Podcast Summary
Podcast: Todo Concostrina
Host: Nieves Concostrina
Episode: El maravilloso y extravagante país de Alicia cumple 157 años
Date: May 24, 2022
Overview
In this episode, Nieves Concostrina celebrates the 157th anniversary of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland ("Alicia en el país de las maravillas"), exploring the story's origins, its real-life inspirations, its cultural impact, and the more controversial aspects of its author, Lewis Carroll. With her signature witty and irreverent style, Concostrina delves into the historical, literary, and personal stories behind the legendary book.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
The Real Alice and the Story's Origins
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A Real Girl, a Real Friendship:
- The inspiration for "Alicia" was a real girl named Alice Liddell.
- The story began during a river outing on the Thames in 1862 when Charles Lutwidge Dodgson (Lewis Carroll) entertained Alice and her sisters with an improvised tale.
"Empezó con un paseo en barca por el Támesis en el verano de 1862 [...] Charles se inventa un cuento con unas aventuras muy locas a partir de que una niña se cuela por la madriguera de un conejo." (03:20-04:01)
- That same night, Dodgson wrote notes which he later expanded into a manuscript.
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From Manuscript to Global Classic:
- Carroll produced a hand-illustrated version named “Las aventuras de Alicia en el mundo subterráneo” as a Christmas gift to Alice Liddell in 1864 (05:00).
- Commercial publication followed in 1865 with “Las aventuras de Alicia en el país de las maravillas,” sparking instant success.
Why Alice Stood Out
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No Infantilization:
- The book became notable for not treating child readers as fools.
"Era un libro infantil en el que a los niños no se les trataba como idiotas, no se les habla como si fueran tontos. Era un relato sin moñerías, con violencia, con reinas que cortan cabezas." (05:40)
- The book became notable for not treating child readers as fools.
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Striking Imagery & Surrealism:
- The text inspired major surrealist artists like Dalí and Magritte (01:08).
- Nieves discusses how Magritte’s paintings—such as the giant apple echoing Alice’s growing scene and the mysterious eyes and mouth (the Cheshire Cat)—channel Wonderland’s surreal spirit.
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Mathematical and Logical Riddles:
- Carroll's background as a mathematics lecturer shaped the book’s puzzles.
Riddle example: “¿Qué reloj marca mejor la hora? ¿El reloj que está parado o un reloj que atrasa un minuto al día? [...] Siempre marca mejor la hora el parado, porque al menos dos veces al día va a dar la hora correcta.” (06:28-06:53)
- Carroll's background as a mathematics lecturer shaped the book’s puzzles.
The Colorful World and Its Reception
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A Global & Literary Phenomenon:
- Revered by writers like Joyce, Woolf, and Nabokov, Alice has been continuously adapted for movies, theatre, and television (07:33-07:47).
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Loved by Monarchs:
- Even Queen Victoria was a fan, famously requesting Carroll’s next book. However, she was dismayed when his “next” work was a treatise on algebra, not another story.
"A la reina Victoria le gustó tanto el libro que ordenó que en cuanto este tal Lewis Carroll publicara otro que no conocía de nada, oye, que se lo llevaran de inmediato [...] Pero éste se titulaba Una teoría elemental de los determinantes, que era un nuevo método de álgebra para calcular no sé qué historias..." (07:54-08:37)
- Even Queen Victoria was a fan, famously requesting Carroll’s next book. However, she was dismayed when his “next” work was a treatise on algebra, not another story.
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The “Mad Hatter” and English Idioms:
- The Mad Hatter wasn’t an invention, but an English turn of phrase (“mad as a hatter”).
"Igual que aquí decimos eso de está más loco que una cabra, los ingleses dicen loco como un sombrerero porque este gremio usaba mucho el nitrato de mercurio..." (06:01-06:18)
- The Mad Hatter wasn’t an invention, but an English turn of phrase (“mad as a hatter”).
The Darker Side of Lewis Carroll
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Obsession with Girls and Photography:
- Concostrina openly addresses Carroll’s extensive attention to young girls, especially through photography—sometimes with unsettling undertones.
“Vale que se empeñara en fotografiar solo a niñas, que tuviera una lista con el nombre de 103 niñas a las que quería retratar. [...] Algunas las fotografió desnudas [...] No parece que fuera trigo limpio, aunque tampoco hay pruebas de nada. ¿Sospechas de sus biógrafos? Pues no muchas, todas.” (09:53-10:53)
- Concostrina openly addresses Carroll’s extensive attention to young girls, especially through photography—sometimes with unsettling undertones.
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Broken Relationships and Missing Diaries:
- Carroll’s close friendship with Alice Liddell soured abruptly after he allegedly proposed marriage when she was about 13.
- Her parents demanded he stay away. Parts of his diary corresponding to this period are missing, raising further suspicions.
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Nabokov’s Verdict:
- Vladimir Nabokov, author of Lolita, translated Alice into Russian and called Carroll “el primer Humbert Humbert” (the first literary model for his own character known for his obsession with a young girl).
“El autor de Alicia en el país de las maravillas [...] fue el primer Humber Humber.” (11:31-11:38)
- Vladimir Nabokov, author of Lolita, translated Alice into Russian and called Carroll “el primer Humbert Humbert” (the first literary model for his own character known for his obsession with a young girl).
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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On Surreal Influence:
"Inspiró a algunos miembros del movimiento surrealista, incluso Dalí interpretó el mundo simbólico de Alicia. Y Magritte...sus pinturas están requetinspiradísimas en Alicia." (01:03-01:18)
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On the Real Alice:
"La historia que se inventa Charles es tan extravagante que la mediana de las chicas, Alicia, le dice que eso no se puede quedar ahí, que por favor escribiera todas esas maravillosas aventuras que ocurrían en aquel país inventado." (04:09-04:20)
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On Carroll's Riddles:
"Le dice el sombrerero loco. Alicia, ¿Qué reloj marca mejor la hora? ¿El reloj que está parado o un reloj que atrasa un minuto al día? Bueno, pues siempre marca mejor la hora el parado, porque al menos dos veces al día va a dar la hora correcta." (06:28-06:53)
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On Carroll’s Reputation:
"No parece que fuera trigo limpio, aunque tampoco hay pruebas de nada. ¿Sospechas de sus biógrafos? Pues no muchas, todas." (10:47-10:53)
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On Nabokov’s Point:
"El autor de Alicia en el país de las maravillas siempre lo he llamado Lewis Carroll, porque fue el primer Humber Humber." (11:34-11:41)
Timestamps for Important Segments
- [00:56] Introduction to Alice's anniversary and her place in popular culture
- [03:13] How the story was born on a boat trip
- [05:00] The transformation from story to published book
- [06:01] The origins of the Mad Hatter and Alice's logical riddles
- [07:33] Alice’s cross-generational and cross-genre impact
- [07:54] Queen Victoria’s unexpected love for the book
- [09:53] The “dark side” of Lewis Carroll’s interests and behaviors
- [11:31] Nabokov connects Carroll to “Humbert Humbert”
Tone and Style
Throughout the episode, Nieves Concostrina employs humor, irreverence, and curiosity, blending astute historical detail with contemporary wit. The episode balances celebration of a literary masterpiece with unflinching attention to the complicated—and sometimes troubling—legacy of its author.
