The Jay Massacret Interview with Throwing Fits

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Jay Massacret Interview"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Throwing Fits
• Host/Author: Throwing Fits
• Episode: The Jay Massacret Interview with Throwing Fits
• Release Date: May 21, 2025
• Description: Two grown dirtbags navigating the male zeitgeist, offering unfiltered insights into various topics. For more content, visit Throwing Fits on Substack.

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Introduction to Jay Massa Cray

The episode kicks off with a brief introduction of Jay Massa Cray, a renowned fashion stylist known for his work with high-profile brands and celebrities. The hosts express their excitement about having Jay on the show, highlighting his influence in the fashion industry.

Notable Quote:

"I'm all here for it. I'm just like, you know. I'm an old goose." – Jay Massa Cray [MM:71:46]

Journey in the Fashion Industry

Jay delves into his career trajectory, discussing his early days working in London during the booming early 2000s fashion scene. He recounts his time bartending at a trendy bar where he met influential figures like Alexander McQueen and Lady Gaga, which significantly shaped his professional path.

Notable Quote:

"There's nothing like the camaraderie of sitting around a table and brainstorming with creative minds." – Jay Massa Cray [MM:73:36]

Challenges and Insights as a Stylist

The conversation shifts to the complexities Jay faces as a stylist, especially in today's fast-paced, image-saturated world. He emphasizes the importance of creative freedom and the struggle to balance brand expectations with personal artistic vision.

Notable Quote:

"The expectation is always between the creative and, you know, the merchandising, the commerce thing. It's always been like that, but even more so now." – Jay Massa Cray [MM:12:07]

Evolution of Fashion Media

Jay reflects on the transformation of fashion media from traditional magazines to the dominance of social media platforms. He shares his perspective on how this shift has democratized fashion but also diluted the exclusivity that once defined the industry.

Notable Quote:

"Magazines are no longer the arbiter of culture like they once were. Now, they're more of a documentation of a time." – Jay Massa Cray [MM:75:24]

Personal Style and Influences

The discussion moves to Jay's personal style, highlighting his preference for brands like Orslow, Studio Nicholson, and Muji. He contrasts his understated approach with the more flamboyant styles of star stylists, advocating for craftsmanship and timeless designs over fleeting trends.

Notable Quote:

"Plain textiles and real craftsmanship—that's where I find my style inspiration." – Jay Massa Cray [MM:54:22]

Navigating Social Dynamics in Fashion

Jay shares anecdotes from his interactions with celebrities and other industry professionals. He emphasizes maintaining professionalism and the importance of intent in his work, especially during sensitive shoots like underwear advertisements.

Notable Quote:

"Everything's about intent. I'm not coming at them with anything sexual or creepy. It's about getting the job done." – Jay Massa Cray [MM:92:36]

Future of Menswear and Trends

Predicting future trends, Jay believes that the menswear industry will gravitate towards bespoke, understated brands that prioritize quality over conspicuous branding. He anticipates a rise in vintage and minimally branded clothing as consumers seek authenticity and durability.

Notable Quote:

"The future of menswear is all these little bespoke brands that feel special and don't have logos emblazoned everywhere." – Jay Massa Cray [MM:79:07]

Advice for Aspiring Stylists

Drawing from his extensive experience, Jay advises young stylists to understand the multifaceted nature of the role. He stresses the importance of seeing beyond mere clothing selection to encompass the broader cultural and emotional narratives that fashion conveys.

Notable Quote:

"Being a stylist is not just about putting on the flyest pair of pants with the coolest sweatshirt. There's a lot more that goes into it." – Jay Massa Cray [MM:65:59]

Closing Thoughts

In the concluding segment, Jay commends the Throwing Fits podcast for its unique approach and energy within the fashion ecosystem. He encourages the hosts to continue fostering creativity and authenticity in their discussions.

Notable Quote:

"I think what you guys are doing is awesome. You guys are doing your own little lane, and that's really cool." – Jay Massa Cray [MM:96:09]

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Conclusion: This episode of Throwing Fits offers an intimate glimpse into Jay Massa Cray's experiences and philosophies as a leading fashion stylist. From navigating the evolving landscape of fashion media to advocating for authentic and quality-driven menswear, Jay provides valuable insights for both industry veterans and aspiring creatives. His candid anecdotes and thoughtful perspectives make this interview a must-listen for anyone interested in the intersection of fashion, culture, and personal expression.

Transcript

[Jay Massa Cray]

This podcast is supported by the RealReal. Want to know the deal with the RealReal? I'm always shopping the RealReal.

[Unknown Host 1]

They drop over 10,000 new arrivals every.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Day from the luxury brands I'm obsessed with. All up to 90% off retail. Gucci, Prada, Louis Vuitton, Hermes, Dior, Cartier, Tiffany. P.S. it's super easy to sell on the RealReal. When I'm ready to part with my pieces, I can drop off or schedule a pickup. And they handle everything from photography to shipping. Everything. All I have to do is get paid and start shopping for my next favorite piece. With over 38 million members and 40 million items sold, the RealReal is the world's largest and most trusted resource for authenticated luxury resale. No one else can say all that because no one does resale like the RealReal. Thousands of new arrivals daily at 90% off retail. And right now you can get 25 off your first purchase at therealreal.com go to therealreal.com to get your $25 off. That's therealreal.com throw gang.

[Unknown Host 1]

We're joined by the lord of the looks, the sultan of styling, the editorial Emirati. I don't know if he's versed but he's pulling all these tops and bottoms. Not a set diva but it's campaign for his real friends and real pain for his cam friends. Used to have a vman but he's still a doll. He's got treats for the tricks. Might break you off a piece of his fashion bars when this cat gets his kit working with Vogue. That's Jay and ass Bob. Call him Andrew Tudan. And how he's shooting designer. Oh, you're not with his styling. How about he style lick these nuts? Getting paid for the work but he still loves the trade. You know we go in high fashion when Jay gets lit putting that shit on. It's a poo poo platter with all these samples. Stylist J. Massa Cray. Jay, how the hell are you?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yes, Massacre. I know when these nuts come in, it's about like you're. We're halfway through. These nuts is coming in. You love these nuts.

[Unknown Host 1]

We had to delete a line from the intro at the last second because we realized that your name is spelled A la chalamet.

[Jay Massa Cray]

A la chalamet. E T A. Sorry.

[Unknown Host 1]

Pronounced al.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Pronounced.

[Unknown Host 2]

So you're French.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, so I'm French. Okay.

[Unknown Host 1]

Well, we are both members of Club Massacre. We've been hyped on this one a while now.

[Unknown Host 2]

I feel like, we had to, like, not twist your arm. But this took some convincing. Am I correct in that assumption?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I don't know about twist my arm, but I was definitely like, oh, I'm going to hear myself talk. Like, let's go. More like took a little bit. Took a little bit of planning.

[Unknown Host 1]

You're a busy guy. You're a busy guy.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

So thank you for your time, Jay.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Thanks.

[Unknown Host 2]

We're happy to have you.

[Unknown Host 1]

You're like, flying out and then coming back tomorrow morning or like, you're all over the place.

[Jay Massa Cray]

All over the place.

[Unknown Host 2]

But we got you, so occupational hazard. So let's start with the fit check. Jay, what are you wearing today?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Outfit of the day. Like, this is like unboxing. This is like what girls do.

[Unknown Host 2]

I get.

[Jay Massa Cray]

All right. Outfit. Right, right. Fit check. I got some Loewe loafers. Heels down, heels down, stepping on the heel, drop the top some or slow jeans.

[Unknown Host 1]

What about the socks?

[Jay Massa Cray]

The socks, They're Muji.

[Unknown Host 1]

Oh, nice.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Muji lab.

[Unknown Host 1]

Okay.

[Jay Massa Cray]

You know that store in Paris So good.

[Unknown Host 1]

No? Is it like a Muji like.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Like just Muji clothes and it's like, you know, from Japanese sort of point of view, so it's all like, like, it's, it's, it's. It's amazing.

[Unknown Host 2]

Muji is very underrated. I feel like everyone obviously talks about Uniqlo, but.

[Jay Massa Cray]

And the. They don't have the clothes here somewhere? I mean, they have like a little section, but like in Paris they actually have like a whole store that's like full line.

[Unknown Host 1]

What is the mujis in Japan have like, full ass collections.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Very practical.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

Don't they sell everything? Like you can get a muji toaster. Am I bugging, like, don't they.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can get you. It's, it's, it's. It's idea of like Javan would like clothes. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Lifestyle brand is orslo your preferred denim of choice? Cuz as a western cowboy. What?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Western cowboy from the France French cowboy. I saw that in Brokeback Mountain.

[Unknown Host 2]

Y.

[Unknown Host 1]

Is that your denim of choice I'm.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Liking or slow right now? Yeah, I'm liking. I'm liking an orslow denim and then a studio Nicholson shout out our homies Pro club always.

[Unknown Host 1]

Oh, okay.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Always a pro club. So my. The next got to be up here.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

You know, really, you just want to be choked.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, I want to be choked.

[Unknown Host 2]

So we know what you're into. Good to know.

[Jay Massa Cray]

All right.

[Unknown Host 2]

About the shades and the croakies.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Oh yeah. The shades are Oakley's forever. Okay. And the croquis are Oakley's too. Oh, look at that.

[Unknown Host 2]

I love Croakies. Dude. I feel like not enough. I mean, I saw something where people were like used maybe one example or reference where like maybe it was going to be trending this year. Maybe one fashion brand did it. But I feel like it's an underutilized accessory. I feel like there it was, Jonathan Anderson.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It was a trend just like a couple years ago. Everybody had a neoprene one. This the, like the fat ones, you know, so a little, little skinny goes away.

[Unknown Host 1]

What about the panties?

[Jay Massa Cray]

The panties are Hanes.

[Unknown Host 1]

What type of panty?

[Jay Massa Cray]

We talk just, just a tighty whitey.

[Unknown Host 2]

Oh, really brief.

[Jay Massa Cray]

A brief. Okay, a brief. And it's got to be. It's got to be Hanes. I mean, I'll. I'll go to Sunspell maybe for a boxer.

[Unknown Host 1]

Feeling fancy.

[Jay Massa Cray]

If I'm feeling fancy. But at the end of the day, I'd rather see some like, you know, not too precious underwear when, you know.

[Unknown Host 2]

Skin marks and all.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, skin marks and all. Give me, give me reality. No photo.

[Unknown Host 1]

Mustard stains.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

The Will Charia predecessor. Any worn, any jewelry? Any hardware?

[Jay Massa Cray]

No jewelry, no. I got this little like. Oh, this little Rastafarian friendship bracelet I got with eight friends in Costa Rica about two years ago. And the only, only one that has it on still. Cuz they were all like, it's disgusting getting rid of it.

[Unknown Host 2]

It must smell, actually smell so bad.

[Unknown Host 1]

Any of those friends get braids while.

[Jay Massa Cray]

You'Re down there.

[Unknown Host 1]

Praise J. And you're sipping on some your tequila hoe in the summer.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I am a tequila hoe in the summer and a whis in the winter. All right.

[Unknown Host 2]

What a fun Thursday. Being a stylist. You could just have shots of tequila on a podcast. Must be nice. He's working so hard, ladies and gentlemen.

[Unknown Host 1]

Crazy. You getting liquored up for what show you seeing tonight?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Oh, yeah, I'm going to see Zach top Zack. Future of country. The future of country.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay.

[Jay Massa Cray]

He's great.

[Unknown Host 2]

Better than Zack Bottom. I mean, it was right there.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It's too easy. Zack verse.

[Unknown Host 1]

All right, Jay.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Thank you for making the time. Like we were saying, you. You're a hard man to pin down because like, how many days of the year do you estimate you're on the road?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Honestly, it. It varies, you know, but. But since I've met you, so I met you. What? I actually met you like a year and a half ago at this Hermes event.

[Unknown Host 2]

Was that when we went to Aspen?

[Unknown Host 1]

Like, what month that was?

[Jay Massa Cray]

That was a year. That was a year and a bit ago.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay.

[Jay Massa Cray]

And we started talking about coming on this, like, probably last fall.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay.

[Jay Massa Cray]

So that tracks.

[Unknown Host 1]

As soon as we saw the Hermes Thai Yeti. The Yet Thai.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yes.

[Unknown Host 1]

We were like, we gotta get there.

[Unknown Host 2]

You were like. It was like. You were there as, like. I don't want to say talent. Is that what. You were a guest and you did work.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I wasn't a guest.

[Unknown Host 2]

No.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Really? Did not get to ride. I did not get to ride the private jet, even though I tried to get on it. Really out. But I would. This is not. Honestly.

[Unknown Host 1]

Honestly overrated.

[Unknown Host 2]

When.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

When you're forced to sit in the. In the back, like, steer, like. Yeah, it was terrible.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It.

[Unknown Host 2]

Worse than cells. It sucks, dude. See, this is. This is a champagne problem that people don't know about.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Right? Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Okay, so. But yeah. So ever since six months ago, us.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I have been pretty busy.

[Unknown Host 1]

Nine percent of the time, I'd say.

[Jay Massa Cray]

No. No, no, no. I'd say about, like, a good 75%. Not good for relationships, let me tell you.

[Unknown Host 2]

You don't say. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

You have hoes in different area codes.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I'm gonna start having hoes in different area codes. I. I had a partner, but, you know.

[Unknown Host 2]

Oh, right.

[Unknown Host 1]

Jay's on the prowl.

[Unknown Host 2]

So you touch down, immediately, fire up Grinder. Is that the move?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Immediately.

[Unknown Host 1]

What's Grinder, like in, like, Paris?

[Jay Massa Cray]

You know, I don't really do Grinder.

[Unknown Host 2]

Oh, scruff.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I have done scruff.

[Unknown Host 1]

Sniffies is that one?

[Jay Massa Cray]

No, I don't do Sniffies.

[Unknown Host 1]

Okay.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Sniffies is just.

[Unknown Host 2]

Are you guys making these up or these?

[Jay Massa Cray]

It's. No, I don't know. Listen, you guys. You guys are, like, you know, the gayest straight guys I've ever met. Thank you. I. You know, I met you guys at Hermes. Their message. You guys were talking about hanging out Friday with your, like, gay bottom friends and just watching YouTube videos all night. Like, I don't remember which one.

[Unknown Host 2]

Remember that? That. That sounds like something.

[Jay Massa Cray]

One of you guys said that. And I was like, oh, I like these guys.

[Unknown Host 2]

These guys are gay as hell.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Like, like, second Friday of every month, we hang out with, like, our bottom friend and just watch, like, music videos with him.

[Unknown Host 2]

Dude, for sure.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

My wife is not a huge fan of that at the crib.

