Dr. Christopher Khoury:Beyond the Label: Helping Students with Autism Thrive in School and Life

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Tony Mantor: Why Not Me?

Episode: Dr. Christopher Khoury – Beyond the Label: Helping Students with Autism Thrive in School and Life

Date: July 29, 2026
Host: Tony Mantor
Guest: Dr. Christopher Curry (Clinical Psychologist & Educational Diagnostician)

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Overview

This episode of Why Not Me? explores the lived realities and evolving frameworks for supporting students on the autism spectrum in school and life. Host Tony Mantor welcomes Dr. Christopher Curry, a clinical psychologist and educational diagnostician, to discuss practical strategies, the vital importance of teamwork across families and schools, neurodiversity acceptance, and the personal motivations that led Dr. Curry into special education. The conversation moves beyond textbook definitions, confronting persistent stigma, resource disparities, and the need for creative individualized approaches.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Role and Motivation of an Educational Diagnostician

• [03:06] Dr. Curry explains his position: overseeing special education programming, evaluating students for disabilities (especially autism), and orchestrating IEP (Individualized Education Program) meetings.
• Identifies as someone who facilitates collaboration and compliance with legal standards, ensuring students "get the right combination that's going to help just student reach his potential or her max potential" [06:00].

Notable Quote:

• “I work kind of closely with parents on that end to see what they're seeing at home and their thoughts on how they're doing in the school setting. And then we come up with a plan, and I kind of orchestrate that plan and work with the teachers.” – Dr. Curry [06:03]

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2. How Schools Identify & Support Students with Autism

• [03:57] Differentiates between clinical and educational identification—school-based evaluations involve team assessments (behavioral, social, functional, and academic).
• Recognizes variability across states regarding roles like “educational diagnostician.”
• Primary involvement is indirect—focused on assessment, planning, and ensuring the right services (speech, behavioral specialists, etc.) are provided.

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3. The Importance of Individualization and Neurodiversity

• Dr. Curry shares his own experience with a reading comprehension disability, emphasizing empathy for students with learning differences.
• [07:39] Advocates that every person is extraordinary, and educators' jobs are to help students find their uniqueness.
• “I don't believe that everybody's ordinary. I believe everybody is extraordinary. And not everybody gets to show that extraordinary because they don't have people to help them find it.” – Dr. Curry [07:45]

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4. Systemic Changes: Then vs. Now

• [09:08] Dr. Curry notes a significant shift in school culture over 20 years: labels like “autism” are no longer limiting, more teachers are trained, and more support exists.
• Still, funding and resource disparities between districts persist, impacting experiences and outcomes for students [18:24].

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5. Collaboration and the Power of Teamwork

• Emphasizes the importance of teamwork between teachers, parents, and assessment staff.
• “So it takes a team.” – Dr. Curry [11:15]

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6. Teacher Evolution and Practical Classroom Experience

• Recognizes that many teachers lack initial training in neurodiversity but adapt and learn through experience and district support [15:29].
• Shares a memorable story: a nonverbal autistic student repeatedly had meltdowns due to his desk touching another—a simple environmental adjustment solved the issue, illustrating the need for personalized attention [16:00].

Notable Quote:

• “A simple thing and making sure that his desk wasn't touching the desk in front... it's so interesting to me how unique... our brains process information different. That really, you know, taught me something.” – Dr. Curry [17:26]

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7. Resource Disparities and Early Identification

• Affirms there are noticeable differences between districts that invest in supports versus those that can’t due to funding.
• Early identification, while important, must be handled with care to avoid misdiagnosis [18:43].

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8. Beyond the Book: Life Lessons and Advocacy

• Dr. Curry points out he never learned to read in a conventional way and has never read a book (“I've never read a book, Tony” [20:02]). He reached a PhD by learning through alternative means and direct life experiences.
• Success relies on real-life problem-solving, tweaking IEPs, and persistent parent/school collaboration [21:11].
• Tells his powerful story of being singled out in high school for a learning disability, which motivated him to eventually return to teach in the same classroom and support others [21:32].

Notable Quote:

• “From going from the zero row to fighting... to get back in that classroom [to] get the help I never got.” – Dr. Curry [23:06]

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9. Bullying and Social Integration

• [23:35] Speaks about bullying as a major concern, especially after COVID disruptions.
• Relays a positive example: through proactive engagement, support, and teacher awareness, bullying can be swiftly addressed and minimized.

