Book of the Month Club pick Sally Hepworth’s Mad Mabel

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Totally Booked with Zibby

Episode: Book of the Month Club pick Sally Hepworth’s Mad Mabel

Host: Zibby Owens
Guest: Sally Hepworth
Date: April 23, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this insightful and heartfelt episode, Zibby Owens returns to chat with frequent guest and New York Times bestselling author Sally Hepworth about her latest publication, Mad Mabel. The episode highlights the novel’s Book of the Month Club selection, its focus on female friendship, aging, trauma, and the power of community. Hepworth also shares personal reflections from her recent divorce, nourishing a rich conversation about resilience, relationships, and what it means to find your real “life partners.” The tone is candid, warm, and laced with humor and mutual respect.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introduction to Mad Mabel and Its Origins

[03:53–05:23]

• Hepworth summarizes Mad Mabel as a story about an 81-year-old woman, Mabel, once known as the youngest convicted murderer in Australia, who now lives in seclusion until her past resurfaces.
• The narrative alternates between Mabel’s present-day life and revelations about her extraordinary past through interviews with two young podcasters rather than traditional media.
• “She decides that it is time to tell her story and set the record straight.” – Sally Hepworth [04:27]

2. Exploring Love, Marriage, and “Life Partnerships”

[05:46–09:09]

• Zibby highlights a sharp exchange on marriage from the novel and asks Hepworth to elaborate on its themes.
• Hepworth discusses the importance of various partnerships beyond romance, especially friendships, and asserts that marriage is not the only—or always the most enduring—lifelong bond.
• “One of the things that I really wanted to delve into in this book is the different kinds of relationships that can be your life partner.” – Sally Hepworth [06:38]
• Hepworth reflects on cultural shifts, while Zibby muses about how society’s core structures like marriage might look vastly different in the future.

3. Trauma, Resilience, and Community

[09:15–12:26]

• An exploration of how trauma in childhood shapes individuals, especially as Hepworth researched cases where young girls committed serious crimes, noting a strong correlation with deep trauma.
• The discussion turns to the lifesaving power of supportive figures—be they family, friends, or teachers. Hepworth started writing the book after her own divorce, pondering the importance of having a “community.”
• “Sometimes one person… taking an interest in that child is enough to save them… If there’s no one else available, what happens?” – Sally Hepworth [10:27]

4. Personal Experience of Divorce and Platonic Female Love

[12:26–14:23]

• Both Zibby and Sally share personal experiences of divorce and the resulting “resorting” of relationships—how friends, especially long-standing female friendships, form an enduring support system.
• Hepworth asserts, “This is a love story. And there’s no purer form of love than platonic female friendship.” – Sally Hepworth [13:48]
• The book is dedicated to Hepworth’s best friend and salutes female friendship universally.

5. Centering Older Women & Generational Connection

[14:43–19:13, 23:22–25:46]

• Zibby praises Mad Mabel for making an 81-year-old woman a narrative hero, especially highlighting Mabel’s agency with new media.
• Hepworth reveals the inspiration for the character: a real-life 93-year-old fan who observed, “there are two groups of people never suspected of murder and those are old women and little girls.” That, she says, became the first line of the book. – Sally Hepworth [19:13]
• Hepworth enjoys writing about the intergenerational friendship between Mabel and Persephone (a child inspired in part by her own daughter), noting how children and elderly people can break down barriers and deeply affect each other.
• “Children can break down facades in a way that no one else can.” – Sally Hepworth [21:20]
• They reflect on real-world programs and research showing the benefits of connecting elderly and young children.

6. Navigating Public Divorce and Personal Healing

[26:13–29:20]

• Zibby asks about managing a high-profile divorce. Hepworth discusses overcoming the shame often associated with divorce and instead focusing on her children and letting her community support her.
• Hepworth describes the healing process and the realization that a romantic relationship is only “a piece of the story” and not the whole story.
• “I actually had healed myself and repaired that before I got into a relationship, and I was happy as myself with my girlfriends, with my career, with my children. Life was good. And it has forever reshaped how I look at a romantic relationship as a piece of the story, but not the whole story.” – Sally Hepworth [29:33]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Unconventional Partnerships:
  “There’s no purer form of love than platonic female friendship.” – Sally Hepworth [13:48]

