Judith Viorst, MAKING THE BEST OF WHAT'S LEFT: When We're Too Old to Get the Chairs Reupholstered

Summary

Podcast Summary: Totally Booked with Zibby – Featuring Judith Viorst

Episode Title: Making the Best of What’s Left: When We're Too Old to Get the Chairs Reupholstered
Release Date: April 14, 2025
Host: Zibby Owens
Guest: Judith Viorst

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Introduction

In this heartfelt episode of Totally Booked with Zibby, host Zibby Owens welcomes back renowned author Judith Viorst to discuss her poignant memoir, Making the Best of What’s Left: When We're Too Old to Get the Chairs Reupholstered. This marks Viorst’s second appearance on the podcast, where she delves deep into themes of loss, aging, and the enduring power of community.

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Exploring Loss and Grief

Judith Viorst opens up about the profound impact of losing her husband, Milton, after over six decades of marriage. Reflecting on their long life together, Viorst shares the challenges of navigating life post-loss, especially within the confines of a retirement community.

Notable Quote:
"I don't like it, Zippy. I think it's a really dumb idea."
— Judith Viorst [11:12]

Viorst poignantly recites her heartfelt poem, Stop Being Dead, which captures the ache of loss and the longing for her husband's presence:

"Stop being dead. I have these conversations with my husband. I'm hoping that he's hearing what I've said. For though I know he died this past December, I keep on telling him, stop being dead."
— Zibby Owens reading Viorst’s poem [05:52]

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Navigating Aging and Independence

The conversation shifts to the realities of aging, emphasizing the importance of maintaining independence and redefining happiness in later years. Viorst candidly discusses the practical lessons she's learned, such as the necessity of understanding everyday tasks that she once delegated entirely to her husband.

Notable Quote:
"Life is a lot easier if you know where the switch is to turn off the water."
— Judith Viorst [07:12]

Viorst underscores the value of expressing emotions openly, advocating for more frequent and heartfelt exchanges like saying "I love you" or "I'm sorry," which she believes can strengthen relationships.

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The Power of Community

A significant portion of the discussion highlights the essential role of community in fostering happiness and resilience. Viorst explains how friendships and familial bonds provide support, laughter, and companionship, especially after losing a lifelong partner.

Notable Quote:
"Community is absolutely central to happiness... Amazing to me that at this late stage in life I could even make new friends and people that I had never met before and found very meaningful connections with to get you through the day and get you through the night."
— Judith Viorst [17:38]

Viorst shares personal anecdotes from her retirement community in Washington, D.C., illustrating how new friendships can blossom even later in life, offering both comfort and a sense of belonging.

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Judith Viorst’s Journey as a Writer

Transitioning to her illustrious writing career, Viorst recounts her early struggles with publication and her unwavering dedication to her craft. Despite facing numerous rejections over three decades, her persistence eventually led to the success of beloved works like Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day.

Notable Quote:
"Writing wasn't an assignment I gave myself or a career choice. It chose me."
— Judith Viorst [19:26]

Viorst humorously shares her son's initial resistance to the name Alexander for the protagonist, highlighting the unpredictable journey of creative projects and their eventual triumph.

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Memorizing Poetry: A Personal Ritual

Viorst discusses her passion for poetry, revealing that she has memorized approximately 50 poems. This practice serves as a mental sanctuary, offering moments of mindfulness and emotional solace.

Notable Quote:
"I think everybody should memorize poetry. It's like having these little treasures inside your soul that just stop for a red light."
— Judith Viorst [27:35]

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Advice for Aspiring Authors

Concluding the interview, Viorst imparts invaluable advice to budding writers: perseverance is key. She emphasizes the importance of embracing the iterative process of writing and rewriting, understanding that initial failures are stepping stones to eventual success.

Notable Quote:
"My big advice is you just keep at it. You keep at it and you're not discouraged by the fact that at the end of the day there is like one sheet of paper on your desk and a ream of paper in the trash can."
— Judith Viorst [28:14]

Viorst encourages writers to view every discarded page not as a failure, but as part of the creative journey towards crafting compelling narratives.