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10. Advice and Hopes for the Future

For Teachers:

• “Keep an open mind. Do not let that label define that child... always think that, again, there's nobody that's ordinary. Everybody is extraordinary.” – Dr. Curry [25:44]
• Teachers are urged to focus beyond labels and see each child’s potential.

For Parents:

• “Don't ever give up...the parents are going to be the ones going to drive the success of that student.” – Dr. Curry [27:35]

Vision for the Future:

• In five years, Dr. Curry hopes for less distinction between students with autism and neurotypical peers, research-based strategies, and true classroom inclusion where it’s impossible to tell who is or isn't autistic—“That would be the dream world right there.” [27:02]

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11. Signs of Progress and Ongoing Evolution

• [28:15] Dr. Curry finds hope in diverse, adaptive teaching approaches and increased teacher openness.
• Growing parent advocacy groups, district family resource centers, and extracurricular programs bolster community support and inclusion [29:25].

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Everybody is extraordinary. And not everybody gets to show that extraordinary because they don't have people to help them find it.” – Dr. Curry [07:39]
• “I've never read a book, Tony...life lessons are more valuable than what you learn in the book.” – Dr. Curry [20:02]
• “From going from the zero row to fighting and fighting and fighting and doing everything...to get back in that classroom [and] get the help I never got.” – Dr. Curry [23:06]
• “Keep an open mind. Do not let that label define that child.” – Dr. Curry [25:42]
• “Parents are the ones going to drive the success of that student. They're going to raise the bar for their child.” – Dr. Curry [27:35]
• “In my dream world, I would love to walk into a classroom one day and not know which have autism or...have been identified with autism and which students don’t...” – Dr. Curry [27:05]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:07 – Episode theme intro and Dr. Curry’s welcome
• 03:06 – 04:58 – What an educational diagnostician does and autism identification in schools
• 06:34 – 07:39 – Neurodiversity, individualized approaches, and sharing his own learning difference
• 09:08 – How school systems’ approach has changed over the years
• 15:29 – 17:46 – Teacher learning curve; story about the significance of small environmental adjustments
• 18:24 – Impact of resources and disparity between districts
• 21:32 – Dr. Curry's personal journey of being marginalized and its long-term impact
• 23:35 – Addressing bullying for autistic students (with real example)
• 25:42 – Key advice for teachers
• 26:28 – Future hopes for autism support in education
• 27:28 – Advice for parents
• 28:15 – Signs of progress witnessed in teaching and inclusion
• 29:25 – Community support, resource centers, and evolving strategies
• 30:44 – Closing thanks

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Tone and Style

The episode is empathetic, direct, and hopeful. The conversation is rich in personal stories, practical wisdom, and an optimistic belief in every student’s ability to thrive with the right support system. Dr. Curry’s honesty and vulnerability (e.g., about his own learning challenges) model the acceptance and determination the episode champions for neurodivergent youth.

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Transcript

[Mangesha Teegular]

I'm Mangesha Teegular, and I'm back with a new season of my podcast, Skyline Drive. This time I talk to scientists, biopunks, curmudgeons, blue zoners, super seniors, and Goa's top cryotherapy lab to try to understand this obsession with living forever and what it means for all of us. And I get into a bit of trouble along the way.

[Tony Mantour]

I'd say probably start bone smashing. That doesn't work. To make it look more defined.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

They say it works. I don't know.

[Mangesha Teegular]

Listen to Skyline how to Live Forever on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tony Mantour]

This is Michael Rapoport and my podcast, the I Am Rapoport Stereo podcast, is unlike anyone you've ever heard. If you're looking for strong opinions about sports, entertainment, politics, pop culture, and whatever else catches my attention, then subscribe now. This kid, Jafar Jackson, should absolutely, positively get nominated for his portrayal as Michael Jackson. Listen to I Am rappaport on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

Can superstars even exist the way they used to? 2016 was sort of that last era of monoculture where we still consume things in community. Everybody wanted to be Beyonce at that point. I don't think we'll ever see another Rihanna.

[Gary Valenciano]

What does it mean to be black and eat in America?

