Podcast Summary: "Acontece que no es poco | 600 años desde que se largó el Papa Luna, aragonés y testarudo"

Podcast: Todo Concostrina
Host: Nieves Concostrina, with Carlas
Date: May 23, 2023

Main Theme

This episode commemorates the 600th anniversary of the death of Benedicto XIII, better known as "El Papa Luna" – a stubborn Aragonese pope (or anti-pope, depending who you ask). Nieves Concostrina dives deep into the life, legacy, and posthumous journeys (including literal journeys) of the famous and controversial Papal figure, adding her unique humor and historical insight.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Stubborn Aragonese Pope: Who Was Benedicto XIII?

• Nieves introduces the episode with wordplay on the title of the film "La guerra de Papá" (The War of Dad)—today, they talk about the “war of the Papa” (the Pope), specifically an Aragonese, Benedicto XIII, aka El Papa Luna.
  • Nieves (01:41): “El Benedicto XIII que es? El Papa Luna, el antipapa para unos, el Papa legítimo para otros. Aragonés de Illueca de Zaragoza y testarudo.”
• Aragonés and stubborn: Nieves jokes about Aragonese tenacity, quoting her friend:
  • Nieves (01:48): “Algunos aragoneses no tienen espermatozoides, tienen espermatozudo. Pues Benedicto XIII, él es maño... vino de un espermatozudo y hasta el último de sus días estuvo reclamando su derecho a la poltrona de Pedro.”
• Main historical context:
  • Benedicto XIII was a central figure in the Great Schism of the West (Cisma de Occidente), a period with multiple popes battling for legitimacy and power.

The Great Schism Explained – Three Popes and a Ton of Drama

• Background:
  • Carlas (04:08): “Estamos en la época del famoso Cisma de Occidente. Había un papa en Aviñón, el otro en Roma. Pero había dos. Se pelearon tres…”
• How did it get so complicated?
  • Each "side" (Rome and Avignon) replaced their pope when he died, leading to no resolution.
  • A council "fired" both popes and installed a new one, but the old ones refused to budge, leading to a three-pope scenario.
  • Solution came when the schism could no longer be maintained; Benedicto XIII was ousted but found refuge in Peñíscola with help from the Crown of Aragon.

The Legacy and Calvary of Benedicto XIII's Remains

1. Death and Wishes:

   • Dies at 95 in Peñíscola, still claiming papal legitimacy.
   • Nieves (02:05): "Se negaba a morirse hasta que no le devolvieran el papado. Por eso aguantó el tío hasta los 95 tacos..."
   • He wanted to be buried in his birthplace, Illueca.

2. Post-mortem journey:

   • Initially buried in Peñíscola; seven years later, exhumed, transferred to Illueca, greeted as a local hero.
   • Became a focus for pilgrimages, much to Rome’s annoyance.

3. Desecration and Loss:

   • French invaders sacked his family’s castle, defenestrated his remains (threw them out the window into the River Aranda).
   • Nieves's quote (06:38): “…lo despeñaron desde el castillo de Illueca. Literalmente lo defenestraron…”

4. The Prophecy Fulfilled?!

   • Anecdote: Saint Vicente Ferrer allegedly said Benedicto’s head would only be good for kids to play ball with—prophetically, the head was later played with by soldiers and thieves.
   • Carlas (08:29): “Eso de que su cabeza solo serviría para... Bueno, dice, solo sirve para jugar la pelota. Serviría en este caso.”
   • Nieves: “Pues tiene mucho que ver…” and details the bizarre travels of the "cocorota" (skull).

The Skull’s Turbulent 20th Century

• Found, lost, found again:
  • After being fished out of the river Aranda, it ended up at Saviñán (by the “descendants” of the Pope Luna).
  • During the Spanish Civil War, it was played with, rescued, then put away and ignored.
  • Eventually, it was stolen by two inept young thieves seeking ransom.
  • The theft led to restoration, forensic analysis (carbon 14), and a legal/administrative battle over its rightful home.
• Notable quote (09:52):
  • “A partir de aquí todo Aragón volcado con el cráneo del antipapa… ahora parece que no hay nada más importante que esa cocorota, o sea, paradoja.”