[Unknown Host 1]

Do you like being on the road so much, or is it just kind of like a perilous.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I'll say that. That's. I think it's It's. It's part of the. It's part of the trade. You have to kind of jump around at a minute's notice and your schedule changes all the time, and it's hard to make plans, but it is. It's the joy of it and the, like, the hardship of it, too, because it's. It is. It is tough to sort of duplicate yourself and be. Because you're, like, constantly, like. Like you're working on three projects at the same time sort of thing. And it's hard, like, for your head to just keep shifting around. And, you know, these kind of creative ideas, they don. It's hard to just put them on paper, you know, it's. It's a continuous thing that kind of, you know, develops. It's a. It's a work in progress, as always, you know, so it's. It's hard to, like, sort of just like, jump into a project and just be like, okay, well, now I have to jump into this.

[Unknown Host 1]

You know, as a stylist, though. So do you, like, you have a little notebook? I mean, are you super organized with, like, understanding the creative briefs and. And things, you know, collections that you want to get into from the archive or from present or even the future? Or are you just, like, winging it anytime you show up on set?

[Jay Massa Cray]

No, no, no, no. You know, my job and the stylist job just really varies from different brands and what. What the expectation is from the brand. You know, sometimes I'll just want you to come in and just, like, you know, just out of racks, make stories with them, you know, out of already designed clothes, make stories. Or you're coming in and. And you are literally just a dresser on a shoe, basically, and you're just kind of consulting on that, you know, or you're starting from the ground up, or you're, like, sending, you know, references and mood boards, and that's. That's the most rewarding, obviously, you know, and when there's trust between the creative director that you're working with or. Or, you know, the house that you're working with or the brand or whatever, you know.

[Unknown Host 1]

How many miles do you have at this point?

[Jay Massa Cray]

How many?

[Unknown Host 1]

I mean, like, frequent flyer?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Not enough.

[Unknown Host 2]

You ran through?

[Jay Massa Cray]

No, I did this thing. And I mean, I. This. This is. This is me in a nutshell. I've, like, kind of, like, saved them all, you know, like, I kept them all there for rainy day, and you know, how they lose value as they, like. So I've just, like, I've. I've done so I've had so many. I don't know, I probably have like a million or something, but. But you didn't lose it. But list business flight is. Is a million. Yeah, yeah, it's literally a million now, you know, so, yeah, it's, you know, I'm just hoarding.

[Unknown Host 2]

Is the travel part of the gig, the. This occupational hazard. Is it still inspiring or are you totally jaded and over it?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Oh, it's rough.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah. Okay.

[Jay Massa Cray]

You know what it is? It's the jet lag and being. And having to. It's really that. It's the, the moving around and being in a different place and having a different sort of reality for a week or whatever, like, that's, that can be really cool. But when you have to keep on like going back to Europe and if you're going to Asia too, too, like, it's just like, it's a lot.

[Unknown Host 1]

Bob Harris and Lost in Translation. Just jet lagged and faded out of your mind. He's trying to fuck a 25 year old.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I mean, I guess permanent existential crisis possibly. Just like, honey, what's my life? Yeah. Except that he was just getting, he's just getting like, you know, like, just pulled around to different things and just like, you know, I have to like come in and like, you know, brands will be like waiting for you and they'll all be standing there with big eyes and you're walking in to a whole new sort of like if it's a new brand you're working with, to a whole new, you know, network of people and they're all there waiting for you to, to solve whatever problems they have.

[Unknown Host 1]

Are you so you like a problem solver?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Well, there is that, There is, there is that aspect to, to every stylist job that comes in, you know, because it's like you have the brand, they get the creative director, creative director gets its. The stylist. You know what I mean? Like, it's all just like. So there's always this sort of like, oh, what can you. What can. You know? But it, but it also really depends on the different relationships between brands, slash, creative director and stylists.

[Unknown Host 1]

So are there any like, you clients are having expectations that are just impossible to meet whenever you walk in on set and they're just like, all right, like you're the stylist is here. Everything's going to go right now.

[Jay Massa Cray]

When they just cut when they want. It's hard because things have changed a lot because of the amount of images that were kind of contained. You know, I started Old school. I started pre Internet, you know, like. Or not pre Internet, but pre social media. Sure, yeah. You know, so it was just like blogs, but no, like, you know, there. We. We. We weren't. You. We weren't like. We weren't seeing these images, like, all day long, this amount of images. So now they're. They're, you know, you have. They want like, you know, 10 pictures of like, these subpar sweatshirts or whatever. Do you know what I mean? Like, whatever the thing is, you know what I mean? And you have to somehow make that interesting. But then they just keep on like, adding, like, oh, and what about this? And what about this? And then you're kind of like, well, where's. You know, how are we going to. This is all going to water it down, you know, so it's the expectations of like. Of like them wanting to make sure that you're shooting. The expectation is always between the creative and, you know, the merchandising, the commerce. The commerce thing, you know, and, you know, I mean, it's. It's our. In commerce. It's always. It's always been that, but even more so, you know, and I don't think. I'm always, like, shocked because I'm like, you know, I'm not sure that, like, this picture actually sells, like, sweatshirt. You know, I think if anything, whatever sort of, you know, mood and sort of idea that you're putting out, that's the important part, you know, like what. What it. What it's coming out to, what it's making you feel like, whether it's a nostalgia thing, whether it's like, you know, whatever the aspiration. Aspiration. Whatever the thing is, you know, like, that's. That's. That's what you really try to get out of these. The. Of this content that we are now, because now we're doing content, you know.

[Unknown Host 1]

Like, are people just. Do they want too much and they're like. They're scared to, like, edit and like, they.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I. A lot of times they don't know what they want. That's what I'm saying. You walk in and they're looking at you like, just like your ex.

[Unknown Host 2]

Wait, so when you. Do you see yourself as then like this creator of content, or do you still think of it more maybe a highfalu and artistic way? Like, are you an artist? Are you content creator?

[Jay Massa Cray]

There's part of.

[Unknown Host 1]

Part of get ready with Jay.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Coming soon. I mean, it's, It's. It's. I have a. I have an artist mind. I Have a creative mind. So I'm. I'm always kind of. It's not, you know, I'm always like, whenever we're doing pictures, right, I am coming in with the fashion aspect, right? The clothing, how that sort of fits in the picture. What you can't ever do is that the end result. Well, no matter. Everyone that's working on that is that image. That's it. So it doesn't matter what everyone else is doing inside of that image. So you can't. You can't. Like, basically, I'm just trying to say that the image is the final sort of thing. And like, you can't. Sort of like, you. You're gonna have to take away some of the. You know, like, sometimes it's not, you know, it's the styling, sometimes the hair, like, whatever. But I'm trying. I'm trying to find the word, and I can't.

[Unknown Host 1]

Very Chairman Mao sacray. The ends justify the means, right? As long as you arrive at final image that you. That you like, or. Here's how we get there.

[Unknown Host 2]

No, but you don't like it.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Who cares how to get there? Like, it. Doesn't everything matter. That's what matters.

[Unknown Host 2]

The destination.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Not that the, like the sweat. Like, you know, that's. That's. That's like. That's like shooting yourself in the foot.

[Unknown Host 1]

The journey isn't the destination. The destination is the destination.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Destination.

[Unknown Host 2]

That's all that matters.

[Unknown Host 1]

Have you. So, like, what's been a. Like maybe without naming names, without hurting any feelings, and without maybe compromising any future bags, what's been a recent challenging gig? Like, walk us through the particulars and what.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I don't know about tough, I don't know about recent, but maybe it comes down to what I was just saying a little bit. Like, but. But just in general, I mean, this is something that can happen anywhere, you know, and it's when the brand sort of has us. When you are coming in as a stylist to. To shoot in an advertising or a campaign and. And the house or the creative designer or whatever has a real sort of specific idea about what the look looks like, but then isn't. You know, isn't seeing it in context with what's happening in front of you? You know what I mean? Like, they're seeing it, like, as. As they were, like, against their white sort of backdrop, the idea look as it was. Yeah, it's great. But then you kind of put it into context, into a picture, into whatever mood. Like, I was just talking about whatever energy aspiration it's giving you. And then it's kind of like lost in the thing because you're not. You're no longer in a lookbook scenario, you know, like, so you're. You're. That, that's, That's. That's a challenge. Nothing recent. It's just like that. That just sometimes, you know, just depends.

[Unknown Host 2]

On your cost of doing business.

[Unknown Host 1]

Creatives, man.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

So, like, are you gonna. You're on the road 75 of the time, like you said.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Are you. Do you not turn down jobs? Are you just accepting everything that comes your way?

[Jay Massa Cray]

No, no, we definitely turned down jobs. Okay. Because they can't make it. Or, you know, but, but, you know, I mean, I'm always up for a challenge for a brand and, you know, and then it depends. Then it depends on trust that the brand has with you or, you know, and it can be anything. They might just not like something that you're wearing that day or, like, really what. I mean, you know, you. I don't know.

[Unknown Host 2]

It's a superficial industry for sure, but that's extremely superficial.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Well, you know, whatever. Whatever. The thing is, you know, like, there's always. There's. There's always that to kind of contend with for sure. Because you're, You're. They are projecting some sort of thing on you, you know, when you walk in. So, like, you know, do you ever.

[Unknown Host 1]

Feel like you switch up, like, your personal swag to fit the gig code?

[Unknown Host 2]

Switch?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Not really, no.

[Unknown Host 1]

I got to wear.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I got to figure out how to.

[Unknown Host 1]

Put on this call.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Big arse. Not really. I do like to wear a shirt at work. Like, sort of like, keep it. Keep it clean, you know, Like, I do.

[Unknown Host 2]

Classy.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I do. I mean, I have a bit of a uniform, you know. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

What's your uniform?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Like I said, like, it's kind of a shirt and like a pant and like, you know, it's very, very, like just kind of goes away because I'm trying to. I'm, you know, you. You know, we talked about this a little bit. Like, you know, the kind. Like why stylists dress so plain or what? Like, you know, and.

[Unknown Host 1]

And you, Mel Ottenberg, Jason Ryder, are the three that come to mind for me.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Well, it's, It's, It's. It's. It's. You're walking into. Every time there's this new idea about what this brand is supposed to be. You can't, you know, you're coming in, but showing like. Like a certain thing. It's like, it's Too much, you know, like, and you have to kind of have a little bit of a uniform too, you know, just in general, just to go through life.

[Unknown Host 2]

Is that more of a symptom of being an editorial stylist versus, like a celeb stylist who's like a huge personality in their own right? Like, maybe, maybe there's, Is it a different skill maybe?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I think so, yeah. And I think a celebrity stylist too. Like the, you know, the, the, the, the, the artists you're going to be working with is going to want to like, you know, it's going to look at you and be like, oh, I fuck with that. You know, like, like, you know, it's not a brand. Yeah, this is a vibe. This is the vibe I want to get into, you know, Like, I don't know if, like, you know, it's not really the same with, like, brands, you know.

[Unknown Host 2]

Gotcha.

[Unknown Host 1]

Have you ever had any aspirations to be a celebrity stylist?

[Jay Massa Cray]

No.

[Unknown Host 1]

You prefer editorial and I prefer editorial.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I've, I've not, It's not, it's not. I just haven't done many celebrities, you know, I mean, skims. Oh, yeah, well, yeah, but that's like a shoe. That's like, you know, I, I, you know, it's not red car. My closest thing to celebrity was probably Lady Gaga on. Okay, well, I introduced her to McQueen. Yeah. So, so that we were, you know, she was playing, I was trying. He notoriously didn't, you know, with celebrities. You know, he had done like the Bjork cover, but like, he was really, like, not really into dressing celebrities, you know, and this is pre, pre social media, so it's like, you can still do that, you know, like, it's allowed. And I, I was, I, you know, I was telling him about Lady Gaga and how there was this like, girl that was Stephanie, Stephanie Germanata that like, you know, kind of didn't give a. And like, I'm sure no one lent her clothes and somehow they were like, you know, pretending to have like, Margiela shoulders and their suits, you know, like, or, or like a Hussein Shaline bubble dress or like, you know, but. And it was, it was like sort of like post indie sleaze. So she was taking all of those kind of like, you know, those kind of moments and she's kind of being ironic about it. And I thought that was kind of fresh. And we went to the Brixton Academy and then like, Matthew Williams was actually.

[Unknown Host 2]

Dating her at the time, probably. Right?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Dating her. And we're Working with her. Yeah. And we went backstage and then like, you know, he met her and they, they loved each other. And then like, you know, and then the bad romance thing happened and then Star is born. The star is born.

[Unknown Host 2]

That's crazy.

[Unknown Host 1]

When your editorial work does involve a celebrity, do you have to treat them differently as a stylist? Do you treat them differently than you would just.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Definitely.

[Unknown Host 1]

Clothing rack.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, definitely. Because it's no longer this. Even though celebrities now are getting a lot more like they want something offbeat now, there was a time when they quirked up, they want to be quirked up more so than they were, you know, pre social media.

[Unknown Host 1]

Right.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Like in, in the arts, let's say.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

You know, or like Even the early 2010s, you know, like, like, like they, now they want to, they. Because there's just so many images. You better, you know, do something that kind of stands out.

[Unknown Host 1]

Do something crazy.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Something crazy. Wear a crazy shoe.

[Unknown Host 2]

So social media is bad for fashion because you've been there, you've been there before. Like you know, BC ad. Right. Is it, it is.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I, I, it's, it's the, the if, you know, you know, aspect of fashion is gone with social, with social media now everybody knows has a fit, has a, is a drip or whatever the fucking thing is, you know, whatever the thing is. You know what I mean? Like, everybody has, has, is able to like, you know, before you really had to like sort of, sort of find a way to get in there, you know, find a way to sneak into the Marc Jacobs show. Find a way, you know, and those were the greatest times, you know, but be part of the secret society, you know, that seems so exciting.

[Unknown Host 1]

But, and you think that, that it being more inclusive and less gatekeeping is.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I don't know if it's that, if it's inclusive or gatekeeping. It's, it's that, I mean, you know.

[Unknown Host 2]

Double edged sword kind of.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It's a double edged sword. Yeah. Because it's great that there's that, that it has opened up and it is, it is really good because suddenly like it was getting real. Fashion was getting really, really stale.

[Unknown Host 1]

We're going to talk about your time at V and V, man.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Wow.

[Unknown Host 1]

Psychotic era.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Wow.

[Unknown Host 1]

That's all I'm saying.

[Unknown Host 2]

Truly.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah. It was a, it was a good era. It was a good era. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Don't know if you go back to it.

