Jen Butler, MOM, REDISCOVERED: My Midlife Breakup with Drinking and Diet Culture

Summary

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Totally Booked with Zibby

Guest: Jen Butler, Author of Mom, Rediscovered: My Midlife Breakup with Drinking and Diet Culture
Host: Zibby Owens
Date: November 10, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this warm, deeply honest episode, Zibby Owens welcomes Jen Butler to discuss her memoir, Mom, Rediscovered, which chronicles Jen’s transformative journey through motherhood, midlife, sobriety, and breaking up with diet culture. Together, they unpack Jen’s experiences with “wine mom” culture, the challenges and liberation of sobriety, growing up amidst pervasive diet culture, and the ongoing process of self-acceptance. The episode is suffused with mutual admiration, candid storytelling, and practical wisdom for women navigating similar struggles.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Meeting and Connection (03:28–07:14)

• Zibby and Jen share the story of how they met at a New York women’s literary event—described by Jen as “an incredible full circle moment.”
• Jen recounts initially hesitating over the event’s price, ultimately attending, and feeling immediately welcomed by Zibby’s warmth.
• Quote:
  Jen (04:12): “A friend who is a huge reader...said to me, there’s this woman, Zibby Owens, and I think you would really jibe with her...I put myself on the wait list, and then a spot opened up and I thought, well, I guess it was meant to be.”
• Zibby and Jen discuss their evolving friendship, rooted in authentic sharing, supportive writing, and connecting over their innermost thoughts (06:33).

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The Book: Mom, Rediscovered – Origins and Themes (07:14–09:35)

• Jen describes her memoir as a “coming of middle age” story (07:21). The core: her transition from “dream-come-true” motherhood to dealing with unexpected struggles—leaving her career, facing isolation, and succumbing to wine mom culture’s normalization of drinking to cope.
• She candidly relates her journey through “gray area drinking” and how quitting revealed underlying issues: identity beyond motherhood and entanglement in diet culture.
• Quote:
  Jen (08:07): “I fell into what I call gray area drinking...realized that for me, that became a problem. How I got myself out of that, and then what my life has been like since then.”
• Jen stresses that sobriety is not a cure-all; it exposes other challenges to be addressed.

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Gray Area Drinking and Wine Mom Culture (09:59–12:56)

• Jen explains “gray area drinking”—not at clinical addiction, but problematic enough to spiral, needing self-intervention.
  Jen (10:06): “I can’t go for more than a day or two without drinking...I would wake up anywhere from groggy to fully hungover...say, ‘Forget it, I’m not drinking tonight,’ and by 5 PM, like clockwork, I would be reaching for the wine.”
• The role of “wine mom” culture, which normalizes and glorifies drinking as essential self-care for moms, making it hard to recognize or address patterns as unhealthy.
• Quote:
  Jen (12:25): “Wine mom culture is all about, like, wine is a tool you need to survive motherhood. And I fully bought into that because I was feeling so isolated in my struggles as a mom.”

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Diet Culture: A Lifelong Struggle (13:33–20:58)

• Growing up in the ‘80s and ‘90s, Jen internalized “thinness as the goal” and began dieting at age 12, mirroring her mother’s Weight Watchers participation.
• Quote:
  Jen (17:48): “I tried Weight Watchers for the first time when I was 12. My mom was on it...And even then, I remember tracking my points and feeling hungry, and it just—it just felt awful.”
• Throughout her life, Jen’s self-worth remained entangled with her body’s size and the quest to “take up less space.”
• During COVID, the pressure peaked; she worked with a restrictive nutritionist—until, burned out by deprivation, she finally let go and moved toward body appreciation over thinness.
• Jen now teaches fitness, promoting presence and gratitude over striving for an aesthetic ideal, though old doubts persist.

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Practice, Not Perfection — Self-Acceptance & Advice (20:50–23:16)

• Zibby asks whether hitting “rock bottom” is necessary for change. Jen insists it isn’t: Jen (21:44): “You do not have to hit rock bottom in any area of your life. I didn’t hit rock bottom with my drinking. I didn’t hit rock bottom with breaking up with diet culture. But I got to a point where I had had enough.”
• Jen’s mantra is “practice”—acceptance is ongoing work.
  Jen (22:00): “Practice is one of my favorite words...You just have to try and try and try...it will never be done. It will get easier, but it will never be necessarily easy, but you just have to keep going.”

