E.A. Hanks, THE 10: A Memoir of Family and the Open Road

Summary

Episode Summary: E.A. Hanks, THE 10: A Memoir of Family and the Open Road

Released on April 17, 2025, "Totally Booked with Zibby" features an insightful conversation between host Zibby Owens and author E.A. Hanks. In this episode, Hanks delves deep into her memoir, THE 10: A Memoir of Family and the Open Road, exploring themes of family dynamics, personal growth, and the quintessential American road trip.

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Introduction to E.A. Hanks and Her Memoir

Zibby Owens welcomes E.A. Hanks, a Los Angeles-based author and former Vanity Fair staffer, to discuss her debut memoir. Hanks shares her gratitude for the opportunity to speak about her book, highlighting that it marks her first interview experience.

E.A. Hanks [03:25]: "Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it. This is my very first interview."

Decoding the Title: THE 10

The conversation begins with an exploration of the memoir’s title. Hanks explains that "Mumot Ajiko," the name referenced in her book’s opening, translates to "Breath of the Ocean" in the Shoshone language. This poetic name sets the tone for the memoir's introspective journey.

E.A. Hanks [05:18]: "The indigenous tribes of Southern California include the Tongva and the Chumash and the language of the Tongva was Shoshone. And it turns out that Mumont e Hiko is indeed Shoshone for Breath of the Ocean."

The American Road Trip as a Metaphor for Personal Growth

Hanks discusses the significance of the road trip in her memoir, portraying it as a metaphor for self-discovery and emotional healing. She reflects on the vastness of America and how the journey across the country mirrors her internal quest to understand her past and her relationship with her mother.

E.A. Hanks [06:55]: "The story of a road trip is an American story, right? We are blessed with space... if you've ever listened to a Bruce Springsteen song, you know that if you've got big feelings, you can get in your car and literally navigate them."

Navigating Family Dynamics and Grief

A significant portion of the memoir centers on Hanks’ relationship with her mother. She candidly discusses her mother's illness, the challenges of changing custody, and the complexities of understanding her mother's behavior. This segment highlights the emotional toll of reconciling with a loved one's struggles.

E.A. Hanks [19:19]: "Anybody who has buried a loved one knows what that. How the conversation becomes one sided."

Metaphorical Significance of the Dog

One of the poignant moments in the memoir involves the story of a dog, which serves as a powerful metaphor for Hanks' struggles with her past and her coping mechanisms. She explains how relinquishing the dog parallels her journey in letting go of unresolved issues related to her mother.

E.A. Hanks [10:53]: "The dog was like, okay, you think you've done all the work. You think you've done enough therapy. Let's test this. Let's see how good you are at setting down the struggles that are not yours to fight."

The Process of Writing and Healing

Hanks elaborates on her process of writing the memoir, emphasizing the therapeutic aspects of confronting her past through her mother's journals and poetry. She shares how this endeavor allowed her to rebuild her relationship with her mother posthumously and gain validation from those close to her.

E.A. Hanks [23:43]: "The first thing [my dad] said to me was, that is a description of the woman that I knew. Knowing that other people who were most closely entwined with her feel that it was accurate and loving... that is the win."

Ongoing Struggles and Coping Mechanisms

Discussing her current challenges, Hanks introduces the concept of "wobbly dominoes"—small signs that indicate she's struggling. She shares practical strategies she employs to manage her mental health, such as establishing strict routines and seeking support when needed.

E.A. Hanks [24:55]: "When I'm struggling, like I'm struggling a bit right now, things have to get so small. First I make my bed before I do anything else. Then I brush my teeth before I leave the bedroom."

Reflections on Success and Continuing the Journey

Hanks reflects on her sense of accomplishment in connecting with her mother through her memoir. She acknowledges that while complete resolution may be unattainable, the memoir serves as a meaningful bridge between her and her mother's legacy.

E.A. Hanks [23:55]: "There’s peace with the lack of resolution. But do I feel like I've gotten pretty dang close? Yeah, I think I have."

