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- [00:01]
Advertiser 1
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- [00:30]
Zibby Owens
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- [00:55]
Paige Desorbo
This is Paige desorbo, the co host of Giggly Squad. I have exciting news. McDonald's has all new McCrispy strips. It's chicken made for dipping, tender juicy white meat chicken with a golden brown peppery breading. It's chicken so good it deserves its own sauce, the creamy chili McCrispy strip dip. A sauce that's creamy, savory and sweet with a little heat. But it works with any of our sauces. I'm personally a barbecue sauce girl, even sometimes I like ketchup. I'm just like basic sometimes, but I also need it. In addition to any new sauces, I'm trying with a new Creamy Chili McCrispy Strip Dip. It's chicken made for dipping only at McDonald's.
- [01:37]
Zibby Owens
Hi, this is Zibby Owens and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. And as a bookstore owner, publisher, author and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to stay in the know. Get insider insights and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbymedia.com and follow me on Instagram. Ibbeowens ihioma niwachu kuo is the author of Japa and Other Stories. Ihioma grew up in Lagos, Nigeria. After working as a Chinese herbal medicine salesman for a few years while writing, he won a fellowship to come to the US for graduate school. His writing has appeared in Italy's Internationale Electric Literature, the Southern Review, the Iowa Review and other venues. His fiction has earned a Pushcart Prize special mention and a Best American Short story is notable. Iheoma is working on a novel and a short story collection. He is an assistant professor at Eastern University. Welcome, Ihioma. I'm delighted to have you on totally booked to talk about Japa and other stories. Did I pronounce that right? Chapa?
- [03:05]
Ihioma Nwachu
Yes, Chapa. Yeah, it's. Yeah.
- [03:08]
Zibby Owens
What? What? Tell me, what did I do wrong?
- [03:11]
Ihioma Nwachu
So it's. So it's the P word in Yoruba language, which is where it's from, the word Japa. It's pronounced Jack Pa, not pa, but it's like a PA sound like a KW almost, you know? Yeah. But it's okay.
- [03:27]
Zibby Owens
Sorry, you know, that's fine. Well, congratulations. Whatever it's called, however it's pronounced, I can read it and that's the most important thing. Almost doesn't matter. That's the good thing about reading. You like, make up how everything sounds in your head anyway. You'll never. We'll never know. Okay, so congratulations on this short story collection that has gotten so much attention. Oh my gosh. Were you even prepared for this? And just take us. Okay. Were you even prepared for all of the attention this book has gotten?
- [03:56]
Ihioma Nwachu
No. When I put the collection together, I was living in Mississippi and so I was about to leave Mississippi to come to Pennsylvania and then I entered the book for the Fiery corner and, you know, started coming to Pennsylvania. And the day that I got an email. So in 2023 today, I got an email saying you won. I was. So I'm in, I'm in my basement right now. So I was in my basement, I was writing and I looked over the notification on my phone. It said, and I'm like, okay, a scam. One of the scams come in again. And then. But I went up and my wife was in the kitchen. I was like, yo, look, this woman said, I want this competition. It's probably scam. You know, we get all the scams. But then I think I got a follow up email from Lori Oslon, who's the editor of the foc. And that's when I was like, okay, this is, this is, this is for real. And of course, fast forward to, you know, enter. I entered my book for some awards, but not a lot. And I didn't hear. So basically my thing is I don't check to see like, oh, like, you know, go online to see have they announced anything. Right. So I really don't like doing that because the anticipation could wreck you. And so what I did was, you know, I, I ended up checking for one of the things that I entered and, and found out they had announced, like, I think the winners, like, maybe a month ago. I'm like, oh, my God, I'm not going to get anything. So I was like, yeah, it looks like it's not going to happen. Then one day, I think when this was probably, was it in February or March when the long list was announced, I got an email saying embargoed and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, oh, my God, this is, it's, it's impossible. And for me, it's, it's a very, the, the fact that it gained its attention for me is monumental because we tried. And when I say we, I mean me and UGA Press, we try to get, you know, a buzz going, you know, how the industries get reviewers to look at the book. And we weren't quite successful with that, so. And what I felt was that, you know, if you have a boss, when, at least, you know, when you have judges looking at books, they might have heard of your book, you know, because of the ball that you simulated, you know, prior to them, you know, judging the competition. And so we didn't have any of that going forward. And so this has been like a shock, right? Yes. I had no idea this was going to happen, but I mean, I'm very, very happy we're here.
