Podcast Summary

Podcast: Todo Concostrina

Host: Nieves Concostrina (A)
Co-host/Interviewer: Carlas (B)
Episode Title: "La larga muerte de Julia Pastrana, la mujer barbuda"
Date: March 27, 2023

Episode Overview

This episode of Acontece que no es poco delves into the tragic and disturbing story of Julia Pastrana, a 19th-century Mexican woman who suffered from a rare genetic disorder and became an international circus attraction due to her appearance. The podcast explores how societal fascination with "the different" led to decades of exploitation—both in life and death. Through the lens of Pastrana's story, Nieves Concostrina investigates broader issues of human cruelty, spectacle, and the macabre business of exhibiting the "other," alongside a reflection about how societies have dealt with human remains and their repatriation.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Spectacle of Difference

• Initial Context: The episode opens by connecting the exploitation of unusual physical traits to broader human tendencies—referencing historical practices such as exhibiting people in "zoos humanos" (human zoos).

  Nieves: “Esto de exhibir al diferente, ya sea negro o muy bajito, o… muy alto, una mujer con barba, o con enormes glúteos… todo esto se ha estado haciendo hasta bien entrado el siglo XX.” [03:00]

• Reflection on Exploitation: Many with "peculiarities" participated in these spectacles out of necessity, as there were limited ways to survive due to social rejection.

2. Who Was Julia Pastrana?

• Background: Born in Mexico, not Spain (a common misconception because she spoke Spanish, even perpetuated by Charles Darwin).

  “Esta mujer… era mexicana… aunque Charles Darwin escribió sobre ella… dijo que era española, que por eso hay mucha confusión…” [04:40]

• Physical Traits & Abilities: Suffered from hipertricosis (Ambras syndrome), resulting in excessive hair growth, with additional prominent features. Despite her appearance, she was highly talented—sang, danced, played guitar, and spoke three languages.

  “Tenía mucho pelo en general, y una mandíbula prominente… cinturita de avispa… cantaba extraordinariamente bien, bailaba aún mejor, tocaba la guitarra con mucho arte…” [01:50]

3. Art, Science, and the Objectification of Unusual Bodies

• Paintings: Nieves describes famous artworks depicting bearded women, like "Magdalena Ventura con su marido" by José de Ribera, commissioned for their rarity—an early version of showcasing difference.

  “Búscalo porque es muy curioso de ver… Se ve un matrimonio, la de la barba de ella está mucho más poblada que la de su marido…” [05:22]

• Difference between Hipertricosis and Hirsutismo: Both genetic conditions but distinct (though left to dermatologists to explain in depth).

4. Trajectory of a Life Exploited

• Life Story and Exploitation: Julia married her manager, toured Europe as "la indescriptible", and upon her and her infant son’s early deaths (both died of puerperal fever), her husband had both bodies embalmed to continue exhibiting them for profit.

  “Julia Pastrana acabó casándose con uno de los empresarios que la exhibía... El niño también murió, pero como el marido quiso… encargó a un forense… que preparara los cuerpos para así poder seguir exhibiéndolos.” [09:34–10:19]

5. A Fateful Afterlife: Theft, Dissection, and Repatriation

• Post-Mortem Exploitation:

  • Corpses confiscated by Nazis during WWII for exhibit and fundraising.
  • After decades of being passed between owners, the remains were neglected, abandoned, stolen, and desecrated.
  • Eventually secured in Oslo’s Institute of Forensic Medicine, though severely deteriorated.

• Return to Mexico:

  • The Mexican government requested repatriation; Norwegian authorities established strict conditions—coffin not to be opened, measures for secure burial.
  • Julia was finally buried in Culiacán, Sinaloa, in 2013, more than 150 years after her death with much official ceremony but also political overtones.

  “Por fin, después de mucha deliberación, se aprobó que los restos de Julia Pastrana volaran a México... recibió sepultura ante representantes políticos, culturales y científicos. Montaron un numerito parecido al que montaron con el Negro de Bañoles…” [11:43]

  • A tissue sample was retained for further genetic study, with an international project to sequence her genome.

6. The Wider Issue of Human Remains and Repatriation

• Restitution Committees: Norway and other countries (Sweden, UK, US) have formal processes or laws for returning human remains, especially in response to past abuses.

  “En Reino Unido… regularon por ley la devolución de… restos ancestrales. En Estados Unidos también hay una ley…” [13:15]

• Critique: Nieves questions the morality and bureaucracy of holding on to remains that don't belong to them and the imposition of conditions for repatriation.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Human Nature:

  “El género humano… no somos buena gente, por acción o por inacción, pero no lo somos.” — Nieves [03:30]

• On Julia Pastrana’s Talents Despite Exploitation:

  “Además de ser culta y de hablar tres idiomas, era una magnífica bailarina, tocaba muy bien la guitarra y tenía una voz de mezzo soprano, que es que nadie entendía de dónde salía eso.” — Nieves [08:50]

• On the Perpetual Movement of Julia’s Body:

  “La pobre Julia… no pudo estar tranquila durante 153 años.” — Nieves [01:52]

• On Repatriation and Bureaucracy:

  “No creo yo que haya mucho que estudiar. Si tienes un muerto que no es tuyo y encima lo tratas de mala manera, pues lo devuelves y ya está.” — Nieves [11:50]

• Historical Irony Regarding Human Remains:

  “Es que estos no paran de devolver restos humanos.” — Nieves [13:55]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|-------| | 00:04–01:37 | Opening, context, introduction of Julia Pastrana | | 01:37–04:25 | Historical context: exhibiting difference, human zoos | | 04:25–07:05 | Julia’s diagnosis, confusion about origins, bearded women in art | | 07:05–09:20 | Human "curiosities" in collections and art | | 09:20–10:35 | Julia’s personal life, talents, marriage, and death | | 10:35–11:43 | Post-mortem exploitation and movement of remains | | 11:43–13:06 | Repatriation to Mexico, conditions set by Norway, genetic study | | 13:06–14:20 | Restitution of human remains: international perspectives |

Takeaway

The episode offers an unflinching look at the ways in which "difference" has historically been commodified, from aristocratic curiosity to grotesque commercial spectacle and ultimately, to scientific object. Through Julia Pastrana’s long ordeal—both in life and in over a century of unquiet death—the conversation raises uncomfortable questions about the nature of compassion, respect, and historical accountability, using both sharp critique and dark humor, true to the tone and style of Nieves Concostrina.