[Claude]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the one guy we saw at Louis, he was wearing two different sneakers. One of each.

[James]

Yeah. But like both extremely like rare virtual F1 Nike LVs. And it's like, okay, you have two pairs. We get it.

[Claude]

Have you ever.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Wait, can I tell you something related to that? One of my favorite details in the story I did, I talked to a luxury brand that will remain anonymous sales associate, and he was telling me he had this woman who spent half a million a year at the brand, and she was going to the shows, and the designer ultimately was like, I don't want this woman here because her ponytail was too high and maybe something else. And the salesman to me was like, I was heartbroken. Like, I'm getting this commission and I'm trying to help this woman as much as I can to, like, adjust her look, but at the end of the day, she's a customer. I can't be, like, dressed differently.

[James]

Right. You need stylist.

[Chantal Fernandez]

You have. Yeah, you can. You can get that message across as much as you want, but, like, it's so insulting. And he was like, we lost her as a client, obviously. Yeah.

[Claude]

She moved on to Dolce and Gabon. Where did. What part of the country was this?

[Chantal Fernandez]

This was all us.

[Claude]

Yeah, but where in the U.S. what state? Texas.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Where did she live?

[James]

Florida.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I actually don't remember. New York. I think it was. I. A lot of the people I talked to is. It could have been New York area. Yeah.

[James]

Ah, Connecticut. Tri state.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Well, yeah. People have multiple homes.

[James]

Yeah.

[Claude]

True. Speaking of fashion, are you work besties with Kathy Horan?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I wish.

[Claude]

What's her like, vibe like in the office? Is she just like.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Well, she doesn't live in New York. She lives on a flower farm in Virginia.

[James]

So she just. Wow.

[Claude]

Doesn't come into the office. She's special.

[Chantal Fernandez]

She pops in fly. Yeah, well, yeah, obviously it's Kathy, of course.

[Claude]

Yeah. Okay.

[Chantal Fernandez]

But she pops in, like, around fashion weeks, and she travels a lot for the shows, but then otherwise, she's on her farm.

[Claude]

Is she the last honest American critic

[James]

who's not on substance?

[Claude]

She can't be bought.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I mean, to me, she's in that upper echelon with Tim Blanks, Robin Gavon of people that are just, like, so inspirational to me and have done so many great stories. Like, it's just like reading their back. Like, I read Kathy's backstories, Tim Blank's backstories from other publications even. It's like, they're so good.

[Claude]

What's the gifting policy at New York, Matt? Are you allowed to accept? Because we have friends like the Times,

[James]

where it's like, yeah, I can't.

[Claude]

Yo you want this? Like, no, I can't.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I think you can. But, like, with. There's like a limit of. There's like a price limit. I have not honestly like, explored that because I still have the BoF mindset that it. It's been hard for me to let go where BO is Like nothing. Yeah.

[Claude]

What I already said.

[James]

Yeah, we can change that.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, well, I was just complaining. I love our cat and they send me press releases like weekly and it's not available for sale here. You can't even order science. I'm like, well, how did I even get on this list? But I guess it's worked.

[Claude]

Is it fast fashion?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I think insofar as like everything is fast fashion. Yeah. Yeah.

[Claude]

What do you mean by that?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Like, I think people want to say that Zara is fast fashion, but maybe it's not that different from like Gap. It's like they're still operating on the same similar model.

[Claude]

So it's like scale versus speed to you now?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I think Sheen has pushed everything into like, it's like Sheen versus everything else.

[Claude]

Okay.

[Chantal Fernandez]

But anything that's like massive world. Yeah. Mass market clothing at scale, it's still being like produced before anyone buys it. And yeah, like where it's like the more you produce, the cheaper it is.

[Claude]

Is Uniqlo fast fashion?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I think they would probably not love that title.

[Claude]

But yes, they, they did a 20 page article in the New Yorker about

[James]

how they're not the lady.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I guess.

[James]

What? Too much.

[Chantal Fernandez]

To me, fast fashion is like trend based, accessibly priced apparel that's made at scale.

[James]

So not.

[Claude]

Are we almost in a post fast fashion world?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I mean, I feel that way because I'm like, it's when people comment like, oh, where's the sustainable fashion? Like that's, that doesn't exist for the most part. Unless you're talking about a small brand like Nomi Naomi that's making things in smaller batch. Really considered she's like the Evan Canari. Yeah, exactly. I mean, what is, what do you think fast fashion means?

[Claude]

I don't know. I mean, I guess it was. I. To me it was always just like turnaround time. Like, you know, it doesn't sell in 10, in 10 hours, you burn was never it. I, I didn't take into account like the trend basedness of it, but really just kind of like copying like, oh, that's Gucci sent on the Runway. Let's have that on the racks in two weeks.

[Chantal Fernandez]

But everyone's doing that. Literally. It's not just Zara. Everyone's doing that. I feel like every, every retailer I look at is doing a nap dress is doing, I don't know, some version of what we see on the Runway.

[Claude]

Right.

[Chantal Fernandez]

We're even like post dupes conversation that feels like like five years ago.

[James]

Right. What's your, what's your read on the Everlane sale.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I think it's related to that, where it's like, oh, you know, they did. I think for a long time, Everlane was genuine in trying to make clothing in a more sustainable way and not create so much waste and be more careful about the factory partners. But. But I think a lot of customers don't care, and it's also really hard to operate a business that way. The other thing is that as the years have gone by, our expectation about what clothing should cost is, like, stayed or gone down. I'm sure you guys see this, because I feel like with men, it's even more crazy, the price sensitivity, where it's like, okay, if you don't want to spend more than 50 on a T shirt, then it's not going to last you that long. So we just continue this cycle.

[Claude]

Yeah, yeah.

[James]

Vicious cycle.

[Claude]

It's like people complaining about prices. Like, brother, that's kind of just what it costs right now.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

And you sound broke.

[James]

You got to pay the cost to be the boss dog.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, totally.

[Claude]

To where the pay the cost.

[Chantal Fernandez]

And I feel the quality has gone down a lot because the tariffs in recent years, like, don't you guys feel that way?

[Claude]

I think it's become more. You get what you pay for.

[James]

Yeah.

[Claude]

And so, like, you do have to be. And maybe this just kind of like how our band of menswear has, like, evolved or grown or Us. We have grown, but it's like. Like, it's. You got to be so much more intentional with your purchases, especially when so many people develop their habits in Pandemic, where it's just like, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

E Commerce.

[James]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Now, like, it's like, oh, none of that stuff fit me or felt good or, you know, I'm not wearing it, you know, three years later.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, totally. Do you think you've gotten better at shopping without regret?

[Claude]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

No. Yeah.

[James]

I mean, yeah, I think so. We also just think about this constantly.

[Chantal Fernandez]

So it's like, do you feel a lot of pressure to be well dressed at all times?

[Claude]

No.

[James]

No. You do it for yourself. And if you don't feel like doing it for yourself and you don't do it.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Except then you step out in a terrible fit and you see some guys like, yo, Jimmy. Oh, yeah, he's trash.

[James]

I mean, also, we're never addressed terribly.

[Claude]

So.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Like, that's true. It never happens.

[James]

Like, I can't even comprehend what you're asking.

[Chantal Fernandez]

And are people in your. Sorry.

[James]

No, no.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Do people in your life come to you constantly being like, what do I wear to this thing? Yes. Can I wear this?

[James]

That is the cross that we bear.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[James]

Which is fine because we do it for living.

[Chantal Fernandez]

You know, you're like, when there's a doctor in the family and people sending pictures of the rash, like people are sending you fit pictures.

[James]

Yeah, yeah. It was equally life saving.

[Chantal Fernandez]

And are you honest or are you

[James]

ever, like, always you have to be.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay. But you don't try to, like, it's,

[Claude]

you know, you don't have to be honest.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay. Wow.

[James]

Well, I think, I think it's the best policy for.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Right. But if it's like your cousin who really just needs to figure something out quickly, it's not like, are you like, that's fine.

[Claude]

It depends. What have they done for me lately?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay. Interesting. Transactional.

[James]

Wow.

[Claude]

The random guy be like, yo, what loafer should I get that?

[James]

Yeah. The customer service aspect that comes from the audience. If they're not even polite about it, which you'd be surprised how often these guys are not, then it is kind of fun.

[Claude]

I say, are you a patron?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yes.

[Claude]

Okay.

[James]

Prove it. Yeah.

[Claude]

Show me receipt. What do you think is the biggest story in fashion that no one's really paying attention to right now?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay. I think my best answer of that I won't tell you because I would write a story about it. But I. I think one thing that we're not talking about is like, the. And I've been thinking about is how many collaborations there have been. And I thought we had sort of reached a fever pitch of that with Virgil, and now I feel like it's even crazier. And maybe it's because people are sort of trading down. So the idea of doing like a gap collaboration makes sense for some of these brands that are, like, struggling or want to reach someone who can no longer or, you know, afford a doan dress or whatever. But I feel like the collaborations have been so insane that I wonder if they're going to run out of steam.

[Claude]

Is it that they're like, it's no longer a fashion brand or clothing brand. Clothing brand. But it's like clothing brand and glass maker is that.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, it's like clothing and clothing or

[James]

designer who doesn't have a big time job at a house anymore and I still gotta pay for my four homes. Sure. I'll do a collab with whoever.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. I mean, now there's Galliano at Zara Claire, Wake Keller at Uniqlo.

[Claude]

She's the creative director.

[Chantal Fernandez]

She. I think she's one of them.

[Claude]

She is like the Head. And she has unique clothes.

[James]

Unique because you is.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, so she does both. I see Galliano's maybe more like he's parachuting in for this thing.

[James]

Right. For them, it's like, specific.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Zach Posen, Gap. Yeah. There's a bunch of these. Yeah. But I'm saying, like, they are sort of don't have a job at a bigger place. And I've come down to do sort of regular people clothing.

[Claude]

What do you think of Gaps recent? Like, them kind of just collaborating or partnering in way in, like, with the biggest musicians in the world. World in a way that has certainly been done before. But it feels like they broke through with, like, the cat's eye.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Young Miko. Like, what do you think of that? Like, from where you're sitting?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I think it's smart and I think they fix their product, but they're also feel very, like, trendy kind of dupes fashion now at Gap, and in a way that it never was before, and maybe I think it's been successful for them.

[James]

But Gen Z, it seems like, like J. Crew or whatever else, you know.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, it's trendier than J. Crew. I think J. Crew is sort of like. Like, held the line a little bit on chasing every little trend. But it's. I mean, that's so Gap to do, like, those commercials. But my question with Gap always is like, is it all just marketing or is it actually working? And that I still don't know. But, you know, I'm sure you guys know this because we've been in this space for a long time. It's like, there were so many years. It was like, is Gap gonna come back? Is Gap gonna come back? We were like, having the same conversation over and over again. So it's kind of nice to see them sort of figure something out. And they have stores.

[Claude]

Part of that is Zach Posen.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No.

[James]

Yeah.

[Claude]

His, like, network. Personal network.

[James]

Yeah.

[Claude]

I think built up and dovetails the

[James]

90s and the 2000s being like, obviously from center in terms of nostalgia and even just, like, trends.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I also think the Shein and Amazon of it all is frustrating people and sending them to places that they remember and trust. Like I wrote about, Abercrombie is doing so much better. I think it's a similar thing where it's like, oh, this isn't like some weird marketplace seller on Amazon. Like, I can trust that this place exists. In the mall, the price is pretty good. The quality is, like, better than I thought it was going to be.

[Claude]

Be the mall's the OG Tick tock shop.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, yeah, totally.

[James]

Bars.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Totally. Because those brands didn't even really need to advertise because people were just walking by.

[James]

That is the idea.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[James]

The billboard is right.

[Chantal Fernandez]

The store was the billboard.

[Claude]

Yeah. Is there. Is there like an overrated or story that, you know, maybe the fashion media or the fashion elite is like, obsessed with that you think is just like a non story or is overrated?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I. I'm a little tired of the like, creative director debut wars and. And the kind of the musical chairs and who's going to go where.

[James]

Sucks.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, it feels. Yeah, it feels very boring. Or like the gossip of who's gonna go. I'm just like, all right, let's just.

[Claude]

The rumor mill.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Let's just see it. I can't keep up with all sources

[Claude]

tell me this person might go here or there or the other place.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, I get that. And I. And I know, like, for a certain person in this industry, that's really important, but I, I'm just like, all right, let's get on to it. You know, I, I.

[Claude]

But everyone's kind of settled.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, that's true. And now it's like, okay, can we just let people have a moment to breathe?

[Claude]

Yeah.

[James]

Well, if these guys and gals and whoever can keep their jobs, because that's the other thing too now it' are getting fired at such a clip that it's like, will we ever actually move through the eye of the.

[Chantal Fernandez]

It's like right now it feels stable. But is it even going to last? Nope.

[James]

You know, probably not if I had to guess.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Or like, one person ends up moving, like, did they didn't hire someone for the Aliyah job? Right. So then that could be like a whole domino effect. Right? Did they hire.

[James]

I don't think they hired Raps guy, the right hand man.

[Chantal Fernandez]

They hired him for now he's at Versace.

[James]

Oh, that's right.

[Chantal Fernandez]

He's about to leave.

[James]

Oh, my God. That's right.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yes.