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From Blogger to Book Author: The Path to Publishing (23:16–25:55)

• Jen’s long-standing desire to write a book began with journaling in adolescence. Originally envisioning “quit-lit,” she expanded her focus to encompass the broader arc of motherhood and self-rediscovery.
• She almost pivoted to a self-help book but, after advice from Zibby, stayed committed to telling her authentic story.
• Quote:
  Jen (24:12): “I sent a DM to Zibby Owens and I said, hey Zibby, what do you think of this idea? And Zibby said to me, ‘Jen, I’m going to be honest with you. Don’t try to play the market, write from your heart. Everybody has a story to share. Everybody’s story is worth sharing.’”
• Both celebrate the empowerment of sharing true, “ordinary” stories and encouraging others to do the same.

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Vulnerability and Impact (26:06–28:40)

• Zibby asks if Jen feels exposed with her story in the world. Jen admits parts—her relationships, sexuality, struggles with PMDD—feel deeply vulnerable, but reader feedback has already validated her candor.
• Quote:
  Jen (26:21): “I share very vulnerably about everything from, like...I talk about how I lost my virginity. I talk about some sex stuff...But...I have already had advanced readers come up to me and say, ‘Thank you so much for sharing this...I think I have that [PMDD], I gotta go talk to my doctor.’...they no longer feel they are alone in their struggles makes it all worth it.”

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Looking Forward — What’s Next for Jen (29:05–30:29)

• Jen hints at a possible future memoir still in the living-and-learning stage, but her focus is shifting to fiction, inspired by a dinner conversation with her kids.
• She’s excited and intimidated by her first foray into a “dual timeline forbidden love story,” set in a place formative to her own life.
• Quote:
  Jen (29:32): “I’ve never written fiction before, but I am so fired up about this story—it will not let go. It’s like it’s keeping me up at night, it’s waking me up in the morning, and I’m really excited about it.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You do not have to hit rock bottom in any area of your life...I got to a point where I had enough.” — Jen Butler (21:44)
• “Don’t try to play the market, write from your heart. Everybody has a story to share. Everybody’s story is worth sharing.” — Zibby Owens (24:12, paraphrased)
• “Practice is one of my favorite words...It’s never necessarily easy, but it is easier, for sure.” — Jen Butler (22:00)
• “I hope everyone who hears this also takes that advice [to tell their stories], because...we all have stories that are worth sharing.” — Jen Butler (25:55)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:28 — Jen and Zibby’s first meeting, event backstory
• 07:14 — Jen introduces Mom, Rediscovered and its central themes
• 10:06 — Defining “gray area drinking,” personal experience
• 12:25 — The normalization of “wine mom” culture
• 17:48 — Jen’s first experiences with diet culture & family influence
• 21:44 — The “enough is enough” moment; the role of practice
• 23:31 — From journals to memoir; advice from Zibby
• 26:21 — Vulnerability in memoir, reaching readers
• 29:05 — Jen’s next creative steps, fiction writing

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Tone & Style

The conversation is empathetic, encouraging, and highly relatable—marked by vulnerability, mutual endorsement, and the welcoming air of personal storytelling among friends. Both Zibby and Jen speak with candid warmth, fostering a supportive, inspiring environment for listeners, especially women navigating the complexities of identity, motherhood, and self-compassion.

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Summary Takeaways

• Mom, Rediscovered is both a personal journey and an invitation: to question cultural norms, to seek community, and to courageously share one’s story—no matter how “ordinary” it may seem.
• Jen’s experience speaks to broader issues facing women today: the insidious grip of wine mom culture and diet culture, the necessity of honest support groups, and the relentless need for self-kindness and “practice” over perfection.
• The episode doubles as an open call: Everyone’s story matters, and sharing creates community and change.

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Listeners are left with the sense that vulnerability is a source of strength and connection, and that the process of rediscovering oneself—at any age—is invaluable and ongoing.

