← Totally Booked with Zibby
Totally Booked with Zibby
Jennifer Pastiloff, PROOF OF LIFE: Let Go, Let Love, and Stop Looking for Permission to Live Your Life
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- [00:00]
Jennifer Pasteloff
The McDonald's Snack Wrap is back.
- [00:02]
Zibby Owens
You brought it back.
- [00:04]
Jennifer Pasteloff
Ranch Snack Wrap? Spicy Snack Wrap. You broke the Internet for a snack? Snack Wrap is back.
- [00:15]
Zibby Owens
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- [03:56]
Jennifer Pasteloff
Oh, thank you. It feels so. Last night when you said you just finished it, I got this wave of emotion and it's been, it's been a long time, this book, and so much has happened in my life and you're the first person besides my editor, now that's Reddit. And I got this like, was I holding my breath? I don't know. But a wave of emotion. I was like, thank you, thank you, thank you.
- [04:23]
Zibby Owens
I really, really enjoyed it for so many reasons and it literally has led me to look at the world a little bit differently, which is what the best books do, right?
- [04:36]
Jennifer Pasteloff
Yeah. You just gave me like a high. I mean, I'm not drinking anymore, so I'm like, yeah, because that's the point. The whole idea of like, you know, my friend Emily McDowell gave me the best blurb. She said, it's weird in the best possible way. It's self help, but memoir. And then there's a line about shitting ourselves and that's how our brains work. And that's what I love about it, is it's so like, like that you look at the world a little different because it's not just one way, you know?
- [05:09]
Zibby Owens
So you came at writing this book as someone who already was a successful author, teaching workshops and developing this guru status for helping.
- [05:20]
Jennifer Pasteloff
Rene Denfeld calls me the anti guru and I prefer that.
- [05:24]
Zibby Owens
Okay. The anti guru. I love Rene Denfeld and people. You help people get the best out of life by listening to themselves and not following rules and doing what. There's their true calling. I'm doing a lot of bad things. Synopsis. Synopsis. Summarizing. That's the word. Oh, my gosh. Neither of us have slept, by the way, but we're still going to do a great job on this podcast.
- [05:46]
Jennifer Pasteloff
Okay, well. Well, two things. One, I'm deaf. You know, I read lips and you talk super fast, so, like, slow it down. The other thing is, I think you said about doing love. And I will say you do love all the time. And I mean, I clock that I get all your stuff, I read it, and. And it's. And if your generosity is moving and I'm not just talking about money. Sure, that too. But it really is. And that's doing love. It doesn't have to be financial. It's doing love. You know, that's another thing. You could look at it a different way. Look at it anyway. And so I think that's what you said before you. You went into Speedy Speederton.
- [06:27]
Zibby Owens
I will slow down. I also appreciated you writing about being deaf, developing that. Can you actually go back and when did that happen? You said something started to happen when you were 8 years old.
- [06:40]
Jennifer Pasteloff
Yeah. It's really interesting because it's been progressive and the whole idea of shame loss, which is I will not hide in shame. I was ashamed for so long. And I've had people ask, well, why, you know, you're hearing. But shame is not logical. Shame is not logical. And I was. I already, due to my childhood trauma, I had a belief about myself that I was bad and I was broken and I was ashamed, so I hid it. And so it really wasn't until my early twenties when I was in acting class that I was like, oh, my God, I can't hear. You know, and that's why I'm always in the front row. So, you know, it got progressively worse. I will say I've always had tinnitus. So I don't just have hearing loss. I have tinnitus and both of them. And honestly, the tinnitus is probably worse for every reason you'd think, because it's maddening. And when I wear my hearing aids, I can't. Not if I don't wear them. I don't hear anything. Fully deaf. But when I wear my hearing aids, it minimizes the tinnitus because it makes everything else louder. So even if I'm by myself painting or Whatever. I wear them because it's maddening. So I don't know when it started, but when I look back, I'm like, oh, right, right. I was always, like, being told she doesn't pay attention. You know, the classic things you hear. But progressively it got worse as I got older. And then like anything in life, you know, yes, I've always had it. And I was in denial, and it wasn't this bad, but I navigated it and I learned to live with it. And I mean, I think, you know, this. It's scary and amazing that we learn to live with anything. And so I just got by. When I finally got hearing aids, it was really emotional because I thought, oh, my God, how much have I been missing? You know? But, yeah, I don't know exactly when I started. And my sister wears hearing aids, and my dad's sister is deaf, as opposed. And my dad died when he was 38, so who knows? But there's definitely some kind of, you know, genetic component. But it's. It's getting worse. And right now, in fact, my hearing aids broke, so I'm wearing my backup pair, which are just one step up from nothing. And it's been. I think that's been adding to this moment. I've been. I was telling you, I've been having a lot of anxiety and depression because it is so hard. And my son is normally so compassionate. He's getting so frustrated because he's not. It's like another level. It's. I might as well not be wearing them. And he does this thing where he goes, he's eight. Like, he's taking a breath. And I'm like, baby, I know what's irritating. You know what's more irritating for me? So I'll get my other paraffix. That work a lot better. But, yeah, it's been a long time and just gets worse, which terrifies me. So I try not to think about that.