- [06:37]
Zibby Owens
So you wrote this collection of short stories loosely based or inspired by your experience moving from Nigeria to the States and having. Right, this is what I've read. But now why don't you tell me the real truth? Tell me about the backstory. Tell me about the stories themselves and how they came into existence.
- [06:56]
Ihioma Nwachu
Okay, so when I thought of a linked collection, I was thinking of, I don't know if you're, if you're familiar with Arkin Orion. It was an Indian fiction writer, very successful Indian fiction writer. And he had this book, one of his books was a collection of short stories titled Malays. The Malgudi is a fictional Indian town. Right. And so when. So basically, for me, the realization of that is the story which is like a fictional place in Nigeria. Right. So basically the whole collection was. Was, you know, trying to do a linked collection, was trying to do an arcane Orion. Right. But the inspiration for this stories, of course, was my experience in the U.S. you know, 2016, 2017 to 2020. And so that was like the driving force of trying to put a Collection together. I'm a very stubborn person. So my prior collections did not have. They were not automatically linked. I am the sort of person who I just push against that. But this time around, something said to me, it's time, you know, and so I responded to that voice and that's. That, that's the way I work. I could have 10 people saying, you gotta do this. You have to do it. Like, I will not do it until I hear the voice that says, okay, now it's time to do it. And. And so when I put the collection together, the voice is saying, it is time to do that themed collection. So I decided, all right, I'm gonna put it together. And so I started to write the stories and the stories. The first story, the first story in the collection is actually the first story I wrote. No, no, the first thing I wrote.
- [08:41]
Zibby Owens
For the collection, like, wow, my first short story that I wrote was not good and I was nine years old. But anyway, yeah, so it was the.
- [08:53]
Ihioma Nwachu
First story that I actually wrote for the collection was the first, you know, you know how when you write the stories, you then have to arrange them, right? Because I did have to move some things around. But. But that first day was the first one, you know, that I was, you know, that I roots for, for the collection. So after that was done and I wrote the stories, you know, I had, I had an agent who had, prior to this time, tried to sell my collection. And what he did was, you know, I had series of publishing, the Iowa Review, the Slaughter Review. And so he wanted to play off that strength and so have all the stories in the collection and then try to sell them. Didn't work, right. And so I parted ways with the agent and I was like, okay, I'm going to try to do this myself. And so I put together the collection, wrote the stories, and then had all of the other stories that I felt were thematically linked to what I was trying to do. I put those stories, the titles, on the wall, right? Just wrote them out, you know, on a piece of paper put on the wall. And for three months I would walk past the world, look at them, and then try to move them around. And so that's how basically the order of the stories came about, was that that was another. Another entire process on its own of me just walking past this list of tattoos in my study in Mississippi, just walking past, back and forth, back and forth over like a three month period and just going, yeah, you don't belong. I'm sorry. And some stories, you know, were really hard to take out of the collection because I love them. They have been published at prestigious journals, but. But they did not belong. That was one of the hardest decisions to make. It was like, you know, pulling out stories that were gorgeous stories but just weren't doing anything really did not belong in the collection. And so that's how I put the collection together was basically a Slavic process. Some of the stories have been published in the Iomar View or not the Southern Review. That was on the chairs. So all of made the collection, right? And then those that had not been published yet, but were sitting on my computer. But I knew there were great stories. I knew they belonged in the collection, so those made the collection.
- [11:09]
Zibby Owens
I love the idea that there's this wall in Mississippi of short stories pinned and the image of you just like a man and his wall of stories, moving them around, fast forwarding over time. Like, even that is just such a cool image. Should be like a chapter, like a picture book for kids, like how we make stories or something. Anyway, whatever. Never mind. So tell me about your own life experience. When. Why did you come to, like, what is your story? I know, Give me your story. Geographically, timing, all of that.
