← Tony Mantor: Why Not Me ?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me ?
Dan Franklin: empowering Autism through awareness and understanding
00:28:35
Dan Franklin talks about his autistic lived experiences and his journey. He talks about how the system needs and what needs to be addressed to gain more autism awareness and understanding throughout the world.
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- [00:00]
Liberty Mutual Announcer
Liberty Mutual customizes your car and home insurance and now we're customizing this rush hour ad to keep you calm, which could help your driving. And science says therapy is great for a healthy mindset. So enjoy this 14 second session on us. I think you've done everything right and absolutely nothing wrong. In fact, anything that hasn't gone your way could probably be blamed on your father not being emotionally available because his father wasn't emotionally available and so on. And now that you're calm and healing, you're probably driving better too.
- [00:27]
Dan Franklin
Liberty. Liberty.
- [00:28]
Tony Mantour
Liberty.
- [00:29]
Dan Franklin
Liberty.
- [00:31]
Home Depot Announcer
Spring Black Friday is on at the Home Depot. Save on grills and patio sets that will be sure to bring your hosting game up a notch. Fire up your feast with help from the Home Depot and save on grills like the next grill four burner propane gas grill was $249. Now in special buy for one 99 or give everyone the best seat in the yard with the Hampton bay Mayfield park four piece conversation set for only $399. Save on grills and patio sets with low prices guaranteed during Spring Black Friday only at the Home Depot now through April 22nd while supplies last exclusion supplies seehomedepot.com Pricematch for details.
- [01:05]
Gatorade Announcer
You do it all so why not get all the electrolytes hydrate better than water with new Gatorade lower sugar now with no artificial flavors, sweeteners or colors and 75% less sugar than regular Gatorade. New to the fridge. All the Gatorade electrolytes you love. Gatorade lowers sugar. Is it in you? Now available nationwide.
- [01:36]
Tony Mantour
Welcome to why Not Me? Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide hosted by Tony Mantour, broadcasting from the heart of Music City usa, Nashville, Tennessee. Join us as our guests share their raw, powerful stories. Some will spark laughter, others will move you to tears. These real life journeys inspire, connect and remind you that you're never alone. We're igniting a global movement to empower everyone to make a lasting difference by fostering deep awareness, unwavering acceptance and profound understanding of autism and mental health. Tune in, be inspired and join us in transforming the world one story at a time. Hi, I'm Tony Mantour. Welcome to why Not Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide. Joining us today is Dan Franklin. He's a passionate autism advocate with 31 years of lived experience. He brings deep personal insight and extensive self driven research to conversations about the full autism spectrum. Gifted with a sharp, thoughtful mind, he speaks candidly about autistic wiring, trauma responses, masking, scripting, burnout, sensory processing and the realities of navigating a world built built for neurotypicals. His mission is clear to push for meaningful mandatory autism education across society so autistic individuals are understood, accommodated and respected, not misinterpreted or overlooked. He has a wealth of information. So before we dive into our episode, we'll be back with an uninterrupted show right after a word from our sponsors.
- [03:27]
Liberty Mutual Announcer
Liberty Mutual customizes your car and home insurance. And now we're customizing this rush hour ad to keep you calm, which could help your driving. And science says therapy is great for a healthy mindset. So enjoy this 14 second session on us. I think you've done everything right and absolutely nothing wrong. In fact, anything that hasn't gone your way could probably be blamed on your father not being emotionally available because his father wasn't emotionally available, and so on. And now that you're calm and healing, you're probably driving better too.
- [03:54]
Dan Franklin
Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty.
- [03:57]
Home Depot Announcer
Spring Black Friday is on at the Home Depot. Save on grills and patio sets that will be sure to bring your hosting game up a notch. Fire up your feast with help from the Home Depot and save on grills like the next grill 4 burner propane gas grill was $249 now in special buy for $199 or give everyone the best seat in the yard with the Hampton bay Mayfield park four piece conversation set for only $399. Save on grills and patio sets with low prices guaranteed during Spring Black Friday only at the Home Depot now through April 22nd while supplies last exclusion supplies. Seehomedepot.com Pricematch for details.