Conclusion: Embracing Time and Continuing Growth

As the conversation wraps up, Hanks emphasizes the importance of time in the healing process. She expresses gratitude for the opportunity to share her story and hopes that her memoir inspires others to embark on their own journeys of self-discovery.

E.A. Hanks [31:08]: "I think increasingly our most precious resource is time. So I appreciate yours very much."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• E.A. Hanks [06:55]: "The story of a road trip is an American story, right? We are blessed with space... if you've ever listened to a Bruce Springsteen song, you know that if you've got big feelings, you can get in your car and literally navigate them."

• E.A. Hanks [10:53]: "The dog was like, okay, you think you've done all the work. You think you've done enough therapy. Let's test this. Let's see how good you are at setting down the struggles that are not yours to fight."

• E.A. Hanks [23:43]: "Knowing that other people who were most closely entwined with her feel that it was accurate and loving... that is the win."

• E.A. Hanks [24:55]: "When I'm struggling, like I'm struggling a bit right now, things have to get so small. First I make my bed before I do anything else. Then I brush my teeth before I leave the bedroom."

• E.A. Hanks [31:08]: "I think increasingly our most precious resource is time. So I appreciate yours very much."

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This episode offers a profound exploration of E.A. Hanks' journey through grief, familial relationships, and self-discovery, all woven together with the liberating metaphor of the open road. Her candid reflections provide listeners with both empathy and inspiration, encouraging them to navigate their own paths with mindfulness and resilience.

Transcript

[Zibby Owens]

Are you interested in being part of the live studio audience while I film a series for Totally Booked with Zibby Live in New York City? Sign [e-mail] I have a little Google form that you can fill out and if you get selected you can come sit in the audience, hear from authors before their books have even come out, and be a part of the show again. Go to zibbyowens.com Filmings will be on April 16th, 23rd, 30th and May 7th in New York City. Be a part of it Instacart is on a mission to have you not leave the couch this basketball season because between the pre game rituals and the post game interviews, it can be difficult to find time for everything else. So let Instacart take care of your game day snacks or weekly restocks and get delivery in as fast as 30 minutes because we hear it's bad luck to be hungry on game day. So download the Instacart app today and enjoy. $0 Delivery fees on your first 3 orders Service fees apply for 3 orders in 14 days. Excludes restaurants Race the rudders.

[E.A. Hanks]

Race the sails. Raise the sails.

[Zibby Owens]

Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching.

[E.A. Hanks]

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[Zibby Owens]

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[E.A. Hanks]

Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it. This is my very first interview.

[Zibby Owens]

Oh my gosh. Well, this will be easy because it's not formal at all. You just chit chat and you know, I just, you know, regular conversation.

[E.A. Hanks]

You can ease me in. I'm used to being on that side of the conversation. So this is a nice, I feel this is a safe space. I appreciate it.

[Zibby Owens]

Publicists usually make mine first for people because it's so gentle and I'm just here to boost and have no agenda.

[E.A. Hanks]

Other than we love, we love a soft landing.

[Zibby Owens]

Exactly. I opened the book and like immediately laughed because Mumot Ajiko. I don't even know how to pronounce it. I, you know, my bookstore is in Santa Monica. Your, your guess is as good as.

[E.A. Hanks]

Anybody who looks like us. Yeah, for sure.

[Zibby Owens]

So the book opens there, which is like a turn off when you're on ocean in Santa Monica, when you turn the sign and I always wonder like, what is that? And you go in that. And that is just the beginning. That's at the tip of the iceberg of things you might wonder. And that we learned through your story.

[E.A. Hanks]

Yeah. That was Mumo de Hiko for people who don't live in Los Angeles or in Santa Monica, as you said, is a small access road that essentially kind of feeds into the Pacific Coast Highway. Right where the Pacific coast highway veers inland and eventually becomes Interstate 10. And I just like you had truly the name of the chapter is who the hell is Mumata Hiko? Because that was the question that kind of prompted it all. And I have to say that the reveal did not disappoint. Not for me. There's a number of big questions I have in this book that do not have clean cut answers. But I'm happy to say that the book starts at least with one.

