Jennifer Trevelyan, A BEAUTIFUL FAMILY: A Novel

Summary

Podcast Summary: Totally Booked with Zibby – Episode Featuring Jennifer Chavalyan and A Beautiful Family

Introduction

In this engaging episode of Totally Booked with Zibby, host Zibby Owens welcomes Jennifer Chavalyan, the author of the novel A Beautiful Family. Released on August 14, 2025, this episode delves deep into Jennifer's literary journey, the themes of her novel, and her insights into character development and the grieving process.

About the Book: A Beautiful Family

Jennifer Chavalyan provides a compelling overview of her novel, setting the stage for the discussion. A Beautiful Family is a coming-of-age mystery set in 1985 on the Kapiti Coast of New Zealand. The story revolves around a young girl named Alex who, during a family holiday, befriends a boy on the beach. Together, they embark on solving a local mystery. Amidst their adventure, Alex observes unsettling changes within her family—her mother's strange behavior, her sister's questionable associations, and the eerie presence of a man next door who seems to be watching them closely.

Jennifer Chavalyan [03:40]: "A Beautiful Family is set in 1985 on the Kapiti coast of New Zealand and it's a sort of coming of age mystery novel about a little girl who goes away on a holiday with her family and she befriends a boy on the beach and they decide to try and solve a local mystery."

Character Development and Themes

Zibby Owens commends Jennifer on her ability to evoke fear and tension, particularly through the character of the mysterious neighbor. Jennifer acknowledges the effectiveness of this portrayal.

Zibby Owens [04:21]: "Yeah, he creeps me out."

Jennifer Chavalyan [04:24]: "Yeah, he's supposed to creep you out. That's good."

The conversation shifts to the nostalgic elements of the 1980s, with both hosts reminiscing about their childhood experiences, such as the significance of Walkmans and the absence of social media, which made music and books essential escapes for children during that era.

Zibby Owens [04:49]: "And also I was reading the book and thinking, wait a minute, I was 10 years old in 1986... and knowing how it felt when you Lost the Walkman and just all of that dependence on music at that time, especially because there was no social media."

Jennifer reflects on her own memories, emphasizing the authenticity they bring to her writing.

Jennifer Chavalyan [05:10]: "I was 10 in 1985, and my Walkman was my world... It was very easy to remember what that was like and sort of see it into my memory."

The discussion further explores sibling dynamics, particularly focusing on Alex's relationship with her older sister and the inherent tensions that arise as children grow and change.

Zibby Owens [07:03]: "Especially the older sister part, too, where you're growing up... you reflect so beautifully the interior life of your main character."

Jennifer Chavalyan [06:11]: "I think Alex worries a lot and wants to protect, but at the same time, they're driving each other crazy because it's just that time in life where your sibling drives and she doesn't want to get in trouble herself."

Exploring Grief and Emotional Depth

A pivotal moment in the conversation centers around the portrayal of grief in the novel. Zibby highlights a scene where Alex interacts with a grieving mother, capturing the subtle yet profound emotional expressions without overt exposition.

Zibby Owens [08:30]: "So you don't have to say all of this, but in the way you describe the emotions flashing over her face, you tell the whole story with just the way she looks."

Jennifer draws from her personal experiences as a mother to authentically depict grief, ensuring the narrative remains sensitive and genuine.

Jennifer Chavalyan [09:21]: "It's not that hard to imagine, sadly, something awful like that... I just try and get right into the scene and get into both characters and imagine it as I'm writing. And hopefully that was authentic."

She shares a poignant personal anecdote that influenced her portrayal of grief, emphasizing the realism she strives for in her characters' emotions.

Author's Journey: From Aspiration to Publication

Zibby delves into Jennifer's path to becoming an author, uncovering the challenges and triumphs she experienced along the way. Jennifer candidly discusses her initial struggles with writing, her disciplined approach to crafting her first drafts, and the pivotal moment when she decided to pursue a Master’s in Creative Writing.

Jennifer Chavalyan [18:01]: "I always did want to write... when I was about 39, I realized if I didn't knuckle down and do something, this was not going to happen."

Jennifer shares the sacrifices and unwavering commitment that fueled her writing journey, highlighting the importance of perseverance and continuous improvement.

