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- [00:01]
Jill Santopolo
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Zibby Owens
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Jill Santopolo
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Zibby Owens
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Jill Santopolo
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- [01:42]
Zibby Owens
Hi, this is Zibby Owens and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby. Formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books. In my daily show I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to stay in the know. Get insider insights and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information go to zibbymedia.com and follow me on Instagram. Ibby Owens Jill Santopolo is the author of the Love We Found. She has been on this podcast I think two other times for her previous books and this book is a Zippy's Book Club pick Jill Santa Polo is the New York Times and internationally best selling author of Stars in an Italian Sky, More Than Words, Everything after, and the Light We Lost, which was also a Reese's Book Club pick. Her work has been translated into more than 35 languages and has appeared on the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Apple, Amazon, and Indie Bound bestseller lists. She received a BA from Columbia University and MFA from the Vermont College of Fine Arts. She is also the author of three successful children's and young adult series and works as the publisher of Philomel Books. Jill travels the world to speak about writing and storytelling. She lives in New York City with her family. Welcome, Jill. So excited to have you back to discuss the Love We Found, the sequel to the Light We Lost, which was one of my favorites of all time. Congratulations. So exciting.
- [03:22]
Jill Santopolo
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. I love talking to you about books.
- [03:25]
Zibby Owens
Oh, okay. Back up. For anyone who hasn't read the Light We Lost, give a one sentence about that and then talk about the Love We Found and how you sort of structured this and came to write the sequel at all.
- [03:39]
Jill Santopolo
Okay. So the Light We Lost is the story of Lucy, who on September 11, 2001, is finishing up college at Columbia University. And on that day, she meets somebody named Gabe. And the two of them have an instant connection sort of forged in the crucible of that day. And the book follows the two of them for the next 13 years of their lives as they kind of weave in and out of each other's worlds. And Lucy figures out what she wants to do and who she wants to be, and so does Gabe. And that's. Yeah, that's sort of the story, I think. Right? Yeah.
- [04:19]
Zibby Owens
Okay, great. So now fast forward and here we are with your next book. First of all, why write the sequel at all? I know people were demanding it, but why did you decide and what is this book generally about?
- [04:33]
Jill Santopolo
So I decided to write the sequel in part because a lot of people wanted to know what happened next, but also in part because I felt like I left them in a kind of broken place, particularly Lucy. And I wanted to create a story that would kind of heal her. I feel like the world has just been so broken in so many ways and we all need a little bit of healing. And I wanted to put sort of that vibe out into the world. So the story this time around is we're back with Lucy. It's 10 years later, and I don't know how much I can say about this book without Spoilering the first book for people who haven't read it. But do we feel like it came out eight years ago? It's okay. I can spoiler something.
- [05:15]
Zibby Owens
I think it's okay.
- [05:16]
Jill Santopolo
Okay. So it's 10 years later, and the Associated Press is going to do a retrospective on the work that Gabe had done. And Lucy now has all of his belongings. And inside the box, she finds an address that sends her sort of on a chase to look at more of Gabe's photography. And what she does when she goes on that journey, it sort of sets her on a path to healing and to unburdening herself of the secrets of the past and figuring out how she wants to live her future.