Transcript

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[Jen Butler]

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[Jen Butler]

Did I talk too much? Can't I just let it go? Thank you so much.

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[Zibby Owens]

Let's talk about what's going on.

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[Zibby Owens]

Hi, this is Zibby Owens and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to stay in the know, get insider insights and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbedia.com and follow me on Instagram. Iby Owens.

Jen Butler is the author.

Of Mom My Midlife Breakup With Drinking and Diet Culture.

Jen is a writer, speaker, alcohol free.

Coach for women, and fitness instructor who.

Believes wholeheartedly in the transformative power of sharing stories.

A mom of two middle schoolers, she draws from her own journey through motherhood, midlife and perimenopause to encourage women to.

Practice self compassion and forge meaningful connections.

Empowering them to take up space as.

Their amazing authentic selves in their families, friendships, careers and communities. She lives with her family in Westchester County, New York. Welcome Jen. Thank you so much for coming on Totally Booked to talk about your book Mom My Midlife Breakup With Drinking and Diet Culture. Congratulations.

[Jen Butler]

Thank you. Zivi, thank you so much for having me here.

[Zibby Owens]

Yay. Okay, so we, you and I have quite the backstory at this point, even though it hasn't been that much time. It's been intense. Let's talk about.

[Jen Butler]

In a good way.

[Zibby Owens]

In a good way, in a good way.

[Jen Butler]

Nobody panicked.

[Zibby Owens]

All in the all good. So I first met you in person when you came to Totally Booked Live. Was that the event? No, no, no.

[Jen Butler]

It was before that year. New chapter. That's right, New Year, January 2024.

[Zibby Owens]

Yes, exactly. And you were so amazing and you wrote this fabulous piece about it afterwards, which I absolutely loved. And I was like, oh my gosh.

You'Re such a good writer.

Who are you? So how did you end up even at that event? And take us from there to here.

[Jen Butler]

Oh my gosh, I love our story and I'm so glad that you're asking me to share it and to share it with you right now because this is really such an incredible full circle moment for me. So a friend who is a huge reader, book fan, fan of yours said to me, there's this woman, Zibby Owens, and I think you would really jibe with her. I think you'd really enjoy what she's about. And she's having an event in New York City and you should go with me. We'll go together. And I thought, I don't know, okay, maybe. And I looked it up and I thought, oh my gosh, it's $175. I don't know, I don't know. And I was hesitant and it sold Out. And I thought, well, I guess it wasn't meant to be. So I. But I put myself on the wait list, and then a spot opened up and I thought, well, I guess it was meant to be. And so I went, met my friend Cindy there. And you were standing at the door when we came in, and it was right. Something had happened to you that I forget now what it was, but I read about it on your Instagram, and I instantly felt like we were friends. And so I said hi to you, and I was like, hey, Zibby, sorry about that thing that happened. And then in my head, I thought, do I sound like a crazy person or a stalker that I'm, like, sharing this with her? But you were so open and friendly and natural. And I felt like we were friends from the get go. And that, for me, really set the tone of the whole event. It was an amazing event. I hope you guys do it this coming January in 2020. There were so many authors there. The environment was so warm. And it moved me to write a substack post about it because. And I titled that post something like, you know, I never knew women could be this nice, or something like that. That's really how it felt. The energy of that day was so supportive and open and warm, and it was really a revelation for me that you could create that kind of environment and that all these women could come together, supporting each other through a love of books and writing. So I wrote that piece, and I hesitated to tag you, and then I thought, you know what? I'm gonna go for it, because I want her to know how much this event meant for me. So I tagged you in the post. You saw it, and that was the beginning of our friendship, mentorship. And now here I am to talk about my book. And I can't believe it.

[Zibby Owens]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, I can't believe it. Wow. Well, we've also had some ups and downs with this book getting out into the world, and I know it ended up not being perfect in terms of timing and all these other considerations with our tiny list that we have at Zobe Publishing. But that doesn't mean I'm not a huge, huge fan of the book. I totally am. I am here to support it 100% and so excited to talk to you about it. I also feel like we're friends because I feel like I started getting to know you through that post. Follow you too, read all your substacks, read your memoir. So, you know, it's like we don't even need to interact. We Just read each other's innermost thoughts all the time. And that's the relationship right there.