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

You will never make me feel bad for being a black girl, for being a black American girl ever. From music to food to the conversations shaping black culture, right now, therapy for black girls is bringing it all to the mic. Listen to therapy for Black Girls on

[Gary Valenciano]

the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ryan Weiss]

Hello, my love. I'm Ryan Weiss, and For the past 15 years, I've been an emotional intelligence coach and a spiritual guide. And I'm sharing with you my new podcast, Waking Up With Ryan. Waking up with Ryan is a daily audio video podcast here to help you connect with yourself before the noise of the day takes over. So let's start our days together with a moment of calm that's just for you. Listen to Waking Up with ryan on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tony Mantour]

What if everything you thought you knew about autism and mental health wasn't the full story? Today's conversation might change the way you see it. This is why not me. Embracing autism and mental health Worldwide Real conversations about autism, mental health and the stories that shape our lives. I'm Tony Mantour this is where understanding begins. If this kind of conversation matters to you, follow the show so you don't miss what comes next. Today's guest is on the front lines of helping children succeed in school and in life. Dr. Christopher Curry is a clinical psychologist and educational diagnostician working directly with students, many on the autism spectrum. He helps identify their needs and guides them in the support they deserve. Welcome to the show.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

Well, I appreciate you having me. Thank you.

[Tony Mantour]

Oh, it's my pleasure. Happy to have you here. For people listening that may not understand this world, can you start by explaining what you do day to day and what inspired you to help these kids?

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

So what I currently do now. So I'm an educational diagnostician for a school district. I know not every state has an educational diagnostician position, but we identify students with disabilities and we help run their IEP meetings and make sure they have the right programming. You know, we're kind of in charge of the schools that we're assigned at to make sure that we're following all federal, state, and local laws and procedures. Basically. Basically just kind of just making sure that our students that are in the special education department are within our special ed program that they need.

[Tony Mantour]

Are you a clinician or are you a doctor as well?

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

Yes, I got my PhD in educational psychology with a focus in special education.

[Tony Mantour]

You're on the front lines with these kids. So when you hear the official definitions of autism, serious mental illness, etcetera, what makes you think in the back of your mind they've got part of it right, but that's not the whole picture.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

Well, as far as how we identify students with autism, so there's certain criteria that they have to meet. It's not just my call. How the school identifies students with autism is different than how they're identified on the outside. So in the school, we have to get our licensed school psychologists involved. And there's different elements that they assess, and they do the bulk of that for our students with autism. So it's going to be they do behavior skills, they do social skills, they look at, you know, their functional skills. My primary would be I look at their cognitive ability and their academic achievement, and then we kind of all kind of collaborate together. It also kind of looks a little different if you're looking at the younger kiddos versus the older kiddos. But of course, by the time they get a little bit older, they're already identified. As far as getting it wrong, I don't know if they get it wrong. Our students with autism are so unique. I fell in love with them. The more I work with our students and assess them, just the more. The more fascinated I got.

[Tony Mantour]

What age group do you primarily work with?

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

Well, I mostly work with secondary, so middle school, high school.

[Tony Mantour]

Oh, okay.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

I have done assessments and worked in elementaries. I love working with elementary kiddos, but that's just not my. Not my forte.

[Tony Mantour]

Yeah, got it. When you talk about working with students across elementary, middle, and high school levels, what does that really look like in practice? What are you working on with them? And for students on the autism spectrum, how involved are you directly? Are you meeting with them one on one, helping guide them? Or is your role more focused on evaluation and shaping the support they receive? Can you give us a little insight on that?

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

So as far as working directly with them with services, I don't provide those services. So they'll have speech service if they need a behavior specialist to kind of help. The times where, you know, they're feeling like they need to express themselves, but they don't know how to. So there's different other related services. What I do as far as working with the students, and there's been a few that I kind of, kind of gravitate towards communicate with them, kind of keep an eye on them just in general. But as far as directly working with them, the most important thing I do is during their IEP meetings. The IEP meetings to me are like a puzzle. Constantly working to make sure that they're getting the right services, the right accommodations, the right combination that's going to help just student reach his potential or her max potential. And so I work kind of closely with parents on that end to see what they're seeing at home and their thoughts on how they're doing in the school setting. And then we come up with a plan, and I kind of orchestrate that plan and work with the teachers to try to get that right combination.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay, is that combination more neurodiverse or is it more neurotypical? Or is it a blend of both neurotypical and neurodiverse?

