Podcast Summary: "Cualquier tiempo pasado fue anterior | El moribundo Panteón de España"

Podcast: Todo Concostrina (Cadena SER)
Host: Nieves Concostrina
Date: May 28, 2023
Theme: The complex, often chaotic history of Spain's attempts to create a national Panteón de Hombres Ilustres (Pantheon of Illustrious Men), with comparisons to similar institutions in other countries and a critical look at how Spain has honored (or failed to honor) its eminent citizens.

Overview

In this episode, Nieves Concostrina delves into the tumultuous history of Spain’s national pantheon project—a place meant to honor the country's most distinguished figures. Through her trademark wit and critical perspective, she examines why Spain’s efforts have repeatedly failed, contrasting them with the impressive pantheons of France, Italy, and the UK, and reflecting on how politics, mismanagement, and the influence of the Church have consistently undermined the project.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Dream (and Fiasco) of a Spanish Pantheon

• First Attempt (1837): After the secularization of church property, the San Francisco el Grande church in Madrid was earmarked as the Panteón Nacional, following models like the Santa Croce in Florence and Westminster Abbey in London.
  • Quote: “Lo que mal empieza, mal acaba. El Panteón de Hombres Ilustres español ha sido un sueño largamente acariciado por varios gobiernos... pero ninguno supo hacerlo.” — Nieves Concostrina [02:02]
• Comedic Bureaucracy: The authorities tried to collect remains of illustrious figures across Spain (and beyond), often met with resistance—and, more embarrassingly, frequently couldn’t find the actual remains they were seeking.
  • Quote: “¿Por qué demonios lo defendían tanto?... Nadie tenía ni idea de dónde estaba o a dónde había ido a parar.” — Nieves Concostrina [05:05]
  • Failed searches included Luis Vives (Brujas), Antonio Pérez (París), Cervantes, Lope de Vega, Velázquez, and others. “No obtuvo más que la triste certidumbre de que todos ellos estaban definitivamente perdidos.” [06:54]
• Desolado Proyecto: Many of the “illustrious” bones came from dubious sources or were just symbolic relics, not actual remains. The interest in the project faded quickly.
  • “Así allí quedaron arrumbados y cogiendo polvo las cajas con los pocos ilustres que pudieron localizar y con la certeza de que alguno era incluso un farsante.” [08:45]

2. The Second (and Third...) Wave: Stillborn Projects

• New Monument (Late 19th Century): The Queen Regent María Cristina pushed for a new site near Atocha, with spectacular (and expensive) architecture by Fernando Arbós.
  • "Todo aquello costó una pasta de dinero público... Bueno, pues ¿A que no adivinan quién se lo fue quedando todo con todo su morro? La multinacional católica, La Iglesia." [12:38]
• The building’s management was handed to the Dominican Order, who performed minimal maintenance. Over time, most of the site was essentially privatized by the Church, and even land was granted to build a private school (Colegio Virgen de Atocha).
  • Quote on clerical neglect: “Los dominicos pasaron de cumplir con sus obligaciones. Así que ciudades como Reus, como Bailén y como Zaragoza, nuestros muertos ilustres están allí malamente cuidados.” [15:57]
• A “Military and Political” Pantheon: The final result? A mausoleum for military and political figures—excluding artists, scientists, and intellectuals, reinforcing the long-standing marginalization of cultural figures.
  • "El panteón nacional no tenía intención de recibir ni a pintores, ni a escritores, ni a educadores, ni a científicos. Sólo a militares y políticos." [13:46]
• The inclusion of “liberales” was fraught, requiring pleadings to the monarch Alfonso XIII, who at first refused. [15:35]

3. Gender and Representation

• Absence of Women: Not one woman has an individual tomb in the Pantheon of Spain. This issue is emphasized during the discussion of the tombs by sculptor Mariano Benlliure.
  • “Esta fue la única manera casi de meter una mujer en este panteón en estos años.” — Ana Baltierra [24:50]
• Artistic Anecdote: Benlliure “snuck” a sculpted likeness of his wife, Lucrecia Arana, into his work for Sagasta’s tomb—making her, by subterfuge, one of the few women represented in the Pantheon.
  • “Benlliure la esculpió en más de una ocasión, entre ellas aquí, con la en este panteón androcéntrico.” [29:26]

4. Symbolism, Failure, and Modern Reflective Critique

• Contemporary Perspective: Interview with journalist and art historian Pello H. Riaño, who argues the pantheon is a failed 19th-century idea, unfit for present-day plural, federal Spain.
  • "Es una idea fracasada, es una idea del siglo XIX fracasada en España antes incluso de ser construida... El Panteón se concibe a imagen y semejanza de esa comunidad del siglo XIX en la que... todas las mujeres están excluidas. Pero es que luego además solamente caben o tienen cabida los militares y los políticos." [33:10]
  • Current governments, Riaño suggests, should abandon the failed pantheon model in favor of localized, plural approaches to commemoration. [34:14, 35:24]
• Democratizing Memory: The episode closes with a reflection on the importance of unearthing and dignifying the common dead of the Spanish Civil War, rather than fixating on honoring a narrow elite.
  • "Fíjate qué paradójico el momento en el que nos encontramos, donde no somos capaces de sacar libertad y con sosiego a nuestros muertos de las cunetas y al tiempo estamos pensando en generar un aparato simbólico para nuestros muertos ilustres." — Pello H. Riaño [40:48]
  • Nieves: "En un hipotético Panteón de España habría que ponerlos a estos dos [Casado y Feijóo] en el cuarto trastero." [41:53]

