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- [00:00]
Zibby Owens
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Zibby Owens
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Zibby Owens
30 days of activation will have Boost service fees refunded, activation fees if applicable, and phone payments will not be refunded Today's episode has been sponsored by Digipod. As someone who's passionate about books and authors, I'm always excited to share resources that can help bring your stories to life. That's why I am thrilled to tell you about Digipod, a print on demand company that truly understands what authors need to make that happen. Here's what I love about Digipod. They don't just print your books and send you on your way. Their team holds your hand throughout the entire process with incredible customer service. They deliver professional grade printing quality, consistently beat their competitors turnaround times and they can handle rush orders. They simplify the whole printing process and make it incredibly easy to achieve your vision for your books. Head over to Digipod Zibby that's D I G G Y p o d com Zibby set up a free 15 minute printing consultation and get 10% off your first print order. You'll talk with their experts who will walk you through exactly how to set up your print job and answer all your questions. And by the way, I've seen the books and they are amazing looking. If you've been thinking about printing your book, this is the support you want. Again, that's digipod.com Zibby for your free consultation. Today's episode is sponsored by Gab. When my kids are at school and I can't believe it's almost back to school time. How is this even possible? I don't want social media or phones to distract them from learning and friendship, but with all the logistics of pickups and practice and drop offs and rehearsals and whatever, our kids need a phone and I think all parents feel this way. We want our kids to be able to get a hold of us when they need to, and frankly, we want the peace of mind that comes from knowing we can reach them. But teens spend an average of 9 hours a day on screens outside of school and that's basically a full time job just scrolling mindlessly, which is obviously terrible. The US Surgeon General warns that kids who spend more than three hours a day online are twice as likely to have depression and anxiety. I don't want my kids to have depression and anxiety. And it's unbelievable. 45% of girls and 32% of boys feel overwhelming stress from being on social media. So here's the good news. A company called Gab has solved this problem by doing something no one else is doing. Their approach is Tech in Steps. Tech in Steps works by providing kids safe phones and watches with no social media, tailored to every age, offering the right device at the right time. From GPS tracking enabled watches for young kids to increased features and parent enabled apps on the phones for tweens and teens. And each device allows them to safely grow their independence. By the way, it also looks just like a real adult phone, but it's a Gab phone and so my kids are super excited about it and I'm excited because I get constant communication. The app even tells me when their batteries are running low and it's all so easy to use. Bottom line, you don't have to give your kid a device that was made for an adult this school year. Get them Gab which keeps them socially connected skills safely. This means no social media and no Internet apps. I really can't recommend Gab enough. Use my code to get the best deal on something that will make parenting easier and give you peace of mind throughout the school year. Visit gab.com totallybooked and use code totallybooked for a special back to school offer. That's G A B B G A B B Gab Hi, this is Zibby Owens and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby. Formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to stay in the know, get insider insights and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbemedia.com and follow me on Instagram ibyoans Ali Rady is the pen name of writing BFFs Alison Hammer and Bradley Godfrey. The Beach Trap was their first book together. Alison lives in Chicago and works as a VP Creative Director at an advertising agency. She's the author of youf and Me and Us and and Little Pieces of Meat. Bradley lives with her family in Utah where she works as a physician. She is the author of the psychological thriller Imposter. Welcome, ladies. I am so excited to be with quote, unquote, Ali Brady, the pen name for the two of you. So excited. Battle of the Bookstores. Congratulations.
- [05:52]
Alison Hammer
Thank you so much.
- [05:53]
Brady Godfrey
Thank you so much.
- [05:54]
Zibby Owens
I know this isn't coming out on pub day, but it's just so nice to be here with you on pub day. So yay.
- [05:59]
Alison Hammer
You can't think of a better way to start the day. So thank you for having us. Aw.
- [06:03]
Zibby Owens
Okay, both of you introduced yourselves and I will have already read your. I already read your bios, but just like so people know who's talking and all of that.
