The Sage Toda-Nation Interview with Throwing Fits

Summary

Throwing Fits — The Sage-Toda Nation Interview

Date: July 13, 2026
Guest: Sage Toda Nation (Founder, Sage Nation; Creative Director, YMC)
Location: Paris Fashion Week, Conference Room
Duration: ~1 hr, 20 min (content summary covers core podcast content only)

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Overview

In this lively and candid episode, the Throwing Fits hosts sit down in Paris with Sage Toda Nation—a rising star in British fashion, founder of Sage Nation, and newly installed creative director at YMC. They cover Sage's meteoric rise from bedroom designer to running two influential labels, the intricacies of building a brand, the pressures and pleasures of fashion in 2026, and balancing creative vision with business demands. Throughout the conversation, Sage offers honest insights, dry British wit, and plenty of practical wisdom for anyone intrigued by the modern landscape of independent menswear.

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Key Segments & Timestamps

1. Birthday & Paris Vibes ([00:30]–[04:13])
2. “Fit Check” & Personal Style ([04:13]–[05:16])
3. Surviving Paris Fashion Week Heat ([05:41]–[08:13])
4. Brand Identity – Sage Nation’s Name, Japanese Perceptions, and Storytelling ([10:00]–[14:24])
5. Defining Contemporary Menswear & Sage Nation’s Philosophy ([14:24]–[19:28])
6. Origins and Humble Beginnings ([20:38]–[23:06])
7. Building a Team and Surviving as an Independent Brand ([23:58]–[24:52])
8. SS27 Collection, Key Pieces, and Moving Beyond Big Pants ([26:09]–[30:19])
9. First Breakthrough in Japan & Commercial Realities ([30:43]–[35:47])
10. Collaboration Philosophy & “Clown Shoe” Hate ([36:40]–[40:14])
11. On Copycats and Fast Fashion ([42:11]–[44:24])
12. Becoming Creative Director of YMC ([44:31]–[54:04])
13. Life Balance, Burnout, and Food ([59:39]–[61:08])
14. Perspectives: Menswear Trends & Critiques ([62:19]–[65:24])
15. Industry Landscape – London Fashion Week & Independent Designers ([66:34]–[68:48])
16. Personal Consumption: Brands, Shopping & Uniforms ([69:16]–[73:31])
17. Money, Struggles, and Growth ([73:32]–[76:22])

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Detailed Discussion, Quotes, and Notable Moments

Birthday, Paris, and Surviving Fashion Week ([00:30]–[08:13])

• Sage turns 28: “Every summer fashion week… that sucks. The worst, man. Everyone around me is just tired of it. They're like, tired of you, something again.” — Sage ([01:13])
• Celebration gets lower-key every year: “Less and less friends every season now. This time, we like, three men turned up. Everyone's exhausted.” — Sage ([01:27])
• Paris heat struggles: “It's hard. Everyone out here… it's been a tough season. I'm kind of used to it. Japan is horrible in the summer.” — Sage ([05:47])
• Rescue strategies: Wet towels in the pocket (“Keep it wet, keep it damp” — Sage [07:04]), lots of AC, and “if you got AC, you're having a good season. If you don't have AC, it's looking rough.” ([07:34])

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Fit Check & Personal Style ([04:13]–[05:16])

• What Sage Wore:
  • Birkenstock Professional line (“for people that do real jobs… chefs, nurses”)
  • Sage Mineichi Trouser (“Mineichi means ‘every day’ in Japanese”)
  • YMC Curtis shirt (“my everyday shirt”)
  • Uniqlo “wife respecter” tank (“in white; worn third day in a row”)
  • Cubits sunglasses (“lost them four times, bought them four times—favorite sunglasses”)
  • Jewelry: “Scandi brand silver chain, vintage ‘67 Omega watch, silver bracelet”

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Brand Identity: Sage Nation’s Name & Japanese Connection ([10:00]–[14:24])

• On his name: “So Toda is my real dad's second name… Nation is my stepdad — Peter Nation.” ([11:05])
• On why people mistake Sage Nation for a Japanese brand: “Everyone loves Japanese things, don’t they? … It’s always been a thing. But… if you know me, I’m from Milton Keynes… But… we do draw a lot of inspiration from Japan.” ([11:54])
• Storytelling skepticism: “I just thought it's so refreshing because in a world where you're made to feel like you have to have a story about every collection, it's not realistic. … If it's some good clothes this season, some nice colors, that's what it—don't force it.” ([13:19])

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Defining the Brand & Attitude to Trends ([14:24]–[19:28])

• Early Mission Statement: “Perspective, balance, and purpose… core values of the brand.” ([14:24])
• On categories like ‘streetwear’: “I'm actually from a streetwear background… respect to streetwear, it’s not an insult… but you’d be dumb to think it is streetwear… I like to think of us as a luxury brand.” ([15:44])
• What is luxury? “Luxury is time… spending a lot of time on your pieces and design and what you do.” ([16:21])
• Creative restrictions: “I like to work to rules and kind of restrictions… when everything’s possible, it’s difficult.” ([19:18])
• SS27 palette: “This season we had reds, green, blue, navy and brown.” ([20:25])

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Sage Nation’s Humble Beginnings ([20:38]–[23:06])

• How it began: “Started the brand in the bedroom… all the fabric stacked high… then my partner, Yumi, was like, ‘I can’t do this, we need to figure this out’…” ([21:13])
• First studio: “The first studio was a storage—like a big yellow storage… We were working out the storage container, they didn’t have a light in there.” ([22:02])
• Key insight: “It took about a year and a half to get out the trap [storage unit]. Then I acted like it never happened.” ([22:28])

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The Business Side: Team Building & Survival ([23:58]–[24:52])

• Biggest challenge isn’t fashion—it's people: “Hardest thing, finding the right people… people you don’t need to babysit, who actually work hard when you’re not watching.” ([24:12])
• Working with friends: “We work with friends, but… I try to keep that a bit separate.” ([25:00])
• Talking less, doing more: “I don’t like to talk that much about what we’re doing—I like to just do it.” ([25:37])

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Bestsellers, Trends, and the SS27 Collection ([26:09]–[30:19])

• Best pieces: “Even though it’s summer, I think the outerwear this season is really special… the trench coat this season is our take, the Sage take on a modern day trench.” ([26:24])
• Decluttering trends: “We’re moving away from big pants… It just doesn’t feel as relevant to me.” ([27:42])
• Return of skinny jeans: “To me [skinny jeans] are quite refreshing.” ([28:04])
• Box pleat trouser origin: “That trouser… was the come up… It was the worst pattern because I did it myself… The first box pleats, they had no fly or buttons.” ([30:19])

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Breakthrough in Japan and Wholesale Realities ([30:43]–[35:47])

• First accounts in Japan: “Picked up about 15 accounts from the first [showroom]. When I got the order in, I was like: oh my god…” ([33:20])
• “Greg the Egg” as agent: “I pestered him for six months… now we’ve been on a journey ever since.” ([34:09])
• Different markets: “UK is the biggest market for us right now. The States are also growing… Japan is still big, but with the exchange rate… it’s tough.” ([34:26])
• Worst seller? “It’s gotta be a knitwear this season… great knitwear, but it’s just summer. It’s a tough market.” ([35:05])
• On T-shirts and graphics: “We don't really use any print. We don't do any graphics. … I think only through collaboration.” ([36:16])

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Collaborations & The “Clown Shoe” Incident ([36:40]–[40:21])

• First real backlash: “We did a small shoe with Officine Creative… We were getting a lot of hate for that. … It was the first time we saw some real… clown. Clown shoes.” ([36:52])
• On criticism: “I was enjoying it. It was nice to get a bit of… it was funny. … This is what it feels like to have a product that people really love or hate.” ([37:22])
• Upcoming collabs: “We’ve got three collaborations coming… one is British leather shoes, the king of that. … One is Japanese outdoors, one is football casuals/London.” ([39:22])

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On Fast Fashion and Copycats ([42:11]–[44:24])

• Box pleat knockoffs: “Yeah, like, the box pleats, we’ve seen it. … You’re flattered as long as you know what the original is.” ([42:32])
• Fast fashion dilemma: “The fast fashion is like, weak because there’s a kid who… just sees the cheapest, most readily available thing.” ([42:50])
• Limits of innovation: “There’s only so much you can do… I don’t think there’s a lot we do that’s crazily innovative. … With some things like the box pleat, that is our thing.” ([44:13])

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YMC: Becoming the Creative Director ([44:31]–[54:04])

• The approach: “So, YMC came into my life… two and a half years ago. … I met the owner, Jimmy, an OG in the fashion game.” ([44:43])
• Taking over after loss: “Jimmy was left… frazer was the creative side… then Fraser sadly passed away… it was devastating for the brand.” ([45:00])
• Inheriting a legacy: “He said all he's been left with… was the mood board that he got left with. … Just loads of pictures of cowboys.” ([46:46])
• On the archive: “Boxes upon boxes of old imagery… so inspiring… the esthetic and language at the time was very much what I’m into now.” ([48:51])
• First tasks: “We took over the shop… cut a load of stuff that… wasn’t in the direction.” ([51:21])
• Lesson from Bezos: “Any new employee is not allowed to do anything for the first six months. Absorb it… I think that’s a good rule.” ([51:38])
• Juggling two brands: “It’s four seasons a year [at YMC], two at Sage… it’s a lot.” ([52:44])

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Work/Life Balance, Burnout & Food ([59:39]–[61:08])

• On burnout: “No, I have a good work life balance now.” ([59:42])
• Hobbies: “I eat a lot. I love food. … Cook a lot, Japanese, sausage pasta.” ([59:46])
• Best London food spots: “Bar called Space Talk… E Mono, cheap and cheerful Turkish. … Chinatown, always, can’t miss, soup dumplings.” ([60:17])
• On Japanese food in London: “I struggle… there’s not many good Japanese.” ([61:17])

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Menswear Trends and Pet Peeves ([62:19]–[65:24])

• Fashion annoyances: “Caps, right… trucker, big crown… just not my thing.” ([62:27])
• Trend optimism: “Skinny jeans… Clothes that aren't overly complicated, overly explained. I think there’s a lot of great brands coming out of London.” ([63:20])
• Other inspiring brands: “Nick Daly, Saeed, J.L.A… That’s the scene right now, lots of innovation.” ([63:54])

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London Fashion in Flux ([66:34]–[68:48])

• LCM is dead: “London Fashion Week used to be… such a thing… now it's just done. We've all just had to find ways around that.” ([67:05])
• No incubators/competitions: “We’ve never been part of any incubator… I went for one [competition], got to the final round, they said no. I said I’m never doing that again.” ([68:22])

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Daily Uniforms, Shopping, & Philosophy ([69:16]–[73:31])

• Personal wardrobe: “Got a bit of Helmut [Lang], some Armani, some Comme stuff. … I collect a bit of that vintage.” ([69:03])
• Most-owned brand (besides his own): “Uniqlo… you can’t beat it.” ([70:27])
• Is Uniqlo fast fashion? “No, big fashion. … They just do what they do, not trend-based.” ([70:39])
• Favorite piece: “My Westminster coat… worn that to absolute shreds. It’s just a good overcoat—London, you need something like that.” ([72:44])

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Money, Scrappiness, and Growth ([73:32]–[76:22])

• How much money do you make? “Not enough.” ([73:38])
• Most broke behavior early on: “Just like cereal all the time, you know. … Shreddies.” ([74:13])
• Secret to getting started: “Me and my oldest friend, Randy, got in a little Uber crash and claimed on the insurance… that was what helped with the first samples.” ([76:16])
• Biggest splurge: “Food. … Good produce, butchers, fishmongers. I don’t regret it, but when you look back… it’s a bit like wow.” ([77:09])

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Final Thoughts & Sign Off ([78:06]–end)

• Constructive criticism for Throwing Fits? “Keep doing what you’re doing. Killing it.” ([78:13])
• Where to follow Sage: “Instagram is underscore Sage Nation. YMC London. … That’s it.” ([78:49])

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Notable Quotes

• On luxury: “Luxury is time. Time is luxury. Spending a lot of time on your pieces and design and what you do.” — Sage Toda Nation ([16:21])
• Philosophy of letting the product speak: “If you like it, you like it. If you don't, you don't. I think there's too much over-intellectualizing clothing right now.” ([13:56])
• On the struggles of independent brands: “Cash flow is hard when you're running a brand. That's the number one killer of businesses, right?” ([23:14])
• On copying and inspiration: “If you’re doing something good and people like it, it’s gonna happen. … There’s only so much you can do.” ([43:00])

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Tone & Character

The episode blends humor, candor, and insider wisdom in true Throwing Fits style. Sage is grounded but self-deprecating, open about the hustle behind his success and quick to downplay hype or ego. There’s a clear sense of camaraderie between guest and hosts, plus plenty of meme-able moments, banter, and hot takes about everything from trucker hats to the ‘return’ of skinny jeans.

