Podcast Summary: "Cualquier tiempo pasado fue anterior | Sade, el marqués de la crueldad refinada"

Todo Concostrina · SER Podcast · January 28, 2024
Host: Nieves Concostrina
Key Contributors: Jesús Pozo, Emma Vallespinós, Ana Baltierra
Guest: Patricia Gutiérrez, clinical psychologist

Overview of the Episode

This episode of "Todo Concostrina" dives irreverently into the scandalous and complex life of Donatien Alphonse François de Sade, better known as the Marquis de Sade. With historical rigor and the program’s characteristic sharp humor, Nieves Concostrina explores the man whose name gave rise to the term "sadism"—his privileged upbringing, sexual excesses, critique of hypocrisy, and literary legacy. The episode also reflects on sexuality through the lens of art and contemporary education, drawing uncomfortable but necessary parallels between Sade's era and current issues.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Legacy and Context of the Marquis de Sade (00:13–21:10)

• Opening Image: Sade begins his infamous "Les 120 Journées de Sodome" in the Bastille, writing on a roll of paper in tiny script.
  • "Es ahora, querido lector, cuando tienes que preparar tu corazón y tu espíritu para el relato más impuro que haya sido creado desde que el mundo existe." – Sade, quoted by Jesús Pozo (00:51)
• Eponymous Sadism: The episode unpacks how ‘sadism’ entered common language and compares it to other problematic eponyms (Don Juan, Maquiavelo).
• France in the Age of Enlightenment: The atmosphere of rationalism, laicism, and burgeoning bourgeois values in which Sade grew up, and how it molded both his rebellion and his literary approach.
• Family & Education: Sade’s noble lineage, absentee parents, and especially the influence of his libertine cleric uncle, the Abbot Jacques de Sade.
  • “Un eclesiástico… dado a todos los placeres carnales imaginables. El abad daba misa por la mañana, tertulias por la tarde y por la noche su castillo era una juerga.” – Nieves Concostrina (06:20)
• Marriage & Sexual Exploits: Forced into a loveless marriage; Sade turns to an unrestrained search for pleasure.
  • “El joven Donatien se dio al sexo sin medida y con quien se terciara le daba igual el padre.” – Nieves Concostrina (09:36)
• Early Scandals & Hypocrisy: His first imprisonments were not for sexual acts (common in the aristocracy), but for their sacrilegious nature. Sade’s ultimate crime was his honesty in a hypocritical society.
  • “Sade lo admitía sin pedir perdón por ello, mientras los aristócratas y los obispos lo negaban y además señalaban a Sade como pervertido.” – Nieves Concostrina (05:32)
• Case of the "Poisoned Chocolates": Sade and his lackey Latour are sentenced to death for poisoning prostitutes with an aphrodisiac (cantaridina), escaping only because they fled.
• Imprisonment, Revolution, and Literary Output: Sade’s cycles of imprisonment, brief liberation during the Revolution, subsequent suspicions, and his final life and death in a mental institution under Napoleonic order.

2. Sade as Writer and Outsider (43:59–52:13)

• "Las 120 jornadas de Sodoma": One of the most notorious manuscripts in existence; written secretly in the Bastille.
  • “157.000 palabras volcadas en aquel rollo de papel a lo largo de 37 días y escribiendo entre las 7 pm y las 10 pm cuando los carceleros de la Bastilla no pudieran descubrirlo.” – Nieves Concostrina (44:04)
• The Manuscript's Fate: Hidden in the prison walls, only to be discovered after the storming of the Bastille (14 July 1789).
• Content: Four powerful men indulge in months of violence and excess with kidnapped victims, leading to a notorious reputation.
  • “Las 120 jornadas de Sodoma cuenta la historia de cuatro ricachones pervertidos… No hay que dejar de decir que el libro del Marqués de Sade empieza con un argumento ordenado. Y eso, la verdad, acaba siendo un festival gore sin orden ni concierto.” – Nieves Concostrina (46:39)
• The Scandal and Temptation of Censorship: The more the book was denounced, the more people wanted to read it.
• Memorable quote on comparisons: “El Marqués de Sade era un carmelita descalzo comparado con Hitler y Netanyahu.” – Nieves Concostrina (45:36)

3. Artistic Perversion: Paul Gauguin in Tahiti (24:01–32:12)

• Art and Sexuality Section: Ana Baltierra discusses Gauguin’s notorious sexual behavior and exploitation of teenage girls in Tahiti — a colonial, gendered version of hypocrisy.
  • “Allí se instaló en 1891… sexo a espuertas con varias mujeres adolescentes de unos trece, catorce años.” – Ana Baltierra (24:48)
• Gauguin’s Illness & Colonial Immorality: Knowing he had syphilis, he continued relationships, purposefully exposing girls to the disease. The colonial system normalized such predations.
• “Vaïne” Marriages and Exploitation: Tahitian families would arrange child-wives for European men in exchange for food or status.
• Gauguin's Myth vs. History: His self-portrayal as a romantic exile in Noa Noa obscures the predatory nature of his real behavior.

