The Mike the Ruler Interview with Throwing Fits

Summary

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Throwing Fits Podcast

Episode: The Mike the Ruler Interview

Date: May 11, 2026

Overview

In this episode, hosts Lawrence and James sit down with Mike Hope, better known as Mike the Ruler—a fashion influencer who’s gone from being a “cool teen” shaping streetwear culture to an industry insider with roles at Balenciaga, Gucci, and major connections throughout the scene. The conversation moves from Mike’s beginnings in the fashion internet at age 12, through standout moments with Supreme, Balenciaga, and Kanye West, to his insights on the current wave of menswear content creators, creative ownership, industry pitfalls, and the process behind launching his own brand.

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Main Topics & Discussion Points

1. Mike's Origins and Early Influence in Fashion

• Starting young: Mike began engaging with fashion forums at age 10 and was influential from the start.
  • “I got into fashion when I was like 10 years old. It kind of started with sneakers…” (05:26)
• Unsupervised Internet access: Parental control paradox—strict upbringing but free internet access.
• Being influential before 'influencer' was a term:
  • “[I was] being an influencer before that was a word... Not in the performative way. In the genuine way.” (05:33)
• Fashion Bros. Interview: The original viral interview in 2014 reflects how early Mike shaped the youth scene.

2. Coming of Age & Personal Struggles

• Wilderness program stint: Mike was sent away during his teens, losing peak years in the early streetwear scene (11:07).
  • “In the heyday of that era, I had it all stripped from me... I was imprisoned and kept from the free Mikey.” (11:16)
• Reentering NYC: Upon returning, he reconnected with his network and jumped back into fashion.

3. The OG Cool Teen Crew & Networking

• Collaborative energy:
  • “It was really like, why friendship was a catalyst for success.” (13:15)
• Reflections on blowing up young: He values the professional network built early, even if he didn’t capitalize on clout in a “bullshit” way. (14:25-15:46)
• On clout:
  • “I value the clout as a vehicle to achieve what I want.” (15:04)

4. Influences & Paying It Forward

• Mentors and community: Mike credits Ian Connor, Bari, and Yams for early support, and notes watching those who were fans of him “go on to do great things.” (09:15)
• Advice to younger self:
  • “Go even harder... there’s people who I made room for... who did not deserve that authority.” (16:32)

5. Perspective on Brand Evolution: Supreme & Balenciaga

• Supreme’s arc: Archive Supreme was originally seen as “dirty used clothes,” but Mike and his crew pushing vintage led to its resale boom (18:00-18:49).
• Supreme’s decline:
  • “The brand is definitely past its prime... It doesn’t hit the same.” (18:54)
• Balenciaga’s rise and stumble: Mike discusses the infamous campaign controversy, scrapped Supreme x Balenciaga collab, and how hubris derailed the brand's trajectory.
  • “They were just flying too close to the sun... It was inevitable.” (21:43)

6. Industry Insider Stories: Kanye, Demna, & Brand Work

• Work with Kanye/Ye:
  • Approached by Ye’s team (“your pictures are on the mood boards”), but learned how ideas get “vultured” in the industry. (26:49)
  • “I found out about Demna’s very first collection... It immediately resonated with me.” (29:10)
  • “I want you to build the largest archive possible of Demna’s work.” (31:00)
• Dynamic with Ye:
  • “It’s two very opinionated people with a strong sense of self... I’d rather chaos over calm.” (33:15)
• Connecting Ye and Demna: Mike was the one who persistently pushed for their collaboration, despite resistance (33:38-34:46).

7. Balenciaga, Product Ideation & Creative Research

• Role at Balenciaga:
  • “Creating product decks... references, sketches, sometimes prototypes... those would become product ideas.” (39:37)
  • Mike is credited with multiple tangible pieces, e.g. the “Gucci goggles” inspired by Chief Keef. (40:39)
• On idea ownership:
  • “Who owns the idea is not who did it first, but who got the most attention for it.” (71:44)

8. Gucci Era & Modern Rap Collaborations

• Work with Netspend: Helped introduce Netspend to Demna, who was later signed as Gucci’s first ambassador under Demna’s tenure.
• Casting for Gucci: Mike now scouts models via TikTok and deep internet lurking, bringing fresh faces into major runway shows. (49:17, 51:12)

9. Take on Fashion Influencers & Content Creators Today

• Difference from the past:
  • “I feel like it’s been really flat for a while... [but now] there’s something that feels more organic.” (61:38)
  • New generation is “completely disconnected” from Mike's era (62:51)
• Post-Virgil scene: Youth today see Virgil “as a guy they paint on murals.” (63:03)

10. Launching His Own Label

• Brand with Charlie Hofstrom:
  • No name yet, focus is on slow, thoughtful creation and “building the world before turning it into a business.” (69:30)
  • Every piece gets its own label and custom attention—world-building in process. (102:21)
• Freedom from legacy brands: Sees his project as a creative outlet free from corporate filtering.

11. Industry Critiques & Institutional Issues

• Wastefulness: The fashion industry’s endless cycles, overproduction, and artificial scarcity are “so greedy,” and the culture is fundamentally unsustainable. (73:26)
• Pricing games: Brands mark up products to sell to “a true idiot... everything else will be sold for a much lower price at our outlets," keeping profits either way. (75:40)
• Merchandiser/Marketing Power: Criticizes merchandisers and internal buyers as “so often clueless” and sometimes actively opposed to the creative vision. (86:02)

12. Personal Style, Shopping, and Collecting Habits

• Personal wardrobe: Over 1,000 Balenciaga pieces archived. Prefers unique samples, custom orders, and pieces with history or rarity over new retail. (80:48)
• Favorite purchase: Finally secured a grail—Helmut Lang orange Astro jacket in men’s sizing, a dream since age 12. (77:01)
• Decision process: Extreme precision and market research guide all purchases. “I’m so precise... I have very little I regret.” (82:44)

13. Final Reflections & Advice

• Mistakes new fashion hopefuls make:
  • “People that are too socially unaware... trying to ask everyone for a handout.” (64:42)
  • Value is built by giving people a reason to include you—not just asking.
• On legacy brands:
  • “Let these brands die.” (98:24)
• On the future: Fashion is in a “creative limbo”—he hopes for a new language from the next youth wave, though not yet visible. (92:27)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On early influence:
  “You were the biggest influence to me. Just know that.” — Mike (09:15)
• On Supreme’s changing role:
  “At the time, you could buy Supreme so cheaply, but there was still such a world to participate in.” (17:27)
• About creative theft:
  “Who owns the idea is not who did it first, but who got the most attention for it.” (71:44)
• On brand cycles:
  “They were just flying too close to the sun... If your strategy is both to sell handbags...and then also try to mock them...it’s inevitably going to create some [trouble].” (21:45-22:59)
• Mike on Demna’s talent:
  “He’s the Amazon of fashion. He does it all, you can’t beat him...he makes a world. It’s a sociological approach to fashion because it reflects humanity.” (90:21)
• On today’s climate:
  “Once people start checking out of these institutions, that creates more room for alternative media to take its place.” (100:09)

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Key Timestamps

• Fit Check & Balenciaga/Supreme hot takes: 02:14–04:43
• Reflections on early internet fame: 05:33–09:49
• Wilderness years & network reentry: 11:07–13:03
• Supreme, vintage archive, and resale market: 17:27–18:58
• Rise & fall of Balenciaga hype: 19:42–23:10
• Kanye and Yeezy Gap story: 26:37–31:46
• Teaming up with Demna: 33:38–36:38
• Product ideation at Balenciaga/Chief Keef goggles: 40:39–42:19
• Casting for Gucci, TikTok scouting: 49:45–51:18
• Modern influencer culture: 61:20–62:58
• Brand creation with Charlie Hofstrom: 69:30–71:17, 102:21–104:09
• Industry critiques (waste and pricing): 73:26–76:18
• Grail acquisition/collecting habits: 77:01–78:49

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Tone & Style

Throughout, Mike is candid, direct, self-aware, and frequently funny. He dissects industry trends with a mix of humility and sharp critique, often emphasizing sincerity, substance, and the importance of building authentic connections. The dialogue is honest but never mean-spirited. There’s a focus on mentorship, learning from mistakes, and a persistent optimism for creative renewal.

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Episode Takeaways

• Mike’s career is a testament to early, genuine passion outlasting trends.
• Friendship, community, and authentic collaboration were his path to success, not chasing clout.
• He advocates for sincerity in both style and creativity—warns against empty engagement farming.
• Industry is in dire need of alternative thinking and honest creative risk.
• Launching a label now is more about world-building than catching the next hype wave.
• Key advice: Don’t expect handouts; make yourself indispensable, and keep adapting.

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Find Mike at @mike_the_ruler on Instagram and keep an eye out for new pieces from his collaboration with Charlie Hofstrom, coming soon.

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For more Throwing Fits, check them out at throwingfits.com or on Patreon.

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Transcript

[Host 1]

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[Host 2]

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[Host 1]

Our guest this week has ruled over fashion since he was 13 years old. He's more than just a cool teen. He's a cool man. And while you in your 20s posting Drake lyrics as IG captions and asking Reddit what socks to wear with your first pair of loafers, he was shaping some of the most influential developments in contemporary fashion. Whether you're a no woman or a lowly serf, bow down as the youngest OG is here to talk. Working with Yay and Demna, the current wave of menswear content creators and everything he's got on the horizon. The stylist, designer and casting director, Mike the Ruler. Mike, how are you?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Hey guys. Long time no see.

[Host 2]

Yeah, Mr. Hope, back in the building.

[Host 1]

Full circle.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

For real. For real. It's been 12 years.

[Host 1]

12.

[Host 2]

What do we have here? Yeah, it was 20. Well, was it not 2015? 12 years.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

20. 14 years.

[Host 2]

2014.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It was like October 2014. Something like that.

[Host 2]

Before we get into the full circle moment, we're gonna do a little quick fit check, but I assume are you in a head to toe balency?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Uh, hat is not Balenciaga I got at a tourist store in Japan the other week.

[Host 2]

Oh, nice.

[Host 1]

Wait, the Jamaica. Yeah, that sounds. That's like, like the. The Sandals Resort hat is from Japan.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Service car misspelled Santo Domingo Checkpoint misspelled.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Rock Shark Kingston, Jamaica trademark and is that your.

[Host 1]

Is that your distressing.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

No, came this way. Really? You know, the pieces like this, you always wonder who designed it.

[Host 2]

A child probably.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Or I guess a child would probably do this dressing.

[Host 1]

You know what's kind of missing is I have one similar, but it's a red stripe hat and it has the bottle opener on it, like on the brim.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

That would be on brand for this hat. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Wait, how much does a hat like that run you? And yen.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Definitely less than 10 US dollars.

[Host 1]

Okay. The fit. Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Bracelet I got at this store in Berlin. It's like this old guy who has this punk store, just sells bracelets, belts, chokers, stuff like that. All the hardware is dead stock from the 80s, so that's pretty cool. Bracelet is a sample soloist bracelet. It's like sterling silver that's been painted. And I got that soloist going out of business. So when I was in Japan, they liquidated all of their remaining samples.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

And it's a brand I haven't been into for quite a while, but they did happen to have some pretty nostalgic things that I picked.

[Host 2]

You a number nine guy?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Not a number nine guy. I definitely was into soloists. Like I would say from fall 2018 until. Very specific in 2020. Just those seasons, personally.

[Host 1]

Just those three.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

What about the tea?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Everything else is Balenciaga.

[Host 1]

Belt chains, everything.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

All right.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Nike Elites.

[Host 2]

Okay. Nice.

[Host 1]

Oh, yeah. Panties?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I'm not sure. Oh, Uniqlo. Okay. Yeah.

[Host 2]

If we called the number, the freestyling tips number on the shirt, where would it go to?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It would. I don't know if it's still active, but Balenciaga made a hotline and it was a bunch of styling tips. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Like what were some examples?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Wear shoes that are too big.

[Host 1]

Did you take that advice? Oh, you did?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

They fit me, but they're definitely visually on the larger side.

[Host 1]

Oh. Like wear shoes that don't fit you,

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

that are oversized and put like insoles in them. Yeah.

[Host 2]

To get the look.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

All right. Shout out to Demon and all of his styling tips. Free ones. For the audience at home.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I don't remember the other ones, but they're pretty good.