• On Trauma & Community:
  “Sometimes one person… taking an interest in that child is enough to save them.” – Sally Hepworth [10:27]

• On Old Women & Little Girls:
  “There are two groups of people never suspected of murder and those are old women and little girls.” – Sally Hepworth, quoting her real-life inspiration [19:13]

• On Divorce and Resilience:
  “The people that stepped up for me, my girlfriends who I’ve been friends with my entire life, they’ve always been the life partner.” – Sally Hepworth [12:50]

• On Healing After Divorce:
  “It has forever reshaped how I look at a romantic relationship as a piece of the story, but not the whole story.” – Sally Hepworth [29:33]

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Important Timestamps

• [03:53–05:23]: Hepworth introduces Mad Mabel and its premise.
• [06:38]: On diverse life partnerships beyond marriage.
• [09:09–10:27]: Mabel’s traumas and the healing power of one supporter.
• [12:50]: The central role of female friendship.
• [19:13]: Inspiration for the character Mabel and the “invisible” nature of old women and young girls.
• [23:38]: On age, connection, and the vulnerability of children and elderly.
• [26:40]: Hepworth’s public handling of divorce and its aftermath.
• [29:33]: Reflections on romantic partnerships and personal recovery.

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Episode Tone and Style

Zibby and Sally’s conversation is open, reflective, warm, and frequently humorous. Both speak candidly about their personal lives, interweaving these stories with the novel’s themes. The episode is equal parts book chat and meaningful discussion on friendship, aging, and surviving adversity.

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Final Thoughts

If you’re interested in stories about complicated women, the messiness of real relationships—romantic and otherwise—and the ways that trauma and community shape our lives, this episode and Hepworth’s Mad Mabel are sure to resonate. Female friendship, the bonds across ages, and how we redefine “life partnership” take center stage in both the book and this candid, moving podcast conversation.

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Transcript

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[Zibby Owens]

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Hi, this is Zibbee Owens and you're

listening to Totally Booked with Zibby.

Formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time as a Bookstore owner, publisher, author, and obviously podcaster. I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to stay in the know, get insider insights and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbymedia.com and follow me on Instagram ibbeowens.

Sally Hepworth is the author of Mad A Novel. She has been on my podcast several times for her previous books including In Person in New York City. This one we did on Zoom. Sally Hepworth is the New York Times best bestselling author of nine novels, including the Soulmate and the Good Sister. It was fabulous to talk to her

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about her latest book.

[Zibby Owens]

She lives in Melbourne, Australia, which is why we were not in person this time. But don't worry, her books have been translated into about 20 languages and we talked about everything from her recent divorce to her love of writing and how she just does all of it. She is so outstanding and I am a huge, huge fan. Welcome Sally. Thanks so much for coming back on Totally Booked to talk about Mad Mabel. Congrats.

[Sally Hepworth]

Oh, my pleasure. Thank you for having me back.

[Zibby Owens]

Mad Mabel is such an amazing character. I can see a whole movie type situation about her. Her backstory, which unfolds throughout the book, is so great, kind of heartbreaking, but amazing. And I just love how you tied everything together. Oh my gosh. Anyway, it was a thrill to read.

[Sally Hepworth]

Yeah, thank you. That means so much. I'm excited for it to be out in the States and to hear what people think.

[Zibby Owens]

So do a little better of a job. Explain please what Mad Mabel is about.

[Sally Hepworth]

So Mad Mabel is a book about. Ostensibly it's about an 81 year old curmudgeon who lives on a little street in Melbourne, keeps herself to herself and doesn't really have a lot in the way of community with the exception of her best friend Daphne. And that is all blown up when she discovers that her next door neighbor has died. And through that the world discovers that at one time, a long time ago, she was known as Mad Mabel, who was the youngest person in Australia to ever be convicted of murder. And so, so she decides that it is time to tell her story and set the record straight. And so she speaks to a couple of podcasters and tells the story about whether she is in fact Mad Mabel and what really happened to her.

[Zibby Owens]

I love, by the way, that she has her choice of outlet and chooses like the two people with the YouTube channel instead of the traditional media. I'm like, all right, love it. I know.

[Sally Hepworth]

I love that, too. And I think it was also one of the things that she needed to feel safe and secure. And these two young people just brought, you know, the ability for her to do that.