[James]

Peter Mario got got.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Right. So I guess Dario could go somewhere and replace someone else. And then the whole cycle begins again.

[Claude]

It's so easy to just do this, right? Because it's just high school gossip. So, yeah, it's.

[James]

It's.

[Claude]

It's. It's fantasy football.

[James]

Yes.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yes. Yeah.

[Claude]

Do you have a favorite aspect of fashion that you to write about that you're always gonna hop on?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I like when there's like, a business story that intersects with something about culture, the emotions of fashion. What's like an example that, like, when I wrote about the Vic's like they're funny people. But the underlying thing is like sort of the aspirational entry level luxury shopper has fallen off. So these people are really important. The brands are doing all these things to make them happy.

[Claude]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

So like that's like the business angle. That's like one line in the story. And it's really about kind of like the funny culture of like elite shopping and how they think and what they do and what their week in Paris is like.

[Claude]

It is hilarious that the. These fashion brands are like, oh, we are the chicest, coolest, most elegant things in the world. We are a fantasy that you all must aspire to. And the people propping them up are just like, yep, G. Yeah, Floridian, Totally monsters. I mean, the reason money, new money,

[Chantal Fernandez]

the reason I did that story is because of a, a communications person from a luxury brand. Like off the record was like, our customer is so tacky. I was like, damn, that's crazy. Readers say that out loud.

[Claude]

My brother. My brother in Christ. You made the clothes.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[James]

They're like, well, you could wear it wrong.

[Chantal Fernandez]

You can wear it wrong.

[Claude]

Yeah. But a lot of it is like fairytale. But a lot of it is like they, they when luxury like discovered streetwear and they started making the logo entry, entry level items to like hook people. And then it's like immediate. The immediacy of conspicuous consumerism was like, look at the logo.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

You know what, you know, I'm wearing Fendi or whatever. Totally the logo. And here we are.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. And obviously in these brands there's people who think differently about it. Like the person who's pushing the logo product is probably not the creative, you

[James]

know, it's a merchandiser, I believe.

[Claude]

Mike the ruler.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Let's say about this with the emotion

[James]

you're talking about, like, or that you're looking for that like makes is part of a good story. What's like your personal emotion when it comes to fashion? Maybe not so much industry, but like clothes. Are you like, do you get like emotionally attached stuff? Do you love shopping? Like, how do you feel? Are you the cold removed journalist?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I think I sometimes get in my head too much about it. Whereas maybe if I didn't work in fashion, I would buy a trend and not not think and just like enjoy it. Whereas now I'm like, oh, like I missed the leopard thing and now I, I guess it's, it's gone now.

[Claude]

Cerulean blue.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. And working at BoF for so long and kind of reading young and interviewing old, older men, executives I also, like, thought a lot about, like, dressing more serious, so that. And I still have to, like, deprogram some of that.

[Claude]

How much of fashion is just run by old white guys?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Like, all of it.

[James]

They run the world, dude.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

The whole Chinese guys now.

[Chantal Fernandez]

The whole thing. Yeah. Old Japanese guys. Yeah.

[Claude]

Spanish guy. Yeah, yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Spanish guys, though, now at Zara, I think it's run by the daughter who's like a millennial or elder millennial, I think.

[Claude]

What do you think? Is Zara home? I feel like all the.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Right. I love Zara home.

[Claude]

All the girlies love it, right?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, but it's not really. It's hard to find here.

[Claude]

I went to. I went to one in Paris and it did feel like I was on Instagram.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, yeah. And it's like, the pricing is crazy, though. You can order it online because I've bought some St for my baby from Zara home because they have baby stuff. And it arrived. I think it, like, arrived the next day. Like, the delivery was bizarre. I was like, I didn't really need this right.

[James]

That badly. I was just, like, playing around.

[Claude]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

And I think it, like, delivered at midnight.

[James]

Wow.

[Chantal Fernandez]

It was something crazy around.

[Claude]

That's like 6:00am Paris time.

[James]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, I guess it's true.

[Claude]

Who's your. Do you have a dream person in fashion would love to interview one day?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Someone I think about who's like, a recluse or whatever from the media is Steven Meisel. I think he would be fun. He doesn't really do interviews. I don't even think he really, like, leaves. Leaves New York City. He's not out and about. And I always think he's interesting. He's kind of like the last of those great fashion photographers of that generation that's still working.

[Claude]

What's it like? I don't know who your editor is. If it's Lynn, I don't know if you go direct to Lindsay or, like, yeah, you have to pitch your stories or, like, how does it work?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, I pitch my stories. That's how it always is.

[Claude]

Very old school.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. Or sometimes things get assigned to you. Like, oh, we have this opportunity, this interview that someone else kind of brokered, and we want you to do it. But can you turn. No, I have to pitch stories every week.

[James]

Can you turn down an assignment if you're like, yeah, I don't feel like I'm the right person. This isn't for me. Or is. That's like, oh, it's homework. I gotta do it.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I mean, if it's a fashion Story. I can't really turn it down. Maybe if I'm like, too busy to do it, that's something else.

[Claude]

But Chat GPT.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Hey, Claire, do you guys use Chat?

[Claude]

Hey, Claude, Write this story. Make no mistakes.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Do you guys use it?

[James]

Yeah, of course.

[Chantal Fernandez]

To do what? To speak to your, to your Patreons.

[Claude]

Speak to my parents, though.

[James]

We did.

[Claude]

There wasn't these questions.

[James]

He used it to create an amazing deck that I, I could not believe was actually. Or to help. It's a tool, but I don't, I don't do any work anyway, so it doesn't matter.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay, so you don't, you don't even need it because you're not interacting with society and you made a deck that, like, sells the podcast to your corporate sponsors.

[Claude]

Yeah, it didn't, we didn't make the sale, though.

[James]

But it slapped. But the.

[Claude]

You made this with AI.

[James]

It was not. Your morals are.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I feel like that would be a selling point.

[Claude]

Well, what's funny?

[James]

Product.

[Claude]

What's funny is that they, they took, they, this agency took the deck and then clearly put it in their AI.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, no.

[Claude]

And ingested it. And they're like, what questions we need to ask. And then they, like, sent questions. I was like, oh, that was a joke. Like, there's no such thing as an authenticity score. Whatever. We talk about machines. What's the a. What's the AI policy in New York Bag? Do not use.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, I, I think it's like, you can use for research in some ways. To be honest, I didn't fully digest it because I, I haven't really used

[Claude]

it could have just copied and pasted to Chat GPT and be like, digest, summarize it.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Explain. Like, I'm, I know. I, I, I think I have used it for some research purposes, but it wasn't.

[Claude]

Is like they've.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I know it is.

[James]

And it's really useful. I can't lie, you know.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I know sometimes, but. Sometimes, yeah, sometimes. No.

[Claude]

Do you see a lot of fashion media just clearly spitting out AI slop in terms like reportage and writing or not, not, Not a cut. But like, at.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, like online. I actually don't feel like I do, I do see, like, AI generated. That means it's good press releases. I'm trying to not read press releases, sure.

[James]

But I feel like that when I do happen to glance at a press release, I'm like, what? First of all, it's already its own genre of bullshit, but I feel like that would be like a free one for publicists.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Just like yeah, that's true. When I between BoF and the cut, I was freelance because I was working on the book and I did some copywriting for a branding agency that did like, branding for luxury buildings.

[Claude]

Okay.

[Chantal Fernandez]

And part of what I as a copywriter had to do was like, create kind of a slam poetry mission statement.

[Claude]

Yo, this building is tall, yo.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, it would be like it'll never fall. The sun rises over the city. The. The train rumbles. Like, it was very much like slam poetry. I was thinking that. Yeah, it was amazing. But I wonder if that is something that has been sort of replaced by AI.

[James]

Yeah, slam poets are losing their jobs to AI with that.

[Chantal Fernandez]

But it's slam poets for the purpose of branding a luxury to Penn Station.

[Claude]

Claude, make a poem about this building. No mistakes.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Try harder. Yeah.

[Claude]

10 more vibes. What's been your of BoF, the cut. Where were you before BoF?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I was at Fashionista.

[Claude]

Oh, my God.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Wow.

[James]

Another.

[Claude]

Yeah, your boss.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. At one point, I feel like that's when I first became aware of you guys.

[James]

Fashionista University.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Your wife, wasn't she friends with Alyssa at the time?

[James]

Yeah, yeah, probably Tyler.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Tyler, yeah. Mora. That was my crew university.

[Claude]

For real.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I know. So many people have gone through Fashionista.

[Claude]

It's crazy complex for women.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Cuz Complex is hugely incubator program of like everyone that has like gone on to do their own thing.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Right. Were you guys at Complex at that time? Because I feel like I remember the show.

[James]

Yeah, we're there like the heyday.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

But across your whole career, what is your. Not including the book? Yeah, we're gonna get to the book in a second. But what has been your proudest journalistic achievement across the entirety of your.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay, I think the story that has gotten the most eyeballs and readership, which is maybe one way to judge this. I did a Devil Wears Prada to inflation index comparing the prices of things from the first movie to the second movie, like Yarlsberg prices, Chanel boots prices. And that. That reached. I think that reached a small nation.

[James]

That was viral.

[Chantal Fernandez]

That went viral in. In my world, like, so many people were like, oh, that was amazing.

[Claude]

Which had the highest percentage increase? Like, what brand, what product?

[Chantal Fernandez]

The. I think it was the tuition for Dalton.

[James]

Oh, that's incredible. So on brand.

[Claude]

Damn.

[James]

Yeah, they can afford it. So it's like, why not extort those?

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, the other thing that went up a ton was Starbucks coffee. Coffee. I think Starbucks had doubled.

[James]

That's a relative.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Dalton had gone up. Is it Dalton? I'm saying it wrong, Dalton. I can't. I. I have pronunciation problems. And I think those are the two things.

[James]

Starbies. I mean. Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I mean, the cost of, like, an A Vogue magazine, I think it doubled.

[Claude]

Really? But. But the pages, it's a.

[Chantal Fernandez]

It's a specialty product now. Mag. Print.

[James]

Those words are valid.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Print is a luxury item now.

[Claude]

What was. What was the vibe like? So, like, for a second there, the online discourse was about. About why is there no the cut for men, or do we need the cut for men? I think it was, like, accompanied by, like, some gq, like, probably some AI slob. What was the vibe like within the cut itself when the online discourse was asking, should there be a cut for men? Were you guys, like, what was going out?

[Chantal Fernandez]

We were just like, lol.

[Claude]

No, no, no, we don't.

[James]

Men don't deserve that.

[Claude]

We don't.

[James]

We don't.

[Claude]

We don't care. Sex diaries.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I think you have enough. Isn't like. Isn't porn sex diaries for men? I don't know. They feel like men have enough.

[James]

Diary.

[Claude]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

My view is, like, what makes the cut. The cut is that it's for women. Like, that's like. What do you mean?

[James]

For us. By us.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't think there can be a men's one.

[Claude]

And the gays.

[Chantal Fernandez]

And the gays, right?

[James]

Yeah, the gays and the girls. And there. There shouldn't be. There can't be.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I guess.

[Claude]

What is the men's equivalent or parallel of the cut? I'm not saying it's a one for one, but, like, what would you. There's none fun.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No. And it can't exist.

[Claude]

Is it fun again?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Could be.

[James]

This is a meeting of journalists. Capital J journalists right now.

[Chantal Fernandez]

So I think it could be. Yeah, there's a. There's certainly an element.

[Claude]

Do you pay attention at all to, like, the men's style space?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm interested in what. What you guys are doing.

[Claude]

What are we doing?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay, well, I actually have a question for you about that, because there was this era of, like, the going way back. It was the forums era. And then the blogs, four pins. Like, there's been all these distinct. And then the streetwear takeover.

[Claude]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Podcasts. Of which you guys are the. The leading. But, like, what is. What is the era now in menswear? Not just in media, but, like, what is the aesthetic now? Because I feel like it was about education and then it was about streetwear took over.

[Claude]

It's pretty fragmented, which I think is both good and bad.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay.

[Claude]

I think it's like post, post, post hypebeast. Like, yes, 20.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Like, that just went away, basically.

[James]

Well, everyone grew up.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Everyone grew up.

[Claude]

Well, there's still guys. There's still guys in their 40s that are buying Jordans, but that's wearing that.

[James]

They were even old when.

[Chantal Fernandez]

But they stayed in that mindset and they're never leaving it.

[Claude]

I think a lot of young men that are trying to dress like older men. Yeah, a lot of older men that are trying to dress like younger men. I think you have just like the male content creator is like an aesthetic that is like, insane and terrible.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[James]

Before you. Page low look.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. Okay.

[Claude]

Yeah. Like, and.

[Chantal Fernandez]

But the aesthetic of the. For you page is what? Like, I've gotten like. It's sort of like a boxy T shirt. Yeah.

[James]

It's very trendy. It also changed.

[Claude]

It's loafers and white socks. It's big shorts. It's a big belt. It's a beater tucked in. It's a button.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay.

[Claude]

Down. And then like a vintage hat, like, pulled down low.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yes.

[Claude]

Rings. It's a. Yeah, it's like a Silver Lake mechanic.

[James]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay, interesting.