[Jay Massa Cray]

No, no, I forgot what I was saying. But anyways.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah, but okay. With Gaga. Gaga.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Gaga. Gaga, yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Someone that you worked with.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Well, I didn't work with her. I. I never worked with her, though I did sit with. We did sit with her, like, a bunch of time. Like, this is, again, pre social media. So we're like. We're sitting with her in a pub in, like, London, and we're telling her about, like, different hats to wear. Like, you know, like. And it's funny because I even remember. I don't know what the fuck I was. I was, like, looking back at, like, text messages with her, and there's this one, and it's the last sort of text message I have with her, and she's like. She's like, something about, like. She's like, did you want to come and, like, be, like, creative director of the tour? I'm really, like, kind of. And I was like. I said something like, I was kind of busy on a project or something, and I did. And I'm like, what the fuck was that? Like, yeah, dude, I totally missed the mark with that.

[Unknown Host 2]

Right? You missed the boat. You missed the Gaga. Titanic. Well, I guess that would imply that it sunk, which it didn't. But the cruise ship. You know what?

[Unknown Host 1]

So who's, like, the nicest celebrity you've ever worked with?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Kim's pretty nice. Yeah. I mean, she has to be, right? She's really. She's. She's.

[Unknown Host 2]

She's.

[Jay Massa Cray]

She's really.

[Unknown Host 1]

Rob her.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I've never really, like, gone into anyone that's like, you know.

[Unknown Host 1]

Really?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah. Honestly, maybe once. What's the.

[Unknown Host 1]

You know, this is, you know what for.

[Jay Massa Cray]

For a commercial job once. Pierce Bro 2000. Oh, no. Was a little, like. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

Really?

[Jay Massa Cray]

What the.

[Unknown Host 2]

That's a bummer, dude.

[Jay Massa Cray]

But you know what? In his defense, it was. I don't even remember what kind of ad job this was. This was some, like. I honestly have no idea what the brand was. He was on a boat. Like, it was like a rowboat and, like, inside of a studio. Like a fake sort of, like, you know, And I'm like. I'm sure. He was like, you know, what the Am I doing?

[Unknown Host 2]

This is James Bond. He's used to being on location, you know?

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

He was having a bad day.

[Jay Massa Cray]

He's not a bad day.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay.

[Unknown Host 1]

His son is a model now.

[Unknown Host 2]

Right.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I see.

[Unknown Host 1]

I think so.

[Unknown Host 2]

A lot of these guys, their sons are models.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I'll say.

[Unknown Host 2]

We got good genes, literally and figuratively.

[Unknown Host 1]

All right, let's go back to the clients that you work with, though. You mentioned that, like, some clients are stifling you, or they. They kind of don't know what they want what client does give you as a stylist the most creative freedom and room to do your thing that maybe you have like a long term work relationship with?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I mean it, honestly it depends on the, on the relationship with the, the creative director or the brand. If they trust you, then they'll, then they'll let you, you know, kind of push it and be a little bit more, you know, but it all parameters aren't bad. Parameters are good, you know, because we are working. In other words, what are we doing? You know, we're just, you know, I had, I had this, this, this consultancy with this Chinese brand and it was actually kind of great. Like we were doing really, really cool stuff and we kind of had carte blanche to do like whatever we wanted to and it was really, really fun, but there was no back end to it. We would do these little projects and you know, it's such a big company that like there was no, there was no planning on how to like, you know, we do a show and then it would be like, you know, it'd be great but then it would just kind of like there was no follow through. Like it's all, you know, you have a sweatshirt, you show it, then it has to be on a celebrity, then you have to put it on some posts. You know, I mean like there's, it's got to like naturally grow like that. Just doing a fashion show, just a cool picture, just a cool sweatshirt with a cool pair of pants. Like that's not enough.

[Unknown Host 1]

So are you, are you the person to be like, hey guys, I know I'm just here to like make this and it's all about the final image. But also like, let's talk strategy.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Well, it has to be. Yeah, I mean I'm not, I'm always thinking like that when I'm working with a brand. For sure. Like not, you know, I want to want, I want it to look the best it can possibly look. But also like, you're more like. But also like what's the, what's the, like what's, where is this going?

[Unknown Host 2]

You know? Intentionality.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It can't just be just like a clown show. Just, just, just, just for the sake of being a clown show.

[Unknown Host 1]

So why are you charging marketing consultant prices?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I don't know. Don't talk to my agent.

[Unknown Host 1]

Who's your agent?

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah, right.

[Unknown Host 1]

Talk to TF Creative Industries up here. So is there with, in terms of the creative director, like who do you love having that push and pull with? Like who, who, who do you really have? Like the. Just the best work relationship with.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Well, I mean, right now I just, I, you know, I'm doing some stuff with Hater Ackerman on Snow Goose. And the Sexy, sexy man. Sexy, sexy man. And the sexiest. The sexiest. Yeah. And the fun house. And he's so great. And he's really up for, like, playing and like, you know, and I mean, you know, I think, I think this is like, you know, he's got these two dualities with him. He's got that like, you know, that high fashion sort of Tom Ford thing, but he's also really into nature and this kind of like, like, sort of like, you know, he can put all of that energy into. Into, you know, that sort of project. So.

[Unknown Host 2]

Canada Goose stuff.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, the Canada Goose stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

[Unknown Host 1]

Is it true he's a fantastic dancer?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I haven't danced with him yet.

[Unknown Host 2]

Well, key word being only.

[Unknown Host 1]

Only cerebrally.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Cerebrally, yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

You ever been out with him and like, just with the club? No. Damn.

[Unknown Host 2]

Very professional relationship.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Professional relationship.

[Unknown Host 1]

What client pays the best.

[Jay Massa Cray]

What kind pays the best?

[Unknown Host 2]

Chinese. Chinese clients.

[Unknown Host 1]

And on time.

[Unknown Host 2]

None of them.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, it really. It runs the gamut.

[Unknown Host 1]

Who pays the worst?

[Jay Massa Cray]

The slowest Editorials where you're basically. Well, you're basically spending your money on editorials.

[Unknown Host 2]

So you're still waiting on some checks.

[Jay Massa Cray]

From like 20 years ago from different. From different publications.

[Unknown Host 2]

It's net 30.

[Jay Massa Cray]

You're. You got $250 to make this shoot happen. We'll send it to you in 10 years.

[Unknown Host 1]

Also, details no longer exists.

[Unknown Host 2]

Sorry.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Right, right, right.

[Unknown Host 2]

You can't even. Sue magazine. That doesn't exist anymore.

[Unknown Host 1]

Jay, we want to pick your brain on some kind of like, larger topics, you know, zooming out of like, your. Your job as a stylist and really just marketing guru. Really Sounds like you actually are.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Marketing strategies.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Sure.

[Unknown Host 1]

Do you agree with fellow fashion genius, the homie, the mutual homie, Jesse Hudnut, that. That in today's world, straight guys that are into fashion are kind of like dressing like what they think gay guys dress like, and gay guys are actually dressing like straight guys in some stables. Why do you think that is?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Oh, it's a big question. And it's true.

[Unknown Host 1]

Look at us. I mean, this is.

[Jay Massa Cray]

No, I mean, hell, boy. It's. It's literally like. It's like sports betting for you guys, you know, like, and, and, And I love it. You know, it's like you guys know the. Every single watch every single little detail where this is coming from. Like, it's a real. It's you guys are nerds about it, and it's great. And I think gays and, and, and it was like. I remember when I, you know, was working in the mid aughts, there was no straits in fashion. It really wasn't. It was like the good old days for you. It was an anomaly. The good old days. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

Make fashion day again.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Totally.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

So, I mean, you know, I think, I think gays have been dressing like straight stereotypes forever. I mean, if you think of the Village People.

[Unknown Host 2]

Right.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Hey, if you think of the. The gayest person in our orbit right now, like the president. You know what I mean?

[Unknown Host 1]

Like, first gay. First. First. Second gay president.

[Unknown Host 2]

First female president.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I mean, that guy, like, you know, he's very campy. Yeah, he's super camp. His favorite song is YMCA True. He likes to. On a gold toilet and he's drinking.

[Unknown Host 1]

Off two dicks at once.

[Jay Massa Cray]

And it's like, you know, the, the completely like, you know, the amount of time he has spent with his hair and like, you know, like, you know, the metrosexual down. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

One doll we don't want to protect.

[Jay Massa Cray]

So I don't know, I think there's, there's. There's part of like gays, Gays not wanting to feel too precious maybe, you know, whereas maybe like, streets are a little bit more like, oh, look at all this. Like this. This is like, you know, and, and yeah, I think, I think this idea of not being too, you know, precious like this. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Is it reclaiming masculinity? Because, like, as a gay man in America, your masculinity is. Is taken from you or chipped away at a little bit.

[Jay Massa Cray]

No, this is. There's. There's definitely some aspect to that. For sure. No, no, no, for sure, for sure, for sure. I mean, I even remember when I first started in fashion and you know, when you're talking about code switching, I would sometimes come on a job and then have to camp it up a little.

[Unknown Host 2]

Oh, be gayer. They want you to be a little bit.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It's. It's not. They. I was projecting that on myself. I was like, oh, I. I have to come in here and be a little bit more like, you know, a.

[Unknown Host 2]

Little bit more the stylist.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Bigger that. That sort of like, until I realized that was not.

[Unknown Host 2]

That's a craker.

[Jay Massa Cray]

You know, slay.

[Unknown Host 1]

That's.

[Unknown Host 2]

That's a slay. That. That's a free one for us.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Damn. Slay massacre.

[Unknown Host 2]

What. What made you realize that you didn't have to do that? Is that Just maturity.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, maturity. Maturity and understanding my position in the sort of, like, space and having confidence and, you know, and not, you know, not relying on this sort of, like, you know, idea of, like, you know, fake it till you make it, then you're gonna do that. And, like, you know, I feel good about my space in it.

[Unknown Host 2]

Was there a singular moment that you can remember in your illustrious career where you're like, I have made it, like a specific gig where you're like, this is this. Things have changed.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Well, I mean, and it. And it was premature, I will say, but when I doing, you know, McQueen stuff, you know, menswear, McQueen, I. You know, when I got the call to do that, I remember that Milk Studios, I think, doing like a Swarovski job or something like that. And I got the call to do that, and I was like, I remember being in the Milk Studios just like, oh, my God, you know, and then. And then I was like, okay, cool. Like, now I can get any model I want. I can do anything. And that did not work like that at all. I realized it came down real quick.

[Unknown Host 2]

Right.

[Jay Massa Cray]

The thing that the problem is once you get something, you know. You know how it is. Once you get something, it's like. Like the. The honeymoon doesn't last too, too long. You know what I mean? It's like, so. It's. It's. But. But that was. That was definitely a big, you know, like, pinch me moment, for sure.

[Unknown Host 2]

False flag aside.

[Unknown Host 1]

When did.

[Jay Massa Cray]

False flag aside. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

How did you, Alexander McQueen, meet?

[Jay Massa Cray]

So I went to school in London for photography, and I was working at this early 2000, working at this Hoxton Square Barn kitchen and, you know, going to school and then Lee, they were. This was shortage. There was nothing in shortage. It was the most creative. Being there in the early 2000s was insane. It was like the most creative time, you know, it was like. It was like all these crazy, like. Like, stylists that I looked up to. There was no, you know, there was no social media. So this is people that you knew from magazines, you know, Like, I was like, oh, my God, there's like, you know, Katie England or, like, you know, there's like, you know, Alistair Mackey and Katie Grant and blah, blah. All these like. Like, people that were like, if, you know, you know, sort of thing, you know, and they were all buzzing around the bar. And then Lee came in.

[Unknown Host 1]

You worked at this bar?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I worked at this bar two nights a week. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Bartending.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Bartending, yeah. Well, you know, Europe's like, different. It's like there's not really like. Or England. It was like. There's no. Everyone's sort of bartending and bar backing.

[Unknown Host 1]

Barkeep.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Barkeep. Pretending bar made barmaid.

[Unknown Host 2]

You were a wench is what you said.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I was a winch.

[Unknown Host 1]

Okay, Titties out. All right, so you worked at the bar, that bar.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Lee comes in. We're with Sarah, Sarah Burton. And. And le through. Sarah starts passing little notes. Like, little, like, sexually explicit notes.

[Unknown Host 2]

Do you still have them?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I wish I did. Oh, no, I know.

[Unknown Host 2]

What was the vibe?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Something about nuts. Because, you know, these nuts. It almost comes back to these nuts.

[Unknown Host 1]

Wait, so Lee was a little. Little sassy little minx.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Oh, Lee was super sassy. Yeah. Yeah, he was super, super sassy. So. So. And it went on like that for, like. Like three weeks. And then, like, he's also. He'd come. He'd come in.

[Unknown Host 2]

That was sexting back then.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, that was literally sexting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he, like. Like send back little, like, notes and stuff like that and, like, you know, and. And then. Yeah, so that's how we met. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Well, you guys. You guys dated a little bit.

[Jay Massa Cray]

We did date early on. Like, this was, like, early on in his. You know, he's just. Just that Givenchy.

[Unknown Host 2]

Right.

[Jay Massa Cray]

And we date for, like, you know, six, eight months or something. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

What was your first impression of him?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Back to when he was, like, super fun, like, also bonkers and. But, like, there was this sort of, like, unpreciousness about him that I. That I really was, like, attracted to and, you know, and. And. And he was so. He was so, you know, it was. I was. I was 20, you know, so I was, like, totally in awe of. Of him. And. And he was also a kid. He was 30, you know, like, and age gap.

[Unknown Host 1]

Summer, baby.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah. But it was. Yeah. So he was. He was definitely, like, you know, a crazy source. And then, you know, I worked with him, you know, later down the line, and it was a crazy sort of hire. And I was sort of like, whoa. Like, you know, I was. I was really green and. But I learned so much, you know, with him.

[Unknown Host 1]

Did he hire you to work for him because he felt bad for dumping you? He's like, throw this guy about.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It's another. It's another false flag.

[Unknown Host 1]

Did you. Did you recognize his genius immediately when you first started, when you came. When you guys came into each other's orbit, or did you have the pleasure of realizing it as he, like, unfurled?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I think as Because I didn't know. I mean, I was magazine obsessed in San Francisco. Like, I would like, you know, I was like the face ID and days and confused, and I would go, like, to the shop and get it every month. And I was like, you know, that was the Bible. And he had been like, like, it's, you know, he was. He had been, like, featured in those. And so there was. There was this duality with him that also made me feel like I could be part of it too, because he was working in this sort of like high fashion sort of element. But he was just like a bloke. A bloke. Like a total, you know, and, and. And somehow that. That somehow felt close to me, you know.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah. For the. For that, like, six to eight month period, were you, like, low key? One of his muses, you think?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Ooh, in some departments, yeah. All right.