- [05:53]
Zibby Owens
Okay, perfect. So the book, this book, there are so many threads that I found so powerful. Loss, relationships, mothering, second chances, the connections that you make. I love photography, like everything about it. There was something that you could find that the reader could certainly find to relate to. Can I just read the first page of the book just to whet people's appetites? This is on the loss theme. Sometimes I wake up, and for a brief moment, you are alive, Gabe, in that blurry place between dreams and reality. You're smiling. Your arms are wrapped around around me. You're saying, I love you, Lucy. I will love you until the day I die. And then some. Just like you whispered to me when we went hiking in Cold Spring two decades ago. We'd climbed to the top of the Bull Hill Trail, and we're taking in the most breathtaking view of the Hudson River. Your whispered words, the reverence with which you said them, made me shiver, Made me lean back, turn my head, and kiss you hard and deep, like I needed to show you that I'd love you until the day I died. And then some, too. I forgot about those words for years. But they've come back to me recently. Come back to me in those liminal moments when I'm not quite asleep but not quite awake. And then the sun brightens or the alarm goes off and it hits me, you're gone. I wonder, particularly on those days, about the. And then some. Is there a piece of you somewhere that loves me still? Or is it all in the past? Are we ancient history, and am I the archivist keeping it alive? I don't know. How can you not want to read the book after you read that introduction? I mean, it's like for anyone who has lost anyone ever, you have to wonder, what does that mean? Where does the love go? And that's sort of one of the themes of the whole story.
- [07:37]
Jill Santopolo
My four year old daughter, actually my stepfather recently passed away and she has been asking all of these questions about sort of what happens and where people go. And one of the things she said to me, and it was after I wrote that scene in the book, was what happened to. She called him babe. His name was David. But what happened to Bev's love? Like, where did it go? I was like, it's still here, it's still here. Like, no matter whether the person is still here or not, the way that they touched you and the way that they loved you is still here. So we've been thinking about that a.
- [08:14]
Zibby Owens
Lot recently, but I'm sorry for your loss.
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Jill Santopolo
Oh, thank you.
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Zibby Owens
I feel like I met him at the Author's Night. Wasn't he there?
- [08:21]
Jill Santopolo
Yes, you absolutely did.
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Zibby Owens
Oh, I'm so sorry.
- [08:25]
Jill Santopolo
But I've been thinking about that for a long time because I think so My father passed away in 2015, so sort of when I was writing the first book, I was thinking a lot about what happens after death and what happens to the people who are left behind and how does that all play out. So it sort of is something I've been thinking about for a long time, but it really played, I think, into this book.
- [08:50]
Zibby Owens
How is your mom?
- [08:53]
Jill Santopolo
She's strong, but she's going through it.
- [08:59]
Zibby Owens
Sorry. Well, back to the escapist thrill of the book, which offers the reader a very different experience where we're getting on a plane and we're going through the streets in Italy and trying to find a boy who. And I love how you have us follow him throughout and this sort of wild goose chase that becomes the beginning of the launching pad for the rest of it. Take us through that and take us through your love of Italy, which I know you has been in past books as well.
- [09:32]
Jill Santopolo
So yeah, I. I just love traveling and I. In all of my books, the characters travel somewhere and Italy is a particularly special place to me and my family. It's where my father's family is from. It's where my husband's mother is from. So we have a ton of family there and we visit them and they're great. And they actually inspired my last book, Stars in Italian Sky. But that's a totally different podcast. But so for this one, I was really interested in what would Gabe have been covering right before he died in 2014 and 2013? He died in 2014, but what would he be covering in the end of 2013 and 2014? And there was a lot going on with The Syrian refugee crisis then. And one of the things that I find fascinating about Italy is the island of Lampedusa, which is this, like, vacation. Everyone goes there in the summer. Beautiful sailing, swimming, beach island. But it has become and has been, you know, for decades now, the sort of gateway to Europe for a lot of refugees. And people come on boats and they have on the island like this. They call it the hotspot, but it's like this Red Cross hotspot where people are coming in, in these boats that look like they could fall apart tomorrow and are getting sort of the intake in this space on this island. And the islanders who I met who live there are so involved, giving clothes, giving toys, helping. They're really part of this. There's this beautiful library that is a children's library. And it gives the children who come over, like, a packet of books. And they have the largest. They call them silent books, but, like, wordless picture books collection there. Because you don't need to know any particular language to read those stories, which I think is super cool. But I kind of thought this is such a. Interesting place to feature and to visit and to sort of shine a light on in Italy. And it's not the typical place when you're reading about Italy, where, you know, you read about Rome and you read about Milan and, you know, Florence and Venice and all of these, like, really romantic, you know, stereotypical, like, the Italian places you go to, which I love also. But I thought this was a really interesting place to focus on because it's not one that people talk about a lot in fiction. I mean, it's in the news a lot, but it's not really fictionalized often. So I had a lot of fun in sort of researching it, but also going there and visiting and talking to the people and visiting the libraries and seeing the Red Cross center and all of that.