- [06:11]
Alison Hammer
Perfect. Well, my name is Alison Hammer and I am the Ally half of Ally Brady.
- [06:15]
Brady Godfrey
And I'm Brady Godfrey. And I'm the Brady half.
- [06:18]
Zibby Owens
Amazing. So excited to have you together. Tell listeners what Battle of the Bookstores is about.
- [06:24]
Alison Hammer
So the shortest version is that it's the Hating Game meets you've Got Mail. That's how we've been describing is about two bookstores that have existed side by side for decades. One, Happy Endings is a romance only bookstore and then Tabula and Scripta sells more literary fiction. So they've, you know, coexisted fine, until one day the same person buys both of them and wants to combine them into one bookstore. But only one person can be manager. So suddenly the managers are in competition. But things get more complicated when things.
- [06:56]
Brady Godfrey
Get complicated because unbeknownst to these two managers of the different bookstores, they have struck up an online friends on an anonymous bookseller forum and they've been chatting for months. And as their rivalry gets hotter in real life, their online friendship gets softer and sweeter and more vulnerable. And at some point the truth has got to come out. And then, you know, we'll have to see what happens.
- [07:19]
Zibby Owens
Oh my gosh, I love it. Even I didn't actually know until. Because you don't reveal that they are actually email with each other until a little bit later. And then I was like, oh my gosh. Stuff. Really? I couldn't believe it. And then I'm like, of course I should have seen that coming, but I didn't. But any. That was great. And also, I love, as a bookstore owner, love the bookstore stuff. You know, every. All the details, how much you're carrying stuff. I mean, like. Like all the things like the boxes of books, but also the excitement of, like, opening a new box of books and just all the details. Because so much, of course, obviously goes into owning a bookstore. How did the two of you gather all that insider intel on bookstore life?
- [08:02]
Alison Hammer
You know, we have gotten to be friends with a lot of booksellers, including you, and just were very. We had some conversations and we paid attention to what, you know, when we would have events, what they were dealing with, and. And just, you know, we did a little bit of research, talking to people, but I don't know, it just.
- [08:19]
Brady Godfrey
We had. We got. We had beta readers also, and we asked for beta readers who have been booksellers, and that was really helpful, too.
- [08:25]
Alison Hammer
Yeah. I'll tell you, one of the best reviews that we got was from a bookseller who was like, these guys got it right because, you know, my day job is in advertising. And advertising is the job that they give, like, almost everybody in, like, Hollywood movies and things like that. And they always get it so wrong for how it actually is. So the fact that they. That, you know, people think it's authentic, you know, we felt really good about that.
- [08:46]
Zibby Owens
Now I love it. And of course, just highlighting bookstores in general is so smart and awesome, particularly indies. And like, this is literally the consolidation, the, you know, story. What happens when we make conglomerates and what do you lose? So I feel like, yes, it's about one relationship, but it's really about. So it's a societal commentary as well. What do you all think about small versus big? And also the greed, because that's also a piece of this.
- [09:20]
Alison Hammer
We say all the time that booksellers are the unsung heroes of the industry. So Brady and I both have solo books, and my debut came out in April of 20. And the biggest loss of that was not having booksellers and bookstores being open to hand sell books like they're trusted, they are voracious readers. And, you know, whether they're at a bigger store or a smaller store, just, we think they're heroes. But there's been a trend with romance only bookstores, and we are here for it. And the romance, romance reads in general have just like, they've always been like, the lifeblood of the publishing industry, but it feels like they're getting more Respect now.
- [09:55]
Brady Godfrey
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's so fun. We've traveled around to a bunch of different bookstores, including your adorable bookstore, and seeing how so many. They all have their own personalities, they all have their own little quirks, and they all make their own communities, and it makes it really special.