4. Sex Education, Past and Present (32:36–43:44)

• Interview with Patricia Gutiérrez:
  • The essential difference between sex (the act) and sexual education (affectivity, consent, desire, pleasure).
    • “La educación sexual no es sexo… es la afectividad, es el consentimiento, son los placeres, es el deseo, es el explorar tu propio cuerpo…” – Patricia Gutiérrez (32:55)
  • Early curiosity and touching in children is exploratory, not sexual in the adult sense.
  • The risks of leaving children/teens uninformed: misinformation, unsafe behaviors, exposure to pornography as a template for sexuality.
    • “Si no les hablamos… se pueden ir a fuentes directamente de la filmografía, de fuentes pornográficas…” – Patricia Gutiérrez (36:17)
  • Stresses the need for education in values, affective maturity, and realistic models of consent and pleasure.
  • Critique of current sex education: too focused on biology, disease, and fear; neglecting affective and emotional development.
    • “No puede ser la política del miedo la que acompaña a nuestros jóvenes…” – Patricia Gutiérrez (40:35)
  • Issues in religious, ultraconservative, or segregated schooling: perpetuate fear and ignorance rather than true sex education.
  • Teachers themselves need better training to respond to students’ questions.

5. Modern Reflections: Media, Series, and Music (52:13–56:39)

• Sex Education in Pop Culture: Emma Vallespinós recommends the Netflix series "Sex Education" for teens and parents, praising its honest take on sexuality, orientation, identity, and consent.
  • “La serie… habla sin tapujos deseo, masturbación, homosexualidad, transexualidad, diversidad, discapacidad y agresiones sexuales y de amor.” – Emma Vallespinós (52:37)
• Musical Closure: The episode closes with Ezra Furman’s "Love You So Bad," a personal anthem fitting with the episode’s themes of desire, rebellion, and growing up.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Hypocrisy:
  • “El Marqués de Sade hacía en sus escritos una profunda crítica al orden moral… Él se lo saltaba todo, pero además lo reconocía y no se arrepentía. Y eso le diferenciaba de quienes hacían lo mismo que él, pero que lo negaban.” – Nieves Concostrina (04:49)
• On Literary Legacy vs. Moral Panic:
  • “Las 120 jornadas de Sodoma es para algunos bibliófilos, una de las novelas más importantes jamás escritas. El Evangelio del mal, lo llaman otros… Pero yo insisto, el Marqués de Sade era un carmelita descalzo comparado con Hitler y Netanyahu.” – Nieves Concostrina (45:35)
• On Education:
  • “Tenemos que hacer una educación en valores, tenemos que acompañarles a que ganen maduración emocional para estar preparados para mantener relaciones sexuales… facilitándole el máximo de recursos.” – Patricia Gutiérrez (39:11)
• On Modern Pop Culture’s Role:
  • “La serie, que no es apta para adultos mojigatos, habla sin tapujos deseo, masturbación, homosexualidad, transexualidad diversidad, discapacidad y agresiones sexuales y de amor.” – Emma Vallespinós (52:37)

Important Timestamps

• 00:13–11:09 – Sade’s family, upbringing, first scandals, and the cultural climate of 18th-century France.
• 11:09–21:10 – Early scandals, hypocrisy, poisoned chocolates, escape, and cycles of imprisonment.
• 24:01–32:12 – Paul Gauguin’s sexual behavior in Tahiti and its colonial context.
• 32:36–43:44 – Interview on sexual education: challenges, misconceptions, and the value of affective education.
• 43:59–52:13 – The legacy of “Las 120 jornadas de Sodoma,” its discovery, and why the work matters.
• 52:13–end – Reflections on “Sex Education” series and musical closer.

Tone & Style

Sharp, witty, and irreverent, the program balances historical rigor with accessible, contemporary analogies and a touch of social critique. Concostrina and her team do not shy away from confronting hypocrisy and drawing uncomfortable parallels with today’s society.

In short:
This episode is an incisive journey through the life and times of the Marquis de Sade, illuminating not only the roots of “sadism” but also the persistent hypocrisy, fascination with sexual taboo, and ongoing challenges around sex education, both in art and in real life.