[Zibby Owens]

Yeah, that was really, really amazing. You have this really funny scene about marriage. This is part of the way through the book. And Mabel, as a child, at times lived with Cess and Ness, and they were talking about marriage. And there's a scene where they're saying. They're saying, like, ugh, it's not worth getting married, blah, blah, blah. And it says. Ness says, love is wonderful. And some people do find that kind of love in marriage, but it isn't the only place you find love. I'd rather work at the library and pay my own way. But you might feel differently, Mabel, and that's your choice. Seth scoffed, In 50 years, this whole marriage malarkey will have gone the way of slavery. You mark my words. A stain on our history. The world is changing. There is no way women of your generation, intelligent, educated women, will continue to agree to the terms and conditions. Am I right, Mabel? So I read that, and I was like, you think? What do we think about that?

[Sally Hepworth]

Well, 50 years have passed and people are still getting married. And, yeah, look, I think it's interesting. And Mabel, of course, did live with Cess, who was her aunt, and Ness, who was her best friend. And one of the things that I really wanted to delve into in this book is the different kinds of relationships that can be your life partner. Know, and. And in this case, there was Mabel, and her life partner was her best friend, Daphne. In the case of Cess and Ness, they were each other's life partners. There are people who have their life partner is their dog, you know, or their life partner is their. Their friends from childhood, you know, maybe it's a parent. And I really also wanted to explore what happens if you don't have that. And marriage, of course, historically has been the life partner. It's been the one that we've always put as the number one. And if you lose your partner, then it's the spouse that's the chief mourner, you know, rather than the best friend or. Or someone else in their life, the brother, the sister. And I just wanted to, I guess, put it out there as another opinion that it isn't always. And what is the relationship? It is about just having one relationship. And so is marriage going to go by the wayside? I don't know. I think there is something that people will always continue wanting to do it. But maybe it will change. Maybe it will not always be the thing that it is today. I don't know.

[Zibby Owens]

I took a class in college about the institution of marriage and the predictions. Well, this was even before, I mean, not to make myself sound ancient, but before same sex marriage was allowed. And the prediction was, oh, that'll be allowed soon. But what of this entire institution? And so in the back of my head as like, life is gone, I'm like, I wonder what's going to happen with this institution of marriage. And then you have it in your book. So anyway, it's curious to think about things that we take for granted and how maybe the structure of society will look entirely different in a little bit. But anyway, that's just a small thing of the book. I just, you know, not a major theme or anything.

[Sally Hepworth]

No, it's a good question and it is a bit. It does speak to the fact that as we, as humans, we have this inclination to pair up still. You know, even when it perhaps doesn't have the same benefits as, you know, as it once did, or the same kind of relevance, we do have a desire to do it. And that is at the heart of the book as well.

[Zibby Owens]

In fact, that led to the unique relationship with Daphne and Mabel.

[Sally Hepworth]

Exactly.

[Zibby Owens]

So when Mabel was young, she had. And I don't want to give these away if they're major plot points later, but she goes through a lot of loss and a lot of change and not abandonment, but definitely feelings of, you know, not good feelings from people who she loves. And she has to make sense of that. Some in really traumatic ways, some right in front of her eyes. And it speaks to how do we get over things like this that happen to us and maybe even mischaracterization of some things. But how do we get past the events of our family and the events of our past and make our own lives? And like, what do you think about that?

[Sally Hepworth]

Yeah, well, I mean, I think one of the really, really interesting things that I found when researching this book was the. The absolute correlation of people who. And we know, of course, that. That Mabel was the youngest person to be convicted of murder. That says it on the back of the blurb that there's just this real link between trauma in childhood and of course, children who commit serious crimes. It doesn't happen a lot. It's very rare for it to. It's even rarer for it to be a little girl. And in the few cases that I did read about, one was a woman a little girl called Mary bell in the UK. And there was also two little girls in New Zealand in the 1950s who committed murder of one of their mothers. It is always at the. There's always been a lot of trauma in that, that child's life. And so how do they get over it? Sometimes they don't. But one thing that we do see is that sometimes one person, sometimes it's, you know, if it's not a parent, there's not a parent available. Sometimes it is an aunt, it's a, it's a teacher, it's a. Someone taking an interest in that child is enough to save them. You see that with foster care children and you know, even families that the children have all been through the same thing, but one of them makes it and it's because someone has had a special interest. But you know, if there's no one else available, what happens? And that's really where I started with this book and its exploration because, you know, reading this book and this ties back to marriage. I'd just been through a divorce at the time that I started writing this book. And so I really felt like that, that part of. I had a lot of support, I had family and I had my girlfriends who I have come to think of as my life partners. But I started to think, what if I didn't have them? You know, where would I be without these people? And you know, this was really an exploration of where, what you would do, where you would be. Would it end up in tragedy? Would someone come there for you? And so the book has got, in both the modern day story and also the past story, a real theme of community and what happens, you know, if it's not there for you and also how do we create it?

