Adriana Trigiani (4:51)

Thank you so much. I am thrilled and honored to be Here, you know, I adore you.

Zibby Owens (4:55)

Oh, I adore you too.

Adriana Trigiani (4:57)

Thank you.

Zibby Owens (4:57)

Okay. At first I thought, oh, great, I'm going to Lake Como. And then I was like, what? Lake Como, New Jersey? What the heck? Okay, so your book starts in New Jersey.

Adriana Trigiani (5:07)

You get both. I know, listen, we can't mislead our listeners. I know you get both, but, you know, you know, at different stages of your life, you do different things. And people were getting married in New Jersey for. I had cousins getting married down there and different. And we found ourselves in New Jersey a lot. And I just started nosing around and I found this town, Lake Como, and I thought this was hilarious. This is like, is your sister city, Lake Como, Italy? Like, because my mother's people are Lombardian and so we're from that area. So then I started nosing around and found out that the town changed its name. It used to be South Belmont. This made it more hilarious to me because the property values were plummeting and they wanted to resuscitate this town, so they took a vote and they renamed it Lake Como.

Zibby Owens (5:56)

And the rest is history.

Adriana Trigiani (5:57)

And the rest is history. And I just, you know, when I go to write a book, it happens on many layers. And this character, Jess Barrata, just got divorced and she's really living in her parents basement. Sad. And she has to rebuild. And I thought, how interesting that she living in a town that had to rebuild.

Zibby Owens (6:17)

Totally. I love that. Okay, tell listeners what the book is about.

Adriana Trigiani (6:22)

Well, you know, I kind of. Here's my elevator pitch. It's the story of a woman who rebuilds her life and the house that goes with it. And there's a lot of things on my mind that fed into this for the three year process of writing it that I contemplated. And one of them is like, where do I feel at most at peace in the world? And the truth is, I feel at peace in my grandmother and mother's hometown on the mountain in Italy. I just do in the snow. Like, I like snow. I'm one of those people. And when I say a piece, I mean in communion with the ever after. So that. That I wanted to write about that. And then. And so many times too, Zibby. We. We make mistakes that we think are mistakes, and they bring us shame and guilt and whatever, but that's not really what they are. They're just like doorways to another life. And so I wanted to dramatize that in a book. And so it's true of every layer of the book. Yeah.

Zibby Owens (7:22)

Well, even though the book is about Jess. It's also about Uncle Louie and what happens with his life and some of his decisions. And as he, you know, this is fairly on. I feel like I'm not giving too much away. I don't know. But, you know, when he passes away very sort of dramatically, and she finds out all of this stuff about her uncle, who's basically like her dad. I mean, they're so close and he's been such a role model to her. And then she has to uncover all these sort of family secrets that lay dormant. And yet you put it all under the context of, like, the marble industry, which who knows anything about, which is so fascinating. Talk about that relationship, the uncle niece relationship, which, by the way, does not get a lot of airtime in fiction.

Adriana Trigiani (8:10)

No. Well, you have the are. And eventually I dedicated it to my four uncles that have passed away, that each one were very different people, but I got something from each of them. And when I dived into the relationship between Uncle Louie and Jess, you find that there's a level of honesty there that you can't have with anybody else. And she is in the family business with him, so they're the last two men standing. Her mother's complicated. Her Uncle Louis tried to give his sister a job. She just was terrible with the public, but he can't tell her that. And they go on and off from not speaking. I don't know if in your family do people not speak or is that an Italian thing? Do they go to the island? We send them to the island. That's when we're not talking to them.

Zibby Owens (8:56)

Go to the island and we all speak. It's what's not said. I think that's interesting.

Adriana Trigiani (9:01)

Okay, that's fascinating. Okay, well, this is true, too. Well, what's not said and then not and then holding a grudge when maybe if we spoke, we could work it out, but this is how they deal with things. And they never, when they start resume speaking, would they solve the problem. So it was repeated. And there's this idea that this kind of behavior reverberates in life. So she's going to have to make a break with that somehow. Even though Uncle Louie isn't here to work it out with, he's present through the whole book, but he isn't present physically through the whole book. So as she's working it out and she makes a determination that she needs help, she can't do this on her own. So she's the first person since the Etruscans in this family that went to see A therapist. But she doesn't go to see him in an office. She goes online. Yeah. And of course her mother says, go to the priest. It's free.

Zibby Owens (9:59)

What's it called? Like, True Tech or something? I don't know. New step.

Adriana Trigiani (10:02)

Theramy.

Zibby Owens (10:03)

Theramy. Oh, my gosh. Okay, I know what new step is. Yes. Which is also fascinating. We can all use a little help, I'm sure.