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End Summary: Why Listen?

This episode offers a rare, unfiltered look at global menswear through the eyes of someone shaping it right now. Aspiring designers, fashion fans, and anyone interested in “how it’s made” in today’s market will find a feast of practical insights and behind-the-scenes tales, delivered with a British-Japanese flavor and plenty of Throwing Fits edge.

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Follow Sage:

• Instagram: _sagenation
• Brand: Sage Nation, YMC London

Best episode moment:
“Sometimes you gotta get in a minor car crash to start a fashion brand.” — ([76:16])

Transcript

[Host 1]

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[Host 2]

Our guest this week is here to sage the vibes and pledge his allegiance to one nation on the pod. His pants might be big, but the pedigree at only 27 years old is even bigger. He started designing in his bedroom and now look at us. We're potting in a Parisian conference room. He generously took some time off from showing his Spring Summer 2027 collections and he's here to chat wages in London. The hardest part about running his own brand and taking a second job at the helm of a legendary label. Founder of Sage Nation and creative director of ymc. Sage Nation. Sage, how are you? Is this heat?

[Host 3]

Yo, this is heat. Long week.

[Host 2]

It's this heat.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

How you doing?

[Sage Toda Nation]

I'm good. Thank you for having me. Happy birthday yesterday.

[Host 3]

28.

[Sage Toda Nation]

28. Wow. Let me update this intro. Birthday was yesterday.

[Host 3]

Happy belated, brother.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Every summer fashion week. So wait, that sucks. That's the worst, man. Yeah. I think everyone around me are just tired of it, you know, they're like, tired of you something again.

[Host 2]

So how do you celebrate? How do you celebrate this time?

[Sage Toda Nation]

We just had some. A little dinner, few friends. Less and less friends every season now. This time we like free man turned up. Everyone's exhausted. Everyone's like, knackered.

[Host 3]

This fucking guy again.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Look, if I do the brand for a lot longer, it's going to be every single summer. So I need to trash. You know, maybe one day I'm not. Need some.

[Host 3]

Can you legally change your birthday? Is that like your name?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Can you do that? Maybe we need to.

[Host 3]

You might need to look into that, dude.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Into that. I mean, maybe we, you know, proper Japanese. When I get my Japanese passport.

[Host 3]

Oh, that's right.

[Host 2]

Are you going to properly celebrate when you get home?

[Sage Toda Nation]

No, no, no.

[Host 2]

Is it? I'm.

[Sage Toda Nation]

I don't really like birthdays.

[Host 2]

Yeah, you're cancer.

[Sage Toda Nation]

You cancer as well. Yeah, my birthday's next week. We're sensitive.

[Host 3]

So you guys are. You guys are cancers for sure.

[Sage Toda Nation]

We feel things. We feel things.

[Host 3]

Anyway, Just want to get that out of the way. You know, the Pl. Let's get into a fit. Check sage real quick. Little head to toe. Break down what you're wearing on the pod today.

[Sage Toda Nation]

So it's kind of just what's clean, like what's not left.

[Host 2]

It's the second to last day. It really is. What's left.

[Host 3]

Clean as you're not dirty.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Left. I got like two more boxes in the case. Got a few socks. So what I've got on this. Where do you want to go? Head to toe. Toe.

[Host 3]

It's up to you, birthday boy.

[Sage Toda Nation]

We got the. The Birkenstocks, the professionals line.

[Host 2]

Are you feeding those?

[Sage Toda Nation]

You might need to. You can. You can smell. I mean, probably. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Good thing the pool chlorine from down the hall is masking that.

[Host 3]

I know.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. What are they?

[Host 2]

The professionals. What is that?

[Host 3]

Extra support.

[Sage Toda Nation]

The professionals line. It's just better made, I guess.

[Host 3]

It's just for, like. It's for chefs and janitors.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Chefs. It's for people that. Nurses do real jobs. You know, people that really do stuff. So they're just good. They just last longer. They're great shoe. They sent a pair out to me.

[Host 2]

Nice.

[Host 3]

That's good for being on your feet all day, right? Slinging clothes.

[Host 2]

What are the pantalonics?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Exactly. And it's hard work, this fashion stuff, you know? So we need the professionals. And then we got my Nichi. We got the sage Mineichi Trouser.

[Host 2]

That means every day in Japanese.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Every day in Japanese.

[Host 3]

Thanks for breaking that down. I had no idea it's going to happen this episode.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Wearing these every day. We got YMC Curtis shirt, which is like my everyday shirt. Then we've got Uniqlo. Wife protector.

[Host 3]

Sure. Yes. The wife's the wife respecter.

[Host 2]

Wife honor.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Wife respecter.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

In white. It's been worn. Third day in a row. No.

[Host 3]

Come on, bro.

[Sage Toda Nation]

In the hotel on the way here, I almost did the detour. Got the fresh one.

[Host 3]

It might have been worth it. Dude, that's kind of nasty. No, no, you're great.

[Host 2]

You smell great.

[Sage Toda Nation]

We're good. We're good. So. And then I've got. Yeah, what else have I got?

[Host 3]

Shades.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Shades. Cubits. My trusty cubits. Wear these all the time. Proper British. These are just my. Like, I've lost them four times. Bought them four times. Favorite sunglasses.

[Host 3]

Very nice.

[Host 2]

You don't have a plug of cubits?

[Host 3]

I can just. Yeah, right.

[Host 2]

You're a dozen at a time.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, we got. Yeah.

[Host 3]

Oh, yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

I got a guy There. But I think after the second time,

[Host 2]

he's like, bro, you're abusing this privilege.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

What about the hardware on the neck?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Hardware on the neck. This, my girlfriend bought me this. This is a Scandi. What's the brand called? Scandi brand. Can't remember the name. Silver. It's nice. Then I've got Amiga on the wrist. 1967, proper British Omega Amiga, vintage year. My mom was born. Special year. And then we've got Silver bracelet that

[Host 2]

my girlfriend bought as well, so another brandless gift.

[Host 3]

Shout out to her. She's wonderful.

[Host 2]

Are the panties also being worn for the third day in a row?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Uniqlo. Oh, yeah.

[Host 2]

Freshies.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Fresh panties for you. Yeah, I pulled them out.

[Host 3]

Nasty boy.

[Host 2]

Fit check complete and you're sipping on a can of Lutecia. Oh, mineral.

[Host 3]

They come with the conference room.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, I like sparkling water.

[Host 2]

Well, you got one. Wait, you wait. You got natural and straight gas?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, I got. I got two of them. There we go.

[Host 2]

You go sip or sip? What do you.

[Sage Toda Nation]

We got. We got the fancy water.

[Host 2]

You go sip or sip or do you. What are you going to do?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Bit of both.

[Host 3]

Double fist.

[Sage Toda Nation]

All right, mix it. Mix it up.

[Host 2]

All right, Sage, first question. How is your pale British ass surviving the heat in Paris?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Good. I'm. It's. It's hard. You know, everyone out here, we were just saying it's. It's been a tough season. Everyone's knackered. But I just came from Greece before this, so climatized a little bit. Obviously, Japan is horrible in the summer.

[Host 3]

Sure.

[Sage Toda Nation]

So we're kind of used to it.

[Host 2]

You know, you're in Greece and you're like, bro, I don't want to. I don't want to go to Paris.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. I sent you the picture on the beach. Yeah. We were in a resort. I haven't been on a holiday in that, like that in ages. You know, like, proper.

[Host 3]

It's better to take one before versus after. Like, for you.

[Sage Toda Nation]

For me? Yeah. I. I wanted to get. It was really good because it meant that the team. We had to get everything done like a week earlier than what we normally do. So it was a good test and, like, I think the team hated me for it.

[Host 2]

But Sage is going on vacation. We had to work double hard for the first half of June.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, exactly. But at the same time, they're kind of sick of me as well. They need a break, you know? Like, my main guy, Taran, he. He doesn't mind not seeing me for a bit.

[Host 3]

He's like yeah, go enjoy.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't text me. Enjoy your holiday.

[Host 2]

Give us some breathing space.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. So we were on the beach there, chilling. Then we got to Paris. Heat was crazy. First two days were mental.

[Host 2]

Did you do, like, the Japanese wet towel around the neck or, like, on. On top of the head?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Like, in the pocket?

[Host 2]

In the pocket, in the pocket.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Keep it wet, keep it damp.

[Host 3]

Yo, keep your pockets wet, fam. You heard it here first.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, A little towel in the pocket. Always. And then we fresh. Freshen that up every day. Keep it in the back pocket.

[Host 2]

Do you have AC at the. At the showroom?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Got AC at the hotel.

[Host 2]

At the showroom.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Showroom, we got ac.

[Host 3]

Okay.

[Host 2]

So I heard this that buyers are actually spending more time in the showroom. Yeah, it's not that they're, like, in and out because they want to, like, get done with their day. They're spending more time in the showrooms because at appointments and deployments are running late because they don't want to leave the ac.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah. Like, if you got ac, you'll get. You're having a good season. If you don't have ac, it's looking right, and it's.

[Host 3]

And if you think you're having a good season, it might not just because the clothes are good. Not in your case, because your. Is good. But don't. Don't get it twisted. It might just be the ac.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, it might just be the ac. Like knitwear just not getting touched.

[Host 3]

Yeah, right.

[Sage Toda Nation]

We got these. We got these knits in the showroom. No one's touching.

[Host 3]

No dice.

[Sage Toda Nation]

I'm picking them up. Like, you need to look at this. Thank you. But, yeah, we got aircon, and we're also in the basement, so it's nice and cool. So good.

[Host 2]

Do you think Paris Fashion Week needs to take a page out of FIFA's book and start adding hydration breaks where we just pause for, like, three hours every day?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, Yeah. I think to be fair, that's kind of what we're doing every. After every appointment. Keep hydrated, keep drinking, keep. Been having a lot of fruit. Watermelon.

[Host 3]

Oh, smart.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Pineapple. It's good. Last night we had steaks. Not good.

[Host 3]

Same, bro. I'm regretting it for sure.

[Host 2]

We're at war. Yeah, this sucks. This sucks. But you know what? We're soldiering on together. Speaking of FIFA, hydration breaks. We got the World cup going on. Is it coming home this year?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Oh, controversial subject. I'll be honest. No, no, it's not coming home, man. It's not coming home. I think we'll do all right. I think we'll do all right.

[Host 3]

But semi Finals.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Semi. Finals. Semis. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. I reckon that's where it's gonna end.