[Unknown Host 2]

Say less.

[Unknown Host 1]

Is it fair to say that he is the most influential person fashion in the late 20th, early 21st century?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I'd say so, yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Do you still see his influence today?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I'm starting to re. See his influence. Right. Because there was a. Right, that things go. Things are cyclical.

[Unknown Host 2]

Right.

[Jay Massa Cray]

So. Well, I'm just seeing like, even just like, you know, like the. The bum surgeon that, like, you know, it's sort of like. And it's all part of this, like, indices Y2K sort of thing. But it's really him that started that whole thing and a fashion level. Do you know what I mean? Like, so I am seeing all this and. And I think there's a lot more, like, kids that are coming up today that are influenced by him. There was a. There was a moment and it was hard for him, I think, like, in the, you know, in the 2010s, late, late 2000s, you know, that, like, you know, they were asking him to design all these different collections, you know, the resort and the pre. And no longer making these spectacles. So for. Because for him it was construction, but it was also mood and it was. That's the thing that I learned a lot about him too, is the kind of experience you're getting out of seeing imagery or a presentation or whatever's coming out with clothes. You know what I mean?

[Unknown Host 1]

Right.

[Unknown Host 2]

And that's where his burnout famously came from. Right. Is this like being pulled in all these directions?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Being pulled in all directions.

[Unknown Host 2]

Something that I think is so prevalent now. But maybe back then, like you're saying was like a. Maybe like a newer thing as the.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It was a totally newer thing, yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

Crazy.

[Jay Massa Cray]

And he would have been canceled today because his Twitter. His Twitter was insane. Really then. And no one was on Twitter and his Twitter was still up? No.

[Unknown Host 1]

What's he doing? Like, tweeting, Like, I don't know.

[Jay Massa Cray]

He was tweeting. I don't know. I've. I've tried looking for it. I can't.

[Unknown Host 2]

Like, like, oh, we gotta find this dude.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It was. It. They were wild, but no one was paying attention to them, so it didn't matter.

[Unknown Host 1]

Fire.

[Unknown Host 2]

That's incredible.

[Jay Massa Cray]

And he was like off the cuff.

[Unknown Host 2]

You don't say.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Wow. When he was over late night texts.

[Unknown Host 2]

All right.

[Unknown Host 1]

Working at that bar just like, as you started to make your foray into the fashion world besides Alexander Queen, who you like, worked with a guy to known fashion who also, who is at that level of genius.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Who else have I worked with?

[Unknown Host 1]

Or it's like. Or just got to know on a.

[Unknown Host 2]

Personal level besides yourself.

[Jay Massa Cray]

There's also like, don't, don't ever meet your heroes sort of. Yeah, you know, I think that's a little bit. That, that, that, that has been a big sort of revelation to all these people that I kind of grew up, like, looking at and all those magazines and they suck.

[Unknown Host 2]

They've disappointed you, though?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, maybe. Maybe a little. Like, there has some been some moments that I've worked with people and I was like, I thought this person would have have had, you know, and. But I get it. I totally get it. It's. It's like you start getting into this like, groove of something and then you're kind of like, you know, everything that we put on other people, all this expectation and all these like, you know, projection. It's projection, you know, like, like no one is gonna be the exact sort of like, you know, like, image that we have of them.

[Unknown Host 1]

When you say they're in a group, does that mean, like just creatively, they're like, oh, this works.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I'm gonna just keep creatively or. Or just. Yeah, this. Yeah, this works. And I'm just going with that. All right.

[Unknown Host 1]

More, more, more Rattlesnakes on denim.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, rattlesnakes on that.

[Unknown Host 2]

It's just a cruise. It's a cruising altitude. And they just like, are. It's a rut kind of, you would say, or is it like.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, and also success sort of like, you know, and money and power sort of breeds contempt too, you know, like, you know, complacency a little bit, you know, and, and I think that's hard for anyone to like, you know, once you get the Keys to the palace. It's hard to, like, keep a. Yeah. A straight face, you know?

[Unknown Host 2]

On the flip side, who have you met that has lived up to the hype? Oh.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

Besides throwing fits.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Definitely throwing.

[Unknown Host 1]

You're seeing genius in action right now.

[Unknown Host 2]

And maybe there's no.

[Unknown Host 1]

No one.

[Unknown Host 2]

Damn. I mean, that. Which is fair.

[Jay Massa Cray]

That's hard. It's hard. It's hard. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Every creative director listening to this, Maybe, I guess.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Carl. Carl. Just because. Because whatever you thought of Carl was exactly what he was.

[Unknown Host 1]

Off the cuff.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Twitter, like, you know, like.

[Unknown Host 2]

Like, every rumor you heard is true.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah. And it was. There was no, like, you know, what.

[Unknown Host 1]

Was the craziest thing Carl ever said to you?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I don't know. I haven't done. I didn't do. I only did two shoots with him, but I just remember sometimes he'd, like, whisper, like, little. Like, little, like, you know, little, like, dirty things, you know, like. And you're just kind of like, what?

[Unknown Host 2]

Like, we're working here, bro.

[Jay Massa Cray]

You know, not to me, but just in general, you know, like.

[Unknown Host 1]

Like, look how fat that model is.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Like, that's different.

[Unknown Host 2]

Lose some weight, you chonker.

[Unknown Host 1]

He was famously, like, fat phobia.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

As a former big boy, I never.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I never. I never. I never got that. I never got. I never got. It was more sort of just like, you know, kind of lightly flirty banter.

[Unknown Host 2]

That's nice.

[Unknown Host 1]

Flick my ponytail. Oh, well, speaking of designers. So, like, of all the moves that have been made in this past year's fashion designer shuffle, whose work are you most excited to see? Because it's all coming up.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It's all coming up. It's actually crazy doing stories right now because there's no creative directors anywhere, and you're looking at the collections, and there's literally nothing. Something. It's. It's. It's really wild.

[Unknown Host 1]

Do you prefer it when there's a singular vision?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Of course.

[Unknown Host 1]

From a crib.

[Jay Massa Cray]

And it's hard. Those. Those big brands, those big juggernaut brands that I have to shoot in magazines and stuff, and I was literally just talking about it with this creative director this morning. It's really hard because you have to place them in the magazine, but they're not giving you. You know, they're not giving you, like, directional things, you know, like. Like, it's. And right now, it's a real, like, in between season. I mean, they're not even lending clothes for different brands because they're just, like, waiting for it to, like. Like, clear out.

[Unknown Host 2]

They're real placeholders like, straight up.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

Just do a thing to have a thing on a rack, but we don't even want to shoot it.

[Unknown Host 1]

Well, from, like, okay, so. From, like, Matthew Blazy.

[Jay Massa Cray]

So I'm very excited about mat. I think I'm, I'm really excited to see that. I think, you know, just to, to see this change at Chanel. And, you know, I, I, I, you know, that's, that's really exciting. I'm really excited for my boys Jack and Lazaro at Loewe. You know, what they, what they can do with, like, you know, unlimited sort of resources with that, you know. Know, I think it's a hard gig, but it's, you know, I, I'm. I'm super excited for them.

[Unknown Host 1]

Are you bullish on them just because you, you. I am friends with them, right?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I am, I am, I am. Photos and because, because, you know, they've been, they've been at an independent brand for 20 years. Like, like, you know, and it's hard. You think everyone's like, wow, like, you know, it's like the, the biggest New York brand, and it is. But it's like, there's a lot of work that comes and that, you know, and, and many hats, and suddenly they're at this house and they can actually just. Just, you know, be creative and not have to think about this amount of fabric can only be used for this, you know, like, or, you know, so that's. So I'm really excited to see what they do.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Huh? Big living, big shoes, bulbous last big shoes to fill.

[Unknown Host 2]

Real quick on matu at Chanel. Do you. What do you think about the rumors that, like, he could be bringing menswear to Chanel? Do you believe that or do you think that.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I do believe that.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay. That could be really interesting.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Called it for a bit. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

But I wasn't a lot of that. Like, for VIP clients.

[Jay Massa Cray]

They never really talked about it.

[Unknown Host 2]

Maybe a male model. But in terms of, like, proper menswear, that could be a real sea change. Yeah, there's a lot of money in menswear.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know. I mean, is Chanel gonna sell, like, a bunch of menswear clothes? I'm not sure, but it'll. It'll be good for the brand as a whole. And that's kind of what we're sort of. And you're available, and I'm available, and, and men's. Men's is a huge, huge market. Right. Like, look at us. Look at you boys. I mean, you got this little podcast.

[Unknown Host 1]

Remember a time when there were no straight men in fashion? Now that there are straight men in fashion, how is that? Have you like.

[Jay Massa Cray]

And I remember, I remember, I remember working at Tokyo. So my first gig was at Tokyo on this like, magazine that was like that literally right here on Clinton. And it was really cool. And we had like everybody in it. And I came and did fashion for it. And you know, I was able to bring all these people from London, like Benjamin Husby or Jacob Kleisberg, you know, like, like bringing all these people. But there was this kid I remember, like, he was, he was. And he did, he did this brand and he was, he was getting frustrated with me because he was. And I, and I got it. Like I had, you know, the door was open for me. Being gay was a lot more open for me than it was for him. You know, that's, huh.

[Unknown Host 2]

Felt nice.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I'm sure it did feel nice, right? It's always nice when the doors open for you.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

You know, but, but I, I, I understand.

[Unknown Host 1]

So hard being a straight guy in America.

[Unknown Host 2]

It really is.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It's hard. Yeah. And I think it was for a second. Now we're back. Now you're back. And you guys can just sit down for a second. But for a second, for a second, it was hard. I get it. Like there was nothing a straight guy could do that was, that had any value.

[Unknown Host 2]

It was insane. Rough two years.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It was a rough two years. And I get it, I get it.

[Unknown Host 1]

Do they just suck and their way to the top?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Huh?

[Unknown Host 1]

Do they just suck and their way to the top?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Possibly just like everyone else. You're not better than it.

[Unknown Host 1]

Metaphorically. Okay. So. Oh, question for you. The, the Proenza Boys, formerly Pronza boys.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

How do they feel about dogs?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Oh, I had to think about that for a second.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

They love dogs. I love, love, love dogs. They, they have a dog.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay. An unkicked dog.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, they're really good with them. They're really, really good.

[Unknown Host 1]

Speaking of dogs and those that have that dog in them. Kate Moss. She's a homie, right? Former.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I mean, I mean, whatever. Did I ever hang out with her? I don't know. I don't remember.

[Unknown Host 1]

I mean, there's a photo of you guys with Lee.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Like. Yes, there's. Yeah, of course. And you know, with Lee I met a bunch of people and, and, and a couple times I've hung out with Kate and I don't remember much of it, which is probably.

[Unknown Host 1]

Well, that's our question. Is Is she the reigning champ of the most fun fashion person?

[Jay Massa Cray]

For sure.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

100.

[Unknown Host 2]

She's the Michael Jordan party.

[Jay Massa Cray]

She. That is her life. No, well, I mean, it's her life meaning that's what she. She comes in that room and she has to. She has to light up.

[Unknown Host 1]

She has to. And pass the CD case.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Exactly.

[Unknown Host 2]

Right.

[Jay Massa Cray]

She has to become like whatever you are, you know, and be part of the game too. Whatever you're kind of imagining, that's kind of sad. No, know, but that's, That's. I don't mean it like in a way where you're like, come in, you're like, tell me who to be. She's. She's herself. But like, you have, you know, again, she's coming in a room and all these people are looking at her. You're gonna be the secret weapon in this. You know, you better. You know, you better do a shot of tequila.

[Unknown Host 2]

Hop to it, work girl. Hop to it.

[Unknown Host 1]

Kate, were you able to keep up with her when she was in a prime or was it like trying to guard Michael Jordan one on one? Which. That's a sports thing.

[Unknown Host 2]

I'm sorry, what?

[Unknown Host 1]

Were you able to.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Come again?

[Unknown Host 1]

Were you able to keep up with Kate Moss in the club when she was in a prime, or was it like trying to out design Karl Lagerfeld?

[Unknown Host 2]

It's a better reference.

[Jay Massa Cray]

You can never out party Kate.

[Unknown Host 2]

Right?

[Unknown Host 1]

She's number one.

[Jay Massa Cray]

She is the number one.

[Unknown Host 2]

That's great.

[Jay Massa Cray]

She's go.

[Unknown Host 1]

What did a Saturday night out look like for you and your part in your partying prime?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Oh, party. Oh, that's. That's. Yeah, like walk us through it. Oh, it was like just like, like clubbing.

[Unknown Host 1]

Like, you're hanging out with Tina.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Big clubbing Lux Brillianceburg. You're like, hang out with Tina. No, absolutely not. I had my. Yeah, I had my, my. I had my. Definitely had my wild days. And by the way, it was everything.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

San Francisco, clubbing, London clubbing, doing tons of drugs, you know, drinking, like, you know, feeling about things, recovering from things. It was all part of it. It was all part of this mood and this energy. Know that. That feeds into. Into culture, into what you're wearing, into all of that, you know, like, what.

[Unknown Host 2]

Was the most fun city of all those that you mentioned?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I mean, New York is the funnest.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay.

[Jay Massa Cray]

New York. New York. New York has. New York was.

[Unknown Host 1]

That's why we wish you spent more time here.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I know. No, we were like that.

[Unknown Host 1]

Were your outfits more or less fire when you were on drugs?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Oh, way more fire. Then I didn't like. Then it was like there was, there was no uniform. Are you kidding me? Like, what was a uniform? I was like, I was, it was just like doing a different look. Like, you know, I'm no tech genius.

[Unknown Host 1]

But I knew if I wanted my business to crush it, I needed a website. Now, thankfully, bluehost made it easy. I customized, optimized, and monetized everything exactly how I wanted with AI. In minutes, my site was up. I couldn't believe it. The search engine tools even helped me get more site visitors. Whatever your passion project is, you can set it up with Bluehost with their 30 day money back guarantee. What do you got to lose? Head to bluehost.com that's B L U E H O S T.com to start now.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Race the rudders.

[Unknown Host 1]

Race the sails. Race the sails. Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching, Over. Roger.

[Unknown Host 2]

Wait. Is that an enterprise sales solution?

[Unknown Host 1]

Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Right people by industry, job title, and more. More.

[Unknown Host 1]

We'll even give you a 100 credit.

[Jay Massa Cray]

On your next campaign.

