Podcast Summary: Todo Concostrina - Acontece que no es poco

Episode: Verano de 1749: Un plan para extinguir a los gitanos
Date: June 5, 2023
Host: Nieves Concostrina
Podcast: SER Podcast

Overview

In this episode of "Acontece que no es poco," Nieves Concostrina uses her signature candid and critical style to explore a darkly overlooked episode in Spanish history: the 1749 plan orchestrated by the Marquis of the Ensenada to extinguish the Romani (gitano) population in Spain. The episode draws parallels between current incidents of racism—referencing footballer Vinicius Jr. and contemporary debates—and Spain's persistent, institutionalized racism, emphasizing the importance of historical context for understanding present attitudes. This episode is part one of a two-part exploration, focusing on the background, historical context, and the main figures involved.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Contemporary Racism vs. Historical Racism

• The conversation opens with a nod to recent racist incidents in Spain, particularly around Vinicius Jr., the Brazilian footballer subjected to racist abuse, and how this has forced the country to confront ongoing racism.
  • Quote: "No solo en los campos de fútbol, sino en el día a día de muchas personas... en España, como en tantos otros países, hay racismo, lo hay y hay que combatirlo." [00:49] (Speaker B)
  • Nieves notes the disproportionate outrage over celebrity cases compared to daily or less publicized acts of racism affecting vulnerable groups.

2. The Plan to Extinguish the Gitanos (1749)

• Main Theme: In the summer of 1749, Spanish authorities executed a well-documented, systematic plan not just to expel, but to erase the Romani people from Spain.
  • Quote: “Un plan para extinguir a los gitanos, para acabar con toda la etnia y que no quedara ni un gitano.” [01:33] (Nieves Concostrina)
  • The event is heavily documented but rarely discussed due to the shame it brings upon national institutions (monarchy, church, politics) and collective identity.
• Nieves highlights the importance of facing uncomfortable truths about national history rather than glossing over or mythologizing them.
  • Quote: “Yo creo que si sabemos de dónde venimos, entenderemos mejor dónde estamos.” [03:49] (Nieves)

3. Who Engineered the Plan? The Marquis of the Ensenada

• The chief architect of this plan was Zenón de Somodevilla, the Marquis of the Ensenada, a figure studied in schools mainly for his naval accomplishments.
  • Quote: "Era un señor que se estudia un ratito en el bachillerato para ensalzar su gran logro, que fue construir una gran armada..." [04:34] (Nieves)
• Despite his commemorations (such as statues in La Rioja), he is little known for his racist policies.

4. Labor, Slavery, and the Expansion of the Armada

• To build his naval forces, Ensenada needed vast labor, which he found by enslaving prisoners and so-called “vagos y maleantes”—a category extended arbitrarily to include Romani men.
  • Quote: “En esos vagos y maleantes incluyó a los hombres gitanos. No estamos hablando que hubieran hecho nada, simplemente eran gitanos y los incluyó ahí.” [07:34] (Nieves)
• Romani men resisted forced labor and attempted escape, prompting the infamous plan for their "extinction.”

5. Historical Roots: Arrival and Repression of the Gitanos

• The Romani people arrived in Spain from India via areas like Turkey, entering the Iberian Peninsula around 1420. Initially welcomed as Christian refugees fleeing Islamic persecution, they were soon met with suspicion for their refusal to settle or assimilate.
• By 1499, the Catholic Monarchs issued the first laws forcing gitanos to settle and adopt recognized trades, under threat of expulsion or enslavement. Over 250 anti-Romani decrees followed under subsequent monarchs.
  • Quote: “Ya no hubo un solo rey desde entonces que no promulgara alguna ley contra ellos.” [11:14] (Nieves)

6. Mechanics of Ensenada's Plan: Extinction by Separation

• The plan was not just about killing; it was systematic separation—men and women imprisoned apart, kept from procreating, to “let the last one die out.”
  • Quote: “Se trataba de encerrarlos, separarlos por sexos, mantenerlos siempre separados para evitar que procrearan y así hasta que muriera el último gitano y la última gitana y la etnia se extinguiera en España.” [12:01] (Nieves)
• The church, monarchy, and papacy all sanctioned the action. Key allies included the king’s confessor, the bishop of Oviedo (also president of the Council of Castile), and a cardinal who arranged papal support to withdraw church sanctuary for the Romani.

7. Religious and Legal Support for Atrocity

• The marquis secured the king’s approval by arguing the measure was not only expedient but pleasing to God, obtaining unambiguous ecclesiastical and legislative support.
  • Quote: "El confesor del rey... le dijo a Fernando VI que Dios se alegraría, y abro comillas, si el rey lograse extinguir a esta gente." [13:03] (Nieves)
• In one night, 9,000 Romani were rounded up and separated; the episode’s next part promises to detail the aftermath.

Memorable Quotes

• On institutional racism:

  • “Ocultamos hechos y maquillamos personajes que nos han convertido en una sociedad mediocre, intolerante e insolidaria, pero creyéndonos que somos todo lo contrario, que somos geniales.” [03:21] — Nieves Concostrina

• On the marquis’ contradictory legacy:

  • “También lo podían haber puesto pisando el cuello a un gitano y entonces se habrían destacado sus dos grandes logros.” [06:54] — Nieves

• On religious complicity:

  • “Dios lleva diciendo la misma cosa y la contraria desde que lo inventaron. Dios es un contradios en sí mismo.” [12:39] — Nieves

• On the scale of the roundup:

  • “Detuvieron a 9 mil en una sola noche y las noches siguientes.” [14:15] — Nieves

Important Timestamps

• 00:49 – Opening discussion on contemporary racism in Spain referencing Vinicius Jr. and broad patterns.
• 01:33 – Introduction to the 1749 plan to extinguish the Romani.
• 04:34 – Background on the Marquis of the Ensenada.
• 07:34 – Use of forced labor and expansion of “vagos y maleantes” category.
• 08:54 – Summary of Romani migration to Spain and early reception.
• 10:53 – Introduction of the long arc of legal repression against the Romani, starting with the Catholic Monarchs.
• 12:01 – Details of the “extinction plan” separating men and women.
• 13:03 – Religious and governmental collusion in the plan.
• 14:15 – The mass seizure of the Romani and preview of the next episode.

Tone and Style

Nieves Concostrina delivers the episode with her trademark blend of critical humor, blunt honesty, and discomfort with self-congratulatory national myths. The dialogue flows conversationally between host and co-host, often interspersed with biting asides and historical context.

Conclusion

This episode sets the stage for a deep dive into one of the most shocking and under-discussed instances of institutionalized racism in Spanish history, the 1749 plan against the Romani people. By emphasizing historical patterns of prejudice and drawing uncomfortable parallels with the present, Nieves Concostrina challenges listeners to confront and understand Spain's legacy of intolerance beyond sanitized national narratives.