[Host 3]

That's usually where it ends.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, that's normally where it ends. But I think we just got too much pressure. I think we just overthink it too much. I think it's. It's not easy, is it?

[Host 3]

No, it's the World cup, dude. It's one of the hardest tournaments to win. Are you feeling bullish on Japan?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Japan? I think it's great. They're the underdogs. I think they're doing good now. But they've lost like three of the main players, I think. Oh, yeah.

[Host 3]

I think there might be lots.

[Sage Toda Nation]

A few players, but yeah, at least we got. I mean, England, we got Kane, Harry Kane, Jude. I was just saying the other day, he doesn't. Thing about Kane is he doesn't. He doesn't breathe through his nose.

[Host 3]

He's a mouth.

[Sage Toda Nation]

You notice that? He's a mouth breather. Yeah. So the whole game I'm just gonna focus on that.

[Host 2]

That really stupid guy. Cole Palmer. Is that his name?

[Sage Toda Nation]

I love Cole Palmer, but he's not a team. But, like, left off. But he's in Ibiza.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Is he not beef with.

[Host 2]

He made the right choice on the

[Host 3]

COVID of ID magazine, profiled by our boy Robbie Kelly.

[Host 2]

That's right. Do people know your actual name is Sage Nation?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Most people don't. If you know me, then you know. But no. So people think I called my brand Sage's Nation, you know, James's Nation.

[Host 2]

Oh.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Which is pretty name.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Well, Sage Nation sounds like a sick brand name. It is.

[Sage Toda Nation]

You think?

[Host 2]

Yes, but. And then I think it's just people primarily assume that. And then they don't think that it's eponymous, that it's named after yourself.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, I think most people don't know that. I mean, you wouldn't think that, would you?

[Host 2]

No, I mean, we.

[Host 3]

All week.

[Host 2]

All week we've been like, oh, I'm potting with Sage Nation. And like, oh, cool. Like the designer of the brand. And I'm like, yeah, like, what's their name? Like, it's.

[Host 3]

Maybe it's like a. Please say the toad apart. Right? Like.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

How do you introduce yourself to people?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Sage toda Nation. And everyone goes, what? Uber drivers call me Saggy. We got one factory that calls me Saggy.

[Host 2]

Saggy.

[Sage Toda Nation]

But he gets production done on time every season, so it's never corrected.

[Host 2]

Saggy Nation.

[Host 3]

I love that.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. But no, it's sage Toda Nation. So Toda is my real dad's second name. And then Nation is my stepdad. Peter Nation.

[Host 2]

Peter Nation.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Peter Nation.

[Host 2]

That's a bit dirty.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Pete Nation. Yeah. When my mom got together with him, I was like, that's a good name. Yeah, we could, we can work on that.

[Host 3]

We can work with that.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah, you gota. If you ever have a son, you should name him Richard Dick Nation.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Smart, smart.

[Host 2]

No, don't do that.

[Host 3]

That's a free one.

[Host 2]

Why does everyone think. I don't know if you know this, but in our experience, just in talking to people, everyone kind of thinks that Sage Nation is a Japanese brand. And is that the highest compliment that a brand can get these days?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Everyone loves Japanese things, don't they? Right now, I mean, yes.

[Host 3]

Especially fashion.

[Sage Toda Nation]

More than ever. Like, I just did. I just went around some showrooms before I came here and everyone's telling me the, the tagline is, this is Japanese. This fabric's Japanese. This is Japanese. And it's like, okay, so does that just mean it's. It's good then, right? Is that the. So I think it's definitely having a moment. I mean, it's always been a thing. But it's funny for me because we kind of get put into that box sometimes of a Japanese brand. But if you know me, I'm from Milton Keynes. You know Milton Keynes? I don't know if you know Milton Keynes, but it's just a small town outside of London. So it's. But then at the same time, we do draw a lot of inspiration from Japan and it is a part of my DNA, a part of my culture. So it's, you know, it's tough. I'm figuring it. You got to figure it out.

[Host 2]

Do you just let them people assume that?

[Sage Toda Nation]

I let people. I try not to. I actually don't talk that much about the brand. So when buyers come, we kind of show them the lookbook and that's about it. Let the images speak for themselves. I don't like to kind of over intellectualize things. Yeah. I like people just to. If you like it, you like it. If you don't, you don't. And I think there's too much. There's a lot of over intellectualizing clothing right now. Right.

[Host 2]

Or like, oh, the storytelling.

[Sage Toda Nation]

What's the storytelling?

[Host 3]

Gets a bit much. Right.

[Sage Toda Nation]

What are you. What do you mean, the storytelling? I saw an interview with Phoebe Filo that stuck in my head and she Said she doesn't do storytelling, which I design stories.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

I just thought it's so refreshing because in a world where you're made to feel like you have to have a story about every collection, it's not realistic.

[Host 3]

No.

[Sage Toda Nation]

It's not truthful. You're having to do a season every six months, you know, so if there is a story, let's tell the story. But if there's not, you don't force it. Right? We don't force it. I never lie about a story. So if it's some good clothes this season, some nice colors, that's what it. And if that's what it is, and

[Host 3]

if there's no story, you post up in the corner at the showroom, you keep their. Keep your mouth shut, and everyone just assumes you're Japanese, and it's.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, it's cool. I don't.

[Host 3]

That's at all.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. And I said, don't speak English. You know, Save your breath.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host 2]

How so. Okay, well, how would you. How would you define the clothing design? Because, you know, you go on like, people that try to. People that cover Sage Nation, they. They say it's streetwear, it's menswear, it's British, it's Japanese. Like, how would you define it?

[Sage Toda Nation]

People like the word contemporary menswear. So I would say it's contemporary. What even does contemporary mean? Is quite a broad thing, you know, But I like to think the more I do it. We've been doing sage now for six years, and I think at the beginning. Beginning of the brand, there was kind of a mission statement of what it was. It was kind of a exploration of my dual heritage. And we had these three words. We still do have these three words. Perspective, balance, and purpose, which was kind of the core values of the brand. But, you know, as time's gone on, we just try and make good clothes, people.

[Host 3]

That's what's all about.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Where. Yeah. And we put a lot of energy into it, and it's a labor of love. And, you know, every season we refine it, we improve, we learn new things. So, yeah, it's. It's. The more you do something, the harder it is to explain what it is you do. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Do you care when, like, there's a hype beast, like, you know, text over image? It's like Sage Nation is here to save streetwear.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Or something like that. Like. Like, does that get under your skin? Or are you just, like, whatever, Like, Like, Like.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. I mean, it's. Maybe it's clickbait, isn't it sure you want to click on it.

[Host 3]

Engagement bait.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

It's also like you got to communicate. They have to communicate their thing in like seven words or less.

[Host 3]

Two mouth breathers.

[Host 2]

Like Harry K. Exactly.

[Sage Toda Nation]

To mouth breathers. Exactly. They don't understand. So I think also, you know, I think I was saying to you in New York, like, I am actually from a streetwear background. Like, you know, that's what I grew up on. So respect to streetwear. Like, streetwear is where so many of us kind of start, you know, so for me it's not an insult, but at the same time, you'll be. You'll be dumb to think it is streetwear.

[Host 3]

Right.

[Sage Toda Nation]

You know, of course it's not streetwear.

[Host 2]

It's kind of like a catch all term that if everything is streetwear, then like it's. There's no meaning behind it then.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, exactly. And I guess it's like contemporary.

[Host 2]

Honestly, it's contemporary.

[Sage Toda Nation]

I like to think of us as a kind of luxury. Sage is a luxury brand. We charge what we want, what we need to charge. And I think, what is. I was thinking about this the other day. What even is luxury? And I guess like, luxury is time. Oh, time is luxury. And spending a lot of time on your pieces and design and what you do.

[Host 2]

I'm going to ask Chat GPT right now to define cg.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, let's see, let's see.

[Host 2]

Because it's going to draw from everything that's on the Internet. Okay, okay.

[Sage Toda Nation]

This is what I do in all my emails now.

[Host 2]

Okay. Sage Nation is an independent London based menswear, though largely genderless label founded in 2020 by designer Sage Toa Nation. The brand sits at the intersection of Japanese design philosophy and British workwear, military and terrace culture.

[Host 3]

Approved. That's what it says. Approved.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Terrorist culture. Cool. Yeah. No, One Season was about terrorist culture. It was kind of a. We were looking at how to abstract terrorist culture. Like what guys. What guys worn at football, you know,

[Host 2]

like, is that store. That's some sort of like storytelling, like origin inspiration.

[Sage Toda Nation]

That was a moment. So we had one season where it was like, okay, let's. What does it look like if Salary man meets football casuals?

[Host 2]

That's fire.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, so that was the kind of thing.

[Host 2]

So we had the drunkest man of all time.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. It was like we had like chinos and then that's when the box pleat happens. So we did like box pleat trouser with the. The chinos. And then we had vests, like knitted Knitted vests with like double plackets and things like that. So that whole season was about abstracting. Yeah. Like football casuals. And I think the identity behind the fact that, you know, guys caring about or people just caring about how they dress happens in all walks of life, you know, and football casuals is like a great example of that.

[Host 2]

Is there a origin inspiration for SS27, what you're showing currently at Paris in Paris.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Good. SS27 was developing the world of the wardrobe we're building. So it's just building on what we're already doing, bringing in color. We like to kind of take a bit of a step forward with winter, and then the summer kind of echoes winter. So it's kind of the summer version of winter. But then one season we had. I was looking at the rule of five and like, within Japanese food to kind of tell you've have a. You have a good balanced meal, you need to have five colors. Oh. And so it was this idea of, okay, if we have five colors in the collection, that's a kind of. It's a nice rule to kind of work around.

[Host 2]

Or the five.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, I can't remember that. No.

[Host 3]

Wow.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Blue chicken.

[Host 2]

Tender ingredients.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah. Chippies, Natto. Yeah, yeah.

[Host 3]

Papa John over here.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. So I, I like to. We like. I like to work to rules and kind of restrictions because I think, yeah, when there's. When everything's possible, it's difficult.

[Host 3]

Wow.

[Host 2]

Right?

[Host 3]

That's discipline, bro. Self imposed.

[Host 2]

When you have parameters and you have to create within those boundaries, it's like, yeah, it's almost a little more. The structure gives you more freedom versus just like blank slate. What the fuck am I going to do?

[Host 3]

The sky colors in the lines. Within the lines.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. Like if someone says to you, okay, I want to make a cut, you need to make a capsule. You've got two fabrics, these buttons, and these zips. It's quite interesting. You can see what you can do. You know, you can exhaust the kind of possibilities within your. Your restrictions. So that's something which we kind of do at Sage. So we don't everything symmetrical. Nothing's asymmetric. We tend to have five colors max in each season. Make everything in the UK or Japan, bit in Portugal. And then we kind of had these kind of rules that we, we abide to.

[Host 2]

And what, Wait, so what are the five colors of. Of this season?

[Sage Toda Nation]

This season we had reds, green, blue, navy and brown.

[Host 3]

Nice.

[Host 2]

No black.

[Sage Toda Nation]

There's a bit of black's not some carrier.

[Host 3]

Yeah, you're good. You're good. That's a loophole.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

How. How tight were the constrictions when you started in your bedroom in 2020? Because it must have been like, okay, I have this much money. Zero. I have two buttons and, like, just my fucking two hands in my brain.

[Host 3]

And a dream.

[Sage Toda Nation]

And a dream. Yeah.

[Host 2]

And a wet pocket.

[Sage Toda Nation]

A wet pocket with a towel.

[Host 2]

Wet pocket in a dream.

[Host 3]

The Sage Nation story.