[Zibby Owens]

Yes. That was very satisfying to know. Yeah. Tonga people who live there, right?

[E.A. Hanks]

Yes. Yeah. The indigenous tribes of Southern California include the Tongva and the Chumash and the language of the Tongva was Shoshone. And it turns out that Mumont e Hiko is indeed Shoshone for Breath of the Ocean, which, you know, that's a good name for a road. I'll take it.

[Zibby Owens]

If there was going to be a road name that. That's the road, like, sloping down. So there you go.

[E.A. Hanks]

Precisely. It's better. It's certainly more poetic than the 10, which, by the way, I didn't realize I got pinged in a review for Even the T giving away that I'm from Los Angeles because it's called the 10, apparently. You know, I'm straight out of an SNL skit. You know, I took the PCH to the 10, to the 101, to the 405, and then I went back to the 10, got a book deal out of it.

[Zibby Owens]

There you go. The best thing to come out of the 10, perhaps.

[E.A. Hanks]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Zibby Owens]

Well, first of all, thank you for taking me across the country and to places I had never been and had always wondered about. Even places I probably should have been by now, like Santa Fe. Why have I not been there anyway? Just all sorts of. Of stops where you give us introductions to local characters, topography, descriptions, your own experience, some really funny things that happen to you along the way and some scary things that happen to you along the way. But at the end of it, like, you really put the book down feeling as if you've gone on this journey, which most of us are never going to do. So thank you for bringing us along and like your, you know, van that had that funny name that I can't remember.

[E.A. Hanks]

Mini the Van. Mini, yeah.

[Zibby Owens]

Yes, Mini. Mini.

[E.A. Hanks]

That brings me such joy. I mean, I think the story of a road trip is an American story, right? We are blessed with space. I remember when I moved to Scotland and I mentioned, just for an academic year and a little time before and behind, but I remember saying to someone, God, the sky seems so big here. Like, everything feels like it's on really such a huge scale. And the person just laughed in my face and was like, do you know how small this country is? Especially in comparison to yours? And I think Americans really don't understand that most countries have one, maybe two large cities. America has more large cities than we know what to do with. Right? And the trope of the American road trip is, I think that's kind of, you know, if you've ever listened to a Bruce Springsteen song, you know that if you've got big feelings, you can get in your car and literally navigate them. So I think one of the things that I hope that people do after they read the 10 is go for a drive. It doesn't have to be a seventh month journey across the continental US but good things can happen when you get in your car and let yourself think long thoughts.

[Zibby Owens]

It was interesting how you decided to do this by yourself and how immediately people were like, oh my gosh, is that safe? Are you gonna be okay? Right? You know, you're encouraging people to do it. And yet I feel like there is this fear that courses along with it. The lone, the lone woman traveler and all of that.

[E.A. Hanks]

Well, as I say in the book, there was a really fascinating sort of gender divide in the responses to when people. Cause what basically I told people was that I was moving into a van and I was gonna take my sweet time driving from California to Florida roughly on the same sort of schedule and journey as the one my mother and I took. And yeah, women, their first instinct was fear, which makes sense. And I have to say, more perplexing was men's response of jealousy, which is slightly concerning. Non binary folk have not voted as of yet, which I think, you know, speaks to their wisdom. So it was really fascinating, kind of navigating other, other people's feelings about what I was doing, whether that was navigating other people's fear or navigating people's sort of envy. And I found that they were both right. There were times where it was smart to be afraid and there was, there were times where I woke up with deep gratitude about what I was experiencing and feeling like, I wish everyone had a window of this, the opportunity, the time, the invitation to get lost.

[Zibby Owens]

It is amazing how much people show you about themselves just in how they respond to something about you. I mean, if you would like to know about anyone's marriage, tell them you're getting divorced because, oh my gosh, I got a lot of feedback.