[Zibby Owens]

I've also been divorced and I've been remarried now for a number of years. How, what has, how has that affected your life? For me it was. Everything was in display and everything gets resorted as if like, you know, the things like it's like a basket of something and then it goes flying in the air and then it resettles and lands in different places.

[Sally Hepworth]

All over the floor.

[Zibby Owens]

Yeah, all over the floor.

[Sally Hepworth]

Yeah. It's a complete reset. It has and it still is resetting. You know, it's been a couple of years, but I have definitely looked at my life differently and my, obviously that the husband isn't the life partner, but I kind of realized that the people that stepped up for me, my girlfriends who I've been friends with my entire life, they've always been the Life partner. You know, whether or not people's marriages survive, it's not about maybe marriage being irrelevant, but it made me realize that they were always the ones that have been there for me before I got married. They're there after I, you know, got divorced. But even, you know, I'll be there for them after, you know, marriages end through death or. Or whatnot. We've always been each other's supporters. And so that is something that I will always fight for, that, that the importance of friendship, female friendship. And this book, it actually says quite early on this is a love story. And there's no purer form of love than platonic female friendship. And so, yeah, we explore that, obviously through Mabel and Daphne. And it's dedicated to my best friend, this book, and it's for female friendship everywhere. Because I think that is what saves us in these difficult times. That's what saved me in my divorce. And I feel like most of the women I know, when something, when the shit hits the fan, they're going to their girlfriends 100%.

[Zibby Owens]

I actually just interviewed Jessica George. I don't know if you've read her new book. It's called Love by the Book. It's all about a woman and her three best friends, and it's a love letter to female friendship. I feel like the two of you should do an event together or something. Very different books, but very similar themes in a way. I don't know, maybe you two would have a nice talk.

[Sally Hepworth]

She's British, but anyway, I love that.

[Zibby Owens]

Another cool thing about this book is making an older woman a hero of sorts. I mean, even if the book had ended after she climbed over the fence in, like, the first scene, like, that would have done the trick. But there was, of course, so much more, and particularly that she ends up taking the narrative into her own hands, really, and figures out how to, you know, deftly navigate new media and stake a new life, you know, carve out a new kind of life for herself now that she doesn't have to be in hiding anymore. Talk, talk about the perspective of an 81 year old and how you got into that frame. Headspace. Today's episode is sponsored by Wayfair. After the fire in the Palisades, we had to redo our entire outside area. And we found the best stuff on Wayfair. We found adorable throw pillows that looked fabulous. We found one round carpet, one square carpet. We found coffee tables and all sorts of things that made our outside feel like home again. Wayfair is amazing because it has everything you could possibly need and it's so easy to find. Wayfair made it so simple for us to narrow it down to what we wanted for our style and budget. It also features reviews, filters and visual tools that help us find the right fit. Every Style, Every Outdoor Space Whether your vibe is modern, coastal, farmhouse or eclectic, Wayfair has the options you need to help you create an outdoor space that's uniquely yours. And everything is in one place from outdoor seating and grills to storage, patio, lighting and rugs and decor, which is what we got. Wayfair is your one stop shop for Home Plus. You can trust in the delivery, installation and assembly services are available for a truly seamless experience. It was so easy for us to order and receive all of our items. Plus over 20 million verified 5 star reviews helped me make the right call. Real customers, real feedback and real homes. You can also shop with Wayfair Verified. Your shortcut to the good stuff. Their team of product specialists vets everything by hand using a 10 point quality inspection so you know you're getting a quality piece no matter your budget. Get prepped for patio season for For Way less head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I R.com Wayfair every style every Home Wayfair Every Style Every Home Today's