- [10:09]
Alison Hammer
You are actually the inspiration for something. And we talked about this on another. In another interview. So one of the things that I love about Zivi's Bookshop is how you organize the shelves and how you do it. And, like, you know, these are stories about sisterhood or for recently divorced women or all those different things. And so that was the inspiration for how Ryan organizes Happy endings by, you know, there's a big conversation with between him and Josie over our friend Shelby Van Pelt's book. Like, where do you shelve it? And to Josie, it's like, well, in the Alphabet. But Ryan thinks, like, just of creative ways to categorize books. So it was. You guys were the inspiration for that.
- [10:45]
Zibby Owens
That's amazing. Wow. Our shelving in fiction, that's one for the books. So you tell the story from two perspectives, alternating. When did you make that decision? Tell me a little bit about that. And do each of you write one of the characters? How do you do that?
- [11:06]
Alison Hammer
Yeah. So this is our fourth book together, and we started out as critique partners before we wrote together. And so we have just a very natural way of working together. But the way that we do it is we each take one character that we own. We were going to do it a little differently this time, but it really does help to just embody that character and to really think about them. We plot. We have crazy plotting sessions, and we do a lot of work on the character growth and development and wounds and all that stuff. And then. Do you want to talk about how we do the actual writing?
- [11:39]
Brady Godfrey
So we create a really, really detailed outline, and then we divide up the characters like we said. One will take the point of view of the other one and the other of the other, and then we'll each. Typically, we draft a chapter a week. And so we'll each draft a chapter from our character's point of view and then swap it. And then we edit each other. So we're constantly drafting and then editing and then drafting and editing and back and forth and back and forth. And so it really. By the end, we have touched every single word on every single page multiple times, both of us.
- [12:05]
Alison Hammer
But it's interesting because our, you know, as we've gone, our characters have gotten closer and Closer and closer. And in our debut, the Beach Trap, they were half sisters who were estranged and didn't have a ton of chapters together. And then in the Comeback Summer, they were sisters who lived and worked together. And then in this one, they're like a couple who ends up, you know, sleeping together. So it's very like. But it's interesting because our characters have more page time with each other. So, like, when I would write a scene with her character, she would go in and be like, well, no, they wouldn't say that. And vice versa. So it really is a collaboration in every sense.
- [12:40]
Zibby Owens
And you don't disagree. You're just basically on the same page most of the time, all the time.
- [12:44]
Alison Hammer
No, no.
- [12:45]
Brady Godfrey
Yeah.
- [12:45]
Zibby Owens
Oh, yeah.
- [12:45]
Brady Godfrey
No, we never. Of course we disagree. Yeah, of course we disagree. I mean, I think that's part of the. Anytime you work with any other person that you, like, love and trust and respect, like, yes, you're still going to disagree, but also you love and trust and respect them. And so you're like, all right, I guess if this isn't working, then we're going to have to figure out another way to make it work. So I think it makes it stronger. I think our drafts, by the time we finish our drafts, I think are much stronger than if we were on our own.
- [13:07]
Alison Hammer
And we both, like, you know, if there are. If we both have a different idea about something or we don't agree on something, then we'll find a different way. Or sometimes if it's like, that's not working, then that means we haven't done the best job of explaining what was in our heads, like, on the page. And I really think we had an event last night where someone was asking about the plot. And we really do co create the plot together. We go chapter by chapter coming up with it. So if there are, like, disagreements, we usually are pretty good at working through it. And Brady had a really good idea. We've only used it once, but we each get one veto on each book. So a change.
- [13:42]
Brady Godfrey
No questions asked.
- [13:43]
Alison Hammer
No questions asked.
- [13:44]
Brady Godfrey
No discussion, Just veto.
- [13:45]
Alison Hammer
Yeah. And we've only used it once, but.
- [13:48]
Zibby Owens
Like, again, wait, what was vetoed?
- [13:53]
Brady Godfrey
We could tell. We could tell you if you want.
- [13:55]
Zibby Owens
I want to know.
- [13:58]
Alison Hammer
So in our. In our first book, the Beach Trap, we had, like, not even a side character. She was, like, on the page for, like, a page.
- [14:06]
Brady Godfrey
Very few pages. And she was the real estate agent trying to sell these girls, sell this book or sell this house that they inherited.