[Host 2]

That's a good one.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Either way.

[Host 1]

Are they all, like, wear shit all up and it's stuff like that.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It's fun.

[Host 1]

Okay, well, Mike, let's get into the meat and potatoes. You mentioned this. You came on Fashion Bros. With. With Austin Ass Pizza butts back in 2015. What have you been up to the last 11 or 12 years?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Just run. He dropped that name. He goes by Austin Babbitt now.

[Host 2]

Oh, that's right. His real last name. His government. Shout out to Austin in front of the show.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

You all have to have him on next.

[Host 1]

He was on a while ago. Probably like a little over two years ago.

[Host 2]

Two, three years ago.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Damn, man.

[Host 2]

It's all good.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

So what have you been up to the last 12 years? Just real quick. Why don't you tell us next hour and a half.

[Host 2]

Yeah, go off King.

[Host 1]

We'll turn our mics off.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Let's see. So we can start off with. It's fun. I'll actually do this. That would be fun.

[Host 1]

You were 13 years old when you came on Fashion Bros. Yeah, but, you

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

know, I had already kind of started. I don't know what you want to call it. Being an influencer before that was a word.

[Host 2]

You really were.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, but, like, so not.

[Host 1]

Not in the contemporary definition.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Like, more not in the performative way. In the genuine way.

[Host 1]

Like an influential guy.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, yeah. Yep.

[Host 2]

He's not an influencer. He's influential. So that started when you were a literal child?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It started, like, when I was 12. I. You know, I got into fashion when I was, like, 10 years old. It kind of started with sneakers, I want to say. Like, you know, I've been doing psychoanalysis for, like, nearly a year. And something I figured out recently was, like, my interest in fashion was kind of a way to feel control in my life for all the ways my parents microman micromanaged me. Okay, and you were able to.

[Host 1]

You were in control of how you express yourself?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

You know, my parents were really controlling in some ways, yet gave me unsupervised Internet access since I was five years old.

[Host 1]

Okay, so when did you see your first beheading?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Probably like, nine.

[Host 2]

Oh, damn, dude. That explains a lot.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 1]

Facts.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

And through that, like, I would just get into different subjects, and they would become my hobby for a period of time. And around, like, 9 or 10 years old, fashion just stuck. And I've been on that since.

[Host 1]

And was it kind of more in the streetwear Sense where it was like.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It started with that. It really started with that. I mean, it's funny, I was probably 10 years old, like, going on strictly supreme and hypebeast forms and just reading the entire archive of thread. Super Future as well.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Styles like Geist, every single forum. Not just streetwear, but also high fashion. You know, looking into Eddie jeans or Carol Christian Powell leather jackets when I was 10 years old, just purely out of interest in the subject and finding it fascinating.

[Host 2]

So it's more like studying versus, like now if a kid this age similarly gets into it, they're like, shopping. They're like going to get.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Well, it's not even shopping. They view it as a vehicle, a socially advantageous thing for them.

[Host 2]

Gotcha.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

You know, so that's the difference. I think for me it was just purely like observing and taking in information and being stimulated by that. And I think now it's become a whole different machine.

[Host 1]

And it was. It was like pure, unbridled enthusiasm too. Not just, like interest.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't keep looking at it if it didn't stimulate.

[Host 1]

Yeah, yeah. So can we just talk about the Fashion Rose interview? Which Chuck, Play. Play the interview right here. Do you remember that? Like, what was going through your head when we were recording that day, the four of us?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I don't know, but in retrospect, I definitely feel a little taken advantage of.

[Host 2]

Wait, really?

[Host 1]

By us?

[Host 2]

Did we book you directly? I don't even remember. Yeah, we didn't go through your parents.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

No, I'm just saying, like, it's definitely with some early clip farming.

[Host 1]

Oh, I don't know if clip farming existed.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

No, clip farming didn't exist, but it was definitely proto clip farming. Yeah.

[Host 1]

What was like the. Damn. So you didn't have a dog?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

No, I had a good time.

[Host 1]

Okay, good.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I had a good time. But it's.

[Host 1]

I think we might. We might have come in a little like, yo, these like little kids are like mad funny. And then I think we walked out of like, wow. Actually, you know, respect.

[Host 2]

And you guys had bars. I remember you saying some funny ass.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I just think I was saying dumb. Like, I didn't really know what to say.

[Host 1]

You know, were like supreme. I hate supreme. In like full head to toe, which was kind of fire.

[Host 2]

What was the reception at home or at school? Did you, like, get in trouble?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I don't remember. I definitely like all those videos. I definitely look at the comments like every few years and check if there's any new comments.

[Host 1]

But people, the comments were. At least now Seemingly positive.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

No, now definitely positive because it's like a timestamp. It's like, yo, what the fuck? These kids were tapped in back in the day. That's crazy.

[Host 1]

It's also kids that grew up with you. Yeah, but they were also 11, 12.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It's interesting on that subject. Like, you know, there's kids, so many people that were fans of me at that age who have now gone on to do great things.

[Host 1]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It's really cool when someone, like, pays respect. Yeah. Way. You know, there's people I wouldn't even expect to maybe know who I am. You know, people that have become way more famous than I am, who have come up to me and be like, bro, like, I'm not going to lie, I look up to you. Like, back in the day, you were the biggest influence to me. Just know that.

[Host 1]

Who's someone that specifically that, like, maybe it blew your mind a little bit. You're like, whoa. You knew.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I wouldn't say it blows my mind. Like, I understand it. Yeah. But like, I honestly, by default, I know so many people are fans.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

But to actually have the confidence to own up to that. Oh, is it different?

[Host 2]

It's a humbling thing for.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. Because everyone wants to act like they're too cool for school and wants to act like they just spawned out of nowhere and have no influences or nothing that they learn from. I mean, I had people I looked up to that taught me swag. You know, I'll say it like, one of the biggest influences for me was Ian and Bari, Both of them, like. And it's actually crazy, you know, when I mentioned starting Instagram when I was 12 years old, some of the first people that followed me that had any sort of presence just out of the blue. This was before, like, anyone had co signed me. Yams and Bari.

[Host 2]

Oh, wow. Well, yeah. Yam the ultimate A and R for everything. Culture, music, etc.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I mean, you could obviously tell. Look at Rocky's output since the end passed. Absolutely.

[Host 2]

And just real quick for the audience at home, if you've never seen the Fashion Bros. Ass Pizza Mike the Ruler interview, it would make an amazing double feature. After you've listened to this. It's one of the few Fashion Bros. Episodes that still is exists on YouTube.

[Host 1]

Watch it.

[Host 2]

Complex didn't take down Paul.

[Host 1]

Pause this podcast.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Complex still around?

[Host 1]

Yes, Complex, I believe is still around.

[Host 2]

They're making culture pop.

[Host 1]

It's mostly AI, but pause this interview, go watch that YouTube video and then come back so you can see, like the linear progression from cool teen to

[Host 2]

Cool man might have six figure views, dude. And good comments. I think the reception was.

[Host 1]

How much of that cool teens era has followed you into adulthood besides just, like, the fandom?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Well, it's interesting because, like, unlike the rest of my peers in that group, like Austin, Luca, etc. In the heyday of that era, I had it all stripped from me. Like, my parents sent me away to a wilderness program. I was in a program in Utah for, like, nearly two years after that. So really in the prime of that era, I was imprisoned and kept from the free mic. Yeah. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Were you.

[Host 1]

What were you doing in the, like. What was like your. What were your days like?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Boring. Extremely boring. I had no contact with the outside world and I would just, like, journal down a lot of the information that I had about clothes, like, write it down so I would read it again as if it was new information or

[Host 2]

like, you don't forget it that way.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, we get it too.

[Host 1]

We're getting fits off in the mountains.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

You know, I did have my parents ship me some, like, supreme stuff, but I was wary about, like, bring anything there, especially around those kind of kids. I mean. Yeah, I had stuff stolen from me almost immediately.

[Host 1]

It was like a bunch of bad boys, bad girls.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It was a mix. There were like. They kept the girls separate from the boys, of course, but, like, kids still managed to find a way, which is crazy.

[Host 1]

They always do the kids. All right, what. But, like, what would you like? You would, like, hike?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Like, what were you in the wilderness programs you do, but in the rtc, as they call it, residential treatment center.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Like, you know, they claim, oh, it's like a boarding school, but it's kind of like a juvie. It's like a private juvie.

[Host 1]

So when you came out.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Did you come right back to New York?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. And that was amazing.

[Host 1]

And you, like, hit this. Hit the ground running, like, what?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Oh, yeah, hit the ground running. Even before I came back, because before you actually get discharged, you get to go on home visits. The first time I went on a home visit, I just refused to go back because I was like. I wanted to delay it as much as possible. Obviously that prolonged me being stuck there, but I got to savor the moment for longer.

[Host 1]

What was like, the first thing you did when you got back to New York City? Do you get a bagel?

[Host 2]

So hit soho.

[Host 1]

Go to.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, hit Soho was on my friends.

[Host 1]

Yeah, just hang out with the boys.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

[Host 2]

What was it about you, in your opinion, with that OG crew? All the names you mentioned, but also like Will Mahoney, Jonah Levine, like Steve, a real murderous row.

[Host 1]

He likes to name names.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

Just because I'm plugged in, dude.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I was crazy that, you know, everyone in that group, even like people that didn't have much going on at the time, has gone on to do something. It was really like, why friendship was a catalyst for success.

[Host 2]

Is that what it was? Was it the camaraderie and people helping people that like propelled everyone even, you know, at maybe a slower rate or like what.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I mean, we just all had each other's back and all motivated each other. So that was really something that was a privilege to have to meet those guys at that age.

[Host 1]

What was blowing up? Like, blowing up a 13 year old. 13 years old is not something most people can relate to. Like, what was that like? Just, you know, in those early.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I mean, I think it happens now more than it did back then.

[Host 1]

Okay, that's true.

[Host 2]

That's still, still rare though. Let's be clear.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, I think a lot of it went over my head at the time. Like it didn't. I wasn't really conscious of the effects of it.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

And it definitely. People should give you more like PR training.

[Host 2]

You sure?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

You know, like, don't go on fashion bros. I mean, when you're a child,

[Host 1]

what were, what are like the best things and what are the good things that blowing up online in such a young age?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I got a head start on everything I wanted to accomplish with my career. Wow. So, you know, everything I've gone on to do now, which maybe is more serious, has come from people I met from those times.

[Host 1]

Really?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, for sure.

[Host 1]

So just building out the network early.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Exactly, exactly.

[Host 1]

And then in terms of like being more public facing, because most of your career up to this point has been kind of, you know, shifting and contributing to things behind the scenes. Being like a face and a guy at such a young age, like with clout, digital clout. Like, are you over it? Do you not give a shit? Did you learn your lesson that like it's cloud is not real?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I mean, it's useful. That's how I see it. Like, I value the clout as a vehicle to achieve what I want. Right.

[Host 2]

So did you get a lot out of your system? All the kind of bullshit clout stuff, like, did you get that out of your system early? Because this happened just like, you know,

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I didn't really care about it at that time. And maybe sometimes I'm like, should I have capitalized on it more because some of my peers did. Right. Like Luca, for example, you know, he was really on point with using that to market himself. And I think I just never thought that way. But for me, I'm. I'm glad I chose what I chose, you know? Right. Because I think to me, fame is only a way to increase the odds of getting what you want.

[Host 1]

What do you want?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

What do I want? Power.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, for sure. But power. Not in terms of, like, visibility. I want power in terms of if I have ideas, I want to be able to bring them to fruition.

[Host 1]

We're going to talk about that with. With the fellas. I'm not saying, like, you know, it's not. Maybe it's impossible, just scheduling wise. But do you guys still all hang out?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Less nowadays. But when we do, it's amazing. And it's like no time has passed in between.

[Host 1]

Oh, yeah.

[Host 2]

If you can go back and talk to that version of yourself. And obviously you have all this hindsight now. What's, like, one piece of advice you would give yourself? I. I can't imagine you have many regrets, if any, but what would you. What's. Maybe one thing you would tell that. That young version of you that maybe could affect some change.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

You know, I definitely think I did a good job at discerning which people I liked and disliked and staying true to that. But I think if I could give myself any advice would be to go even harder with that, because I do think there's still people who I made room for or even let influence me who did not deserve that authority.