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[Zibby Owens]

Okay, so to the book, tell listeners about the book itself. When did you read this? Discover yourself.

[Jen Butler]

Yes, yes. So my book, Mom Rediscovered. I call it a coming of middle age memoir, because that's really what it is. So it is my life story because I needed the full arc. But really the crux of the book is about becoming a mom, which is something I wanted my whole life. Struggling with being a stay at home mom, leaving my career to stay home with my kids. And even though that was a choice, it was hard. It was very, very hard. And because of some ups and downs that we faced in our family and lots of stress that was put on me as a stay at home mom, I turned to wine. And it coincided. That time in my life coincided with really the peak of wine mom culture.

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So.

[Jen Butler]

So I fell into what I call gray area drinking, which I can talk about more. And so my story is about how I fell into that, realized that for me, that became a problem. How I got myself out of that, and then what my life has been like since then. And really, when I first stopped drinking, I thought, all my problems are going to be solved. I did this really big, hard thing. I did it with some support from other people, but really on my own. I was so proud of myself. And then I had the womp, womp of realizing that actually stopping drinking only solved that one big problem, which was alcohol. But then it really laid bare all of the other things that I had to deal with in my life that I had been drinking to cover up and to kind of numb myself from. So those things include breaking up with diet culture, figuring out what I wanted my identity to be beyond being a mom, because for me, being a mom was a dream come true. But it wasn't enough. I needed to forge some sort of professional identity and identity beyond motherhood. And so that's really kind of the full arc of the story. And there's really no finish line. I'm still a work in progress. But I did enough living that I realized I had enough of an arc to share my story. So far as I have come into middle age and perimenopause.

[Zibby Owens]

Yeah, lovely. Just when you think you have everything under control. Exactly. Well, the way you share so openly, the way you write, as if we're like talking to each other, just sharing it all. It's so accessible and warm and helpful and inspiring. And it's true. You can get rid of. You can Tackle something. And it just. It doesn't mean that everything is, you know, roses and sunshine all the time.

[Jen Butler]

Yes.

[Zibby Owens]

Wait, go back to what is the gray area of drinking? How do you know if you're in that area? And what do you do about it?

[Jen Butler]

So for me, I define gray area drinking, and it's not my term. It was a term that I came across, and that was extremely helpful because to know that it had a name automatically made me feel like, oh, I must not be the only one that can't go for more than a day or two without drinking or. Or that has a glass of wine and has a really hard time stopping at just one glass. So that's where I was. That's where I got stuck. I would wake up anywhere from groggy to fully hungover at the beginning of the morning, say, forget it, I'm not drinking tonight. I'm gonna take a week off. I'm not gonna drink for a week. And by 5pm like clockwork, I would be reaching for the wine, the open bottle of wine in my fridge every night. And I had a really hard time spending. Stopping at just one glass. It was like once I had that first glass, a switch flipped, and I just had to kind of keep that buzz going. It really was a vicious cycle. It wasn't a paralyzing cycle. I was still completely functional. I was still a good mom. I was getting my kids to school. I was doing the PTA stuff, like doing all the things I needed to do. Cooking the dinners, doing the dishes, doing all the things. But inside I knew that it was a problem. And I call it like a lowercase P problem. It was not a capital P problem. Thank goodness. I didn't need professional help, but I needed to help myself, because I knew it was a problem. And I tried by myself for a long time. I tried to take weeks off, I tried to take a month off, and nothing ever worked. And finally I realized that I needed to reach out for help. And that's how my book starts, is with me, that moment of making myself super vulnerable and reaching out for help. And I did that to a group of women online, anonymous women, most of whom I still. I will never know who they were, but they. I reached out and said, I think I need to do dry January. I have no idea how I'm going to do this. Any advice would be appreciated. And they received me with such kindness and compassion and support, and that made all the difference for me.

[Zibby Owens]

That's amazing. I mean, it is a slippery slope when drinking is so Socially acceptable. And it's something that moms do together. Yeah. Encourage dinner. It's like you can't get away from it. It's like there, everywhere.