- [04:32]
Gatorade Announcer
You do it all so why not get all the electrolytes hyd than water with new Gatorade lower sugar now with no artificial flavors, sweeteners or colors and 75% less sugar than regular Gatorade. New to the fridge, all the Gatorade electrolytes you love. Gatorade lowers sugar. Is it in you? Now available nationwide, this message is brought
- [04:57]
Capital One Announcer
to you by the Capital One Venture X Card. Venture X offers the premium benefits you expect, like a $300 annual Capital One travel credit for less than you expect. Elevate your Earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, bringing you one step closer to your next dream destination. Plus, enjoy access to over 1000 airport lounges worldwide. The Capital One Venture X Card what's in your wallet? Terms apply. Lounge access is subject to change. See capitalone.com for details.
- [05:27]
Tony Mantour
Thanks for joining us today.
- [05:28]
Dan Franklin
Yes, thank you very much.
- [05:30]
Tony Mantour
Oh, it's My pleasure. So if you would give us a little information on what you do to advocate for autism.
- [05:36]
Dan Franklin
Well, I've been doing a lot of autism advocacy work. You know, been in contact with, you know, the state senator's office and a lot of autism organizations to try to understand autism more and to try to contribute to, you know, gaining more mandatory training and education with places like public transit, police officers, prosecutor offices, schools, and just anywhere in the general public that may encounter folks on the autism spectrum, because I feel that it's very misunderstood. You know, this world, sadly, is built around neurotypicals and for people like me who are level one functioning regarding autism.
- [06:21]
Tony Mantour
So when you travels, do you find it challenging?
- [06:24]
Dan Franklin
It's challenging because, you know, you have to learn these ways to mask autism, so to speak. But then when you do that, you don't get viewed as being autistic from other people because they just don't understand how the autistic brain works or tendencies with it. And so I've been doing a lot of research to even understand myself more, but also to understand, you know, how I can help others understand autism.
- [06:50]
Tony Mantour
Okay, let's dig into that a little bit. When was it that you was diagnosed as autistic?
- [06:57]
Dan Franklin
Well, I was diagnosed with autism at the age of three, and it's been quite the journey, as I say. You know, I've had to learn how to kind of adapt and adjust to this world and things, and I just feel that the system is broken. You know, you see so many folks on the autism spectrum that. That they're tied up in the legal system, and you see just how much the legal system misinterprets and doesn't factor autism into things. You know, like, even judges, I forgot to mention previously, they, I feel, need more mandatory education and training regarding autism because autism is completely different than mental illness, in my opinion. And if autism is a factor in things, it needs to be fully explained to the right people so that there's a clear, full understanding in how autism plays a factor in things and that it's not used as an excuse like a lot of people might say or, you know, think or try to portray it as.
- [08:01]
Tony Mantour
Okay, now, you have lived experience. You've been through a lot of things. You've seen different things. You have a good feeling for what's going on in the world. There are many people out there that are trying to learn about autism. There are many people that are autistic that are still trying to learn about autism. What can you tell them from your lived experiences that you See, that can help better change the perception of what you're trying to do.
- [08:28]
Dan Franklin
Well, you know, so there was a matter from island county four years ago that I don't really want to discuss on this podcast just because, you know, I don't have the plea agreement in front of me and I don't know if it's something I'm even supposed to talk about with everything that happened regarding that, that matter, I feel has really pushed me to push for change with autism because autism with my case was not factored in and an expert was not called in. And that's kind of just where I'm going to leave it at and things. But I can talk to you on a different time, more into detail when it's not on this podcast. You know, with being done, the ways that I was and having gone through the broken system, so to speak, it's just opened my eyes to really see that I'm not the only person on the spectrum that has been wronged by the justice system and has gone through the tremendous traumatic experience and having it affect mental health decline and just, you know, ruminating on it, so to speak. Then years later, just realizing the ways that autism was not factored in. And since then is when I've really learned more about autism than ever before.
- [09:43]
Tony Mantour
What were some of the things that you learned and how did you go about learning them? Who helped you?
- [09:49]
Dan Franklin
When I had met with Doug, you know, a while back, there were things that I had talked with him about, tendencies like the masking, where it's like you have to find ways to mask the autism to kind of appear normal and fit in. But then at the same time it comes at a cost because then when there's a challenging, high pressure, overstimulating situation, the autistic aspect, or pardon things, gets completely looked past, so to speak. And so that part is hard. But then the other thing is like, I even told Doug too, people on the higher functioning and can learn to speak normal and all folks in the spectrum have amazing high IQ and levels of intelligence, but they can really struggle with the interaction socially and things.