- [14:12]
Alison Hammer
And Brady wanted to name the character.
- [14:15]
Brady Godfrey
I wanted to Name the character something funny and random. And so what did I pick?
- [14:18]
Alison Hammer
She picked Randy Beaver.
- [14:19]
Brady Godfrey
Randy Beaver?
- [14:20]
Alison Hammer
Yes.
- [14:21]
Brady Godfrey
So, so the joke was that, you know, if, if somebody is, you know, brave enough to put that on her business cards, then, you know, she'll do a great job selling this house. So Randy Bieber.
- [14:30]
Alison Hammer
Except that my dad is Randy Hammer. And like, I just was like, it just feels too similar and like, it just, you know, I was uncomfortable with it. And then I asked my dad, he's like, yeah, I don't know about it. And Brady's like, no, it's funny. And then we had a beta reader who read it and was like, like Randy Hammer. And I'm like, see? So we, we ended up naming her Harriet Beaver, which is still funny, but just not, not Randy with my dad. So really big disagreements.
- [15:01]
Zibby Owens
Oh my gosh, that's really funny. Well, I'm glad you found your way through that mess and got to the other side of it. So how do you do the pacing of your own careers versus your joint projects and various publishers? And how are you managing that?
- [15:17]
Alison Hammer
Well, we each have a different agent and they work together, which is really great. And so I think it creates more opportunity because they both have different strengths and they both have different networks and things like that. And honestly, it's a little bit. You go where the energy is going. So. We've been very, very lucky with the Ally Brady books. Having this is our fourth one in four years.
- [15:39]
Zibby Owens
Wow.
- [15:40]
Alison Hammer
And we both have other books and we're always working on the side. Like I've got a project I'm working on and Brady has a project she's working on. And a lot of times we still critique for each other on our separate projects. And we also both have full time jobs and Brady has four kids and two dogs and a stray cat who is now her cat. So we, you know, we're creative people and I think that, you know, you know, I mean, you have like the.
- [16:06]
Brady Godfrey
You know how it is where you can't stop doing the things that you love, you know?
- [16:10]
Zibby Owens
I know, but I'm like, wait, you also have full time jobs? Go back to that part.
- [16:16]
Alison Hammer
Yeah. And, and Artists Against Anti Semitism. Like, there's, there's so much stuff and so. But we love it. And it's, we both have a crazy work ethic and having a deadline and being accountable, I think it really helps that like, I will let myself down, no problem, but I don't want to let her down. And so we keep on, we keep on track, we keep on schedule. We write nights and weekends and just.
- [16:41]
Brady Godfrey
Find time for it.
- [16:42]
Alison Hammer
It's so fun. Like we it's hard, but it's just I feel like we're so lucky to do it so that we put the work in when we need to.
- [16:50]
Zibby Owens
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- [18:15]
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Zibby Owens
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- [19:23]
Zibby Owens
Wait. Four kids, full time job, books on your own. Not to minimize at all. I know, Alison, you have so much on your plate too, but just the logistics of the kids. When are you doing this? Are they asleep? Are you doing it before they wake up? Do you have a great partner who takes them?
- [19:40]
Brady Godfrey
Yes, I have a great partner.
- [19:41]
Alison Hammer
Nate is wonderful.
- [19:42]
Brady Godfrey
My kids are older now. I mean, I've been writing for, you know, a good eight years or something seriously. And working on this. And so when they were younger it was like, you know, naps and late nights. Now they're older. So a lot of times it's like, you know, they have friends over or they're playing yard or whatever. And so I'm just have my laptop and I'm just hanging out. So now I feel like it's easier to just. They need like the mom around to kind of. But you don't have to watch them or entertain them anymore really.
- [20:07]
Alison Hammer
And it's been fun for me. I don't have kids, I just have. I have two nephews who are amazing. But like, I feel like an aunt to Brady's kids. And like, you know, we would be on zooms all the time and like the kids would come in, you know, and say, hey, Mom. And I'm like, hi. And it's just been. Been really fun. Her kids are awesome and so is her husband.