[Jen Butler]

Exactly, exactly. You know, wine, wine mom culture is all about, like, wine is a tool you need to survive motherhood. You need this. And I fully bought into that because I was feeling so isolated in my struggles as a mom. I felt so guilty that I wasn't fully content and satisfied being a stay at home mom. And here wine was put on this pedestal, like, this will help you. This will help your anxiety. This will make you feel good. And I went all in.

[Zibby Owens]

I feel like I've had periods of time in similar spots when my twins who are now 18, were like, I don't know, maybe three or four and I had to go on antibiotics for something. And the doctor was like, you can't. I mean, you can't have alcohol for like five days. And I was like, oh, I don't think I can do that.

[Jen Butler]

Yeah, like, how am I going to do that? Yes, yes. And one. You know, I realized it was getting to be a problem when I got sick. Like, I got a bad cold. And it felt like a relief because I felt like, oh, thank God, I'm not gonna wanna drink. And I thought, hmm, well, that's not great if I have this horrible cold. And it's a relief because I'm not gonna be craving alcohol tonight. Like, that's not great. We need to do something about this.

[Zibby Owens]

So diet culture, though, is another piece of the puzzle here. And by the way, there's so much sugar in wine, it's almost like it's all wrapped up in the same dopamine response.

[Jen Butler]

Oh, that dopamine thing. Y center back here. Yep.

[Zibby Owens]

So talk about that and your sort of lifelong experience with diet culture.

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[Jen Butler]

Did I talk too much? Can I just let it go?

[BetterHelp Advertiser]

Take a breath. You're not alone.

[Zibby Owens]

Let's talk about what's going on.

[BetterHelp Advertiser]

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[Jen Butler]

Yeah. So I grew up in the 80s and 90s where skinny was the goal and fat was the enemy. Fat in food and fat on our bodies was the absolute enemy. And so I tried Weight Watchers for the first time when I was 12. My mom was on it. It was something we could do together, and I thought this was normal. And so did she. She didn't know any better either because we just all bought into it. And even then, I remember tracking my points and feeling hungry, and it just. It just felt awful. So I would. I would say, today's a points free day, and then I would eat an entire sleeve of Chips Ahoy cookies. And that was happening when I was 12. So that's kind of how my relationship with diet culture started. Not great. And then it just kind of continued throughout my life as I fought against my body. I never felt thin enough, I never felt small enough. My parents divorced when I was 4. My mom is about 5, 7 and has kind of a normal body like mine. And my dad remarried a very petite woman who's wonderful and I adore her. But the message that I got from that was, oh, you live happily ever after if you're small and beautiful and quiet, not if you're normal size and taking up space. So that was not a great message for me to get. And it's not my parents fault, but that was how I read the situation. And so for my whole life, I just tried to stay small. I tried to exercise to make myself smaller, I tried to eat less to make myself smaller. And go figure, nothing really worked for long because our bodies are meant to take up a certain size and shape in this world, and that is predetermined to a certain extent. And I eventually, during COVID because I think we all got tired of a lot of things during COVID just decided, forget it, I'm done with this. At the start of COVID I was working with a nutritionist, and I had to put that in quotes because she was not so great as you'll read about in the book. And I was really starving myself. And that was just. It was such an awful time because it was the start of the pandemic, and I was starving myself and it was just this horrible cycle. And when I finished working with her, I. Well, the first thing I did was I ate an entire tub of vanilla almond butter. And then I just. And then I felt sick. And then I decided, enough, enough. I'm just going to let my body do what it's going to do and be the size it's going to be. That's not to say I'm always happy with it. That's not to say I don't still get self conscious, especially because I teach fitness classes and I'm up there in my sports bra and my leggings in front of the room. But I have practiced just appreciating my body. Not always loving it, not always even accepting it, but. But just appreciating that it is the size that it is and that I'm healthy, and that's what matters the most.

[Zibby Owens]

It sounds like it all makes sense, but it's so hard to internalize that.

[Jen Butler]

So hard. It's so hard.