[Host 2]

Oh, wow.

[Host 1]

Back then.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, back then. Because it's like, you know, they. I think like any kid does, you do things because you want to fit in. Even if you have a strong sense of self, like I did, you do things because you want to fit in. And I just think that there's maybe some people I should have not made room for.

[Host 2]

Fair.

[Host 1]

See, that's something you. A lot of people.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Not anyone I mentioned so far.

[Host 1]

That's something a lot of people don't learn when they're 13. They never learn it when they're 20s, 30s, 40s, or never. Yeah. What do you do with all the supreme that you accumulated from Long?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I mean, I sold all my supreme long ago, but I think supreme was really a gateway into building a wardrobe and accessing fashion, because at the time, you could buy supreme so cheaply, but there was still such a world to participate in. They had so many collections spanning back 20 years with so many pieces in them. So it was a Whole world you could participate in and harness the identity of. And, you know, back in the day, me and Austin were buying box logos for $80 on eBay in 2014.

[Host 1]

What do you go for now?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I mean, it's dead. That stuff is dead now. The Archive stuff, as far as I know. But then, you know, after that, I think Ian kind of was really influenced by me and Austin fudgeing with all the vintage Supreme. And then Ian put that on Cardi and Rocky, and it just exploded and

[Host 2]

you create a market.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

And then it ended up with all these sneaker reseller people. Like, that was always synonymous with supreme, but they never cared before that. They always viewed, like, the Archive as dirty used clothes. Old. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Not a financial instrument.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It was always about having the new drop.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It was never about, yo, I have this piece from 20 years ago. But that's where it changed. And then you had box logo T shirts, like the Bape collab from 99 going for $1,500.

[Host 2]

What's your relationship with supreme right now in 2026?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I don't really have a relationship with Supreme.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I. I think the brand is definitely, like, way past its prime.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

But I have love for what it meant to me.

[Host 2]

Two sales.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I don't even know where I would put that marker. But it definitely, like, it doesn't hit the same. But I don't. I don't blame them. I think it's just like, for myself, I've been exposed to so much and really done my research on fashion, film, art, general culture, all across the board. And it just doesn't feel novel. A lot of things don't feel novel anymore. And, yeah, it doesn't mean as much. Like, when you see something and it just feels so surface level. Right. Like, the references don't feel like deep cuts. Nothing feels, like, obscure or unique.

[Host 1]

Also, you kind of, you know, you can't really control the audience and the market. The market kind of does dictate, you know, the. The general perception. Do you think that there's any parallel between, like, supreme blowing up in this bubble, you know, somewhat bursting a little bit, and Balenciaga at all, where, like, it was kind of the. The hottest in the world. Everybody's wearing it, and then those people just maybe moved on.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I mean, sort of that happens with every brand that has hype. But in terms of Balenciaga, I can definitely blame them for up their own h. Okay.

[Host 1]

All right.

[Host 2]

That was. That was. The call came from inside the house in that regard.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, I would say that they had A lot of momentum and it's insane to think how on top of culture they were and how that was going to go further. For example, with their Supreme Collab, right. They had. This was planned. It was going to be a full takeover of TikTok in 2000, December 2022. TikTok was going to let Balenciaga control the platform for one day. That was going to be the show for the collection that included the Supreme Collab. So every Tick Tock user globally would have the Supreme Balenciaga Tick Tocks on their for you page. And they were going to have all the models and all their, like, celebrity ambassadors. And then a lot of the most famous Tick Tock users at the time make clips where they were wearing the outfit in one of their own Tick Tocks.

[Host 1]

So just going back a little bit, why else do you think Balenciaga up or shot themselves in the foot? They fly too close to the sun.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Well, I think, you know, there was definitely a lack of oversight with their campaign and the reactions it got. But honestly, the Teddy bear child one. Yeah, yeah. What it feels like is, you know, balancing, like, balancing provocation with being a brand that's trying to grow your market share to the absolute maximum.

[Host 1]

Right, right.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

And I think in that case, it wasn't even intended provocation. When I saw that campaign, I disliked it because I was like, this is so like mass market. Like you're doing Christmas gifts with kids. Like, even, okay, cool. You're doing the photographer from National Geographic that did all the photos of the kids with their toys across the world. Like, nice reference, but it just looked like commercial slide.

[Host 1]

That's when I saw the eternal balance. Right. Is like as. As you scale. Not Balenciaga, anybody. Right. As you scale and grow and become more mass market and want to make more money, your coolness kind of goes. Has like an inverse. Like very rarely are the two in parallel.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Well, what it felt like at the time was a lot of what they were doing was like kind of pissing, trying to piss off conservatives and I. Provocation. Yeah. And I think that campaign, there was no malicious intent behind it in that sense.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

But it's like they were just flying too close to the sun in general. And I think that it. It was inevitable. If your strategy is both to sell handbags to that audience and then also try to mock them.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It's inevitably going to create some.

[Host 2]

Was that chaos controversy, that campaign, is that in your mind, like the line of demarcation where, like the wheels start coming off this thing and it's the.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Well, that was the Icarus story for sure. Okay. But I think what really screwed things up was how they handled it.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

You know, kind of passing.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

One apologizing, right.

[Host 2]

Then wrongdoing.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

First blaming someone else, then that failing, and then admitting wrongdoing like they should have just not said anything at all.

[Host 1]

Never apologize.

[Host 2]

So just real quick, based on your insider knowledge, we're talking back to the Supreme Balenciaga. This would have been this, like, nuclear moment of culture with this mass appeal. Talking about the TikTok takeover. This obviously never happened.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. Like, the whole collection was scrapped because of the. I've heard conflicting things about whether it went into production. I've luckily got my hands on a few samples and prototypes.

[Host 1]

There you go.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Future class.

[Host 2]

One for your kids.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Just part of my wardrobe, honestly.

[Host 2]

Do you. Wait, you wear it?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

What do you have?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I have one puffer vest, but they ripped the box logo patch off, but it still has some of the red thread from where the patch was. I have a. A military parka that has supreme graffiti on it.

[Host 2]

Tight.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I have a T shirt that is part of the, like, design process from the supreme collab, where it's, like measuring tape wrapping around the T shirt. I have a hoodie with no graphic, but it has the Supreme Balenciaga tags.

[Host 2]

Oh, wow. Like a real. Like a. Yeah, a fit reference or something.

[Host 1]

So why did you get shit down if it wasn't the. In the midst of all that chaos and controversy? Like, why'd it get shut down?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

From what I've heard is that James Jebbia said it was too fashion, which is definitely kind of ridiculous, given they do collaborations with Yoji and mm6. I mean, at least do a mainline Margiela collab.

[Host 2]

Right? Get their ass.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

So I don't know.

[Host 1]

So it's a.

[Host 2]

It's a cop out.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

And that was always how he was feeling, but he was kind of pressured to do the collab, so it was still going. And then at the time of the controversy, it was a perfect way to pack out.

[Host 1]

Okay, but theory. What if James Jebbia is the one that maybe planted the seeds?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Right in the psyop. He's like. He hide the Twitter bots to be like, yo, take a look at the documents.

[Host 2]

He's a smart guy.

[Host 1]

Zoom in on the documents.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I don't have time for this. But new theory. I. I did hear, like, a manager of a Supreme store one time told me, oh, yeah, it all went into production. It's sitting in our warehouse.

[Host 1]

Damn.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

But, like, I'VE never seen any.

[Host 2]

They burned it.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Like they have burned other stuff. Like who? Who knows? Who knows? But I'm sure one day more things will surface.

[Host 2]

What could have been. I mean, at least everyone's seen these. You can Google the stuff I have

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

literally was sold to me by accident. Like when I was working with Balenciaga, they do sample sales for employees where they sell, like, this is just in Paris at the hq, but they do a sample sale where they sell all the prototypes. And after supreme backed out of the collab in the studio, they were ordered to cut the labels off everything. But they for. They missed some stuff and it accidentally ended up in there.

[Host 1]

The French can't rely on them for anything.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Nope.

[Host 1]

All right, I want to go back to kind of the trajectory of your career. So you got it. You broke out of the Utah prison and you hit the ground running. And one of the first important chapters in your career, you worked with Ye around the Donda albums.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. Do you think he knew you from

[Host 1]

your cool teen years? Like, how did that.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Well, he definitely did know about me because before that, like, starting when I was 15 or even 14, people from his team started to reach out to me.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

And they would even be like, oh, come and meet me for dinner at the Mercer. Let's talk ideas. It was just to pick my brain so some 40 year old could go back to him and say, oh, look at this new idea.

[Host 2]

Your unpaid internship.

[Host 1]

Oh, so you were getting your ideas vultured for from you?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, and that went over my head. I mean, I was young and naive.

[Host 2]

You're just.

[Host 1]

You're just happy to talk to anyone.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I thought I was, you know, getting close to Yay.

[Host 1]

So, dog, you got to hit with the invoice first.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. For real. Well, I learned my lesson, baby. I learned my lesson with that.

[Host 1]

But so people were people in the Yay circle.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

They be like, oh, you know, your pictures are on the mood boards, blah, blah, blah, you know, like. But then it was the. The person who finally just introduced me, like any good friend would was the only person working for him my age was Nico Ballesteros. Oh, yeah. And Nico just made it happen. He just told Yay about me. Boom. Next day, Yay wants you to fly to la. Boom. It all starts happening.

[Host 1]

And what was the most, like, in how long did you work with him?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Close to a year.

[Host 1]

Okay, what was the role that you had?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It started as being, oh, we want you to style research for the Gap collection. At the time, this was when Mo Alola was the Creative director. Right. But there had been, like, 10 collections by different designers, by many different designers, including those on the Yeezy team that just never came to fruition. Yay wasn't green lighting anything. He wasn't happy with it. And I came in, and at the time, there was a collection that was more or less like, could go to market. And I, I. The stuff was cool. It was cool. It was mostly like, Greg Ross's designs. Okay. And, like, I was just kind of doing styling for that. I'm sure one of many people doing that. You know, Yay is just obsessed with vibes. He would. Fashion, to him is entertainment. He just wants to have the creativity happening. It's like having a movie playing. Right.

[Host 2]

Energy in the room.

[Host 1]

But when it came to. So, like, that's all awesome. When it came to actually, like, green

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

lighting, immediately when I met with Yay, I said, yo, you got to work with them now.

[Host 2]

Oh, okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

And then that was just my bottom line with him.

[Host 1]

Because one day you knew damn beforehand or you're just. I mean, this is the guy.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I found out about Demna's very first collection for Vetmont on Style Zeitgeist, back from the form days. This was like January 2014. Someone had published the first lookbook on there. And that's how I discovered it. And it immediately resonated with me. You know, at the time, I wasn't super familiar with Margiela's work. Okay. And I think what really I appreciated was this, like, Duchampian approach to fashion. And I think the thing that Demna has done so well is that approach and modernizing it, making it sellable. That's not even what I'm thinking about. It's more about how this Duchampian approach to fashion can be tied to culture and sociology. I think that why Demna's work resonates with me so much is everything he does has, like, social provenance. Like, you look at a piece and you understand it's referencing like a, A trope or an archetype. Okay. And that's something I really like, but

[Host 1]

because it makes recontextualized.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, but sometimes it's very literal. And I like that he doesn't over intellectualize fashion.

[Host 1]

And so why in your mind were you like, yay, Demna. These two are the two.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Well, for Gap, that's where it made the most sense to me, because Demna has such a good job, he's done such a good job at making this sort of pedestrian clothing into something directional. And I felt that because it was for the gap. That's what would make the most sense, especially the way that Demna approaches American sportswear.

[Host 1]

Right. So eventually that link up did happen. But how long were you in Ye's year? Like, yo, Demna, Demna, denma.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

A few months.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

And you know, Yay would just have these different fixations every week and I.

[Host 1]

Every week?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, every week. Or maybe every two days. One would be, we need to go to Dover Street Market and buy all their Rick Owens. I mean, like, come on, dude.

[Host 1]

Like, like, one of everything or the whole. Just buy inventory.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Like, one of everything. I think at that time.

[Host 1]

Other.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Other times it would be like, let's buy their entire inventory so that.