[Sage Toda Nation]

The Sage Nation. Yeah. It was. That was. It feels like a long time ago, but I guess it's not even that long ago. 2020. But it was a weird time because it was kind of.

[Host 2]

Why. What was happening in 2020 after Covid,

[Sage Toda Nation]

WHO were just coming out of COVID All right. And. Yeah, yeah, Remember that?

[Host 2]

No, it never happened in America.

[Sage Toda Nation]

So, yeah, it was. Started the brand in the bedroom. We had ordered the stock in there. My partner Yumi, she's. Bless her heart, she was kind of with me from that era. And we had all of the. All the fabric stacked high, all the stock in the box. And then one day she was like, I can't do this. We need to. We need to figure this out, you know? So then we had. I had two interns at the time who were work. We were working in the. Sort of in the living room. We have flatmates as well, so, like, they were getting sick of that. And then the first studio was a storage. Like a big yellow storage.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Sage Toda Nation]

So we were working out the storage container. They didn't have a light in there.

[Host 2]

Did you have a bathroom?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Had a bathroom downstairs? Yeah. Yeah. Lovely bathroom. Remember that? And then every time you open the door, the alarm goes off, so people

[Host 2]

knew you were taking a.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Everyone knew you're taking a damn. And then. Yeah, and then we got to put, like a camping light on, hang it, and then that's where we were rolling. Good old days.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

How long did it take you to get out the trap house?

[Sage Toda Nation]

The trap. It took about a year and a half.

[Host 3]

That's quick, dude.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Yeah, it's pretty good.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Then I acted like it never happened.

[Host 3]

Right.

[Sage Toda Nation]

You know what I mean? I was like, what do you mean? What do you mean there.

[Host 2]

No, we had. We had a bathroom the whole time.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

You gotta switch up and act like you don't know. Nobody don't remember anything.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. So, yeah, that was. That was that time. And then we got. Yeah. Humble beginnings. Yeah. And, you know, it's hard to. I think people feel like you have to have kind of backing or, like, investment, but there is a way to build these things bit by Bit I think if you have the right team, the right people, sort of about people.

[Host 2]

Was there ever a moment, though, in like the early years, a moment or decision where you're like, that almost sunk the business?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Oh, yeah, everyone.

[Host 2]

It's still happening. It's still happening.

[Sage Toda Nation]

You know, you. You don't get production done on time, right, Then the stores might cancel. Then you're like indebted to the factory, so you got to figure that out. But yeah, cash flow is hard when you're running a brand that's. That's the. That's the number one killer of businesses, right? Cash flow. So, yeah, it's. There's ways, though. There's ways to figure it out. There's ways around it.

[Host 2]

Oh, okay.

[Host 3]

Let us know.

[Host 2]

Dude, sounds like a guy rich film. Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. But, you know, most important thing is just to be honest about these things. And kind of a lot of business owners, they just kind of keep it a secret.

[Host 3]

They gatekeep.

[Sage Toda Nation]

They gatekeep it.

[Host 2]

So what's not gatekeep? What has been, what is like the number one, the hardest thing about launching and maintaining a small independent brand besides, like, obviously managing the cash flow and stuff? Like, what is something that maybe isn't that obvious?

[Sage Toda Nation]

I think building a team. Hardest thing, finding the right people to kind of back what it is you're doing and people that you don't need to like, babysit and people that really do actually work hard when you're not watching, you know. So I think building a team takes time. Like, it really is something. Which that's something I've learned a lot at YMC is like, that's been going 30 years now. And there's people that have been in that business for 30 years. So the amount of kind of trust there is and kind of understanding. So, yeah, I think hardest thing is building your network, building the team, building your.

[Host 2]

How do you do that?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Talk to people. Yeah, talk to people.

[Host 3]

Do you work with friends or is that. No, no, because people, I think are split on that.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, I work. We work with friends, but a lot

[Host 3]

of friends before you work together.

[Host 2]

I mean.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Ye. Yeah, but I don't. Not too much. Like, I try and keep that a bit separate. Yeah, but sometimes. Or like people, you know, and you kind of friends. But then you became friends through working together. Right.

[Host 2]

Do you have to sell people on the sage nation dream where you're like, yo, this is like what the whole philosophy and. And creative vision is. So if you want to with this and get on board, like, they have to be Convinced. Right. That there is a. A bigger future here.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. I've never done that, you know, so what do you.

[Host 2]

You just write down a number and be like, done.

[Sage Toda Nation]

I think I don't like to talk that much about what we're doing. I like to just do it.

[Host 3]

Sure. I think let it speak for itself.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. When you come to the office and you see how we are, and I think if you like the clothes, you like what it is we do, I think it goes without saying. And I think a lot of brands, maybe they don't have a lot of. They need to overdo that side because they're little bits.

[Host 2]

Talk too much.

[Sage Toda Nation]

They talk too much. It's crazy. We're silent like a fart. Yeah, for sure.

[Host 2]

Yeah. All right. For the. In the latest collection, back to SS27. Let's get back to the. The good times, not the shitty fire alarm bathroom times. What piece are you most excited about from this season? This season?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Oh, there's. I think the.

[Host 2]

Out.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Even though it's summer, I think the outerwear this season is really special. I think we spend. It's funny because for us, trousers was kind of what grew the most. For us, that's what we're known for. But then outerwear is growing and it's kind of second in place to trousers. So I think the outerwear, that's what I get most excited about. Yeah. Jackets.

[Host 3]

You're a British guy. It comes with the territory, bro.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. So that's the first thing we start with, is some jackets, some trousers, and I think we've got this trench coat. The trench coat this season is kind of our take, the sage take on a. On a modern day trench. And I think. I think we've done a good job of it. I think it's something that people can all wear and I think it's a beautiful piece. So we've got that. We've got the Gigi jacket. The kind of evolution of the Gigi jacket, which was a style we've had from the beginning, like Gigi for granddad. So it was like a base off of the kind of jacket my granddad used to wear. So I think that we're kind of carrying that through and we've done it in a really, like, Harrington. Harrington, old school Harrington style with the Takashi with the Gigi jacket lines on. And I think it's a nice evolution.

[Host 2]

We're doing big pants this season.

[Sage Toda Nation]

We're moving away from that.

[Host 3]

Really?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We still got that in the collection, but it's something which We're. It's always going to be there. It's always part of the DNA. But I think generally it's. It just doesn't feel as relevant to me.

[Host 3]

It's a saturate, like, over saturation, now that everyone's doing that.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. And I'm. I'm really like. I feel like skinny jeans to me are quite refreshing.

[Host 2]

You're gonna be doing skinny jeans?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

How skinny?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. Oh, God, yeah. No, but also, like, shorts.

[Host 2]

Can't wait to wear those next summer in Paris.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Short shorts. Short shorts. Nice. Yeah. Short, like that. Boxes.

[Host 3]

Okay.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

That's a vibe.

[Sage Toda Nation]

I'm. I'm kind of over. Long shorts.

[Host 2]

Chin slappers. Are the shin slappers and culottes as prevalent in London as they are in New York and Paris? Because here they're just.

[Sage Toda Nation]

I think they might be big, like, even crazier in London.

[Host 3]

It's a soho kid uniform.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. The sort of like jaw thing, but,

[Host 2]

like, down to the. Just two inches above the ankle.

[Sage Toda Nation]

I guess it depends on how short you are as well. That's true. The short is a skill issue based on your height. I mean, we got some customers. The shorts are like. They look like the trousers on it.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

When it comes to pants, when it comes to trends like that, how much does that inform, like, your designs? Do you. Do you ignore it? Can you not help but pay attention? Like, where are you at with that?

[Sage Toda Nation]

I wear. I don't really think of it as trends. I don't really look at trends. I guess what it. I look at a lot of stuff. I observe a lot of. I'm a big people watcher. I look at kind of what's going on in the street, and I think once my eyes get tired of seeing something too many times, you naturally just want to move on from it. And I think the. The whole wide trouser thing felt so relevant for us at the time, and we really got good at that silhouette. But I think now it's about. Just doesn't feel as relevant right now. Yeah. Just doesn't look as good.

[Host 3]

That's fair.

[Host 2]

Are the big trousers still your bestseller?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, the box pleat is still number one. We have. There's kind of like the Sage nation customer, and then there's the box pleat customer. Oh, wow.

[Host 3]

And they're completely different. Besides the same pants.

[Sage Toda Nation]

They may be in the same world, but it's. There's definitely a guy that loves that trouser and that trousers. Like, you know, it's dear to my heart because that was the first trouser I did when I was at when I started the brand and it ended up becoming the bestseller, which is kind of weird.

[Host 2]

Literally these trousers got you out the trap.

[Host 3]

Literally they're your oldest design. And that was the come up.

[Sage Toda Nation]

That was the come up, that trouser.

[Host 2]

So we got one.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 3]

Flip the pack on the box pleats.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. It was the worst pattern because I did the pattern myself. I didn't know what I was doing. I think I've still got the pictures of the 12. Like when I first did it, really, the first box pleats, they had no fly or buttons because that was, you know, that was.

[Host 2]

You couldn't afford that. You couldn't afford that.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. It's money.

[Host 3]

So tooling we don't need.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. So the o. The sort of og first customers, they know who they are. Have a box pleat without fly.

[Host 2]

Not a fly, just elastic waste, just elastic waist.

[Sage Toda Nation]

So when they go toilet. Yeah.

[Host 3]

Was it really because the finishings were too expensive?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, it was, yeah.

[Host 2]

Because I mean cut it to cut in everything. That's more money.

[Sage Toda Nation]

The button. Yeah. I didn't know what. I didn't know it was gonna sell. Like I was doing a trouser and

[Host 3]

like this pattern sucks. I did it myself.

[Sage Toda Nation]

I'm like, why does it need to fly? We're just shooting it, you know, as long as it shoots well. Wow mentality. So. So those first trousers don't have the fly. So that's how you know you've got the first box pleats. And then from that kind of first capsule that was. I got hit up by my Japanese distributor, a guy called Takasan who is. He runs his company called Elight. So he contacted me over Instagram and said, we would love to sell your collection in Japan. And I didn't even know what that meant. I was like, what do you mean? Like you're going to buy some. Some stuff and then sell it on. Right. And so he kind of explained that whole process. And then we sent out the first samples to Japan, did the first showroom and then that's how we picked up the first accounts. And then that's how the bull.

[Host 2]

Who's your first big account in Japan?

[Host 3]

Throw gang. You already know it's a hot boy summer and we're all about staying flying. Yes. That has to do with the clothes you wear, but it also applies to your accessories.

[Host 2]

I love gold. Yep, that's an awesome Powers gold member reference. Shout out all you hep cats. And knowing what the fuck I'M talking about. You know, my neck and wrist stay heavy all summer long even though I'm on that GLD one. Larry.

[Host 3]

Yeah, Gu. Partnering up with GLD to bring you some of the best jewelry in the game. GLD offers every price point from entry level 18k plated gold all the way up to solid gold and natural diamonds. You can find anything that you're looking for at any price point. You can even fully create customized pieces. That's right, guys. GLD is your one stop shop for all your hot boy accessories. Work hard and change the game. For a limited time only new customers are getting an insane deal. Use code throwing fits to get fit. 40% off at gld.com that's 40% off with code [e-mail] after you purchase they will ask you where you heard about them. Please guys, support our show and tell them that the only podcast that matters sent you.

[Sage Toda Nation]

It was a good question. I mean we picked up about 15 accounts from the first.

[Host 3]

Damn.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Wow. Yeah, so when I got the order in, I was like, oh my God,

[Host 3]

how do I make all.