- [12:28]
Zibby Owens
Wow. Well, thank you for taking me there. I needed a trip, so that was great. Very cost effective. Not a lot of work when you can just open the pages of your book and suddenly be there. So you have three different men in Lucy's life, right? We have Gabe and the memory and the love, which never goes away. You have Darren, and then you have Dax, who's our new character in this book. Talk a little bit about Darren and Dax.
- [12:55]
Jill Santopolo
So Darren is the character that Lucy ends up marrying in the first book. And I, in this book, was trite, was, you know, one of the main things that I wanted to figure out is, okay, what happened 10 years later, what happened with that marriage and any way that I sort of tried to spin the story in my head, I was like, it doesn't make it through. Like, there's. With the characters, the way I set them up, I just don't see how they could still be together 10 years later. But there are so many things about Darren that Lucy loved, that I loved. And I think the main one is what an amazing father he is. So I wanted to really be true to that in this book and try and keep. Try and keep their. Their relationship. One where Lucy finds a way to appreciate what she loved about him while also appreciating not being married to him in a way. So that was a sort of balance that I wanted to keep here. And then I wanted her to finally find love that seemed to fit her in a way. And when I was writing the Light We Lost, when I created Gabe and I created Darren, I wanted to create men who were really perfect for her in one way, but, like, really not perfect for her in another way. And with Dax, I was like, I just want to find someone who's the right one for her, like, in all the ways. Someone who appreciates her for who she is and for what she wants to do and for, you know, her quirks and her neuroses, but also for, like, all of the creativity and the light she wants to bring into the world. And that's sort of where I was going with Dax. And I think because Lucy has had pain and loss in her life, that really defined who she became. I felt like the person who would be a match for her would also have experienced losses, a different kind of pain and loss in his life, and that it would sort of shape them in the same way and bring them together.
- [15:03]
Zibby Owens
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- [18:43]
Jill Santopolo
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- [19:01]
Zibby Owens
Well, as we talked about when I saw you last time, there are some very spicy scenes in the book. And I was like, okay, Jill, look at you.
- [19:12]
Jill Santopolo
Go, go.
- [19:12]
Zibby Owens
Like you're like, get into it.
- [19:15]
Jill Santopolo
Anyway, I wanted that for Lucy.
- [19:17]
Zibby Owens
She wanted that for spice in her life. Yeah, Lucy needs it. I mean, come on, it's pretty awesome. And you perfectly show what it's like to have this kind of passion and these romps when you are a mom and you have custody days to contend with and what that feels like to have this on one day and then have something feels like so entirely different on the next. So much so that I remember asking you like, wait, but you're not. You didn't get divorced, right? Like, where is this coming from? So talk about that and like the passion in the context of motherhood and custody and not midlife. Because she's a little younger than that. But, you know. Well, not really. I don't know. How old is Lucy in this book?
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Jill Santopolo
I think she's like 44. 40.
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Zibby Owens
Yeah. Okay. So I guess you can, yeah. Anyway, talk about all that.