- [09:42]
Zibby Owens
So I thought I'd just bring it up because you're trying to avoid it. I might as well just make you have to go down that road right away.
- [09:49]
Jennifer Pasteloff
I'm kidding. But see that? Shame, loss. First of all, right now, you know, I have the computer turned up. I'm in silence. It's easier. And usually technology is easier because it streams into my hearing aids on the computer. They haven't figured. Just the phone. No. Talking about it actually is good if I sat and talked about it in a different kind of way, like all about the fear and what's going to happen and, oh, my God, what's going to happen when I can't hear anymore and I won't hear? You know, that's different. This is not that at all. And that's what I really want to get away from, actually, is avoiding or denying talking about things because then that won't make them so. And a big part of my book is about that, you know, La la la. I don't see it. Therefore it doesn't exist.
- [10:36]
Zibby Owens
Jen, can I read one of the poems that you have in the book?
- [10:40]
Jennifer Pasteloff
Yeah. Yeah.
- [10:41]
Zibby Owens
Okay. I mean, there were a lot of favorites, but this one was so good. Changing Lanes.
- [10:48]
Jennifer Pasteloff
Okay.
- [10:48]
Zibby Owens
So good. We'll believe anything. How else could we carry on unless we believed that we had no choice? How could we keep driving to a job that sucked our soul unless we believed we didn't have one so all that sucking was in vain. How could we have accepted at least we're not as miserable as most as a reason to stay Unless we believed that it was our bar and no matter how low it was set, we didn't get to raise it. We tolerate long lines at places we do not want to be with a person we no longer love by remembering it's our bar to bear and by bearing it. How could we have a third date with someone who asks no questions about us except by believing next time they'll ask what I like and what I want. When years pass with no change at all we have to say it used to be different or we'd never forgive ourselves for what we gave up to feel less lonely what we gave up was everything and there we were still so lonely it hurt. We eat our own hunger, swallow any urge to swerve all to remain in the right lane until we notice it's no longer true that we'll believe anything we are not in the right lane after all all this time we thought we were when there were never any lanes to begin with.
- [12:00]
Jennifer Pasteloff
That made me cry hearing you read it. It's really. It's quite a thing, you know, hearing someone else read a word. And that one in particular, it's so good.
- [12:09]
Zibby Owens
The whole book. Oh, I'm sorry to make you cry. The book.
- [12:12]
Jennifer Pasteloff
No, no, it's all zippy. Okay, you owe me five dollars. Sorry. Dude. I have a thing called the Sorry bank, which is you pay even $5 every time you say you're sorry. And then you can, like donate it or whatever, but the idea a have a sense of humor about it. But to either break your sorry habit, your unnecessary sorry, or break your bank and look Art of apology is great, but I think we apologize way too much. No, you don't understand. Crying is a really recent. Only two years ago from when I was eight and feeling for me, I was like, emotionally constipated. So now sometimes I get nervous because I'm still so not used to it. It's such a joy for me to be able to feel and then. But having someone else read your words and it's like, I need right now. I'm. You know, this whole pre pub part is so. Is bringing up so much demons and unworthiness and, And. And hearing that, it was like, oh, right, there aren't any lanes to begin with because it's a feeling like, oh, I've got to get in the right lane and. And I have to. You know, there's all this pressure right now and I'm human, so I'm falling back in the same bs and then hearing you read that just like, hey, it's just. It's so. It's such a thing to hear someone else read your words. It really is. Thank you. You're welcome.
- [13:34]
Zibby Owens
Well, that's what I meant by rethinking. Right. If there are no lanes and there's no measure of success or direction, and it's just the world is your oyster.
- [13:46]
Jennifer Pasteloff
The itg, the imaginary Time Gods.
- [13:48]
Zibby Owens
Yes, I thought of that a lot. All of your acronyms. You have a whole dictionary of your inspiring content.
- [13:55]
Jennifer Pasteloff
I thought that was so cute. I was so proud of myself for the glossary. And brag. I'm gonna brag because if you get an Anne Lamont quote, you fucking brag. But you put it on the COVID But Ann said something about my humor, and I literally. I was like, this is a gift from the heavens because it is self help, but I have a sense of humor, and that is a nod to the reader that it's not so precious. And the glossary. And so it just gives it a lightness, which I think we desperately need.
