Podcast Summary: Todo Concostrina

Episode: “Acontece que no es poco” — 24 de octubre de 1922: Mussolini: "O nos dan el gobierno o iremos a Roma a tomarlo"

Host: Nieves Concostrina
Date: October 23, 2024
Tone: Irreverent, critical, informative

Episode Overview

This episode, with Nieves Concostrina’s trademark candor and historical insight, explores the events leading to Benito Mussolini’s 1922 rise to power in Italy—specifically the pivotal moment when Mussolini threatened to “go to Rome and take the government” if it wasn’t handed to him. Through parallel references to Spanish and European monarchies, Concostrina deconstructs how fascist regimes exploit and ultimately destroy democratic institutions from within, with monarchs often complicit when their own interests are at stake. The discussion draws sharp analogies with Spain’s own political history and spotlights the dangers of unchecked royal authority.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Historical Parallels: Spain and Italy

• Comparison to Spanish Context: The episode begins by recalling how Spain’s right-wing CEDA party signaled their contempt for democracy in the 1930s if electoral outcomes didn’t suit them (00:24), drawing a deliberate comparison to Mussolini’s Italy.
  • Quote: “Cuando Gil Robles... advirtió en un mitin que su objetivo no era la democracia... si el Parlamento... no atendía a lo que ellos querían... se quedaría en el Parlamento.” (00:24, B)

2. The Italian Political Crisis (1922)

• Breakdown of Events:

  • Italy’s transition from parliamentary monarchy to fascist dictatorship began with King Victor Emmanuel III’s support of Mussolini. The process was gradual, playing out over the last week of October 1922.
  • Role of the Monarch: Concostrina sharply criticizes monarchs for siding with totalitarian regimes when their thrones are at stake.
  • Quote: “Un rey siempre, siempre... está más cerca del totalitarismo que de la democracia.” (02:28, A)

• Situation in Italy:

  • Italy was struggling with political instability after World War I.
  • Fragmented Left: The left fractured itself, paving the way for right-wing and fascist coalitions.
  • Giovanni Giolitti: Introduced as “the Felipe González of Italy”—a politician who drifted ideologically from left to right, ultimately enabling fascist participation in government for strategic reasons.
    • Quote: “Giolitti... solo decir que era el Felipe González de Italia... Este desorientado apostó por contemporizar con la extrema derecha fascista...” (06:40, A)

3. The Fateful Threat and the March on Rome

• Mussolini’s Threat (24 October 1922):

  • At a Naples rally, Mussolini publicly threatened: “O nos dan el gobierno o iremos a Roma a tomarlo.”
  • This was a calculated test rather than a concrete plan, as the fascist movement was not as strong as it seemed.
  • Quote: “La amenaza de Mussolini, más que amenaza era un tanteo a ver por dónde respiraba el rey Víctor Manuel.” (07:59, A)

• Government’s Response:

  • PM Luigi Facta sought to declare a state of siege to stop the fascist threat.
  • King Victor Emmanuel III refused to sign the decree, effectively enabling the coup.
  • Notable moment: Concostrina’s warning on royal overreach:
    • Quote: “Un jefe de Estado perpetuo es muy peligroso para un país. Muy peligroso.” (09:40, A)

• Military’s Position:

  • General Pietro Badoglio said the army could easily disperse the fascists.
  • The king disregarded this advice too.

• Why Did the King Give In?

  • Self-preservation: Mussolini allegedly promised another royal—the king’s cousin—the throne if not supported.
  • The king opted to back Mussolini to safeguard his own position.
  • Quote: “Un rey se hace el demócrata mientras la democracia le asegure el trono. Pero si ese trono se lo mantiene el fascismo, a la porra la democracia.” (12:09, A)

4. The Aftermath and Historical Lessons

• The Transfer of Power:

  • King Victor Emmanuel III telegrammed Mussolini, inviting him to form a government, prompting the PM’s resignation.
  • This was justified by the king as a means to avoid civil war, but historians argue the fascist threat was exaggerated.
  • Comparison: The allegedly massive “March on Rome” (50,000–70,000 people) was meager compared to modern demonstrations, highlighting its theatrical nature.

• The “Continued” Story:

  • The episode ends with the promise to continue — specifically, how Mussolini “entered as a democrat and dismantled democracy from within.” (14:40)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Los fascistas... solo ingresan en las instituciones democráticas para reventarlas desde dentro.” (01:45, A)
  Translation: “Fascists only enter democratic institutions to blow them up from within.”

• Bertrand Russell (quoted):
  “Los fascistas primero fascinan a los tontos, luego amordazan a los inteligentes.” (04:13, A)

• On Monarchs and Fascism:
  “Un rey siempre... está más cerca del totalitarismo que de la democracia.” (02:28, A)

• Satirical Comparison:

  • Concostrina likens Giolitti’s ideological journey to Felipe González’s, drawing laughs while underscoring shifting political convictions (06:40, A).

• King’s Betrayal:
  “El rey Víctor Manuel agarra ese decreto, lo guarda bajo una llave... y no lo firma.” (09:25, A)

• General Badoglio’s Admission:
  “Yo era fascista porque el rey lo era.” (11:40, A)

Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:24 – Spanish right’s antidemocratic threats
• 01:12 – Mussolini’s rise begins, role of King Victor Emmanuel III
• 02:28 – Critique of monarchy’s alignment with totalitarianism
• 04:13 – Bertrand Russell quote
• 06:40 – Profile and significance of Giovanni Giolitti
• 07:59 – Mussolini’s threat contextualized
• 09:25 – The king refuses to stop the fascists
• 11:40 – General Badoglio's statement of loyalty
• 12:09 – Monarch’s self-preservation and complicity
• 14:40 – The “March on Rome” as pantomime; comparison to recent protests in Madrid
• 15:04 – Tease for the next episode

Conclusion

Through vivid storytelling and sharp analysis, Nieves Concostrina details how Mussolini’s fascism usurped Italy’s democracy—with active complicity from the monarchy and opportunistic moderates. She warns that such patterns repeat when institutions and individuals charged with defending democracy fail to do so. The episode ends with a promise to unravel what happened after Mussolini’s appointment, setting the stage for further investigation in subsequent episodes.