[Host 1]

No, it's so that no one can buy it. Or, like, for references.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

In terms of references. But it's like, dude, you're buying Marnie and Rick Owens and you undercover. It's just like, dude, DSM is bullshit. Like, if that's your reference point.

[Host 2]

Right, right.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

You're really letting me down, man.

[Host 2]

And he's sending you on these errands.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Like, no, but I would be in the group chat where this would be, and I would just, like, be rolling my ass.

[Host 1]

Do you ever have the corporate card?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. But luckily it was when Yay said, I want you to build the largest archive possible of them in his work. Oh, wow. So you're like, perfect.

[Host 1]

I'm the guy from 2014. Vetmont all the way through everything.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Everything. It was insane.

[Host 1]

So that was your job.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Fun, dream job. The job was more than that. That was a part.

[Host 1]

But, like, that. That was like, a big task. You had to, like.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. You know, when he brought me to Atlanta, that's the mission he gave me. And that's.

[Host 1]

What did you achieve that? Did you achieve the mission?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

For sure. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Where's that archive?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, he's either given it away to random rappers and prostitutes, sold it, it's been stolen by his employees.

[Host 2]

He's just, like, moved on to another thing. And it's like he doesn't even care anymore.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It's all manic. All this stuff is manic.

[Host 1]

What percentage of the people around Yay are just like, yes men that are just like 90. Sycophantic. Sycophantic. Yes, Many.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It's disgusting. Honestly, it's really disgusting.

[Host 1]

Did he value. Because you were saying no.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yes, absolutely. But he would also say, like, you know, sometimes he would say, that's the reason why he appreciated me so much. But then he would say, mike, you're too much for me. You Drive me crazy.

[Host 1]

Shut the up.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Shut the.

[Host 1]

About this Demna guy.

[Host 2]

So the relationship between you and Yay is like, what? Like a push and pull of two very strong personalities.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I mean, it's two very opinionated people with a strong sense of self, and that's always the best partnership. But there's going to be fighting. But I'd rather. I'd rather chaos than.

[Host 1]

And calm. Yeah, and chaos over calm.

[Host 2]

And do you, Demna, because you're undertaking this project of building the largest archive of his work? Is that how that.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Well, basically, like, I had been pushing this Demna thing to Yay for a while. They had obviously collaborated before, but there was this whole stigma against working with Demna. And a lot of the people that were working with Yay at the time for selfish reasons, obviously, because they wanted to be the one who was the face of the gap collaboration. Sometimes people that weren't even fashion designers, like people that were just consulting him on some other thing, wanted to just use this to have their moment. But they. A way something they would use to manipulate him is they would say, oh, you can't let a white designer have credit. You know, we can only work with black creatives. But it's like the mission is bigger than that.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

You know, Ye exists in a world that's beyond race or class or any of those things in his body of work.

[Host 1]

Until it did. So how did you. True.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I forgot.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah, true.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

In 2021.

[Host 2]

Right, right, right. It was a different time, folks.

[Host 1]

Keep the timeline straight. So how did you first. How did you, Mike, start. First start working with Demna through Yay?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And you like, was Demna then not Yay as a stepping stone to Demna? But you were like, you know what? This seems like a better.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Well, I'll give you the full story, please. So I met Demna working with Yay, and at the time, Balenciaga had never really had this moment. Like, it was one of the biggest brands, but there wasn't this cult, like, fandom for it. Sure. And I think when Demna met me, he was really amazed by my knowledge and passion for his work, spanning back to the very first collection. And just also the way I relate to and understand his message in his work, I think that goes over. There's very few people who actually connect with his work. I think especially nowadays, he's the biggest designer. So that's generally the main reason why people interact with his work. But even people that understand it or claim to understand it, often have a pretty narrow understanding of it.

[Host 1]

Or they just wanted to be on the balency trend wave at the time.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I don't know. I mean, he's at Gucci now. You have new people into it, but it often is the same thing.

[Host 2]

But the demon brand, they want to be associated with the Demna brand.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

But they think that he's like an ironic designer or something. That's why they like it sincere. You like, extremely sincere. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. But I think people think sincerity needs to be about some convoluted, like, complex messaging. Sometimes sincerity is just a good vibe, a good image. You know, when Demna makes a dirty, ripped up pair of jeans, it's not a social commentary. It's because that's something that looks good and is fun to wear, and you want to have attitude. You know, you want to go out and look cool. Right. And that's an easy way to make something that looks cool. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Okay, so you guys connected. He. He saw the passion, enthusiasm in you,

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

and then he told yay. Like, actually, this is what the quote was at the time. He said, like, your team really cares about you, but Mike is the only one who I want to work with in.

[Host 1]

When. Like, working with the.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

In the context of the easy gap. Yeah.

[Host 1]

And then how did he. Did he poach you? Did you kind of like.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I worked with them together on that project. That was kind of the liaison between the two of them. Because Demna, smartly, knowing the way that yay works, said, if I'm going to do this collection for you, I'm going to develop it independently Right. From you, and then you can greenlight the final collection. Okay. It didn't work out as planned.

[Host 2]

Kind of like the Ralph Lauren model, but.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. Interesting.

[Host 1]

How many pieces. How many pieces were developed a lot, and then how many were green lit?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

The collection was quite large, like the Demna Gap collection.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

But there's just like a few. I'm guessing it made it into stores. There was definitely a lot made it into stores. It was a really rich offer. I like that I still wear some of those pieces.

[Host 2]

Oh, you were satisfied with the end result, you thought?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, I was satisfied. I mean, of course, you always want to strive for perfection, but in terms of, like, those sorts of collaborations, it was a huge deal.

[Host 1]

So how big was the. The collection that Demna built, knowing that only a small portion of it made it into stores?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Definitely like five times the size of what came out.

[Host 1]

What was the one piece that maybe you saw that you wish had made it or was your.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

There was a pair of, you know, Balenciaga does the pana shoes. It's often for women where it's like leggings with heels attached to them. They've done it for men too a few times, but it's much more obscure. And he did a pair that was like baggy cargo pants with those sorts of, like Vietnam War, like, overshoe type boots attached to them.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

With like a welt sole.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Those were really sick. Yeah.

[Host 1]

So.

[Host 2]

And then a bit.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

A bit autistic.

[Host 2]

Yeah, sure.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Imagine that in a Gap still, because that would be next level.

[Host 1]

Did you then start working at Balenciaga?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Not immediately after. I kept working with Yay for a bit after the collection was finished. But Gap cut all his budgets because he was just using them like a piggy bank for all his personal stuff unrelated to his job with them. And when Gap cut the budgets for all the consultants and stuff, and then it came down to, okay, yay, you want me to come to la? Okay, who's paying me?

[Host 1]

Right?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Crickets. Yeah, I'm not gonna show up anymore.

[Host 2]

Totally.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

So I, I took another job after that and I was working on that for a while, but at some point I. I went to Demna. I said, hey, you know, I would like to devote a more of my time to working with you. What do you have in mind and

[Host 1]

what do you have in mind?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

At the time, it was doing creative research and proposing product concepts. So creating.

[Host 1]

That's a big job.

[Host 2]

Yeah. For real.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I wouldn't call it a big job, but it's definitely something that I was very privileged to have.

[Host 1]

A very cerebral job.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I don't know. I think I'm pretty straight to the point about this thing, but it seems pretty like.

[Host 1]

Like doing creative research and. And proposing a constant moment. That's pretty.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It's what felt natural to me.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

So I was coming up with product decks where it would be essentially like a design proposed through references, sketches, sometimes prototypes, and sharing those decks with him. And those would become product ideas.

[Host 1]

What's like, what was your best idea? Balenciaga, that maybe never came to be.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I can't remember everything off the top of my head. Definitely trying to think.

[Host 2]

Assuming you want to give the way, give away the sauce for free too.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I'm not sure if I'm going to say one that didn't come to fruition, but I would say I can pay

[Host 1]

all this right now. We don't want to give it away for free. Right. Just like how you used to give away your ideas when you're 13 out

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

of the ones that came to fruition. Maybe not the most complex or unique idea, but one I really loved was, you know, when I think of my style influences, of course, one of the first names that comes to mind is Chief Keef.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

And I thought the way that Sosa would, like, use luxury branding was so fun. And the way that he styled these products from luxury brands at the time was very novel because brands had not acknowledged, like, black culture in America whatsoever back in 2013. Right.

[Host 1]

Like the Montclair vest with the stick

[Host 2]

or the big pony polos.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Well, what I was getting at, though, was he would wear the Gucci goggles and he would wear them sideways. And I always thought that was just such a fun way. It was an accessory that he really put on the map for everyone. I mean, soldier boy did it before him, but so made it hot. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, Balenciaga needs to do their version of this with all the crazy, like, frame shapes that had done. I was like, let's just do Balenciaga Gucci goggles.

[Host 2]

And they did.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

They did. And they made a really cool pair. I actually source them for netspend when I was styling him earlier this year. But it's like basically they. Instead of, you know how ski goggles have. Because they have the foam padding, they're like, I'll have a lot of mass. It was basically making ski goggles that are closer to your face and then the strap. This was Demna's idea. It was him taking the concept further and turning it into a really unique product, which is something he's a master at. But it was basically the arms of the sunglasses can be switched with the elastic Balenciaga branded strap. And that's like, yeah. All credit to Demna there because that was next level because he was like, it's not really fun to wear elastic on your head. So.

[Host 1]

So there's a lot. There's quite a few pieces in, like, your tenured Balenciaga that you can tangible product that you can point to. And that's like. And be like, that's a direct result of my research and my work.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. Well, the thing is, because of the scandal at Balenciaga, they were on a hiring freeze for a while, and I started a bit later than we initially discussed, and I worked on his last. During his last five collections at Balenciaga, so. And sadly, you know, Balenciaga develops so many pieces every season, not just like a sketch to final pre production sample. Like, what comes out is maybe like 10 or 20% of the collection. It's insane. But that's how they stay on the cutting edge. Sure. Because those sorts of budgets, to have basically a crazy inventory that Demna can pick from to build the looks for the collection and style something in such an uncompromising way. That's how they win.

[Host 1]

So that final 10, 20%, that's just Demna looking at the whole thing. Hundreds of pieces and being. You know what? It's just going to be this. Because this is the world that I'm building.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. And sometimes that's not always maybe the most exciting pieces, but it's the ones that create the looks and the identity of that collection. Sadly, you know, therefore, a lot of really cool pieces and never see the light. Never see the light of day because, say, La Vie. Yeah. Like, you could make something really cool, but it's actually out of place in the collection.

[Host 1]

Sure.

[Host 2]

So then, so is his superpower as a curator.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I mean, stylist. He's a designer in the traditional sense of the word. He can make a dress from scratch with his hands, but he is the. He's definitely a Swiss army knife.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

You know, like, he's doing the styling on all his collections.

[Host 1]

Okay. It's early days, but what are your initial thoughts on his Gucci?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I think it's just getting started. And the show in February was, to me, the beginning. What came before that, like, the. I think was there was two lookbooks that came before that. The first one very much was Gucci. You know, it was. But you have to do that. You know, when you're replacing another artistic director who had their own identity, you have to kind of segue. You can't just cold turkey, jump into your swag.

[Host 1]

Yeah. How did you. You mentioned that's been. How do you first connect with him and start working with him?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I'm trying to think how I. I think it was, you know, speaking of the old days, you know, there's. I'm sure you guys know this guy, John Ross. John Ross, one of the first people I connected with from LA back in 2014. Him and his little friend group were kind of like the LA version of me, Austin Lucas. Right. Etc. And they recognized what we were doing in New York, and we're like, yo, we really with you guys. We'd love to be friends. So we just started linking up with all of them, and John has obviously gone on to do plenty of things. But I think, yeah, John introduced me to NET at a party in 2024, and then, you know, NET started really becoming a star later that year. So of Course, he was on my radar. And it's really funny how this all intersected, but in June. Yeah, June of 2025 last year, I was at dinner with Demna and I was like, so are you team two, Hollis or team? That's been like, just as a joke. And he was like, well, I actually haven't heard any of that spend's music. I only saw him in the Miu Miu show. And I was like, well, that's funny because Nets music is a lot better than Hollis's. And I was actually connected to the Bluetooth in the dining room we were in. So I played one of those tracks,

[Host 1]

plug in the Ox.