[Host 2]

Thank God I didn't add a fly to this.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was, yeah. So then from then, that was, that was kind of the first season. And then Greg, my agent now at dmsr, Greg the Egg, I kind of knew of him. I was working retail at the time and I was just pestering him to kind of be in the showroom because, literally pestering him. I think I pestered him for six months saying, you know, let's, let's work together. And it wasn't quite ready, it wasn't quite, the collection wasn't quite big enough at the time. And then the next season it was. So then we, we've been on a journey ever since with, and I'm still work with both of those partners. And then that's how we, that's how we run wholesale at the moment.

[Host 2]

Greg's a, Greg's a kingmaker. Like if you're in a showroom, like you're pretty, you're, you're on your way. You're on your way.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

But also you're like, Yo, Greg, 15 accounts in Japan. Yeah. He must be like, oh, the sign,

[Sage Toda Nation]

the pressure was real.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Is Japan, are you, is Japan your biggest market or is it uk?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Not at the moment. So UK is kind of the biggest market for us right now. But the States are also growing. Like it's, it's another big market. And then Japan is, is, is still big, but with the exchange rate.

[Host 3]

Yeah, true.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Quite tough at the moment. So I think we're having a little bit of a slowdown over there. Yeah.

[Host 2]

What. Okay. The big pants are your best seller. What's your worst seller? What sucks? What stinks?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Good question. What stinks?

[Host 3]

What's the ugly duckling?

[Sage Toda Nation]

It's got to be a knitwear this season. Oh, yeah. I think that's gonna struggle. I think it's great knitwear, but it's just summer.

[Host 3]

Summer's always like linen, cotton blend or

[Sage Toda Nation]

like it's all cotton and linen blends. Yeah. We got like a really sheer V neck, kind of smedly, kind of really fine gauge knit, which. Beautiful. But it's just. It's a tough market.

[Host 2]

That's just fall. That's just spring and fall.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But I think for us, T shirts has never been a thing, which for a lot of brands it is. We kind of gave up on it. I mean, we do sell. We've got a couple of T shirts that we do sell. But I guess you. You wouldn't come to. You don't think of us as a brand that does.

[Host 2]

I was gonna say it's a great point.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Not really.

[Sage Toda Nation]

We don't do anything if we're.

[Host 2]

If, like, there's enough T shirt brands out there. We're gonna focus on what we do best.

[Sage Toda Nation]

We focus on what we do. We don't. I'm quite a purist. Like, I don't. We don't really use any print. We don't do any graphics. So I think that lends itself to T shirts.

[Host 3]

It's weird. They don't do graphics because everyone calls you a hypebeast brand on Instagram.

[Sage Toda Nation]

I know. Everyone says we're streetwear and you.

[Host 3]

And you're like, never. Like, is it a never say never thing? You're like, we're never going to do graphics. Like, never.

[Sage Toda Nation]

I think only through collaboration.

[Host 3]

Okay.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, I don't think we'll ever do it.

[Host 2]

How sheer is this shirt? Like how.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. Is. You can see the nips. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Sage Toda Nation]

I'm copping that the nips are there. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Nippy. Paris Fashion Week. Okay, wait, Lawrence mentioned or you mentioned the collabs. Do you have a dream collaboration you'd love to make happen one day with Sage?

[Sage Toda Nation]

I think we've got a few collaborations coming out next year.

[Host 2]

And who have you collabed with so far?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Basically no one. Oh, you didn't do.

[Host 2]

You didn't do a footwork club?

[Sage Toda Nation]

We did. That was ymc, but we did A small. We did a small shoe with Office Scene Creative.

[Host 2]

That's something.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Italian brand. That was great. But it was more of a kind of like the curved big toe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We were getting a lot of hate for that.

[Host 3]

It was like a white label deal.

[Host 2]

Why? That was a rock.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. I was kind of happy when I saw that. It was the first time we saw some real.

[Host 3]

Oh, really?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. Clown. Like fucking clown shoes and like, the

[Host 3]

fucking mad thing in it.

[Sage Toda Nation]

What are those?

[Host 2]

Clown. Takes a clown to no one.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, I was enjoying it. It was nice. It was nice to get a bit of.

[Host 2]

That was really important. That was really the first time you ever got a negative reaction from, like, just ig audience.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, because I guess we're not that in the spotlight. Like, we never really get in. We're not one of those brands that's getting posted up on hypebeast every day.

[Host 3]

Sure.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Right. So that was like, a complex post. There was some mad comments on there, but it was. It was kind of funny. And I thought, you know what? This is what it feels like to have a product that people really love, love or hate.

[Host 3]

It's like a thinking man's piece of footwear.

[Host 2]

I think these are fire. Four months ago. So good. Wait, sure this isn't it?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Oh, this is the office. You got to go to the complex one.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Oh, but was it complex or high hard copy?

[Host 3]

Beautiful.

[Host 2]

Sam commented on his own account. Unreal them. I mean, best the bit. Thanks. Oh, I don't know who that is, but love, these are pretty solid.

[Host 3]

Shout out to the hard copy army.

[Sage Toda Nation]

There's one point.

[Host 2]

All the. All the bad comments get down, get

[Sage Toda Nation]

deleted, get hidden real quick. Yeah, but, yeah, that was kind of. We worked with them.

[Host 2]

Crusty the Clown Ashes.

[Host 3]

Yeah, there you go.

[Host 2]

Honk, honk.

[Host 3]

Oh, here goes your shoes, madam.

[Host 2]

I mean, clown shoes. They're terrifying.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

All right.

[Host 2]

Pretty bad.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Kind of cool.

[Host 2]

Not great.

[Host 3]

That's one note. Hate. Just clown. Okay.

[Sage Toda Nation]

She's sold out. Yeah. So.

[Host 3]

So what did Jalen Brunson say?

[Host 2]

A lot of people gonna talk a lot of. But if you're wrong, you don't got

[Host 3]

to say too, they sold out. That means Sage is the dean of Clown College. Congratulations. You run this.

[Host 2]

So do you have a dream collab? I don't know if you want to reveal any clubs you got coming up or, like, maybe manifest by putting your dream partner out there.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, I would. I actually can't because it's happening.

[Host 3]

They're happening.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, I know. I'm normally so, like, you're collaborating with Crusty the Clown.

[Host 3]

Congratulations.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yes, it's happening. Yeah.

[Host 3]

Proper.

[Sage Toda Nation]

We've. We've got three collaborations coming out next year, which are genuinely, like, my dream collaborations. Can you give us a little hint?

[Host 3]

Like, British heritage.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah. So what I'll say is men one footwear, which is kind of the. What you think of as British leather shoes. Okay. It's the king of that.

[Host 3]

I. I know. That is.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Okay. Very cool. The what you think of, you know, what you associate with that. Then we've got what you would associate with Japanese outdoors.

[Host 3]

Okay.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Who I think are the best of the best. One of the best. And then we've got.

[Host 2]

Damn, that's like peak collab, bro.

[Host 3]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, too.

[Sage Toda Nation]

And then we've got Take them to

[Host 3]

Church on the shoes, too, dude.

[Sage Toda Nation]

We've got what you think of as kind of football casuals. London.

[Host 3]

Okay.

[Sage Toda Nation]

British. British mods.

[Host 2]

Okay. Bro, why don't you just, like, umbrella? What?

[Sage Toda Nation]

No, no, no, no.

[Host 2]

Okay. All right.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Definitely not. No, he's Umbrella. But, yeah, those free collaborations. So two clothing, one, one, six on one year.

[Host 3]

Crazy.

[Sage Toda Nation]

It's gonna be over the course of time. Like, two years. Yeah. So we're really happy with that. So we've not really done any big collaborations by the.

[Host 2]

So is that, like the. In. When. When is that, like, the industry kind of taking notice of, like, the position that you have where it's like, yo, we want to align ourselves with, like, the next. With the current, like, the coolest next up, a little under the radar? Or is it, like. And. And does that flatter you? Or is it. I don't know if it's cynicism, but it's like, okay, yeah, that just, you know, the big dogs want to. Just want to dole out a bag to be with, like, the cool kids.

[Sage Toda Nation]

I think a lot of those brands. Kind of. A lot of these brands know what you're doing, right? They're kind of watching. And I think there's a time. There's a. There's a right time for these things, and we've never. I've always known that. I've always been aware of the fact that if someone wants to make something happen, they're gonna make it happen. So there's no point in asking about. For these things and kind of reaching out to.

[Host 3]

Oh, these are inbound requests from the big dogs.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. Like, I think there was. There was a relationship there, and it was kind of just waiting until we had kind of done enough seasons shown the kind of consistency. So, yeah, I think these things kind of come at the right time, hopefully. And we're super blessed to be working with these amazing brands and I'm hoping it's just going to continue. And these partnerships are quite, they're not just a one off thing, you know, it's going to be an ongoing thing. So that from, that to me is really important and there's only so much for me, it's about working with the brands that are the best at what they do. Yeah. Because for sure you want to tap

[Host 2]

into that and look, it's, it's great that they're working with you instead of just jacking your. But have you seen bigger brands or even like fast fashion brands? Just copy Sage Nation?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah, a little bit. Yeah. Like the box pleats, we've seen it. But people, you know, people got to do what they've got to do, like.

[Host 3]

Oh, you're cool with that?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, I'm cool. I mean, you're flattered. As long as you know what the original thing you know what is from, then it's a big if. Yeah, I think it's a, it's a compliment, right?

[Host 2]

It's, it's. What is this? Imitation is the best form of flattery.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah, but I do.

[Host 2]

But also.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Come on, come on. Exactly. Yeah.

[Host 3]

The fast fashion is like weak because there's like, there is a kid who like, he doesn't know the origin and he just sees the cheapest, most readily available thing.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

And he doesn't know.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, look, it's, it's always if you're doing something good and it's. People like it, it's going to happen, isn't it? Yeah.

[Host 2]

Is it from, is it from the fast fashion world? Is it kind of more from your contemporaries?

[Sage Toda Nation]

We've had both. We've had a bit of like, we've had fast fashion, we've had big brands that I respect a lot doing it. But also I know how with these big brands it's like they've got massive design teams. Is someone they might not even know, some intern that's kind of showed them something, they don't know where it's from. I don't think with that, that specific brand I'm thinking of, I don't think it's definitely not an intentional thing.

[Host 3]

Okay.

[Sage Toda Nation]

But there's some brands that they've definite it. But it's gonna happen.

[Host 2]

Right. It's like charges like how Connie invented leather joggers at Fen.

[Sage Toda Nation]

You gotta move. Yeah, exactly. But I think there's. There's a lot of people as well that send me stuff thinking that, you know, this guy's. This person's catted it. But it's like, it's just a jacket, you know, I'm not the one to invest a parking, mate, you know. Yeah. Like, we had a Takeshi coat with these lines, but there was a coat that was similar.

[Host 2]

But, yeah, also there's, like, a pretty finite number of, like, things you can do to a jacket.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. There's only so much you can do. And I don't think there's a lot that we do that is crazily innovative. We're not one of those brands, but with some things, like the box pleat, that really is our thing.

[Host 3]

We own the silhouette.

[Sage Toda Nation]

The silhouette of that. So that's something that I definitely. Yeah, that's definitely a thing.

[Host 2]

But I want to talk about this other super exciting, you know, chapter of your career that's really only just begun. How did you become the creative director of ymc?

[Sage Toda Nation]

So, yeah, YMC came into my life. So it was. It was two and a half years ago. I've been there now. So we were connected via a friend of mine called a Video, who used to work there as a womenswear designer. And then she connected me and the owner, Jimmy, the CEO, and so she connected us. She said we should meet in Paris, get together. So I didn't really know what it was about at all. Didn't know anything about what we were meeting about, but I went to the showroom, we took me out the back, and then we. We had just a conversation about where they were at, because the brand. I don't know if you know much about the brand, but it was started by Jimmy and Fraser. Yeah, they were kind of partners in the. In the business, and Fraser was the creative side and Jimmy was a business. But then Fraser sadly passed away about three and a half years ago. So it was a devastating thing for the brand because, you know, they were the ones who started it. So Jimmy was left with this decision to kind of. He wanted to continue. He still had so much energy for it. So they needed to replace. Not replace, but, you know.

