Lee Ellen and I discuss the destructive nature of letting the judge be in control of life. How it is an enticing, well-worn habit. The judge that came as a guest and stayed as a permanent saboteur. Letting that go takes conscious effort, it doesn't disappear by magic. The rewards are amazing!

Vickidawn: I'll start by saying welcome to episode 29 of tiny changes-Big Shift podcast, Kick the Judge to the Curb. I'm excited to have you here, Lee Ellen.

Lee Ellen: Well, thank you. It's nice for you to have me.

Vickidawn: Do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself?

Lee Ellen: In what capacity? Let's see.

Vickidawn: Well, you make jewelry.

Lee Ellen: Oh, yes. Yes, I do. I make jewelry and I am a retired mortgage officer and an office manager and a loan closer. I haven't worked for over 11 years, and I have been a sober person for over 14 years.

Vickidawn: Yes. Just recently you had a birthday. That's so exciting.

Our topic is judgment of yourself, of others, of circumstances, or in the language of our program - people, places, and things. Our judge formed in childhood, as we know, and that's where we absorbed others' opinions and maybe their worldview and incorporated them into our own. Some of them worked and many of them limit us.

The biggest way the judge, I name mine the janky judge with an ensemble of characters that I call the hater-aid crew, is - It tells me I can't, I'm not smart enough, I don't have enough experience, and this stops me from expressing my gifts because it stops me from taking on new things - unless I really drag myself by the ear and say, "Come on, you're doing it." Right?

Lee Ellen: Right.

Vickidawn: There is the obvious, of course, the judge that's hard on us. How does your judge show up Lee Ellen?

Lee Ellen: Well, my judge shows up-- It's always been there. It's been there since I was young. I have always felt judged by family. I think it showed up as I wasn't ever good enough. I had an older sister who was extremely smart. She was always thin. She was always outgoing, and she was always popular, and I just couldn't compete with that. It was started then, and then pretty soon I quit trying.

I myself felt like it didn't matter, I would never be good enough. Not only was I being judged or felt like I was being judged, I judged myself and then I started judging other people. My judge showed up all the time. I lived with the judge. I was the judge. I was judged. Part of my life, it was pretty sad. I just thought that's the way life was.

Vickidawn: Yes. I think all of us were so acquainted because at some point the judge convinced us that it's our friend, that it's there to protect us to-- well, in my case, if I do it just perfect, then I am not subject to any judgment because you can't judge perfect, but perfect is such a high bar and I never could reach it and nobody can. I know you're in the program also, and you've worked the program and been diligent about that and done what you needed to do there and still, the judge is present. Were you aware even well into your recovery that you had that judge living there?

Lee Ellen: No, I didn't until later in the program after working my steps. In fact, I didn't even know what boundaries were. I had no boundaries, and I grew up in a family with 10 kids and there couldn't be boundaries. Nobody knew what a boundary was. But also, I didn't know how to think nicely of other people. I judged them quietly in my mind and I never thought anything was wrong with that. It was a terrible thing when I found out that, boy, I thought in my mind all the time about somebody when I would see them on the street, when they would walk in my office, when they left my office. I thought that's what they were doing with me is judging me in that way.

When I got into the program and found that, no, that's not how people are that they're loving and kind. Somebody said to me once, "Why do you always say such horrible things about people?" I thought, "Well, doesn't everybody?" I actually said to this person, "Well, they don't hear me say it. I don't say it in front of them. They don't hear me say it." She said, "Yes, but you know what? I think when I leave the room, you're probably saying that about me too."

Lee Ellen: I never ever thought-- I just thought, "Well. I knew that was happening behind my back." That's what I thought because that's what was happening in my home when I grew up. I really made a conscious effort from that point on to not think those thoughts and then I wouldn't say them, or to not say them then I wouldn't think them. It worked. It really worked, but it took the program and working the steps and taking the catalyst class of yours to weed out those things in my life, those character defects, and being able to name my judge and to say, "Oh, I don't need that. That isn't the part of my life I want. What a shortcoming to have."

Vickidawn: You're not alone. That's the other thing. We all have a judge.

Lee Ellen: Yes. I didn't think other people did. When I learned how horrible it was that I was being. I thought, "I don't want anybody else to ever know this." Here I am talking about it.

Vickidawn: Times change.

Lee Ellen: Yes.

Vickidawn: What about circumstances? Do you find that you judge circumstances in your life?

Lee Ellen: Well, I did. I always blamed things that have happened in my life as, "Well, that's the reason why I am the way I am." But I think I changed things in my mind to make it okay for me to act the way I act. Well, the way I grew up was the circumstances that made it okay for me to be judgmental.

Vickidawn: Oh, sure.

Lee Ellen: I don't do that. I don't believe that anymore. Sure, there's a lot of circumstances that happen in your life, but you have a choice as to what to make of them. I lived with those circumstances and what I believed them to be again until I took a class that said, "Let's look at it, let's look at what really happened." [chuckles] It was a little different than what I made it out to be when I looked back and thought, "That isn't the truth."

Vickidawn: That's another key point, the judge lies to us.

Lee Ellen: It does. It does.

Vickidawn: Yes.

Lee Ellen: I wanted to believe what I wanted to believe, and it wasn't the truth.

Vickidawn: It fits our perception maybe of how we interpreted events, because we are just always meaning-making machines, and as humans, we try to make sense of our experiences and what happened. Of course, when we're young and we're forming these judgements, we don't have the sophistication or maturity. We do form some pretty ridiculous, in my case, judgments about myself and my place in this world and what to expect.

Lee Ellen: Right. I'm not sure that I still have the sophistication to figure it out, and that's why I don't want to stop learning. I don't want to stop learning on how to discern what's going on with my emotions and with that judge and how to change those reactions and those thoughts and those shortcomings. I don't want to go back to thinking that way.

Vickidawn: Right. You used the word discernment earlier, and I think that's a good place to clarify. Yes, we don't want to put our hand on a hot stove, so our judge telling us, "That is a flipping hot stove. Don't touch it," is a good thing. There are also times where the judge really can come in handy in protecting us or putting up that wall if somebody is being harmful to us. It's not saying we can't discern what is good for us and what's not. It's that, the judge, when it steps in to say, "You're stupid, they're stupid," the one that says, "I can't. Oh, you better not try that because what if you fail." That judge is the one we're talking about here that we want to let go of.

Lee Ellen: Yes. I still let that judge tell me, "Oh, you don't want to sell that jewelry you make. It's just not good enough for people. People are going to scoff at it," or, "They're not going to buy it. Don't try."

Vickidawn: Yes. Vulnerability.

Lee Ellen: I still face that all the time and it takes a lot of changing-

Vickidawn: Courage.

Lee Ellen: -to change that, to get the courage to just go out there and do it.

Vickidawn: Yes, and support, right?

Lee Ellen: Oh, definitely. Definitely, yes. The support that I get from the people I know in the program is amazing. Sometimes they push and they push and they push and I like to try to ignore it, but it's there and I have to admit, "Geez, why don't I try it? Why don't I?" What have I got to lose? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Vickidawn: That's another good point.

Lee Ellen: I'm 66-years-old, so what else am I going to do?

Vickidawn: Yes. What can happen?

Lee Ellen: Right. [laughs]

Vickidawn: If they don't buy it, okay, they didn't buy it. They're not buying it now when you don't put it out there, right?

Lee Ellen: Right, and I get to wear it tomorrow then.

Vickidawn: Yes. We know that part of growing is to push ourselves outside our comfort zones and that's what you're talking about there.

Lee Ellen: Yes.

Vickidawn: This is also where the judge can ...