Carson Meyer (3:47)

Thank you, Zabee. Thanks for having me. Of course.

Zibby Owens (3:49)

It was so nice doing the event together at the Core Club. I loved listening to you in conversation with other fabulous moms for our Mother's Day thing and I was like, you have to come on my podcast.

Carson Meyer (4:00)

So here we are. It was so fun.

Zibby Owens (4:03)

Okay, your title is pretty self explanatory, but why don't you talk about the genesis of the book, how it came to be, and then we'll talk about your own. Your own story too, which is pretty incredible.

Carson Meyer (4:17)

Yeah, so the title is very self explanatory and there's multiple meanings. You know, of course, the growing together that takes place within the mother and child relationship, but it's really inspired by the growing together that happens within the community circles that I host that are called Growing Together. And it's a. A group of moms that has now become a community of hundreds of moms who are continuing to grow through every stage of motherhood and early motherhood together. But also I think my favorite way that the Growth the Growing Together title exists for me is in that I consider myself, you know, as a doula and author and at times teacher to be growing together with the mamas who I have the honor and privilege of serving. And I often say with every birth I attend, I know less about birth, three day of motherhood, you know less about motherhood. And so the book is very much about. Yeah, the growing that was. And that I continue to do thanks to the women that I work with.

Zibby Owens (5:18)

Amazing. How did you get into this line of work? I know you talk about it in the book, but tell everybody your story.

Carson Meyer (5:25)

So I mean, the Long story that is in the book is I believe it started at my own birth or my mother's birth of me. I became a doula at 22, which is generally a little earlier than I think most enter that. I think a lot of women become a duo because of their birth experience, giving birth, and that often inspires women to take this path. But I believe that our birth, how we enter, leaves an unconscious imprinting in us, and that there's a lot there. But between me being born and then me being 22, was 22 years, or, you know, give or take of the years that were. I was petrified, just completely terrified of the concept of motherhood. And like so many women in our culture, were taught how not to get pregnant, not to get pregnant before we want to. And then there's no curriculum later on that helps us unlearn those fears and kind of untangle those ideas and teach us how to approach this season with reverence and health and confidence. And so I saw the business of being born when I was in college, and that rocked my world. It was the first time I'd ever seen live depiction of birth that wasn't the Hollywood portrayal. And I learned about the healthcare system and our maternal mortality rates and how we've just been doing a disservice to women and babies in the way that we approach birth.

Zibby Owens (6:50)

Wow. So what do you think it was about your birth, your own birth? Do you think that was imprinted on you? And should we all go back and talk to our moms about our own birth story to give more color to later when we have kids?

Carson Meyer (7:09)

I think so. I think there's a lot of value. One of the first things I have, my clients do and the readers do is reflect on what we know about birth. How do we perceive it? What are the things we've been told, the stories we've been told? And in that and just in understanding what we think, we can really start to unpack, like, demystify the experience, debunk myths around the experience and see where our anxiety lies and where the collective anxiety exists. And I think that's one of the most important steps in lessening our fears around birth. And so, yeah, asking your mother, if you can, even asking your father or other people in your life, who. Aunts, uncles, grandmothers, Knowing how the stories that have been told around your birth impact what you believe about birth. And for me, I was always told that my birth was an emergency and was really urgent. And I think in knowing that, I can infer a sense of stress. That was there a real sense of stress, emergency or not, that my mom was feeling, that the room was feeling. And we know when it's well studied, it's not woo woo that babies are feeling that stress, that they are in total communication with their mother's body. We know that there's memory that exists in the womb. There's sound recognition and so much imprinting that actually happens before birth. And so even just acknowledging that, I think it actually takes a lot of pressure off women to say, you know, it makes sense that you have fear around birth, because you came into this world with a lot of fear around birth. And our grandmothers, many of whom were under twilight sleep giving birth, which doesn't remove the pain, it just wipes the conscious memory. But if we recognize that memories are cellular and epigenetics is based off of those experiences, that we're holding that in our lineage. And so I do think it's helpful when we're looking at why we feel the way we do about certain things, to know where it's conception, no pun intended. And also another thing that was incredibly healing for me in looking at my mom's birth is I have a big loving Jewish family, which is that emphasis of we're all here, we're all in it together. And I had older sisters who I'm so close with and love so much. And we have different mothers. And so they were at the birth, they had friends from school at the birth. My grandmother came in from the birth, my mom had friends and it was a party. And some women love that. But what I've also learned in this process is that a lot of women crave privacy and intimacy. I mean, birth is so messy and raw. And I often say, like, do you feel comfortable, you know, pooping in front of your in laws, like all the things that can happen in labor. And I do think that a big part of my mom's birth was me was not having that space. And for me to be able to recognize that and kind of reclaim that later is something I write about with boundaries that can show up at any point in parenthood.