[Host 2]

Yeah, a creative captain.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

And so it was this. I didn't know about any of this. Turned up to the meeting. Jimmy's a very transparent guy, is a proper OG in the fashion game. He's been doing it a long time.

[Host 2]

Doing it for 30 years. You were doing it correctly.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, I mean, he's been in the industry probably over 35 years. Because there was another brand before that that he did. And then he started ymc. So he kind of laid. Lays all of his cars on the table and just kind of told me where he's at. And he said all he's been left with was because Fraser was designing right up until he passed. So all he showed me was his. The mood board that he got left with.

[Host 3]

Oh, wow.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. And he was like, this is what I've been left with. Let's continue the journey, you know, and

[Host 3]

that's like, heavy, but also like one opportunity.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Massive opportunity and a massive respect. And the mood board was just full of cowboys. It was just loads. It's just loads of pictures of cowboys. So I was like, okay, you know, I had to giddy up. I was not expecting that. And then went away from that conversation. And then that was. I did my research into. I mean, I've always known ymc. Like, it's part of the kind of land. London landscape of fashion.

[Host 2]

Could you maybe like, for. For. Because it's still slightly under the radar in America, I think. Can you. You, like, break down, like, the history and. And the pedigree of this legendary brand that again, is like such a part. Such an integral part of like, the. The British Menswear Foundation. So much so in America yet.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. I mean, YMC is started in 95, 1995. And I think it was at a time when London fashion was really, like, pushing the boundaries of fashion and like, really pioneering the global landscape of fashion. And there was a lot of great brands at the time that kind of fizzled out or not going anymore. And YMC was one of those brands that's kept going and it's kind of evolved into this brand that is for. It's very democratic. It's for a lot of different. A lot of different age groups. We have a lot of grandparents buying it. We have a lot of teenagers and my. So I kind of delved into the archive and in the 90s, the brown was so. Kind of had a very different feel to the YMC that I. When I joined. And it was all these images from, like, old arena, like old ID magazine. The face and it just boxes upon boxes of old imagery of the brand. So I was just digging through that, and for me, it was so inspiring because that is kind of the. The esthetic and the kind of language at the time was very much what I'm into now.

[Host 2]

I mean, you've posted some of these photographs and these scans, and it really does look like it could be some Shit. That is, like, on fire right now. Yeah, yeah, like. Like, so, like, 96, 97.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. It feels so relevant now. And it was always styled next to a Helmut Lang, a Joe Sander. It was in a very different space. And I guess as time goes on, things evolve, change. But there was, you know. Yeah, there was a lot of great brands at that time, like Catherine Hamner.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Vex Generation. Those guys are starting back up again next.

[Host 3]

That just proves the relevancy that we're talking.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. Like, Maharishi still going, amazing brand. So. Yeah. What was I talking about? So.

[Host 2]

So when you. So when you start to educate yourself on the history and this opportunity, like, what is. Was that scary? Were you excited? Like, that's a big leap.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess, like, what. What hit me was a lot of my friends who collect vintage. They have really great vintage stores and they're. They've got loads of old YMC stuff that they're collecting. And some of the old stuff, when I saw it in person, I was like, wow, this is. You know, they're collecting. Collecting it in the same regard as the Armani stuff. Right. Like, so for me, it was. It was pressure. But at the same time, I've always done sage, so I've never really had a proper job in fashion. You know, this is like the first job. It was retail before that.

[Host 3]

Crazy first job.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. So for me, it was like, I've always had the attitude of, let's just. I never thought I would even get to this point anyway, you know, regardless. So we're here.

[Host 3]

House money.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. So let's make it work. So. And we ball. Yeah, exactly. So it's. It's one of those. And then the team, they're so welcoming. And so the culture behind the brand is amazing.

[Host 2]

I mean, you talked about putting together a good team. People have been there for 30 years, and the machine's still running well oiled.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

You got the team.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. And Jimmy, like, Jimmy, the owner, he's got so much energy for it still, and he's so positive. He's such a positive person. So I think that really, like, what was the first.

[Host 2]

What was the first, like, challenge or task you gave yourself when you got into the door? Were you, like, not necessarily, like, overhauling anything? But what. What was the first thing that you wanted to accomplish?

[Sage Toda Nation]

The first thing we did, actually, the first kind of week was we. We took over the shop. One of the shop. We got two stores in London, so we closed one of the shops and we just did a whole Week of just looking at all of the styles. So then we cut a load of stuff that I felt it wasn't in the direction.

[Host 3]

Addition by subtraction.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So then we did that and then. But, you know, I was watching this interview the other day and they were saying, what was it? Was that Jeff Bezos or someone like that. And they were saying they've got a rule where no one's allowed to. Any new employee is not allowed to do anything for the first six months. Like you're not allowed to actually make a decision for the first six months. Which I thought was really smart because

[Host 2]

I sit back and absorb like a sponge.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Absorb it. And then once you hit six months, you can make some lock in, like,

[Host 2]

sorry, guys, I can't make decision. I'm still new here.

[Host 3]

Bezos Bezos said that I'm chilling for six months, actually, so I'm just going to hang out and vacation cash and paychecks.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah. So I think that's a good rule because I guess there's that always that pressure that you've got to change things for the sake of changing things. Right. Well, maybe you don't need to. So we went through all of that strip, strip some things back and then started working on the collection straight away, first season. And then since then we've just been. It's four seasons a year, so it's a lot. Because we do four at ymc, two at Sage, and then it's all the collaborations as well.

[Host 3]

It's a lot.

[Host 2]

You needed that grease vacay.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, I needed it.

[Host 2]

And how do you like, have you. Maybe it's still an ongoing process. Like, how do you go about balancing, you know, understanding and respecting the heritage and the DNA of the brand, while you also want to like, imprint your own creative sageness onto the label.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yes, I think it's a lot about, you know, YMC is its own thing. It's got its own history, its own DNA. So a lot of the. What I was doing at the beginning was thinking about what even is ymc, like looking quite introspectively at the brand itself and not looking to. Not thinking too much about anything else and just looking at the actual clothes and the actual shapes and the fabrications and the. The sort of. For me, like, I think the beginning of the brand is when it's most pure. And so it was really trying to find what that was again. And I think it was. It's easy because that Sages just say, like, it's just what I want to do. You Is me. Yeah. Whereas at ymc, I'm thinking a lot more about different things. You know, you've got. We got a customer that buys YMC that I might not know as well as I should. Right. You know, whereas at Sage, I feel like I understand the customer fully.

[Host 2]

And who. What do you know about the YMC customer? Who is that guy? Because you kind of said it's a little bit of everybody.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Grandparents, teenagers, you know, But I think it's a lot of cool dads.

[Host 3]

Okay.

[Sage Toda Nation]

A lot of cool dad.

[Host 3]

Love a cool dad.

[Sage Toda Nation]

A lot of cool mums.

[Host 3]

Okay. Same.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. And then I guess we've had some cool grandparents.

[Host 2]

Is it women's wear? They do.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. So Women's Wear is 50, the brand, which a lot of people don't know. So that's. That's something which. How. Has been a new. It's been a new challenge. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, we do a bit of women's wear at Sage, and Sage is worn by a lot of women as well. But yeah, women's wears its whole thing, isn't it? You know what.

[Host 2]

Yeah. What took the most getting used to working now that you have, you go from, like your bedroom, the trap house, the fire alarm bathroom. You know, a team, a few interns, like a small team. Now you have this like massive. Not massive, but relatively speaking.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Pretty big institutional British brand. Like, what took the most getting used to in terms of just like having the. The resources at your disposal?

[Sage Toda Nation]

I think meetings. Having meetings, you know, email meetings. Yeah, Right. Like, let's have a meeting. And it's like, what the is a meeting? Let me just talk about it now. What do we need to say?

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

And then some people, they want to have. Should we meet before the meeting?

[Host 3]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, the pre. Meat the worst.

[Sage Toda Nation]

And I'm like, okay, so, you know, at Sage, it's like. It's more just WhatsApp.

[Host 3]

Right?

[Sage Toda Nation]

It's like a WhatsApp. It's a voice note. Yeah. We need to add this into the. But I think that was that sort of. I mean, YMC is not corporate, but obviously it's bigger team than what I'm used to. And I fucked up. Yeah, yeah. It's a little bit buttoned up, so a little bit more profess. So that. And I think also understanding that my job at YMC and my job at any brand and at Sage as well, is I have to care about the brand. I have to think about the brand as a whole, and a lot of people's job is to think about One aspect of a brand.

[Host 3]

Sure.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Whereas the only person there to think about the whole thing is me. You know, so just being aware of like this, you know, this person might want this and this person might want this, but maybe that's not right for the overall picture.

[Host 3]

So within you, are there like two different designers at this point?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Where at stage.

[Host 3]

Yeah, just like, like internally now, are you like. I'm like a different guy when I'm like, put on my designer hat for, you know, Sage Nation. And then when I put on my CD hat for ymc. Like a different, slightly.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Slightly different mentality. Yeah. Because at ymc, Jimmy's looking, you know, he's looks up, he looks after the business. He's looking after all of that stuff that I do at Sage. And at Sage, I need to think about, you know, paying people taxes, rent, business rates, all of that stuff. But I guess at. Why. Yeah, my job at YMC is to think more about how. How we're communicating how things look visually, how things feel. Which is. Which is hard because the business side is so ingrained.

[Host 3]

Right.

[Sage Toda Nation]

But that's also important as well. So it's always a balance of E commerce and creative.

[Host 2]

Has it felt nice to let go a little bit at the new gig?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah, it has. Is good. But then I also think it's so important to. I need to stay down, you know, stay grounded and think about price point and think about.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Sage Toda Nation]

You know, can't be one of these

[Host 2]

highfalutin CDs that's just like not based in reality. You still. At the end of the day, you still gotta sell clothes.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Right. And. Exactly. And these clothes pay for all of these people's lives.

[Host 3]

A lot of responsibility.

[Sage Toda Nation]

You know, there's a lot of people in the office with kids. Two kids, three.

[Host 2]

Oh, my God. That's too much. That's too much responsibility to think about.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

So.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, sometimes. Yeah. So it's important. You got to think about these things. And then with Sage, it's something which I also have to think about. And it's so important.

[Host 2]

If I don't design a bestseller, these children are going to have breakfast beans.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. Next year is going to eat.

[Host 3]

Yeah. For real.

[Host 2]

Do you own and where? Because right today it's pretty 5050. Do you own and wear more Sage Nation or YMC?

[Sage Toda Nation]

I think, yeah, more. I think more Sage. But I've got some YMC bits that I wear to death. Like this shirt I wear to death. Generally more white sage. Because obviously I've done it right so long now. And I just pick up.

[Host 3]

You have more. You got more free over the years.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah. I can't just be picking out samples at ymc.

[Host 3]

Or maybe you can. I mean, you are the creative director.

[Host 2]

Well, they have like, an actual, like, showroom manager that's like, hey, yeah, yeah. Stop stealing samples.

[Host 3]

Someone could actually say no to you over there. You're used to that.

[Host 2]

I could save you. My name's on the label, bitch.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

Take what I want.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Exactly that. So I think more sage. For a long time with Sage, I didn't like wearing it because I felt like I couldn't switch off from work.

[Host 3]

Oh.