- [10:35]
Tony Mantour
Yes, they can have a very difficult time in that form for sure. Now, what other things did you see or hear that you learned about it?
- [10:44]
Dan Franklin
The biggest thing is, is also like the scripting part as well with it to where it's like, you know, there's two aspects that I like to explain that I've learned you words and phrases that you've heard other places, but you may use it out of context or not even know the meaning, but because you're feeling pressured to speak or say something, then you might say it, but not understand it till later. But then the other aspect with the scripting that I like to tell people is you may understand it, but you may not know if it's the right time, place to say it or if it makes sense with the conversation or topic at hand, you know, and so there's that.
- [11:22]
Tony Mantour
Yes, that's very interesting. Now you said there were several things. What other challenges did you find that were important to be discussed?
- [11:30]
Dan Franklin
The other part that I also talked to Doug about was the deliberation challenges when under duress, you know, and Doug had explained that when a person on the spectrum is under duress, there's something in the brain with the frontal vortex part of the brain that blocks or clouds the ability to deliberate. In other words, you know, you have challenges thinking before you say and do things. But there again, if you've at times showed that you can be intelligent and self aware, then it's always expected that you're supposed to be. And then so it's just, it's very challenging for people to understand. And so I've learned a lot about that. And you know, autistic burnout and sensory overload and sensory processing issues slash challenges and things and a difficult condition to live with. But at the same time, it can be a gift in many ways too.
- [12:27]
Tony Mantour
What are some of the challenges that you've overcome? You can sit back now and look back and say, hey, I used to do this, but now because of everything that I've gone through, this is how I handle it. So what are some of those challenges?
- [12:41]
Dan Franklin
Well, I know when I was younger, you know, as I told Doug before too, I don't feel that my brain was as developed as it is now with the know, experiences of things and knowledge and things like that. Back when I was younger, I feel that I was more vulnerable and gullible to being taken advantage of and things and being set up and being used and taken advantage of. And then as I've gotten older, I've learned to recognize when that's happening and how to not let it happen. The social interactions have also been very challenging because I'm a very outgoing social creature. But then there also is times where I get, you know, overwhel because so much energy gets spent on masking autism to where you can't really put your energy into use the ways that you want because you're so focused on masking. So then, you know, you have challenges with like your interactions with people and, you know, and this person might think you're off or not understand everything, and then you might get shut out or outcasted or not included on things or whatever, or you might get talked about, people might try and slander you to try to gain that sort of power and control in that narrative driven aspect, so to speak. And it's hard, you know, and so I've had to do, as I said earlier, a lot of research about autism to not just understand myself better, but to understand how I can advocate. You know, where I met Doug was at D3, the decriminalized developmental Disabilities organization. And they have their once a month meetings that I attend, and they've been responsible for passing laws and policy changes at the state level regarding autism nationwide, trying to get that education and knowledge and aspect to things out there. And so just meeting with them has even given me so much confidence to want to, you know, be a part of that and see how I can talk to like, the state senator's office and autism organizations to really open people's eyes on the real, true, advanced aspect of autism that I don't feel has really been introduced and how it's important to understand things so that the right support can be gotten, but also the right understanding can be made, so to speak, the legal system, if needed, or mental health and things like that.
- [15:09]
Tony Mantour
You've mentioned that you're an advocate and that you spend time speaking with senators and legislators. From those conversations, whether at the state or regional level, what have you actually seen that gives you hope? And where do you think that the lawmakers can make a very meaningful difference? What stands out to you? What do you see happening that truly can move the needle in the direction you need?
- [15:34]
Dan Franklin
Well, it's hard because, you know, I've talked to Hayden from Senator Patty Murray's office, and I had talked to him once before, and I know that Doug and people from D3 were going to set up another meeting to have, you know, us all meet with him. Because the thing is, if you only have one person that's kind of pushing for these things, it's not going to be as likely to be heard or factored in or recognized or have things done versus if you have more than one person that's kind of pushing for these things. And so, I mean, I've tried to do my part, but we need to get more voices in on the matter. And I feel that it's very crucial that people on the spectrum are definitely included in these things, because when they can hear it from the client the most and from the autistic people directly. That's going to make some of the biggest differences out there because they can hear from those people directly and see how it's such a challenging condition to live with and how easily misunderstood it is. Unfortunately, yes, that's for sure.