Jennifer Chavalyan [21:02]: "I am trying to challenge myself. I'm not trying to write A Beautiful Family again. So I'm trying new things that scare me a little bit. And it's exciting."

Advice to Aspiring Authors

In a heartfelt segment, Jennifer offers invaluable advice to budding writers. She stresses the importance of being "ruthless" with one's writing time, a term she credits to renowned author Elizabeth Strout.

Jennifer Chavalyan [24:55]: "First of all, I do think it's really important that you're ruthless with your writing time... Elizabeth Strout said that you have to be ruthless."

She encourages writers to passionately connect with their stories, comparing the first draft to having a secret crush—something fragile yet irresistible.

Jennifer Chavalyan [25:13]: "I feel like a first draft especially should feel like when you have a crush on someone... It must feel that sort of obsessive, like, I'm so fascinated with this, I can't let it go."

Jennifer emphasizes dedication and the necessity of carving out dedicated time to nurture one's craft, ensuring that external distractions do not hinder the creative process.

Conclusion

The episode culminates with Jennifer expressing her hopes for readers to form lasting connections with her characters and to engage deeply with the unresolved elements of the story. Zibby and Jennifer share personal reflections on memory and the subjective nature of experiences, reinforcing the novel's themes of memory and perception.

Jennifer Chavalyan [16:19]: "I want the book to stay in your mind when you put it down... to leave a few things to the imagination so that you can mull it over and think, well, maybe they did this, maybe they did that."

Zibby relates this to her own family memories, underscoring the universal quest to understand and recall personal histories accurately.

Zibby Owens [17:22]: "My dad, my brother, and I all had this experience in a car where I could swear I was driving... now we'll never know."

Final Thoughts

This episode of Totally Booked with Zibby offers a profound exploration of Jennifer Chavalyan's A Beautiful Family, shedding light on the intricate crafting of a mystery novel that intertwines personal growth, familial tensions, and the haunting presence of grief. Jennifer's candid discussions provide aspiring authors with both inspiration and practical advice, making this episode a must-listen for anyone passionate about writing and storytelling.

Notable Quotes:

• Jennifer Chavalyan [03:40]: "A Beautiful Family is set in 1985 on the Kapiti coast of New Zealand and it's a sort of coming of age mystery novel..."

• Zibby Owens [04:21]: "Yeah, he creeps me out."

• Jennifer Chavalyan [09:21]: "I just try and get right into the scene and get into both characters and imagine it as I'm writing."

• Jennifer Chavalyan [24:55]: "First of all, I do think it's really important that you're ruthless with your writing time."

• Jennifer Chavalyan [16:19]: "I want the book to stay in your mind when you put it down."

Transcript

[Freddy]

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[Zibby Owens]

Yes.

[Capital One Representative]

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[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Everything.

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[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Yes, Chef.

[Capital One Representative]

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[Zibby Owens]

Today's episode has been sponsored by Digipod. As someone who's passionate about books and authors, I'm always excited to share resources that can help bring your stories to life. That's why I am thrilled to tell you about Digipod, a print on demand company that truly understands what authors need to make make that happen. Here's what I love about Digipot. They don't just print your books and send you on your way. Their team holds your hand throughout the entire process with incredible customer service. They deliver professional grade printing quality, consistently beat their competitors turnaround times, and they can handle rush orders. They simplify the whole printing process and make it incredibly easy. To achieve your vision for your books, head over to digipod. Zibby that's-I g g y p o d.com Zibbee set up a free 15 minute printing consultation and get 10% off your first print order. You'll talk with their experts who will walk you through exactly how to set up your print job and answer all your questions. And by the way, I've seen the books and they are amazing looking. If you've been thinking about printing your book, this is the support you want. Again, that's digipod.com zibby for your free consultation. Hi, this is Zibby Owens. And you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. And as a bookstore owner, publisher, author, and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to stay in the know, get insider insights and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbymedia.com and follow me on Instagram ibbeowensk. Jennifer Chavalyan is the author of A Beautiful Family, a novel. With a background in photography and children's publishing, Jennifer is now a full time writer living in Wellington, New Zealand with her husband, son, daughter, dog and cat. When not at her writing desk, Jennifer can be found in the garden. Welcome Jennifer. Thank you so much for coming on to talk about A Beautiful Family, a novel. Congratulations.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

[Zibby Owens]

It's my pleasure. Welcome from New Zealand. Why don't you tell listeners what A Beautiful Family is about?

