Between layoffs, burnout, political chaos, AI anxiety, and the cost of living crisis, it’s no wonder employees aren’t okay. But if “not okay” has become the new normal, how do we lead, work, and stay human in the middle of it?

In this episode of Toot or Boot, Stacey Nordwall is joined by Kat Kibben and Ryan-Mae McAvoy to explore the crises reshaping the modern workplace. Together, they dig into what’s behind the stats — from chronic fear and distraction to the way work has replaced community — and why “resilience” isn’t a cure for systemic dysfunction.

The conversation goes deep on leadership, empathy, and accountability: why companies still reward the wrong traits in leaders, what a truly trauma-aware organization looks like, and how HR can create stability when the world won’t stop spinning. They talk about what healthy work could look like even when no one’s okay.

Key Takeaways:

Most employees are operating from chronic fear and instability — and pretending otherwise makes it worse.
“Resilience” has become a buzzword that ignores systemic problems.
Leadership starts with self-awareness and accountability, not policy.
Work has replaced community — and it’s breaking people.
Constant information flow keeps nervous systems on high alert.
HR can help by creating clarity, consistency, and small certainties.
Access to benefits ≠ real psychological safety; trust is built in action.
The U.S. over-relies on employers to fill social safety gaps.
Leaders need to slow down, ask more questions, and model boundaries.
Optimism and connection are radical leadership tools in uncertain times.

00:00 — Welcome + why “employees are not okay” became a refrain
02:50 — The nonstop chaos economy: layoffs, fear, and instability
07:00 — Brene Brown, burnout, and the limits of empathy
11:40 — The trauma of layoffs and why we can’t grit through it
14:00 — Fear-based leadership and the dopamine trap of bad news
18:30 — Are workplaces actually built for resilience?
23:00 — Work as the new community (and why that’s dangerous)
26:30 — What we can learn from other countries’ systems
33:00 — Modern work as dependence: a new kind of slavery
35:30 — Redefining leadership: connection, courage, and curiosity

Top Keywords:
employee burnout, workplace mental health, HR leadership, resilience at work, trauma-informed leadership, workplace culture, psychological safety, layoffs and fear, nervous system regulation, future of work