[Unknown Host 1]

Get started today at LinkedIn.com results, terms and conditions apply. Were you like, were you like, dressing up, like a different personality, like to the club? Like, is that where you.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I definitely was dressing up to the clubs when I was like 18, 19, 20. Yeah, yeah. And I think once I went to London, I stopped, but San Francisco, really? This is early, early, like, you know, like clubbing, club dates.

[Unknown Host 2]

Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

[Jay Massa Cray]

And, and it was everything.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Do you have a personal style phase that you look back on now and you cringe at.

[Jay Massa Cray]

My friends. Will. Will. I had these mew mew boots that Kim Jones gave me.

[Unknown Host 2]

Oh, okay.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Spring or fall? 2007 Men's. They were like, they were like kind of construction boots with a bunch of, of like, of studs on them. And then we had, we had both like done the, the, the miu m trick of two different types of laces. So I had like four different laces on it. And they call them monster fashion boots. Everyone called them monster. So I would like walk around with my monster fashion boots. And I think that might have been my most, you know, cringiest moment. But, you know, everything, it's just, it's all cyclical, you know.

[Unknown Host 2]

Those sound sick, by the way. Like, would you wear those tomorrow?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I might, I might. I, I, I will fight my friends for this because it was not that bad of a moment.

[Unknown Host 1]

Just kick them.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Kick.

[Unknown Host 1]

Okay, What's a Saturday night, like, for Jay Massa Cray.

[Unknown Host 2]

Now.

[Unknown Host 1]

Now for Slay Master Cray, who.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Love on the spectrum. Avenging love on the spectrum.

[Unknown Host 2]

Great. Great show. Heartwarming.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Heartwarming.

[Unknown Host 1]

Sounds like, you know, the club, that energy, that subculture was such a source of inspiration for you. What about, like, right now? Where are you finding inspiration these days?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Still the. Not. Not clubs. Because I don't go to clubs, I think, you know, still on the street. Like, I mean, I. I'm. I'm amazed at how many. How everybody has kind of great style. Like, you know, everyone has their own lane. There's no real, like, trend, per se, you know? Yeah, everything's a trend and nothing's a trend.

[Unknown Host 1]

Right.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I think that's kind of cool. You know, it's a lot more democratic. It's ev. But. But. And, you know, so really, like, I'll go to, like, that bar cassette. You know that.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

And it's like, like, full of, like, the coolest lesbians in the world, and they just dress like you're. They're.

[Unknown Host 2]

They're not even trying. Right? They're just.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It's. It's impeccable.

[Unknown Host 1]

Are lesbians low key? The most, like, stylish subset of human.

[Unknown Host 2]

Oh, yeah. They got it.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It's. It's definitely. Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

And is.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I mean, if I could be a rafting lesbian, what's a rafting lesbian? You know, like, someone Utah that, like, takes you out of, like, like, rafting. A white water raft, you know, Meryl Streep and River Wild, you know?

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah, yeah. I thought it was, like, a U haul lesbian type thing.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Thing that's the same.

[Unknown Host 1]

Same, definitely, with the inflatable raft. Jay, what brands do you wear the most?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Personally, we have a. You know, and I see you on your podcast, and I'm like, God damn it, James. You bought the same jacket I bought.

[Unknown Host 1]

What is it?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Or, of course, you know, I'm loving or love orally.

[Unknown Host 1]

Good.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, it's really, really good. My good friend Charlotte Cole does it. And, you know, the styling. Not Colette Cole et Charlemagne. There it is.

[Unknown Host 2]

She's the stylist for the Runway. Or.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, I. So I think they're doing really great stuff.

[Unknown Host 1]

That's an instance where I think the styling really almost like, elevates the clothing for sure. The entire collection, because people are like, oh, wow. But, yeah, this is what's personal with it. This is what's possible with it.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Because, like, on its own, each piece of clothing is, like, pretty fairly straightforward. I Mean, it is very special. And textiles developed from scratch. But then, like, when the way that she puts together people, like, oh, yeah, I understand the possibilities now.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah. Yeah. And that's. That's the most rewarding job, right? Like, that's the mo. Like coming in and like, being able to, like, kind of transform something that kind of.

[Unknown Host 2]

Right.

[Jay Massa Cray]

And give it stories. Like, be like, oh, this is that this character. And this is going to be this character. Do you do, you know, shows? I haven't done a show in a little bit. I've done many, many shows. I haven't done one since Coke Covid.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Basically, so a while now.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Okay. So orally. What else?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, I like Studio Nicholson.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah. Shout Out. Nick and Felix.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I like our legacy. Huh?

[Unknown Host 1]

Jacket.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Oh, nice.

[Unknown Host 1]

Aragache.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah. I love Stussy.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Have you been to the store?

[Jay Massa Cray]

No, I'm not. With that line. Yeah, I am not. I refuse.

[Unknown Host 2]

You're a brother. No way.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Like, there's no way. Like, the lines are really. They're killing. I actually, I get frustrated and mad when I go to Prada and they won't let me go in. They have to wait for, like, the right. The personal shopper to come to you. Like, dude, like, this store is huge. Let me just walk in and just kind of like.

[Unknown Host 2]

But there's no. What, like, what kind of perks do you get then as like, you know, a guy, like, who.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Well, I could call Prada and let them know that you're too proud. I'm not doing that. Like, you know, I'm not. I don't like, I. That whole, that whole part of my job, which a lot of people do. I can't. I, I, I, I, I, I, I can't do it. I don't like to do it. And by the way, I miss out because of it.

[Unknown Host 2]

Right. You should do it.

[Unknown Host 1]

You get free clothes.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I used to get a lot of free clothes. Every now and then I'll get something.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah, you snatch something off of like a. Off set or like, you ever. No, never.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Never. Because that, that is like, that is like death.

[Unknown Host 2]

Oh, yeah, that's.

[Jay Massa Cray]

That's like literally death. Because. Because, like, you know, you're having all these market people, like, call in all this stuff, everybody, you know, like, don't ever take anything from.

[Unknown Host 2]

That's the number one rule. Gotcha. Okay. No sticky fingers.

[Unknown Host 1]

Wait, so what are the perks?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Even if there's a hundred boxers, Calvin Klein boxers that no one will lay, like, someone will know.

[Unknown Host 1]

Like, like, even the Uniqlo Socks or the Muji socks.

[Jay Massa Cray]

We always take socks when I do Muji campaign.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah, we always take the socks.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah. Because they're always like you put the socks on, they're like just oh, that's fine.

[Unknown Host 1]

You can't sell them after they hit feet.

[Jay Massa Cray]

What are the perks?

[Unknown Host 1]

You get, you get, you get flown business.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I mean so that better be a perk. I mean if you're working and you're turning around, I mean it's not free clothes. I know, free clothes for you know like. Yeah, having access to that is great. But that was really like a magazines, you know, working on magazines. Like you guys must get a lot of stuff.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Cuz you guys are the new magazine.

[Unknown Host 2]

A lot of garbage. A lot of garbage.

[Jay Massa Cray]

You guys are the new magazine.

[Unknown Host 2]

I agree, we are.

[Unknown Host 1]

Well we get a lot of dog, but we get a lot of good stuff too.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

Once they have your address, they'll send you anything.

[Jay Massa Cray]

You know, you can't blame when you got this little market person that's in the thing and they're like, well do you know what will they like podcast.

[Unknown Host 1]

What are some brands that you personally never wear, never gonna hit body Dujay but you love to work with?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Well, I don't know about working with but like you know, like for example, Rick Owens, you know, like it's a brand that I cannot wear. It's not for me particularly to wear but I'm like, I think it's amazing.

[Unknown Host 2]

Right?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I think it's like the cons, like whatever he does, it's so not my lane. Yeah, yeah, but it's amazing and I think you can appreciate an incredible designer and it's like, it's, it's insane to me.

[Unknown Host 1]

He's a pinnacle of that right where.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It'S like stuff that he does, you.

[Unknown Host 1]

Can have an enthusiasm for it even if it doesn't necessarily you're not wearing the heels or the 6 inch platform heels, whatever.

[Jay Massa Cray]

McQueen was never fully my style either. You know like you've never rocked a spell scarf. Yes, I think I did.

[Unknown Host 2]

They're coming back crazy. Which is why everywhere Chalamet most famous, right.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Sham is really like bringing on all.

[Unknown Host 2]

That, all that true religions. A McQueen skull scarf.

[Unknown Host 1]

Tim's like hater. Yeah, he's mu cheese with your boy hater.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, yeah. I mean I, I, I, I love the Tom Ford stuff he's doing. I mean I don't know if that's it's my fit but like you know, it's so sharp and so like the.

[Unknown Host 2]

First show was great.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Severe and, like, you know, dripping of, like, you know, of gasoline and sex and cigarette.

[Unknown Host 1]

That's kind of your swag, you know. Yeah, it's like sexy, masculine energy.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, yeah, sorry. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

Big daddy energy.

[Unknown Host 1]

That's me passing you people to call Lagerfeld. Passing a note. Do you have a dream client, Jay, you'd love to work with one day that you haven't worked with just yet?

[Jay Massa Cray]

There's no dream client. There's no dream client. It all depends on, like, you know, I mean, sure. Like, if. Would working for product be cool? Like, yeah, it'd be cool, you know, but it's not. There's always. No matter where you come in, there's always going to be these kind of crazy complications. It's always a mess. Like, you know, I. For me, like, the most rewarding is. Is, you know, like, a small, sleepy. Like. Like Japanese brand would be great, you know, like. Like something like that, you know, like that. That. That is. That is. That is, you know, most exciting. Yeah. When it comes making a difference. Because you want to come in and make a difference. Right.

[Unknown Host 1]

Not just, like, be a cog in.

[Unknown Host 2]

The machine when it comes to getting new gigs and new clients. Like, how much of that is outreach from, like, your, like, agency representation? Or, like, how much of that is just, like, inbound? Like, you sit and wait? Like, what's your personal strategy with that?

[Jay Massa Cray]

It's. There's no. There's there, you know, I mean. Mean, it's. I still rely on editorials, you know, I still rely on doing stories for magazines that sort of, like, you know, sort of get people thinking about me again. That's. That. That's. That's my currency. That's my calling card. That's why, like, I don't mind spending money on editorial. That is, like, you know, that is still somehow the most effective sort of way to communicate something, you know, like, you know, even if they're like. Like, like, even if now, you know, we're having to do so many more things on set than just that one picture and finding that weird little quirk or that weird little mistake, that's actually going to, like, bring up some kind of emotion, and that's going to make you feel something, you know, so that's.

[Unknown Host 1]

Really how you approach, like, the jobs. Like, what can we. How can we, like, highlight the imperfections or the.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Well, I mean, it. It. It can be right because you're trying to. You're trying to. To shoot a sweatshirt and a pant or whatever it is, you know, and, and how do you, you know, finding the little, you know, the mistakes and the, the sort of the vulnerable things like that's that, that evokes emotion in you, you know, something you can even relate to. You know, like even if you see an ad and there's something wrong, you know, like, and it's. We pasted, you know, imagine you have something wrong and something kind of right, you know, like you're gonna turn at the, the wrong one. You know, you're gonna look at that one and. But it has to be the right sort of like, like, you know, push and pull, basically.

[Unknown Host 1]

I mean we talked about how. You talked about how editorial is kind of your calling card and how that like generates leads and business. Does any part of you feel pressure? I mean we've kind of talked about how social media like maybe isn't the best thing for the world in general. Does any part of you feel pressure to like be a guy on social media?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Be a what?

[Unknown Host 1]

Be a guy. Like, be like, you know, like flexing all your work, you know.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, I mean I, I was super late on that and I, I now I, you know, and by default I, I only post work stuff.

[Unknown Host 2]

It's a portfolio for you.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It's a portfolio for me. Which is not the way to go.

[Unknown Host 2]

About why not post any personal stuff?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I. That should be. That's, that's because I'm like old school. I'm a 90s kid. Like humility was never about showing everything.

[Unknown Host 1]

There comes picks on there, to be clear.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Because I had to throw them up because I was like, I was like, wait a second. I have to actually do a post. Every year I do a post where it's like, this is my life. I'm shirtless.

[Unknown Host 2]

My wild and crazy shirtless life.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Also be like, I am a real person.

[Unknown Host 2]

Right?

[Jay Massa Cray]

You know what I mean? Like, and these are truly me. Like, these are like, you know, but like, yeah, like I haven't, you know, I think there's people that do it like super well. Like lotta does. It is amazing at it. You know, she gives you a whole sort of plethora of things and all, you know, it's. And it's all linked and it's. And it's. And it's her and her friends like drinking champagne at the, in the Miu Miu, like, like you know, in the Miu Miu store, like sitting on the carpet like just kind of being ratchet. But like, you know, with me, clothes and champagne and like Petra and like that's amazing, you know.

[Unknown Host 2]

Like, you can't do that.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I cannot do that. No.

[Unknown Host 2]

We would love.

[Jay Massa Cray]

But the people. And I am from the thing where you're kind of like, human. You're like, you're a little bit like, you know, you're. You're a little like you hide or something.

[Unknown Host 1]

Do you want to keep out the of. You want to keep your private life private?

[Jay Massa Cray]

It's not even about that. Even though, yes, I do need some privacy, for sure. But, like, that's not. I just haven't. I. My. I'm. I'm kind of old school in the way of.

[Unknown Host 2]

You're physically incapable of posting a selfie.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Well, I am, but I just. It's so obvious what I'm doing and I'm like, here it is.

[Unknown Host 1]

Just don't think. Jay.

[Unknown Host 2]

Just.

[Unknown Host 1]

Just post.

[Unknown Host 2]

Just post.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I know that's correct. And so I do that. I do that on. On my stories.

[Unknown Host 2]

True. That is true.

[Unknown Host 1]

First, do you think we're in the era of the star stylist? I mean, like, Law Roach, we mentioned, he's, you know, mega, like. And, and. And is that a good thing? For the, for the.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It's a different thing. I've, I've. I've always thought there was star stylists. They just were not advertised like they are today, you know, like, they don't have their own TV show, they don't have their own deal. They're not fighting to get to. They're not fighting with their client to sit front row, you know, like, whatever. Like, you know, there was, you know, Jo Joe McKenna, like, you know, Anna Coburn, like, you know, Jane Howe, like, Ra. Are people that, if you knew, you knew, you know, and these were like, you know, if, if, if, if I spotted them at, like, something, I'd be like, oh, damn. Like, that's, like, that's a. That to me. Like, that's a. And that felt. That felt so much more special, right, because you were inside of this little. You were. You were. You had nerded out so much that you were, like, able to kind of figure out who these people were. Right.

[Unknown Host 1]

So ultimately, just not. Like, you don't want to be a star stylist yourself.

[Jay Massa Cray]

No, and I don't. I don't think I. I don't think I'd, you know, know I'm. I'm better.