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

So it depends on the individual student. So, yes, one of the things is neurodiversity. This is kind of one of the things that we're. I really kind of connect with our students with autism is I had to learn a different way. I couldn't read. Reading comprehension disability, so I've never been able to read books. I've always had to think outside the box. I've always had to learn in a different way. And a lot of our students with autism, that's the same with them. And you just have to figure out what that student needs, what's going to, you know, help them be successful. So it's kind of a combination of both, I would say. But really thinking outside the box now,

[Tony Mantour]

are you autistic as well?

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

No, sir.

[Tony Mantour]

The reason I asked this question is where you said you couldn't read. I had an autistic teenager come on my podcast, and he could not read either. Yet he was a tremendous artist that did so many great things. It was just totally unbelievable. So it shows that it doesn't matter. You can still do great things.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

It's just amazing to me. What I've learned from the students that I've worked with, and I've got to remain close with several, even after high school, is that we all have this quality about. There's something about all of us. I don't believe that we have. Everybody's ordinary. I believe everybody is extraordinary. And not everybody gets to show that extraordinary because they don't have people to help them find it. We can all do something extraordinary. And, you know, of course it looks different depending on different levels of functioning. But no matter who you are, I mean, where you are on the spectrum, you can provide. There's an extraordinary quality. And like you said, you know, it's just trying to find what that is. And working with these students, once they find it, it's like such a great feeling, especially working with the parents.

[Tony Mantour]

Now, how long have you been doing this?

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

So I worked in public schools for over 20 years.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

I also work at a university, so I work training special education teachers in a master's program at Walden University.

[Tony Mantour]

All right.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

I have nonprofit organizations. Next Gen United Champions Sports foundation offers opportunities for our economically disadvantaged and underrepresented youth to participate in sports. You know, you learn so many valuable lessons through sports. And I have endeavored education where I do consulting and working with parents.

[Tony Mantour]

Okay. Now, you've been doing this for quite a long time. Now I'm interested. How do you find the school system in how they operate now with autistic children compared to what they used to do with autistic children years ago?

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

The school system is completely different than what it was. I think there's been a big effort to try to understand neurodiverse learners. I think there's been a big push. There's been a big change. I hate labels. It's great to be identified, and it's good to know if a student has autism, you know, you have to label it. But what I've seen progress through the years is that label doesn't just become a label. It's not just, oh, autism, boom, the student can only do XYZ now. It's become more accepted. And I, I've seen a lot of teachers learn more about working with students with autism. There's been more support services for students with autism. So I've seen a lot of difference in the past 20 years.

[Tony Mantour]

That's good to hear. Now, how has it changed your perspective? Many people have this preconceived notion of what they think autism is. Then when you meet and start working with autistic children versus what the educational book says, it's two completely different worlds. So how has it affected you?

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

Huge. You know, I came in working in special education as a teacher and I did it. And again, my focus was special education. I got my PhD, you know, working on my PhD in special education, but my master's in special edition, when I got my master's, it was kind of an overall specific learning disability. And so as far as knowing specifically how to work with students with autism, yeah, it's not like the books. You can't take what's in a book and apply that to every individual because every student is so individualized. It's just, you can't translate that. So getting to know the students throughout the years, that's kind of what I've really learned and kind of perfected is knowing that I don't know and I have to get to know the student. I have to really understand the parents point of view. And it's really not just what I've learned, it's what we do as a collaborative team to help. And when that all works out perfectly and we're all working together, it just makes such a big difference. Throughout the years, I just learned more and more about how important that is, how important the collaboration between the school, teachers, parents, assessment staff. So it takes a team.

[Mangesha Teegular]

I'm Mangesha together. And I'm back with a new season of the podcast Skyline Drive. This time I'm diving into a rabbit hole of peptides, organoids, blood boys, blue zones and brain replacement to try to understand what this longevity obsession is all about and what it really means to live forever for all of us. I learned about some rad science.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

I can make a brain for you. And then we can test what drug is the best for your brain as opposed to his brain.

[Mangesha Teegular]

Here are some hard truths.

[Tony Mantour]

I would expect Indians to age faster,

[Gary Valenciano]

but I did not expect it to

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

be almost a four to five year

[Mangesha Teegular]

acceleration and get myself into a world of trouble.

[Tony Mantour]

I'd say probably start bone smashing.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

That doesn't work.