[Sage Toda Nation]

But now I've grown out of that.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

I'm a big boy now. Yeah, yeah.

[Host 3]

We paid for the sample. Someone's got to wear these things.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

Do you have the aspirations or like, I don't know, maybe like whispers in the back your head of one day designing for, like, a major fashion house. Like, I don't know, like a Burberry or something?

[Host 3]

Yeah, they suck right now. They can use you, bro.

[Host 2]

They need something.

[Host 3]

I said it. My words.

[Sage Toda Nation]

I would. I would love to. I would always be up for the conversation.

[Host 3]

Okay.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Never say. Never say never. I'm never gonna, you know, but I think for me, I'm just focusing on what I've got on my plate right

[Host 2]

now, which is a lot.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, my. The brand's doing, you know, Sage is doing so well, so I think it's a shame to think too far ahead. Let's just focus.

[Host 2]

Do you ever feel burnout?

[Sage Toda Nation]

No, I have a good work life balance now.

[Host 2]

What do you do?

[Host 3]

What do you do to Greece, right?

[Sage Toda Nation]

I eat a lot. Yeah. I love food.

[Host 2]

You cook or you eat?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Cook a lot? Yeah, I cook a lot.

[Host 3]

What's your number one dish on the sticks? What are you making? If you had us over for dinner?

[Sage Toda Nation]

I do like, a good sausage pasta.

[Host 3]

Okay.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. And then like, a lot of Japanese food. I do a lot of just simple, like fish and rice and miso soup and what else? I do. Yeah, all sorts. But I think my. Yeah, my girlfriend cooks well. Eat a lot of that food.

[Host 2]

What are your favorite restaurants in London right now?

[Host 3]

What's on the list?

[Sage Toda Nation]

That's a good question. You need to plug, plug some people here. My. My friend Ramsay, he runs a great.

[Host 3]

Gordon.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, Gordon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gordo. Yeah, yeah. Do you know him? Yeah, no, different Ramsay.

[Host 1]

He.

[Sage Toda Nation]

He runs a bar called Space Talk. Have you heard of it?

[Host 2]

No.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Great bar.

[Host 3]

Put on the list.

[Sage Toda Nation]

So he's got another Spot. He's opening a new spot. It's amazing. Really well executed bar. And they do. They serve some food there and then that's kind of a great. That's a great spot. And then I like a lot of Turkish joints. Like I go to.

[Host 3]

Let's go, baby.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Spot called E Mono. Cheap, cheerful, good food. Then where else? Chinatown. Always can't miss Shaolong Bao.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Soup dumpling. Like good soup dumpling.

[Host 3]

That's the first stop off the plane in any city for me, bro. Straight to China.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, like soup dumplings.

[Host 3]

Come on, bro. There's the Pope in the woods. Wait.

[Sage Toda Nation]

So good. I. I struggle with Japanese food in London though. There's not many good Japanese. Yeah, I can't. I can't really. No shade, but I can't name you any good Japanese restaurants. Yeah.

[Host 3]

Okay, so someone should go over there and.

[Host 2]

Because everyone's like, oh, this fish is raw, man. Deep fry it. It's not fish and chips sent back to the kitchen.

[Host 3]

Is this mate?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

What is a men's in London? All right, so the Japanese food sucks there.

[Host 3]

Great.

[Host 2]

What does a men's fashion victim look like in London Right now? We talk about like the big shorts.

[Host 3]

Yeah. And your people watchers, which is like a.

[Host 2]

A shit.

[Host 3]

A.

[Host 2]

A sheep that's getting dressed off Instagram.

[Host 3]

I feel like I. I gotta be

[Sage Toda Nation]

careful what I say because a lot of my friends are like these, you know?

[Host 3]

Oh, really? God damn, dude. Get some new friends, bro.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, for real.

[Host 3]

Put them on a float team for Sage or ymc. Dude,

[Sage Toda Nation]

don't know.

[Host 3]

A lot of arcterics. Beanies. Yeah, the beanie.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, but they're kind of done now. Oh, yeah, well, they were done.

[Host 3]

I feel like they were still cracking

[Sage Toda Nation]

over across the pond. All right, let me, let me, let

[Host 2]

me phrase a different way. What are you sick of seeing in menswear right now?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Right? I thought about this a bit on the way here because I knew you're going to ask this, but I think so. Caps. Caps, Right. What would you call your cap? Like, what kind of cap?

[Host 3]

This is a baseball cap.

[Sage Toda Nation]

I'm cool with baseball caps. I like baseball caps. What would you call the other caps? Like a snapback?

[Host 2]

Oh, oh, there's like a pre distressed dad hat. Trucker.

[Host 3]

Oh, trucker big crown.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like all my best friends, trucker hat every day.

[Host 2]

Really?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Like chrome?

[Host 2]

No. Chrome. Truckers.

[Sage Toda Nation]

No, like different, like, like ironic vintage

[Host 2]

ones or like contemporary?

[Sage Toda Nation]

A bit of both. Okay, both. But I just. It's just not my thing. It's not my thing.

[Host 3]

They're big, bigger hats.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. It just doesn't crown.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. But I'm gonna. They're gonna hate me because it's like. It's what everyone wears around me.

[Host 2]

I think it makes them feel taller.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, maybe that might be it.

[Host 3]

Like psycho, like a psychological thing.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. Yeah, maybe.

[Host 2]

Is there anything in what's. What is happening in Manzo right now that's like actually giving you some, like, hope, like, optimism for where it's headed?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Skinny jeans.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

Damn, dude, you're really on this.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Clothes that aren't overly complicated, overly explained. I think what else is good right now? I like. I think there's a lot of great brands coming out of London.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

What are some, like, small brands that are like maybe pushing the needle or pushing envelope that maybe, you know, light a fire under your ass to like, keep yourself innovating and progressing.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. There's so much. There's so many. I mean, you've got like the guys in the showroom at dmsr. Like, I know you've done a young. Yeah.

[Host 1]

One.

[Sage Toda Nation]

You got Nick Daly.

[Host 3]

Sure.

[Sage Toda Nation]

He's been on the show. You got Saeed. These are all.

[Host 2]

Wait, what the fuck? Are we just a mouthpiece for dmsr?

[Host 3]

Yeah. Cut the check. Greg. What the fuck, bro? Come on. They were part of the marketing strategy. We didn't even know.

[Host 2]

Greg. Greg didn't even buy me a pint at the. At the Fiddler's Elbow in Florence.

[Sage Toda Nation]

He owes you a couple pints.

[Host 2]

Fiddlers? The Diddlers.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. And then you've got. I've got some friend like J. LA we're good friends. Friends with those guys.

[Host 2]

Oh, is that like J. L?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

They do some great stuff.

[Host 2]

Their loafers are the like the. I don't know how to describe it. You don't? They're new.

[Sage Toda Nation]

They're kind of like wraparound leather shoe. Yeah. They're sick. Yeah, they. They're always kidding it. They've always been.

[Host 2]

And they've kind of moved from like, correct me if I'm wrong, but they were more kind of like solidly gorp. And then they kind of became like Post Corp core, where it's like still a lot of utilitarian and functional fabrics, but in like a much more wearable everyday.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Garments.

[Sage Toda Nation]

I think that they're evolving for sure. And I think a lot of those brands are. Those techy brands are evolving. And what we're seeing is a lot of this. More techy stores are kind of coming to us now and being like you know we're shifting, right?

[Host 2]

Oh, nice.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

How we're looking at things. We want more of this kind of. Of everyday archetypes of clothing, like coats, shirts.

[Host 3]

Right, right, right.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Old school.

[Host 3]

Well, that corp customer who was a hype piece before is like growing up. Right. So, like, stores need to reflect that maturation and taste.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, it's. It's probably, it's. It's that as well.

[Host 2]

The Sage Nation have like some sort of not gorpa, like, like functionality kind of in its DNA.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, we, we definitely had an aspect of that at the early doors and we still, we still have it. Like, we use a lot of Ventil esque fabrics. It's not Ventil. It's actually what I think is better than Ventil. It's more like it's. I mean, this is it. This is fully.

[Host 2]

Oh, these are nice. That's like a nice summer weight too.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. It doesn't feel too techy. No, it kind of feels organic.

[Host 3]

Like you wouldn't sweat too much. It's not like. Yeah, like breathable still.

[Sage Toda Nation]

It's so good for summer. Like, there's nothing worse than having this. I just feeling like you've got a bin bag on you.

[Host 2]

What pants are these?

[Sage Toda Nation]

This is the Minichi, the mining trouser. Yeah. So this is.

[Host 3]

Oh, he's. He's chomping. Right.

[Host 2]

If I buy it in Paris while I get hit with less taxes.

[Sage Toda Nation]

If we get. If you get a pair, you gotta wear them every day. That's. That's the problem.

[Host 2]

Well, they're called the everyday pants. Yeah, I have to.

[Host 3]

Yeah. These are hard, bro. Oh, yeah. A little sale going on.

[Host 2]

I like the gray with the brown.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, we got a little brown.

[Host 3]

The brown is hard.

[Host 2]

Wait, these are. Oh, these aren't the money.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Cheese 30 sale.

[Host 3]

Yeah, I mean, listen, if you're listening at home, get him while the getting is good, dude.

[Host 2]

Here's the minichi. Oh, you got powder black and ivory.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Ivory, yes.

[Host 2]

And these are the ivory.

[Host 3]

It's a great cut and silhouette. It looks awesome.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Thank you.

[Host 3]

Yeah. Here's a quick question for you, Sage. Like, we're talking about the independent, like your contemporaries and peers in London that, that are crushing it, that you're supporting is like the narrative that, like, while that's happening, the kind of like greater kind of capital F fashion mechanisms have kind of like failed. Like LCM done. Like, what's the vibe from like people that make clothes in London? Like, is it.

[Sage Toda Nation]

What's lcn?

[Host 3]

Lcm? London Collection Men's. Like, they've oh, right.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

I mean that's how irrelevant is.

[Host 3]

You're not dead at. Right.

[Host 2]

Like what's.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. I mean be a London Fashion Week used to think of. It used to be such a thing, didn't it?

[Host 2]

It was. It was huge for a second it

[Host 3]

was like the neck. It was supposed to be the next thing.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

And it just completely petered out and now it's just done.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

And I guess we've all just had to find ways around that. But then when we started the brand, like a lot of brands that I can think of that we started similar times. We've just never had that. So we weren't relying on that anyway.

[Host 3]

Right.

[Sage Toda Nation]

But then you've got. You've got other peers, other guys I know that are part of more of the kind of BFC side of things and I think that's starting to change and I think it's starting to get way better. Like, I think it's because really like fashion's a big world. This. I think it was a little bit maybe too singular the angle on it and like the kind of brands they were helping. And I think it's. It's. But it's so important, isn't it to build a brand that's actually selling.

[Host 3]

Absolutely.

[Sage Toda Nation]

You know, so you can stand on your own two feet. Whatever you get extra is a bonus. But it's. Yeah. We've never been part of any incubator.

[Host 3]

Incubator sponsored thing. Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

What about nominations for prizes? Have you guys like been a part of any of these kind of like competitions? Like.

[Sage Toda Nation]

No, no, I went in for one.

[Host 3]

Okay. How'd that go?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Didn't get it. It got to the final round, they said no. I said I'm never doing that again because it took so much of my time.

[Host 3]

Oh, sure.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

And I felt like you wasted it. Yeah. I felt I could have just been.

[Host 2]

They make you jump through all the hoops. Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. And it's like if they just say no at the beginning then co. It's like Spence in the kiss ring for now.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

That's. They gave you sartorial blue balls.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. Literally.

[Host 2]

Do you own any like capital F fashion luxury pieces?