[E.A. Hanks]

Yeah. Oh, I'm sure. I mean, I, I, there's a running joke amongst my friends, amongst whom I would say I'm one of the more therapy ized gratefully. But I always like to say, like, oh, you're, your psychology is showing. Like your, your trauma, your deals, your, your unresolved patterns are showing. And that was never more evident to me when I was walking through because, you know, there were people who love me and people who want me to do well and succeed who really cautioned against this adventure for many different reasons. And I think one of the things that, you know, you, you are rooted in your own perspective. So you have to get curious about other people's feelings about what you're doing. And I just found that there is a deep concern about waking sleeping dogs and not letting them lay lie news, all of those things.

[Zibby Owens]

I'm glad you brought up sleeping dogs, because I think that the pit bull section was one of my favorites in the book. Even though it was such a small sliver of the giant story, I feel like it represents so much more, right? You find this dog, you want to car for it, you're afraid to let it go. You want to, you think, consider adopting it, even though it makes, like, literally no sense at all, you know? And don't. I feel like we all have those instincts, right? Like, oh, I need to save this, I need to help with this, and it must be in my path so that I can do something. Like you and the dog and like your mom's journal, right? Like, you must be charged with doing something. And then at the end of the day, you have to say, okay, well, now I'm going to put it down and I'm going to leave it in good hands, which is almost like this book in our hands and just forage on.

[E.A. Hanks]

Yeah, it feels like the dog, that dog, you know, the story kind of has a bow on it in the book. But if I start thinking about that dog now, I will start to cry like it's a given. And all of the things that that dog represented for me on the trip, but then in the scope of my life, right. Sometimes you're just presented with the perfect manifestation, the perfect metaphor for what it is that you're dealing with. And I think if you grow up with an addict parent or a mentally ill parent or any. Any sort of figure that is limited in their ability to care for you by forces beyond their control, like way beyond their control. You grow up with a very complicated relationship to what care looks like and what love and support look like. And I say something in the book along the lines of, you know, there's plenty of people who grew up with addict parents whose problems go on to be the same addictions, right? The same drugs of choice, as they would say in the program your doc. But for me, that has always been loving the damaged or loving the unavailable or loving the absent. And that dog was like, okay, you think you've done all the work. You think you've done enough therapy. You think you're ready to move on? Let's test this. Let's see how good you are at setting down the struggles that are not yours to fight. And it was one of the hardest things I've ever done. And the descriptions of me crying in front of Texans on the Friday before a holiday, I pay some lip service to how awkward it was. It was mortifying. It was absolutely mortifying to be clearly having some sort of personal moment in front of a series of, you know, people just trying to get onto their four day, their three day weekend. So that the. I'm glad to hear that it resonated with you because it's still resonating with me.

[Zibby Owens]