[Gary Valenciano]

Make it look more defined. They say it works.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

I don't know.

[Mangesha Teegular]

Listen to Skyline Drive, how to live Forever on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get Podcast.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

We've all been there.

[Gary Valenciano]

We've had seasons that have shaken everything. The question is, what remains when the shaking stops? Hi, I'm Gary Valenciano, and on my podcast Unshaken with Gary Vee, I sit down with amazing personalities and we talk about the seasons that nearly broke them,

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

the lows that carried them to their highs. Listen to Unshaken with Gary Vee on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Gary Valenciano]

Bill, why is my eye twitching? Does this mean I'm in perimenopause? Maybe I have adult adhd. I need to look this up. Where's my phone?

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

Juliana, your phone is hot to the touch. I think it's asking you for a break.

[Gary Valenciano]

You know what? Maybe I should just ask ChatGPT.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

Or maybe we can ask an actual human.

[Gary Valenciano]

Yes, like a couple sex therapist.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

Whoa, that escalated quickly, but okay, because I have questions. We have questions.

[Gary Valenciano]

And I bet everyone has questions like, is it normal to sleep in separate bedrooms? We do that.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

How about this one? Is bribing your kids bad parenting or just negotiating?

[Gary Valenciano]

Oh, and I still do need to know, why was my poop green that one time?

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

Hypothetically, Right? Okay, well, instead of letting the Internet guess, we've got actual people answering these

[Gary Valenciano]

exact questions and laughing with us has got to be better than spending three hours down a rabbit hole online.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

Listen to Bill and Juliana, the podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

[Gary Valenciano]

In 2015, teenager Joy Morgan discovered strangely compelling YouTube sermons from the religious group Israel United in Christ, or iuic. Her initial curiosity developed into devotion. She distanced herself from friends and family, embraced new identity, immersed herself in the iuic and believed she'd found the truth.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

IUIC is the best family that I've ever had.

[Gary Valenciano]

In fact, she had found what many called a cult. And On Boxing Day 2018, joy disappeared forever. In the new six part investigative podcast, the missing sister Charlie, Brinkhurst, Cuff and Freeturn explored Joy's story, the family she left, and the religious group she found.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

You know when you get that feeling where you just. I don't want to be here. I want to get out.

[Ryan Weiss]

Okay?

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

I want to go home now.

[Gary Valenciano]

It's a story about truth, lies. A young woman Yearning to belong and a family still waiting for answers. All episodes available now. To binge listen to the Missing sister on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Tony Mantour]

Yes, I totally agree 100%. It does take a team. I want to be fair to teachers here, but not all of them come in working with neurodiverse students. An example that comes to mind if they have not been around autistic children. There's a real difference between managing typical classroom behavior and understanding neurodivergent responses like meltdowns. So for teachers who didn't start with that knowledge, what have you seen in terms of how they evolve and adapt once they're living it day to day?

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

So that was a big learning curve. I can tell that that was from again when I started, even from 10 years ago to now, five years ago to now. A lot of it comes from the districts pushing to have specialists that specialize with students with autism so they can provide support for the teachers. I think a lot of times in elementary it's more profound. It is middle and high school because in elementary it's kind of new because they're still trying to get identified and all that. When they come to middle and high school and secondary, we already know they have autism. In our meetings, we have autism supplements. We have all these supports and we have behavior management plans if they need one to help the teachers understand what things should be done if the student with autism reacts in a certain way. Here, maybe we should stay away from these couple of things and I'll tell you a quick story about a student that I had with autism. When I was teaching, I knew very little about students with autism. It was like maybe my second year teaching, I was teaching a math class, resource math. I had one student with autism and he had a support staff member with him. Brilliant kid. He was non verbal and every day in class he would come in, I talked with his, you know, the support staff member that was with him and we gave him a seat where he would feel comfortable based on, you know, her knowledge of them. He would come in and he would throw a huge tamper tension every time he come in and we couldn't figure out why. I did every like we tried. Things happened for a few weeks. We didn't know why. And then we saw him one day came in and he, he was sitting in the back row and he pulled the seat maybe a half inch to an inch back and he was fine. His desk was touching the back of the seat in front of him and he couldn't handle it. And in that simple thing of just making sure his desk wasn't touching the seat in front of nothing, he was great. It made me think, like, how something like that, you know, it just like, again, the neurodiversity, how, you know, our brains process information different, that really, you know, taught me something like, you know, about how important it is to pay attention and, you know, to our students with autism and know that each one's different. You know, other students I had with autism wouldn't even care about that. But it's just so. It's so interesting to me how unique and in to get the best out of them. A simple thing and making sure that his desk wasn't touching the desk in front.