- [20:06]
Jill Santopolo
So I think, well, part of it is, you know, I have a lot of friends who in the, in the intervening 10 years, you know, have gotten divorced. So there are a lot of conversations that I have with close friends of mine about the back and forth of custody and what that means to different people when they're not with their kids. So that sort of all went in here. But I also think that as a mom who's not divorced, even so there are moments where it's like, okay, doing a bath, brushing teeth, pajamas, reading stories, and then going into the bedroom and being like, okay, now not a mom anymore. Let's turn that off and turn something else on here. And now it's not even a day to day, but it's like an hour to hour, minute to minute of like, which, which pieces of you are going to be the ones that are taking the forefront. And I feel that too with like, am I an editor? Am I a writer? Am I a mom, Am I a wife, Am I a sister, Am I a Daughter. Like, who am I in this moment in time? Because I am all of those things, but not necessarily all of them at once.
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Zibby Owens
Yes.
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Jill Santopolo
And I think that that's something that Lucy sort of pulls from in this story, that there are moments where she is one thing more than the other, which doesn't mean she's not all of those things.
- [21:27]
Zibby Owens
Also, I love that. Wait, talk a little bit about you and those different roles, particularly the professional roles, because you have your day job, which is super big and super important, and then you have your writing and everything else. So tell me about like, and how do you manage your time and toggle and what is your day to day like as a publisher versus an author?
- [21:51]
Jill Santopolo
Yeah, toggling is hard. So, yeah, I'm the publisher of Phil Mel Books, the children's book and print at Penguin Random House. So right now as I'm talking to you, I'm in my office at Penguin, and most of the hours of my day are spent doing this and working on picture books and novels with authors and artists and helping their visions get realized and out into the world, which I absolutely love doing. And then I would say, like, I get home from work probably a little before six, around six, and then like I am a full mom from like 6:00 to 9:00, let's say. And that's like dinner, bath, bed, packing, lunch, going through the artwork in the backpack, all of that like fun stuff. And then a lot of times after that, there's a chunk of time where either I'm writing or I'm doing something writer related for like an hour, an hour and a half or something like that. And then after that I am talking to my husband, my poor husband, who's like the last thing I get at the end of the day. But when I was going to graduate school and editing 100 years ago, one of the things that I realized worked for me was compartmentalization. So it was like, okay, these are the hours in which I do this thing. And now I don't do this thing anymore. And I try and really put it out of my head so that I can focus on this other thing. Because if I don't do that and like give myself real parameters, then it's like trying to answer emails while packing lunch. And then the lunch doesn't get packed and the emails get mistakes and I like it. It just makes me a little more chaotic than I typically am. So that's sort of what I try to do is really just figure like, okay, these are the hours that I'M doing this. These are the hours that I'm doing this. These are the hours that I'm doing this. And even, like, you know, right now, even though technically I'm in my office, my email is turned off, my phone is over there. It's like, I'm not. I'm talking to you. And if I can focus on talking to you, then when I'm done, I'll go back and I'll answer all of the things that came in in this time that we've been chatting.
- [24:07]
Zibby Owens
Thank you for taking time out of work to do this.
- [24:09]
Jill Santopolo
Oh, no, I'm happy to.
- [24:12]
Zibby Owens
I feel the same way, by the way. I'm like, I will be doing podcasting for these hours, then I will not be doing podcasting, and then I will read another time. Yeah, you have to. I feel like living by the calendar is super important. You know, like, this is when I've allocated this time. But yeah, by the way, like, I'm sure this must happen to you incessantly, because everywhere I go, someone tells me that they have an idea for a children's book or they've written a children's book, right? And just yesterday this happened and I was like, I think you should just self publish your book and just like, go hire an editor if you want, get a great cover and just, like, put it up. Just like, put it up on a platform and sell it yourself. Because, you know, this is not the time. Like, there are just too many books, right? So what do you like? What do you do? Like, there are like a bazillion people. Everybody has a children's book in them, basically.