The Current "War" for the Skull

• Municipal rivalry:
  • Three towns now claim the skull: Illueca (his birthplace), Saviñán (where the relic ended up), and Peñíscola (where he died).
  • The skull spent 20 years in the Zaragoza Museum’s basement, but a recent court ruling ordered its return to Saviñán.
  • Nieves (12:49):
    • “Después de tirarse... la cocorota de este hombre 20 años guardada en una caja en los sótanos del Museo de Zaragoza, el Tribunal Superior de Justicia de Aragón ha sentenciado que el cráneo… tiene que volver a Saviñán… Illueca tiene un cabreo del 13…”

Pop Culture, Language, and Political Irony

• Origin of the Spanish saying “to stay on one’s thirteen"
  • Mantenerse en sus trece (to stubbornly stick to one’s guns) allegedly comes from Benedicto XIII's refusal to abdicate.
  • Nieves (12:53): “Lo de mantenerte en tus trece viene de él. No había quien le apeara.”
• Modern political jabs:
  • Nieves criticizes how political and religious figures focus more energy on the skull of a medieval anti-pope than on contemporary social issues (e.g., handling cases of abuse).
  • Nieves (11:31): “Me gustaría mirarle a Lambán. Y a mí se me ocurren muchas mejores razones para pegarte un viaje a Roma…”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Humor on Aragonese stubbornness:
  • Nieves (01:48): “Algunos aragoneses no tienen espermatozoides, tienen espermatozudo.”
• Summary of papal chaos:
  • Nieves (04:20): “...fue la época en la que hubo dos papas mandando en paralelo... Hasta que decidieron echar a los dos papas que había y elegir a uno nuevo. Pero como ninguno de los dos que echaron se quería ir, al final resulta que en vez de dos papas, hubo tres.”
• On the desecration of the remains:
  • Nieves (06:38): “…lo despeñaron desde el castillo de Illueca. Literalmente lo defenestraron. Lo que quedaba de Benedicto XIII lo tiraron todo por la ventana y acabó en el río Aranda.”
• Paradoxes of fame and history:
  • Nieves (09:53): “...ni caso a la cabeza hasta entonces. Y ahora parece que no hay nada más importante que esa cocorota, o sea, paradoja.”
• Origin of the saying "mantenerse en sus trece":
  • Nieves (12:53): "Lo de mantenerte en tus trece viene de él. No había quien le apeara."

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:34 – Banter & Intro: Playful intro about “madurar” (to mature).
• 01:35 – Main theme introduction: The story of the stubborn, Aragonese Pope.
• 04:08 – Contextualizing the Great Schism: Multiple popes, Church chaos.
• 06:04 – Posthumous journey: Where did Papa Luna want to be buried?
• 09:52 – Skull shenanigans: Theft, forensic adventure, and media circus.
• 12:49 – The court decision: Where’s the skull now? Municipal disputes.
• 13:27 – Final reflections and cultural legacy: The phrase “mantenerse en sus trece.”

Conclusion

In her trademark satirical style, Nieves Concostrina guides listeners through the life, death, and afterlife of Benedicto XIII, the infamous Pope Luna. What starts as a tale of ecclesiastic stubbornness and medieval drama morphs into a lesson on historical memory, local rivalries, and the paradoxes of fame: from being thrown out a castle window to becoming the most contested relic in all Aragón. As usual, Nieves mixes wit, skepticism, and historical rigor for an entertaining look at Spain’s (and the Vatican's) more bizarre episodes.

Final quote from Nieves (13:27):
“Benedicto XIII es un papa entretenidísimo, como hemos podido comprobar. Es muy bronca, muy tozudo y mucho excomulgado. Es un papa que fue de cráneo en su pontificado, pero con un cráneo que ha dado mucho juego.”