[Claude]

Like Orchard street dudes. It's also like. Like, I don't know. Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

And it's like, vintage. There's not a logo. It's not logo dependent or brand.

[James]

No, not at all. I don't. I think logos are. Unless it was like, again, like a New York Knicks vintage logo thing because of what's happening in the cultures. Like ice. It's logos are. Yeah.

[Claude]

Ironic logos.

[James]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay, interesting.

[James]

And then you have like, the. Then there's the newsletter guy, like the link, like a recommendation machine that's like, you know, a lot of the brands that we like and we've been talking about, there's always like, those guys are very consumer based. There's new popping up. They need to buy the new Japanese brands. This guy's the. This is the next artisanal Evan Coronary style thing.

[Claude]

Like, there's.

[James]

Bye, bye, bye, bye.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I got it. And there's like, a lot of pressure for the next new.

[James]

Well, they have to write newsletters every week with new product.

[Claude]

Right.

[James]

Yeah.

[Claude]

They got to pitch their stories, too, to themselves. That's the problem. They don't have any editors.

[James]

Yeah, true.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. I don't think I. Yeah. That. That's so daunting to me because what I do is such like, a group project that if. Even though it has my name on it, that to do it alone is scary. I mean, do you Think that the

[Claude]

newsletter phenomenon is a fad that'll go away? Or is it something I'll truly and fundamentally change the entire landscape of media?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I don't think it's a fad and I think it's more connected to like the blogger era than maybe we think it is. It feels like just another version of that. That which is about sort of a focus on individual voices in fashion and their experience. Like this is not that. I don't think Brian Boy is really doing anything that different. He just has more access and maybe he's on Tick Tock now and he's being. Has a place to be funnier than he was on his blog. But like it's funnier. It's fundamentally the same thing.

[James]

It's a POV thing.

[Claude]

Funnier.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. I think Ryan was funny.

[James]

I think it's more taste level focus because of like buzzwords like taste and personal style are now like, like in the word cloud. So it's like versus, I don't know, the blog era seemed more, I don't

[Claude]

know, a little more. It does feel like. It feels like it's very platform specific. Talking about substack where like remember when everyone was on like Facebook was like, okay, now we're all going to do video.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Right. And then everyone tr. This is like pivot to video 1.0 and it failed. And then would everyone is like completely reliant on like one or two platforms. Instagram, TikTok subset. And then the platform is like, oh, we're actually going to change everything now. Like Substack wants to do. They want to be Twitter, they want to be Instagram, they want to be.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Substack. And so you're kind of at the mercy of like their whims and, and, and their investors.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Totally. And that's really frustrating and scary and

[Claude]

I think people are going to like put all their eggs in one basket and then like they're gonna flip the switch or subtract me. Like actually we're gonna be. We're gonna do long form video and then everyone's like, what the.

[Chantal Fernandez]

But the impulse behind it. I think like if someone leaves substack, I think the aud people, if they like grab gravitate towards them. It's really about like wanting a person's view on the industry or shop Parasocial too. Absolutely. You know, but that's because we like spend more time inside without other people.

[James]

Like Leandra people. Yeah. And obviously she's now on Substack. Totally, man. Or probably felt like a parasocial thing. Absolutely part of it, I guess.

[Chantal Fernandez]

And then the other thing that's changed is I think it's so hard to find things. It's not like there's a shopping mall or the department store. It's so hard to find things online. Or even like, what's the good thing on Amazon on the pink. People are really desperate for help. Like, that's why there's so much like link hunger to a way that sort of surprises me sometimes. It's like, what's the link? What's the link? That's like what all tick tock is.

[Claude]

What about affiliate links? Like, how do you think that's affected?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, I think that's like now there's regular people doing affiliate links, which is crazy to me. Just like for like the cool college girl I'm sure makes a great amount of money just having random affiliate links.

[James]

What's your read on the strategist?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, strategist is like does.

[James]

It's like, is that more valid that coming from like where there are editors and a team than like, like just some guy or girl doing the exact same by themselves? On substack is one more valid than the other? Apples and oranges.

[Chantal Fernandez]

As a shopper, I. What I like is more the comparison of things like the testing that's always, you know, some I always get because I've just had a baby. So it's like mom's guide to things we need. I'm like, okay on substack. But you didn't try every diaper. You tried this one diaper and now you're recommending it to you.

[Claude]

I wore every diaper for a week.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Week. You know what I mean? It's like there wasn't a test. There was no comparison there. Whereas has a process that's like testing multiple people. Tried these mattresses, blah, blah, blah.

[James]

Integrity, the integrity of the strategy or

[Chantal Fernandez]

at least, you know, some comparison point. Because there's no, there's no post.

[Claude]

This is how we did it. This is like we. Yeah, we, we tried these shirts, wire cutters, like we tried these bidets or whatever. Consumer Reports.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Et cetera.

[Chantal Fernandez]

The bidet account. Yeah, the bidet post.

[Claude]

Yeah. Affiliate bidet money. What about like content creators, like the individuals, right? Not just. I'm not talking newsletter writers like the reelsman reels girls. Tick tock. Women are women's fashion content creators. As corny and unoriginal as what we're seeing on the men's side with content creators.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, I think in general women are. Are less corny Just overall, just basically inherently. Yeah.

[James]

The fair sex.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No. What. What kind of freaks me out on the women's side is that it's sometimes the willingness of people to turn their entire life and family into an ad.

[Claude]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

The eagerness to do that is sort of like a black mirror episode that we've just. This is such an aspirational career to just turn everything in your life into an ad.

[Claude]

Gen Z, I think, is like the most. The most desired job. Or maybe it's Gen Alpha now is like influencer.

[James]

Streamer.

[Chantal Fernandez]

That's crazy.

[James]

Streamer. YouTuber.

[Claude]

Influencer.

[James]

Influencer.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, I guess streamers even easier than, like, it's a lot of work to be an influencer. You know, it's like your husband's birthday and you still have to create three vlogs, link out a gifting thing, get a sponsored cake. Yeah. Yeah. Every child is like a new content pillar.

[Claude]

Go wait online for like the latest sweet treat.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. Just for there to be, like, something to talk about.

[James]

So the utter shamelessness is even deeper than maybe on the men's.

[Chantal Fernandez]

It depresses me a little bit. No, I don't think it's shameless. It's just maybe it's more like it pierces more of your life. Because with women, it's like all connected to all of these different things. Like, it's rarely just like a fashion.

[Claude]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

There's some other angle to it.

[Claude]

Have you ever been pressured to be more of an on camera presence? Like, we're like, we legitimately are seeing this at fucking WaPo. New York Times. They're like, training their editors and writers to be like, talk to camera people. Do you get that?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I wouldn't say pressure, but it's more like, hey, do you want to do this Chanel store vlog? I'm like, yeah, that's kind of funny. And. And I'm happy to do it. I'm not great at it, but it's, I think, kind of also the rougher it is, the better it is sometimes

[James]

like low fi or like, it's not

[Chantal Fernandez]

so performed that I think people respond to it better.

[James]

Is this a skill you think that you are willing to, like, learn or you will learn as you do more, or is it kind of like maybe.

[Chantal Fernandez]

But I think what they really just want for me is to write features that people read. So I don't know if they need that from me.

[Claude]

Okay, interesting.

[Chantal Fernandez]

There's people who are like, hired specifically to do that at the.

[Claude]

That.

[James]

Are those journalists? I don't know, like 60 minutes.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Like our. Like our social team, you know, that kind of stuff.

[Claude]

Shout out Zach.

[James]

Social media.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, yeah. He works really hard. His Tony.

[Claude]

He's become an on camera guy.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, his Tony stuff is. Was really fun. I feel like he's always out there.

[Claude]

Do you like his tux?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, he looked great. And those little, like, New York, kind of my New York series that they've been doing, I think is really fun.

[Claude]

What is that?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Sort of like the celebrity. It was like Allison Roman, like, asking kind of New York etiquette and like, routine questions.

[Claude]

Oh, like Subway.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, kind of.

[Claude]

Yeah.

[James]

But, you know, but not on the subway.

[Chantal Fernandez]

What about you guys?

[Claude]

Are they New Yorkers, though? I don't know.

[James]

Oh, yeah. What does JLO think?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. Do you guys consider yourselves New Yorkers? Yes.

[Claude]

Well, I was born and raised here, so. Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay.

[Claude]

He put in his 10 years, which is. Whoa.

[James]

10.

[Claude]

Which is a metric made up by transplant.

[Chantal Fernandez]

10.

[James]

10. Try 15, brother.

[Claude]

Okay, so he's five years over. The metric made up by transplants.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. Okay. I've lived here for 15 years and I don't identify as a New Yorker.

[Claude]

Really?

[James]

What do you identify as?

[Claude]

Well, woman.

[James]

What are your pronouns? Nyc.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Nyc. I don't know. It's if. Because if I were to leave New York right now and move to a different city when I moved there, would I say, hey, I'm from New York.

[James]

But that's because the branding issue.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I grew up in Houston.

[Claude]

H. Town.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. So I feel like, great city. Yeah.

[Claude]

You can share yourself. Texas.

[Chantal Fernandez]

You got married in Houston, right?

[James]

My wife is from outside of Houston. Wow. Yeah, she, you know, it's funny, she identifies as a New Yorker, but also as a Texas Jackson.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

See, that's the.

[James]

Can you have your cake and eat it too?

[Claude]

I don't know. This is why transplants are just like. They just want. They can't have their cake and eat it too.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, they want. They're greedy.

[Claude]

No, they can just like. They're greedy and they can just, like, take on whatever identity they want.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay. James, would you consider me a New Yorker? Do you think I'm wrong?

[Claude]

You had an anchor baby here.

[Chantal Fernandez]

That's true, but we're not talking about if my baby is a New Yorker.

[Claude]

But I think that raising kids in New York. True. Is more qualifying to make yourself a New Yorker. Also, I think the whole argument is only perpetrated by or perpetuated by transplants to, like, validate themselves.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, sure.

[Claude]

Whereas most New Yorkers are like, shut the up.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. I guess that's what do you.

[James]

How about this? What do you. Even for transplant, what are you bringing to the table? Okay, are you like, just generally.

[Claude]

I'm saying York's are a magazine that's called New York.

[James]

No, no, I'm saying to all. To all transplants, not just John. I'm saying if you bring something table and you like add, then yeah, maybe you. You've earned the right to say you're a New Yorker. Wait, online for fro you yo, that

[Chantal Fernandez]

makes you a New Yorker.

[James]

No, I'm saying that's all you do. Then you're not a New Yorker.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Ics you're saying, like, are you adding to the city or not?

[Claude]

There's one way to judge it. Where do you go for Thanksgiving? That's it.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. Well, if you don't, I don't stay here for Thanksgiving. So then it doesn't. It doesn't count.

[Claude]

Not in New York.

[James]

What a take, dude. Take that to the subway, brother.

[Claude]

No, thank you. Where the were we? Oh, sorry to distract. No, no, what about. Okay, what. Whether or not you're participating in or contributing to it. What about, like your honest assessment on that? Kind of like the editorial vacation of Instagram, where now there's Instagram accounts are like, we're a magazine because they put text over image and are basically just regurgitating press releases and honestly probably like recontextualizing them via AI and shit. Like, do you guys feel. Do you see that at all? Do you feel threatened by it? Do you consume that?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I don't feel threatened by like any individual one. It's more that it's sort of a symbol of a larger issue, which is like, people don't read.

[James]

Read, right?

[Claude]

People don't read.

[Chantal Fernandez]

People don't read. Like sometimes even on the comments on an article, I'm like, oh, these people didn't read it right?

[James]

Or they read the headline, right?

[Chantal Fernandez]

They read the headline, they read the sub headline.

[James]

Comprehension.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Like, people do not read, you know,

[Claude]

so how does that affect you?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I mean, you guys have a podcast,

[Claude]

you know, people read the transcript. How does that affect your job that people don't read and you're a writer?

[Chantal Fernandez]

It just makes me more aware of, like, I need to do a better job hooking people in, I guess. Or also disregard comments from people who clearly, like, didn't read it.

[Claude]

Do you read the comments?

[Chantal Fernandez]

So it depends if it's something that I worked. Like that Vic story, I knew the comments are going to be mean to these people, even though my story was not mean, in my humble opinion. And So I waited, like six months.

[James]

Oh, wow.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. And then I was like, oh, I wonder what people thought. Or sometimes I'll ask someone, like my editor or my husband will be like, will you look at the comments and tell me, like, what the general vibe is? Yes. And they'll be like, oh, you know, people are blah, blah, blah. Don't look at it. Look at it.

[James]

And you don't consider any. What?

[Claude]

What.

[James]

Regardless of the temperature of the comments. That is not success metric for you. Right. If you're happy with it, you're like, and I turned this in. I filed it.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Well, I have never left a comment on an article.

[James]

Oh.

[Chantal Fernandez]

In my life. I don't think I've ever left a comment on an Instagram of someone I don't know.

[James]

Fire. I mean, that's.

[Claude]

You're not dropping emojis. Just fire.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, I'm not. Like, duo. You look amazing.

[Claude]

Yeah.

[James]

Goat.

[Claude]

Goat. Bullseye. Bullseye.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No. Have you guys.

[James]

No. On, like, weird.

[Claude]

That's weirdo behavior.