- [20:24]
Zibby Owens
Amazing. Oh my gosh. And Alison talk a little more about artists against antisemitism, which of course is how we've really connected more in the space. Space. You know, when all of that started.
- [20:35]
Alison Hammer
Yeah, we, I had reached out to you on Instagram in the days following October 7th, and we wanted to have just a support group of other Jewish authors and like it, what it has become is beyond anything that I can ever imagine. And on our very first Zoom, you were the one who was like. Because we started with doing an auction and you're like, guys, this is bigger than this. Like, we have so much combined power and connections and talent. Like there's more we can do. And from that zoom, we're now officially a 501C3. We have a lot of amazing stuff in the works. And then of course we, a lot of us were able to contribute to On Being Jewish now, which you came up with and edited and are generously donating the profits to Artists Against Anti Semitism. And I just have to say it is has been such a silver lining in this really hard time and your support and friendship and community that you've created. I'm going to get emotional. It just really means a lot.
- [21:29]
Zibby Owens
It means a lot to me, too. It's been quite a time. And you are no fearless leader of really taking this nonprofit to the next level. It's just been amazing to watch.
- [21:43]
Alison Hammer
Brady's been an ally throughout the whole thing. Thank you, Brady. And she wrote Josie, the character who's Jewish, and she passed a TikTok quiz on Jewish stuff.
- [21:52]
Brady Godfrey
I picked up things along the way.
- [21:53]
Alison Hammer
Yeah, it's been great. And, you know, it's interesting because this is our pub days is June 3, and it's following the incident, the attack in Boulder. And I had a moment where it's like, how. How can I. How can I promote this book when, like, my heart is breaking and we're scared and all these things? And somebody commented about right now we're all living double lives. And like, this book, we work too hard on it. We're too proud of it to, like, not do our job and, like, promote it. But I'm like, so like, you know, my heart is breaking. But we're, you know, excited to be able to share this book. And it has Jewish representation and there's, you know, so just the life we live right now.
- [22:35]
Zibby Owens
I think there should be no conflict about putting a book into the world. I was just saying this to the summer reads party that unfortunately you couldn't come to, but somebody was like, how could I go out with my pub day? And da da. I'm like, people need escape more than ever right now. I mean, we all have to find our ways to get through the day and remember the joy of life and love and work we care about and joy and literally happy endings. So, I mean, the book is a tonic. It's a respite from the storm. I was literally thinking about posting, like, I think I've decided to be the person who plays the violin on the Titanic. Except that sounded like too bad, because I don't believe we are on the Titanic. I think we can repair and get better, but I've decided, like, you know, you still have to take the joy of life when you have it and whatever comes next, make it a party. So I feel like books are all about that.
- [23:38]
Alison Hammer
I love it and I would. If the party is hosted by you, I will be there in a heart but you know what? We're. I sat in a post the other day that, like, there's nothing more Jewish than celebrating joy and life and love. And like, that's what this book is. So it's an honor and it's exciting and we're so happy to talk to you about it.
- [23:54]
Zibby Owens
Yay. I'm so glad. Do you have a. And you can't say mine, but I would love it. But you know a favorite or go to bookstore that you would just be devastated if it were to be gone.
- [24:07]
Alison Hammer
All of them. I think that we have. We love so many indie bookstores. Like, we love, like, the ideas of them and they're all so different. We usually say our locals. For me, it's. It's volumes in. In Chicago and then I work in Annapol so park books out there and I.
- [24:25]
Brady Godfrey
My local is the King's English in Salt Lake City, Utah.
- [24:27]
Alison Hammer
But I have to tell you, we might have a new favorite. This coolest thing happened to us this weekend. A romance bookstore called the Hea Boutique in. Is it Marion? I think it's Marion, Iowa, issued a challenge on social media to another bookstore in their community and challenged them to see who could sell more copies of our book before pub day.
- [24:48]
Zibby Owens
Oh, my gosh.