[Host 2]

The first time that Demna ever heard the sweet, dulcet sounds of netspend, they

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

were courtesy of you, I guess.

[Host 2]

Incredible.

[Host 1]

Was this in a. Was this in a restaurant or was this in, like, someone's crib?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It's in a restaurant, but, you know, like, some restaurants have private dining rooms.

[Host 1]

Okay. And they let you. They let you take over the tunes.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I just happened to be on that night. Okay.

[Host 2]

And the rest is history.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Well, so there's more, like, after that, just coincidentally. Right. It was the final Balenciaga after party after Demna's final show, the Couture Balenciaga show in July of last year. And Demna left the party about 15 minutes after that. I was gonna leave. As I was walking out of the party, lo and behold, John and Netspan being like, mike, we can't get into the party. Can you help us? I'm like, oh, yeah. I told the security, let me in. And John's like, bro, like, I really want to introduce Net to Demna. Like, could you help us? And I'm like, yo, Demna just left. But that's so funny because I was just talking to him about you.

[Host 1]

Right. I was playing the music.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Then cobra snake spawns in, takes a pic of me, John, Net. And then I left. But I texted them, and I was like, yo, you're not going to believe this, but Net just came to your party looking for you. And then he said later on, he was like, do you think I should work with Net? I was like, yeah, why not? And then a few months after, he said, I just met with Net and his team. They said really nice things about you. And then he signed Net as the very first ambassador under his tenure at Gucci.

[Host 2]

Incredible.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. So then months later, Net hit me up when he was starting his album rollout, and they wanted him and his manager, Nolan. They don't work together anymore. But Nolan really was the driving force of this, and he wanted me to do all creative direction for Ned at the time. It ended up being much more focused on styling just because of, like, random drama.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

But I ended up doing all his wardrobe during the album rollout. And then this is early life crisis. Yeah, early life crisis.

[Host 1]

When Demna had his big New York Times profile on the eve of the Gucci show, I think he said that he, like, discovered Netspend on a playlist. Is that just kind of, like, simplifying the whole story?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I'm not sure, but he's definitely, like, a big Spotify head.

[Host 2]

That's what he.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I think he's.

[Host 2]

Yeah, it was. There was another rapper he mentioned, as well as Netspend and Fake Mink.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Coop will also walk in the show, but.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. Yeah, that was a huge moment.

[Host 2]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I think that it's interesting. Like, you know, it wasn't the original plan to have Minkinet in the show. It was kind of a spontaneous thing that ended up being really, really cool. I think definitely added another layer of identity to that show.

[Host 2]

Did you consult on the casting for that show?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Not that show. I actually started working on cast with Gucci for the show that's coming in New York.

[Host 2]

Sick.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

But it was cool because when I started working on the cast for the show in New York, one of the faces that I had found this girl from LA that I found on Tick Tock, actually, he liked her so much, the cast of the Primavera was already finished, and he was like, I want her in this show. So they put her in that show.

[Host 1]

Dude, what's your Tick Tock for you page look like right now? Is it all balency? Is it all rapper?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It's a lot of different stuff. It's like, because, like, food recipes, war. War videos. A lot of war videos.

[Host 1]

Like old war. Like Ukraine.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Like.

[Host 1]

Like soldiers being droned. Yeah, yeah, those are tough.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It's.

[Host 2]

Yeah, it's the reality.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

A lot. A lot to be said, but I think that people should be aware of what's going on in the world.

[Host 1]

It's a lot of, like, new. A lot of current events. It's not like dancing and like, yo, check out this viral jalapeno popper recipe.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

No, it's like a lot of war videos.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Funny animal videos. And then like, dude, did you see the.

[Host 1]

You see the dead hummingbird?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

No.

[Host 2]

Sound very.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I saw a very. A very. A very fat dog laying on its back that completely had, like, melted into the ground.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

But of course, you Know, shows me a lot of cool girls and guys that. Yeah. So end up.

[Host 1]

You do casting that way.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, I've been doing it. It was never something I planned on doing.

[Host 1]

Fire.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

But you know, when Demna works with people and trust their taste, he likes to see how they apply that in different fields. And as I said, I was working on the creative research for products with Balenciaga, but he asked, I'd like to see your point of view on casting. I was like, sure. So I started scouting faces for him. And again, while I was working with Balenciaga, yeah, they used models in the last five collections.

[Host 2]

You brought a lot of faces to the Runway. And is most of that happening like through your phone screen or majority through

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

the Internet for sure. But the algorithm doesn't dictate much. I do a lot of deep, deep lurking to find people, you know, like going through someone's following and then looking through all the accounts that they're following. You know, you have to get really

[Host 1]

in it.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

In it.

[Host 1]

In the trenches.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. I'm Hannah.

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[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

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[Host 1]

Once I figured out that Shopify was

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

a thing, I never turned back. I can create a site with my eyes closed.

[Host 1]

Shopify thinks ahead of us, you know, and it thinks about the customer more than anything.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Every day I'm thinking about some other new business, but Shopify is doing it to me because it's so easy to use. It's like, I can't stop. I'm addicted. Start your free [e-mail] with.

[Host 1]

Net though. Was he receptive to your ideas, whether around styling or kind of general rollout? Or is it?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I mean, he has a look already. I think what I was doing was elevating that look and making it more refined.

[Host 1]

And was he receptive to that or did you kind of have to like convince him to see the vision?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

A bit of both. I think. Obviously he Was very on board with my point of view. That's why he hired me.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

You know, he knows my swag, but there was definitely, like, you know, if people are used to doing one thing, it's hard for them to change. I definitely tried to push him to take risks, but I think that a lot of people, for sure, and you need. As an artist, you need to always evolve. And I think that when you're surrounded by people that maybe have a more narrow artistic point of view, it's hard to be fully committed to making brave choices.

[Host 1]

Speaking of celebrities in fashion, we just had the Met Gala occur. Did you see any fits at the Met Gala that were actually. You thought were actually interesting or good?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. The dress that Demna made for Alex Kinsani was sick.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

That was, like, the only thing. Representative.

[Host 1]

Yeah, that was it.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

Has the Met Gala ever interested you?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

And I'm not trying to just glaze Demna. It's just, like, people aren't even trying.

[Host 2]

I think it was the worst Met Gala ever.

[Host 1]

I think general people were like, this was dog. But has the Met Gala ever interested you or, like, the celebrity industrial fashion?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Industrial, not celebrity fashion, but obviously it's a platform for a lot of designers to showcase their creativity.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

So there's, of course, been fits at the gala that have impressed me, but as a whole, like, that sort of event, that's not my world.

[Host 2]

I think the Met Gala even has this kind of standing in popular culture for a lot of reasons, but because of what Demna did with Kim for so many years.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Iconic.

[Host 2]

Right. So I think that, like, you know,

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I mean, it was the one. It was the black jersey that. Yes. Covering that. Really? You can't beat that. Honestly.

[Host 1]

Celebrities. Let's put a celebrities to the side for a second. Talk about real.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

All right.

[Host 1]

For people that are maybe looking for inspiration or just, like, good in the world, who are some guys and girls out there who you think have actually good personal style?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

You know, that's a really tough question in this day and age, because I think that everything's been done before, so it's hard to see something that feels novel. But if you try to get over that desire for newness and just look at things based on pure merit.

[Host 1]

Yep.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Sometimes, like, clean is better than exciting.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

And I think that what impresses me with style is people that use a deep knowledge of fashion to build a cohesive identity rather than, like, people always trying to get attention. Okay.

[Host 1]

Stunt dressing.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. No.

[Host 1]

Stand out on the phones. Viral. Viral fits.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

None of that. What do you think of speaking of rally and people that don't put in the work and just want the clout?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I mean, give me some names, give me some people. You feel like what are getting attention for their style right now? I'll tell you what I think, like

[Host 1]

what people like that we respect or just the people that are getting attention.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Stuff you think is getting engagement Wisdom.

[Host 1]

Wisdom.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

K. Yeah, I think it's just like

[Host 1]

engagement farming Chrome Hearts head to toe, guys.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It's a brand that simply exists now because of the socially advantageous aspect, but

[Host 2]

it signifies in terms of wealth.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. I think people use it for that. I can't look at anyone and think in good faith that they actually find the work interesting beyond that, because Chrome Hearts make such boring, lazy products.

[Host 2]

Right, well, can you talk about real quick? You mentioned this off mic, but the Chrome Balenciaga collab that you pitched, I

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

mean, it's something that I think they had explored previously. I know the former CEO of Balenciaga was interested in it and it hadn't gone anywhere, but I happen just through mutuals to be friendly with Matty Boy. I mean, he's no longer with Chrome. Smart choice on his part, I think. But there was a moment where I was proposing some collaboration ideas and I just thought that that would have a large impact.

[Host 2]

Sure.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I think in terms of doing things that reflect the world we're in. Right. And I think no matter who the collaborator is, Demna can do it in a way that's sick. You know, like he can do something and add a bit of a level of cultural commentary to it that makes it artistically endearing. So I had reached out to Matt about this and he had actually quit Chrome Hearts, like, three days before. What could have been. Yeah, I think it's for the better, probably. Yeah. Yeah.

[Host 1]

But where were we?

[Host 2]

We were throwing some things out. You want.

[Host 1]

You want us to keep naming it Jonathan Anderson?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I feel like a lot of JW's work is designed for the sake of design. I did like a lot of his loewe in terms of, like, what they did with fabrication and treatment. There was some interesting stuff going on there just in terms of the craft, but he is not someone that makes clothes that people want to wear.

[Host 2]

Okay, interesting.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I think that J.W. anderson's clothes1, are sexless, too uncomfortable, too sculptural. And Dr. Seuss, like, what do you think?

[Host 1]

You have a cartoonish quality about them.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

I'm not saying good or bad.

[Host 2]

I'm saying what about this kind of Mini push into menswear that Blaze is doing at Chanel. So, like, what Rocky is wearing or.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It's elegant. It's elegant, but it is unexciting.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I think if you set the bar really low, that is exciting. But I think the people who are mesmerized by it, it's just because it's Chanel and they want to attach themselves to, like, a hyped luxury brand.

[Host 1]

As someone that grew up both right before the pinnacle of supreme and during that. What about your thoughts on Cortez and, like, what's going on with Clinton in the uk? Not just the uk, but, like, honestly, everywhere.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Is that brand still around Cortez? Yeah. Okay, word. Because I feel like they had a big run a few years ago. Yeah. Branding only. The new Virgil branding only does so much. I think that's a bit of an insult to Virgil.

[Host 1]

People are saying it.

[Host 2]

No. In terms of a younger black designer who's not gatekeeping and is involving, you know, people. I mean, culture. I don't mean. I don't mean from a design or intellectual.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I'd have to take a closer look. Okay. Like, it's definitely. They've done some cool activations I saw a few years ago, like, with their Air Max collab stuff with, like, these giveaways, and it was novel. Okay. It reminded me of the old sneaker culture that. It feels like it was my catalyst.

[Host 1]

It feels like it's a. It's a. They're captured a little bit of, you know, lightning in a. Energy in a bottle.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Right. It's hard. Can't manufacture that. It's very.

[Host 1]

Most people now are like, two blase mat match, no match you. But too blas. Too cool for school versus, like, yo, I'm actually gonna, you know, go do the scavenger hunt to get the Air Max or whatever, which is, like, seemingly

[Host 2]

a little bit of an old participation. You got to earn it. Here's one. What do you think of the row?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

The row. It's nice clothes, but it doesn't stimulate me. Right.

[Host 2]

I don't think it stimulates anybody.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I think, you know, back to the Chanel thing. Like, I can't complain about it because it's inoffensive, and it would be nice, like, to see, I don't know, like, my future wife wearing head to toe. Not the commercial stuff, but, like, the more elegant pieces. There's definitely a lot of cool stuff going on. With fabrication, there's. But you can do better than that. Like, my bar is so high.

[Host 2]

Okay, well, he knows what he likes,

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

but it wouldn't disappoint me. It just wouldn't excite me.