- [11:42]
Ihioma Nwachu
All right. I have a first degree in biochemistry. Okay. I. My intention. And then, of course, the intention of my parents was that I was going to be a medical doctor, right? Because a lot of times in Nigeria, parents give you like, three, four choices. If parents have a bright kid, they give you, like, you know, maybe three or four choices. You're either a doctor, a medical doctor, a lawyer, an engineer. That was. I mean, in my experience, there was nobody that.
- [12:14]
Zibby Owens
This is not so different from Jewish parents, I'll have, you know, very similar. Doctors, lawyers, you know, the whole. Anyway, keep going.
- [12:22]
Ihioma Nwachu
Yes. So, in fact, growing up, My nickname was Dr. Oh, you know. Yeah. 10 years old, 11 years old. I was a kid who, you know, they're like, he's gonna be a doctor. He's pretty bright. That's gonna happen. But I also loved reading. I love. I loved, loved reading. I love poetry. I read poetry a lot. In fact, I wrote poems before I started writing fiction. So poetry was a part of my life for a long time. I've read a lot of books. In fact, I was telling someone the other day when I was, like, still in Nigeria. Our high school is six years. We have six years of primary school and six years of secondary school. So I was in my second year of secondary school, and I was fighting my best friend in the library of a book because I didn't know we were reading the same book and I didn't know what we found out we were in the same book, started fighting about the book in the library and they kicked us out of the library. But usually what I would do was I would, when I found the book because I loved it so much. The book is titled the Adventures of Susa. When I would find the book after I was done, I would hide it. I would not put it back on the shelf, I would put it underneath the shelf. So like social sciences, I go to that section and put, and hide the book underneath the shelf. But of course, the next day when I came back, it wasn't there to put it back. They put it back where it was supposed to be. Right. So, so my, so, so I, I, I went on, you know, to, to the sciences usually. But the reason I did the sciences in secondary school was because all my friends were in the sciences and it was a cool place to be. However, in my third year of secondary school, we're taking aptitude tests because we do take aptitude tests in Nigeria and those tests determine whether for your last three years of, you know, secondary school, whether you're going to be in the sciences and what we call the commercials or you're going to be in the arts. So I scored highest for arts, second for science, and you know, last was commercial. So I was supposed to go do the arts, but my friends were in the sciences. I was like, okay, I love my friends, I want to hang out my friends. So I went on to do the science and also because I was expected to be a doctor, so went on to college, you know, did, was a biochemist, you know, got into the biochemistry, finishing, you know, that's not what I wanted to do. I couldn't, I think God made it that I couldn't find a job because I guess my destiny was to be a writer. And so if I had a job, if I had found a job after I left college, I would not, I don't know if I would have ended up writing fiction. So I guess the, the circumstances had to be right for me to see that fiction was the only way out for me. Right.
- [15:11]
Zibby Owens
I love that fiction as backup plan.
- [15:16]
Ihioma Nwachu
But, but it wasn't even a backup plan.
- [15:18]
Zibby Owens
It was like, I'm joking, I'm joking.