[Tony Mantour]

Let's talk about resources for a minute, because a lot of this comes down to what a school system is able or willing to invest in. Not every school system has what your district has. It has put support in place for neurodiversity. When you compare schools that have strong systems put in place versus those that don't, what differences do you see or what differences have you seen and how big is that gap in outcomes between schools that prioritize it and those that don't? Have you seen that gap?

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

Yes and no. Because, you know, I don't work with those other districts, but I do through. Through other, you know, connections I have with, you know, the different groups and the different families that I work with that I have currently students of mine that have autism, and then the one, you know, my students that have moved on that I still keep in communication with or staff community, and they know other families from other schools. And, you know, yeah, you can definitely tell a big difference. And it's not really the school's fault. It's just maybe the funding or they can do. You can tell the schools that have put emphasis especially on early identification, which is, you know, kind of scary because you have to be really careful. You don't want to have that autism diagnosis and then have to come back five years later say, oh, wait, no, that wasn't autism. That was just adhd. But, yeah, you could tell a big difference. You do have a lot of. In my district, we have a lot of families that leave their district and come to ours because we do have a really good support system. And I'm not trying to be biased with my school.

[Tony Mantour]

No, no, that's totally understandable. That's the way it is in this country. Depending on what state you're in, what town you are, there's Just so many differences. And it comes down to funding many times. We were talking earlier on things, look, on paper, what the books say you're supposed to do to support autistic children. But when you're actually in the classroom working with these kids, how often does that line up? How have you had to adjust when what the book says just doesn't work? In real life, when you're actually working with these kids, where do those approaches fall short? And what have you learned works better in real life?

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

Well, I've never read a book, Tony.

[Tony Mantour]

Oh, yes, that's right.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

Yeah, I've never read a book, so I can only speak on what other people say is written a book. I've never read. But I know from my personal experience that life lessons are more valuable than what you learn in the book. I earned a PhD and I've never read a book because I learned a different way to learn. I had to figure that out on my own. We all have these different. There's always a way to learn without having, I guess, three. But the real life experiences are, to me, what matters the most. And so I don't know what's written exactly in books. I do know that the students I worked with that have excelled with Excel, no matter the level that they're on, is because the parents advocate for their children. The school system is willing to work with parents and collaborate. You know, we were constantly tweaking and, you know, updating IEPs to give them, the student, the best support. It's not 100%. You know, when you create an IEP, there's always things that need to be tweaked. And so we're just using those life experiences for the students and seeing it, you know, live really helps.

[Tony Mantour]

Yeah, I understand that completely. Now, before we move on, let's dig a little deeper here. You mentioned earlier you never learned how to read, and you struggled in learning how to read. I believe you mentioned in the process of getting your PhD, you had to get very, very creative. Can you give us the background that you went through?

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

So in 11th grade, you know, I was struggling reading. I asked for help in middle school and 10th grade. In 11th grade, I transferred to New School. The teacher got so fed up with me, and I was having. I was struggling big time with reading. The teacher in the middle of class stopped teaching and in front of everybody, told me to go sit in the zero room. And we all knew the zero row meant Esther row. He expected nothing from you. So basically, get out of my way. Go to the zero row. You Just kind of get out, stay out. Not only was that humiliating, but, you know, I had been asking for help. That was kind of a pivotal point in my life because that hurt. And it hurt for a long time. And then I've had evaluations and teachers, you know, evaluators will say it was my fault. Now I'm the evaluator. I got to go scrutinize their evaluations and say, no, look, you missed this. I'm selling you right there. But as things progressed, I think, you know, without going through all the details, I kind of started to know and figure out, okay, I have a learning disability. And there was a defining moment in that. In my mid-20s, when I got my teaching certification and I went back to teach my second year of teaching, you know, when I was sent to the zero row, I sat on far left, second seat back. Ten years later, I was back at that same school. I taught a co teach class. So we had students with disabilities and students without disabilities. And I taught in that same classroom, and I taught the same subject. I taught. I think one of the smart students I've ever taught sat in that far left row, second seat back. Yeah. Come full circle from going from the zero row to fighting and fighting and fighting and doing everything I can to get back in that classroom, them get the help I never got.