[James]

Not on, like a outlander. Complex or high. Stop.

[Claude]

No, no, no, no. Yeah.

[James]

People that I don't know. Celebrities. My favorite celebs getting mad engaged.

[Claude]

You're going to start.

[Chantal Fernandez]

You comment on celebrity accounts?

[James]

It depends.

[Claude]

You're going to start seeing his comments everywhere now that you're looking for them. You're only.

[Chantal Fernandez]

What's an example?

[James]

Action Bronson is on vacation, dropping fit picks.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[James]

He's like playing dress up in Sicily.

[Chantal Fernandez]

And you're like, you look amazing commenting. Yeah. Slay queen. Okay.

[James]

Yes, exact. Exactly. I'm telling Bronson that he's a queen and he's slaying. Yes.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay.

[James]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

All right. I get that it's parasocial.

[James]

I, I, you know, I'm.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, see, you have your own parasocial relationship.

[Claude]

Love it.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, that's true.

[Claude]

Monday.com AI agents took over my work, and I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders. Agents handle the daily grind. Now I stay in the loop only when it matters.

[James]

Create your own AI agent in minutes

[Claude]

on Monday dot com.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I'm Kiana, and I leveled up my business with Shopify. Once I figured out that Shopify was a thing, I never turned back. I can create a site with my eyes closed. Shopify thinks ahead of us, you know, and it thinks about the customer more than anything. Every day I'm thinking about some other new business, but Shopify is doing it to me because it's so easy to use. It's like, I can't stop. I'm addicted.

[James]

Start Your free [e-mail].

[Claude]

do you think that that's like the fact people don't read and that really is just like brief text over image? Do you think that that's a medium that's going to take off?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, I think it already has and it's related to AI. It's all part and parcel of the same thing. Like people just read less and it's sad. That's how like we have all these crazy conspiracy theories that really take root and it's all related.

[Claude]

How do you feel being in an industry that it sounds like you are honest about it? Kind of like constricting. If not, I don't know, dying.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. I mean we're in media. You guys are on a podcast. You used to work at a website. I think, where no one's blind to it. I just think it's. The audience is changing and you have to be aware of it. It means you have to do a better job with the stories we do.

[James]

Do you're gonna read anything? Read the writing on the wall.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. I mean I published a book in the year 2025. Like that's crazy.

[Claude]

How much money you make off that?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I won't share.

[James]

Okay, well, you got paid in totes,

[Chantal Fernandez]

so not a lot of paid in toes that one.

[Claude]

Okay. Can we get a Chantal State of the Union on fashion media in 2026? It's real quick. Where we at? Where we headed?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Fashion media. I mean, I still love it if I think it's tough to write about fashion. If you, you think it's dumb when that flip switches. I'm sure you've seen that in your friends. It's like you gotta, you gotta pack up and go find a new. Yeah. Find a new lane. I still love it. It's like. And I'm glad I'm not writing about politics.

[Claude]

Yeah. Has that enthusiasm ever flagged where you

[Chantal Fernandez]

have had to like maybe during like the, the pandemic when there wasn't any of the in person part, I was like, I can't. This is a lot. Yeah. And it was like dire. Like all these companies are failing.

[Claude]

Sure.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. Maybe then I was like, maybe this, I can't keep doing this. But in general. No, I just love how. I love how irrational this business is.

[James]

Yeah, totally. Well, people.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Having a babies switch up your priorities or perspective at all.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, I thought it was like fundamentally change me in some way. And I, I don't. I can still care about dumb.

[James]

Right.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Or whatever the.

[Claude]

I care about both things can be true.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, it makes you want to, like, choose more carefully. I'm not gonna go get drinks with our publicists that I don't need to know on a. On a Tuesday night.

[James]

Well, like, when it comes to, like, perks, like from the outside world, people think fashion and fashion journalism is glamorous, potentially or whatever. Like, do you hobnob and, like, participate in that thing, or is that, like, not for you events?

[Chantal Fernandez]

And I've never. I've never been like the. The best hobnobber, but I. I do go out to stuff. I mean, you guys have seen me around.

[Claude]

Not that much, I guess a few weeks ago.

[James]

Yeah, I guess it depends on the venue. If it's an open bar, etc. Right.

[Chantal Fernandez]

We had a great hangout, the three of us, a Forel exhibition of some.

[James]

The auction.

[Claude]

That was a while ago.

[James]

Yeah, the Jupiter Auction.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Was that pre pandemic Jupiter?

[Claude]

No, I think it was like. I think it was like when, like, she was opening up and it's like, yeah, let's throw insanely opulent and unnecessary events. Those are cool marketing money for that's been, you know, accumulating for two years.

[James]

So Drake can buy all Forel's chains and melt them down.

[Claude]

Because Horns can comment on it.

[James]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Oh, you can't comment. He doesn't follow you. Sorry. Sorry, bud.

[James]

Can you come, Andre? I think he. He switches comments back on. I'll let you know.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, okay. Yeah, I'll look for you there. I'll look for you there.

[Claude]

You'll see a lot of goat emojis over there recently.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, I mean, like, that stuff isn't like, that important to my writing. And sometimes like, oh, I should just be writing, but, you know, there's like, fashion jobs where you really have to be. Like, if you're a stylist or whatever, you have to go to all the showrooms. Like, that's not really related to my job, but I like to go to as much as I can.

[James]

If brands try to buy. You like to get, you know, by like, inviting you to dinners and things.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, I mean, they do, but it's more like, okay, we need someone from the cut at this dinner because this is a good relationship. You know, we want to be at the main things at Fashion Week. It's more like that versus me specifically. Unless I have, like, friends who are publicists that I. They tell me about this random thing that I really don't care about, but I like them, so I will show up to it.

[Claude]

What are you working on right now? Can you tell it gives a little glimpse of what maybe you're in the. In the Chantal drafts.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I can't. I have two long features that I've been working on that won't be out until September, and I can't tell you,

[James]

but they're going to bang for sure.

[Claude]

Sure.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I hope so.

[Claude]

Are they gonna be the men's issue?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, one in the men's issue. Oh, one in the women's issue. James, I told you about it at Bar Oliver.

[James]

I know, but I'm.

[Claude]

But I'm trying to te.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I can't. I can't. I can't wait.

[James]

Are we. Should we be excited or is it a stinker?

[Chantal Fernandez]

It's a stinker.

[Claude]

It sucks. Yeah, it sucks.

[James]

Lower the expectation. What?

[Claude]

How has Sam Hine kind of fit himself into the office? Is he like.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, he's lovely. Yeah. Yeah, he's so. I mean, I was so excited for him to join you guys.

[Claude]

Bully him on the first day. Do you give him a swirl mod haircut?

[Chantal Fernandez]

If anything, he's been bullied by the volume of plants and flowers that he has received.

[James]

Oh, my God.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. I feel like his job is actually gardening. Yeah. Like, every. He has to, like, prune his orchid.

[James]

Prince of menswear. Which is why I was such a great.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I know.

[James]

Menswear media.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, I know. It's so exciting. Were you guys surprised to see that?

[Claude]

Yes and no. You know, yes.

[James]

No.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay.

[Claude]

I mean, I think it's great, and I'm excited and happy for Sam.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Would you guys ever go back to traditional media?

[James]

Nope.

[Chantal Fernandez]

And has that money's not good enough. Was there a point where that was clear? Okay, you guys are done. You're out.

[Claude]

Well, I can never work for anyone ever.

[James]

I could, but the money will never be right. That's. That's why I think we caught. We got out of it and went into tech, basically because it was just like, you just don't get paid, dude.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, I get that.

[Claude]

I worked for enough idiots can't go back.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Was there a breaking point?

[Claude]

Everyone is stupid. Except.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Wait, so it's been 10 years of the podcast.

[James]

He is not even kidding. And it's his brand. I have.

[Claude]

It's me and Claude against the world.

[James]

Claude, the dynamic body.

[Claude]

No mistakes. 20 more vibes.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay, wait, wait. So it's 10 years of the podcast? Six years that you did not have other jobs?

[Claude]

Like, six years of doing this full time.

[James]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Which is, like. Goes with the pandemic. That's crazy.

[James]

That's when we decided to not have health insurance.

[Claude]

Health insurance in March 2020.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, it's cool.

[James]

I never got Covid because I never tested, but, you know.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, that's amazing. Congrats. That's, like, huge.

[Claude]

Thanks.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Do you guys ever feel like we are trailblazers in We?

[Claude]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

The two of you.

[James]

Not me.

[Chantal Fernandez]

The two of you.

[Claude]

Maybe at one point. Not anymore.

[James]

No.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Do you still identify as dirt bags?

[James]

No.

[Claude]

Yeah, you've.

[Chantal Fernandez]

You've. You've grown.

[James]

I mean, there's always going to be dirt bag tendencies. You can't.

[Claude]

You know, this guy's wearing a polo. This is a dirt bag. You can't.

[James]

I could flip. I could. I could pop this dollar. That would immediately go dirt bag mode.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Douchebag. Yeah, that's douchebag.

[James]

Yeah. A little bit different.

[Chantal Fernandez]

How do you feel? Like the podcast has changed.

[Claude]

You learned a lot. Gotten gained a lot of confidence again. Realized that everyone is stupid except for me. Yeah.

[James]

And.

[Claude]

Yeah, that's it.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Interesting.

[Claude]

Lawrence.

[James]

I think I have a new appreciation for people that are willing to take risks and strike out their own. I don't know if I to want. I would have been judgmental about, like, hustlepreneurship and all, how things have gotten bastardized. But I. I think in the past, I was like, oh, but I've got, like, the business card, or I'm like, you know, or being a team player. I'm over that now.

[Chantal Fernandez]

But you guys took a risk.

[James]

You did, so I respect you.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Hustle entrepreneur.

[Claude]

Also, like, we. I think we're so unhappy with where we're at. We're like, it.

[James]

Yeah, it. This has worked out pretty good, though, so.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, I mean, it's amazing. Thank you.

[Claude]

I mean. Yeah, we were early, I think, to just. Just identifying, like, menswear as a pretty large, like, facet of culture, that people are only like, whoa. Like, straight dudes, like, clothes. What the.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, exactly. That's what I mean. Like, that was, like, a chapter of this, like, kind of crazy menswear arc that we've had over the last, what, 15 years?

[James]

And we fathered a lot of stuff. I'm not gonna front.

[Claude]

We really did. Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I mean, four pins, even, like, year. The year.

[James]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Fashion, bro. Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Claude]

What's going on in menswear that excites you?

[Chantal Fernandez]

You. I. Bob Dylan wore a flamingo printed shirt. That got me excited this week.

[James]

Put down the Z. Yeah, okay. Bob Dylan flamingo shirt. Got it.

[Claude]

I'm gna.

[James]

Look that up.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Pink flamingo.

[James]

So that you're Dylan guy.

[Chantal Fernandez]

So I am married to a Dylan guy. And therefore I've. I have a lot of Dylan in my life. I've seen him like, maybe four times.

[Claude]

Really?

[James]

Like.

[Claude]

Like performing form.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, yeah. You know that he's. He tours.

[Claude]

He's still touring.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, not still touring. He's been touring, I think, for like 25 years, non stop.

[Claude]

He's playing, like, Starbucks and.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No.

[Claude]

Yes, he is.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Jones Beach.

[Claude]

Well, in between the arenas.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[James]

Greatest American living artists, right?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Probably.

[Claude]

Do you like the Timmy movie?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I loved the Timmy movie actually.

[James]

Same.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. Did you. Did you guys. Are you guys Bob people?

[James]

No, Timmy guy.

[Claude]

I did Dylan phase in college and still.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Still, yeah.

[Claude]

Enjoy it, I think.

[James]

Great impression.

[Claude]

Don't think twice.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay, let's. Let's hear it.

[Claude]

No, I can't do it, dude.

[James]

Come on. It's really good, dude.

[Claude]

What do I say?

[James]

Well, just say what I say. Anything, but do your Dylan. You can do it. All right.

[Claude]

It'll pop out at some point.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay, got it.

[Claude]

Well, I just thought that Timmy was doing an impression the whole movie. He wasn't acting as very one note.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I see you.

[Claude]

He's just doing. He just, like, watched old Dylan videos. It was like, okay, that's. I'm gonna do the impression. I'm gonna do the voice for two hours.

[James]

Still deserve the Oscar over Adrian Brody, the third greatest American living artist. Adrian.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay, so who's number two?

[James]

Timothy Chalamet.

[Chantal Fernandez]

And who's number one?

[James]

Bob Dylan.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, that's your personal ranking. Okay. No, that makes sense.

[Claude]

I thought you had fine artists.

[James]

No, just so.

[Claude]

So. So you'll see an item like a. Like a fire shirt on a celebrity, and that's what, like, excites you about menswear?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, sometimes. Yeah. Well, Bob also doesn't address the audience in his concerts, so what he wears is some of the ways that he communicates. Like, he does not acknowledge that an audience is there in any way.

[James]

Shirt communication, Kate.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I think it. It communicated that he's flirty and feeling excited for the summertime 100.

[James]

Flirty and fun.

[Chantal Fernandez]

He's in his low 80s.