[Host 1]

Moving off of brands and designers and like, you know, quote unquote, stylish guys like you were. We talked about this. You were an influencer, except you. This was pre. The modern concept of influencer. And you were a content creator. Creator kind of, but not.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Not even knowing what a content creator was. Understanding the repercussions of that concept didn't exist back then.

[Host 1]

Right. You were just like, you're just influential guy. But what do you think of this new generation that we are currently seeing a flood of in terms of like men's fashion influencers and content creators?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Well, I feel like it's been really flat for a while, and then now through the underground rap scene, there's something that feels more organic. But the way that it's happening now, it's like, so it's finally been enough time where it feels completely disconnected from the thing that I grew up in.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Like, sure. I think even fake Mink or someone associates with the contributions of ASAP or Ian Connor as a way to legitimize themselves. But is they're reaching a complete. Their audience is so young. Right. That it luckily is a new thing. It's been. There's been enough distance for things to actually be a new movement. I think for the past 10 years, things were kind of stuck in this place where it was hard to outdo what had been done. Everything felt tied to what had already happened. Sure. And now these kids are so young and so naive and that there's a new world coming. I don't relate to this new world that's happening, but at least I can give it its props to say it's novel for its own audience.

[Host 1]

Do you think that's like a pre Virgil and not saying, like, his influence is obviously still so tangible, but like

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

these kids being so young, this is the post Virgil. Yeah. There's no Virgil anymore. They don't know who Virgil is.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Do you see Virgil is a guy that they paint on murals. Right.

[Host 2]

Can you do. So then do you see your role or how your place in this as almost like a bridge then?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

But because, yeah, I've been lucky to connect with some of this new generation. For example, like during the Gucci show, Mink and Net squashed their beef. And I ended up hanging out with Mink when I was with Net for like two days straight. And both him and his manager were like, bro. His manager was telling me, bro, I remember you in the Facebook groups back. And then Mink was like, bro, you're such a legend, blah, blah, blah. And that's always satisfying to at least have people. It's like, you could talk about me. You could talk about one of my peers. I like when the nude people at least were aware of the generation that I came up in. It's not even about. Sure, it's validating to have someone acknowledge me personally, but it just makes me appreciate what they're doing when they can say, look, I knew what was going on.

[Host 2]

So you're big bro now?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Kind of like I'm ankh. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Do you think they watched your Fashion Bros.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Episode? Hopefully not.

[Host 2]

They'll listen to this.

[Host 1]

Hopefully.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. Yeah. No, go watch it right now. Understand how much has changed, man.

[Host 1]

Oh, my God, absolutely. As Unk and as someone that. At. How old are you?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

25.

[Host 1]

25. As someone that has, like, had a legitimate chunk of experience in the fashion industry at the young ass or unc ass age of 25. What's one thing you guys. You see guys that are aspiring to work in fashion, they always it up and they always ruin their shot and they can't get out of their own way. Just like a mistake repeating over and over.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

People that are too socially unaware when they're really trying to be on the come up and are just trying to ask everyone for a handout, you know, you need to be like, I've known so many kids. It's actually sad. Like, I've had friends who weren't into this at all, you know, Like, I want to have friends that I can just be friends with. Right. Not everything needs to be related to business. I've had friends who were a way for me to just, like, be me and not have to think about this. But then those friends seeing what I'm up to, then it becomes, like, exciting for them and they think, oh, I can come and do this too. And then they feel entitled to it and it ruins our friendship.

[Host 1]

That's a bummer.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. So don't, like, go around asking people for if you want. Want a place and things like, give people a reason to include you.

[Host 2]

Or is it like, also. Maybe it's an absorption or osmosis thing. Like, if you surround yourself with people and you're not constantly asking for a handout. Is this kind of shit, like, stuff that you can just absorb and learn from? Do you think that's possible just by the proximity? Not, like, if someone's your boy, like, they might not be asking for a favor, but just like, watching how you move. Do you think it's possible to absorb that?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I mean, I'll be honest. Most of my friends now are people that are also up to stuff. It's very hard to be friends with people that aren't in a similar position to you, because living in a capitalist society. Hate to say that word, but, you know, we can't help but be tempted by financial opportunity. Right. And I think it's very hard to ignore that when someone you know is peripheral to that ocean. Yeah.

[Host 1]

What's. What are your interests outside of fashion? Do you have any?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, for sure. Definitely. Like, my interests are less and less about fashion, even if it is my main. And what are they.

[Host 1]

What are they gravitating. Gravitating towards or bending towards?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Music, for sure. Definitely. Music, tunes.

[Host 1]

Hippity hoppity.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Less rap, definitely more electronic. But I think rap left such an impression on me that anything I'm interested in musically is gonna have some flavor of that in it.

[Host 1]

Okay. Are you, like, out raving?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

No, I had. I had that. Definitely not Bushwick. I had Berlin. Yeah, I.

[Host 2]

Do you have a party face?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

A what?

[Host 2]

Did you have a party face?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, I had a party face.

[Host 1]

What's your Friday night look like?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

My Friday night? Working, for sure. I'm just working all.

[Host 2]

Your grindset guy.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. Like, even if I'm not working on something related to my job, I'm working on personal project or hustling.

[Host 1]

Sure.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Like, a big thing for me now is I've been making my own clothes since October of last year.

[Host 1]

Yeah. What can you tell us about that?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It's me and this guy, Charlie Hofstrom. He worked with Shane Oliver for a few years, so he really, like. Also, you know, he's more behind the scenes than I am, but he made things that left a big impact.

[Host 1]

Was he like. They're doing Hood by Air, Kind of

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

like the Shane at the tail end of Hood by Air. More anonymous.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Sick.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

And I just really like his sensibility. We had been in touch over Instagram for, like, two years, and then we finally met up.

[Host 1]

And can you describe what the. Maybe the aesthetics or direction of the clothing?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I think it's what I said about integrating sociology into fashion in a way that's, you know, Demna has his way of doing that. But I think this is just the way to approach clothing in general in this day and age. And Charlie's approach to it is something I liked. And I think we both have our own taste and opinions, things that overlap and things that don't and that is a recipe for collaboration. And so we've been doing everything on our own, like, kind of as a side project. We both have jobs and slowly just going piece by piece, developing samples and showcasing them. You know, we posted a pair of pants in December and address in January. And then Chinese New Year came and all the samples got backed up. Sure. A lot of. A lot of things in the pipeline. We're about to be spamming that.

[Host 1]

And how do you. What are your respective roles in the brand? Like, are you creative?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Everything.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I would say he definitely is the goat when it comes to operations, though, because he does production as his job. So he is helping us with a lot of our suppliers and all of that.

[Host 1]

So he know. He knows when Chinese New Year is.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

He's like, yo, shit's about to shut down for a month and a half.

[Host 2]

Does this project have a name that you can share? What's the timeline? What can people that.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

So as of right now, it's just our names.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

But I think through the. And a big. A big thing for me is I wanted to build the world before turning it into a business. Right. So we're just, once again, because of our own availability and budgets, like, we've just been going piece by piece. But that's also because I want to really create a world rather than, you know, we don't have the budget to make a full collection, Balenciaga level. Right. And do a show. So. But that actually creates a new kind of freedom because you can do pieces that are so disconnected from one another and experiment with all these different, like, kinds of taste. You know, we can make something that's really, like, American streetwear and then also do a really elegant, like, Parisian dress. So that's what's fun and really not something I want to let go of. That freedom that we have is launching your brand.

[Host 1]

Is that something. Did you have to do that? Because it gives you the freedom to go from idea to product without having anything be filtered. Like, you know, whether it's approvals or.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. You know, with all of the brands I've worked with, even a brand that has such a broad aesthetic, like Balenciaga, you know, there's, of course, compromises you have to make because they have their established point of view, and what you're doing has to fit into the universe. No matter how broad their universe is, it still has boundaries to.

[Host 2]

Is this the end goal for you? Like this?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I haven't thought about it like that. For me, it's a. It's a hobby It's a project that allows me to express myself without limitations.

[Host 1]

Well, you've also mentioned a few times how throughout the course of your career, you know, you have put in the work and then others have claimed the credit for like the idea of the work.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

In some situations, that's fair because I've been doing a job for someone else. Right.

[Host 1]

But with a brand, that can't happen. Right. Because it's, it's strictly yours.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

But how complete ownership.

[Host 1]

How often is the vulturing of your idea and claiming credit, how often is that happening in the fashion industry? And is that just the name of the game and something you had to kind of learn to live with?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I mean, who owns the idea is not who did it first, but who got the most attention for it. So it's like this day and age, perception being reality, squeaky wheel perception is reality. And you just have to accept that and use that to your advantage. I think everything in this day and age, and this is a battle that I'm constantly fighting and trying to be on the cutting edge of, is how do I, whether I like what's happening or not, how can I use it to my advantage?

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

If you keep an open mind like that, that's how you survive. You know, look at someone like, yay. Definitely maybe less the case now, but for so long, his willingness to embrace young creatives and adapt to the cutting edge of things is why he's been a star for decades. Yeah. Very few people can be in that position and that requires having an open mind. So many people get comfortable and they're, you know, yay. Of course, has a massive ego, maybe the largest of all. But unlike most people with the ego, he knows he has to adapt and evolve. So many people get stuck in their ways and think they can just do the same thing forever and that is why they're successful. But people get bored easily.

[Host 1]

Sure. What's that? Okay, it sounds like the, the mindset you have is like a very positive facing one where it is like, yeah, okay, yeah, I got over whatever you got to learn from that. Use it to my advantage. But is there something you see, like what's the most up thing you see happening regularly in the fashion industry? Maybe it's like a warning to people that are getting into it or just like, you know, by calling it out, maybe it changes something.

[Host 2]

You could.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

How wasteful the industry is. Oh, sure. That's the easy thing. If we think just outside of people's behavior, like the fashion industry is so greedy and isn't they've lost the plot. I mean, everyone knows this, right?

[Host 2]

Everyone knows coming home to roost. When you look at like, you know, sales, bottom lines, things of that nature.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I mean, it's like you're putting out new products even when the stuff you made hasn't sold because it's all everyone's gambling. And it's like these brands, when they control their supply chain, control their distribution, it's like no matter what price point they sell something at, they're going to make a profit. So they don't care. They can keep the stuff in store for two months, put in the outlet and then just put a new product, keep doing that even when their sell through is like 10%.

[Host 2]

How disheartening is that to you as someone who lives and breathes and loves this world?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It definitely makes things feel less precious. I mean, most of my wardrobe consists of samples or couture pieces because. Or things that are completely worthless. Like, I feel like something I've really kind of settled into is there's no reason to own something unless it's truly special. Therefore the rest of the clothes in your wardrobe, of course they should be good clothes that look good, fit you well. You should have a strong sensibility of what your style is and that should be reflected in all components of your wardrobe. But I don't want to have everything be a liability. You know, I want to own things that I'm not worried about losing or damaging. And there's just no reason to own something that's worth $300 when you can always buy it again secondhand versus owning something that's truly precious. Yeah, that's just so much more satisfying.

[Host 2]

Absolutely.

[Host 1]

As someone that's been in the industry for a minute, like how much truth is there to the price gouging nature of brands where they're like, you know, what with our label on it, we know people are going to pay 10x what we actually should sell it for, for like that healthy margin. Because, you know, it seems like in recent years people have and then the brands are just like, oh, it's inflation, it's the cost of supplies, it's global

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

supply chain luxury brands are just in full nihilism where they basically view it as we're going to have a small chance of selling everything to a true idiot who's going to pay like an absurd premium for it. And then everything else will be sold for a much lower price at our outlets or at private warehouse sales. And at the end of the day, we're still turning a profit. It so Whether we sell it at a loss or we sell it at a 10x20x premium, it doesn't matter because the balance sheet looks good.

[Host 1]

Is that. Is that the VC squids getting their tentacles into it or is that just the fact that we do live in a dirty C word society?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I don't know. Like, it definitely seems like this is the mentality of brands, regardless of the contribution of VC investors and consumers are

[Host 2]

just reinforcing this negative behavior just based on their consumer habits. Right.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Like I would say people are getting smart and getting pretty hip to this, but there's just always, every day a new idiot is born.

[Host 2]

There's a sucker born.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, exactly.

[Host 1]

All right, Mike, what was the last piece of clothes? Speaking of, you know, sucker. We're all suckers.

[Host 2]

Sucker ass behavior.