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

A Beautiful Family is set in 1985 on the Kapiti coast of New Zealand and it's a sort of coming of age mystery novel about a little girl who goes away on a holiday with her family and she befriends a boy on the beach and they decide to try and solve a local mystery. But in the meantime, things are happening in her family that are making her very uncomfortable. Her mother's behaving strangely, her sister hooked up with some people that she's not sure are very trustworthy. And meanwhile there is a man staying in the house next door who's watching everything that they do and she's the only one who seems to be aware of him.

[Zibby Owens]

Yeah, he creeps me out.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Yeah, he's supposed to creep you out. That's good.

[Zibby Owens]

Okay, good. Yeah, there were actually many times and I don't do well with like being scared, but there were a few times where, particularly when, when they scratched away and could see the name underneath, I was like, oh my, I'm not giving anything away, but I was like, I can't.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Oh my gosh. So great. That's great to hear.

[Zibby Owens]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Yeah.

[Zibby Owens]

So. And also I was reading the book and thinking, wait a minute, I was 10 years old in 1986, like this could have been me with my Walkman and the whole thing and knowing how it felt when you Lost the Walkman and just all of that dependence on music at that time, especially because there was no social media. There was no other escape. Music and books, right? That was like it.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Music and books. Yeah. No. I was 10 in 1985, and my Walkman was my world. And I had one tape cassette, and it was actually Billy Joel. I think it was an innocent man. And my sister had her tape cassette and. Which was Wham. And we were just going around in our own little worlds all the time. Yeah. It was very easy to remember what that was like and sort of see it into my memory. Yes.

[Zibby Owens]

Especially the older sister part, too, where you're growing up, but then you're seeing someone close to you grow up and not sure that you're supposed to be following those exact same tracks. The whole scene with the mascara and hiding it under the bed and then sort of like throwing it out the window and all that and not knowing. I mean, you reflect so beautifully the interior life of your main character. And how she's like, I don't want to rat my sister out for the many things that her sister does. And yet she knows it's wrong. So how do you handle it when you don't necessarily have the words? Yes, you don't want to get in trouble yourself.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

No, thank you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my sisters were quite well behaved, but I still worried about them a lot. And I think maybe the youngest that does fall on the youngest a little bit. You're sort of observing everybody and you know everyone's secrets because you're a little bit invisible. People forget you're there. So I think Alex worries a lot and wants to protect, but at the same time, well, they're driving each other crazy because it's just that time in life where your sibling drives and she doesn't want to get in trouble herself. So, as you say. Yeah, there's a lot of tension there for poor little Alex.

[Zibby Owens]

And Alex also is at the stage of her life. And you wrote about this in such a unique way where you said she used to be able to smile and everyone would smile back at her because she was so cute. And she's clearly reached the point in her life where she smiles and people don't smile back at her in the same way anymore.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

I distinctly remember that moment where I wasn't that cute little girl anymore. Yeah. If you are the youngest and you are. Everyone thinks you're cute. And then you sort of trade on that for a little while. And then I can remember that going away and you're Entering this different phase. And, yeah, you sort of want to hold onto it. At the same time, you're excited to grow up and. And be a bit more independent. How.

[Zibby Owens]

How many sisters do you have and what's your age difference?

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

I have two older sisters, and the eldest is seven years older than me, and the middle is four years older. And I think there was. There was a time when the middle sister and me were really tight and people would mistake us for twins because I was quite. And then all of a sudden, and we were buddies, you know, and we would get really excited on Christmas morning and all that kind of normal stuff. And then all of a sudden, we weren't buddies anymore. And she was going off. And I remember because we stayed in a beach house very similar to the one I described. She was going off every day on her bike with her friends, and here's a little bit of grief, like, oh, what happened to that? And I was still the little kid that was excited about Christmas and swimming and all these sort of, you know, really innocent things. So, yeah, definitely some experience there.

[Zibby Owens]

I feel like I'm having the same grief now with my youngest of four, who is, like, wanting to go with his friends all the time. And I'm like, I know this is developmentally appropriate, but, like, can't we just.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Settle.