[Claude]

He's swinging.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Is there anything, men, that you want to see go away?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I'm still out in the normal world. And I know you guys are operating at elite levels, but in with. With regular Americans that I see in the airport. No, I was in the heartland last week. I. I can't speak more on that. But the. The. The silhouette is still too skinny for men.

[Claude]

Skinny jeans.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yes. I'm still seeing a lot of, like, a skinny khaki, like, in a cor. I think, I think what we wear to work has been so destroyed by the pandemic and people are doing crazy things. I'm still seeing a lot of like a skinny, stretchy khaki.

[James]

The lulu pant is like the whatever. The ABC pant.

[Chantal Fernandez]

But even ABC pant I feel like is a little wider legged. I'm. I feel like I'm seeing some bonobos pants that have been in the wash for 10 years.

[Claude]

Damn.

[James]

Yikes.

[Claude]

You know what I'm saying? A lot of recently is butt wipe tees. I feel like are back.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Butt wipe tees.

[Claude]

What is it like the curved hem baseball.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yes.

[Claude]

Which they were like a streetwear thing.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yes. With like the skinny stack jeans.

[Claude]

Got the vans. It was a west coast thing. It was horrible then and now I'm seeing it on like that's great. On like fitness guys.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh.

[James]

Like a young LA style.

[Chantal Fernandez]

What. What do you think is driving that?

[Claude]

I don't the 10 year cycle just like it being. I think guys are just wearing like performance gear like lulu pants and like like moisture wicking tees because they think they're protein warriors. I don't know. I don't know. The Miamification of America.

[James]

If you're skipping leg day, you're not doing squats that'll cover your tiny little butt.

[Chantal Fernandez]

That's true.

[James]

Work on it.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[James]

Don't you know?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Maybe it's like a. This insecurity everyone now has about dick size. So it's like the right.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yes. New York Mag all over that story. Yeah. Brock was rude. Really investigate.

[Claude]

I was working on that for a minute.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, well, I mean we, we take our features seriously at New York Mag.

[Claude]

Who's your favorite writer at New York Mag?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, I do love Brock Always read those. Emily Gould. I love she does the dinner party newsletter now. Love everything she does.

[Claude]

How many newsletters do you guys do now?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I honestly don't know because I probably don't even get all of them. But that's the main one I look at. I mean there's a cut one that kind of has our stories.

[James]

Have you been approached? Because I know Sam. Sam going to do newsletter.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, I think that's going to be great.

[James]

Right. Like. And he kind of proved that with show notes, which is like a must read if you love men's work. Have you thought about the newsletter game?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I was thinking about that. But what I like about my job now is that I can like disappear for a few weeks and write a feature. Like no one really. I can like go off the grid For a while.

[Claude]

So you haven't really published anything since, like, Met Gala.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I know. Sorry, guys. Because I'm working on these stories.

[James]

Because you're busy working.

[Claude]

She's in the lab.

[Chantal Fernandez]

But that's such a luxury.

[James]

Sure, yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Right. I mean, I do like the sometimes blog news that they need me to

[Claude]

do, but it's not something a newsletter, a substacker can do.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Right, right. Because you have to be churning out every week or whatever. Yeah. And so it's. That's like a huge luxury. Nice thing about what I do.

[Claude]

We can actually apply qualitative time into the work versus just like farting out whatever.

[Chantal Fernandez]

When I'm telling you I spent 3 months DMing rich ladies, like, I literally didn't. Nothing. I literally did nothing else to the point where I said to my editor, like, is this okay? Just. She was like, keep. Just do another round, do another week. Oh, God. My main editor is Marissa Carroll, who's like our executive editor, deputy editor. I'm not sure what her title is.

[Claude]

How does it, like, what's the flow? What's the vibe like with her between you guys?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, she's great. I love. I love being editor by her. I mean, that's what I'm saying. It's like a team job. Like, I couldn't do this stuff by myself. I need, you know, I'm a fragile writer. I need someone to be like, this is still a good idea.

[Claude]

Oh, okay.

[Chantal Fernandez]

There's always like that cycle where it's like, I pitch a story, I'm like, have to do this. Then I start doing it and I say, I think this was a terrible idea. We need to cancel it. All the work, all the reporting is done. I'm like, we should cancel it. And then someone has to be like, no, it's coming back around. And then I sort of acknowledge that it can publish, you know, that kind of. It's like a psychological cycle.

[Claude]

Right. We're so back.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yes.

[Claude]

It's over. We're so back.

[James]

The human condition, honestly.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. I mean, writing, it's crazy sometimes I'm like, why is my job, like, doing college essays, basically, you know? Know? Yeah, yeah.

[Claude]

You guys avoided them going back to the fellas. What? How do you want to see men dress this summer?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I want to see Paul mescal style, little rugby shorts.

[James]

Really?

[Claude]

You do want to see that?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[James]

Those kind of got torched.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I know, but I think I'm. I'm. I want them back.

[Claude]

Cuz you're a men's legs.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. And I think there's Something like freeing about it. Oh, yeah. I mean, my husband would never wear that, but.

[Claude]

So when you walk down the street out here and you have shin scrapers on guys, how are you pissed?

[James]

Like, yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I think. I think we've got. We got to come back. Weird things have been happening in shorts for women as well. I feel like we.

[Claude]

Where we at? Tell us.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Right now, we're at Adam Sandler shorts for women, but, like, formal. Maybe like a pleated culotte.

[James]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

And now it's. It's. It's tipping into.

[Claude]

Not like Bushwick girls and N1 shorts.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Like, no.

[Claude]

Like a pleated.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Maybe like a business trouser fabric.

[James]

The M1 shorts of Tribeca are the culottes.

[Chantal Fernandez]

And now we're. We're tipping into Capri. That's what's coming back, so. Because I think this is all a way to elaborately avoid jean shorts, which are sort of the enemy now.

[James]

Oh, jorts are jorts.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I think for women are out.

[James]

Are guys. Are jorts on the table still on the menu? I feel like they kind of got played in our world as well.

[Claude]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

What's happening with jeans for men? I. I want. I want to see more men in jeans.

[Claude]

Really?

[James]

I feel like that's all I see. Dudes wearing, like, dude, like, menswear guys, jeans.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Menswear guys, like, light.

[Claude]

We're both wearing jeans right now, but not, like, traditional.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Not traditional jeans.

[Claude]

We're not wearing, like, vintage Levi's we still love in our fandom. But like, yeah, mine are gray. His are like.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I have a nostalgia. In high school, the boys wore, like, cowboy boots and jeans. I feel like, well, you're from Texas. Yeah, like, my.

[James]

My are back, you know?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, that's true. My prom was Texas tux. Do you guys know about this?

[Claude]

What's Texas?

[Chantal Fernandez]

It's tuxedo on top, jeans and boots.

[James]

The Ralph Lauren.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[James]

Oh, wow.

[Claude]

What else is out for the girlies?

[Chantal Fernandez]

What else?

[Claude]

Jean shorts are out. Leopards oak over.

[Chantal Fernandez]

It's still.

[Claude]

Still seeing a lot of red.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Still seeing a lot of red.

[Claude]

Primary colors.

[Chantal Fernandez]

The leopard, I think, is. Is on its way out. As I mentioned. I thought that trend was kind of crazy to witness. I'm like, which AI generated trend? Spotters sort of engineered this.

[Claude]

How much? Because in women's. It feels like it's at hyperspeed compared to men's. But how much of trends that are pushed are just, like, whether it's a content creator, an influencer, or a brand or merchandiser or a publication being like, this is what you have. This is it now. Because you have to, like, feed the beast. You have to feed the cycle.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I think it's. It's sort of related because we're buying what's available. Right. Like, most people are buying what's easily available. So if you go to Gap and there's like three leopard print things and you're like, okay, this is interesting. I don't think most people are saying, like, oh, I saw Charlie XCX wearing this and now I want it. So it's like kind of the market pushes it on reactionary to just one merchandiser and they. And they are looking at, like, what the taste makers are doing and then pushing it. Yeah, I think. But there is sort of a sheep mentality to it still.

[James]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Because we always say, like, there's no more trends, but I think there really are trends.

[James]

Who says that?

[Claude]

Like flip flops, for example. Right. That felt like it was something where it's like you're just. It's not a trend. It's an item that you need to purchase.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

It's not like a subculture or silhouette or like a. Even like a color scheme. It's like literally just item thing to buy.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. Like a Trader Joe's tote bag or like a certain water bottle. Yeah, something like that. Or something that gets dup.

[Claude]

The Kai Gerber hoodie. Like that. Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. I wrote last year, I wrote about the park sweatshirts. Do you guys know about this? This is like a woman's. This is like a college Central Park. No. Wow. You guys have missed all of this.

[James]

Tell us more.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Park P A, R, K, E. I don't know if you've seen young women wearing these sweatshirts. It's an influencer. She makes them. There's no returns allowed. I think they're each like $150. She's been doing it maybe like four or five years. Every drop sells out.

[James]

Out.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Wow. Like, the website crashes. She's had. She has to apologize repeatedly for not having enough.

[James]

Who is the person?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Just. Just girl.

[Claude]

Did she get famous from park or was she famous and drop simultaneous?

[James]

Wow. That's rare.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[James]

So people just like the design.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I think they like her. They like the design. It has kind of like a. Like a mock neck and it just took off. And it's like a. It's like a big ten sorority girl thing.

[James]

But it's like you'll sporty and rich. Rich kind of Prince Diana in the bike shorts.

[Chantal Fernandez]

And I don't know that these. This audience knows about sporting Rich. Because it's like, there's a couple of them. It's like daily drills. Dairy Boy.

[James]

We know about dairy.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay, so this is very similar to Dairy Boy, but, like, another version of that.

[James]

Another girl.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[James]

Crazy. Park.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Park.

[James]

So buy that for your. The lady in your life, fellas.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, well, if you're. Yeah, they. She probably already has it.

[Claude]

Yeah. Right. So the boys need to be wearing jeans, and they need to be. Be not. I think you're wearing short shorts.

[James]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Right.

[Chantal Fernandez]

And, like, that's. That's what I envision. You say, what should men be wearing this summer? Like, short shorts and maybe like, a wired headphone. That's. That's what came to mind.

[James]

I love Paul Mescal.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, that's what came to mind.

[Claude]

And a mullet. Yeah.

[James]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Okay.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Well, before you met the love of your life, Paul Mezco.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Did you date in the fashion world and, like, how much of that was a nightmare?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, it wasn't too much of a night nightmare.

[Claude]

Okay, what about what. You were on your first date with your now husband. Do you remember? And what did he wear?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I don't remember what I wore or he wore, but I do remember that I had my laptop with me because I had to work during the day.

[James]

What. What the. How did you survive that terrible first impression?

[Claude]

Was this BoF?

[Chantal Fernandez]

This was BoF.

[Claude]

What'd you say?

[James]

You brought it out on.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I was like, I'm sorry, I have to schedule this newsletter.

[James]

Oh, my.

[Claude]

Oh, my God. The newsletterification of romance.

[James]

Holy. You survived that or did he. Did he laugh it off? Or was he like, Jesus Christ, have some work life balance, lady?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I think a little bit of both. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[Claude]

So you couldn't do it on your phone for.

[Chantal Fernandez]

For. For multiple years when I worked at BoF, there's like a. The whole core of the business was this daily newsletter, and I scheduled it every day, and it had to be scheduled. It was rarely scheduled at 6. It was. Could be scheduled at like, 6. Like, 8:00pm, 9:00pm Ah.

[Claude]

You know, it could have done that. Claude. Cowork.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Claude.

[James]

No.

[Claude]

Yeah, Claude, schedule the newsletter.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Well, then I'm on a date. One time there was a. There was a time where there was chart of the week, and I had. I inserted a typo, and it said shart.

[James]

Oh, nice, dude. We love a little Shard of the week. Most importantly for everyone who has made it an hour 16 into the show, even though it's flying by, because this is so great, I would love to know what you thought of James's fits when you guys watch one out.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay, great. Now we're getting to it.

[James]

Yes.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yes. Was that you like, trying to ask me about dating you? James?

[Claude]

I. This Lawrence asked the question.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay.

[Claude]

What do you think of the fits?

[Chantal Fernandez]

How many of your former Paramores have been on the show?

[James]

Get in line, sister.

[Claude]

A few. How many park sweatshirts would be normal?

[Chantal Fernandez]

10 to 20?

[Claude]

No, no, no.

[James]

I don't think we're in double digits. No chance.

[Claude]

No.

[James]

But there's still time.

[Chantal Fernandez]

There's still time.

[James]

Yeah. That's a great.

[Claude]

We only like two dates.

[Chantal Fernandez]

That's true.

[James]

What do you think of the fits on dates?

[Claude]

And what year was this? Let's get some context.

[James]

He's in a butt wipe tea shot

[Claude]

of the week shorts.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Wearing micro nylon shorts. Let me open my brain. I think this was 2016.

[James]

Wow.

[Claude]

What a year. Because, Pablo, when everyone just discovered Supreme.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, I think this was 2016.

[Claude]

Msg.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I don't remember your fits, but I do remember there was a Halloween party where you wore maybe like a white

[James]

suit and a wig maybe.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

What is it?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Didn't you have like a Halloween or like, it was like a. A costume. An annual costume party. Am I inventing all of this? Or maybe it was like Christmas time. No, I think it was a Halloween party party.