[Host 1]

Sucka ass behavior. What was the last piece of clothing you bought yourself?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Thinking, well, what I can say, it's not the last thing I bought, but something I bought recently that I'm really happy about. Yeah. Is I bought a fall 1999 helmet laying Astro jacket.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Those are not so special on their own, but an orange one.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

In men's sizing with all of the components intact.

[Host 2]

Wow.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

That's a unicorn.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I've wanted that since I was 12 years old. I used to use a wayback machine to look at the helmet laying website when I was 12 years old and look at all the old product images on the helmet site. And I always wanted orange astro and to find the like, archetypal iteration.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

In orange, which is the most iconic color of it. In men's sizing is a myth. Like it's almost impossible.

[Host 1]

It's a unicorn.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Almost impossible. Yeah. You can find it in women's siz. Find like the version that doesn't have the fur collar. That's just a biker jacket. You can find one that's in horrible condition and is a size 54. But to find a. A size 46, 48 or 50.

[Host 1]

So how'd you find it? You just like have like your. You just like to have your people.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I honestly have not been checking for this stuff. So who knows? I may have missed a few over the past few years because helmet laying has not been my focus. But I randomly decided to check and I saw it and I think the person I bought it from is reselling it, but I was still happy with the price I paid.

[Host 2]

And are you gonna wear that? So you acquire girl. Of course you're gonna wear that.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Course. What's the point of buying?

[Host 2]

I know.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I don't wear but for something like

[Host 1]

that, do you buy a lot of stuff for reference? Especially now that you're building your own brand?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

No, the stuff I buy for reference is completely worthless.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

I'm like take a work of thing, try to make it into something special.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, yeah. I mean like, like I don't most of the time these big brands are not buying extremely valuable designer clothing for the references. Right. They have very experienced tailors and pattern makers on their teams that can take something with a poor fit but has valuable aesthetic qualities and reinterpret that something

[Host 1]

really trickjack and just make it in cashmere.

[Host 2]

Yeah. It's a product away. Dude.

[Host 1]

Where do you, where do you shop the most?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Where do I shop the most? I mean a lot of my spending had been while I was working with Balenciaga. I had the ability to special order pieces like that never went into production which they didn't really have a capacity for. This was so many emails, so many follow up emails with people that were doing that when it's not their job to do that.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

And also have no motivation to do it but I would just harass them enough until it got done.

[Host 1]

And persistent is a quality that you exhibit quite often.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And what he wants.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. I. If I believe that I can get the outcome I want. It doesn't matter if it's a challenge, you know.

[Host 1]

Did you learn that Utah

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

seems like.

[Host 1]

It seems like it seems like it's some you would wear and like while

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

trying to survive in the outdoors in, in Utah. What I learned is that sometimes you just have to accept you have a lack of control of the situation. And this is a bit of that. Knowing that no matter how infuriating it is, you're gonna have to send three emails for every reply you get.

[Host 2]

Right? Totally.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

But at the end of the day here I am wearing head to toe pieces that no one else has.

[Host 2]

Sure.

[Host 1]

Squeaky wheel gets the drip.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, I heard that one before.

[Host 2]

What percentage of your wardrobe is Balenciaga? Whether it's rare or you know, just stuff that you've acquired.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Dude, I'm not gonna lie.

[Host 2]

Feels like a lot.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It feels like a high of over a thousand pieces of Demna.

[Host 2]

What's your storage situation like?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I have a large storage unit.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

The archive climate controlled plastic.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I package myself very nicely but who knows the definitely not a specialized storage facility.

[Host 1]

So let's get that, let's get that humidity down. You know what I mean?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Let's get the budgets up.

[Host 1]

Yeah, right. The budgets up.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

There you the one piece of clothing you wear, you find yourself wearing the most.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Wearing the most. H. Sadly, it's this one hat I bought in 2007, summer of 2017, I bought Rotterdam Terror Corps. It's a gabber.

[Host 2]

Sure.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Group and Raph reference their branding and because of that, I mean, I do like their music, but it's pretty one dimensional.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

But at the time I was very into RAF and they had a cool hat on their merch site, which they stopped making nearly a year afterwards and it just happened to fit very nicely, you know, like, not every cap is so flattering.

[Host 1]

Totally.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. It was actually a cut, weirdly enough. It was a cut and sewn cap for five euros. And they must have made like so many of them. Right. But I bought it and I've seen a few people buy that hat because I wore it.

[Host 2]

Oh, wow.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Like people who have no interest in that or even are not that interested in RAF that bought it.

[Host 2]

It's like, it's a cool hat or whatever. And Mike wore.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, I need it. But it's like.

[Host 1]

And it cost €5.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, but I wore that. Had it. It's still intact and it's got such a nice patina from sun fading and being what I put in the washer and dryer. And it's just free. It's beautiful. Like, you can't make a cap like that in a factory.

[Host 2]

No, you have to wear it to

[Host 1]

get it that way.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It's true. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Have you made a purchase recently that you kind of regret, clothing wise?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I'm so precise about the clothes I buy. It's good that I definitely have very little I regret. It's probably been over a year since I bought something I regret. And I do buy a lot of clothes.

[Host 1]

How so? You're trying to think how to ask this. Like you become laser focused on something. What's like the. The personal quality control or. I mean, you go through before you pull the trigger because it sounds like you are a precise.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

You know, some things I'll spend an insane premium on if I truly want it and feel that there's no alternative. But generally when things are in abundance, I try to get the best price I can and I do my research on the market for that. I also make sure I'm informed about the things I'm buying. Like when I buy things secondhand, I need to know what that thing was like when it was brand new to make sure I'm not buying something that's altered or deformed, formed in some way. Like you Know, the Japanese really ruined so many good pairs of Eddie and Raph pants by hemming them.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

So they had to wear them.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

All those manlets. Really up as a king of Manlets. At 5:11, you're not a manlet.

[Host 1]

You're like an average lit.

[Host 2]

Yeah. You're totally the king.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

The king of manlets.

[Host 1]

You're six four with these blunts.

[Host 2]

He's on Mike.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

That's true.

[Host 2]

Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You're perfectly middle. Now that you have the orange Astro in, like, perfect working condition. What's the next grail? What's the thing that we're.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Next grail? Yeah. Well, just to finish that point, like, you know, I want to make sure that the things I'm buying are worth what I'm paying for them, and I don't want to buy something that's, like, missing an integral feature.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

You know, like, if something is supposed to have a drawstring in the hood and it doesn't have the drawstring, I can't wear it the way I want to.

[Host 2]

Sure.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. The way. The way I want to wear it.

[Host 2]

Absolutely. Or the way it was intended. Sure, sure.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

So sometimes these things are arbitrary.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

But sometimes they really.

[Host 1]

But for the most part, you need to be in its original format.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 1]

So that you can decide how to alter it or fix it or.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Exactly, exactly.

[Host 1]

Make it yours. But. Yeah. What's the next grail?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

The next grail.

[Host 2]

In case anyone listening has this so they can sell to you at a premium, them.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Certain things I'm buying, I don't want to say, okay, because I don't want someone else to buy them. I make. I buy a lot of custom stuff.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Like, as I said, work when I was working with Balenciaga and now with Gucci, like, it's a. I want to get pieces that are unique. Right. And therefore worth the money.

[Host 1]

I'm paying samples that never made, like,

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

canceled products that didn't go into production.

[Host 2]

You want to make a personal order for you.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, exactly. And not just because they're rare. So often these end up being the pieces that I like the most because at the end of the day, these brands are running a business the way they want to wear it. And just because Demna and the designers had a cool idea doesn't mean the brand is interested in trying to market that.

[Host 2]

Right, right.

[Host 1]

Absolutely. The creativity and the commercial ability, sometimes they're, you know, direct odds with one another.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I mean, I think the brands and the people on those teams are so out of touch that often their gauge for it is completely off. And some of the things that don't go into production would be the most commercially successful.

[Host 2]

So we're blaming the buyers and the merchandisers.

[Host 1]

The merchandise, of course. Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

They're clueless. So often clueless. And you know, for people who love to talk about data, they're not following the data really.

[Host 1]

So you see, they're going off their gut.

[Host 2]

Their intuition.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yes, they're going off their intuition. I think a lot of these people start to develop a feeling that they are the creative director in some capacity.

[Host 1]

Merchandisers do have so much internal power now. Right. Because they do. They are armed with the tech, but at the same time it makes them more risk averse because they don't want to put their name on something that might not have a sell through rate.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I think close to 100. Yeah. If you're working in anything regards to the artistic output of a brand, that includes buying and merchandising because you, you're controlling the brand perception and the brand image, you should be on board with the point of view of the designer. So often, you know, for example, at Balenciaga there's people that work in those positions that are controlling what consumers get to buy that actually resent Demna's work and are working against it. They're like rogue agents within the organization, inside the house.

[Host 2]

Snakes and goofies.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yes.

[Host 1]

What about marketing? Is that true of marketing too? Where it's like, oh, for sure, you

[Host 2]

know, that's our job.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

You could have, for example, I don't only want to talk about Balenciaga, but some of these things are so important in terms of context. Look at the difference in Balenciaga's campaigns from 2024 onward versus the ones before that.

[Host 1]

Even though scandal and post.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

No, this is. There were still good campaigns after the scandal. It's. The team changed internally. Got it. And someone else was put in charge of it that had their own point of view.

[Host 2]

Okay, real, real quick, while we have you, I'm sure you have a lot of opinions. What do you think of Pierre Paolo's new Balenciaga? How bad, how bad people are. Like there's, I've seen memes where it's like literally using like one product example, like a terrible hoodie, where they're like, you know, years of integrity just now destroyed because of the product.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

What do you, what do you think of the new.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I mean, definitely years of integrity destroyed.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

But it really shows that the people who are making these decisions are not tapped in Whatsoever. And it's not because there's no cult following of pure Paolo. He doesn't have consumers. No one was buying his Valentino.

[Host 2]

The pink.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. So this is really what you call an industry plant. It's the mafia of the fashion industry sucking each other's dicks.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

And I think they'll fire him in a year, probably. But it's sad because they had all the warning. You know, if they had just listened to what the big dog was saying and hired Martin Rose to do the menswear, they would be in a much better commercial position right now.

[Host 2]

Now, who.

[Host 1]

Who else are you with? We've talked a lot about Demna, obviously, but, like, who else are you with right now that you do think has, I don't know, some good things on the way?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. Let me think in terms of, like,

[Host 1]

Martin Rose, like, currently in her own stuff.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I think she definitely has, like, an established aesthetic, and I do respect her work, but it doesn't excite me. Right. I think it's a bit too comical. I think Demna does similar concepts in a way that's more precise. Okay. I. I have the same criticism of Glenn Martin's. I feel Glenn Martin's so often tries to do an idea that's like a demn idea, but lacks restraint and refinement when it comes to executing those ideas. So it looks like just some ridiculous, massive fabric. Right. Okay. In terms of people I like.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It's really all in the past.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

You know, a big designer that I've fallen in love with over the past two years has been Victor and Rolf.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Obviously not anything I would wear, but in terms of the artistry, the collections that they were doing in the early 2000s were just insane.

[Host 2]

Okay. It's like an underrated poll that, like, that's like a buy low moment right now. I don't think there's any, like, archivists

[Host 1]

for veteran Rolf has Demna becoming the. The standard has that kind of up where it's like, people are aspiring to do what he did, and.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

And he's the Amazon of fashion. You know, he. He does it all. You can't beat him. Right. But, like, when your aest is so broad and it. He can reinterpret the language of so many different designers, like, not in a referential way, but do the archetypes that back them. Like, he can do rock and roll. He can do heroin chic. He can do minimalism. He can do hip hop. He can do. He makes a world. And that's why I say It's a sociological approach to fashion because it reflects humanity. It's not just like a narrow aesthetic gotch that exists on the Runway.

[Host 1]

I think the runaway success, the wild success he had with Balenciaga has set a standard where people, I mean, you kind of mentioned a few. They were. They're aspiring to do Demna and it's like, no, you shouldn't do that because you're not him. Like, you should.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I think he definitely, you know, everyone is influenced by each other. Demna has been influenced by many great designers and has influenced many large designers too. But it really feels like they don't understand his work when they try to interpret it. For example, with casting, I think a lot of people focused on the extremes of his cast at Balenciaga. Right. And thought that was what the identity was. And then when they tried to do it, it looked comical. Versus Demna did it in a way that was so nuanced. And I think he's just really someone to learn from. I. I don't think that. I think fashion is much bigger than one person and. But if we look at this generation, he is the biggest and he is the one to learn from.

