Jess Johnston, PERFECT IS BORING (AND IT TASTES LIKE KALE): Finding Belonging and Purpose Without Changing Who You Are

Summary

Podcast Summary: "PERFECT IS BORING (AND IT TASTES LIKE KALE): Finding Belonging and Purpose Without Changing Who You Are" with Jess Johnston

Overview

In this engaging episode of Totally Booked with Zibby, host Zibby Owens invites Jess Johnston, author of Perfect Is Boring and It Tastes Like Kale: Finding Belonging and Purpose Without Changing Who You Are, to delve into the intricacies of perfectionism, authentic connections, and the journey toward self-acceptance. Released on August 13, 2025, this episode offers listeners profound insights into overcoming the pressures of perfection and embracing the messy, beautiful realities of everyday life.

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1. Introduction to Jess Johnston and Her Work [03:15]

Zibby Owens introduces Jess Johnston, highlighting her multifaceted roles as a mother, author, and creative spirit. Jess is celebrated for her relatable writing style that makes readers feel at ease, as if they're sharing a cozy conversation over coffee. Her notable works include the Wall Street Journal bestseller I'll Be There But I'll Be Wearing Sweatpants and contributions to prominent publications like HuffPost, Scary Mommy, and Motherly.

Notable Quote:

Jess Johnston [03:15]: "My writing makes you feel like you're sitting cross-legged on my couch in your cozy pants while sharing hearts and drinking coffee."

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2. Exploring the Themes of Perfectionism and Connection [04:17 – 05:16]

Jess shares that her book is a deeply personal exploration of her own struggles with perfectionism. She emphasizes the universal nature of these challenges, particularly among women striving to meet invisible societal standards. By embracing imperfection, Jess believes individuals can foster genuine connections and find solace in shared vulnerabilities.

Notable Quote:

Jess Johnston [04:20]: "There's so much connection to be found when we're real and vulnerable about the hard stuff, the messy stuff, the imperfect stuff is really, really powerful."

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3. Embracing Imperfection in Daily Life [06:06 – 09:01]

The conversation shifts to the practical aspects of dealing with imperfection. Jess humorously recounts everyday struggles, such as managing mismatched socks for her children, highlighting that life's unpredictability often leads to moments of chaos. She advocates for recognizing and accepting these imperfections rather than striving for unattainable standards.

Notable Quotes:

Zibby Owens [06:07]: "So funny. I love that line."
Jess Johnston [08:16]: "I'm the placing in my life where I want to let that go. I'm probably not going to know where all the socks are, maybe ever. But that's okay."

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4. The Power of Authentic Friendships [09:41 – 10:25]

Jess discusses the transformative impact of having supportive friendships. She shares a poignant moment when a close friend reassured her during a particularly overwhelming period, saying, "I like you when you're a mess." This affirmation underscored the importance of unconditional support and acceptance in fostering mental and emotional well-being.

Notable Quote:

Jess Johnston [09:46]: "I like you when you're fun and not fun. I like you when you're a mess, when you're not a mess. And that's just like the most freeing thing."

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5. Navigating Parenting and Connecting with Teenagers [17:51 – 19:09]

Transitioning to motherhood, Jess candidly shares the challenges of connecting with her teenage children. She expresses feelings of inadequacy and the constant effort to balance relationships with multiple kids, each at different developmental stages. This segment underscores the universal struggle parents face in maintaining meaningful connections amidst busy lives.

Notable Quote:

Jess Johnston [17:56]: "I have teenagers, so I feel like all the time I'm like maybe I have four kids. I feel like all the time I'm like winning and connecting with maybe one or two of them and then I need to work on my relationship with the other two."

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6. The Experience of Moving and Building Community [20:17 – 22:23]

Jess recounts her experience of relocating to Santa Barbara with close friends, highlighting the challenges and joys of moving. She emphasizes the importance of a supportive community in easing the transition, providing both practical help and emotional support during stressful times. This move not only provided a fresh start but also reinforced the value of strong, authentic friendships.

Notable Quote:

Jess Johnston [21:30]: "Moving can always be difficult, but it was very incredible. Moving to a completely new place but having friends with so much history that as you're struggling to find your way, you can be like, what do you have in your fridge? I just vent and talk about how it's going."

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7. Growing Your Platform Authentically [22:23 – 23:21]

When asked about expanding her platform, Jess attributes her success to authenticity. By sharing her genuine experiences and vulnerabilities, she resonates with her audience. Jess emphasizes the importance of staying true to oneself and addressing relatable topics, which naturally attracts and builds a loyal following.