[Zibby Owens]

The passage of time? Well, you also wrote so beautifully about what grief looks like when you have Alex interact with the mother of the child, Catherine, who's been lost in the field, and what it looks like when she sees Alix, as a girl about the same age, realizes it's not her daughter. You don't even have to say all of this, but in the way that you describe the emotions flashing over her face, you tell the whole story with just the way she looks and the way she has to lean back and sort of catch herself and then, you know, gear herself up to say hello. Tell me about that. And being familiar enough with the way grief looks.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Oh, gosh, I don't know. I'm a mum, obviously. It's not that hard to imagine, sadly, something awful like that. I just thought, you know, first of all, I don't think you could leave that place. I don't think you could go to a place with child and then leave without them. It'd be just horrendous. I actually had the experience this year. We took our. Our son down to Otago where he's going to university. And the worst thing was traveling back up the country without him having gone down there with. So I tried to imagine that really? And I didn't want. I wanted to be. To have a really light touch with that grieving mother because I didn't want the novel to become too sort of gothic and, you know, with this ghostly woman drifting around. But I needed to show. Yeah, obviously that she's. She's remained in that place. She's not letting it go. Yeah. I just. I just try and get right into the scene and get into both characters and imagine it as I'm writing. And hopefully that was. That sounded. That was authentic, which is great.

[Zibby Owens]

And you also, from the daughter's point of view, show us about. Without giving things away, you know, that lust doesn't necessarily go away when you get older and that relationships are not always static. Talk a little bit about that and. And even a childhood understanding or not.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Do you mean like the parents relationship? Yeah. I think that the mother in the novel is a little bored. I think she's a little unfulfilled in the novel. She's writing a novel. And I think. I think I was sort of imagining what my life might have been like if I hadn't had some. Some sort of creative release, you know, because my writing is so important to me. And I. And I just imagine she's. She's had these girls and now they're growing up and she's watching them go away as they do. And I think actually, you know, her marriage is okay. I don't think it's a terrible marriage. And I think he's a lovely man in many ways, but I think she's a little unfulfilled. And she's struggling away with this book, which you probably know and I know can be awful. And this other person, without giving away too much, is a bit glamorous and just a bit more sophisticated. Comes from a slightly different world. New Zealand was in 1985 quite well, a very quiet little place. You know, a little bit backward in some ways. And he's come from a different place. And it's quite sophisticated and glamorous. And I think, honestly, she's just sort of reaching around for something. What's the next thing in my life going to be? That was how I saw her, rather than it being a terrible marriage at the start of the novel. Yeah.

[Zibby Owens]

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[Freddy]

Ready to order?

[Zibby Owens]

Yes.

[Capital One Representative]

We're earning unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with a Capital One Saver card. So let's just get one of everything.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Everything.

[Chef]

Fire everything. The Capital One Saver card is at table 27, and they're earning unlimited 3% cash back.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Yes, Chef.

[Capital One Representative]

This is so nice.

[Chef]

Had a feeling you'd want 3% cash back on dessert.

[Capital One Representative]

Ooh, tiramisu.

[Chef]

Earn unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with the Capital One Saver card. Capital One what's in your wallet?

[Freddy]

Terms apply. See capital1.com for details.

[Zibby Owens]

So what do you want readers to take away from this what do you want readers to take away from Alex's summer and this whole mystery and all of it, like, the whole. What's the goal?

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Interesting. Yeah, I think. I think whenever I write a story, I want the characters to become real to you and become people that you care about and that you take away with you and think about later. And I think that's what happens when I read a book that I love, and that character stays with me, you know, hopefully forever. That's what you're aiming for. I want the book to stay in your mind when you put it down. I prefer not to tie things up too neatly. You might have noticed. Just to leave.

[Zibby Owens]

Yes. Thank you.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Just not in a frustrating way, but just to leave a few things to the imagination so that you can mull it over and think, well, maybe they did this, maybe they did that. I sort of imagine that the summer becomes a kind of capel in Alex's memory. And I don't know about you, but when I look back on my memories, sometimes I can't tell what was true and what wasn't. And you sort of have to ask people in your family, did that happen?