[Zibby Owens]

So I know you went through so much to get to that place, but how do we have to hit bottom basically to just say, okay, fine, this is me. I know you got to it through sort of a traumatic way, but so many people are looking for peace with who they are, what they look like. And the sad part is, it doesn't end at a certain age. You don't just all of a sudden, I always assumed, oh, well, I'm sure grandparents don't worry about. No, grandparents worry about you. It doesn't go away unless the horse has never done right, unless you deal with it on a certain time. So not that you're a purported expert in this, but for those who are still struggling a little bit, like, how do they get to where you are?

[Jen Butler]

So to answer the first part of your question, I am a firm believer that you do not have to hit rock bottom in any area of your life. I didn't hit rock bottom with my drinking. I didn't hit rock bottom with breaking up with diet culture. But I got to a point where I had had enough. And at that point, it was really about practice. Practice is one of my favorite words because it just implies that you just have to try and try and try and try and try, and you will never be done. It will get easier, but it will never be necessarily easy, but you just have to keep going. And eventually that initial struggle eases and then it's easier. It's never necessarily easy, but it is easier, for sure. So I just think about that. I think about, you know, I'm practicing on a day when I'm, you know, right before my period, and I'm feeling bloated and disgusting, and I'm up there in the front of the room teaching a fitness class. I think like, oh, I feel gross. And then I think to myself, this is great practice of just showing up in my body exactly the way it is today, and teaching a great fitness class and providing a great experience for these women and having these women see me in this state and just kind of owning it and accepting it for what it is. So to me, it's really about practice. And I try to talk about that in the book a little bit. Just like, you just keep going and you just keep trying, and eventually it does get easier.

[Zibby Owens]

And speaking of keeping going and trying, you've also, along the way now, written a whole book about this. Talk about. How do you go from writing blogs to writing books? How do you tell me that whole thing? And when did you always wanna write a book?

[Jen Butler]

I did. I did. You did too, didn't you? I did. You always wanted to write a book, right?

[Zibby Owens]

I think a lot of readers, if you're a big reader, it's like, you have to imagine. I feel like, well, could I do this?

[Paige Desorbo]

Yeah.

[Jen Butler]

Can I hold my. Will I be holding my book in my hand someday? So I started journaling in sixth grade, and at that, I was a voracious journaler throughout my adolescence and young adulthood. And that was when this dream really began. I always wanted to write a book and thought I kind of leaned toward nonfiction just because I always journaled. And I'm a little afraid of fiction anyway, but I'm gonna get over that. But I always just sort of, like, lean towards that, like, telling my story. I just didn't know what my story was. And when I first quit drinking, I thought, oh, I have my book. It's gonna be quit lit. I'm gonna join the quit lit shelf. That's it. And that's the book I started to write. This was about five years ago. And I got through that book. And some of those scenes are still in my book. Some scenes that I wrote a long time ago. But I thought, what then made me stop that project was, this isn't all I wanna tell. There's more to me than just my story of quitting drinking. Not to not quit lit. Cause I think those books are very important. But for me, it was really my motherhood story that I wanted to tell. And quitting drinking is A huge part of that. But it was that overall arc that I wanted to tell. But I got very nervous because I thought, well, maybe my story isn't special enough to share. And that's when I thought, no, I'm going to make it like a self help book. Like some cool hybrid memoir. Self help. And I sent a DM to Zibby Owens and I said, hey, Zibby, what do you think of this idea? And Zibby said to me, jen, I'm going to be honest with you. Don't try to play the market right from your heart. Everybody has a story to share. Everybody's story is worth sharing. So write your story. And that. Zibby, I am forever grateful for that advice because I'm a rule follower. And it's like that was the permission slip I needed to write my story. And that's what I did, and that's what this book is. So I am so grateful to you for giving me that very precious advice. And I hope everyone who hears this also takes that advice, because you're absolutely right. We all have stories that are worth sharing. It doesn't have to be an outsized arc. It doesn't have to be rock bottom. It just is us.

[Zibby Owens]

I love that. This is like the most feel good podcast ever. Thank you, Jen. Oh, my gosh.

[Jen Butler]

Well, thank you.

[Zibby Owens]

Okay, so now with the book coming out and all of your. I know you've gotten used to. You had practiced sharing from the heart and all that. Is there anything in the book that you're a little nervous to put out there for the first time?