Notable Quote:

Jess Johnston [22:37]: "What worked was really telling my truth... speaking your own, something that really resonates with you, there's a big chance that it will resonate with others as well."

---

8. Looking Forward and Embracing the Creative Process [23:45 – 24:23]

Jess touches on her creative process and future projects, expressing a willingness to let ideas develop organically. With her children growing older and new life changes on the horizon, she reflects on the evolving landscape of her personal and professional life, hinting at forthcoming emotional and creative explorations.

Notable Quote:

Jess Johnston [23:48]: "I have just found that there are words inside of me, but I just don't know where they're going to land."

---

Conclusion

Throughout this heartfelt episode, Jess Johnston masterfully intertwines personal anecdotes with universal themes of imperfection, connection, and self-acceptance. Listeners are encouraged to embrace their authentic selves, seek and cherish genuine relationships, and find strength in vulnerability. Jess's candid discussions offer a comforting reminder that imperfection is not only acceptable but also a pathway to deeper connections and personal growth.

For those seeking inspiration and reassurance in their own journeys toward self-acceptance and meaningful relationships, this episode serves as a valuable companion.

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Additional Information

• Follow Jess Johnston: Stay updated with Jess’s work and insights through her social media and publications.
• Purchase the Book: Perfect Is Boring and It Tastes Like Kale is available for purchase through various book retailers.
• Connect with Zibby Owens: Follow Zibby on Instagram @zibbyowens and visit zibbymedia.com for more information and resources.

Transcript

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[Zibby Owens]

Today's episode has been sponsored by Digipod. As someone who's passionate about books and authors, I'm always excited to share resources that can help bring your stories to life. That's why I am thrilled to tell you about Digipod, a print on demand company that truly understands what authors need to make that happen. Here's what I love about Digipod. They don't just print your books and send you on your way. Their team holds your hand throughout the entire process with incredible customer service. They deliver professional grade printing quality, consistently beat their competitors turnaround times, and they can handle rush orders. They simplify the whole printing process and make it incredibly easy to achieve your vision for your books. Head over to digipod Zibby that's dash I g g y p o d dot com Zibby set up a free 15 minute printing consultation and get 10% off your first print order. You'll talk with their experts who will walk you through exactly how to set up your print job and answer all your questions. And by the way, I've seen the books and they are amazing looking. If you've been thinking about printing your book, this is the support you want. Again, that's digipod.com zibby for your free consultation. Hi, this is Zibby Owens and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest, best selling, buzziest or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think.

[Jess Johnston]

Is worth your time.

[Zibby Owens]

As a bookstore owner, publisher, author and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to stay in the know.

[Jess Johnston]

Get insider insights and connect with guests.

[Host]

Like I do every single day.

[Zibby Owens]

For more information, go to zibbymedia.com and follow me on Instagram ibioens Jess Johnston.

[Jess Johnston]

Is the author of Perfect Is Boring and It Tastes like Kale Finding belonging and purpose without changing who you are Jess lives in Southern California with her husband and four kids who are the loves of her life. She is an enneagram 7 and is enthusiastic about everything, but especially people, travel and sauces. Jess's writing makes you feel like you're sitting cross legged on her couch in your cozy pants while sharing hearts and drinking coffee. She is the co author of the Wall Street Journal bestseller I'll Be There But I'll Be Wearing Sweatpants and has been a top contributor to publications such as HuffPost, Scary Mommy, and Motherly.

[Host]

Welcome Jazz. Thanks so much for coming on Totally Booked with Zibby to talk about Perfect is boring and it tastes like finding belonging and purpose without changing who you are. Thank you.

[Jess Johnston]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Host]

As you can see by our introduction here where I was in the wrong place when we started, certainly not perfect. And your advice right on point for me. So thank you for that.

[Jess Johnston]

I love that.

[Host]

Why don't you tell listeners what your book is about?

[Jess Johnston]

My book is really about my own journey with perfectionism and also just realizing how powerful it is when we find out we're not the only one struggling through life, making mistakes, not hitting this invisible mark that feels no matter where we reach is going to always be out of reach. I feel like specifically for women in every area of our lives and so letting that go and learning that I'm not alone in the process. And actually there's so much connection to be found when we're real and vulnerable about the hard stuff, the messy stuff, the imperfect stuff is really, really powerful. So that's what I hope women get from this book is the feeling of connection and the feeling of just being able to embrace ourselves how we are.

[Host]

I'm like about to cry. Thank you. I need this. No, I feel like especially in this end of the year time and I know this episode will come out later, but we're all just racing and there are a thousand things on our list to do and it's just hard not to feel like balls are constantly dropping. Do you feel like still it feels.