Adriana Trigiani (10:10)

Why not? You write your problem down in the morning and you call somebody, hey, what do I do about this? Got any ideas? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Perfect.

Zibby Owens (10:18)

I found myself kind of wanting Jess to get back together with her ex. I don't know why. And I was like, why did she do that? And you say at the start that, like, the whole town wanted them to reconcile, Right? Like a huge movement. And, you know, as someone who's divorced, I'm like, oh, no, no, no. They should not reconcile. There's a reason. Da, da, da. But then as it kept going on, I was like, but wait, I don't know. Where's this going?

Adriana Trigiani (10:43)

Well, you know, there's a. There's a moment in the book when they realize what they mean to each other. And sometimes, you know, Sibi, we don't. We don't know. To me, just between us two girls here, I think it's a mystery what makes a marriage work. I mean, you could say communication and this and that, but it's just sort of something you sort of know. It's the same feeling you get when you know you need to get out of a relationship that you. You can't stay in it another minute. If you do, you'll just shrivel up and die. I mean, so those two energy fields fed this novel, too, because I wanted her to reconcile that. That she could love or appreciate or not her ex husband and maybe get back together with him if they were at a different place. But as the novel unspools, you find out what happened, and it's the way they. She reacted and he reacted to this trauma. And it was never going to work, right? Or maybe it would, but she'd have to be the master of her destiny. So for the listener, you're going to get a very beefy choice here between two people for her. And I kept saying to the publishers, my beautiful publishers at Penguin Random House, at Dutton, kept saying to those folks, hey, this is a self love story. This is about somebody who has to. She's not going to navigate this through a relationship. She's going to navigate it through her life experience.

Zibby Owens (12:18)

Very interesting. Plus, you Throw in not only the travel through self and identity, but literal travel, where you take us. You do take us out of New Jersey. Thank you very much. I mean, not that there's anything wrong with New Jersey, but, you know, everybody likes a little travel. Grab the passport. So you do offer us that sort of escape. And through Jess eyes. And what can we learn from other cultures? And where is our happy place in life?

Adriana Trigiani (12:42)

There's an Italian sculptor, a young sculptor named Jago. J A G O. Some say Iago, some say Jago.

Zibby Owens (12:51)

Let's say Iago.

Adriana Trigiani (12:52)

Let's say Iago. He's Italian, and they call him the modern Michelangelo. And I was invited, or Michelangelo, and I was invited to a screening of the film about his life and his creations. And he has created or did a new. The idea of marble. When it. It seems sheer, like fabric, you know, like Michelangelo did. But here's the thing, Zibby. All that marble came from one source on one mountain. And it shall until the end of time. They will never use up the marble on that mountain. It is sheared off. It is not blasted anymore. It hasn't been blasted since the 70s. It's cut. These men. I explain all of that because I am fascinated by the craftsmanship of this. The idea of marble is that it's very durable. Obviously, that David is still standing. It's very durable. But if you just tap it in the wrong way, turns to dust. And she observes this. Jess Barrata observes this. That. That's her. Her heart, really herself, her soul, like. It's like a woman. You tap it just in the wrong way. Goodbye. We are finished, right? And I loved how that she's a draftsman. We should say that. Which I got into that. If you go to New Jersey, there's a lot of Italian marble there because that's the port where it comes in. So there's a lot of marble. Carrara marble. We should say Carrara, Italy and Tuscany. So it's all part of the whole waft and weave of who she is. It's like her life with her family, her parents, her brother, her sister, her. You know, the idea that maybe someday she'll have children, their children. She's the maiden aunt. Even though she's been married. She is the sister who is going to end up being the caretaker in our Italian heritage. There's always one that stays home and does that or becomes a nun or flight attendant in one of those careers. And if that's the case, you know, then we have a story about somebody who has to say oh, that's the role you put me in, but that's not the role I necessarily want to live. And so that's really what it's about. Because a lot of us are walking through life, there's a line out the door. People want to tell us how to do what we do, but that's not the way to do it. The way to do it is it for it to be self motivated. What fills you up? What makes you complete? Who is your life partner where it's not dictated by a culture. Just because he's the cutest guy in town and he's the most prosperous doesn't mean you have to marry him.

Zibby Owens (15:33)

Let that echo throughout the townspeople.

Adriana Trigiani (15:37)

That's right. In that town. Yeah, exactly right. Exactly right.

Zibby Owens (15:42)

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Adriana Trigiani (20:04)

Well, that's an interesting question. Zip. I. I am someone I'm going to be really honest where I love what I do so much. That was my always my focus. So you know, crushes this or that and I really married the man I fell in love with. I did not fall in love with anybody else. Now is that weird People are going to write in because but and I'm going to take it a step further. I don't really like the that fact feeling of falling in love. There are people who are addicted to it. It made me sick. It's dizzying to me. Evidently something chemically happens in your brain and like. And while I love him and I'm still with him and we're married and all of that. I know you experienced this with Kyle, but it's like. It's a thing. It's like that. You know that I don't question it. Right when you start to question it. Well, you know what I say? Check the exits. Check the exit. Get the hell out of Dodge.