[Zibby Owens]

Or.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Yeah. And I kind of wanted to leave the reader with that feeling of, like, wow, what just happened? And then I love the idea of people going to their book group and arguing about that, you know, into the evening, you know, or maybe they did this. No, I think this happened. So I was sort of trying to create that. I think the reader completes the story, and I think that the family will carry on and maybe kind of sweep the summer under the rug a little bit. But it will. Alex will never forget it, and she will think, did that happen the way I think it happened?

[Zibby Owens]

Interesting. Yeah. My dad, my brother, and I all had this experience in a car where I could swear I was Driving. My brother could swear he was driving. And my dad doesn't remember. And I'm like, now we'll never know. And it's so exciting because I am.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

I love that stuff.

[Zibby Owens]

You're all sure of our memories of it, so.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Yes, we are. Yeah. And sometimes there's maybe just a photograph, and that is your entire memory of that holiday is this one photograph, and you can't place anything else. I find all of that sort of stuff fascinating. Yeah.

[Zibby Owens]

Yeah. So tell me how you became an author.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Oh, gosh. So I always did want to write, but I didn't. I didn't study. I didn't study. I didn't do any undergraduate creative writing papers. I did an English literature degree, and then I worked in various jobs. I got married and had children and we traveled. And the writing was always just something I really wanted to do, but I didn't really know what I wanted to say. I didn't think I had anything to say. And then when I was about 39, I realized if I didn't knuckle down and do something, this was not going to happen. And I said to my husband, I'm going to go out every morning before work and write and I'm going to leave you with kids.

[Zibby Owens]

How did that go over?

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

He was wonderful, actually. Yeah. He agreed to do that. And off I went. And I was very ruthless about it. So every day I was at the cafe at 7, and then work was 8:30, so I had an hour and a half. And I did that for about 10 years and wrote a few books that went into a drawer because I knew they weren't good enough. But I was just teaching myself how to do it. And I actually, in that period, wrote A Beautiful Family and put it in the drawer. And then I had the opportunity to take a year away from work and I did an MA in Creative Writing. And at the end of that, I thought. I thought back over all of the work I'd done and I felt that a Beautiful Family was the best thing I had done. So I pulled it out of the drawer and I sent it to some agents. And one of them was Felicity Blunt, and she picked it up.

[Zibby Owens]

Do you wish you had sent it originally?

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

I've been thinking about that. I. I mean, yes, I suppose so. It was. It was a bit of a shame that it sat there for two kids. But at the same time, the MA that I did do in that period did prepare me quite well for the editing process. I may not have felt ready for that. It's quite intimidating when you are dealing with someone as high flying publicity and she's, you know, and you're working on edits and as it was, I had this imposter syndrome badly. But it would have been, I think, a little worse if I hadn't done the ma. So you have to sort of say maybe the timing was actually where it needed to be.

[Zibby Owens]

It all worked out the way it should have, but it all worked out.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

No more books and drawers.

[Zibby Owens]

So are you going to take another book out of the drawer now or are you going to start something new or what's the plan?

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Yeah, I did take them out and read them and they were no good. So. Yeah, no, I'm. I am working on a book and I'm hoping it will be book two. Yeah, it's. Every book is different, as I'm sure you know, and it's been a challenge. But I. I am trying to challenge myself. I'm not trying to write a Beautiful family again. So I'm trying new things that scare me a little bit. And it's exciting. I love it and I'm very lucky now that I don't have to have a day job and I can just write and yeah, it's fabulous.

[Zibby Owens]

So in the moment where you were taking all this time before work and going to the coffee shop and asking for your husband to take over that period of time of the day and being ruthless and then realizing that your book wasn't good enough and having to move on to another book, how did you maintain momentum? Why didn't at that point you say, forget it, I tried it, it didn't work?

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Yeah, I did try. I mean, there is a sort of horrible grief when you finish a novel and realize it's not what you hoped it would be. I think I also hadn't figured out how to do a second draft. I just hadn't realized how much you can improve a novel when you do that second draft. So I was putting a lot of first drafts into the draw. I was actually just really determined that hour and a half every day was. I loved it. It was like a highlight of my day. That and spending time with my children after school. That was huge for me and I didn't want to give it up. The outcome almost at that stage didn't matter to me quite so much. I did want to get published one day, but I think I understood that if I was going to get published, first of all, I wanted it to be good and that I just needed to do the work and work on my craft and get Better. So there were times when I wanted to give up, but I would stop for a little while and then something would come into my head and I'd be, I have to write that. And the book you haven't written is always the best book ever. Right. The next one will be amazing. And that carried me along, I think.