[James]

You guys wanted a date to a Halloween, like a house?

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, but you were the host of the Halloween party.

[Claude]

What? No.

[James]

That must have been a different boyfriend, James.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, you hosted it with your friend.

[Claude]

Different ways in.

[Chantal Fernandez]

It's like, oh, every year I do this like. Or my friend hosts it and I always go, Halloween party. Really?

[Claude]

I don't remember wearing a white suit ever.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh my God.

[Claude]

Different ways in. I feel like.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No.

[James]

Yeah, don't get racist now.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, I promise you, you would have been in.

[Claude]

So you thought that my fits were so bad that you're like, they must be Halloween. You guys wearing a clown costume.

[James]

This guy's dressed up.

[Chantal Fernandez]

It was a Halloween costume.

[Claude]

All right.

[James]

So quite the impression.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I'm sorry, Talk about it was 10 years ago, right?

[James]

Exactly.

[Claude]

Not memorable.

[James]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Speaking of memorable, though. Highlight. Career highlight. You co wrote a book.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, yeah. Selling Sex with Lauren Sherman.

[Claude]

Okay. It's called. It's about the Rise and Fall. Victoria's Secret with Lauren Sherman. How do you co write a book? Is it like, I'll write this chapter, then you write this chapter. Like, how does it fucking work?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, kind of. And then just like talk about it and kind of split the reporting that way. But then things would come up or where someone would talk to her or vice versa. Or I'd, like, fill in a section. I mean, people are always like, how do you write a book with someone else? I'm like, how do you write a book alone? It's like, so much work.

[Claude]

How did you guys decide that you wanted to do that?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Think. We felt like there was a great Victoria's Secret story to be told. We both wanted to write a book, and there's not that many fashion companies that you can write about. It has to be something that has really, like, touched a ton of people.

[James]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

There's not that many fashion brands, literally. Yeah. Like, that people have an association with that. Just like Victoria's Secret book. Like, brand names book. You know, Calvin Klein book, Ralph Lauren book. There's only, like, a couple of those. And the brand was sort of tanking at that point, and we felt like the whole narrative in the media had been like, okay, me too. Angels are out of touch. And we felt like the real reason was deeper and more interesting and more layered. Like, that's part of it, but that's not the whole story. And the other aspect is that Victoria's Secret is sort of a vehicle to talk about. About the entire evolution of the American retail, American fashion business. Like, we're talking about fast fashion. The guy who bought Victoria's Secret was the first person to do fast fashion. He, like, invent. He was the first person to import clothing from abroad and sell it at mass in the United States.

[James]

Epstein's boy. Yeah, yeah.

[Claude]

How much of Epstein was in the book?

[Chantal Fernandez]

We sort of.

[Claude]

It's kind of like a little pre Epstein ish.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Moment.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. I mean, I now with, like. Did you guys go into the email else?

[James]

Did you read just keyword searching for fun stuff?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, yeah.

[Claude]

True. Bernard Arnaud.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. The shopping stuff.

[James]

Movie recommendations, etc.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. The emails were crazy.

[Claude]

How to get Jeffrey Epstein swag.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

For my substack. Totally.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

How to dress like loafers and jeans. Yeah, yeah.

[James]

He got fits off.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

He really mood borders love him.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Does the emails, like, really disturbed me even more than anything else. But the. Yeah. So I think we sort of corralled it into one chapter. Chapter. Because Epstein was, like, related, obviously, to Wexner, but his influence over Victoria's Secret as a business was. Was pretty minimal. So we sort of kept it all in one chapter. So if you wanted to just read that, you could just go to it.

[Claude]

What was like, the gross. Okay, Epstein aside, what was like, the grossest thing or maybe shot most shocking thing you learned when you're reporting on this, like, very uniquely American institution, like we. Yeah, we talk about.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I mean, one thing that I thought was interesting and I think a lot. Some other brands do this too. Multiple people told us that Victoria's Secret would buy products from other brands, change the tag and sell it as a way to test if there was interest, for example, in a new category in the store, like athletic leggings. You know, they would change the. Or a certain type of style of bra. They would change the tag, sell it in one of their stores, see what prices people were buying at it, and use that as like a test to maybe develop something similar to do, like

[James]

their own cheap way to do R D. Right. Someone else did all the work for you.

[Chantal Fernandez]

You. Yeah, I mean, the limited sort of worked in a version of that when it was really pumping in like the early 80s where they would buy collections from other people like Ralph Lauren and then send it to the manufacturers, change it and sell it in like the southern states where it was still warmer, and then for the next summer, whatever, in the rest of the country. I mean, that version is legal.

[Claude]

I think the, the, the version that you. The first version you're talking about.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, I don't believe so. And I think there were some lawsuits. Yeah. But that's what multiple sources told us that people were doing.

[James]

What kind of other well known brands? Or was it like kind of smaller, independent.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, like well known brands. Wow. Yeah.

[Claude]

Did I only know this because of the big short, but did the guy that the original founder, Victoria Secretary, actually kill himself?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, yeah.

[Claude]

Because he like missed out on Social Network. Social Network.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, yeah. It's like such a punchline. Social Network.

[James]

Yeah. Jumps off the bridge.

[Chantal Fernandez]

What we learned is that it was more complicated than that. Like, as you would obviously expect. And I think he was like a serial entrepreneur. So that was. He had cereal. He had. Before Victoria's Secret, he and his wife started a catalog that sold sex toys. And that's what sort of funded Victoria's Secret intimate business. Yeah, a different type of intimates business. So he did. He was always like thinking about new ideas and he. I think he was at a point in his life where he had kind of risked it all, filed for personal bankruptcy and was sort of trying to come back from that. But obviously he had other mental health issues.

[Claude]

Ah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

So it was not just about Victoria's Secrets or.

[Claude]

Or primarily about Victoria Secret success, Justin Timberlake, not facts.

[Chantal Fernandez]

But it is an interesting story because they. He sold Victoria Secret when it was pretty small and someone else Made it huge. And I can understand how that's really frustrating, but when Wexner bought Victoria's Secret, he already had a huge machine with the Limited that he sort of plugged Victoria's Secret into. Like, no regular person could have have created that system on their own. I mean, like, he did, but most people couldn't.

[James]

Can you clarify something just for me?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[James]

What is the difference between the Limited and the Limited two?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, my God. The Limited two was for tweens. Like, I shopped at the Limited.

[James]

Okay. That was a big. Because that was. I remember that was a big middle school mall.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, yeah.

[James]

T o o, yes.

[Chantal Fernandez]

The Limited two was, like children's wear, essentially, for, like, tweeny Girls. And that was for. There was a ton of businesses built to cater to millennials because we were, like, a huge generation jump in terms of numbers, like children, a baby. But boomers, we had money, blah, blah, going to the mall. So there's a lot of brands that were launched to sort of cater to us, like Limited two and then later Pink, you know, Claire's. All of these things. Like, this was to capture.

[James]

And Abercrombie and Fitch had just Abercrombie, which is also for like.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, my God. Yeah. Did you guys shop at Abercrombie, the kids brand? Are you too old for it?

[James]

Too old?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Oh, yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

You didn't. You didn't shop. Oh, my God. I remember Yellow Rat Bastard.

[James]

We all do.

[Claude]

Yep. Soul.

[Chantal Fernandez]

What happened to that place?

[Claude]

The bastards kicked the bucket. Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

That's what. All right, cuz. There's still, like, a store in that space on Broadway, isn't there?

[James]

Yeah, Right.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Like, I bought a beanie there once in a moment of desperation.

[Claude]

It's now like a. Now like a touristy. Yeah. It's like dog Broadway.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

What. How gross of a person is Leslie Wexner? Because I feel like he kind of is obviously mentioned in, like, the Epstein, but, like, kind of gets overlooked, I think. Just not even. Not even the pedophilia and the.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Well, okay, to clarify, like, he has not been accused of any pedophilia.

[Claude]

Good for him.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Or sued. There have been some comments in depositions that are not great for him, but it never came out of that. So it's.

[Claude]

So is he a good guy, relatively speaking?

[Chantal Fernandez]

My view about him on the Epstein thing, and he just did a video deposition about it, like a mic month or two months ago, three months ago.

[James]

Better late than never.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. It was really interesting to hear him talking because he's never really addressed this at All I think that he. If what he. His version of the story is, like, when Epstein originally was charged with bad behavior in, like, 2008 or 2006, like,

[Claude]

I was like, okay, is that what we'll call it?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Well, it was also, like, what he was charged with was a reduced thing. So it's like, I'm trying to be. I'm trying to just keep it vague because, like, what his official charge was was, like, less than what even the police had. Yes. So when that happens, yell red bastard. They cut. Wexner says they cut ties, and he realized that Epine had stolen a lot of money from him. Let's assume all of that is true, then. Wexner never told anyone about this. And it's like, that could have been a moment where he could have stopped someone. Like, he could have spoken to. I don't know. The police could have told literally anyone about this, and it could have. That could have been maybe a change in the trajectory of this man's life.

[Claude]

So it's almost as if it's web scene had, I don't know, blackmail on him, where it's like, oh, you stole millions of dollars from me, but I'm not worth pride.

[James]

He was embarrassed.

[Claude]

Probably not gonna say anything.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I think he was just. Didn't want to get. He didn't want to get involved with anything complicated. So it's like, okay, you're fired.

[Claude]

You knew Mossad.

[Chantal Fernandez]

And the thing that's interesting about the Epstein emails is, like, there's no. There's no correspondence with them because the emails start after that. So it's like, oh, yeah. They literally never spoke. And there's emails from Epstein, his associates, being like, can you get this message to Les? I know he won't answer my calls,

[Claude]

so he's not even a evil guy. He's just a dumbass.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Who Wexner? Yeah, I wouldn't say that.

[Claude]

I mean, he built a successful company.

[Chantal Fernandez]

He's, like, a billionaire out of nothing. Yeah.

[James]

Yeah.

[Claude]

But then he.

[James]

9.1 per.

[Claude]

This guy was charmed so much by Epstein that he's let him walk with, like, millions of dollars.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Well, at that point, he was, like, a billionaire million times. And when Epine paid him back, part of it.

[Claude]

Okay, so it's like, loose change in the couch for him.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. And I think he was like, fine, you're dead to me, and I'm moving on. I don't care. And then that's what he said. He's like, he was dead to me. And that was the end of it. But he didn't think to tell anyone about it, I guess.

[James]

Les vindicated.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Vindicated. He certainly hasn't had any. Like, I mean, he had to do this deposition, which I'm sure I was

[James]

shocked he's still alive, honestly. I mean, based on the deposition, they look at him, he's 88, like.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. I mean, he looked good in the deposition. Oh, really? Yeah. You should watch. He's got a nice little vest on.

[James]

Billion Billions of dollars will, I guess, keep you kicking.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, I mean, he's like a. I think he's like a health freak. Like a lot of these high performing executives are.

[Claude]

Yeah, yeah. Do you think that the Victoria Secret rebrand will ultimately be successful, or do you think they're just like, biding their time and they're.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, I think. I think it's never going to be what it was. Yeah, but they've been doing better recently. I think they've cleaned up the business, they've fixed some of the marketing. I just think it's never gonna have the insane influence it had over culture that it did, like in the 2010s. But it can still be a successful business at a different size. I mean, like, when. What was your first interaction with Victoria's Secret? Do you guys, like, remember being on catalogs? That was it. The print catalog.

[James]

Your mom, she was her. It was hers. Oh, they were her literature, bro.

[Chantal Fernandez]

You couldn't get something better. It was her literature.

[Claude]

Jesus Christ.

[James]

It's a family show.

[Claude]

I think I walked.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Is it?

[Claude]

No, I think I went into 1. 1 in high school with my girlfriend.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

And I was just like this. I felt like, Roy, what's his name? Oh, this is weird.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. You felt strange.

[Claude]

I was just like, I don't. This isn't gay.

[Chantal Fernandez]

You're like, I gotta get out of here.

[Claude]

High school.

[James]

Not like, I'm afraid I'm gonna have a boner in the store.

[Chantal Fernandez]

So you went to like a Manhattan

[James]

one out in Queens so no one would see you that knew?

[Claude]

Yeah, no, she's live in Queens.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay. Interesting.

[Claude]

I don't know, Shorty in another borough have stores now?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, yeah. They still have like 800 stores in the United States.

[Claude]

Damn.

[James]

What do the clo. What do the intimates look like? Is it still like sexy? Lacy Angel.

[Chantal Fernandez]

There's like a sexy category. There's like a more daily category.

[James]

Athleisure right in the mix.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, there's a ton of athleisure pajamas. The stuff they were always doing a

[Claude]

lot of the commercials where it's like, it's very. I don't know what to call it. Almost like fashion editorial versus, like, you know, like, ba, ba. Like, va va voom.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. So it's less like. I mean, Michael Bay literally did the commercial.

[Claude]

So that sort of Bay from Transformers.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, yeah. He did the big commercials every year for, like, 10 years old.

[Claude]

The old ones, not the new Ryan McGinley style.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Right. Like, it was like. It was like Rosie Huntington Wy walking away in lingerie from an exploding helicopter. Like, that element of it has gone away.

[James]

Or it's like cast her for Transformers.

[Claude]

Totally.