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[Sally Hepworth]

Yeah, I'm glad you enjoyed. I found it a really fun headspace to be in, although as you say, traumatic at times. I actually I. I've always had a great love for elderly women. Particularly I was very close to my great auntie Gwen who passed away a couple of years ago. She was not like Mabel, she was very tiny, whereas Mabel is a six foot tall granny, as she calls herself. And I found that a really interesting thing to deal with too. But I actually came up with the idea for the book when I was at a book event and I was signing books and there was a woman and she was 93 and she waited in the line until right at the end and people kept trying because she was so elderly, people kept trying to kind of let her through and she said, no, no, I'm going to wait. And she waited until the end and I was just sitting there with the books and she pulled up a chair and she sat down. I thought, whoa, what? What's going to happen? And I had been talking in the event about murder and how my books involve murder and blah blah blah. And she sat down and she said, I'm going to murder my next door neighbor. And I said, oh, how are you going to do it? Because I thought, oh, this is fantastic, I could use this in a book. And she said, well, I don't know how I'm going to do it, but I know that I'm going to get away with it. And I said, how do you know? And she said, because there are two groups of people never suspected of murder and those are old women and little girls. And that was the first line in the book and it was just too good a concept. I thought, nothing has never been done. We know that we are Constantly kind of reusing, reimagining. But I thought I haven't seen, seen that done a lot. And I know that I could really do something interesting with the idea of an old woman. I knew that I was going to go into her past because it's always about the why for me. You know, maybe she's done these things, but the why is what's interesting. And that's where the kind of meat of the story is. And so I, I knew I. She came to life for me very easily. She wasn't my great Auntie Gwen, she wasn't me. Some people say, is this future you? Oh no, I think I'm a bit sunnier than Mabel and I had quite a nice childhood. But it was one of those glorious kind of experiences that doesn't happen with every book where she was fully formed and I knew who she was and how she would react to things. And that's one of those things. When people ask me how about the how of writing? I don't know, I wish I knew because it doesn't happen every time. I wish I could kind of say this is how you do it. But some characters are special to write and she was one of those ones. Maybe because I was so fresh out of a divorce and I was raw maybe because it did take me a little bit longer to write this book than, than previous books. But I really felt like I knew her and I was just kind of unpeeling the layers of who she was rather than kind of. Rather than trying to invent it. And through the character of Persephone who we haven't mentioned, who's the little seven year old girl who lives across the road. No coincidence that my daughter Clementine was seven while I was writing this book. There's a little bit of her character. She is also really able to kind of peel those layers off. Elsie, as she's known, who's the same character as Mabel. And I think that, that the other part that I find really special is the way that children and elderly people are able to, to connect and they can kind of. Children can break down, you know, facades in a way that no one else can. And, and in that way those two characters and of course Daphne, they really just sort of. They were there telling the story for me and I just kind of had to get out of the way and write it down. That's what it felt like.

[Zibby Owens]

And was it Persephone or Mabel at the end who said something really beautiful about friendship, about has nothing to do with age. And when you have A friend and, you know, the threat of even having that taken away can just feel like the end of the world. Yes.

[Sally Hepworth]

Yeah. And children in the same way, because when you're a child and when you're an elderly person, your lives are smaller and they're more reliant on the, the goodness of the people around you. And as hard as it is to be, you know, in those middle years and, you know, I mean, you know, like you, you know, we're in those sandwiches, children and aging parents and, and it feels like, you know, and single parenting and you feel like your world is, is going to, you know, just blow up. There is also some security in the people that we have around us and some community in it. But when you're a child and you're an elderly person, you really are at the mercy of the people who show up for you. And so when you put them together and there is, I'm not sure if this exists in the States, but there is this beautiful TV show that's been made out of the exercise of putting nursing homes and daycare together here in Australia. And the TV show about the way that these, these people connect and the community of putting of elderly people and children together and the, the actual links to longevity, you know, people live longer, the children are meeting their milestones earlier. And in this particular time in our lives where we, you know, we're turning less towards community and more towards a kind of, you know, an individualistic society, we've got, you know, we've got screens and technology and things that are getting in the way of that, you know, face to face time. We're really not replacing it. There's so many things that are great about the tools that we have and connection in some ways, but we're just not getting the same returns on this technological society. We need each other. We need face to face, we need skin to skin. We need each other. And I think she, she says on zoom. I know, I don't ever want to say it's not because, you know, it is marvelous. It's amazing.