[Tony Mantour]

So that was what gave you the motivation to do what you're doing today.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

Yeah, exactly. That catapulted me to the diagnostician role.

[Tony Mantour]

Hopefully this will give inspiration to the listeners that you actually can do whatever you want to do. I really appreciate you sharing that with us. Now let's change gears. When we talk about autism in schools, we always have to bring up the issue of bullying. Have you seen this? And if you have, how have you gone about addressing it?

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

Yes. So that's what a really close friend of mine, and I still am in contact with her son. So right after Covid, and this will lead into the bullying, right from COVID We had, you know, of course, some schools were starting to open. Some schools. So we had on, you know, online learning at home, and we had in class, and we had a student, Braden, and his mom won't mind me saying his name. Nicole's been absolutely fantastic. And this is one of my favorite kids. He was coming in as a freshman, and they didn't have a great experience in early childhood. In elementary, you know, he was non verbal. He wasn't supposed to ever speak, and his mom could speak more on all the different things that the school and professionals were telling her what his limits would be. She didn't accept it, and she kept fighting, fighting and fighting and fighting. But then, you know, when it came to going into high school, she was super nervous. She didn't have a good experience in middle school and elementary with the bullying. And then on top of that, the whole, you know, coming back with COVID so the district reached out, and they said, hey, can you reach out to Nicole and, you know, kind of talk her. You know, talk to her and form a relationship, find out what. What it is that she needs, make sure that, you know, that Braden's being taken care of, and let's see if we can get them on campus. And I think the push was Braden really wanted to be on campus. He wanted to be like all the other kids. So we were finally able to get him on campus. And bullying was one of her concerns. And you could see it. There were times where, you know, you could see the other kids that, when he first started, would kind of encourage him to do and say things that, you know, that he just thought he was a part of the group, and he didn't think much about it. Very literal, you know, hey, do this. Okay? You know, so that. That happened, but really not a whole lot, because bullying has changed so much like protecting our kids. You know, these times where we would kind of see things starting to happen and we would have teachers immediately on it. Anytime you started to see something. Yeah. We would pretty much mix it pretty quick.

[Tony Mantour]

Yeah, I think that is just so good. Now, if a teacher is listening, what do you think is very important that they come away from this with so they know how to help the autistic community?

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

Keep an open mind. Do not let that label define that child. You know, think outside the box and always think that, you know, again, there's nobody that's ordinary. Everybody is extraordinary. They don't have that person. Sometimes to help them find their extraordinary. Teachers can help that child find that they're extraordinary. And regardless of label, you always have to think, this kid, you know, this kid could be anything. He just. Or she just needs that person. And I would highly, highly. The biggest thing is stop looking at a label and saying, this is the label. Okay? Abcd. That's not how it works. Not how it works.

[Tony Mantour]

If we sit down five years from now, what do you hope autism looks like in the school system moving forward?

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

Oh, wow. The more we learn, the support, I guess in five years, for me, I wouldn't want to see any difference between a student, you know, with autism that is capable of you know, has the functions to be in the general ed setting. I wouldn't want to see a difference. I wouldn't want to know which, you know, has autism and who doesn't. Now that's not always going to be the case because, you know, there are those social skills and things like that. I want to see less of a divide. Keep learning and we keep implementing new strategies. Keep doing research in the university level and implementing those research based strategies in the classroom. Classroom research and knowledge. Research knowledge. Just continue. In my dream world, I would love to walk into a classroom one day and not know which to have autism or have been identified with autism and which students are, you know, don't have autism. That would be the, the dream world right there.

[Tony Mantour]

I think that's a great thought. What would you like to tell a parent that feels like they're constantly fighting the system? They feel lost, invisible and just want help for their kids?

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

Contact me. Don't ever give up. Don't ever give up. A lot of times parents are the students biggest advocate. It's kind of a catch 22 because a lot of parents trust the schools and the schools sometimes don't make the right decisions. But the parents don't know. But the parents that are frustrated don't give up. Because a lot of times schools may be filling that child but they don't realize they're feeling that child. They don't understand because they don't have the knowledge. But don't stop because you're going to be the one. The parents are going to be the ones going to drive the success of that student. They're going to raise the bar for their child.