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Today's episode has been sponsored by Wayfair. I don't know about you, but I love taking on a home design project. I love improving the house and making houses feel like homes. So it reflects who we are as a family and makes it work better for us. Right now it's home project season and if you have not used Wayfair, and I'm saying this from the bottom of my heart, I love Wayfair. This is like my go to spot for absolutely everything. Why? The price is great. It is so fast. The delivery is so fast and so reliable and the quality is really great and it holds up. What else could you possibly want in home design? Recently, we've gotten a bunch of new runners for this house that we're in now in Santa Monica. And it changed a hallway from something impersonal to something full of color and full of us. And it's just great. So if you have any sort of spring home goal or you're trying to make someplace new feel like you, this is the place to go. Shop the best selection of home improvement online. Get renovating with wayfair. Head to wayfair.com right now. That's W A Y-F A I R.com wayfair every style, every home. Today's episode has been sponsored by Fast Growing Trees. Did you know? Fast Growing Trees is the biggest online nursery in the US with thousands of different plants and over 2 million happy customers. They have all the plants your yard or house needs, like fruit trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, shrubs, and so much more. Whatever plants you're interested in, Fast Growing Trees has you covered. Find the perfect fit for your climate and space. Fast Growing Trees makes it easy to get your dream yard order online and get your plants delivered directly to your door in just a few days without ever leaving home. Their alive and thrive guarantee ensures your plants arrive happy and healthy. Plus, get support from trained plant experts on call to help you plan your landscape, choose the right plants and learn how to care for them. I am obsessed with the fiddle leaf fig tree, an indoor plant that I got from fast growing trees. It is so beautiful and it just came right to my door. No annoying trip to a nursery or I once had to go in midtown in New York City, not even midtown, all the way to the flower district to find a tree and put it in the car. And that was such a pain. Anyway, now these came right. Everything comes right to my door. And it's amazing. This spring they have the best deals for your yard, up to half off on select plants and other deals. And listeners to our show get 15% off their first purchase when using the code Readbooks at checkout. That's an additional 15% [e-mail] using the code readbooks at checkout. Fastgrowingtrees.com code readbooks now's the perfect time to plant indoors or out. Use Readbooks to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply. Today's episode has been sponsored by Quince. It is spring and I have so many travel plans, from book touring to travel with my kids to everything else. So this year I am treating myself to the luxe upgrades I deserve with Quince's high quality travel essentials at fair prices. And seriously, these prices are amazing whether you get this beautiful cashmere blue throw, which I got because you know, how nice is it to wrap yourself in a cozy blanket because airplanes don't give you blankets anymore and a navy blue suitcase. They have this fabulous hard shell carry on suitcase that I am just so excited to use. The best part about Quints, all items are 50 to 80% less than similar brands. By partnering with top factories, Quince cuts out the cost of the middleman and passes the savings on to us. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes, which I just love. So for your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from quince. Go to quince.com zibby for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's quincy.com zivvy to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quinns.com zivi well also the stories you tell about growing up with your mother and as you traverse the country, we learn more and more about her, about her relationship. She gets progressively ill in the narrative as you get further east in your drive until you know, we get to some of the bigger, not bigger, but the moments where you end up having to change custody as a result of her sort of dissociative states, I would say, or her more aggressive moments. And how you are trying to understand even how that happened to her in a very, I feel like, sympathetic way, by trying to learn more about her family, which she didn't know about and all of that. So tell me, like, what was that? What was the goal? And did you feel like you accomplished the goal in terms of your relationship with her?

[E.A. Hanks]

Yeah. Anybody who has buried a loved one knows what that. How the conversation becomes one sided. Right. And I talk to my mom all the time. I have, ever since she passed. And it's a. It's a one sided conversation with the idea of my mom on a good day. You know, no point trying to talk to her on a bad day, but trying to talk to her on a good day. And so it became this sort of running dialogue that is part of how I navigate the world. It's part of how I process what it is that's happening to me. I talk about it with my mom and in the process of finding her journals and her poetry, it started to feel like it was returning to a two way conversation because I was reading poetry that I knew that she wrote when she was alive, when I was a kid, but I never had access to. And using my professional skills to edit her and to take her seriously as an artist became this new facet to our relationship. And I don't think it was an experience that my mom ever had when she was alive, which was being taken seriously as an artist and certainly being taken seriously as a writer. And I talk at length about the limits of her writing and of her talent. But I think the way that I made peace with disturbing her peace was to approach her work with respect. And I think that the. If I had written a book 10 years after she died or five years after she died, it would be a completely different thing because I would be in a completely different splash zone of grief. But 20 years on, 20 years of processing and therapy and grief and doing the work meant that I could come to her poetry, which is sometimes really lovely, is sometimes really disturbing. It meant that I had enough space to focus on the writing as writing and not as receipts of my abuse. And one of the things that's really fascinating about this, this really tender time where the book stops being mine, because this has been. By the time the book comes out, it will have been 10 years of work. Ten years of having the idea, five years of it being a book that was sold to a publisher before I left on the trip. One of the great things about this, this time, where it goes from being mine and goes out into the world and, you know, people who I don't know are reading it is that they're being introduced to my mom, and I get to see her through their eyes. And that's like someone coming into your adolescent bedroom. Right. And seeing what posters are on the wall and where in the room did you hide your diary and whatever else you've hidden in your teenage bedroom. And I think of all the things, you know, you asked if I feel successful. When I showed the book to my dad, which was obviously a heavy moment for both of us, the first thing he said to me was, that is a description of the woman that I knew. And when you're dealing with someone who lived in hyperbole, whose entire sort of coping mechanism was built in extreme to deliver the readers an accurate description of that person and an accurate description of my deep ambivalence, as in my deep love for her and my deep fear of her. To know that the other people who were most closely entwined with her feel that it was accurate and loving, which I think is an important combination that, to me, is the win. So do I feel like I succeeded in connecting with my mother in a way that readers can appreciate? I think so, if only because given how I grew up and how she raised me and her relationship with the truth, which mangled my ability to tell the truth and to think truthfully as a kid, that, to me, is a big win for sure. Yeah.

