Totally Booked with Zibby – Episode Featuring Dara Horn

Release Date: April 11, 2025

Introduction to Dara Horn and Her Work

In this engaging episode of Totally Booked with Zibby, host Zibby Owens welcomes acclaimed author Dara Horn to discuss her latest works, "One Little Goat: A Passover Catastrophe" and "People Love Dead Jews: Reports from a Haunted Present." Dara Horn, a renowned novelist with six award-winning books, brings her deep understanding of Jewish history and culture to the conversation, offering listeners insightful perspectives on her storytelling and activism.

Exploring "One Little Goat"

"One Little Goat" is a graphic novel aimed at young readers but equally resonant with adults. The story revolves around a family's Passover Seder that becomes interminable when they can't locate the afikoman, a piece of matzah hidden during the meal. This predicament leads the protagonist to journey through layers of Jewish history, symbolized by the archaeological concept of a tell, an artificial mound composed of successive layers of civilization.

Themes of Time and Jewish Tradition

Dara elaborates on her fascination with time and memory, stating:

"This was what motivated me as a writer was this overwhelming sense of time... capturing time and growing up in the Jewish community."
(04:44)

She draws parallels between the tell and Jewish life, emphasizing how Jewish tradition inherently involves a deep historical consciousness that permeates daily existence. This layering of history is mirrored in the narrative structure of "One Little Goat," where each layer represents different eras of Jewish experience.

Metaphor of the Tell

The tell serves as a powerful metaphor for the accumulation of Jewish history and tradition. Dara explains:

"A tell is an archaeological mound... the most recent layers are at the top, and then the oldest are at the very bottom. To me, this was sort of this metaphor for Jewish life."
(06:07)

This symbolism allows readers to traverse through time, understanding how past generations shape contemporary Jewish identity and experiences.

Personal Experiences Influencing the Book

Dara shares her childhood anxiety about time slipping away, which deeply influenced her writing:

"As a child, I constantly felt like this was slipping through my fingers... capturing the disappearing days inside this tradition."
(04:16)

This personal connection to the concept of time enriches the narrative, making it both relatable and profound.

Delving into "People Love Dead Jews"

"People Love Dead Jews" addresses the troubling reality that Jewish individuals are often only celebrated or remembered when they are no longer alive or politically active. Dara defines the term as follows:

"Most non-Jewish societies only find Jews acceptable when Jews are powerless, whether that means politically impotent or dead."
(26:42)

Examples of Anti-Semitic Incidents

Dara recounts specific incidents that highlight this phenomenon, such as:

• Discrimination at the Anne Frank Museum: A young Jewish man was initially prohibited from wearing his yarmulke, forcing him to hide it under a baseball hat. After a prolonged deliberation, the museum relented.
  (26:42 – 26:00)

• Exclusion in Educational Materials: The omission of Hebrew in audio guide displays at the same museum underscores the subtle yet pervasive nature of anti-Semitism.

These examples illustrate how Jewish presence and identity are often marginalized or contingent on invisibility.

Emergence as a Voice Against Anti-Semitism

Publishing "People Love Dead Jews" propelled Dara into a national voice combating anti-Semitism. She shares her journey:

"This book has eaten my life since it came out... non-Jewish readers who were saying, 'Wow, I had no idea. How can I help?'"
(26:05)

Her active participation in advisory groups and congressional investigations further solidifies her role as an advocate for Jewish education and rights.

Founding of Mosaic Persuasion

In response to the growing need for effective anti-Semitism education, Dara founded Mosaic Persuasion, a nonprofit aimed at:

• Educating the American Public: Providing comprehensive education about Jewish identity and history.
• Developing Educational Resources: Creating workshops and materials for K-12 education, museums, interfaith groups, and social media channels.

Dara emphasizes the necessity of understanding Jewish civilization to effectively combat anti-Semitism:

"There are all these places where it's like, you have required to learn about the Holocaust in school. You're not required to learn who Jews are."
(26:30)

Broader Reflections on Jewish Tradition and Counterculture

Dara delves into the concept of Jewish tradition as inherently countercultural, rooted in values of integrity and resistance against tyranny. She connects the Passover story to modern struggles for freedom and integrity:

"This is like the ultimate expression of integrity and freedom. To me, that's what the Passover story really is about."
(18:05)

Her analysis highlights how Jewish traditions offer valuable lessons for living in a pluralistic and often polarized society.

Collaboration with Theo Ellsworth

The creative partnership between Dara Horn and illustrator Theo Ellsworth brings "One Little Goat" to life. Dara recounts how her children inspired the collaboration:

"I was enchanted by his artwork... working with him was just amazing. He did a fantastic job."
(22:35)

Theo's unique artistic style, characterized by literal interpretations of abstract ideas, perfectly complements Dara's storytelling, adding depth and humor to the narrative.

Conclusion and Future Initiatives

As the episode concludes, Dara Horn expresses her commitment to expanding Mosaic Persuasion and continuing her advocacy work:

"We're building this out... we have workshops for teachers and stuff."
(32:31)

Zibby Owens praises Dara's contributions and looks forward to further discussions:

"Clearly, what we're doing now is not working. So by shifting the framework, hopefully we have more success."
(32:43)

Dara's dedication to educating the public and fostering understanding positions her as a pivotal figure in contemporary discussions on Jewish identity and combating anti-Semitism.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Dara Horn on Time and Memory:

  "This was what motivated me as a writer was this overwhelming sense of time... capturing time and growing up in the Jewish community."
  (04:44)

• Metaphor of the Tell:

  "A tell is an archaeological mound... the most recent layers are at the top, and then the oldest are at the very bottom. To me, this was sort of this metaphor for Jewish life."
  (06:07)

• Defining "People Love Dead Jews":

  "Most non-Jewish societies only find Jews acceptable when Jews are powerless, whether that means politically impotent or dead."
  (26:42)

• On Jewish Tradition as Countercultural:

  "This is like the ultimate expression of integrity and freedom. To me, that's what the Passover story really is about."
  (18:05)

• Dara's Advocacy Journey:

  "This book has eaten my life since it came out... non-Jewish readers who were saying, 'Wow, I had no idea. How can I help?'"
  (26:05)

Key Takeaways

• "One Little Goat" uses the metaphor of a tell to explore Jewish history and tradition through a captivating graphic novel aimed at young readers.

• "People Love Dead Jews" examines the troubling trend of celebrating Jews only when they are no longer active or powerful, highlighting pervasive anti-Semitic attitudes.

• Dara Horn's activism through Mosaic Persuasion seeks to educate the broader public about Jewish identity, aiming to combat anti-Semitism effectively.

• Jewish traditions offer valuable lessons in integrity and resistance, serving as a countercultural force in contemporary society.

• Collaboration with illustrator Theo Ellsworth has enriched Dara's storytelling, adding visual depth and humor to her narratives.

For those interested in further exploring Dara Horn's work and her initiatives to combat anti-Semitism, you can visit her website or follow her on Instagram.