- [24:59]
Jill Santopolo
Yeah, there are a lot of people. I mean, there was an article recently that I contributed to for Publishers Weekly that was, what is the oddest place that someone pitched a children's book to you? And it was like they asked a whole bunch of children's book editors. And what was your answer? So, well, I had initially thought the oddest place was going to be when I was at a family friend's bridal shower and some random person who I didn't know heard what I did and then started pitching this book while we were at the bridal shower. But then what I ended up writing about was when people started pitching my father, who is an endodontist, so he was doing dental surgery on people's mouth. And they start, they were like, oh, isn't your daughter a children's book editor? I have this idea. And then he would call me and be like, so this person in my chair today had this idea, maybe it's the next Harry Potter. I'd be like, dad's probably not the next Harry Potter. But like, okay, here's my email. Tell them they should send me a note or whatever. So I feel like the proxy pitching was really an interesting development.
- [26:03]
Zibby Owens
Oh my gosh.
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Jill Santopolo
But I think I'm a huge fan of the scbwi, the Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators. And I think that's usually the first thing I recommend to people who are interested in writing for children because similarly to what a professor at college had said to me when people were talking about wanting to write. And she said, if you want to write, you have to read really widely in the area in which you're going to write so that you know what's there and you know what you can contribute and you know if you're breaking rules, that you are doing it consciously and for a reason and otherwise that you know sort of what the parameters are. So I sort of feel that way about children's books too where like, if you join the Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators, you sort of have this space and conferences to learn. Like a picture book is 32 pages long. That's just like a thing because of the way they're made, right? So like there's, there's that kind of stuff which I think is important to know just going into any sort of, you know, writing endeavor, including in particularly children's books, because, you know, you may go out into the world and be like, oh, I'm looking for comm titles. Oh, wait, somebody did this already. Or somebody. Or like, oh, my book is 72 pages long and I want it for three year olds. Like, maybe that won't work, right? I mean, or maybe it will because you've consciously looked at the market and decided that this is a thing that you're going to do and break the rules for this reason. But I always feel like getting all of the basic knowledge first and then sort of figuring out like, oh yeah, this is actually something I want to pursue because I've done the research and I've. I've learned all the things. I think the research and learning the things to me is like the first, the first step.
- [27:54]
Zibby Owens
Yes. It's like the art world, right? You have to learn. What are you saying that's contributing to this conversation? Like you don't just. A canvas is not a canvas. Anyway. Okay, so back to the love we found. So in the midst of all of the day to day and the love Stories and this and that and, you know, coming of middle age, essentially for Lucy, there ends up being this sort of twist that you put in and revealing of a secret and all of this, which makes it even more propulsive as, like, especially towards the end, how this is gonna be handled and all of that. When you were drafting the book, how did you handle plotting, writing it? Like, when did. Did you know all of this to begin with or did it come as you were just going?
- [28:42]
Jill Santopolo
I knew generally what was going to happen. Like, I had written a sort of two page, chatty synopsis of what was going to happen in general. And then when I started writing it just sort of like the connective tissue built out. I was somewhere. And I said that my process in writing plot is sort of like planning a road trip where you start first and you're just like, okay, I want to drive from New York to Los Angeles. And you're like, okay, well, I want to drive from New York to Los Angeles, and I want to stop in these three cities along the way. Okay, now I want to stop in these three cities and go to these restaurants and stay in these hotels, and now I want to visit these museums. So I start with that very bare bones thing, and then I just kind of flesh it out as I go.
- [29:30]
Zibby Owens
Well, this is now clear to me why I have trouble figuring out what to write. Because I'm like, well, should I drive or should I fly? Should I take a train? Should I, like, at the last minute I'm like, well, wait, maybe I shouldn't fly from D.C. maybe I should. The weather's. I don't know. Maybe I'll take the train this time. Maybe I'll. Yeah. Now my indecision has. It all makes sense now that you framed it that way. Thank you for that. Will there be another installment in. Will this be a trilogy?