[Jen Butler]

Oh, how. How much time do we have, Zippy? Yes. Although my dad has now read the book, so I'm like, okay, if my dad has read it, anyone can read it. It's fine. But yes, I mean, I really go there. And that was. I worked with two editors in the process of writing this book, and that was the advice that they had was like, you gotta really go there, Jen. Sorry, but you're kind of glossing over this. Nope, you gotta get in there. And so I did. And I share very vulnerably about everything from, like, in high school, I call myself a social springboard because I was the girl that boys kissed so that the girls they actually wanted to kiss would see them kissing a girl and then they'd be like, oh, I wanna kiss that boy now. So that was very vulnerable. You know, I mean, oh, my gosh. I talk about how I lost my virginity. I talk about some sex stuff that is. Was very important for me to share, but also just makes me feel super vulnerable. But at the same time, now that I'm an open book, I mean, literally, I feel like here I am. It's really empowering because it just feels like, yeah, this is my story. I have taken full ownership of this and I have already had advanced readers who I know come up to me and say, you know, thank you so much for sharing this, because, like, another thing I share about is pmdd, which is premenstrual Dysphoric disorder, which is a hormone based mood disorder that I have. And I didn't find out I had it until I was about 41. And I've had women come up to me and say, I think I have that. I gotta go talk to my doctor. Or I have older friends who are now in their 60s who have said to me, I absolutely had that, but I didn't know it and I just had to live with it until I hit menopause. So there are definitely things in here that I kind of can't believe I have in a book that everyone's going to know about. But it has been incredibly empowering for me to be able to do that and just own it. And now to get the response that I'm getting of people saying, oh my gosh, me too, or oh my gosh, I didn't know that was a thing. And knowing that because of what I've written, they no longer feel like they are alone in their struggles makes it all worth it.

[Zibby Owens]

Amazing. I remember those ads on tv. Do you remember those? Like, it's not pms, it's pmdd. And everybody's like, what the heck? I'm like, what is this? Yeah, Anyway, yeah, I didn't know it was a thing either, but I'm glad you tackled it because I don't. Those ads are definitely not on anymore. Anyway. Doesn't matter. Okay, aspirations going forward. I know you're going through a lot of changes in your life now. What next?

[Jen Butler]

Well, I feel like I'm currently living my next memoir, so that is coming, but that is years away. I got to do some more living before that one is ready to be written. However, I had an idea for a fiction project that sprouted in my brain over dinner with my kids this past summer. So a month or two ago, we were all sitting at dinner and we started talking about this idea for a fiction story. And it has now taken root in my gut the way that my memoir did. So I'm like, oh, well, here's the next book. Gotta write it. Gotta write it because it's in there. Now. I've never written fiction before, but I am so fired up about this story, it will not let go. It's like it's keeping me up at night, it's waking me up in the morning, and I'm really excited about it. It is a dual timeline forbidden love story that takes place in a place that has been very important to me in my life, that I talk about a little bit in the book, but I don't talk about the time that I spent there. And I was thinking to myself, like, how have I not written about this stage of my life? And I realized this moment in my life, two summers that I spent in this very special place, was so important to me and so, so formative that it kind of needs its own project. And I realized it's a fiction project. And so I'm super intimidated, super excited, and I'm just. I'm gonna go for it.

[Zibby Owens]

I love it. You're very inspiring. I hope you know that.

[Jen Butler]

Do you feel that? Back at ya.

[Zibby Owens]

Thank you, Jen. Thank you so much. I'm so glad that you wrote this book, that you came to our event, that things have unfolded the way they did, and I feel like this is just the beginning. So I'm so excited to collaborate and see where all of this goes.

[Jen Butler]

Oh, thank you so much. I truly can't thank you enough for your support and for putting me on your most anticipated list for fall. And just every, every moment that you have offered me support and mentorship has meant everything to me. And this has been like the most glorious full circle moment this morning. So I'm so grateful to you, Zibby. Thank you so much.

[Zibby Owens]

Thank you, Jen. Thank you.

[Jen Butler]

Okay.

[Zibby Owens]

Yay. Thanks for coming on.

[Jen Butler]

Okay.

[Zibby Owens]

All right, bye bye.

Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram ibbyoens and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.

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