[Zibby Owens]

Wow, that must be so satisfying. That's wonderful.

[E.A. Hanks]

Yeah, I think it's satisfying in that there's peace with the lack of resolution. Right?

[Zibby Owens]

Yep.

[E.A. Hanks]

There's. Who has a resolved relationship with their mother, Right?

[Zibby Owens]

Yeah, exactly.

[E.A. Hanks]

Dead or alive. Precisely. But do I feel like I've gotten pretty dang close? Yeah, I think I have. But it's, you know, grief is. Grief is ongoing. I'm 20 years, you know, 20 years deep since my mom died and my relationship, But I still have days where I wake up and miss the best version of her.

[Zibby Owens]

For sure. Yeah, of course. Can you not. I mean, you mentioned in the book some of the lasting impacts of her influence, essentially, and some of the sort of def. Not deficits, but some of the things about yourself that, you know, have come as a result of that.

[E.A. Hanks]

Yeah.

[Zibby Owens]

You talk about the, you know, truth telling, but you also talk about specific things like not having food in the fridge or other ways where you see it play out. How do you See it play out now, even after all the therapy and all the work and everything.

[E.A. Hanks]

This is such a perfectly timed question because I'm struggling right now and I know a lot of, a lot of people are because we're being overwhelmed with world events, local events, personal events. And just this week I was talking with my partner about how my most wobbly dominoes are falling right now. So I don't have enough food in my fridge right now when lunch is a rolled up tortilla, because that's what's around. I know that my sort of the fingerprints of my childhood are rearing their ugly head. So there are things that I have managed to, I think in the book I describe it to. When you first start driving, everything is really mannered, right? You're like, first I put on my seatbelt, next I check my mirrors. Like, because you've never done it before, it feels all very rehearsed and very mindful and very, very specific. And when I'm struggling, like I'm struggling a bit right now. I have to be, I. Things have to get so small. It has to be. First I make my bed before I do anything else. Then I brush my teeth before I leave the bedroom. Because if I come downstairs without those things done, if they're going to get done, they're not going to get done till 2:30 now, right? I have to have a standing grocery delivery to make sure. So there's all these sort of like. I think the difference is that I have, first of all, I call it minding the gap. The gap between the trigger and becoming aware of the trigger. The gap has gotten very small for me. So when I know, like, man, yesterday I had some oatmeal, some crackers, a rolled up tortilla and like half a can of Amy's instant soup. Like that I can see like, oh, okay. Things are starting to happen in my unconscious. You know, like when you're like a duck on the water, you know, everything's kind of smooth up top, but underneath there's a lot of work happening. So I. It's still there. You know, I'm still, I still struggle with the things I talk about in the book. Not having the muscle memory of having constant access to food, not having the, the support network or the, you know, when you, when you're, when you grow up in a, in a regulated house, I mean, emotionally regulated house, you are taught as a child to have routine so that it becomes habit. I'm still in the point where I have to work on the routine and things have to get very specific and mindful. So, you know, I'm still in it, they're still there, and I'm still working on it. That is, that's the process. And I'm still in process with those things. Especially when things get stressful and overwhelming. For sure.