[Jess Johnston]

Impossible because it is like this never ending list that we have. It is Impossible.

[Host]

Great. Well, I'm glad we're clear on that. Can I read a section or two? Okay. First of all, you're so funny.

[Jess Johnston]

Oh, thank you.

[Host]

There's this. You said you're talking about scrolling on Instagram and you're like, my thumb hovers over a girl I knew in high school.

[Jess Johnston]

She.

[Host]

She has so many cool tattoos. I feel like I'm a full sleeve person on the inside. Maybe I should get one.

[Jess Johnston]

Oh my gosh.

[Zibby Owens]

So funny. I love that line.

[Host]

But anyway, you go on to say, sometimes I have a hard time staying in my own lane. Especially if I'm particularly unimpressed with my lane at that moment. Like in the morning when I know my next big exciting activity is going to be scrambling eggs and desperately searching the house for my kids socks. I don't know if I should say this out loud, but sometimes my life is a little boring. So I get distracted by someone else's life and then I get stressed out because their life also seems hard to achieve. My lane is where my piece is. I know that. It's just that it's also where the laundry and the dishes are. I'm working on it. I love that. Tell me a little more about staying in your lane and looking at other people's lives and wanting what they have, even if you don't really know the full story.

[Jess Johnston]

Oh, gosh. I just feel so. I'm so easily distracted, I think. And especially like I said, when things are a little boring. Or I would also say when things are stressful, when I feel like I'm maybe not measuring up in the things I want to achieve in my lane, then I start being like, what's everybody else doing? It feels. And it also feels very like inside my body, it feels like being rushed. Mm is the feeling I get. Like I'm hiking on a trail and there's someone coming up fast behind me and I feel like I gotta race ahead. But for me, it's been really, really important to just let it go. Let go of who I am and. Or who I'm not and kind of embrace who I am. And I'm a pretty messy person. Like, I have a lot of quote unquote flaws, not super organized. I never know where my kids socks are, like ever. Every morning is like a scramble to find socks for all of us. Side note, once you have teenage girls, they want the socks to match and also be the right brand that matches the shoes. So that's like a whole other thing.

[Host]

My teenage girl will only wear my socks. So now I have no socks.

[Jess Johnston]

Like, I was literally just talking to someone else who said the same thing this morning.

[Host]

Yeah. Finally. I just found a pair of her socks this morning. And I was like, ha, Take that, Lululemon socks. I'm taking them for me.

[Jess Johnston]

Yeah, I know. Once you can share clothes, that's been a whole thing, which I kind of love. I love sharing clothes. And I have friends that have those strengths. Or I see people who clearly have, like, these perfectly curated houses, clearly very organized. And so then I can. It's really easy to start being really hard on myself. But I'm just the place in my life where I want to let that go. Like, I'm probably not going to know where all the socks are, maybe ever. Maybe I'll figure it out, maybe not. But that's okay. I have other strengths that I can lean into. And no matter what I am accomplishing or achieving or doing, there's going to be balls that drop, I guess.

[Host]

And meanwhile, from the outside, people will look at you and be like, oh, my gosh, if only. Like, you know, I've written two books, you've got this big following.

[Jess Johnston]

Yeah.

[Host]

People are probably just like, what?

[Zibby Owens]

Yeah, so what, that her house is messy?

[Host]

Why is that the thing that you have determined will measure your success?

[Jess Johnston]

Right. But it's so empowering when we realize that we all have that stuff. It doesn't matter who you're looking at. They have stuff that they feel like they're dropping or it's not meeting the mark.

[Host]

And I love that you found real validation through a close girlfriend because, my gosh, what would we do without our girlfriend?

[Jess Johnston]

Yeah.

[Host]

And that you said something like, you know, I'm a mess today, or whatever. And she's like, great, I. I still.

[Zibby Owens]

Love you when you're a mess.

[Host]

Or it doesn't matter what your house looks like like, totally Ms.

[Jess Johnston]

Ridiculous. That's totally mind blowing to me. I think specific, like, I was. My house was a mess. I was a mess emotionally. I wasn't like, I'm like, I'm not going to be fun today. I'm just all kinds of chaotic and overwhelmed. And she was like, she was like completely unimpressed with my. My whole list of things that I'm failing at, quote unquote. I was like, I like you when you're fun and not fun. I like you when you're a mess, when you're not a mess. And that's just like the most freeing thing.

[Host]

These could be greeting cards.

[Jess Johnston]

Yes. Yes, they totally could.