Zibby Owens (10:25)

And just to back up for a minute, I'm sure there are moms out there who are like, do I get a doula or not? What exactly does a doula do? What is the difference between a doula and a midwife? Can you just do a quick rundown for that?

Carson Meyer (10:40)

The doulas and midwives are different in that a doula's role is not clinical. So we don't run labs, we don't listen to the baby. We're not overseeing, aside from maybe giving nutritional advice and lifestyle advice and supplemental, we're not overseeing the health of mom and baby. From a clinical standpoint, midwives catch babies. They would do everything that an OB would do in a low risk pregnancy. So of course they're not surgeons, they don't perform surgery. But in a home or hospital setting they take the same role an OB would. And in many other countries, women don't even see an OB unless they're high risk. They would just see a midwife. A doula exists in support of mothers regardless of where and how they're birthing. So if my client has a midwife at home, medulla still is valuable support. Or if they're having a planned cesarean with an ob, still valuable support. And we're there to provide that emotional support, the education throughout pregnancy, advocacy in the birth setting and hands on support like comfort measures in labor. And doulas have clients who have used epidurals and not. But there's still so much support to be had. Pregnancy, birth and postpartum, regardless of how you birth. So I think that everybody can benefit from a doula.

Zibby Owens (11:57)

I mean I would like a doula now. And my twins are turning 18. Can you be my doula now? Can you have a postpartum? Oh my gosh. Did you personally always know you wanted to be in a giving field of some kind?

Carson Meyer (12:12)

You know, I didn't. So I set out acting. That was what I was doing in college. And I have a skincare line called See in the Moon, which is a really happy, wonderful.

Zibby Owens (12:21)

Oh, thank you for the gift by the way. You sent me such nice stuff. Thank you, thank you.

Carson Meyer (12:25)

That product was, I think indicative and reflective of my desire to nurture and make people feel good. And I've always been really interested in health. And when I was at nyu, I was studying the mind body connection through a creative expression. And that's where I brought in my love for acting. And I have my knitting needles here because I realized my own mental health and cathartic energy was released and I worked through in creativity and so that was really interesting, interested in that. Then when I learned about birth work, it became clear that that was always my calling, but I didn't know what it was.

Zibby Owens (12:58)

As a doula. How do you personally stay calm in the face of ratcheted up emotions, pain of someone else? How does that, how do you not catch that? How can you be, how do you stay calm?

Carson Meyer (13:13)

It's such a good question. And I think I mentor and trained doulas now. And it's something we talk about a lot. You know, we're humans, too. And so I don't think it's. I don't think that every doula needs to approach this work thinking that they won't ever have their own fears or worries and needs to address. But knowing how in tune pregnant women are in labor and how much they are turning to those around them in the space to look for safety, to look for that support and stability, it is so important for doulas to find something, be it a practice, and constantly be working on grounding themselves. And so that there's been times in my life where I've really struggled with anxiety. And I think that all of those seasons have ultimately been amazing teachers in helping me support other women and do my work.