[Unknown Host 2]

Like, you're not built for it.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I'm not built for it. Yeah, you have to have a. You have to have, like, you know, and also. And also with celebrities, you have to, like, you have to be A bit of a. There. You have to, like, do some kind of slight therapy and just kind of like, you know, I, I mean, I. The celebrities that I've worked with, that I've liked are the ones that are sort of just like, kind of like older women. Like, even Julia Binoche, like, someone like that, like, great. Like, they. So, like, they're like, yeah, let's do it. Robert Pattinson, you know, Robert Patson.

[Unknown Host 1]

How was he?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I was great. Great. He was super cool. Yeah. He's quiet, you know, reserved. He's reserved.

[Unknown Host 1]

He tried to make his famous, like, microwave pasta or some.

[Jay Massa Cray]

No, he did not. What is that?

[Unknown Host 1]

He tried to, like, invent some, like, microwavable pasta while doing an interview with GQ over Covid. Over Zoom. He's like, yeah, I'm just around and making this, like, crazy ridiculous. He's like, oh, it's pretty good. I should, like, I should, like, patent this.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Patent.

[Unknown Host 2]

He's around the lab making microwave pasta. Okay, cool.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

So, all right, you mentioned some legends, but, like, in terms of stylists currently working today, who are your favorites besides yourself?

[Jay Massa Cray]

There's, there's many that I love. I think Charlotte Kay is amazing. She's super creative. She's always, like, you know, like, firing ideas and, And, I mean, she's, She's, She's a, a. She's a beast. And, you know, I think lot is very good. There's so many. There's so many great stylists out there.

[Unknown Host 2]

Too many.

[Jay Massa Cray]

There's a lot of stylists. There's a lot. A lot of. There's a little bit of an oversaturation on stylist, for sure.

[Unknown Host 1]

Well, consider.

[Jay Massa Cray]

But that's, but it's okay. I'm actually. So this whole. There's. We've been through an era where there. It was just like, new, new, new. We needed to get, like, someone new to revitalize, revitalize. And now there's a little bit of a return to, like, experience, which is a nice thing. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Well, what goes through your head when you see, like, kids on social media used to be like, yo, I'm a creative director. I'm a creative director. It's like, all right, you, like, made a T shirt. Now it's like, I'm a stylist. I'm a stylist like you.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I mean, I, I, I, I take it with a grain of salt.

[Unknown Host 2]

Right?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I know. I mean, you know, but. But I get some of these. You know, some of these people are, like, creating these, like, sort of little Worlds, like, lots of. Really has created a world, you know, and it's, It's. It's impressive.

[Unknown Host 2]

What would be like, your number one piece of advice then, for a young person who. Who doesn't want to just put styles in their bio, but wants to actually pursue this, like, as.

[Jay Massa Cray]

You have to think of the whole picture. Like, you really. You can't just think about the look and that the shirt. You know, being a stylist is not about, you know, putting on a. The. The flyest pair of pants with the coolest, like, sweatshirt ever. You know, there's. That's, that's really, like. That's really like 33.3 of what you do. You know what I mean? Like, there's so many little hurdles that you have to sort of, like, figure out, and it's like a Tetris puzzle puzzle, you know? So I think, like, be, you know, yeah, sure, be super passionate about what you do, but also, like, you know, understand that there's a lot more that goes into that, you know, and it's a lot of times, like, assistants, you know, look at these assistants now. They're coming in and they're kind of like, well, I know, I know, I know. I can. I can do that. You know, like.

[Unknown Host 1]

And what do you say? Shut the up.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Shut the up. You don't even know what's going on right now.

[Unknown Host 2]

Give me a coffee. You little.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Shut your mouth. Mouth.

[Unknown Host 2]

Know your role.

[Jay Massa Cray]

There's so many, like, elements that, you.

[Unknown Host 1]

Know, what's some assistant behavior that really pisses you off on set?

[Jay Massa Cray]

On set, I have. It's, It's. It's the nodding at a look. You know, you're. You're doing something. There's. And again, like, you know, when you're. You're doing style outs, whatever, and you're like, you know, you have the client there, you're doing the stylize, and you're. You're trying to make something cool, but you also have these parameters to work with, and you know that there's all these little boxes that you have to tick in your head. And then you have your assistant being like, like, just like kind of like, you know, silently saying, like, want. I don't want. I do not need to hear that at that moment. You just don't want to hear either, you know, you don't want to hear that it's bad or good. You're just like, let. Let me just like, you know, cook. Let me.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah, we're in the. We're in the process of this.

[Unknown Host 1]

Shut Up Daddy's going.

[Jay Massa Cray]

And this is coming from a good place. You know, like the assistant is like good, you know, but it's like, it's like n. This isn't the time.

[Unknown Host 2]

Not the client means nothing.

[Jay Massa Cray]

If I'm putting this on, I know it's going to look good. So like I'm not, I'm not even trying.

[Unknown Host 2]

Only had 33.3% of the gig. All right, relax.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Exactly. You're answering 33%.

[Unknown Host 1]

Before being a full time stylist, just going back a little bit in time, you were fashion director of V&VMAN from like 2008 to 2016, which was such a psychotic time.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

In fashion. Are you scared that kids currently are looking to that era for their inspiration today?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Scared? Yeah. Why would I be scared?

[Unknown Host 1]

I don't know.

[Jay Massa Cray]

You.

[Unknown Host 1]

You kind of mentioned you're like. Yeah, like there was some crazy going on.

[Jay Massa Cray]

That it was some of the best. I mean there was some crazy shoots. Like there was some amazing, you know. Are you talking about the inside politics or the, or the actual, the actual work?

[Unknown Host 1]

Like the trends and like the aesthetics, I guess if that's scared. Are you like.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Well, everything, everything comes back. Right. Because we're all like nostalgia based. So whatever it is that you were with when you were like 20 then you're gonna bring back up. And also when you were 13 and you couldn't actually be with your 20 year old brethren's, you're gonna wanna, you're gonna want to relook at that and think that's cool because you thought it was, I mean, like the whole process of like, you know, so I totally get why, you know, but I mean that's like high, high, high gloss, you know, I don't know if is there is high, high, high gloss. Like, I mean, I guess it's like fantasy versus reality, you know, like and it depends on what camp you're sort of in. You know, it was uber fantasy, you know, and it was cool. They have some like amazing like David Sims shoots with like, you know, Joe McKenna and Raquel Zimmerman, like as a the middle of like woods all messed up and like, you know, like wild.

[Unknown Host 2]

Stuff that'll sell a lot of cauldrons.

[Unknown Host 1]

You know there's money in that tour back then.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Still point. Are there any fashion trends, met era that you feel maybe a little bit of remorse in playing a part in pushing?

[Jay Massa Cray]

O Including what like did you feel.

[Unknown Host 1]

Like when you think back on that era, you're like, oh, I wish I hadn't really. You Know, been ride or die for, like, that one trend that. With the V. With the advantage of hindsight, maybe.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah. I honestly, like, there's not. I. I actually am always interested in the shit you hate the shit I hate. Because if I can somehow manage to. To make that turn around for me, then I've gotten. I get. I get a point for myself.

[Unknown Host 2]

That's gross.

[Jay Massa Cray]

You know what I mean? Like, it's growth. Yeah. I don't know. Like, you know, this thing. There's nothing that's off the table and actually doing something. You know, I'm not like, oh, my God, this is not the look, you know what I mean? Like, like, there's. There's.

[Unknown Host 2]

There's absolutely not.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Like. No, exactly. Like, you can't do that.

[Unknown Host 2]

You are. Yes.

[Unknown Host 1]

On your Tim Gunn.

[Jay Massa Cray]

That's the thing. Like, you had all these stylists back then, before social media, and they were like these crazy caricatures of what stylists were. There was like this one red carpet guy, a bald guy, who's always like, just like, really, just, like, just insane. They just looked like clowns.

[Unknown Host 2]

Because they're playing larger than life roles, right? Like.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. They're like. They're like entertainment.

[Unknown Host 1]

Right, Exactly.

[Unknown Host 2]

Like Joan Rivers.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah. Was not.

[Unknown Host 2]

Because she's a critic or whatever. She was a comedian as well. But.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay.

[Unknown Host 1]

And a genius.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yes, genius. We miss her.

[Jay Massa Cray]

And a genius.

[Unknown Host 2]

Rest in paradise, queen.

[Unknown Host 1]

Why do you decide to leave editorial?

[Jay Massa Cray]

What?

[Unknown Host 1]

Why did you decide to leave editorial?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Like you were to leave a magazine. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

To leave media. Yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah. It's not. I just. I. I definitely. I just. I wanted to get out of the parameters of V. Okay. Vnv, man had good. You know, I said parameters are good, but at those parameters I had, I. I exhausted them.

[Unknown Host 1]

Did you see the writing on the wall with, like, media and Internet and social media?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Or were you just like, not. Not enough, not enough. Not enough. Not enough. Not enough.

[Unknown Host 2]

We're going to live for.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I didn't. I didn't understand. I didn't really understand the power of. Really Instagram, of. Of. Of how that sort of like, shifted everything, you know?

[Unknown Host 2]

You don't like change, I'm sensing. Are you, like, you're resistant to change?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, but. But, you know, but. But I'm all here for it. I'm just like, you know. Yeah. I'm. I'm an old goose.

[Unknown Host 2]

What's your.

[Unknown Host 1]

What's your Instagram Explore page look like?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I think a lot. Like, honestly, like, it's pretty sad.

[Unknown Host 1]

A lot of dudes Yeah, I think.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It'S a lot of dudes.

[Unknown Host 1]

No, fashion stuff.

[Jay Massa Cray]

No, there's fashion. It's fashion stuff and dudes, which is.

[Unknown Host 2]

Really the two major food groups.

[Unknown Host 1]

We love ours, but except girls instead of guys. Just like AI Girls at this point, honestly.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Oh, it's crazy.

[Unknown Host 2]

Oh, yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Can we take a look?

[Unknown Host 2]

Let us. Let's take a little peek. Let's peep that warlock.

[Unknown Host 1]

You see you hiding. We see you hiding.

[Unknown Host 2]

Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. Like, some body stuff. So there's some, like. Yeah, it's kind of gross.

[Jay Massa Cray]

There's a lot of like. Like insect.

[Unknown Host 2]

Oh, that's a man. That's a sexy man.

[Unknown Host 1]

Is that Adam Kimmel? Who is that?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, Adam Kimmel. Oh, my God. Where's Adam Kimmel? Bring back Adam Kimmel.

[Unknown Host 1]

He was the creative director. We work and then. Fashion job.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

No, I mean, bring back Adam Kimmel.

[Unknown Host 1]

He just got a job somewhere.

[Unknown Host 2]

He was.

[Jay Massa Cray]

He did get.

[Unknown Host 2]

He was a straight man in fashion.

[Jay Massa Cray]

That was like. He was an anomaly.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

And he was the. And it was very, very cool.

[Unknown Host 2]

His was fire.

[Jay Massa Cray]

This was amazing.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah, yeah, he was dope, for sure.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I mean, I remember he also had. The whole thing was like, he. His hangers and his cloth bags that he would send clothes in. They were so good. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Oh, no, there's another. There's a registered sex offender in Hollywood also named Adam Kimmel. So his SEO is kind of GQ.

[Unknown Host 2]

Was writing what happened to Adam Kimmel in 2017. So I think we're past that.

[Unknown Host 1]

Took a gig.

[Jay Massa Cray]

He did. I saw that. I saw that. Like a big gig or kind of good for him.

[Unknown Host 1]

Not like a. He's a major place, but like something that, like, we're like, oh, okay. That's a place.

[Jay Massa Cray]

He was great.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay.

[Unknown Host 1]

Figured out.

[Unknown Host 2]

Shout out Adam Kimmel, wherever you are.

[Unknown Host 1]

Come on.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Is there. Was there anything or anything still today you miss about working in media direct correctly?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, definitely. This. The. The, like sitting down and figuring out issues. I mean, that at Tokyo, that was the funnest sort of thing, you know? And then because it was so small, we were like four around a table trying to figure out what the whole issue was going to be. That was so. It was. It was so multifaceted, and it was about culture in general, you know, like. And even at V, it was, you know, but it had more skewed towards fashion. But, like, you know, I. Everything kind of like leans on everything, right? So, like, this idea, this camaraderie thing, I. You know, I'm jumping in from One gig to the next. And I don't have this, like, continuous sort of like, you know, sit around a table and discuss ideas and whatever and just shoot out things and it. Being stupid or not or whatever. Like all of those brainstorming.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah. You're just.

[Jay Massa Cray]

You're.

[Unknown Host 1]

You're blowing in the wind.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Blowing in the wind.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah. You're rolling stone.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Gather no moss.

[Unknown Host 2]

Do you miss that kind of like group project mentality? Like, for sure, because you're Batman, right? You're solo.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I'm. I'm solo. Besides your assistant, I'm really, really sol. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

So you missed a camaraderie, the collective goal.

[Unknown Host 1]

Happy hour.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, yeah. Happy hour.

[Unknown Host 1]

Health care. I'm sure.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Health care. Health care.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

Healthcare would be nice.

[Unknown Host 1]

Do you think you could ever go back?

[Jay Massa Cray]

That really strong health care we had is.

[Unknown Host 1]

Is vv, man. Is. Are they American magazines?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

They're not European. They're American. Who's their parent company? Do you know?

[Jay Massa Cray]

There is no parent company. It's. It's a visionary group.

[Unknown Host 1]

Oh, yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Are they Steven Stevens magazine scenes? Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Oh, that's right.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It's Stephen Gown.

[Unknown Host 1]

Oh, I think someone else.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Who are you thinking of?

[Unknown Host 1]

I don't know. Stephen Meiselle. Is that a name?

[Jay Massa Cray]

You're not doing this. We're not doing that.

[Unknown Host 1]

Do you think you could ever go back. Do you think you'd ever go back to media?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Mizel. Stephen Mizel.

[Unknown Host 1]

I can't speak French.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Do you want to remain independent, just doing your own thing, Jay, or do you think.

[Jay Massa Cray]

No, I love, you know, I mean. Mean, I don't know what the. I don't know. I don't know what magazines mean so much anymore, even though I still like them, but I don't. They're not arbiter of culture like they once were. I do think magazines more so than ever because they're documentation of a time, because they will stick around as, like, you know, like. Yeah, you know, I think we have, like. I'm having issues sort of like, you know, shooting these, like, you know, these advertisers that make the magazine keep going, but that are not really offering anything kind of, you know, amazing to shoot. And it's really hard to get their clothes because celebrity demand and blah, blah, blah and all that kind of stuff. So. So if you have an idea in mind to try to build an idea of fashion and you can't even get these looks to try to make this your, you know, then you're stuck with, like, you know, dregs, like just the drags of like, you know, and, and then, and then you've lost. So I, I do think that the, the role of the magazine right now is to document the, this, this, this fashion almost kind of like a sort of like a, A, a. Yeah, like a documentation of, of, of, of, of style and clothing and as a catalog almost. You know, I think you see it more in a magazine than you do online.