- [16:36]
Tony Mantour
I hear that from every person I speak with, is that people just do not understand how you have to live and what you have to go through and the challenges that you face.
- [16:47]
Dan Franklin
But I feel that just gaining the education about autism is the first step because you can't really advocate and push for change and do the things necessary if you're not educated and know these things. And so the biggest thing for me has been to understand autism more and the brain and how it responds under pressure to certain things or how it might give trauma based responses because of the past or things like that.
- [17:13]
Tony Mantour
Yeah. Now there are people that work with police and first responders. They go out and tell them their stories and try and educate them. Have you done any of that at all?
- [17:24]
Dan Franklin
You know, I actually gave a speech at the Bellingham City Council on baptism on June 23rd at the seven minute mark. It was about three minutes long because they only allow everybody three minutes to speak because of the amount of people that want to speak and they want to get everybody included. I know that there's this gal named Beverly who works with the ARC of Whatcom county, and they have been an amazing support and help to me as well. I know that there's the ARC of Washington State that I've even attended the Zoom meetings for, and there's been the National ARC that I've been in contact with a little bit. But I know this gal, Beverly. She wants to go down to the Bellingham Police Department eventually and bring me with her and kind of educate them about autism and how to appropriately recognize and respond and how to de escalate versus escalate and understand that certain folks in the spectrum may have had previous traumatic interactions with police. And so if they're resistant to things, it's not that there's something to hide, so to speak. It's clearly a trauma based response to things. And then understand that maybe instead of sending a police officer, maybe there needs to be an autism trained crisis worker.
- [18:38]
Tony Mantour
I think that's a great idea that you can get out and give information like that that would help so many people.
- [18:44]
Dan Franklin
I know that's something that I've been trying to push for as well, especially in Washington and hopefully across the nation. But I feel that there needs to be Autism foundations built like there needs to be autism trauma based based certified specialists and counselors that understand autism and trauma and how to best appropriately deal with them. There also needs to be specific autism lawyers and things and whatnot so that people can be best assisted in things. There also needs to be a reform with the justice system. Like an autistic person gives a false confession or is done wrong by the justice system, well, where's their ability to have justice for being wronged and having the mental health suffering and the job opportunities lost and all these things? Where's that ability? Where's the recognition how they were wrong? I've also learned that if an autistic person feels injustice, they're going to sit there and ruminate, but they're not going to stop feeling injustice until they can get the justice that they're seeking.
- [19:49]
Tony Mantour
Yes, those are all good points. Any other things that you feel that are needed?
- [19:53]
Dan Franklin
I just feel that there needs to be more mandatory training. There just has to be because then the general public would understand how to recognize and work with it, but then the autistic community would feel more comfortable and accommodated to and understood. And I feel that the pain and suffering would end all around, but without the proper training, it's not going to end. For as far as the pain, the suffering goes, we got to start doing this, you know, And I saw. I'm just doing what I can as far as working with these organizations and trying to get a lot of people with me to push for these things. But I can only do what I can do, you know.
- [20:29]
Tony Mantour
That's right. But the main thing is you are doing it.
- [20:31]
Dan Franklin
You.
- [20:32]
Tony Mantour
Yeah. Do you have the opportunity to get together with other people? This way you can put your heads together, come up with new fresh ideas, then pitch them to the people that can help make change.
- [20:44]
Dan Franklin
Yeah. You know, one thing that I've even talked with Beverly from the Arctic Whatcom county here in Bellingham, Washington about, and a few others too, is I've got so many pages bookmarked and screenshotted about autism and the brain and executive functioning challenges and cognitive deficit challenges and things. And I want to be able to put like a meaningful PowerPoint presentation together for the general public. And I would love to be able to give it to people and have people share it with everybody so that people can really see advanced aspects of autism, so to speak, that are currently just not educated or understood. You know what I mean? And so wanted to do that because being on the spectrum has been hard. Being able to find the strength to Interact and do things, trying to put my sentences together and be competent at time. And that's the other thing that I forgot to mention is folks on the autism spectrum, just because at times they can show amazing instances of competency does not mean that they're always competent right then and there or at the time that things occurred. And so that's another thing that needs to be factored into things, is that aspect of things. But I know that I just tried to be able to attend these meetings and do the research because, you know, I feel that the more people I can talk to and it's at least a step in the right direction to make the right changes done without the right work, it's not going to get done.