[James]

Because she was an angel.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Or one commercial was like Adriana Lima. Literally, like milk guzzling milk. Milk falling on her commercial.

[Claude]

That was milk.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Like, this is kind of a crazy situation.

[James]

It was a different time.

[Chantal Fernandez]

It was a different time. Like early 2000s, you know, MTV culture, Girls gone wild. Like, it. It wasn't that raunchy in the context of everything else that was happening.

[Claude]

Now it's like Paloma in, like, a Costa Rican surf town.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Like jumping off a pier.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Women want to feel comfortable.

[Claude]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

It's less like body positivity. Yeah. I mean, don't you feel like sex in advertising still hasn't really come back? Like, in the Me Too era? I feel like it totally went away and it still hasn't totally gone back.

[Claude]

Not a lot.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Tv, like, even just, like, sexy content in general. That's why people go crazy for, like, heated rivalries. Is there not that much gay sex?

[Claude]

But thank you.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Women are into it because it's sexy.

[James]

Oh, so it's like.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Like, my co workers lost their mind for heated rivalry.

[Claude]

What's the big.

[James]

Was it 831? Like the. Like how they, like, rebrand.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Like, the romance from Claire and Eric

[Claude]

Smut books are now the.

[James]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[Claude]

Okay.

[James]

Big business.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. But maybe because that's like, they're not seeing sexy content in something else. Like fashion advertising isn't sexy in the way that it was in the Tom Ford era.

[James]

No, it's more queer now. I feel like.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. Or it's like kind of ironic, intellectual,

[James]

referential, boring and terrible.

[Claude]

Thanks, Woke.

[James]

Bring back the twins.

[Claude]

Yeah. Bring back incest and beer commercials. What's your media diet like? What do you do? You read, Consume Watch. Right now, besides the Cut and New York Mag properties.

[Chantal Fernandez]

New York Mag, Wall Street Journal. I mean, substack. I. I like, I like.

[Claude]

What do you.

[Chantal Fernandez]

What do you popping around on there? I have to, like, rotate my paid subscriptions because otherwise I'll go bankrupt. Who are you with right now? Amelia Pacha, my friend. Eliza Brook has a great one. Liana has a great one.

[Claude]

What is Eliza's focus on?

[Chantal Fernandez]

1. It's kind of on a mix of things, just like culture, film, life in D.C. liana is a great fashion one. My former fashionista friend or fashionista co worker, Maura Brannigan has a good one. There's some mom ones that I follow. I don't even know those ladies names, but it's interesting.

[James]

What do you think of Alyssa now? Like.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, yeah, of course.

[James]

Alyssa magazine being like. And what Laura's built, where it's like she's building literally, like, a magazine media empire hiring people like Alyssa. Is that.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I mean, again, like, I think this is a team. It's in its ideal form as a te. Team sport. And I was edited by Alyssa, so I think that makes total sense. It's like, you need people to, you know, bounce ideas off.

[James]

I wasn't shocked because it's like, this makes sense.

[Chantal Fernandez]

There's, like, a couple people she employs, right?

[Claude]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Did you guys ever figure out who the anonymous fashion substacker that New York mag revealed their salary was?

[Claude]

Oh, we know who it's not.

[James]

Yeah, we. I think that some of the names that were thrown out, we were able to cross them off the list.

[Claude]

Did you?

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, but I think it's a man.

[James]

It was.

[Chantal Fernandez]

It wasn't.

[James]

I. That's how I perceive.

[Claude]

Was it 138,000 a year?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I think it was 200 and something, but only maybe, like, part of that was.

[James]

Right.

[Claude]

Right.

[James]

I thought it was subscription. A menswear subsacker. I thought it said literally.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, I don't.

[Claude]

I thought it was a woman.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, you thought it was a woman.

[Claude]

Yeah, just the way they. Because it makes, like, the. They made a majority of it off. Brand part partnerships.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay. And you think that's more of a

[Claude]

woman majority, but, like, a significant chunk of that yearly revenue was brand partnership.

[Chantal Fernandez]

And you think that goes to women more than men?

[Claude]

I thought it just read more woman than I thought. I know it's not Amelia. We know it's on Liana. We know it's not Jake Wolf.

[James]

Yeah.

[Claude]

I don't know.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Interesting.

[James]

I was like, if. And people were shocked at that number. And it's like, since we were on sub stack and we, like, knew what we were making, where we were, like, on the charts, I'm just like, this is the. Not the tip of the iceberg, but that's, like, pretty. Yeah, it's like they're making A great living and shout out to them. But, like.

[Claude]

But they're not.

[James]

If you're getting mad at that. Oh, you don't want to see some of these.

[Claude]

Well, we know they weren't top 10.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, well, sure. But I was thinking about it because, you know, obviously magazines, like, employing multiple people. That's like a whole other scale.

[James]

And affiliate link money for Laura is probably bonkers.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, probably. Yeah.

[James]

Because hers is free, I believe.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, it's not. Or there's a free version and a

[Claude]

paid version and then High Touch, the health and wellness or whatever she's calling it.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay. But before the launch of High Touch, I think some other part of it was paid.

[Claude]

Yeah, I think mag. I think magazine. Magazine is free affiliates.

[James]

Either way, it was like, because she's

[Claude]

not on the charts because she doesn't make revenue from substack.

[James]

Yeah. She was, like, pioneering a different kind of business model. And it kind of isn't still with, like, basically growing a medium.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Do you guys want to do more affiliate stuff?

[Claude]

We don't do any.

[James]

No.

[Chantal Fernandez]

You don't want to.

[James]

No, no. We're going to die on that hill. So we sound ethical and better than everyone else.

[Claude]

Do you think Flex Links is like, skewed coverage or. Or recommendations?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yes, of course.

[Claude]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yes.

[Claude]

You. We were never going to see Chantal shot my.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, no.

[James]

Even if it's that you were literally like, I love this and wear this. So if you did. If you're already asking me, why not? Why shouldn't I not benefit?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I mean, I could. I. I could. I could get myself to that place. But you're talking to someone who, like, posts on Instagram once a year, so I would need to, like, well, you're

[James]

about to pop off, so get ready. Why are you.

[Claude]

Why do you become a mommy blogger and again, exploit your child?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I know.

[Claude]

Living.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I should. I should be like, oh, I recommend these diapers. I've never tried other diapers. These are the best diapers.

[Claude]

The whole reason why people used to have children were to boost the family's economic value.

[Chantal Fernandez]

So why not, like, get the child to working? Yeah, yeah.

[Claude]

Why not just do that? Instead of, like, tilling the soil, just. Let's go try them. Have them try on some diapers. Try some food or whatever.

[Chantal Fernandez]

But then I guess I'd have to show his face. Face.

[James]

Sure.

[Claude]

His big reveal.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Well, big reveal.

[James]

Do you buy clothes for your husband and dress him up?

[Claude]

What's the.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, he probably would like me to do more of that. I mean, sometimes when he's like, okay, I really gotta. We go shopping together. We've. We've gone to Todd Snyder. He likes that place.

[James]

Do you like that?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Kind of. Yeah, it is fun. I think he, like, has high expectations for the clothing. So if it's like slightly wrong, he's like, no, we're done.

[James]

I mean, know thyself.

[Claude]

He turns. He turns off.

[James]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Like, I want to go home. Like, no, no. He's like, I don't want it. Sweet treat. Where I'm like, but maybe this is cute. We could do something different with it. Like once I was talking to Mickey, Mickey Drexler, who like, runs Alex Mill with his son or works for his son and Alex Mill. And I was like, he was asking me Nepo dad.

[James]

I was going to say that he was hired as a Nepo.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, he. I think he described himself as a Nepo father. Yeah. But I think he has said he's like a Nepo father.

[Claude]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

He was like, oh, did your husband like the stuff or whatever? I was like, oh, his arms are too long for all the shirts. And his response was like, oh, he just needs custom shirts. I was like, okay, well, I don't know if we need to jump to that.

[Claude]

Damn. Now I do got to become a mommy blogger.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, but that's. I have that issue too where my arms are too long for a lot of stuff.

[James]

You got a big Wemby style. Wingspan.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yes, exactly. Do you think he wear. I was just thinking about him last night. Do you think everything he wears is custom? Lv, but like, they make him like custom?

[James]

Yeah, in the atelier.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Leggings. Yeah.

[James]

Oh, you mean like for his equipment?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Like anything he's wearing at any given moment must be custom.

[James]

I think the, the civilian clothes are definitely from the atelier, but I don't know about his, you know, compression sleeves.

[Chantal Fernandez]

And probably maybe it's like custom. Nike or whoever he is.

[James]

NBA has a con.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Like, he can't go to big and tall.

[James]

I think he's not below his pay grade.

[Claude]

No, every. Everything is custom.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay, interesting.

[Claude]

So like, all the, the cool out shorts, those are his like Paul Mezcal shorts on him.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Wow, that's crazy.

[Claude]

Like his Nike sneakers, they need to make like one of ones for him, right? I mean like the Nike Jacques.

[Chantal Fernandez]

His shoe size is like 20.5 or something.

[James]

It's huge.

[Claude]

Big dick.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I don't know if that's wrong.

[James]

Uncircumcised too. He's French.

[Claude]

He's French.

[James]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Have you made, have you made a purchase recently that you Regret.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Whether it's so many. I. I regret so many fashion purchases.

[James]

What's the worst one?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I mean, the most recent one is I bought this weekend Max Mara pouch. That. That's like cow print on ebay. And it has a smell that I don't know what to do with.

[James]

What is. What is this professionally done?

[Claude]

Like, treat it.

[James]

Get it cleaned at leather spa.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I honestly was just like, I can't deal with this. And I just put it in a box and I put it away. But I need to think about it,

[Claude]

what it smell like.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I can't tell if it's like the leather itself or if it was something about where it was living before.

[James]

Musky.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, it's like. It's like a musk. It's musky.

[James]

It's your. You know, with vintage. That's the crapshoot. It's like, how was this stored?

[Chantal Fernandez]

And I can't, like, really return on.

[Claude]

Well, that's online buying.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I know. I hate that aspect of it, so I'd much rather buy in person.

[James]

Sure. Where do you smell the bag?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, you know, it's.

[Claude]

Where do you shop in New York?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I go to costs a lot. Like, if I'm in. If I'm in a pickle, which is like, usually when I shop, I'm like, in crisis. I need something to wear to something or like a wedding or something. Like, cost is great. I like Westerland. You know, that little boutique. It's kind of like a gorgeous corp, right?

[Claude]

Or Scandinavian.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. They have stores upstate. I really love that story behind the.

[Claude]

The big Fjall Raven craze of the early aughts.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[James]

Oh, the little backpacks. Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Outline. That, like, boutique on Atlantic is great. Those girls are really nice. They have the bro near where I live in Brooklyn. There's like that Phiwi and Kiwi and Fig stores. Like, the menswears one is Fig. It's great.

[James]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what you're talking about.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, those little stores are great, like, little boutiques. And I love Bergdorf's, you know, But I also love, you know, a. A, A Target, a Nordstrom. Give me what the people are looking at.

[James]

Target, Nordstrom are not in the same category.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, that's true. But a Nordstrom, like, I went recently because I wanted. Maybe this was like a year is. Or I was pregnant and then that changed things. But, like, I went to Nordstrom before that because I wanted lowrise jeans, and they didn't have any lowrise.

[James]

Why?

[Claude]

Because you were a sucker. You were succumbed to the trend.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, no, because I, I, I, I realized that like I actually should be in, I can't be in like a rib hygiene most of the time.

[James]

Oh, just like for you it's.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, it's not flattering because you're pregnant. No, this is before that. Just like, I have a short tour. Not everyone should be wearing high rise. That's what I realized.

[Claude]

That's true.

[James]

Now you. Well, I still do it anyway because I was.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh yeah, you guys had those high rise Armani pants.

[James]

I was like, yeah, but.

[Claude]

Well, I have a long torso. He's a short torso.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay, interesting.

[James]

But I still go high rise because I personally do like it. But I get what you're saying. I probably should go low.

[Chantal Fernandez]

That reminds me, when I was doing the Victoria's Secret book, they were talking about, I was talking to like someone who worked with the models and like at the body types. And they described one of the models as having, having. They were like, oh, she didn't have the right body type because her torso was too long. And I was like, what does that even mean? Like, why would that be bad? Because I'm like, oh, short torso would be bad. But what it meant, what it was like code speak for was that her legs were too short.

[Claude]

Ah. Which model was it?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I can't remember. One of the Brazilian ones. But yeah, it's like the way they talked about the, the models.

[James]

Yeah, just like piece, just like piece of meat.

[Claude]

Literally.

[James]

Right?

[Claude]

Just like fucking cattle. Crazy.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I could not, I could not be in that business.

[Claude]

I once, I guess produced a fashion show like on like the New York fashion calendar. And for who? What was the name? Names. But someone in the inner circle was like, fire that model. Like, this is the day of the show. And I'm like, she's like, she's fat. And I was like, I can't, I can't do that.

[James]

Fire that fatty.

[Claude]

And she's like, okay, watch me. She's like, I'm sorry, but like, you're not to going to work out by. It was.

[James]

You're fat.

[Claude]

This is terrible.

[Chantal Fernandez]

That's so crazy.

[James]

Yeah, that was Mark McNary.

