Podcast Summary

Podcast: Todo Concostrina | SER Podcast
Episode: Acontece que no es poco | ¿Qué han hecho los indios por nosotros? Xocolatl, tomatl y tizones encendidos…
Date: April 4, 2024
Host: Nieves Concostrina

Main Theme

This episode explores the profound impact of indigenous American cultures on European diets and habits following the Columbian exchange, focusing on chocolate (cacao) and tobacco. With her signature sharp wit, Nieves Concostrina examines how foods and vices from the “Indies” transformed European high society, challenged religious doctrine, and often faced early suspicion, prejudice, or outright condemnation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: What Have the “Indians” Done For Us?

[00:18]

• The host humorously introduces the theme, drawing a parallel with the “Monty Python: Life of Brian” sketch about the Romans (“¿Qué han hecho los romanos por nosotros?”), this time asking:

  “¿Qué han hecho los indios por nosotros, al menos en la parte culinaria, además de la tortilla de patata, el gazpacho, el tabaco, el pan de maíz, la coca, el pavo asado y el chocolate, ¿Qué han hecho?” – Nieves, [01:34]

• She points out that many European staples—potatoes, tomatoes, chocolate—were introduced thanks to the American “Indies”, revolutionizing diets and vices in Europe.
• Noted irony: What was once considered “savage” became high society’s obsession (e.g., chocolate as a status symbol, tobacco as a social habit).

2. The Introduction of Chocolate to Europe

[03:11]

• Columbus brought back cacao without understanding its value or preparation (“No se trajo la receta”).
• Indigenous cultures (Mayas, Mexicas, Olmecas) prized xocolatl; Spaniards initially found it repugnant:

  “Un cronista italiano, Girolamo Benzoni, llegó a escribir que el chocolate parecía una bebida para cerdos más que para ser consumida por la humanidad.” – Host 1, [03:56]

• For the Spanish, used to different flavors, its bitterness and appearance (“parecía que manchaba los labios de sangre”) were unappealing.
• Chocolate’s role as an aphrodisiac, energy drink, and even currency among Mesoamerican peoples.

3. From Sacred Ritual to European High Society

[04:27]

• Chocolate was initially used in indigenous rituals by chamanes and consumed in ceremonies.
• For Europeans, it eventually became a fashionable drink in palaces and monasteries.
• Hernán Cortés recognized its energy-boosting effects and introduced chocolate to Carlos V, accelerating its spread.
• Early European chocolatiers were Cistercians. Jesuits opposed it, arguing it was “contrario a los preceptos de mortificación y pobreza.” – [06:05]

  “Lo que les mosqueaba es que al ser bebido, al ser líquido, el chocolate se podía tomar en los periodos de ayuno obligatorio. Y eso no eran maneras aceptadas de sufrir.” – Host 1, [06:27]

4. Chocolate, Religion, and the “Sinfulness” of American Imports

[07:09]

• Discussion on how religious orders tried to police pleasure through diet—eliminating sweets and nutritious foods under the guise of spiritual discipline.
• Example: The Oropesa sect, founded by Jesuit Luis María Mendizábal, removed sugar to keep young women docile (“tengan la cabeza muy floja y no tengan voluntad”). – Nieves, [08:28]
• Cardinale Brancaccio’s 17th-century ruling allowed liquid chocolate during fasting:

  “El líquido no infringe el ayuno.” – [09:22]

5. Other “Sinful” American Imports: Tomato, Potato, Tobacco

[09:26]

• Suspicion around new American crops; potatoes fed to livestock, tomatoes (tomatl) regarded as “impure.”
• Tobacco was seen as the most “pecaminoso”:

  “Hubo cierta alarma en el pueblo y algunos de sus paisanos denunciaron a este hombre ante la Inquisición por hacer brujería.” – Host 1, on Rodrigo de Jerez, [11:15]

• Tobacco’s spread: first observed by Columbus, described in his notes, and quickly making its way from Cuba to Spain with Rodrigo de Jerez.

  “La Inquisición estuvo de acuerdo en que aquello era cosa del demonio y lo metieron en la cárcel. 7 años de cárcel por fumar.” – Host 1, [11:30]

6. Tobacco’s Meteoric Rise

[12:04]

• Despite early moral panic, tobacco spread rapidly throughout Europe—no other habit propagated as fast.
• Within two centuries, it was widely used and even justified by churchmen (“libraba a los religiosos de la tentación de la carne” – [12:55]).
• Churches were so filled with smoke, canon law prohibited smoking during mass.

  “Mejor que fumen y no toquen niños.” – Host 1, [13:04]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On American crops revolutionizing European cuisine:

  “Y a ver cómo te haces un pisto sin pimiento o un gazpacho sin tomate.” – Nieves, [02:30]

• On religious attitudes toward chocolate:

  “El chocolate al ser líquido, estaba permitido, pero a la vez era energético y era un alimento muy nutritivo y sabía rico … eso era un mojón de ayuno.” – Host 1, [07:02]
  “El ayuno es para provocar debilidad mental y física. Así eres más manejable, piensas menos y piensas mejor.” – Host 1, [07:20]

• On the arrival of tobacco:

  “Colón no lo vio, pero escribe lo que le contaron dos de sus hombres, … que allá donde paraban … les daban un tizón para que lo chuparan. Cuando volvieron … ya iban fumando como carreteros estos dos.” – Host 1, [10:29]

• On first Spaniard jailed for smoking:

  “La Inquisición estuvo de acuerdo en que aquello era cosa del demonio y lo metieron en la cárcel. 7 años de cárcel por fumar.” – Host 1, [11:30]

• On the church’s shifting stance toward tobacco:

  “Las iglesias estaban llenas de humo, pero muchos no aguantaban una misa de dos horas sin salir a fumar a la mitad.” – Host 1, [12:45]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:18 – Introduction and theme
• 01:34 – “¿Qué han hecho los indios por nosotros?”
• 03:11 – Columbus and the first cacao in Europe
• 04:27 – Chocolate in indigenous culture and European spread
• 06:25 – Religious debates: Jesuits and chocolate
• 07:09 – Religion, fasting, and food control
• 08:28 – The Oropesa sect and sugar prohibition
• 09:26 – The sinfulness of American imports: potatoes, tomatoes, tobacco
• 10:02 – First Spanish encounters with tobacco
• 11:15 – Rodrigo de Jerez and the Inquisition
• 12:04 – Tobacco’s spread in Europe, churches, and culture
• 13:04-13:11 – Church, tobacco, and concluding banter

Overall Tone

Nieves Concostrina maintains an irreverent, satirical, and witty style throughout—exposing contradictions, mocking ecclesiastical dogma, and giving credit to indigenous cultures for their underestimated contributions to European life.

For Listeners

This episode is a fast-paced, humorous, and enlightening look at how indigenous American foods and vices fundamentally altered European societies, often overcoming fierce resistance by tradition, religion, and ignorance. It’s history with a bite, and a distinctly Concostrina flavor.