- [22:13]
Tony Mantour
Yeah, that's absolutely correct. How do you address this? I was speaking with a guy, about 6 foot 2, 250 pounds, really rugged looking guy.
- [22:23]
Dan Franklin
Yeah.
- [22:24]
Tony Mantour
He made a comment to me and it went like this. If I told someone that I had cancer, they would say, oh, how can I help you? How can I help you? But if I tell them I'm automatic autistic, they say, you don't look autistic. How do you address that? Here's a guy that looks like everyone else and you try to explain the differences that his brain works and they just don't get it. So how do you handle that?
- [22:48]
Dan Franklin
Well, so that's the thing. So it's all about the headspace, the mindset and things. So basically, you know, you can tell it to somebody, but if they are ignorant of autism, as I say, or want to be and don't want to understand, then not worth wasting your time and breath with that person or people because you're just going to drain your energy and become frustrated. And so it's all about finding the right people. But then you also might get frustrated because they just simply misunderstand. And so then it's like, do you get frustrated and get worked up and really emphasize that, yes, I'm autistic and this is how. And then when they sit here and they still are resistant, so to speak, then it's like, you know, you might have an episode, you might have a meltdown, or you can just choose to, you know, whatever, I'm just not going to speak to you, you can say and think what you want kind of thing. And so it's just based upon the current headspace and mindset, so to speak, how the response is given. And even when I was younger, I didn't even want to tell people I was autistic because I was afraid of, you know, certain things happening to me or getting looked at as off or whatever. But as I've gotten older, I've learned to become comfortable with it. I would hope that sharing it with people that I have, that they would become sympathetic and understanding. But unfortunately that's not always the case like we would want. But the biggest thing is, is I've even been told too. Well, I would have never known you were autistic unless you told me.
- [24:24]
Tony Mantour
Yeah. And I've heard that from so many people I've spoken with.
- [24:27]
Dan Franklin
And it's like, well, I wonder why that is. Because you just don't take the time to do the research and understand autism like me. And you haven't lived it and you don't have someone who's autistic. But a lot of the problem is with this world is they don't think that you're autistic unless you're non verbal or your hand flapping, so to speak. And that's a problem. And you know, something that I've even done with like understanding autism more is even like an example is people on the spectrum, especially level one, can get wrongfully misjudged and assumed to use autism as an excuse. And that's not true. So then the simple solution to understand it more is do the research and look it up. So I'll do things like go on the Internet and search. Why does an autistic person get wrongfully assumed or misunderstood to use autism as an excuse when that's not the case and the answers are right there? Why do autistic people get wrongfully accused of manipulation, so to speak, when that's not the case? It's like the answers are right there,
- [25:30]
Tony Mantour
you know, sure, that's the case so many times all they have to do is look it up and find out now where you're autistic. I'm sure you've had several times where you've been overwhelmed. Overwhelmed, close to a meltdown or even having a meltdown. So how did you handle that? Or how do you handle that when you feel it coming on so that way you can get away from others and handle it yourself so that they don't have a clue as to what's going on?
- [25:59]
Dan Franklin
Well, you know, it's, it's hard because it depends upon the headspace and a lot of things at the time that things occur. And sometimes you get so overwhelmed that you just cannot control the episode or the meltdown down or you may have felt so injustice and misunderstood that you may want to leave a barkish voicemail or send a barkish email, so to speak. And I was even learning that when an autistic person leaves a voicemail for a place or sends an email, it's not with malicious intent, it's to express emotional distress and not get interrupted or, you know, halted. And I know that another thing I want to include that's important to things is the problem is what, like when an autistic person does things like that, it's a way to cope with things, but also when they feel wronged with these kinds of things, the way for them to stop fixating and ruminating is to kind of get it out of them how they could or can and feel heard, whereas they're in direct situation at hand, they might not have that opportunity. But then when you go on the Internet and some someone else who's neurotypical minded or just simply ignorant of autism, you know, they're not going to understand these things. So even something I've done is I've gone on the Internet and searched why does an autistic person leave a barkish voicemail or send a barkish email, so to speak, to a place that they feel has wronged them or given them injustice? And there's a whole list of things and it's not meant to, you know, necessarily harass, maybe that's a little part of it, but it's more so to get out the emotional distress and feel heard because otherwise they're just going to sit there and ruminate and fixate on it. Then it's just going to consume their soul and their life.