[Sage Toda Nation]

What do you mean?

[Host 2]

Like, like Prada. Oh, you're not really. Don't strike me as a big Balenciaga guy. I don't know.

[Host 3]

But you know, like Dre Yoji. Com.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Got a bit of helmet. We got a lot of a light helmet. Lang. So I collect a bit of that Vintage. Vintage. Some Armani square, some Essy stuff, some comm stuff.

[Host 3]

I think when you're saying all these brands, I kind of like can see how those things just like slightly bleed over.

[Sage Toda Nation]

There was the era of Prada, which is so good. Right when Neil. Was it. Neil Barrett.

[Host 3]

Neil Barrett, the Prada.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

That era is great. But yeah, I don't know what that's

[Host 3]

archive stuff that like reference pieces.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, I guess recent stuff. Stuff. I don't even know what's going on. I'm not even. Have you got much?

[Host 2]

No, no. Well, one can't afford it. Two don't want it.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

Except these beautiful Armani pants. What brands are most represented in your clot?

[Host 3]

No, these are. This is from the Archivio project. They were, they. They busted out the no cotton but

[Host 2]

kind of similar like a papery thin but like of. They're not water repellent because I, I know this because of some piss splashbacks. Any drop of water will stick. I.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Okay, I can see it.

[Host 2]

Right, Here's a story. Here's a story. Oh, wait. Well, I haven't waited.

[Host 3]

Why are you saving for the after?

[Host 2]

My knees are gonna sweat. My knees are gonna sweat.

[Host 3]

Put this, your calico cut pants.

[Sage Toda Nation]

At least you got the long, the longer T shirt to cover. Cover up.

[Host 2]

What brand though do you wear the most besides Sage? Your own Sage Nation and ymc.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Unicolo. Yeah, Unicolo, man, you can't beat it.

[Host 3]

Can I ask you a million dollar question real quick?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

Is Uniqlo fast fashion? We always debate this.

[Sage Toda Nation]

No, no, big fashion.

[Host 3]

Okay.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Big, big numbers. I wouldn't say it's fast because they're

[Host 2]

not like copying Runway training.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. No. Like I've got a friend that works at Uniqlo and he, he works on Jersey and he travels the world just to do research for the next T shirt. And he'll buy so much stuff to maybe potentially inform the next T shirt.

[Host 3]

Right.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Never really does to make the next terrorism. They, they, you know, look at the most finite details. It's not, it's not trend based. I guess it's more just. It's super democratic, it's super available. But I, I don't think it's far. It's not fast fashion, is it?

[Host 3]

Do you with Muji in the same kind of.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, love Muji. I like, I really like a lot of like, I love Smedley and like Suns Bell and these brands that kind of, they just don't do what they do. Yeah. British. Yeah. So I've got my favorite T shirt that I Wear is a sunspot T shirt.

[Host 2]

Nice.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Because they. That's just what they do. They're so good at it.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

And they can.

[Host 3]

That's why they charge the prices. They do.

[Sage Toda Nation]

That's why they.

[Host 2]

James Bond polo.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah. Have you ever had the sunspot?

[Host 2]

I had a sunspot. The T shirts are really good. They're. The Navy stuff is always really good.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

What. When you're in Japan, are you there just for work purposes? Work purposes or do you ever get to do any shopping?

[Sage Toda Nation]

I don't really do shopping. Karaoke.

[Host 2]

What's your karaoke song?

[Host 3]

Oh, Oasis.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Like, Joy Division. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's just like.

[Host 3]

Yeah. Monotone.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 3]

He's got no fish.

[Sage Toda Nation]

You can't really go wrong. And then everyone's like, yeah, he killed. Yeah.

[Host 3]

This guy's goated. Yo.

[Host 2]

Look at his cool T shirt with the mountain lines. And what. What's the one piece of clothing you talked about how you wear some, like, YMC stuff to death. You obviously, like, wear a ton of sage. What's the one piece of clothing you wear the most? And you can't say. It's like, unique underwear.

[Sage Toda Nation]

I need Yumi. I need Yumi Hits. I don't even know.

[Host 2]

It can't be a watch. It can't be a piece of jewelry.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Okay. My s. My Westminster coat. So we do a coat called a Westminster coat. Worn that to absolute shreds.

[Host 2]

It's. It's torched.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Torched. It's just like an overcoat. Like a really nice trench coat. And it's just a good. Oh, yeah. In London, you just need something like that.

[Host 3]

It's like a bow. It's like.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, this is fire. That's just. What.

[Host 2]

Which color?

[Sage Toda Nation]

The black one. That to death. But I love that I just like wearing this. You know when you just wear the same thing every day?

[Host 2]

We're wearing it in New York. Yeah, we met up. Yeah.

[Host 3]

That pocket detail on the back, the jetted, like, button pocket. That's sweet.

[Sage Toda Nation]

And I love it when clothes kind of start molding to your body and you just feel comfortable in it. Right. Yeah. I love that kind of idea of uniform.

[Host 3]

Second skin.

[Host 2]

Speaking. Speaking of feeling comfortable, how much money do you make?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Not enough.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Not enough. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Maybe you could take on a third job.

[Host 3]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You do get two salaries, right? Or I guess if you pay yourself from Sage Nation.

[Host 2]

We.

[Sage Toda Nation]

We work it out somehow.

[Host 2]

Somehow.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. We figure it out. We make it work. I get paid in clothes.

[Host 2]

Exactly. We assume you're Good. Now, right. You can afford the more expensive Birkenstocks. But back when you were young, dumb and full of calm, what was like the brokest behavior you'd have to indulge in as an adult just to get by

[Host 3]

besides the poop alarm?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Oh, good question. Broke behavior. I think just like cereal. Just like cereal all the time, you know, like.

[Host 2]

Like for meals.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

What was your go to with water? Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Ice cubes, milk and mix of. Yeah. Like 11 o' clock at night cereal.

[Host 2]

What was your go to cereal?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Shreddies.

[Host 3]

What's that? Is that like shredded Wheat Shreddies is

[Sage Toda Nation]

like, you know, like wheat. Wheat a bit.

[Host 3]

No.

[Host 2]

Oh, those are. That's disgusting. That's like old people fiber to poop food.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

You were setting off that fire alarm like crazy.

[Sage Toda Nation]

You guys have. You just put a lot of sugar in your cereal.

[Host 3]

Yo. Literally called Nestle Shreddies. The original. The original what?

[Host 2]

Yeah, we put a lot of cereal in our. In our. We put a lot of sugar in our cereal. And that's where the were number one.

[Host 3]

You get Frosted. Frosted Shreddies or just. Or.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Or raw. Yeah,

[Host 2]

the Weetabax is just like crackers and milk.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. But then you put a bit of sugar on top. Okay. And then, you know, with the Shreddies, they. The sugar. The sugar kind of gets in the milk.

[Host 3]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. We've had cereal before. We get it.

[Sage Toda Nation]

You kind of invented that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

It's why we all have diabetes.

[Host 3]

That is true.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was well broke stuff.

[Host 2]

I mean, we were like sleeping on.

[Sage Toda Nation]

I kind of wiped that from my brain.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

We're in a new place now.

[Host 3]

It kind of just happened. This is like. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Like, don't. It's kind of like.

[Host 2]

People sound like the broken behavior you ever in. Had to get up to was start a brand out of your bedroom.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

Just to get by. Just. You could stop working at the store.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. Gotta get out of that retail. But retail is great, right? I mean, you meet a lot of good people, but it's definitely me.

[Host 3]

It's university.

[Sage Toda Nation]

It's university. Yeah. You meet. I met so many. I mean, even Taryn, who works for me now. I met him through coming in. He came into the shop and then we got chatting. So. Yeah. I mean, one time we. Me and my. My oldest friend Randy, we got in a little Uber crash and claimed on the. We got like an insurance payout.

[Host 3]

Oh.

[Sage Toda Nation]

And that was what helped.

[Host 3]

What's the statute of limitations on that?

[Sage Toda Nation]

The first kind of samples. Really? Yeah.

[Host 3]

Wow.

[Sage Toda Nation]

So that was a big shout out

[Host 2]

that driver for being drunk on the job. That's crazy. Which, if you didn't get in the Uber crash, Sage Nation, as we know it wouldn't exist. You wouldn't be CD of YMC when people.

[Host 3]

You needed the damages just to get the ball rolling.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

Wow.

[Sage Toda Nation]

The money landed. And I was like, yeah, that's it. Sometimes.

[Host 2]

Well, your girlfriend's like, you better do something with these goddamn rolls of fabric.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. Get them out of the crib. Get them out the crib.

[Host 3]

Works mysterious ways.

[Sage Toda Nation]

She was 6y. Was sick of it.

[Host 2]

Now that you got a little paper, have. What's the dumbest purchase you've made recently? Something maybe regret?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Oh, that's a good question. I don't know. What have I regretted?

[Host 3]

Are you a cheap guy?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Generally, I'm pretty frugal. Yeah. No, I just. I kind of just have. What. I don't really buy too much.

[Host 2]

What's something you maybe, like, treated yourself

[Sage Toda Nation]

to recently, personally, you know what? Food. I just spend so much money. Like, we get good produce. We go butchers.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Fishmongers. I don't regret it, but it's. It's important, right? But when you look back at the. How much you've spent, it's a bit

[Host 2]

like, wow, you're not. You're not picking up a chicken at the car for.

[Sage Toda Nation]

No.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Sage Toda Nation]

No, no, no Anymore. Not anymore.

[Host 2]

Not anymore.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, we got the. A barbecue. I'm getting a barbecue.

[Host 3]

Oh, nice.

[Host 2]

Like in the. In the backyard.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah. That's not a waste of money.

[Host 3]

No.

[Sage Toda Nation]

If you use it a lot, you know, that's essential. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Is it gonna be like the Japanese style with the charcoal, or is it like a gas grill?

[Sage Toda Nation]

It's coal. Yeah. Defo coal. Gonna get like a. I think like a stainless steel joint, easy to clean.

[Host 2]

Yakitori.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

We're pulling up on you the next time we're in town. Hope you got that grill going.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Sage, we want to thank you for coming on the only podcast Matters. Before we get you out of here, do you have any constructive criticism you would like to give us?

[Sage Toda Nation]

You guys, no. Keep doing what you're doing.

[Host 3]

Thanks, bro.

[Host 2]

Come on, give us a call. Killing it, man. No, come on.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Killing it.

[Host 3]

Be meaner.

[Sage Toda Nation]

I don't know.

[Host 2]

Book a better conference.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 3]

Maybe run the AC Two hours before

[Sage Toda Nation]

I can get used to this. No, no advice. Killing it.

[Host 3]

Wow. Okay, I'll take that.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Intros are. No, they're.

[Host 2]

No, I. I with intro so bad.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Maybe you should right now. You know what I want to want you to do? Don't intro someone one time. Well, hey, just act like you've come

[Host 3]

to one of our live shows. We don't have time allotted for it,

[Sage Toda Nation]

so don't do that.

[Host 2]

All right, Sage. Thank you. Where can the kids follow? Where can the kids follow you? What would you like to plug?

[Sage Toda Nation]

Yeah, so the brand Instagram is underscore Sage Nation.

[Host 2]

Pretty. Pretty decent amount of followers for a small, you know, brand of five, six years.

[Sage Toda Nation]

We're getting there. We're getting there. And then we got. And then why. So you got YMC London and then Sage Nation and. Yeah, that's it. That's it.

[Host 3]

Hell, yeah.

[Sage Toda Nation]

Thank you for having me.

[Host 2]

Go buy the Mind Sage. Thank you for coming. Podcast again. Chef, take us out.

[Sage Toda Nation]

It's been a pleasure.

[Host 1]

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