- [15:19]
Ihioma Nwachu
Yeah. But yeah, it was like, I have this nothing else because I was helping my father run. He had, my dad had a Sabbath cafe, you know, it was his building. So like, you know, he had an office downstairs. And then I was, I was running that while I was trying to figure out what my next move was. So I was writing fiction. But. So when I was writing fiction, it wasn't because the goal was to get into a journal or the goal was to go to an msa. It was, I can do this. I have all of the stories and I want to tell them, right? So I was writing them. And I was a Nigerian journal back then that was called. I think it's called. No, what's a theory was. I forget what the name was, but I'll get back to it later. But this. This journal was. You know, they were asking for submissions, and I would write a story every week and send them a story, but I would, you know. And then finally they took one story. It ended up not being published even after we had signed, you know. And then much later, I got a story into a journal. And then the writer, Chimamanda Adichie, I don't know if you're familiar with. Yeah, of course, because she runs a fiction workshop in Nigeria every. Every year. I don't know if it's still running, but. So this was probably. I think I'd say 2006 or seven that I attended the workshop. I think it's probably 2007. So I attended the workshop, you know, sent an entry. I was accepted. And then I met someone at the workshop, a writer, Kenyan writer called Binya Vanga Waina. So Wayne Anna. So he loved my work, and he said, look, why don't you just send me more of your stories? You know? And I was like, sure. So I started to send him stories. He liked one of those stories. And I met him the next year in Lagos, I think probably a couple years later, I met him in Lagos. And he said, well, I'm gonna set up a fellowship, you know. So he was the director of the Chinua Achebe center for African Writers in Bard College in New York. Right? I did. I didn't know that. No one knew that because he didn't advertise that, because if he did at the workshop, a lot of people would just come to him and, you know, try to bootleg him in order to get favors from him. So he didn't tell anyone. And I didn't know, you know, but I just did like that he liked my work. So, you know, I hung around him just so I could talk to him. So basically what happened was I got a fellowship, and in 2010, I went to Ghana and I lived in a hotel for four months writing short stories. You know, back then, I got paid $1,000 tax free, and then lived in a hotel. They paid accommodation and then fed me for four months. And at the end of that, being your banker comes to me and says, you know, there are actually schools in America that, you know. So he's talking about MFA programs, which I had no idea what MFA was was. It says that this schools in America that, you know, they can pay for you to come, you know, and just come and write and write stories that, you know, you attend classes and at the end of the day you get an msa. And I'm like, really? He's like, yeah, and we're gonna make it possible for you to apply. And so basically what they did was all the application fees for the seven MFA programs I applied to, they paid for that, and then they paid my ticket, you know, from Nigeria to the US so that's how I came to the US in 2011. And I ended up at the Mission center for Writers in Austin, Texas. Shout out to Texas. I still love. Austin's a beautiful place. I miss that city. So I. So that's how basically I came to the US was I came to do an MFA. So after the MFA, I then ended up doing the PhD and after the PhD got a job market and, you know, voila. Here.
- [19:28]
Zibby Owens
My gosh.
- [19:30]
Ihioma Nwachu
Wow.
- [19:32]
Zibby Owens
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- [21:04]
Paige Desorbo
This is Paige Desorbo, the co host of Giggly Squad. I have exciting news. McDonald's has all new McCrispy strips. It's chicken made for dipping. Tender, juicy white meat chicken with a golden brown peppery breading. It's chicken so good it deserves its own sauce. The creamy chili McCrispy strip dip. A sauce that's creamy, savory and sweet with a little heat. But it works with any of our sauces. I. I'm personally a barbecue sauce girl. Even sometimes I like ketchup. I'm just like basic sometimes, but I also need it. In addition to any new sauces, I'm trying with a new Creamy Chili McCrispy Strip Dip. It's chicken made for dipping only at McDonald's.
- [21:43]
Advertiser 1
The mother of all sales is happening right now at Designer Shoe Warehouse. Score up to 25% off big deal brands like Adidas, Crocs, Converse, Reebok and more. And just in time for Mother's Day. Find the perfect gift for her or for you because mama needs a new pair of shoes. And hurry. This Mother Lovin deal ends Sunday. Save up to 25% at your DSW store or DSW.com today.
- [22:15]
Zibby Owens
So then how do you make time to do all the different things? Like when do you, when are you writing? When are you thinking of things? How, when are you editing? Like when are you, how are you organizing your time?
- [22:29]
Ihioma Nwachu
That's a good question. I have three kids now.
- [22:32]
Zibby Owens
Oh wow. How old are they?