- [27:51]
Tony Mantour
In closing, what do you think is important for the listener to hear about what you're trying to do, the message you're trying to put across to everyone, not only about your autism, but about the autistic society and what they need so that people can understand that they're just trying to live a life like you're everyone else. What's important for them to hear?
- [28:12]
Dan Franklin
Well, I think a big thing that I wanted to mention is the word approach. You know, the way that you approach an autistic person is going to make a world of difference how the overall interaction goes and how they perceive it and how receptive they can be to what you're saying. And whether they're going to shut down to you or the situation at hand. The approach is very key. But then also there needs to be the actual generosity to want to help people. Not just going in it for, you know, hidden motives, so to speak, but actually having it in the heart and soul to understand autism and understand that not all high functioning autistic people are the same, not all lower functioning autistic people are the same. It's all based upon the level of support, past trauma. And it's like, you know, if we walk this world and people on the spectrum to get better and thrive, we need to make it a safe, functioning environment to where they are understood and they are accepted. Accepted for who they are and we stop trying to change them to adapt to neurotypical world and society. Like if a person is in a wheelchair, they have to have accommodations made. You have to be able to build a ramp for them to get up when there's stairs and they can't get up at and they need to be able to accommodate and build a ramp. Well, where's the same kind of aspect or approach with people on the autism spectrum? It's a big work in progress, but we just have to keep pushing for it. You know, try to understand autism more. Understand that autism is not just hand flapping and non verbal and things. There's a whole spectrum understanding everything that goes with it. And like stop trying to force things on them and stop making them uncomfortable. Because it's like if people would just let folks on the spectrum thrive and be able to express themselves, they would be amazed how much intelligence and high IQ that these folks offer and possess and how they can offer so much to the world. But when they're not given the opportunities, then they shut down, they have meltdowns, they go into antisocial isolation mode and then they don't feel like they're helped. You know, they feel helpless, hopeless, depressed, everything. And then they never get a chance to be able to thrive like the rest of the world. And then the mental health decline just takes over and then you never get to see these folks offer these great things about themselves to the world.
- [30:43]
Tony Mantour
Now would you like to have the listeners contact contact you?
- [30:46]
Dan Franklin
I would love for that.
- [30:47]
Tony Mantour
Okay, give us your contact info.
- [30:50]
Dan Franklin
Then they want, you know, they can email me at Big Dog B I G d a w g122994 yahoo.com Big Dog was my football nickname growing up. Even though I've become accustomed to playing basketball in recent years, the rest was just my birthday.
- [31:07]
Tony Mantour
Well, this has been great, great information, great conversation. I really appreciate you taking the time to join us today.
- [31:15]
Dan Franklin
Hey, thank you Tony. You have a good rest of your day and take care and yeah, let's talk soon. Thank you.
- [31:21]
Tony Mantour
It's been my pleasure. Thanks again. Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today. We hope you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. If you know someone who has a story to share, tell them to contact us at WhyNotMe World. One last thing, spread the word about why not me. Our conversations are inspiring guests that show you are not alone in this world.
- [32:06]
Liberty Mutual Announcer
Liberty Mutual customizes your car and home insurance. And now we're customizing this rush hour ad to keep you calm, which could help your driving. And science says therapy is great for a healthy mindset. So enjoy this 14 second session on us. I think you've done everything right and absolutely nothing wrong. In fact, anything that hasn't gone your way could probably be blamed on your father not being emotionally available because his father wasn't emotionally available, and so on. And now that you're calm and healing, you're probably driving better too.
- [32:36]
Capital One Announcer
This message is brought to you by the Capital One Venture X Card. Venture X offers the premium benefits you expect, like a $300 annual Capital One travel credit for less than you expect. Elevate your earn with unlimited double miles on every purchase, bringing you one step closer to your next dream destination. Plus, enjoy access to over 1000 airport lounges worldwide. The Capital One Venture X Card what's in your wallet? Terms apply. Lounge access is subject to change. See capitalone.com for detail details.
- [33:07]
Tony Mantour
If you like the show, please take
- [33:09]
Dan Franklin
a moment to rate, review and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening.