Totally Booked with Zibby: Corinne Low, PhD – “Having It All: What Data Tells Us About Women’s Lives and Getting the Most Out of Yours”

Episode Date: October 28, 2025
Host: Zibby Owens
Guest: Dr. Corinne Low
Episode Theme: How to “have it all” as a woman—using economics, data, and personal reflective strategies—while recognizing the modern pressures and structural realities facing women today.

Episode Overview

In this thought-provoking episode, Zibby Owens sits down with economist and author Corinne Low, PhD, to discuss Corinne’s new book Having It All: What Data Tells Us About Women's Lives and Getting the Most Out of Yours. Corinne draws on her personal life, her research as an economist, and deep dives into time-use data to challenge prevailing "lean in" narratives. Instead, she suggests novel strategies for women to maximize utility, find true fulfillment, and rethink what it really means to “have it all” in today’s world.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rethinking “Having It All”: Economics Meets Everyday Life

• Maximizing Utility, Not Just Achievement

  • Corinne argues for adopting the economist’s mindset of "maximizing utility"—long-term contentment, meaning, fulfillment—over simply climbing the career ladder.
  • Quote:

    “Utility is the... joy, contentment, meaning, and fulfillment over your lifetime… what you would look back on when you’re 85 years old, sitting in a rocking chair and say, you know, that was a life well lived.” (Corinne Low, 02:20)

• Pushback Against ‘Lean In’ Culture

  • She gently critiques the standard “lean in, girl boss” message, suggesting it doesn’t address the real, persistent barriers women face.

[02:20-03:45]

2. Personal Story: From Overwhelm to Radical Change

• Snapshot of “Having It None”

  • Corinne shares a vivid memory: pumping in an Amtrak bathroom, missing her son’s bedtime due to delays—a metaphor for the impossible squeeze many women feel.
  • Despite being a breadwinner, she found herself doing most domestic work, reflecting widespread data that structural imbalances persist at home even for high-achieving women.
  • Quote:

    “I was the breadwinner, I felt like I was doing the majority of the parenting, the majority of the home production. And I was like, is this just what life is like now? Is it just always going to feel this hard?” (Corinne Low, 04:05)

• Time Use Data: A Wider Problem

  • She notes, “Women who are the primary breadwinners still do twice as much cooking and cleaning as their lower earning male partners.”
  • The explosion of intensive parenting since the 1990s means the daily demands don’t fit in 24 hours.

• Her Radical Solutions

  • Corinne describes her choices: divorce, a shorter commute, hiring an au pair instead of relying on a spouse. But, she stresses, her book isn’t a universal prescription—it’s about “finding your level up.”

[03:45-06:25]

3. Leaving Heteronormativity and Gender Roles

• Choosing a New Path

  • Corinne is now married to a woman and reflects on swapping gendered expectations for a more compatible partnership.
  • She notes that just having a “stay-at-home wife” isn’t an accessible solution, humorously acknowledging:

    “The reason you have it all is because you have a stay at home wife. Like, that’s not implementable advice. So it’s good that things are getting a little harder for you.” (Corinne Low, paraphrasing a friend, 06:30)

• Becoming the “Co-CEO” of Family Life

  • The key for any partnership: approach home life as a joint executive venture. When dating, we should be “interviewing for the co-CEO of the household,” not just a romantic partner.
  • Quote:

    “It matters less whether we like the same movies and it matters more like how many recipes he knows that a five year old and a three year old are going to eat.” (Corinne Low, 08:50)

• On Men’s Evolving Roles

  • Corinne is optimistic about men’s ability to change. She believes true fulfillment comes when both partners share home responsibilities and emotional load.

[06:25-09:20]

4. Evolution, Behavioral Economics, and Partner Choice

• Mismatch of Instinct and Modern Life

  • Our evolutionary wiring drives women to nurture and seek approval, but societal survival no longer depends on perfect PTO involvement or pouring out endlessly for the community.
  • We’re prone to outdated survival behaviors that sap our reserves in today’s world.

• Changing Criteria for Partners

  • Zibby humorously suggests “good driver” should top the list; Corinne notes women’s selection criteria could use updating based on what supports lifetime well-being.