[Zibby Owens]

Oh, I love that. What is the literary scene in New Zealand like?

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

It's very literary. So there is quite a thriving literary scene, but the books that tend to get published here are quite literary. And I didn't see myself fitting that entirely. I could tell that my voice was a little more commercial, which was a little confusing. And for a while, that was one of the things, I think, that was making me put books and drawers. I couldn't quite see locally where this. Where my voice was going to fit. And that's probably why eventually I did send the book overseas. The other thing in New Zealand is that there's a. There's a strong desire among publishers that you set your books in New Zealand, which is fair enough. And I struggled with that for a while. I don't see myself. I didn't see myself as a landscape writer or someone who was good at setting, and I was a bit afraid to tackle it. And the New Zealand landscape is quite awesome in many ways. And I thought, I don't know if I've got what it takes. I don't do that justice. And then I just thought, you've just got to do it, Jenny. And because this setting in a beautiful family is very familiar to me, I thought, maybe I can do this. But, yeah, as I say, when the book was finished and I was ready to send it out, I did send it overseas because I think my voice was a little more commercial than what it tends to get published locally.

[Zibby Owens]

Well, there were a couple of things in there. I was like, what is a tog? Is it a sandal?

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

A tog.

[Zibby Owens]

Sandals?

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

No, tubs are your swimsuit. Oh, and jandals are sandals with the bit between the toes. Yeah.

[Zibby Owens]

Flip flops.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Flip flops, yeah. The American editor didn't want me to change that stuff. Yeah, I would have. I would have been. I mean, togs is such a strange word. And I think it might only be New Zealand that calls a swimsuit togs. What do you call a swimsuit?

[Zibby Owens]

Yeah, bathing. A bathing suit.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Yeah.

[Zibby Owens]

Like a bathing suit or a bathing suit.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Yeah. That's very posh. No, we just say togs. Yeah, interesting.

[Zibby Owens]

Now I'm replaying the scenes where the mom forgot her togs and I was like, I don't know why she couldn't just walk out without shoes. But. Okay, now I understand.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Okay. Oh, dear. We'll have to have a glossary.

[Zibby Owens]

So what advice would you give to aspiring authors?

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Where do I start? Oh my gosh, what advice would I give? First of all, I do think it's really important that you're ruthless with your writing time. I do think that you don't necessarily have to write every day, but I think that that writing time has to be ring fenced and you must be ruthless about it and not let anything else get in your way because there are so many reasons not to write. So many. So, yeah, and get the people around you to support that if you can. And then I think just, you've got to be writing about something that you're so excited about. Like, I feel like a first draft especially should feel like when you have a crush on someone and it's kind of this really secret, fragile little thing that you've invented that no one else knows about. It's all in your head and. But it must feel that, that sort of obsessive, like, I'm so fascinated with this, I can't let it go. I think if you're not feeling that, you're probably not writing the right story and your reader won't feel it either. So I think probably those two things make sure you're really obsessed with your story and make sure you. You ring fence that time and don't let anything or anyone get in your way if you can. Yeah, I love that.

[Zibby Owens]

I love the word ruthless when it applies to writing. That's, that's. It's a good word.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

It was actually Elizabeth Strout who said that and I'm a huge fan of hers and she said you have to be ruthless. And she, like me, was found success of it later on and she had children. And so I was gobbling up any interview I could find with her and yeah, I remember her saying that word, ruthless.

[Zibby Owens]

Okay, well, we will quote her then. Jennifer, thank you so much. Congratulations on a view for reading the.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Book and thanks for having me.

[Zibby Owens]

My pleasure. All right, take care. Bye Bye.

[Jennifer Chavalyan]

Bye.

[Zibby Owens]

Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have Time to read Books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram ibbyoens and Spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.

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[Zibby Owens]

Yes.

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Everything.

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Yes, Chef.

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[Jennifer Chavalyan]

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[Jennifer Chavalyan]

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