Podcast Summary: Todo Concostrina - "12 de noviembre de 1938: Un hogar para los judíos… en Madagascar"

Host: SER Podcast
Presenter: Nieves Concostrina
Date: November 12, 2024

Episode Overview

This episode, presented by Nieves Concostrina, explores the little-known proposal by Nazi Germany to create a Jewish state in Madagascar. Through a blend of sharp wit and critical historical analysis, Nieves traces the origins and fate of various failed projects to settle European Jews outside of Palestine, highlighting the complex and, at times, tragic intersections of Zionism, colonial ambitions, and twentieth-century antisemitism.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Madagascar Plan: Context and Origins

• Nazi Germany's Proposal (1938)
  • On November 12, 1938, less than a year before WWII, Hermann Göring put forth the "Madagascar Plan," which envisioned relocating European Jews to Madagascar—then a French colony (01:06).
  • Nieves clarifies: "Aunque aquello, la verdad, más bien iba a ser una cárcel." ("It was really going to be a prison." - 01:23)
  • The plan was not rooted in Jewish aspirations, but in antisemitic policies of Nazi Germany.

2. The Long Search for a Jewish Homeland

• Genesis in Sionism and Theodore Herzl
  • Sionism, a nationalist Jewish movement, crystallized with Theodore Herzl’s efforts in the late 19th century (03:13).
  • The first Zionist Congress was held in 1897 in Basel, Switzerland, with the clear objective of establishing a Jewish state in Palestine (04:32).
    • "El objetivo sería conseguir... establecer para, abro comillas, el pueblo judío, un hogar seguro en Palestina." ("The goal was to... establish, I quote, for the Jewish people, a safe home in Palestine." - 04:41)
• Colonization Strategies
  • Early Zionist strategies involved gradual colonization, strengthening Jewish religious identity, and seeking governmental support (05:10).
  • Palestine, dictated by religious narrative, always remained “la única meta” ("the only goal" - 06:26).

3. Alternative Destinations: A Catalogue of Rejected Homelands

• British Uganda Program ("Kenia")
  • In the early 1900s, the British offered part of what is now Kenya (then called Uganda) as a possible site for Jewish settlement (07:19).
  • This proposal was genuinely considered, even voted and approved by the Zionist Congress, but sparked "bronca interna" ("internal conflict") among the delegates (08:55).
    • "Esto se vota y sí, sí, muchos delegados judíos se retiraron ofendidos..." ("It passed a vote and yes, many Jewish delegates walked out offended..." - 08:57)
  • Ultimately dismissed due to local resistance (from the Maasai), dangerous wildlife, and internal disagreement (09:40).
• Other Destinations
  • There were brief considerations of Alaska, Australia (Kimberley region), British Guiana, southern Russia (Crimea), and South America (10:34).
  • None advanced: "Mucho menos, mucho menos... no prosperó ninguno." ("Much less, much less... none prospered." - 10:36)
  • US President Roosevelt rejected large-scale Jewish resettlement in Alaska (10:59).
  • "Los sionistas judíos son muy malos vecinos. Hasta Lenin planteó crear un óblast..." ("Jewish Zionists are very bad neighbors. Even Lenin proposed creating an oblast..." - 10:40)

4. The Nazi Madagascar Plan: Execution and Collapse

• Implementation & Failure
  • The "Madagascar Plan" was revived in 1940, after France’s fall, when Madagascar became accessible to the Nazis (11:54).
  • Intended as a police-state, the plan envisioned transferring 4 million Jews to the island (12:14).
  • Nieves summarizes its true intent: "Esto era una cárcel. Claro, ese era el plan, de hecho. Seguramente para exterminarlos allí." ("This was a prison. That was really the plan. Likely to exterminate them there." - 12:16)
  • Ultimately replaced by the "Final Solution" (Holocaust), the systematic extermination in death camps (12:29).

5. Western Complicity and Aftermath

• Role of Western Powers
  • European and American governments watched the rise of Jewish persecution, Jewish migration to Palestine, and Nazi atrocities mostly passively.
  • Nieves: "Eso se permitió. Vieron como quien oye llover..." ("That was allowed. They watched as if it were just background noise..." - 12:32)
• Enduring Legacy and Modern Parallels
  • Today’s Israeli impunity is, according to Nieves, a consequence of those years of inaction and guilt by Western powers (13:04).
  • She draws a direct, controversial parallel between international apathy then and current conflicts: "Por eso ahora el mundo les perdona que los israelíes masacren a decenas de miles de gazatíes..." ("That's why the world now forgives Israelis for massacring tens of thousands in Gaza..." - 13:28)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Irony of the Madagascar Plan:
  “Esto parece un chiste malo de esto de nazis, Madagascar, los judíos. Pero no es un chiste malo...”
  ("This sounds like a bad Nazi joke: Jews in Madagascar. But it's not a bad joke..." - 01:29)

• On the Role of Religious Narrative:
  "En la Biblia pone que Dios les dijo que la tierra era por aquí... que tenía que ser ahí."
  ("In the Bible it says God told them the land had to be there." - 06:27)

• On Western Responsibility:
  "Europa y Estados Unidos cerraron sus fronteras para que los judíos no entraran."
  ("Europe and the United States closed their borders so Jews couldn't enter." - 12:58)

• On the Ongoing Legacy:
  "La impunidad internacional y el despotismo con los que actúa Israel son todavía las rentas de las que vive..."
  ("The international impunity and despotic conduct of Israel are still the dividends they're cashing in on..." - 13:06)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:06] — Madagascar Plan announced by Hermann Göring
• [03:13] — Zionism's origins and the first Zionist Congress
• [04:32] — Details of the Basel Congress and initial plans for Palestine
• [07:19] — The "Uganda/Kenia" British proposal
• [08:55] — Internal Zionist conflict over Uganda proposal
• [10:34] — Review of other proposed homelands (Alaska, Australia, etc.)
• [11:54] — Nazi plan for Madagascar revisited post-Fall of France
• [12:29] — Shift from "territorial solution" to the Holocaust
• [13:06] — Commentary on the enduring consequences in international politics

Tone and Style

Nieves Concostrina blends scholarly research with an informal, at times biting, and deeply skeptical tone. She debunks sanitized historical narratives and confronts listeners with uncomfortable connections between centuries of antisemitic policy, global indifference, and the roots of current Middle Eastern tensions. As always, history is recounted with her trademark mix of irony, critical perspective, and sharp language.

For listeners and history enthusiasts, this episode sheds new light on the dark absurdities and tragic consequences behind ideas for a Jewish homeland far beyond the Middle East—and on the world’s repeated failures to provide justice for its persecuted minorities.