[Zibby Owens]

No, I know. I completely agree. I completely agree. It's always so much better. We can fool ourselves in thinking, oh, it's just as good, but it is not just as good. Some of them stuff happens when you're just in the same room. It's just a different experience. My daughter, my daughter, by the way, is part of a volunteer program with elderly people and middle schoolers, so she just started doing that, but same same concept. So I'll tell her you were shouting it out and all the benefits.

[Sally Hepworth]

Is she getting things out of it too? Is she.

[Zibby Owens]

She just started, but she said the first time was great. So we'll see what happens. And I'm curious, you totally don't have to answer this if you don't want, but when I went through my divorce, like, I wasn't even on social media at that point in my life. I joined afterwards, but you were already a massive best selling author with a very visible platform. Like, how did you cope with that? Like, did you feel, did you have to like hide that for a while or like. Cause I don't know, like.

[Sally Hepworth]

Anyway, yeah, look, I'll talk about divorce forever. It's my most. I'm so fascinated by it. I'm still searching for the meaning and all of those things. And yeah, what surprised me about it is that I was so broken by it. So it was not something I wanted. It came, you know, as a, you know, as a surprise in a lot of ways. And maybe the upside of how difficult I found it is I really didn't care what anyone thought of me. I wasn't worried about people talking behind my back. I wasn't worried about controlling any kind of image socially. The only thing I cared about was that insofar as my children, so. So yes, obviously there was a period where, you know, I didn't talk about it. And you know, the good news, if anyone's listening and is going through this and so many people are, is that you do get to the other side of it and even if it might be something that you didn't want, you can say, see why it happened and you can see how you're better off for it. And I have definitely reached that point, even if things are still chaotic. But the upside of it is that it allowed people to connect with me without having to go and tell people individually. And that was a difference that I found from other people. And even since then, I'll be sitting beside a mum watching netball, you know, our daughters are playing netball. And then she. It'll just somehow come up that she's going through a divorce. And I think, oh, you know, you're just going around your life, aren't you? In the middle of this trauma, in this, middle of this chaotic, horrible experience, doing the grocery shopping, taking your kids to birthday parties and you're carrying this. And I think that people kind of knew what, once I had put it out there, they knew and they were able to connect with me if they wanted to. And it was so many, just an arm on my shoulder saying like you did. I've been through that, too. Can I pick up the kids? That part of it was wonderful. And since then, I've kind of been able to go back and go, oh, you know, that was. That was wild. I didn't really want to go through something like that publicly. But, yeah, in many ways it was a gift. And I think the wisdom of it is that no one's really talking about your. They're only talking because they care and because they love you or because they, you know, they felt some sort of investment. It's not. It's not anything. I didn't feel the shame, you know, and I know that a lot of women feel shame, but I never felt like I had done something wrong. I just felt very, very sad. It allowed people to support me. That was the. The upside of it.

[Zibby Owens]

Wow. Well, thank you for sharing. And I'm sorry all of it unfolded the way it did, although we got this book out of it, so, you know, there's that. So thanks.

[Sally Hepworth]

I'm in a really. I'm in a really good place now. I. I am in a new relationship. And it's funny because people see that as the, you know, once you're in another relationship, they'll say, oh, good, and they kind of think, well, that's over now. You know, away you go. But I actually had. I had healed myself and repaired that before I got into a relationship. And I was happy as myself with my girlfriends, with my career, with my children. Life was. Was good. And it has forever reshaped how I look at a romantic relationship as a piece of the story, but not the whole story. And I wouldn't do that again.

[Zibby Owens]

Wow. Well, Sally, thank you so much. Thank you for this fabulous, immersive read with lots of twists and all that. So thank you for that and for the.

For the chat.

So thank you.

[Sally Hepworth]

It's my pleasure and I look forward to chatting again. Yes.

[Zibby Owens]

You just keep writing and we can keep talking. Okay, Bye. Bye.

[Sally Hepworth]

Bye.

[Zibby Owens]

Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have Time to read Books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram Iby Owens and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.

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