[Unknown Host 1]

I guess that's the challenge though, right? Is like, you have a magazine is. Takes what, three months at least few months in advance to produce. Like, you have to capture the now. But, but with, like, but.

[Jay Massa Cray]

But don't be the now. You're not going to be the now. Magazines are no longer going to be the now.

[Unknown Host 1]

You're saying they got to document the, the moment.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Well, you got to document the moment, but because it's a keepsake, right? Like, like. And I don't know what that means, means financially, like, for people, like, do people really care about that?

[Unknown Host 2]

In the red is what it means.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It means in the red. So that's gonna go out. You know, like, obviously, I, I get it. This is like some sort of like, weird concept of like, you know, so I, But I think that's also why, like, a lot of brands are doing their own magazines and are doing their own sort of like, you know, I, you know, doing a magazine for a brand would be amazing. I'd love to do that.

[Unknown Host 2]

Oh, okay.

[Unknown Host 1]

What publications, whether it's from a brand or legacy title or indie, new, New Kid on the block. What publications do you think today are putting out to the most. The best fire. The most fire. Menswear editorial.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Menswear editorial.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Menswear editorial.

[Unknown Host 1]

Slim Pickens.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Slim Pickens.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Slim Pickens. Yeah. Slim Pickens.

[Unknown Host 2]

I'm trying to even think, like, what is good.

[Jay Massa Cray]

For men's. I mean, you know, I like, I still like a fantastic man. Sure. You know, Know, I don't know. Just. I can't even look at it in those terms of menswear and women's wear.

[Unknown Host 1]

Okay.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Just generally speaking, I, in general, generally speaking, I think Dub does, Does a really good job. I think Middle Plane is doing a really good job.

[Unknown Host 2]

Are these indie titles? Because I'm not. Okay.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Because right over my head, you know. Yeah, I, I, I think m. The mond. Like, you know, is. Is doing a really good job.

[Unknown Host 2]

That sounds French.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, it's like that, the Te. The, The Mon. Supplement.

[Unknown Host 2]

Oh, okay. Gotcha.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah. Then there's a bunch of little, like, magazines that come in, you know, like, there's that group, like, all in have that magazine, you know, that's really great. And they have this kind of great brand, you know, and it's like the coolest thing ever. And it's kind of all meshed together as a. As a. And. And it makes sense. I get it. You know, it's all part of this branding exercise.

[Unknown Host 2]

It's an entity.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

It's its own machine. It's a snake sucking its own dick.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yes.

[Unknown Host 2]

To fantastic results.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Well, listen, someone's gotta. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

This dick ain't gonna suck itself. I mean, unless, I guess, if you do suck your own dick.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I'm trying.

[Unknown Host 2]

Never mind.

[Unknown Host 1]

Rib removal surgery. Can we focus on menswear a little bit? Where do you think menswear is headed this summer? From your.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I mean, for me. For me, menswear. I mean, listen, we are. We are the, you know, the.

[Unknown Host 1]

Boy.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Like, logos, sneaker culture. I'm sorry, boys. It's a rap. It's a real rap. Like, you know, and everybody knows this. I'm not. I'm not, like, I'm not teaching anything new. So I. I do think that, like, you know, the future of menswear is all these little bespoke little brands that maybe come up and, like, you know, are just feel special and are, you know, don't have logos emblazoned everywhere and, you know, like, even what the kids are doing at Kobo, you know, and, like, you know, just these little. These little bespoke brand that you feel that you've. That's why, like, vintage is so popular too, right? Because you feel like, okay, cool, like I'm wearing something that, like, no, you know, so I think. I think those little brands, the orally, like, that's. That's the future men are for now. You know what I mean? Like, these kind of unrecognizable. You don't want. I don't want to. I don't want to see you and know that that blue denim jacket was, you know.

[Unknown Host 2]

Right.

[Jay Massa Cray]

God damn it.

[Unknown Host 1]

We could be twinsies every.

[Jay Massa Cray]

With you. We could be twins if we go.

[Unknown Host 1]

To the same function. Just let me know ahead of time. Like, yo, that's what we do. I'm like, hey, I'm wearing the small talk.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I was like, what am I going to wear on throwing fits? And then I, like, look at it, and I'm like, oh, wear my jacket.

[Unknown Host 2]

But is it so it's, like, plain. It's like plain, nondescript clothes that fit well.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Plain textiles. Like, textiles. Like, real, like, craftsmanship. And I think you you know, kids now are, like, really into that.

[Unknown Host 1]

So every brand you mentioned that you're either wearing or that you're into right now is, like, right in the wheelhouse.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yes.

[Unknown Host 1]

Of, like, throwing fits. And our guys.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Of the zeitgeist is clever.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Student Nicholson.

[Unknown Host 2]

Perfect. Mid. It's like, we. What do we call? Like, mid tier? Advanced? Mid, not mid, meaning, like, average.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Like, do you want to wear any of the big brands? Like, honestly, like, you might. It's really hard.

[Unknown Host 1]

Just the shoes, though. Not.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Maybe. Maybe Louis. Maybe Bottega Men's.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah. If I could afford it, which I cannot, so it doesn't. This is a moot point because I can't afford it. So just the shoes.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, I, I like the idea. It's a little cardboardy to me. It's a little stiff, you know, Know, but, but I, I, you know, it's always very nice, you know, tasteful.

[Unknown Host 1]

You don't wear any of the big, Big, big names.

[Jay Massa Cray]

No, I think, I think. No, no, no. I mean, it's not. And honestly, it's. It's. It's. I just don't. It's not particularly designed for. For me.

[Unknown Host 2]

When you vintage shop, are there specific brands that you look for? Like, like, what? Can you tell us.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Her old gap. 90s gap.

[Unknown Host 2]

That's having a moment right now.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It is having a moment. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Bay Area.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Bay Area.

[Unknown Host 1]

Bay Area.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Okay.

[Unknown Host 2]

L. Bean. Gap.

[Unknown Host 1]

Have you ever read Hyphy as a Youth?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Oh, what?

[Unknown Host 1]

Did you ever get hyphy as a youth?

[Jay Massa Cray]

What's Hyphy?

[Unknown Host 1]

It's a Bay Area rap.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Oh, oh, like, like, like Delta Funky, Homo Sapien and stuff like that.

[Unknown Host 1]

A little later.

[Jay Massa Cray]

That's all right.

[Unknown Host 2]

Crunchy. Yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Oh, yeah, I was crunchy.

[Unknown Host 1]

E40.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Oh. E4 sneak. Right, right.

[Unknown Host 2]

No, Ride the wheel.

[Jay Massa Cray]

No, I was, I was. I was more like Crunch. Crunchy. Digital Underground.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

And you're a hacky sack. Who. Who. You know, Souls of Mischief. Souls of Mischief. Thank you.

[Unknown Host 1]

Digable Planets.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Digable Planet. Ladybug. Ladybug.

[Unknown Host 1]

Ladybug. And Butterfly.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Ladybugging.

[Unknown Host 2]

Butterfly.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Were you.

[Unknown Host 2]

Were you out at this moment in time, or was this to be straight? Have you heard the new Souls of Mischief?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Guys, I was not out. I. I came. I came out my last year of. Last year of high school. I kind of, like, had a boyfriend and girlfriend because it's kind of cool to be like, a little, like, you know, Mr. Over, but, like, but, but as a show, you know, like, sort of like, you know, and it didn't really.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay. No, it felt.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It just went straight to gay. It was just a quick path.

[Unknown Host 2]

He only is one of these, like.

[Unknown Host 1]

No, no, come by 80s San Francisco. Not necessarily 80s, 90s, 90s. Sorry. Excuse me, sorry. Mid 90s.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, yeah, mid 90s, for sure.

[Unknown Host 1]

Mid to late 90s, yeah. San Francisco, not really a hotbed of fashion. Like. What?

[Jay Massa Cray]

No, it was.

[Unknown Host 1]

Was it?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah. Are you kidding me? Like, 90s San Francisco is the other culture other than New York. Like, that's like. If there's like. If there's like street culture, it's San Francisco, okay? Because it's club. It's club kids, it's skating, it's graffiti artists. So that whole thing, like, it's Woodstock 94. What's that? San Francisco?

[Unknown Host 1]

No, but I'm saying it.

[Jay Massa Cray]

That. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Like Lollapalooza hippies. I was like, you know, I think, like, second festival is San Francisco, you know? So, like. Yeah, okay. You know, liberal. Liberal liberalism. Gone a ry.

[Unknown Host 1]

Right. This was like high fashion, huh? In terms of, like, high fashion.

[Jay Massa Cray]

There was a couple. Like, there was a hot. There was like. Like, there was a big. There was these two store. There was this. There was a couple stores. One that I worked at, but this is Rolo Progressive Menswear. And it was all funnels. Everything.

[Unknown Host 1]

Or is that just a. Is that code for. You know.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It was called rpm.

[Unknown Host 1]

There you go.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Roll progress. So it was all like, like, funnels, Velcros, clasps. No, you know, no plackets ever. Anything. Just like, you know that Mew. Mew Prada. Like, sort of like.

[Unknown Host 2]

Because what you described sounds terrible, but.

[Jay Massa Cray]

No, like a. Like a funnel with like Velcro Matrixy with like some Sonys went back here.

[Unknown Host 1]

You know, it's like gorpy, futuristic gorpy future.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah. A little raffy to begin early rap.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay, I can see that.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, yeah, you're painting. And there was a couple stores that was really like. And I was. You know, and I was. And I'd see him. I always see Umberto Leon always, like, kind of running around the show. I was like, oh, my God, who is that? He would always. He'd always be wearing funnels. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

You're just a young bisexual. Bar B.

[Unknown Host 2]

Young B went to the funnel neck.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Oh, my God. Dream life. Damn. God.

[Unknown Host 1]

I should have been bring back the funnels, that trend.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Didn't I feel like people sometimes bring them back every now and then. Oh, what. What do you guys think of Magliano? You like that? You like Him. It's not for really.

[Unknown Host 2]

I think it's one of those things too. Cuz like also like, I feel like, you know, again with social, like you see people talking about, you know, not shouting from the rafters, but like, obviously it's getting like press in that way. And it's I think one of those things where it's like, I can appreciate it, but it's not something that I want to wear.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Sure.

[Unknown Host 1]

Necessarily.

[Unknown Host 2]

But I feel like people are talking about him like he's, he's. Or have been like, he's next up.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Are you working with him?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Is that why I'm working with him? No, no, no, no. He's. I just think he's. He's. He's actually an interesting Italian designer.

[Unknown Host 2]

Pity.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Right? I think he did. Yeah. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

That's. I think when he came across my desk.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Right, right, right.

[Unknown Host 2]

But yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Are there any small brands that you got your eye on? I mean, you mentioned about how like loving to have like put your stamp on things. Like you know, maybe like a young little Japanese brand that is maybe trying to break out.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I mean, there's this brand Rocky Mountain Featherbed that I love.

[Unknown Host 2]

Sure.

[Unknown Host 1]

They've been around since like the 70s.

[Jay Massa Cray]

That's classic. But it's not, not. It's not really. They have, but they haven't. They've been rebought by Japanese.

[Unknown Host 2]

Right. That's like the license or whatever.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It's a license. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

That was a big like, you know, we've been talking a lot about how like the urban woodsman look from like 09.10. Yeah, you know, that was a. That was on the menswear blogs, like, yeah. You know, oh, get a proxy to get the Junior Rocky.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, sure, Junior was doing all that.

[Unknown Host 2]

Still kicking. But yeah, I feel like that was the thing where people are like, yeah, like I need my Japanese proxy for like, like you know, Rocky Mountain feather bed or whatever.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Like denim, denim, denim, denim. 45 RPM. Let's go.

[Unknown Host 2]

Which one of the best stores in New York? Best smelling store if you want to buy $800 flannel shirt, you know.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

Best flannel shirt that doesn't fit you because you're an American sized person.

[Jay Massa Cray]

But yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Unknown Host 2]

45 RPM.

[Unknown Host 1]

What else you want to talk about? No, I'm just kidding. What, what trends you want to see die?

[Jay Massa Cray]

What are you sick again? Like, oh, well, I mean, you know, the sneaker, man, the sneaker's hard. I mean, I find it really hard. I like wearing sneakers. I Find it really hard to wear a sneaker.

[Unknown Host 1]

What's your go to sneaker?

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah. What's the rotation?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I mean, it's an asic, it's a keen, it's, you know, but like, I just find it really hard because. And I'm a total, like, you know, I've always loved sneakers. Like, like, really, you know, you know, early, early, early on. Like, that was my thing, was displaying my dunks and my Jordans, you know.

[Unknown Host 2]

You were a nerd.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah. Yeah. This is in 1999, you guys. This is in 1999. Like time hold up. Yeah. So, you know, and I was a kid, so, like, you know, that felt right. But like, now it's just. But. But this was an again if you know, you know, sort of thing. Now everybody knows. Like, you know, there's. There's no, there's no exclusivity in the, like in the sneaker sort of like.

[Unknown Host 1]

I think we're past peak sneaker for sure.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Sure.

[Unknown Host 1]

I think like a lot of now we're. Now all the sneaker kids are wearing loafers.

[Jay Massa Cray]

No first. Yeah, yeah. Everyone's over. No first.

[Unknown Host 2]

Now you got. Now you got high kicks on.

[Jay Massa Cray]

That's correct. It was. It's a natural progression from sneaker, I guess, growing up. No, but like, but it's not a derby. You know what I mean? It's not. It's not a lace up. It's like some. I don't know, for me, anyways, it's like some somehow. You know what it was? It's. It's, it's. It's sneaker to Birkenstock to. To the Boston. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

So honestly, things.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I'm.

[Unknown Host 2]

I'm sick of Boston, dude.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I know.

[Unknown Host 2]

I'm so.

[Unknown Host 1]

But I think that sneakers are now like a safe space where it's like the losers have moved on.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Thank God.

[Unknown Host 1]

It's like we can now if we want to. Like, you can wear like. I think we're both wearing sneakers right now. The.

[Unknown Host 2]

Are those Karu and Zara?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Oh, yeah. And it shows and it shows. No one Crazy sneakers.

