Something strange is happening in the C-suite — and employees are the ones feeling it.
In this fiery and funny episode of Toot or Boot, Stacey Nordwall is joined by Jessica Winder and Kim Rohrer to unpack a record-breaking trend: more CEOs have stepped down in 2025 than any year in recent history.

They dig into why leaders are bailing, what’s really going on behind the “personal reasons” PR statements, and how the revolving door at the top is wrecking trust, culture, and stability across organizations. From “glass cliff” appointments to the “CEO gig economy,” the conversation is equal parts HR therapy and truth serum about power, privilege, and burnout at the top.

The crew also looks ahead — asking what happens when nobody even wants to be in charge anymore. And yes, they go there: could AI actually replace a CEO?

Key Takeaways:

CEO departures hit a 20-year high — and “no reason given” often hides real turmoil.

Interim CEOs and “fractional” leaders create confusion, not stability.

Boards keep firing individuals instead of fixing systemic problems.

The “glass cliff” still pushes women — especially Black women — into impossible roles.

Employees feel the ripple effect: fear, fatigue, and lost trust.

Leadership churn erodes culture faster than layoffs do.

The next generation isn’t aspiring to lead — and that’s a warning sign.

Burnout isn’t just for employees; executives are breaking too.

AI “leaders” aren’t a solution — but the fantasy says a lot about disillusionment.

The future of leadership requires re-imagining power, not recycling it.

Timestamps:

00:00 — Welcome and introductions: why CEOs are “not okay.”
04:20 — The CEO exodus by the numbers — record turnover in 2025.
07:15 — Interim CEOs, scapegoating, and corporate gaslighting.
10:30 — Boards keep firing the wrong people.
13:00 — The “glass cliff” and why women say “I’m out.”
15:00 — What’s really behind “voluntary departures.”
20:30 — The shrinking pipeline for diverse leadership.
28:00 — Culture collapse: how constant CEO changes wreck teams.
33:00 — Loyalty vs. chaos: what employees should expect now.
36:00 — Can AI be your CEO? (We said it.)

Top Keywords:
CEO turnover, leadership instability, HR insight, glass cliff, burnout, workplace culture, board dynamics, interim CEO, employee trust, diversity in leadership