[09:20-12:08]

5. Turning a Bad “Co-CEO” Into a Good One

• Data-Driven Awareness

  • Corinne’s practical advice: track time spent on household tasks to make invisible labor visible.
  • Most men think they’re doing their half, but aren’t aware of the hidden work.
  • Quote:

    “They’re doing half of the things that they know about and they just don’t… recognize… that bottom of the iceberg that’s under the surface.” (Corinne Low, 14:23)

• Concrete Steps

  • Keep a shared spreadsheet/time log. Let the charts do the talking—numbers prompt teamwork instead of defensiveness.

[13:57-16:28]

6. Negotiating at Home: The “BATNA” Concept

• Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement (BATNA)
  • Corinne adapts a key negotiation principle: always develop your “backup plan”—so you can negotiate for true partnership rather than crumbs, at work or at home.
  • For some, that means mapping out scenarios like single parenting or divorce—not as a goal, but for empowerment.
  • Notable Finding:

    “Women’s time cooking and cleaning goes down after divorce because... he was actually creating more work than he was doing in a marriage that’s not working.” (Corinne Low, 16:49, paraphrased 18:47)
    “And they [divorced women] sleep more. Yeah. Because their time is less squeezed.” (18:47)

[16:28-19:08]

7. Reconciling Rational Analysis with Emotional Decision-Making

• Head vs. Heart? Both Matter

  • Zibby contrasts Corinne’s data-first mindset with “follow your heart” philosophies. Corinne insists her approach ultimately serves happiness, not just efficiency:
  • Quote:

    “The first step… is really understanding what you value… The book is really about trying to be happy and fulfilled and find joy.” (Corinne Low, 20:09)

• **Practice: Tune into how each experience feels. If something depletes you, don’t force it. Strategic thinking isn’t divorced from deep feeling—it helps you zoom out and honor your future self.

[19:08-22:35]

8. Personal Fulfillment: Joy Through Honest Choices

• Permission to Center Parenting
  • Corinne celebrates making parenthood central, countering messages that women must choose career over kids.
  • Quote:

    “I gave myself permission to love being a parent, to love spending time with my kids, for that to be central in my life… I can actually make those things compatible and I can find joy from all of those different domains.” (Corinne Low, 22:38–23:37)

[22:35-23:37]

9. Blended Families: Growth Through Change

• Stepfamilies After Divorce
  • Zibby asks about Corinne’s relationship with her stepson post-divorce. Corinne shares this was her hardest struggle and source of guilt, but ultimately, prioritizing her own well-being strengthened family bonds for everyone.
  • Quote:

    “Sometimes letting yourself come last and letting yourself become a depleted shell and husk of yourself, you’re really not doing anybody any favors... If something’s not working for you, it’s not working for the family.” (Corinne Low, 25:13)

[23:37-25:13]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Life Choices:

  “Instead of leaning in, we need to level up—because leaning in isn’t working.” (Corinne Low, 06:20)

• On Dating and Division of Labor:

  “I think we interview for the wrong position when we’re dating... what we need is that co-CEO of the household.” (Corinne Low, 08:35)

• On Behavioral Economics and Women’s Brains:

  “That desire to just endlessly… pour ourselves into other people... it’s a misfit for our modern society, where there’s so many other competing priorities.” (Corinne Low, 11:23)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Topic | Timestamp | |---------|---------------------------------------------|-----------| | 1 | Reframing “Having It All” w/ economist lens | 02:20–03:45 | | 2 | Personal crossroads and societal data | 04:05–06:25 | | 3 | Rejecting gender roles in partnerships | 06:25–09:20 | | 4 | Partner selection and evolutionary mismatch | 09:20–12:08 | | 5 | Turning your partner into a co-CEO | 13:57–16:28 | | 6 | Negotiation strategy (“BATNA”) at home | 16:28–19:08 | | 7 | Head vs. heart in life decisions | 19:08–22:35 | | 8 | Permission for fulfilled parenting | 22:35–23:37 | | 9 | Healthy blended families after divorce | 23:37–25:13 |

Tone and Style

The episode is an engaging, candid blend of personal storytelling, humor, and evidence-based advice. Corinne Low brings the analytical rigor of economics, but always circles back to living authentically and joyfully—deflating stereotypes and offering practical, actionable wisdom without judgment.

Takeaway

Corinne Low’s message is clear: Women don’t need to “lean in” to exhaustion—they can “level up” by understanding their deepest values, using data to inform home and work balance, rethinking partner choices, and giving themselves permission to pursue the version of happiness that will make them proud at 85. A must-listen episode for anyone reconsidering what “having it all” can actually mean.