- [14:29]
Zibby Owens
Well, the lightness also comes because you tell us with all the joy and sorrow and as if we're just chatting, you know, over coffee or something, about all of the hard things in life and all of the new happy things you tell us about leaving your husband, falling in love, quote, unquote, too quickly.
- [14:52]
Jennifer Pasteloff
Right.
- [14:53]
Zibby Owens
Especially for some friends of yours. You talk about how it affects your son, but how it affects your soul. And it's just really amazing. Your whole theory is it's not. It's never too late, like, take charge of your life.
- [15:08]
Jennifer Pasteloff
I know. Why is it so especially as women and I just, I don't know if this video is going to be shared or just you and I, but I just want to show you the paint all over me. Because, you know, I started painting and that's one of the reasons I was up late, you know, oops, I forgot to say, but there's this pain all over me right now. Yeah, you know, it's never too late. And the whole idea of daily practices. And then I was like, why am I lying? Daily ish. Daily ish practices is like, I'll think I got something. I'm like, yeah, it's never too late. And then I wake up the next day and I'm like, it's too late. You know, it's not a one and done. Being a human being sometimes, you know, certain things are. Every day we need to remind ourselves how do I stay in alignment with what I know is true? How do I, you know, remember that I do get to be happy? And so it's like every day and so yet and still I still catch myself with those same imaginary time gods lies in my head and whatever works to help us remember because they are made up. They are made up. You know, I was Harley at 41 and so he's about to be nine and I swear some of my friends are like, I'm about to be a grandma. I basically have a toddler, you know, and it's just. It is what it is. It's like it's our life. And, and look, if, if we really all started believing in this, I think like every so many billion dollar industries would. Would collapse because they all are built upon us. Feeling like we're behind or we're old or we're ugly or, or we're, you know, we need something to make us better. But it's true. We make up our own life.
- [16:57]
Zibby Owens
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- [21:50]
Jennifer Pasteloff
Synchronicity. Zeb, Zeb, can I. I mean, I'm a nicknaming. Okay. Cause nicknaming for me isn't endearing. It's like my. One of my love languages. And I realize sometimes people are like, oh, hell no, it's Steven, not Steve. So I find that that kind of synchronicity, we have to pay such close attention. It's everywhere. But stuff like you're talking about, like having that moment of like, oh, I should get up. And then opening and seeing that in me. That's a sign right there. Like, if you don' get full body chills, you know, you pay attention to that. I do. I'm always like, oh, synchronicity. It's magic, right?
- [22:25]
Zibby Owens
Yep.
- [22:27]
Jennifer Pasteloff
But the reason I was laying there with Charlie and I was actually messaging with. I've become friends with Josh Brolin, who, by the way, yes, he's a movie star, but his book, his memoir, I don't know if you've ever had him on. I don't think so. I know you haven't actually, because I know the pods he did, but his book is so beautiful and literary and weird. Weird in structure. It's not a celebrity memoir. Anyway, so we've become friends and we were messaging and he's in Italy working on a movie. And he was talking about one of the reasons I love going there so Much too, is like, no one talks about what you do. You're just a human being, you know? And I was telling him about, you know, the stress of this period, which he remembers, because even being a celebrity, there's still that. And we were talking about, like, what really matters. And I was like, yeah, as I'm texting you, my son was laying next to me and in his sleep. And Charlie, in his sleep came over and put his head on my chest. And I was like. And I made that video. Honestly, I make those videos because I look back on them all the time, even a couple months later, and I am like, thank you, thank you, thank you. Because, look, my dad died when I was eight. I got nothing. I got nothing. And if there's some little capsule, something that I know I can't really hold on to that moment per se, but some sort of tangible thing, it's everything.
- [23:58]
Zibby Owens
Well, it's the reminder that we need in our busy lives that this is what makes meaning.
- [24:05]
Jennifer Pasteloff
That's what I keep coming back to during this period. It's like, oh, priest styles are the most important. It's on the author. And like, oh, I'm not being. And I'm like, wait a minute. What matters? What matters. And I. And I'll pause. Whether it sounds like corny. I will pause. I'll take a breath, and I will take stock. And then I'll go, am I living in alignment with what I say? That's the. That for me is everything. Am I living in alignment with who I say I am, who I say I am with what I say matters? And if not, check in and now what?
- [24:42]
Zibby Owens
So true. And I think it's so easy to stay on your path. Right. That is the de facto to rationalize everything away and say, well, it's fine. Like, this is fine. Everything's not supposed to be perfect. And yet if we don't make the changes we need to make. I mean, I'm speaking in hyperbole, but I feel like all your specific examples lead to this.