Zibby Owens (14:10)

What have you learned from your circles of postpartum moms, like, the circles that you have created? What do you learn from them?

Carson Meyer (14:18)

Well, I learned things. I learned things every day from them. I think, hopefully, takeaways from my book that there's no one way to parent, to birth, to live, and just having the wide range of experiences and perspectives and being able to share that in the space of love and compassion and, you know, helps myself and hopefully all the other moms to realize just how unique we all are. And that there's. There is no one right way. And that's what growing together is really about. And so those are some of the things I learned. And then, you know, I've had, because I was a doula so long before becoming a mother. I mean, some of my clients have become dear friends, and I'm literally calling them for advice. I'll never forget one of my first doula clients who's now about to have her fourth son. And I, yeah, she's since become a dear, dear friend. I remember breastfeeding for the first time, and the first 24 hours, I was like, I got this, and then my milk came in and, you know, 24 hours of that sensation. And also my nipples hurt and I was engorged. And I was like, this is so painful. Like, what is going on? There must be something wrong. Remember, I've been a doula for many years and calling her and her being like, yeah, like, that's normal. It really sucks for a little bit and it'll get better. And, you know, I wrote this in the book, but she's like, try singing a song and, like, know that, you know, or the ABCs, like, know that when you get To a certain point, that pain will subside, but it's also gonna, like, help you take that deep breath, take your mind off of the pain. Don't let your baby see, like too often because they're gonna pick up on that and just having that cheerleader and that encouragement and it was so sweet that it came from, yeah, a mom and a friend who I'd been there for on the other side.

Zibby Owens (16:02)

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Zibby Owens (18:56)

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Zibby Owens (19:45)

You know, I haven't even said this out loud before, but I've started doing the same thing in my head, sort of counting. Not with the letters, but when I'm worried something's going to take too long or it's like frustrating me. I'm like, how long is this actually going to take? And then I, I'm like, I'm just going to count and test myself. And sometimes it literally takes three seconds. Things that I feel like are forever, you know, like if something's bothering me or even if, like someone's running late and I'm annoyed about it. Like if I just count, maybe it'll only be one minute and it's not worth it.

Carson Meyer (20:15)

I love that. And I'm that way too. I'm so punctual. Time. And like, I, I really have, I can totally relate to that relationship with time. And that can be a big challenge to overcome as a mom because as you know, I mean, you. Like, it's first of all, when it comes to birth and the milestones, all this, like time doesn't exist in the same way. It does when we're, you know, in other capacities and working in different areas of our life. And I'm learning that too, practicing that too.

Zibby Owens (20:43)

Yeah, I remember like I had to pump during a wedding or something and I had to do it for 10 minutes and I was like, wait a minute. You can't rush 10 minutes. Like, no matter how anxious I am, 10 minutes is just going to be 10 minutes.

Carson Meyer (20:54)

Exactly. And our experience of the 10 minutes is all we can really do. Exactly, exactly. I have a two and a half year old, so I'm also working on the, like, not rushing her, taking three hours to get from the door to the car and, like, balance between, like, we have to get somewhere and oh my gosh, a grain of sand was discovered. But there's so much magic and like, so much we can learn from them in their ability to like, just drop into what we think is completely meaningless or a waste of time. And so I'm trying to embrace that, that stillness.

Zibby Owens (21:24)

So how did you approach the book? You could have done it a bazillion ways. Why? The Week by week companion. Tell me about the structure of that.

Carson Meyer (21:32)

Yeah, so I, I really felt like in a book, post Instagram world.

Zibby Owens (21:36)

Wait, is this the post Instagram world?

Carson Meyer (21:39)

What books come out since Instagram has been. Right. Is that the right way of saying it?

Zibby Owens (21:45)

Oh, I thought you meant like after Instagram goes away or something.

Carson Meyer (21:48)

No, no, no, I mean like post.

Zibby Owens (21:50)

Oh, post invention of Instagram. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. In an Instagram world. Yes. Okay.