[Tony Mantour]

Yes, that's great advice. What is something that you've seen or you've heard in the classroom, then after you walked away from it, you just had this good feeling that things were going to get better.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

The past maybe four or five years I've seen a lot of different teaching strategies and styles. So walk into a classroom and you can see there's different levels or not different really levels, but there's different types of activities and, and I've seen a lot of teachers that implement the accommodations and modify where they need to and they're really changing their lessons to where it's not like one lesson here, let's try these different things. And the bottom line is you want all the students, you know, have the same learning outcomes. But I've seen a lot of diversity in how our teachers are teaching in the same classroom to get that end outcome, you know, learning outcome. So that's always promising to see. When you see different groups, it's not like, oh, these students have autism or put them over here now they're all mixed in. They all have their role and those teachers who take the time to learn every student and kind of learn their needs. Very encouraging and fun to watch.

[Tony Mantour]

Yeah, that's great to hear because we all want what's best for our kids. In closing, what would you like to tell the listeners that you think is very important about what you do and what the schools are doing together to help our kids?

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

We're ongoing, we're constantly learning and implementing new research based strategies. We don't ever stop. We're constantly learning new strategies. We're constantly teaching our teachers new strategies. Teachers are becoming more open and welcoming and accepting of having neurodivergent students in the classroom. And so been a lot of progress. But we know that it's not going to stop. We're going to continue. I feel that that's very promising. And then, you know, of course we have all these leaders like Faria Ash with her foundation starting at C. Different parents start advocating. You know, they've lived it, they've seen it and they're helping other parents. That's another thing is seeing these groups of parents that have had children with autism work together. It's great. It just keeps evolving. I mean in our district we have family resource center where parents, they have certain events to educate parents from primary to secondary on how to help your child at home. We have all these seminars that we offer parents and then we have these social events for our students to teach outside the classroom to teach those social skills. There's so many different things that, that are happening now that weren't happening before

[Tony Mantour]

and the beauty of that, it is just so good for our kids. Well, this has been a great conversation. I've really enjoyed this. Thanks for joining us today.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

Well, thank you. I appreciate you having me on.

[Tony Mantour]

It's been my pleasure. Thanks again. A sincere thank you to our guests for sharing their journey. If today's conversation helped you see the world a differently, then we're doing exactly what we hope to do until next time. Keep believing, keep learning and most importantly, keep asking yourself, why not me?

[Mangesha Teegular]

I'm Mangesha Tigular and I'm back with a new season of my podcast, Skyline Drive. This time I talk to scientists, biopunks, curmudgeons, blue zoners, super seniors and Goa's top crime biotherapy lab to try to understand this obsession with living forever and what it means for all of us. And I get into a bit of trouble along the way.

[Tony Mantour]

I'd say probably start bone smashing.

[Mangesha Teegular]

That doesn't work.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

To make it look more defined, they say it works. I don't know.

[Mangesha Teegular]

Listen to Skyline Drive, how to live Forever on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Gary Valenciano]

Hey, it's Nora Jones and my podcast Playing along is back with more of my favorite musicians. Check out my newest episode with Finneas.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

So I went home and I asked Billie if she wanted to sing it. She immediately made it her own thing. You really know how to make me cry when you give me those ocean eyes and I'm scared.

[Gary Valenciano]

So come hang out with us in the studio and listen to Playing along on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This season on my podcast, here's the

[Tony Mantour]

Thing, I talked to composer Marc Shaiman.

[Mangesha Teegular]

It's about the hang.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

It's the pleasure of hanging out with the people that you're with. You know, Rob and I was always a great hang. And director Morgan Neville.

[Mangesha Teegular]

Film school teaches you all the wrong things about making documentary.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

What do you want to say? Documentary is all about your ear.

[Mangesha Teegular]

What do you hear? I feel like my job is listening really, really hard.

[Dr. Christopher Curry]

Listen to here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ryan Weiss]

Hello, my love. I'm Ryan Weiss, and For the past 15 years, I've been an emotional intelligence coach and a spiritual guide, and I'm sharing with you my new podcast, Waking up with Ryan. Waking Up With Ryan is a daily audio video podcast here to help you connect with yourself before the noise of the day takes over. So let's start our days together with a moment of calm that's just for you. Listen to Waking up with ryan on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.