[Zibby Owens]

Well, to know that about yourself and be able to articulate it like that is a gift.

[E.A. Hanks]

Yeah.

[Zibby Owens]

Is there? What is? I mean, you don't have to share the Wobbly Dominoes. Is there one worth sharing that is making you feel a little destabilized? And does the book coming out make that better or worse?

[E.A. Hanks]

Yeah, I would say that the, you know, one of my, one of my very good friends, when she read the book, she said to me, you know, there's stuff in here that I don't know and I've known you for a very long time, and one of them was that I struggle with a skin discoriation disorder, which is picking, pathologically picking at your skin until you are bleeding or you wound or you scar yourself. And I said, the only thing that I'm scared is in the book is the picking. Because everything else that's in the book I have a handle on. Everything else in the book I'm willing to discuss at length because while always in process, I'm over the hump. There's a degree of processing that has happened, but for me, the picking is something that I am not over the hump on. I'm on the near side of the hill and when I'm really stressed and I can tell that it's starting to literally show up on my body, that's a pretty clear sign to me that I'm struggling and that I need to talk to my therapist, I need to share with my partner, I need to call up a friend and see who has the bandwidth to listen to a two minute vent, you know, And I think that the. I think you can't go through life without wobbly dominoes. You're just blessed if you can clock them, if you know what they are, and you can kind of use them as the canary in the coal mine. And certainly that for me is the most glaring sign of the struggle bus heating up.

[Zibby Owens]

Wow, your expressions are so poetic. I hope you realize that, like, after the fact, I feel like I'm like, how do I highlight something that is happening in speech, in real time as like, you know what I mean? Like, I need to. There needs to be like a screen grab, a quote grab of, you know, zoom or reality or something. The way the TCAM works, you know, I'll take it.

[E.A. Hanks]

Yeah. Real time transcription.

[Zibby Owens]

Yeah, something like that.

[E.A. Hanks]

You must notate your books quite a bit. You must have strong marginalia game.

[Zibby Owens]

I don't. I dog ear. That's so. I dog ear whenever something strikes me and then I go back and if I can figure out what it was then chances are. And usually I can.

[E.A. Hanks]

But. Yeah, that sounds very familiar.

[Zibby Owens]

Yeah. Love to dog ear. Well, Elizabeth, I really appreciate you sharing, being so open not just with me today, but with the whole book and the whole story because it helps others open up their pasts and examine them and find ways to process and make our way through. As you said, it's something everybody works through in their own ways. So, yeah. Thank you so much. It was really, really a pleasure. Thank you.

[E.A. Hanks]

Thank you. I appreciate it. I think increasingly our most precious resource is time. So I appreciate yours very much.

[Zibby Owens]

Oh, thank you so much. All right. Good luck with all your lunch.

[E.A. Hanks]

Thank you so much. Take care.

[Zibby Owens]

Okay.

[E.A. Hanks]

Have a good day.

[Zibby Owens]

You too. Bye bye. Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram ibbeowens and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books. Everyone has a reason to change. Growing old, heartbreak, a fresh start. Whatever it may be, Peloton is here to get you through life's biggest moments with workouts you can do on your time and motivation that keeps you coming back. Peloton's tread and all Access membership help you track progress in classes from runs to Pilates, making you stronger and your fitness goals a reality. Find your push, Find your power peloton visit1peloton.com whenever I need to send roses that are guaranteed to make someone's day, the only place I trust is 1-800-flowers.com with 1-800-flowers. My friends and family always receive stunning high quality bouquets that they absolutely love. Right now, when you buy a dozen multicolored roses, 1-800-flowers will double your bouquet to two dozen roses. To claim this special double roses offer, go to 1-800-flowers.com acast that's 1-800flowers.com acasta what makes a great pair of glasses?

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[Zibby Owens]

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[E.A. Hanks]

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