Carson Meyer (21:54)

I guess it's just whatever or. And after that I can remember and you know, there's a less attention span, I think, for, For a lot of. Of us. And I. There's some women like myself, who are complete birth book nerds and they want to read every book about birth that's ever been written. That's my bookshelf. And then clients who have many of who are just like, just tell me the one book. Like, what is the one book? This is not. I'm not studying for an sat and I respect that. I admire that. They're like, just wanting to be more present but want to gather some information. And so I wanted to create something that had a little bit of everything so they weren't having to read a book on breastfeeding, a book on postpartum, a book on sleep, a book on pregnancy, but something that they could really get a taste for, for all of it. And then whatever they wanted to continue on they could go deeper in. But I like the week by week structure because it gives this the bite size information and it gives you time to reflect on it. And then another part of the book that I really love, I think sets it apart is there's weekly activities and journal prompts so that you can take the information that you're reading and then hopefully integrate it into your life and reflect on it before moving to the next week. But some people will and of course have discovered the book later in pregnancy. And it's also designed to be read through for the voracious readers like yourself.

Zibby Owens (23:16)

What do you do to allay the fears of the pre birth moms? I don't know how to say that correctly either, but you're getting closer to giving birth. You're freaking out. How do you reassure pregnant moms that it's not going to be so bad when you don't actually even know that?

Carson Meyer (23:36)

Yeah, I think that there's, this is where the activities really come in as so valuable. As we talked about kind of going all the way back to where your fears, what are your fears? Where are they coming from? Identifying them and talking about them. You know, we don't have to suppress or pretend that we don't have fears. And I also don't think it's reasonable to say you're going to walk into this process having zero. Any new experience is going to come with jitters. And that's normal. It's so normal to fear the unknown. And I do think that this experience comes with so much fear because we're so keenly aware of the magnitude of creating life. It's so big. And so I do think that like the, the demystifying of it, the knowledge is power, understanding it, creating community around it is huge. And recognizing again, where is your fears? Where are your fears? Where are your partners? Where everyone else's and where do those exist? And then what's the difference between fear and discernment? Because fear arises to be of service to us and we don't want to just block it out. We want to be able to listen to that intuition and to those fears and find support for them. And then sometimes the fear doesn't serve us. And to know and be able to have tools for letting those fall by the wayside.

Zibby Owens (24:55)

And what advice can you give to grandparents? Because sometimes grandparents are listening to the show and they've already had their babies long ago. But maybe they want to coach their daughter in law or their daughter or friends or something. What can you do as a bystander to really help others?

Carson Meyer (25:13)

Yeah, I love that question. You know, I think for grandparents and working with so many grandparents too, knowing like it can be a challenge to know you know, where and how to bring your wisdom into it without overstepping or feeling like, you know, one way. And so I really, I invite grandparents, I mean the book is A great resource for them, too, to be able to again do this exact same activity. Check. Where are your anxieties? Where might you be feeling fear about how your child is choosing to do something or birth a certain way? And, you know, respecting the boundaries and the choice and how they might differ from yours is so valuable because I think it's going to allow you to show up in a way of truly being in service without bringing in your own fears, which is one of the greatest gifts you can give somebody else. And then on, like, a more practical note, you know, I talk a lot about the book, how we don't have a lot of tools in our culture or we just don't have, like a strong culture of postpartum support. And we look back in our history, it's not there like it is in a lot of the Eastern cultures. And, you know, to read those books to understand, you know, the foods and some of the traditions that are really valuable for healing the mother. And I talk a lot about mothering the mother and that one of the best ways anyone can show up for a new mom postpartum is not necessarily coming over to hold the baby. Everyone wants to hold the baby and be with baby, and it's so sweet. And as I always say to everyone, like, as babies get older, parents are going to want you to hold their baby more and more. But in those early days and weeks, and especially while breastfeeding is becoming established and it's all so new, the more you can be helping incapacities outside of just baby, you know, around the home, cooking, making sure the dog is walked. This goes such a long way. And it also really honors that mother baby dyad that's so important.