- [24:49]
Alison Hammer
It was literally a battle of the bookstores.
- [24:52]
Zibby Owens
Oh, my gosh.
- [24:53]
Alison Hammer
And it benefited us and it benefited them.
- [24:55]
Brady Godfrey
Yeah, it was amazing.
- [24:56]
Alison Hammer
And I think in three days they sold like 60 copies between them, which is amazing for authors like us.
- [25:02]
Zibby Owens
Yeah.
- [25:03]
Alison Hammer
And for them. So it was Hea Boutique and Swampbox.
- [25:09]
Zibby Owens
That's so cool.
- [25:10]
Alison Hammer
So cool.
- [25:11]
Zibby Owens
Now all these people in Iowa are reading the book.
- [25:13]
Alison Hammer
I know.
- [25:14]
Zibby Owens
Who knew? Who knew? Oh, amazing. So what's your next collaborative project going to be?
- [25:20]
Alison Hammer
We're still figuring that out and working on it. We're on this. On this tour. We're taking a lot of train rides. We're doing a plane, a couple trains and a road trip. And so we've got our idea that we're really excited about and we're in the early stages, but it'll be bookish and romantic and bantery and anything else.
- [25:40]
Zibby Owens
We can say about it, I think it's going to be amazing. Well, I must say, I really connected to your characters. They were so fun to read. I'm kind of sad to be done with them for now. So thank you for creating such. It's like a hard to put down type of read with such accessible voices and fun and delight and all the bookstore stuff that's thrown in. It's just what a package. So congratulations. Thank you.
- [26:06]
Alison Hammer
And thank you for the inspiration of Zibby's books, because we love the store.
- [26:10]
Zibby Owens
Yay. All right. Enjoy the pub day and the tour and everything, and I'll be cheering for you.
- [26:15]
Alison Hammer
Thank you.
- [26:16]
Zibby Owens
Okay. All right, bye. Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review. Follow me on Instagram, ibbeowens and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.
- [26:41]
Freddy (Dungeons and Daddies ad voice)
Ready to order?
- [26:42]
Zibby Owens
Yes.
- [26:43]
Brady Godfrey
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Zibby Owens
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- [26:56]
Alison Hammer
Yes, chef.
- [26:57]
Zibby Owens
This is so nice. Had a feeling you'd want 3% cash back on desserts. Oh, tiramisu. Earn unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with the Capital One Saver Card.
- [27:07]
Freddy (Dungeons and Daddies ad voice)
Capital One, what's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capital1.com for details.
- [27:11]
Alison Hammer
Prime delivery is fast.
- [27:13]
Zibby Owens
How fast are we talking?
- [27:15]
Alison Hammer
We're talking puzzle toys and lick pad.
- [27:17]
Zibby Owens
Delivered so fast you can get this.
- [27:19]
Alison Hammer
Puppy under control fast.
- [27:21]
Zibby Owens
We're talking chew toys at your door without really waiting. Fast pads, cooling mat, peg, hammer. Fast and fast. And there's training T r e a.
- [27:26]
Alison Hammer
T s faster than you can say sit fast. And now we can all relax and.
- [27:31]
Zibby Owens
Order these matching hoodies to get cozy and cute.
- [27:34]
Alison Hammer
Fast, fast.
- [27:35]
Zibby Owens
Free delivery.
- [27:36]
Alison Hammer
It's on Prime.
- [27:41]
Freddy (Dungeons and Daddies ad voice)
Now you can fly anywhere in the world and pay discount prices on your airline tickets.
- [27:47]
Alison Hammer
Book a flight today to London, Paris, Madrid, or anywhere else you want to go. And pay a lot of less guaranteed.
- [27:55]
Freddy (Dungeons and Daddies ad voice)
Call the international travel department right now.
- [27:58]
Alison Hammer
At low cost airlines.
- [28:00]
Freddy (Dungeons and Daddies ad voice)
8002-1551-4180-0215-5141. That's 800-215-5141.