Podcast Summary: Todo Concostrina – "Muere Leonardo, Francia conserva la Gioconda pero pierde al artista"

Podcast: Todo Concostrina
Host: Nieves Concostrina
Co-Host/Interviewer: Marta
Date: May 2, 2024
Duration (content): ~13 minutes
Theme: The fate of Leonardo da Vinci after his death—how France kept the Mona Lisa but lost track of Leonardo himself

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode, hosted by Nieves Concostrina with Marta, dissects the curious history of Leonardo da Vinci's death and posthumous legacy in France. While Leonardo's iconic painting, La Gioconda (Mona Lisa), has been carefully preserved and claimed as part of French cultural patrimony, the actual whereabouts of Leonardo’s remains are shrouded in doubt and ambiguity. The episode leans into Concostrina’s trademark historical irreverence and critical wit, tackling the myths, business interests, and mishaps that have resulted in this peculiar state of affairs.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why is La Gioconda in France?

• Cultural Ownership vs. Origin:
  • Despite both Leonardo and his supposed model (Lisa Gherardini) being Florentines, the Mona Lisa has never really left France since it arrived with Leonardo.
  • After over 500 years, "la Gioconda va más francesa ya que la torre Eiffel" ("The Gioconda is now more French than the Eiffel Tower.") – Nieves [01:00]
• Historical Context:
  • Leonardo was brought to France under the patronage of King Francis I, who became a major Renaissance art supporter as a sort of consolation for not becoming Holy Roman Emperor.

2. The Fate of Leonardo’s Remains

• French vs. Italian Treatment of Genius:
  • Concostrina draws a parallel between forgotten artists in Spain and France. While monarchs and nobility have clearly marked tombs, the resting places of famous creators like Leonardo have often fallen into oblivion.
  • "Francia ha perdido a Leonardo, pues lo mismo que España ha perdido a Cervantes, a Lope de Vega..." (“France has lost Leonardo, just like Spain lost track of Cervantes, Lope de Vega…”) – Nieves [03:14]
• Tourism and the ‘Fake’ Tomb:
  • The alleged Da Vinci tomb at Château d’Amboise is a tourist magnet (€32 route ticket).
  • "Si reconocieran que ahí dentro no está Leonardo da Vinci, pues lo mismo se desinflaba un poquito el negocio" ("If they admitted that Leonardo isn't inside, the business might deflate a little.") – Nieves [03:46]

3. The Mishap of the Tomb

• Not the Original Tomb:
  • Leonardo was first buried at the now-destroyed church of St. Florentin, Amboise—his current supposed tomb is only a likely tourist relic.
  • "Es solo la tumba turística." ("It's just the tourist tomb.") – Marta [04:47]
• Details of the Burial Mishap:
  • Originally buried in 1519 in a provisional location, then moved three months later (not a mysterious ritual but logistics).
  • In the 19th century, St. Florentin’s ruins were scavenged, and bones (possibly his) were moved with little science to the current grave.
• Skepticism About Authenticity:
  • The historian Eugene Munch and writer Arsène Usab’s 1863 search for Da Vinci’s remains was little more than guesswork.
  • "¿Veo yo la antropología física muy avanzada en 1863? No lo sé..." (“Do I see physical anthropology as being very advanced in 1863? I don’t think so…”) – Nieves [10:58]

4. Modern Attempts to Verify the Remains

• Requests for Scientific Testing:
  • Modern (2005) requests by scientists to do carbon-14 dating and DNA comparison have been flatly denied.
  • Motivation for refusal seems tied to the lucrative tourism; unveiling the truth could threaten the myth and thus the commerce.
  • "¿Cómo iban a dejar investigar los supuestos huesos de Leonardo si hay una casi total seguridad de que no son suyos?" (“How could they allow research on the supposed bones of Leonardo, if they’re almost certain they aren’t his?”) – Nieves [12:23]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Mona Lisa’s "French-ness":
  "Después de 500 años allí, la Gioconda va más francesa ya que la torre Eiffel."
  – Nieves Concostrina [01:00]

• On the fate of Leonardo’s remains:
  "Francia ha perdido a Leonardo, pues lo mismo que España ha perdido a Cervantes, a Lope de Vega, a Quevedo…"
  – Nieves Concostrina [03:14]

• On the ambiguity and tourist business:
  "Reconozco que no hay pruebas de que haya nada, nada de Leonardo en esa tumba… pero sí aseguro que hay que ser muy, muy optimista y muy, muy confiado para creer que lo hay."
  – Nieves Concostrina [03:38]

• On 19th-century "forensic" efforts:
  "Este señor estuvo buscando a Leonardo y… entresacando los que creía huesos del artista entre las ruinas del interior de la iglesia, pero ya hemos dicho… que fue enterrado en el claustro, no en la iglesia. O sea que no sabemos de quién eran los huesos…"
  – Nieves Concostrina [11:09]

• On the refusal to allow scientific study:
  "Uno de los principales atractivos del castillo es hacerse la foto en la tumba de Leonardo, ¿cómo van a correr el riesgo de que se descubra que ahí no está Leonardo?"
  – Nieves Concostrina [12:43]

Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:00] – Why the Mona Lisa is in France, and not Italy
• [03:12] – Comparing forgotten artists' tombs in Spain and France
• [03:46] – The business of Da Vinci’s supposed tomb
• [04:57] – Leonardo’s move to France and his final years
• [07:31] – The confusion over his burial and how the story got complicated
• [10:58] – The 19th-century "recovery" of his remains, skepticism about the process
• [11:56] – Modern failed attempts to examine the remains

Tone & Style

The discussion is punctuated by Neives Concostrina’s wry, irreverent humor and clear-eyed skepticism toward historical myths and the commercialization of legacy. The friendly rapport between her and Marta keeps the tone lively and accessible, making complex history both engaging and easy to follow.

In Short

France preserved the Mona Lisa but quite possibly lost the artist himself, all while commercializing a mystery that science could easily solve—if only it wouldn’t hurt the business.