[Claude]

I not going to name names, bro.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I think being a model is, is grim. I don't know if there's like a. It's such a tough business. The more I learn about it, I'm like, this is crazy.

[Claude]

Well, they're about to be replaced by AI, so don't. They're good, but they're not good.

[James]

It's only worse, I think, is what.

[Claude]

Yeah, they Got to sell the rights. How much money do you make, Chantal?

[Chantal Fernandez]

As like my annual salary? Yeah, I. I won't share.

[James]

We're not doing salary transparency.

[Claude]

What do you like to spend your money on besides your family? Besides clothes loads. What do you. Your hard earned money.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Subscriptions to things that I should probably unsubscribe.

[James]

Streaming stuff. Streaming services.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Streaming services. Yeah. I watch a lot of movies. Trying to think. What else? I don't know.

[James]

Do you.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Clothing. Clothing. I spend more clothing.

[James]

Go to the movies.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, yeah.

[James]

Okay.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

How much you spend on clothing a month?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I think it goes through phases where it's like, I haven't bought anything in like six months. And then I'll randomly buy these shoes.

[Claude]

Is this the last thing you bought?

[Chantal Fernandez]

One of the best things I bought, yeah.

[James]

Great purchase.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, these are great. I'm very into them.

[James]

Did you see Obsession and. Or Back Rooms?

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, because I can't do scary.

[James]

Oh, okay.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. Even though backrooms doesn't sound like it's that scary.

[Claude]

Did you see Scary Movie 6?

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, I can't do scary.

[Claude]

It's.

[James]

That's a comedy.

[Chantal Fernandez]

There's still violence, though.

[James]

Oh, you know, anti violence, girly.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Well, I've gotten better at it. Like, there's a lot of movies I've watched that I wouldn't have watched. Like the Godfather. I only watched maybe like 10 years ago because I thought it was too violent. And then I was like, I have to get over this.

[James]

You husband. This is bad advice. But you guys should see Obsession.

[Claude]

So much fun.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I know.

[Claude]

I need to see Star wars and Gru. Whatever the. That Mandalorian grew.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I haven't. I haven't seen any Marvel movie. I haven't participated in any of that Star Wars. I know, but it's related. Yeah, I haven't seen any of those big franchises. Like, I have tickets to go see the odyssey.

[Claude]

Oh, oh, IMAX.

[Chantal Fernandez]

IMAX. 70 millimeter.

[James]

You're about that life.

[Claude]

What. What row.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I. He. Daniel bought it, so I don't know, but it's like great seats.

[Claude]

From scalpers or from. He was just that there's scalp are reselling them for like, hundreds of dollars.

[Chantal Fernandez]

He and I were both on the website at the time last. I think it was Thursday at like, Nolan Family. Oh, yeah.

[James]

Okay.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. Disclosure day, all that stuff. But we watch a lot of Criterion. Do you guys watch movies?

[James]

Like, I bought him a Criterion subscription joke for. For a year.

[Claude]

I watched a movie about a Polish donkey that got sexually abused.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, yeah, I know that movie.

[James]

Yeah, right. Kind Of a stinker.

[Claude]

Weird.

[James]

Yeah. Criterion and I love it.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, yeah, it's so fun. There's so many crazy things on there.

[James]

New, new collections every month.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yes. Clock watchers themed. Yes.

[James]

That's a fun one.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Right now, I every, like, first of every month. We love to see what the themes are.

[James]

A family after my own heart.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I love when a theme is like mustaches or cats.

[James]

Damn. I'm rooting for you guys. I hope you make it.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Thank you so much.

[Claude]

Cats on there.

[Chantal Fernandez]

There was a cats themed one, but

[Claude]

was cats on there?

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, because it's like, you know, good movies already movies.

[James]

No, there's not always just good movies.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, there's some stinkers on there, but they're good for the theme movies. Yeah, it could be anything.

[Claude]

Half stinkers.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Like, this weekend we watched Master and Commander.

[James]

Oh, Far side of the world Banger.

[Chantal Fernandez]

So good.

[James]

Russell Crow.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I forgot how bleak that movie is. There's just like they're doing open brain surgery on the deck of the. Of the. Of the ship. Yeah. I love.

[James]

That's how it was, you know, I love Russell Crow. Same.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[James]

He's so fat now, it's even better.

[Chantal Fernandez]

But that movie is, like, very gay.

[Claude]

Yeah.

[James]

Yeah. They.

[Chantal Fernandez]

It's on purpose.

[James]

Those guys invented gay sex. Buggering the British Navy.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Wow. Yeah. There's, like, no women. I think that they, like, wave at a woman in the distance in that movie.

[James]

Fails the Bechtel test spectacularly.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yes. I think they talk about, like, female birds, but that's it.

[Claude]

Chantel, before I get you out of here, do you have any constructive criticism you'd like to give us?

[James]

Oh, yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh.

[Claude]

As a fellow journo.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, not all. I think you guys are doing really fun.

[Claude]

As a gentle woman and a scholar.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I do. I mean, I love the episodes where it's just you guys chatting. Is that. Is that unfair for me to say as a guest? Yeah.

[James]

Wow. Banger. Those are.

[Claude]

Confirm that.

[James]

That's our bread and butter. I mean, this is like a lot of people. More people will listen to you than to just us.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[James]

With that said, that's.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, I would have thought it would be the opposite.

[Claude]

What's your email?

[Chantal Fernandez]

Chantal fdz. Oh, sorry.

[James]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Oh, here she is.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Does it tell you when I subscribed?

[Claude]

Yes, yes.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, sorry. It was like.

[James]

Yeah, no, it's our. You don't need a.

[Claude]

Hey, hey.

[James]

She's a day one.

[Claude]

The check cleared?

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, but I had been subscribed to you guys before. Like, there's been many errands A lot of iterations.

[James]

Listen, thank you for your service.

[Claude]

We took a little spring break over in Substack and now we're back on.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Well, then that's how I Learned about your 10 year anniversary. I was like, wow, this is so.

[James]

Oh, true. That's right.

[Chantal Fernandez]

We were impressive.

[Claude]

Like, wait, is our 10 year anniversary.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Wait, what is your sort of. Is there some ambition of something that unexplored that you guys want to do?

[James]

No, I think we tried some of

[Claude]

that stuff in it.

[James]

We're here. We made some attempts, I think, think to like things that people would probably think about, yourself included. And it's just like, you know, some people need to realize, like, you find out what you're good at and you are best at and you just do

[Chantal Fernandez]

that when you feel like there's nothing going on in fashion. Is that frustrating for you guys to like find stuff to talk about or is it because you have no limits? You can talk about anything. It doesn't matter.

[Claude]

Like, yeah, I think fashion is like the portal to talk about culture. It's the commonality. Yeah, it's the portal of common commonality.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[Claude]

Right. It's not the, it's not the end all be all because like, especially menswear, not much is going on.

[James]

No.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. Why is that?

[James]

Because everyone is.

[Claude]

I mean, if you want to, if you want to force it, which a lot of these people do, we can be like, oh, yo, bro, like the whole black loaf or white socks phenomenon. Like, what's up with that?

[James]

Just make a meme and move on.

[Claude]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

But your memes are so good. Like, you just, you don't have to do much more than that. It's like you've done the meat.

[Claude]

That's our statement.

[James]

Yeah. And a lot of people, that's all they know throwing fits for is just like the meme memes that bang. So that's fine as well. They don't need to listen to us.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Has your passion to be like fans of different brands? Has it. Do you feel like it's gone down as the industry has gotten more fragmented and boring and aiified? Are you guys still fans? Fanboys at heart? Whatever. It gets your heart pumping, your enthusiasm,

[James]

but there's less new good if that's what.

[Claude]

Yeah, well, I think there's always more new. And whether it's good or not, I think we've hardened to because we're not as like wide open or like new to this. Right. So we have our like, tendencies and our affiliations and our loyalties already. And those are Already built in. I can't afford both monetarily and temporarily to like learn about and like get into all this new. And I don't want to.

[James]

I guess I'm a little different there. But I can't afford like I can't buy Hayden Tom Ford. I would love to. Like I will.

[Chantal Fernandez]

But you're not going to go to a store and try it out on.

[James]

No, that to me, I, I don't like shopping. That's just a personal thing. I'm not interested.

[Chantal Fernandez]

You don't like shopping.

[Claude]

That's weird. That's just laziness.

[Chantal Fernandez]

So. But you like having the things.

[James]

I like buying things. Like I, I, I don't want to go. I don't go to stores and try things on. I know I should and I think retail should exist just for me personally.

[Chantal Fernandez]

So you shop online and you return.

[Claude]

You go to the little cost store and buy 20 little cost polos.

[James]

Well, right now I have hyper fixation. So yeah, I bought a bunch of polos and I feel good.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Wow.

[James]

Yeah, I'm a hyper fixation guy. Honestly. That's really. What.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay, so now this is going to be your uniform.

[James]

Then we'll just.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay.

[James]

Summer will be a new thing.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I see. This is the whole summer. What's. Can you give me the top to bottom since I had to do it. You don't have to give me your underwear.

[James]

But like you want. You were doing fit checks.

[Chantal Fernandez]

The jeans are run out of time

[James]

and the shoes are the row.

[Claude]

Oh, James Post archive Fashion mules love our legacy jeans. Stussy Tea Fun.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay. Okay. Great.

[Claude]

Hanes boxers.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay. Thank you.

[Claude]

And you learn Zeno watch with the custom str.

[Chantal Fernandez]

No, that watch is very fun.

[Claude]

Thank you. Our legacy bracelet.

[James]

It's. I have to do laundry so today. Because I don't wear boxer shorts. He's a big boxer guy.

[Chantal Fernandez]

You're full commando.

[James]

No, no, no. I have. I'm wearing one of two pairs of boxer shorts that I wait for. You know, that's when it's time. These are always laundry.

[Chantal Fernandez]

And why are they at the bottom of the list? Is it a texture element?

[James]

I personally just ever. To each his own. Everyone's built differently. I just would. I prefer boxer briefs.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, I see. And these are just regular boxes or shorts. I see. So it's a lot of fabric. I understand.

[Claude]

Synthetics.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Synthetics. Are you guys anti synthetics like everyone else?

[James]

Well, depending.

[Claude]

Honestly, kind of. Yeah, I guess.

[James]

So like you want your jeans to be 100% well, you want your clothes to be. Yeah, Natural fibers.

[Claude]

Yes.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah.

[James]

Yes. But I'm not. But I guess some workouts, I mean, like, I'm not. I would sound like I will never buy any synthetics.

[Chantal Fernandez]

I mean, working out at 100% cotton is brutal.

[Claude]

You're.

[James]

No, it's actually, you're just really nice, to be honest.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Really? You're not just sweating?

[Claude]

Are you walking up a treadmill or are you doing like an actual workout?

[Chantal Fernandez]

If you're doing an actual sweaty workout, you're just mush at the end. Right.

[James]

You play tennis in cotton.

[Chantal Fernandez]

So cotton tops. Okay. But like your shorts.

[Claude]

Shorts are just like old Nike shorts,

[Chantal Fernandez]

but they're not cotton.

[Claude]

Synthetic, Synthetic.

[James]

Synthetic. Yeah. Nylon synthetics.

[Claude]

Yeah.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay.

[Claude]

Yeah. All right. Where can the kids follow you? Plug.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, I'm on the Cut. I am team player.

[Claude]

Shout out to the platform.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Well, yeah, foremost. Yeah, I'm. I love working at the Cut.

[Claude]

It's like, subscribe to New York magazine.

[Chantal Fernandez]

New York magazine.

[Claude]

How much is like five bucks? Some. What is it?

[Chantal Fernandez]

I don't have that name for.

[Claude]

They always go.

[Chantal Fernandez]

But you get a printed magazine, 12 bucks a year, special editions. The Cut has like a separate magazine that's extra. There's a lot of member perks now. There's a kind of like New York related perks that they introduce.

[Claude]

That's kind of weird where it's like free champagne at Bazar. That's kind of weird going.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Was that what it was?

[James]

Whatever, Whatever it takes to put a, you know, magazine in a mailbox.

[Claude]

You know, 100 bucks a year. No. Annual digital, 70 bucks a year.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, that's cheaper than a lot of subs.

[James]

That's free.

[Claude]

But the. The New York perks. I don't know what the other ones are. That's the only one I've seen recently. I was like, what?

[Chantal Fernandez]

It was champagne.

[Claude]

It was like, go to Balazar, get a free glass champagne.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Damn, I missed that.

[Claude]

I think it's still going on. You could.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Okay, great. Thank you.

[Claude]

So I think the Cut pays you enough where you can like shout Keith campaign. No.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah, that's true.

[Claude]

Or you just go and dine alone and you'll get a free glass of champagne. Allah. Chief Keef.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Oh, yeah, that makes sense.

[James]

Policy.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yeah. If you're reading alone. Right. Isn't that it? Instagram, Tik Tok, Twitter, Shantal, fdz. That's me. I'm on all platforms.

[Claude]

It's also your email.

[Chantal Fernandez]

Yes.

[Claude]

Yeah, well, I don't know about that.

[James]

All right, good luck with that, Shantal. Thank you for matter. Absolutely, Chef.

[Claude]

Take us out. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsement endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com Today

[Chantal Fernandez]

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