[Host 2]

When you say him and Virgil. But then like, also like. And then to. To James's point and your point, like, are we bullish? Like, do we feel like the glass is half full where, like, there is a generation that use him as a bar and an example, but, like, actually can do their own thing. Like, do you think there's going to be Demna and Virgil acolytes that do amazing? Like, do you have faith that they can do amazing work or is the shadow too long?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Oh, I definitely have faith, but I think it's going to take some time. Okay. I think that we're too face, too fresh, too close.

[Host 2]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. But I think like, in the next five to 10 years, we're going to really see someone who was influenced by that, who finds a completely new language. It's going to require that, like, right now, everything is too derivative.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

And there needs to be more distance for those sensibilities to evolve into a new story.

[Host 1]

We need the bin slack and brand to drop.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I mean, no comment.

[Host 2]

Okay. Sick.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Perfect.

[Host 1]

Mike, how much money do you make?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

No comment. Okay.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

What do you.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Not enough.

[Host 1]

Not enough. Beside, besides clothes, what do you like to spend your hard earned money on?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Traveling with my friends.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

Where have you been recently that really. That you really enjoyed?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

So, you know, I've been to Japan a few times and this time I said, I'm gonna get out of token. I mean, I'd been to Osaka previously, which I really enjoyed, but this time I did a road trip and went into the countryside and went to the mountains, went to a small town, saw some historical sites, and that was really fun.

[Host 2]

Inspiring.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I wouldn't say inspiring, but it was just a really good time to connect with one of my closest friends.

[Host 2]

Sick.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Like, one of my favorite parts of the trip was stopping at a gas station in a small town in the mountains and feeling like the people that worked at the gas station had so much more personality than the conformist people you see in Tokyo.

[Host 2]

Okay, interesting.

[Host 1]

What's. What's on the bucket list of, like, next up destinations that you want to hit up?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Definitely more in Eastern and Central Europe.

[Host 1]

Okay. Have you spent time in Eastern Europe? Because that's where, like, Denmark obviously has a lot of roots in Georgia.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It's just like, I have been to Georgia. One of my friends, she's Georgian, so we went with a group of friends for her birthday a few years ago.

[Host 1]

Country.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I had a great time.

[Host 1]

Birthplace of wine.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. Great wine, great food.

[Host 1]

What was. What's the.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Everything in Georgia is very cheap if you're using dollars, of course, so you get a lot of good value. I mean, I could say the same about Japan.

[Host 2]

That's right.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Is everyone in currency mogging?

[Host 1]

Yeah. Is everyone in Georgia kind of wearing, like, Balency esque fits?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

No.

[Host 2]

No.

[Host 1]

Just curious because Devin's got to be, like, their most famous, right?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, it's gotta be.

[Host 2]

Well, him and Gur. What do you think of Gur?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Dude, you know, I think the most famous Georgian before Demna was Stalin.

[Host 2]

Oh, okay.

[Host 1]

Heard of him? Heard of him.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Wait, like, so what do you. Okay, real quick, quick. Vetma, as it stands right now, what. What do you. What are your. What is your perception of this thing? Is it a shell of what?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I mean, like, haven't they not shown a Runway for like a year or a year and a half?

[Host 2]

Because I. Because to play devil's advocate here, I think you could. And maybe this is too ironic for, you know, a sincere person to appreciate, but it's so almost like ridiculous in such a copy of a copy of a copy of itself that it's almost like in its. Its gaucheness or ridiculousness may be impressive in a way where it's like, could anyone else something up so bad?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I don't know. It's just like, there's no irony. It's just, like, embarrassing.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

The same thing about pure Paolo Balenciaga. I mean no self awareness. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Is Girma fun hang? Have you ever hung out with him?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, it seems like it'd be like

[Host 1]

a ridiculous like show you ridiculous.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It's funny. I had met him a few times back in the day at the Vetmont showroom and he definitely seems like a scheme. Okay. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Schemer.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Eastern European.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I think that's a generalization.

[Host 1]

It's not racist. It's a bit racist. Are you taking care of yourself or is it just like because you're so focused on work, you have. Do you have like a work life balance where besides travel I try to

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

get like eight hours of sleeping.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

Yoko restaurant.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, thanks.

[Host 1]

But the diet could be better.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Diet could be better. Everything could be better. You want to improve everything and be the your best self.

[Host 1]

How many hours a day are you working?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Depends on the day, right? It depends what you categorize as work. Like you know, because I generally do freelance work. Yeah. I, I complete my deliverables but then I have other stuff I want to work on.

[Host 1]

Sure.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I tend to feel like work is the most stimulating thing to be doing.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

So I'm generally like trying to work as much as I can.

[Host 2]

You're a locked in individual.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. If I'm not working, I kind of go crazy.

[Host 1]

Do you say no to projects that get brought to you?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Rarely. I would say generally like the projects that I get offered are only the things I'm interested in.

[Host 2]

Oh, okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Because I don't interact with too many people outside of what I'm interested in.

[Host 2]

Oh, okay. Is that so is that the hack? Stay focused in your.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, just go for what you want and keep like a precise, have precise targets.

[Host 1]

Could you ever work a full time job at some corpo fashion gig or do you have to be in control of like your schedule and your output and you're having your own shit going on the side too?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

It depends. It would be hard to find a scenario like that that I had the passion for to be fully committed.

[Host 2]

Do you ever think, okay, obviously you're working on your own thing. Sounds really exciting. It's still kind of in its the early stages, so to speak.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, I mean I like doing so many different things that it's like as of now, I don't want to stop doing some of the other stuff I'm doing to just make clothes.

[Host 2]

But could you see yourself in a maybe artistic director capacity down the line for an established house or something?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Doing my own brand, yeah.

[Host 2]

Oh, just your own brand? Not for anything that's already established.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

No, that's. That's definitely not the way I think young people need to let these brands die.

[Host 2]

Okay. I mean, kill your.

[Host 1]

Kill your idols.

[Host 2]

Truly.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I think, like, the reason why Demna Gucci works is because it's the biggest designer at the biggest brand.

[Host 1]

Sure.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

And that's the. Reflects how our industry is consolidating.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

And I think one day, you know, when there's no longer a Demna, I'm not sure if a brand like Gucci can exist.

[Host 1]

It really is like the. The. The. The tippy top of the period is just consolidating. Right. In. Not just in fashion, but it's in. Across all sectors of, like, the economy and culture.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. For economic reasons. But I also think people are in a state of creative limbo right now, and I. Maybe we need a world war to inspire.

[Host 1]

Don't.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Be careful what you wish for because we're on the press.

[Host 1]

I think there's happening right now.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

And if you look at history, like, those are often the things that in, like, tragedy inspires a creative renaissance.

[Host 1]

This is the League of Shadows ruled by Ra.

[Host 2]

What is it? Tough times build hard men hard and create good times.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Sure.

[Host 2]

Times create tough men to good times create soft. Soft men, soft men create bad times. So on and so forth.

[Host 1]

The League of Shadows, they want to.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I just think everyone.

[Host 1]

Bro, you watch.

[Host 2]

We both watched on the plane.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Everyone is very comfortable right now, and I think that causes the lack of inspiration. We're all in state of atrophy.

[Host 1]

But do you think we're waking up a little bit? Because I. Using the Met Gol example, it's like. Like we've been saying, like, what the is this? And finally feels like people. It feels like that's kind of transcended into the larger conversation where more mainstream, more normie folks are just like, checking, yo, what the hell is this? Yeah, what are we doing?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I think it's. But that's definitely. Once people start checking out of these institutions, that creates more room for alternative media to take its place.

[Host 1]

It's like, don't pay attention to the thing and it will die. Right.

[Host 2]

Don't give it oxygen.

[Host 1]

Exactly.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. Don't give it oxygen.

[Host 2]

I only asked about the big houses because I think Bago might have an availability within the couple seasons.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I think people need to forget about Balenciaga. Oh, yeah.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I think you can't top what Dema did there.

[Host 2]

But your last name is Hope, so something to look forward to, folks.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Sponsor Voice 2]

Mike.

[Host 1]

Hope, do you have any before we get you out of here, do you have any constructive criticism you would like to give us? Throwing fits now that we spent a glorious hour and 40 minutes together? The floor is yours.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I'm glad that I came in here. Pretty naive to the podcast.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

And it allowed me to be in the moment.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Glad.

[Host 1]

This is great.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I'm not a big podcast guy in terms of brother being a listener.

[Host 1]

Same.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

So I don't have much context other than our Fashion Bros interview.

[Host 2]

So what's better? What went better, you think?

[Host 1]

It's also amazing. I'll just say, like, to. To only kind of know you in two moments. Fashion Bros. Cool teen. Mike the Ruler. And now Throwing fits. Mike Hope.

[Host 2]

Cool man.

[Host 1]

Cool man. It's pretty cool to see like the.

[Host 2]

The growth, the evolution.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Thank you.

[Host 1]

For real?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah. I mean, it's inevitable, right? If it was 12 years and I didn't change, that would be.

[Host 2]

No, that would have been insane. If you had showed up on or. Or if you were like.

[Host 1]

If you were like this as a 12 year old, that'd also be weird.

[Host 2]

Precocious. You were a precocious kid, though.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Maybe if they had me on, like. Like hgh.

[Host 2]

Yeah, something like that.

[Host 1]

Where. What would you like to plug? Where can the kids follow you? The floor is yours.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Mike at Mike the Ruler on Instagram. It's my only social media.

[Host 1]

Do you keep your tick tock as a secret?

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

I don't. I've never made a tick tock before. I just have a tick tock account to look at. Tick tock.

[Host 2]

Right, Right.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

What's. And do you want to plug. Did you say the name of the brand? You said it's your names. Right.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Mike Hope and Charlie Hofstrom for now. Now it may evolve into something more early days, but.

[Host 1]

But you're so focused on the product, you're not even thinking about, like the.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Literally that. Literally that. So far we've been doing something cool where we create a label for each piece that's tied to the identity of that piece. Oh, wow. So we made a pair of American sportswear sweatpants and put a Ross dress for less tag on them. We made a elegant silk dress and put a Bernard Arnot tag on it.

[Host 2]

There it is.

[Host 1]

When's the next piece? Do you have a timeline for that or.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, yeah, this month.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Keep it locked. You know, we've had since February stuff developed in China and there is a sequence that we want to post things in. So we actually have stuff ready that we're not publishing yet because we're waiting for something else to be finished.

[Host 1]

Got it, Got it.

[Host 2]

Keep it locked.

[Host 1]

Yeah. You're not living post to post. You're. You're lining it up. There's a plan. There's a grand vision.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Yeah, there's a plan. I think my dream for myself is even just shooting one of the pieces like the sweatpant we shot on me. So I wasn't really, like, too stimulated by that. But, you know, I scouted a model and booked them for the dress I made. And also that was the final fitting of the dress. So I was adjusting, correcting the fit on the model that we were shooting it on and being so hands on, on with that aspect of the design process and seeing it, like, go from just a prototype to like an actual product. And the image making aspect of seeing. That's cool.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

On a face that reflects the identity of the piece is like, whoa. World building process in real world building is so satisfying. And I can't wait when it's an entire rail of samples and I'm doing looks, styling looks with it. That's like, that's sick, dude.

[Host 2]

Your enthusiasm is coming through. And for what it's worth, I think we're both really rooting for you.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Thank you.

[Host 1]

The sweatpants are fire. Mike the ruler. Thank you for coming onto the only podcast.

[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

Thank you. Throwing fits, Chef.

[Host 1]

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[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

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[Host 1]

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[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

If the host cancels verbo care if

[Host 1]

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[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

actually no pool to heat. Definitely a verbo care thing.

[Sponsor Voice]

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[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

instead of mom, that's a family thing.

[Host 1]

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[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

That makes sense. Sorry.

[Host 1]

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[Mike Hope (Mike the Ruler)]

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[Host 1]

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[Sponsor Voice 2]

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