Zibby Owens (27:08)

That's so true. I remember one time my mom just came over and was like, straightening the room and doing the dishes, and I was like, thank you. That's so nice.

Carson Meyer (27:17)

Understood. And I this is completely taboo in our culture, too. And I talk about it in the book and not right for everyone, but I like to share it because I think people are like, wow, there's different ways for a loving family to do this. We didn't invite our family or anybody into our home for three weeks. And this was easier for us because we live across the country from our family now. I think, you know, had we lived closer, it probably would have been sooner. But because we knew that opening our doors to family would mean having guests. Right. We live so far away, it wouldn't just be a short visit. We really decided to like to have this time of Integration, that was just us where we could rest and get into the flow and get to know ourselves as new parents before we brought in other energy. And fortunately I had a family who really respected those boundaries and celebrated, you know, that what we wanted. And I know it can be a hard conversation. And so I talk about that in the book. It's not going to be right for everyone, but if you know that your parents are not going to be the ones who are cooking and cleaning, but more of just like the lovey dovey grandparents who we need and love, it's okay to, you know, ask for the help you need if it's not going to come automatically. And it's okay to have boundaries and, and space and to welcome them in when you feel ready.

Zibby Owens (28:33)

I love them. And what are you thinking in terms of your career going forward? You have the book, you're this renowned doula, like, where is it going? What are you excited for? What challenges are you up for that you haven't faced yet?

Carson Meyer (28:49)

I'm continuing my circles, which I love so much, and continuing to grow the Growing together community and maybe some other books in the future as well. But I feel really fortunate that I can do what I love while being in my early motherhood season. And I am also excited to return back to the birth space once my baby and future babies are a little bit more independent because it's, it's one of those jobs that, you know, sometimes you're on a 40 hour shift, but then you don't know it.

Zibby Owens (29:19)

How do you even stay awake? Is it all the adrenaline?

Carson Meyer (29:22)

Coffee and adrenaline. And that's also why I chose to step back from attending births in the season of. You don't get a ton of sleep as a new mom to begin with. Yeah, it'll be harder for me to stay up for those 40 hour stretches.

Zibby Owens (29:38)

And has anything happened so far in the book process? I mean, you are birthing a book too. Anything different that's happened in this process than you expected or something really wonderful.

Carson Meyer (29:51)

It'S been really special to share it. And also, I mean, as you know too, there's something so scary sometimes about like vulnerable. And when you're writing it, it's just you and the computer. And so I felt like I. It's such an honest and vulnerable portrayal of motherhood that I don't think I could have written at any other time. I mean, I wrote it in my postpartum season, but it's been so. I've been so pleasantly surprised by just the support of other authors and friends and strangers. That's been so beautiful. I think nobody understands like an author what it takes to similar to mothers like only a mother fully understand what it takes to birth a child and only an author understands really what it takes to birth a book. And so it's just been so nice to have the support of other new author friends and women like you in the space.

Zibby Owens (30:39)

Thank you. Well, Kirsten, thank you, thank you for coming on. Thank you for this book and for doing our event together and everything else. You are such a special soul and such an old soul and so wise and it's great. I just feel like calmer just being in your aura.

Carson Meyer (30:55)

Siby, it's so nice to meet you. I so admire your work and message and everything. So I was excited. Thank you.

Zibby Owens (31:00)

Thank you. Okay, thanks Carson. Bye. Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram, ippyowens and Spread the Word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books. Now you can fly anywhere in the world and pay discount prices on your airline tickets. Book a flight today to London, Paris, Madrid or anywhere else you want to go and pay a lot less guaranteed. Call the international travel department right now at Low Cost Airlines, 8002-1551-4180-0215-5141.

Carson Meyer (31:53)

That's 800-215-5141.

Joanna Coles (31:59)

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