- [22:34]
Ihioma Nwachu
They are 6, 9, 12 now. He just turns 12, right? So in the beginning, say back in 2011 when I was, you know, for a brief period, I was alone, right? I didn't have, I didn't have a TV and so I could write all day. The Mission center is a very competitive program. So, you know, you had to be bring your A game and all that. So I was constantly writing then I don't really have. I have a struggle with time, with finding time to write. However, as the kids started to come, I had to shift that time and adapt my writing time around them, right? So they, I'll say back in Tallahassee, right? I would write. I started to write. I'll come back from a PhD program thing and write from like say 10pm to about 12, right? After a while I had to move to 3am So I started to write at 3am but, but here's what I told myself. I said, look, when I first got to Tallahassee to do my PhD, I said to myself, look, the reason you're here is because, you know, they love your. Your writing. That's how you got into the program. That's going to come first. So I had to. For me, I had built in my mind a hierarchy of, like, okay, so what's going on here? The writing comes first, right? Secondly, you know, you have to. You're also taking classes. If you fail those classes, you do not graduate. So those classes come second, and then, you know, the teaching comes third. Because, you know, you. You. You're gonna teach, right? And you're gonna do your best, but you need to be honest with yourself. The writing is who you are. If I don't write, I'm not me. So the writing is very important because it defines who I am as a person in the world. If I. If I didn't rise, I probably fall sick, and I would not, you know, would not be able to take class if I even teach any of my students. So it wasn't. Teaching wasn't last because it was the least. It was something I paid the least attention to. That's because, you know, everything else was feeding into who I was as a person. I was just, you know, I was being pragmatic, right? If, you know, without the. The classes I was taking, if I failed them, that was no way I was going to graduate. No matter how well I was doing the teaching I could, I would not be able to graduate from the program, right? And so. So that's. So it was just a pragmatic list because, you know, I felt this was how I was going to be able to succeed, you know, doing the PhD. But. But then I also told myself that the school had the great library, and so you need to take advantage of that library. So I used to go to the library to write. Sometimes in between classes, I would go there. I would go there on a Saturday, go use the library and write. Especially when I was working in a novel, it would be like, you know, like, okay, this, like, you have one hour, you go there. And I always use the same computer on the same side of the library. So go there. It was my favorite computer. If someone was using the computer, I would not work. I would just walk around and come back and use that computer. So that's so. So those blocks of time where. When I could work at school and then 3:00am you know, I start. I wake up 3:00am and then I write to, like, six, you know, and I'm ready. I wasn't getting a lot of sleep back in those days, but today, basically my, my thing is I, I wake up at five because I teach. So I wake up at five, I write for an hour, then you know, exercise, then, then I'm off to work. And I prepare. But I do, I do the preparation for class the night before, right? And my thinking is say something happens, you're out of power. I don't want to go to work with excuses and say, well I, I couldn't prepare because I've no power in the morning right now. I can give myself excuses about my work and be like, yeah, I couldn't write because, you know, power was out. But if I'm employed somewhere, I, I can't go there and tell them, right? And so that's, that's the reason I work. I prepare for my classes the night before and then the morning of, I do, I do the writing and you know, and then the preparation for, for that day go out the door. So the, the, the, the thinking, you know, and I like to, I don't like to say thinking. I like to say dreaming. The dreaming. The dreaming is when I'm brushing my teeth, when I'm driving, if I'm say doing dishes or just, you know, whatever the activities that I'm doing in the bathroom. Those, like, if I'm taking a shower, those are just, those are moments of magic because that's when, you know, you know, when you're working on story, you're carrying that story with you everywhere, right? And so like when it's inside of you and you're bathing, you're brushing your tears, things happen and then things shift around, right? But also dreaming, that actual dreaming while sleeping, you know, Steinberg, Steinbeck called it the, the committee of sleep. That helps you with, you know, characters, setting, you know, while you're sleeping, they're like, they're helping you sort things out. That does help. And that works sometimes. And so my thing is if I wake up at 5am I run to the computer where I'm like in this almost non compostment state and then look at the manuscript. And things shift around in manuscripts when you do that. In fact, for a story, one of the stories in my collection, Urban Gorilla, which I wrote while I was in, I believe that's what happened in Tallahassee. So during my last in Tallahassee, that story that was a section of it, the, the end part of the story that I struggled with a lot. And my, my agents at the time David McCormick, he would say to me, I'll send him. You know, I was like, the story's done. I sent it to him like, this ending doesn't work. You know, you have to rewrite the ending. And I said, okay, well, so what I'm gonna do is. Because usually what I used to do is when I would wake up at 3am I would wash my face, then just relax and then go back and go into the work. And I said, this time around, I will not wash that face. I will not, you know, prepare to. So, like, you know, go into the work. I would just launch into the manuscript. And so I woke up that night and opened up the manuscript immediately. And I tell you, it was like magic. It was like someone was telling me what to do. It's like, here, like this. And I just. I'm just going. And then. And then. And then it ended. So, like, the ending of that story was basically. So that's how we came, you know. Now, it doesn't always happen like that, but it's. I think it's the best state to write in that state where you. You're sort of like in a. In a dream state, right? And so you have. So all of these other moments where you're. You're driving. So like in a. In a, you know, sort of quasi dream state, you're in the bathroom, you know. Right. So those moments put together the moments that produce, you know, the work. And so usually I tell my students that the writing is not done well while you're behind the computer. It's done while you're walking around. It's done while you're doing all these other things. You know, something comes to you about a character. You're like, oh, that's interesting. And then you file that away and then something else. But maybe while you're talking to your friend, you. A flash of color. And that reminds you about something about. Reminds you about the character, you know, and then you're like, okay, that seems interesting. I found that. You know, away again. And then when you go to bed, everything comes together in the compost heap.