[Host]

Anti perfectionist greeting Card.

[Jess Johnston]

Yes. Yes.

[Zibby Owens]

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[Jess Johnston]

Yes.

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[Jess Johnston]

Everything.

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[Host]

Here, let me jump to another section. Every other page here is dog eared. Here's another one you said. When we moved twice three years later and landed in a town where the high school had more than 2,000 kids, I felt like I was drowning. I was just a face, just a body taking up space. Just one awkward teenager in a herd of teenagers. There were a few people who took the time to notice, offering me a lifeline I was in desperate need of. One was the woman who ran the writing center. She encouraged me in my creative writing process, letting me know she saw me and heard me talk about when you found writing to be helpful for you and how it has continued to be.

[Jess Johnston]

Oh, man. I think that started as a little girl. I remember books, like, reading was always such a huge thing for me. And I remember, for some reason, I remember cutting up this line paper into little squares and then writing, like, a teeny, tiny book in, like, third grade. But I was also super overwhelmed by it. Even as, like, a kid, I was like, this is gonna be so hard. Like, I have to write a whole story or 150 pages or 300 pages. But it was always just a language that gave a way of communicating that really unlocked something in me. An ability to express what was going on inside that I just really fell in love with. I probably fell in love with it the most in high school because I was really struggling. I was really lonely. I started to get friends in my senior year, but I really didn't have, like, a tight knit community. So I did really feel lost and alone and that was definitely a saving, like a lifeline for me.

[Host]

So when people are feeling at their most alone aside from writing, and when they are feeling the most self, when they're feeling the, the hardest on themselves, how can you get other people to do what you've done and say like it's okay, like I don't care about being. Not that you don't care about being permanent, but how do we let go of some of those expectations?

[Jess Johnston]

So, such a good question. First of all, I just like to say to every woman in the whole entire planet, like, it's okay, you're okay. No matter what the list says, no matter what you feel like you're failing at, I promise you're okay. And you're not the only one, whatever it is. But I think finding other, finding friendship based on vulnerability and that reality. And I really think that takes stepping out and kind of being honest with the things that we're struggling with. And it can, it doesn't have to be these huge deep things to start with either. It can very simply be, I was super frustrated this morning trying to get all my kids fed and I had a terrible morning. Or you know, it can be very. Just admit admitting to someone else that it's not perfect and that it's actually hard sometimes and you feel like a failure in this area or that area. I have just found that to be what unlocks for me an ability to just like a sigh of relief when another woman looks into my eyes and is like, oh my gosh, that was me yesterday. Or I get it, you're good. There's just nothing like I think getting out of my own head. Getting out of your own head. Because that can just be crushing. These cycles of thoughts and pressure can be crushing.

[Host]

So what's something you feel like you totally dropped the ball on lately?

[Jess Johnston]

I have teenagers, so I feel like all the time I'm like maybe I have four kids. I feel like all the time I'm like winning and connecting with maybe one or two of them and then I need to work on my relationship with the other two. It's very hard. Like we're miss. I'm missing it with my 14 year old daughter, but okay feels good with my 18 year old son. And that's hard because I want to feel in a constant state of good and connection and making sure I know what's going on in their lives.

[Host]

And you know, I literally as you, I also have four kids and as I was putting one of Them to bed last night, I was like, I feel like we didn't really connect this evening, like, because I had a. And then I came home, and then I was at my desk, and she was doing her art project, and da, da, da. And then she was reading and I was there, and I was like, we didn't, like, have a good thing tonight.

[Jess Johnston]

And she's like, that's okay.

[Host]

Like, we don't.

[Jess Johnston]

Yeah.

[Host]

And she's like, I had a great night. Did you have a good night? And I was like, I did. She's like, great.

[Jess Johnston]

Good night. Totally.

[Host]

So I feel like sometimes we feel like we need to be giving more than maybe even the people want to be receiving.

[Jess Johnston]

Absolutely. I remember a mom who was like a decade or two ahead of me in the process. She also had four kids. And she told me this story about when she had kind of a meltdown. Like, she went through just a very difficult time emotionally. And it was like a month or so where she didn't. She was dealing with all this other stuff, and she didn't feel like she was as present as she wanted to be with her kids, because she was. She remembers. You know, sometimes I would put a movie on for them, and I just lay in bed and cry. And when they were older adults, she asked them, like, do you remember that? Feeling so guilty? And her kids were like, yeah, that was. Was awesome. We watched so many cartoons. Like, their. Their memory of it was not, like, terrible at all. It was completely fine.