[Unknown Host 1]

Crazy secret. Is that like a.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Like a mule? James is wearing an AS6 mule with.

[Unknown Host 1]

With Kiko. Let me ask you this as a. Not just any, as a stylist, are there like styling hacks that you're like. That is such a creative crutch where it's like crazy sneakers. Or my personal favorite right now is like, yo, add in a cigarette. Make them smoke.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Wait, really? Are we seeing that?

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah, James is seeing it.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Nice. Bring it back.

[Unknown Host 1]

He's getting real anti sig. I'm just like, it's a creative crutch now. It's like, you know, it's cliche at this point.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Really. God, it's so funny what people like. For me, like, cigarettes, I would never even, like, think about bringing up on that because there would be so many.

[Unknown Host 1]

Red flags, even for editorial.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

Are you thinking more like street? Like a. Like, like street style?

[Unknown Host 1]

Think editorial and street style.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Really?

[Unknown Host 1]

Are there any creative crutches? You see, like, stylist really leaning on, like, over, over.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Hold on. Well, there, there. There's always a few. There's always a few that come back. Like, like, you know, there was like, for a while, there was like a couple sunglasses, you know, on the head sort of thing like, oh, belt as bras. Belt as bras have really. Last season were really a thing. Like, they were like everywhere. Like, you know, everyone is using a belt as a bra and it was.

[Unknown Host 2]

Like, okay, sweater over the shoulders like that. What about that?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Sweater over the shoulder?

[Unknown Host 2]

Like they drape the sweater like, you know.

[Jay Massa Cray]

No, I mean, that's. That's always. That's. That. That's. That's a staple over the shoulder, you know.

[Unknown Host 1]

You know who for us at least was a big influence for us was Orally Charlotte.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah, they showed it like all, like, what is that. What is that called? The sweater tie.

[Unknown Host 1]

Like all.

[Jay Massa Cray]

And I. Mine was tied. Yeah, mine was tied to the side. And you guys commented on it.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay, all right.

[Jay Massa Cray]

You guys are commenting on my side. On my side.

[Unknown Host 1]

And we said. We were like, yo, did you style the show?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Like, no.

[Unknown Host 2]

The sweater, the tie a skew.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Skewed. Yes. What about.

[Unknown Host 1]

What about the models jumping?

[Jay Massa Cray]

That's always a classic. We always love a model jumper. Come on.

[Unknown Host 1]

Trampoline brand that you want?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, definitely.

[Unknown Host 2]

What about coat over the shoulder without your arms to the sleeve. Sleeves that. Like that, like a cape? Like a coat?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Like sort of like.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Like.

[Unknown Host 2]

Is that a crotch?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Oh, it depends on the person that's wearing it. Like, it really depends on the person that's inside of it. If you're too precious about it, you're out.

[Unknown Host 1]

Precious? Some good. Like dick print or nipples?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Dick print?

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I love a dick.

[Unknown Host 2]

Torqued nipples.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Again. The willy. The willy underwear. How did you guys ever see this?

[Unknown Host 1]

Those underwear, the pre distressed ones?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Someone wore them to. On the pot.

[Unknown Host 2]

Oh, right. Did do that.

[Unknown Host 1]

Omar Apart.

[Unknown Host 2]

Apollo. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Or Moses.

[Unknown Host 2]

Moses Sumney, maybe. Right, Some gay pop star.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Are all the underwear ads stuffed?

[Jay Massa Cray]

No, they're not really.

[Unknown Host 2]

They're photoshopped after the fact.

[Jay Massa Cray]

They're not. Wait, I don't know about that, because I'm not in the process. But the ones that I have done with the biggest brands that, you know of, like, we've. I've never stuffed them.

[Unknown Host 1]

Really?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Do they have to. Do they, like, fluff a little?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Definitely. You have to tell them to readjust, adjust. I don't know about fluff. Yeah. But definitely, like, you have to be like, okay, buddy, like, give me a second. Move it over to the. It's gonna look better if you move it to that. You know, like. Or, like, just make it go down.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Up.

[Unknown Host 2]

Don't Texas flip that. Respect.

[Jay Massa Cray]

There is little. Like, of course, there's some models that don't. You know that. That are coming on these sets, and I have no idea. And they're just kind of like.

[Unknown Host 2]

They weren't cast based on their bulge to begin with.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Well, yeah, they were cast in underwear for sure. But once they're on set with, like, you know, 30 people around, it's like. It's a little bit of a different story.

[Unknown Host 1]

Did you a. A model show up and you're like, this guy's dick is too small?

[Jay Massa Cray]

No, that's never happened.

[Unknown Host 1]

Good problem to have.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Do you feel like you have to be more sensitive around, like, underwear shoots now, given that we're in?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I really need to sometimes be. Because I'm not. I'm all over.

[Unknown Host 2]

You're handsy.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I'm handsy.

[Unknown Host 2]

What's your job?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I'm handsy, but I really. I'm up skirts and, like, you know, like, down shirts and, like, you know, know. But I'm not the gentlest flower on set, and I'm like, really just kind of just. Just trying to get the look right, you know? So. So I. There. My. My intent is never, I don't think ever feels sexual. Sexual or creepy. It's, like, real.

[Unknown Host 1]

You're here to get the job done.

[Jay Massa Cray]

The job done. So. So that. And it's. Everything's about intent. Right. Like, I'm not coming at them, you know.

[Unknown Host 2]

Right. You're not in your. Bruce Web Weber.

[Jay Massa Cray]

No. No, no, no, no.

[Unknown Host 2]

You ever work with Bruce Weber?

[Jay Massa Cray]

No. I love Bruce.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah. I mean, he is sick. I mean, all the, you know, sexual misconduct.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, I don't. I don't.

[Unknown Host 2]

Allegedly.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Allegedly.

[Unknown Host 1]

Jay, how much money do you make?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Not enough.

[Unknown Host 1]

Okay.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay.

[Unknown Host 1]

What do you spend your money on?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Clothing and drugs. No, I'm kidding.

[Unknown Host 1]

Just drugs.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Clothing. Yeah. Just. Just drugs. Yeah. Prescription Drugs, not your bugs. Yeah. Trips. Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

You get to travel for pleasure food. Pleasure food.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I don't. I don't. I don't like, you know, I don't bat an eye at food.

[Unknown Host 1]

You cook?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I cook as much as I can.

[Unknown Host 2]

Oh, really? Okay.

[Jay Massa Cray]

So even when I'm. When I'm in Paris, I try to cook, like, as much as I can when I'm in Paris. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Why?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Why? Because, like, I eat better that way.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah, true.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I just eat better.

[Unknown Host 1]

What are your favorite spots? New York.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Favorite spots to what to eat.

[Unknown Host 1]

Shikonak steam room.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Like. Like Ava's kitchen down the block. Like. No, I love, you know, I love Odon Forever for sure. Cassette. Cassette. That's really nice.

[Unknown Host 2]

Shout the Les.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah. Always fun stuff to look at.

[Unknown Host 2]

Dinner, a show.

[Jay Massa Cray]

But, you know, I'm not. I'm not such a big restaurant, like, guy, even though it's such a New York thing. So what do you.

[Unknown Host 1]

But he said you spend money on food, so it's just, like, crazy.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, yeah. Like. Like, yeah, yeah. Like, stuff like that. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

Cookware.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, cookware.

[Unknown Host 1]

What's your go to meal? To cook. You have a bunch of friends over. What are you making?

[Jay Massa Cray]

A roast chicken.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay, classic.

[Unknown Host 1]

Classic.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Roast chicken on the Zuni restaurant. Roast chicken from San Francisco. It's like, on bread with, like, some sort of like. Like, with, like, kale. Big kale around it. No, no, no, I know, I know. The kale part is a. It's a leftover from the 90s. You know, it's fine, but, like, it's actually good. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

As an adult. Jay, what is the brokest.

[Jay Massa Cray]

You've ever been the brokest?

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I don't know. I. I guess I have, haven't. I know it. Es and flows, man. Really?

[Unknown Host 1]

Still to the day.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Well, I mean, this day. I'm okay. I'm fine. I'm fine.

[Unknown Host 1]

It's like a 20. Whatever.

[Jay Massa Cray]

You're old. Honestly, like, the last time. And by the way, I never even thought about it then. That was the most amazing thing. When I was, like. When I was like, 26, 25, and, like, I didn't have any money. And it was, you know, it was so rewarding.

[Unknown Host 2]

You're living the dream.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Living the dream. Riding around my crew on a bmx, like, going to, like, Lux. And, like, it was. It was the most amazing time, like, Max Fish, give all your money away way. And.

[Unknown Host 1]

And try to relive that, try to recapture that glory.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Thanks, babe. I'll send you. He's aged out of that Checks in the mail.

[Unknown Host 1]

Well, Jay, we were so looking forward to this episode. Did not disappoint. From what we're sitting. I don't know how you feel, but we are about to find out how you feel, because we would love to know, after spending an hour and a half with the goddamn boys. The boys, straight dudes, call themselves. Do you have, after, you know, someone that's worked with all the legends, all the goats, and is a goat himself. Do you have any constructive criticism you'd like to give us?

[Jay Massa Cray]

I don't really, because I think what you guys are doing is awesome. I like. I like this energy in fashion. It's a. It's. It's. You are part of the ecosystem as well, and that's super refreshing.

[Unknown Host 1]

And tell that to the Met, G.

[Jay Massa Cray]

And are you trying to get an invite to the Met Gala?

[Unknown Host 1]

Not particularly.

[Unknown Host 2]

Maybe just, like, a couple after parties that hit.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It's not that fun.

[Unknown Host 1]

The G is not that fun.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, I mean, I think it was, but I think now you just stand around, you know, you're from one room to one to another room, photo op to photo. Yeah. And it's like, you know, trash selfie time. Back in the day when it was like, 100 bucks to get in, you could smoke and, like, you know, was.

[Unknown Host 1]

It a wild party? Like, people just doing.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I've gone. I've gone with Lee, actually.

[Unknown Host 1]

Oh, how was that?

[Jay Massa Cray]

And. And I went for his. For his. After. It's posthumous, like, you know, for the. For the queen one. He hated that kind of stuff, so it was, like, really, like, difficult for him.

[Unknown Host 2]

I remember.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I remember going with him to the VH1 Fashion Awards, and little Kim was sitting behind us, and he was wearing a Scottish kilt, built, and he had the knife. Yeah, like, the knife in the sock. And he was getting the award. Little Kim was going up and. And, you know, and he. Right. I'm sitting next to him. I'm wearing the craziest look. I have a leather McQueen, leather jumpsuit. You're never gonna find it. I. Someone just pulled it out for me recently, and I was like, holy moly. I'm wearing, like, David Beckham McQueen, like, sort of, like aviator see through glasses. You'll never. You'll never, ever find it. I don't even know if I could find on my phone. But anyways, he was, like, so nervous. He was, like, pulling out the knife out of his sock until he just, like, cut his hand open as he going up. So he's, like, going like, give me. Give me a Tissue. Give me a tissue. And I'm like, ah, he's going up and he's just, like, bleeding.

[Unknown Host 2]

He looks. He looked cool.

[Unknown Host 1]

I found you.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah. That took all of 5 seconds. Looks sick and on Pinterest, bro. Nike Air Maxes, bro. This is going in.

[Unknown Host 1]

Oh, what?

[Unknown Host 2]

Fire with the Air Maxes, dude.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Like, what the. What the hell is that look?

[Unknown Host 2]

I mean, listen, it was a product of the times, my friend.

[Unknown Host 1]

It was a product pre. In the Mary Janes. Damn.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Or not.

[Unknown Host 2]

The Gilly Laces.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

Is that a pro club white tea? I don't think so.

[Jay Massa Cray]

No, I don't think so. Not then.

[Unknown Host 1]

Okay. So no constructive criticism?

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, no constructive criticism. I think just like, you know, you guys are doing. You guys are doing your own little lane, and I think that's really cool. And that's. That's part of, like, style and culture and. No, but we can't. You guys can do it.

[Unknown Host 1]

We can't afford you.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah, we do self style. Honestly, you guys.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Look at Model Z.

[Unknown Host 1]

Well, where can the kids follow you? What? Would you like to plug the.

[Jay Massa Cray]

For yours? I mean, you know, I have. I have an Instagram, my name and J Massacre. I mean, I don't. I don't. I don't follow. There's no, you know. Huh.

[Unknown Host 1]

Great follow.

[Unknown Host 2]

You're a great.

[Unknown Host 1]

You're a great follow.

[Unknown Host 2]

We're gonna send some goons your way. Don't even worry about it.

[Unknown Host 1]

Get the shirtless picks ready.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Some Z sins. Yeah, got the zins over there. Where are you from?

[Unknown Host 2]

Mawa. New Jersey.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Yeah, that track. That tracks. Another southern or Jersey.

[Unknown Host 2]

I went to college in North Carolina though, so.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Right.

[Unknown Host 2]

That's where I picked up smoking. Because you could go.

[Jay Massa Cray]

I'm going to North Carolina on Sunday. I've never been for a show. No. To prep this, like this denim campaign. All right.

[Unknown Host 2]

Sick.

[Unknown Host 1]

Can't wait to see it. Go. Go. Follow this man, please. For bars, for, you know, glimpse into the fashion industry and I guess support the denim campaign that's coming soon. Jay, we want to thank you for coming onto the only podcast.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Thanks for having me. This is super fun.

[Unknown Host 1]

Chef, take us out.

[Jay Massa Cray]

When the Moore family dished cable Internet and switched to siddly fiber, they got so much more. Mr. Moore got more upload speed for next level gaming and live streaming to the masses. With reliable service, Mrs. Moore is no.

[Unknown Host 1]

Longer her family's IT guru, leaving her.

[Jay Massa Cray]

More time to stream games into overtime. Let's go. And young Mason Moore got more done quickly uploading HD product demos and video conferencing.

[Unknown Host 1]

Without freesync. The numbers look good, Brad.

[Jay Massa Cray]

You're on mute. Switch from cable Internet to Ziply Fiber and get more of what you love for $65 less per month than cable@ziply.

[Unknown Host 1]

Fiverr.Com Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Let me point something out.

[Unknown Host 1]

You're listening to a podcast right now and it's.

[Jay Massa Cray]

It's great.

[Unknown Host 1]

You love the host.

[Jay Massa Cray]

You seek it out and download it.

[Unknown Host 1]

You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Did I get your attention?

[Unknown Host 1]

You can reach great listeners like yourself.

[Jay Massa Cray]

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[Unknown Host 1]

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[Jay Massa Cray]

That's L I B S Y N Ads.

[Unknown Host 1]

Com.

[Jay Massa Cray]

Today.