- [25:06]
Jennifer Pasteloff
Absolutely. And everybody has different ways of being like, I don't. You know, I've known you for a long time, but we've never met. Met. But, like, if I would guess, and we do this all the time without realizing we make up stories. If I would guess, I'd be like, you're pretty. A type. Maybe, maybe not. I'm like, Z, like, zebra. No joke. So when you're like, everything has to be. I was like, yeah. Like, I couldn't be more opposite. I am. I sent Shit out. I swear my book will have typos. And I'm notorious. I am like, it's fine. I'm the opposite of a perfectionist, which is, it's just the same thing, just a different spectrum. But yeah, like the whole thing with everything has to be perfect. I'm quite the opposite. But it's like, it's fine. Nothing has to be perfect. We'll be like, double check it. Nah. You know, but it's, it really is the same thing because for me it's a form of sabotage. Just the same way that trying to be perfect is. Both are, they're somewhere in the middle, I think let's meet in the middle of the Alphabet. And that would be like now that would be a perfect human. Yes.
- [26:15]
Zibby Owens
Like K or L or something like that.
- [26:18]
Jennifer Pasteloff
Yeah.
- [26:21]
Zibby Owens
I feel like I haven't done a perfect job encapsulating the power of this book because emotionally it is so resonant for me. And there were like 8 million things that I dog eared and was like, yes this and yes that. And I hope that people listening know that anyone will find something very motivating in this book, whether it's getting from type Z to type Y or you know, changing something big or something small. But I feel like the exercises are one thing, but your own story and the way that you shared it and even, even how you did it, like throughout every chapter, like it wasn't just like, here's my story, now go enjoy my self help book. That every message was from you and from your heart. Like that is the best way to tell a story. So thank you.
- [27:08]
Jennifer Pasteloff
Well, I couldn't. That's the only way. And also like, I would have rather like poke myself in the eyeball with 17 pencils than ever write a self help book. So the fact that I did is like, oh yeah, but I'm gonna do it my way. And there's gonna be poems and memoir ish and footnotes. And I did it and I did it my way. And you know, and I'm with a big five publisher and they were behind me and it doesn't get better than that. And it's a reminder that no, not everyone's going to write a book or get a book deal or what have you, but in our own life we do get to do it our way. I mean, barring most things like following the law and all that, but we get to do it our way. So yeah, the self help part is because I do think, I feel it's a, it's a collaborative journey. Like, how you're feeling is exactly how I wanted a reader to feel.
- [27:59]
Zibby Owens
Perfect. Well, mission accomplished. Jen, thank you so much for coming on despite lack of sleep and everything else for us both. Thank you.
- [28:07]
Jennifer Pasteloff
Thank you so much for traveling with my overweight sleeping like a teenager and.
- [28:11]
Zibby Owens
Just different time zones. We're all good. And I'm really excited to recommend the book and I know so many people who specifically I want to give it.
- [28:20]
Jennifer Pasteloff
To you right away.
- [28:20]
Zibby Owens
And that's like the best feeling. So anyway, thank you. Congratulations.
- [28:24]
Jennifer Pasteloff
Appreciate you. This is my first thing actually talking about it, so what you've given me is such a gift, Zibby, I really, really thank you. And then if you could lend me that coat and the glasses, then we'll be good.
- [28:39]
Zibby Owens
Okay, sure. Yeah. I'll take your paintings and we can swap lives, you know.
- [28:46]
Jennifer Pasteloff
Okay.
- [28:46]
Zibby Owens
I hope to see you soon. To be continued.
- [28:49]
Jennifer Pasteloff
Bye. Okay, bye.
- [28:51]
Zibby Owens
Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have Time to read Books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram, ibbeowens and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books Ready to elevate your everyday Quince has the luxe Staples Insider swear by minus the markup. From 100% European linen styles and 14 karat gold jewelry to gorgeous leather bags and elevated home finds, Quince has it all. And by partnering directly with top artisans and ethical factories, Quince delivers premium quality at half the cost of similar brands. Discover everyday luxury without the markup at quints. Go to quince.com styleupgrade for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com styleupgrade I'm gonna put you on, nephew.
- [29:49]
Jennifer Pasteloff
All right, unc. Welcome to McDonald's.
- [29:51]
Zibby Owens
Can I take your order, miss? I've been hitting up McDonald's for years.
- [29:54]
Jennifer Pasteloff
Now it's back. We need snack wraps. What's a snack wrap?
- [29:58]
Zibby Owens
It's the return of something great. Snack Rap is back.
- [30:05]
Jennifer Pasteloff
Acast powers the world's best podcasts.
- [30:09]
Zibby Owens
Here's a show that we recommend. Love music. We do, too. Well, if you ever feel like it's hard to keep up though, don't worry.
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Jennifer Pasteloff
We're here to help.
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Zibby Owens
Monday through Friday, Daily Music Headlines gets you the top happenings in music from chart toppers, news releases, concert announcements and more all in less than five minutes. Don't miss out. Get the show at Daily Music Headlines.com.
- [30:37]
Jennifer Pasteloff
Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.