Zibby Owens (21:01)

Okay, wait. That's so interesting, the idea that one could be essentially allergic to falling in love. Isn't that a story in itself? You have to keep running away from love.

Adriana Trigiani (21:12)

Yeah. It's not that it wasn't pleasurable, but I found it very odd. I found it and then I've had friends tell me they love that feeling of that roller coaster for the first, you know, six weeks or whatever. And I'm like. For me, maybe I just don't like heights, I don't know. But it's just. I like the abiding part of love, of the mistake making part and the not being my best every day and then trying to do better. And you, you really know, if you love someone when they get sick, if they drive you crazy, better check the exits. I mean, but if you find yourself naturally, everything falls away. And I am caring for this person. I think that's a pretty good. Do you agree? I think that's a good indicator.

Zibby Owens (22:05)

I mean, do we have to extend this to dental work?

Adriana Trigiani (22:08)

No.

Zibby Owens (22:08)

Okay, then yes, I agree.

Adriana Trigiani (22:10)

That's the worst. That's the worst pain on the planet. Yeah. That's funny. No, I think that's what I like to wrestle with when I'm writing novels. I don't get to live everything, but I certainly can imagine everything. And if I can imagine it, then I can write it. And if I can write it, then I can make something manifest for the audience, for the reader, for the woman reading the book.

Zibby Owens (22:35)

So when you kept going back and writing more and more into this book on a day where maybe you didn't feel like writing so much, what was it that kept calling you to it?

Adriana Trigiani (22:45)

Well, you know, when you're in one of those places where it seems sort of hard, look down the road of your plot a little bit, and what you're gonna. This is just true of me for the writers listening, but I pull the scene that's waiting for me forward, and I actually did it. When we were editing the big Stone Gap movie, the editor had Reached a. He was bollocks up. And I went, take that scene there, put it here. And once we did that, then we had a path. So a lot of times it's not about staying stuck and trying to push through the stuck, but pull something forward that you know you're going to do. Because a lot of times what writers do is they know they have this big scene coming, so there's a build to it. Do the big scene, see what happens. Then you can. Then you can move it around and play with it.

Zibby Owens (23:32)

Excellent advice.

Adriana Trigiani (23:33)

Yeah. For me, in the book, there's. There's two. It's two, like, we call them comedy block scenes in television and film, but it's. They're. They're the family. Everybody's there. And so you have a myriad of voices, which. I love those scenes, like where there's a party and somebody shouts something. I love them. And there your clues are in that scene. Because from the big scene, you'll see where you paired off people and then that create. That can create the entree into the scene.

Zibby Owens (24:04)

So just basically write a party, write.

Adriana Trigiani (24:06)

A party, write a meal. Write people creating something together, something that they're doing that is a common purpose, and you'll find it in there.

Zibby Owens (24:17)

Like marble, perhaps.

Adriana Trigiani (24:20)

Getting that marble. Did you just love that scene when the marble's coming up? I wouldn't watch that happen. I love that marble coming off that tankard.

Zibby Owens (24:27)

I was literally thinking through this whole. I was like, oh, my gosh, how much research did she have to do? Like, did she know any of this before? Did you. I mean, this is a lot of detail.

Adriana Trigiani (24:36)

Well, I knew a little bit. A little bit. Just from my travels to Italy. I knew a little bit, but then I wanted to understand how they sell it, get it off the map. This also is interesting to me, like, how do they do that? Because I had my great grandfather David, which is David in Italian. David Perrine of Venice. Venetian. He was from the Veneto. He only had three fingers on one hand. And he took a job. He was a farmer. He ended up to be quite prosperous. Zippy. He, like, did a whole thing on the. Where he bought this piece of land in Pennsylvania. Just kept adding to it. He was very American, entrepreneurial, even though he was Italian. Venetian. Anyway, there's a whole story to how he lost those fingers in a quarry, Slate quarry in Pennsylvania. Because the most. The worst job in a quarry is the blaster, is the guy who handles the dynamite. And one of it was not stacked properly and it blew his fingers off. Well, I didn't mean to ruin our day, but learned to manage with the three. He was great, but that. I always wanted to understand how that happened. And so when I went to Carrara, now they shear it, okay? They block it. Shear. It's almost like they put points in it and they take it off, like in blocks in the old days. They blew it up and then what came down that wasn't shattered, they used and they realized they were wasting. So that. See, that's the stuff I get into. It's like. And going up the mountain and, well, where were the offices? I went in a trailer and that conjured all those scenes and the historian who's along for the ride and what all that meant and how she. She didn't know where her career was going to go. She didn't know where it was going to go. She knew. She knew how to do what she did, which was draft. But maybe there's something else for her.