5. Regional Case: Galicia & Other Panteons

• Galicia’s Attempt: Explores the Panteón dos Galegos Ilustres in Santiago de Compostela, which, like its Madrid counterpart, has faced political, clerical, and legal obstacles.
  • Only six figures rest there—one woman, Rosalía de Castro. [44:09]
  • The controversial transfer of Castelao’s remains sparked protests against the perceived hypocrisy of those politicians honoring him who had previously vilified him. [45:42]
  • Ongoing conflict over control of the mausoleum’s civil or religious status further exemplifies Spain’s difficulties with secular, inclusive commemoration. [47:28]
• Other regional endeavors (Santander, León, Cádiz) are briefly mentioned, all struggling with similar issues, often becoming “another empty shell or a controversial mix of true and dubious ‘ilustres.’” [43:16]

Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “No hay en este desgraciado país profesión más intranquila, insegura e incómoda que la de difunto ilustre.” — Mariano de Cavia (cited by Nieves) [03:00]
• “Así allí quedaron arrumbados y cogiendo polvo las cajas con los pocos ilustres que pudieron localizar y con la certeza de que alguno era incluso un farsante.” — Nieves [08:45]
• “¿Qué clase de país, ya en el siglo XX, podía alumbrar un monumento nacional para sus ciudadanos relevantes, donde no tiene cabida la cultura? Luego, que si leyendas negras y que si tal y que si cual. La España cateta, sin más.” — Nieves [13:46]
• “El panteón nacional no tenía intención de recibir ni a pintores, ni a escritores, ni a educadores, ni a científicos. Sólo a militares y políticos.” — Nieves [13:46]
• “Esta fue la única manera casi de meter una mujer en este panteón en estos años.” — Ana Baltierra sobre la inclusión de la escultura de Lucrecia Arana [24:50]
• “Fíjate qué paradójico el momento en el que nos encontramos, donde no somos capaces de sacar libertad y con sosiego a nuestros muertos de las cunetas y al tiempo estamos pensando en generar un aparato simbólico para nuestros muertos ilustres.” — Pello H. Riaño [40:48]
• “La multinacional católica, la Iglesia, todo le fue generosamente regalado… Son unos depredadores insaciables.” — Nieves [12:44, 19:49]

Notable Segments (with Timestamps)

• [00:32] Origins and early misadventures of the pantheon
• [06:54] Frequently failed searches for illustrious remains
• [08:45] Abandonment and the absence of real interest
• [12:38] Construction of the new pantheon under María Cristina and its "secular" intention undermined by Church control
• [13:46] The military/political focus under Alfonso XIII and the exclusion of cultural figures
• [24:11] Ana Baltierra on Mariano Benlliure and the tomb of Sagasta—artistic anecdotes and the story of Lucrecia Arana in the Pantheon
• [32:38] Interview with Pello H. Riaño—symbolic failure and the arguments for a new model of remembrance
• [43:00] Examples of other pantheons in Spain (Galicia, Santander, León, Cádiz) and their fraught histories

Flow & Tone

The tone is critical, witty, and at times caustic—typical of Nieves Concostrina. She mixes deep historical research with irreverent humor, pointing out the absurdities of Spain’s attempts to imitate grand European pantheons while consistently undermining the project through bureaucracy, political short-sightedness, and clerical interference. The episode also champions more inclusive, democratized forms of remembrance, both in who Spain recognizes and how.

Conclusion

The Panteón de España is, in the eyes of the host and her guests, a national embarrassment—“nació muerto” (“born dead”). The episode uses its checkered history as a lens to examine broader Spanish issues: neglect of cultural heroes, enduring clerical influence, political opportunism, and a deep difficulty in developing inclusive national symbols. Ultimately, as Concostrina and Riaño reflect, perhaps it’s time for more meaningful ways to honor the country’s true “ilustres”—from writers and scientists to the victims of collective traumas still awaiting dignity and remembrance.

For Further Listening (Music & Recommendations)

• [21:39] Musical interlude: “Don’t Touch My Tomatoes” by Josephine Baker (recently honored in the Paris Pantheon)
• [50:41] Outro: “Do You Hear the People Sing?” from Les Misérables, in tribute to Victor Hugo, a celebrated resident of the Paris Pantheon

Recommended for:
Listeners interested in Spanish history, cultural memory, and those who enjoy sharp, critical storytelling with a historical twist.