- [30:39]
Zibby Owens
Love it.
- [30:40]
Ihioma Nwachu
And then you wake up and you have that. And then you. You expand that, you extrapolate. And that's why you get a lot to write. And I don't spend a lot of time, you know, I'm not going to spend three hours sitting there because, you know. Yeah, well, first I have to get out. But, like, after a while, you run out of the magic juice. You're like, okay, I got nothing. To give this manuscript. There's no point in sitting there just because anything I write past a point where when I run out, I know I'm going to cut out later. I'm just wasting my time.
- [31:13]
Zibby Owens
Okay.
- [31:14]
Ihioma Nwachu
Right.
- [31:14]
Zibby Owens
Yeah.
- [31:15]
Ihioma Nwachu
Yeah.
- [31:16]
Zibby Owens
Amazing. Well, this has been fascinating also. We both have dimples. And I think that only nice people have dimples. This is my theory. Right? It's like a tell. It's like the universe gives dimples to people who you can just look at and say, oh, look, they're like a nice person. So it's a shortcut. So anyway, whenever I meet someone with dimples, I feel like, immediate connection. So anyway, congratulations on your book.
- [31:40]
Ihioma Nwachu
Thank you.
- [31:41]
Zibby Owens
Wish you all the best. And thanks for sharing your story.
- [31:44]
Ihioma Nwachu
Sure. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
- [31:46]
Zibby Owens
My pleasure. All right, take care. Bye. Bye.
- [31:49]
Ihioma Nwachu
You too. Bye. Bye.
- [31:50]
Zibby Owens
Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby formerly Moms don't have time to read Books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram ibbyoens and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.
- [32:12]
Paige Desorbo
This is Paige desorbo, the co host of Giggly Squad. I have exciting news. McDonald's has all new McCrispy strips. It's chicken made for dipping. Tender, juicy white meat chicken with a golden brown peppery breading. It's chicken so good it deserves its own sauce. The creamy chili McCrispy strip dip. A sauce that's creamy, savory and sweet with a little heat. But it works with any of our sauces. I'm personally a barbecue sauce girl. Even sometimes I like ketchup. I'm just like basic sometimes, but I also need it. In addition to any new sauces, I'm trying with a new Creamy Chili McCrispy Strip Dip. It's chicken made for dipping only at McDonald's.
- [32:50]
Zibby Owens
Ever wonder what your lashes are destined for? The cards have spoken. Maybelline, New York Mascara does it all. Whether you crave fully Fan lashes with Lash. Sensational big bold volume from the Colossal. A dramatic lift with falsies Lash lift or natural looking volume from Great Lash. Your perfect Lash future awaits. Manifest your best mascara today. Shop Maybelline New York and discover your Lash destiny. Shop now at Walmart.
- [33:15]
Advertiser 1
Every idea starts with a problem. Warby Parker's was simple. Glasses are too expensive. So they set out to change that. By designing glasses in house and selling directly to customers, they're able to offer prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable. Warby Parker glasses are made from premium materials like impact resistant polycarbonate and custom acetate, and they start at just $95, including prescription lenses. Get glasses made from the good stuff. Stop by a Warby Parker store near you.