[Host]

Yeah. It's the stories we tell ourselves. I think that's really what your book was saying over and over. It's like, what we tell ourselves and how we frame the things that are happening can be the worst part about it. And we don't all have to be perfect and organized, and it can't be. So let's just roll with it.

[Jess Johnston]

Totally. And let's do it together.

[Host]

And let's do it together. And you actually moved for a friend, which is rare. Talk about that.

[Jess Johnston]

Yes. Well, so my. Our closest friends and us decided to move together. She's the one. She's. She was the keeper. I had to keep her because she was the one who's like, I love you. Messy or not messy or whatever. I'm like, okay. So we all decided we. We didn't feel settled where we were living at. We were living in Montana. Our kids were more little, but I was like, if we're going to make a move, I want to do it sooner than later. And we had dinner with these friends one night, and they Were kind of feeling restless, too. And we're like, what do you think about moving somewhere but moving there together? And I don't know. They're like, let's do it. So we took a trip, actually. Some other friends joined in to see if they wanted to move too. And we got a little Airbnb where we live in Santa Barbara now. And that's where we got the little Airbnb and just kind of spent the week exploring. Like, is this a place where we could see raising our kids? Does this feel like it could be home for all of us? And Santa Barbara really lures you in.

[Host]

It's.

[Jess Johnston]

It's very beautiful and sunny, and we're, of course, all like, yes, this is it. Absolutely. And so we did it. But it was amazing as I moved a lot as a kid. I will say it was. Moving can always be difficult, but it was very incredible. Moving to a completely new place but having friends with so much history that as you're struggling to find your way, you can be like, what do you have in your fridge? I have this in my fridge. You want to come over and just vent and talk about how it's going? So it was. It was really wonderful. It's been almost eight years now, and.

[Host]

I saw you at Godmothers, of course.

[Jess Johnston]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Host]

I love that up there. Oh, my gosh.

[Jess Johnston]

Oh, it's amazing.

[Host]

So lucky to have it.

[Jess Johnston]

And I loved your bookstore. Finally got to visit. Wonderful.

[Host]

How do you go about growing your platform? Because you've also pulled that off along the way. What are some of the things that you have found most successful?

[Jess Johnston]

What?

[Host]

Or is it just being really authentic and hoping people find you? What. How do you do it?

[Jess Johnston]

That is a huge way that I've learned to stay in my lane. There was a lot of voices like, you need to do this, you need to do that. For me, what worked was really telling my truth. Not in, like, a. I'm not like, the most everything's out there vulnerable person on the Internet, but just talking about what I'm dealing with in my life right now, in whatever area it is. At the beginning, it was all about motherhood and the messiness of motherhood. Then I started talking more about friendship and how it can actually be very difficult to make and maintain friends as an adult. But, yeah, speaking your own, something that really resonates with you, there's a big chance that it will resonate with others as well.

[Host]

And just to give Kael a better rap than you gave it on the COVID here, you were like, I Actually, don't even really mind kale.

[Jess Johnston]

My friend was like. A newer friend was like, well, hang on, Jess. I actually really like kale. I'm like, okay, but do you other things you like better, like cheese or chocolate? And she's like, all right, all right.

[Host]

Oh, my gosh. Do you have another book coming in this now soon?

[Jess Johnston]

Not yet. I am reeling right now a little bit. I'm, like, taking a moment, but I don't know if you feel this way, but it always feels like there's words inside of me. I just don't know where they're going to land. And I also feel like as my kids get older and are going to start leaving for college, this is a whole new landscape and all kinds of feelings and emotions I'm wrestling with now. So I don't know. The words are coming, but they're not quite there yet.

[Host]

Oh, the page will be waiting.

[Jess Johnston]

Yeah.

[Host]

Not to fear. Jess, thank you so much. Thank you for all the reassurance that I found reading your book. I know others will feel the same way. Perfect is boring and it tastes like kale. Thank you so much for coming on.

[Jess Johnston]

Thank you, Siby.

[Host]

Okay, take care.

[Jess Johnston]

Thank you so much.

[Host]

Thank you. Have a great day.

[Zibby Owens]

Bye.

[Jess Johnston]

Thank you for listening to Totally Booked.

[Zibby Owens]

With Sibi, formerly Moms don't have time to read books.

[Jess Johnston]

If you loved the show, tell a.

[Zibby Owens]

Friend, leave a review. Follow me on Instagram, ibbeowens and spread the word.

[Jess Johnston]

Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.

[Capital One Ad]

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[Jess Johnston]

Yes.

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[Jess Johnston]

Everything.

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[Jess Johnston]

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