- [29:59]
Jill Santopolo
You know, never say never. But I feel like I left Lucy in a good spot. Like, I'm happy with where she is now, and I don't feel like I need to open up her next chapter, really. I've always thought I would like to write the story like a piece of the story from Darren's perspective, because I feel like those intervening 10 years and even this piece of it, like, are really rough in a way for him. Like. Yeah. So that's sort of a space that I was thinking could be interesting if I were to expand the world. And I also feel like there are other characters in the book who are smaller characters who I would be interested in telling their stories to. But I don't know if that's really gonna happen. I feel like Lucy's friend Julia, I'd be interested in. In her story. Kate, her brother Jay. I feel like they're characters who I really love and would love to give them some real page time, but no plans for that. No plans for that right now.
- [31:05]
Zibby Owens
And I didn't even get into the kids and all of the subplots related to the kids and all of that. So. Anyway, loved this book so much as, you know, it's one of my book club picks. I think everybody will love it regardless of whether or not they've read the first book. And I feel like it just. It's such an immersive, emotional, escapist read, and it's kind of the antidote for all the heaviness of the world. So thank you for this.
- [31:32]
Jill Santopolo
You're welcome. I hope it does put those healing vibes out into the world and sort of makes people at least feel good for the moment when they're reading it.
- [31:42]
Zibby Owens
And you are so helpful with running essentially Artists Against Anti Semitism now, by the way. So thank you. What is your official role there?
- [31:51]
Jill Santopolo
I think I'm co president of the board.
- [31:53]
Zibby Owens
Amazing. Thank you.
- [31:55]
Jill Santopolo
We're trying to put more love and peace and connection into the world, and I hope that that's the direction that the whole world starts leaning.
- [32:03]
Zibby Owens
Me too. Enough hate. I'm done with it.
- [32:06]
Jill Santopolo
Yeah, enough. Really? Enough? Yes.
- [32:08]
Zibby Owens
Okay, Jill. Well, thank you so much. Congratulations and yay.
- [32:12]
Jill Santopolo
Okay.
- [32:13]
Zibby Owens
Okay, Bye. Bye. Thank you for listening to Totally booked with Zibi, formerly Moms don't have time to read Books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review. Follow me on Instagram, ippyowens and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books. This is Paige desorbo from Giggly Squad.
- [32:39]
Jill Santopolo
This episode is sponsored by Boost Mobile.
- [32:41]
Zibby Owens
The newest 5G network in the country. With compelling deals for new lines, Boost.
- [32:46]
Jill Santopolo
Mobile makes it easy to switch.
- [32:47]
Zibby Owens
Today, Boost Mobile is no longer that.
- [32:49]
Jill Santopolo
Prepaid wireless company you remember.
- [32:51]
Zibby Owens
They've invested billions into building their own.
- [32:54]
Jill Santopolo
5G towers across America.
- [32:56]
Zibby Owens
With Boost Mobile's networks, customers enjoy the speed and service they'd expect from the big three. Plus groundbreaking benefits you'd only get from a true challenger of the industry. Boost Mobile will let you try the network risk free for 30 days.
- [33:10]
Jill Santopolo
So visit your nearest Boost Mobile store.
- [33:12]
Zibby Owens
Or find us online@boostmobile.com today.
- [33:16]
Jill Santopolo
Race the Rudders.
- [33:18]
Zibby Owens
Race the sails.
- [33:19]
Jill Santopolo
Race the sails. Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching. Over. Roger. Wait, is that an enterprise sales solution Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title and more. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign.
- [33:39]
Zibby Owens
Get started today at LinkedIn LinkedIn.com results.
- [33:43]
Jill Santopolo
Terms and conditions apply. If you wear glasses, you know how hard it is to find the perfect pair. But step into a Warby Parker store and you'll see it doesn't have to be. Not only will you find a great selection of frames, you'll also meet helpful advisors and friendly optometrists. Yep, many Warby Parker locations also offer eye exams. So the next time you need glasses, sunglasses, contact lenses or a new prescription, you know where to look. To find a Warby Parker store near you or to book an eye exam, head over to warbyparker.com retail.