Zibby Owens (26:36)

I feel like that analogy also applies to writing. Like, at first, you just keep blowing things up, and then as you get better, you can, like, fine tune it a little bit.

Adriana Trigiani (26:45)

You can see what's under. It's under better. But that takes time. That really takes time. You're making a great point about writing because you can know something for sure. You think. And then you get it down and you go, oh, that's not where this is supposed to go. And you work it out. You figure it out.

Zibby Owens (27:07)

So you spend your time writing, but you also are uplifting authors, talking to people, podcasts. You do so many different things.

Adriana Trigiani (27:15)

Well, you're my sister in crime with this.

Zibby Owens (27:18)

I'm just saying.

Adriana Trigiani (27:19)

Which I love, because you're a writer. Writer. You're a novelist, and you do this. Okay, look, I started doing this six years ago. I was terrible. And like, we, we. We get better as we do it, but I'm just deeply curious and I would have these conversations. Anyway, so I just started to think. A book comes in and I. And I get really interested. Like, like tomorrow I'm talking to David Litt about. About surfing. I wouldn't any more surf than the man in the moon. It's riveting. Today, Susan Morrison, who wrote the biography of Lorne Michaels, you've had these folks on. So you know them and their books are revelatory. And if I can help sell them for them, whatever I can do, I want to do that because put it in the hands of librarians, put it in the hands of readers, put it in the hands of people who want to Discuss things. You know, my mom was a librarian, and she said there's an answer for every problem in the world in the library. Any problem we have, you know, personal, spiritual, emotional, practical. There's a manual or there's a book or there's a point of view. So I love. I love doing it. So it's a lot of work that Zibby. We. We always call you Saint Zibby behind your back because we don't know how you do it. I. I like. I'm always. When I'm on an airplane, I've got three books with me I gotta finish or I gotta. You know. And you can paint it however you want, which is the beauty of this. But it's a huge service to the reader, to the listener right now. It really is, and I thank you for it. I think it's great.

Zibby Owens (28:55)

Well, I thank you, too. And I think, like you, I am also curious. And so, yes, of course, we're doing this for authors, but also for ourselves because it's so fascinating.

Adriana Trigiani (29:04)

Your brain gets. Don't you feel you're a better writer because you read at the volume you read at? That's the shocker to me, because when I was writing my novels and we were raising family, I didn't read a lot of fiction. I was writing it, so I didn't have time to read it. I enjoy it now. I really enjoy your work. I enjoy it, which I didn't have the chance to do before.

Zibby Owens (29:31)

Well, I did really love this book of yours, I have to say. It was really good.

Adriana Trigiani (29:35)

I loved that you loved it, and I love you and I thank you so much, because. Little trip to Italy. Not that. Couldn't you. Couldn't we always a trip to Italy? Always, always.

Zibby Owens (29:44)

When you lead a retreat there, Sign me up. I'm gonna come.

Adriana Trigiani (29:48)

Okay, baby. You got it. You got it. You got it.

Zibby Owens (29:50)

Congratulations.

Adriana Trigiani (29:51)

Thank you. Thank you.

Zibby Owens (29:52)

I'm so excited for you.

Adriana Trigiani (29:53)

Okay, thank you.

Zibby Owens (29:54)

Thank you. Bye.

Adriana Trigiani (29:55)

Take care, sweetie. I'll see you soon.

Zibby Owens (29:57)

You too. Okay. Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram, ibioens and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.

Adriana Trigiani (30:20)

With new McValue and McDonald's, you get more than you expect. So after a long day, buy a double cheeseburger and add a McChicken for a dollar, because saving with deals is always on the menu. With new MCvalues, prices and participation may vary valid for item of equal or lesser value. ACAST powers the World's best Podcasts Here's a show that we recommend do you like being educated on things that entertain but don't matter? Well, then you need to be listening to the Podcast with Knox and Jamie. Every Wednesday we put together an episode dedicated to delightful idiocy to give your brain a break from all the serious and important stuff. Whether we're deep diving a classic movie, dissecting the true meaning behind the newest slang, or dunking on our own listeners for their bad takes or cringy stories, we always approach our topics with humor and just a little bit of side eye. And we end every episode with recommendations on all the best new movies, books, TV shows or music. To find out more, just search up the Podcast with Knox and Jamie wherever you listen to podcasts and prepare to make Wednesday your new favorite day of the week.

Zibby Owens (31:24)

ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere.

Adriana Trigiani (31:29)

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