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Conclusion

This episode of Totally Booked with Zibby offers a deeply personal and inspiring conversation with Judith Viorst. Through candid discussions about loss, aging, and the writing process, Viorst provides listeners with profound insights into navigating life's inevitable challenges with grace and resilience. Her unwavering optimism and dedication to community and creativity serve as a testament to the strength of the human spirit.

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Connect with Judith Viorst:

• Books: [List of books and where to purchase]
• Website: [Judith Viorst’s official website]
• Social Media: [Relevant social media handles]

Follow Zibby Owens:

• Instagram: @zibbyowens
• Website: zibbymedia.com

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Note: This summary excludes promotional segments and focuses solely on the substantive content of the interview.

Transcript

[Zibby Owens]

Are you interested in being part of the live studio audience while I film a series for Totally Booked with Zibby Live in New York City? Sign [e-mail] I have a little Google form that you can fill out and if you get selected, you can come sit in the audience, hear from authors before their books have even come out, and be a part of the show again. Go to zibbyowens.com Filmings will be on April 16th, 23rd, 30th and May 7th in New York City. Be a part of it.

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[Zibby Owens]

Hi, this is Zibby Owens and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have time to read Books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling buzzies, four underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author, and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to stay in the know, get insider insights and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbemedia.com and follow me on Instagram ibbyoens Judith Viorst is the author of Making the Best of what's Left when We're too Old to get the chairs Reupholstered. This is her second time on the podcast, the first time I interviewed her as part of the Temple Emanuel Stryker Center Event Series. Judith Viorst is the author of the Beloved Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, no Good, Very Bad Day, which has sold some 4 million copies the Lulu books, including Lulu and the Brontosaurus, the New York Times bestseller Necessary Losses, four Musicals and poetry for children and adults. Her most recent books of poetry include what are you glad about? What are you mad about? And nearing 90, she lives in Washington, D.C. welcome Judy. Thank you for coming on Totally Booked with Zivi to talk about making the best of what's left when you're too old to get the chairs reupholstered. Congratulations.

[Judith Viorst]

Thank you, thank you.

[Zibby Owens]

You wrote in such a funny and moving and also sad way about the loss of your husband in this book and what it means to be older and what life looks like when you leave your home and so much else. Tell me about your decision to write this particular book and having read nearing 90, I was eagerly looking forward to this installment, so thank you for writing it.

[Judith Viorst]

Well, I tend to be writing about where I am in my life, and this was certainly a major where I am in my life. I've been married for over 60 years to Milton, knew him when he was 19 and I was 18, so he's been in my life practically my whole life. And his loss and moving to a retirement community and starting to acquire a list of specialists, every kind, you know, longer than my lifespan got me thinking about how do we manage at this time of life? How do we redefine happiness and negotiate loneliness and win our arguments with the kids when they want us to give up our car keys.

[Zibby Owens]

Well, I am profoundly sorry for your loss and I appreciate all of what you wrote. Can I read the poem in this book called Stop Being Dead?

[Judith Viorst]

Yes, please.

[Zibby Owens]

Okay, so this is a poem you wrote about Milton. Stop being dead. I have these conversations with my husband. I'm hoping that he's hearing what I've said. For though I know he died this past December, I keep on telling him, stop being dead. You've never been a stickler for the rules, dear. You've crossed some lines and some were really red. Obedience is not among your virtues. So stop obeying. Just stop being dead. I need you sitting at our kitchen table. I need you lying next to me in bed. I need you fixing our damn circuit breakers. I need you. Could you please stop being dead? It's only you for whom I'm lonely. I won't take any substitutes. Instead. Who knew you'd be completely irreplaceable? Come back to me. Come back. Stop being dead. Oh, it makes me want to cry.

[Judith Viorst]

Well, sometimes makes me want to cry, too. But it also evokes a lot of memories of this vital, vigorous, super opinionated man who I live with and love for so many years.

[Zibby Owens]

I think so many people fear that this will happen. And you joke about it early in the book. You know he wasn't supposed to die first, right?

[Judith Viorst]

Absolutely not.

[Zibby Owens]

So now that this is the way things have played out, would you ever go back and do anything differently? And would you tell other people, like, how do you live life when there's so much uncertainty now that you know where you've ended up, so to speak?

[Judith Viorst]

Well, I mean, the main thing I would like to have done differently has not been such an absolute dummy about the details of practical life. Anything that Milton was in charge of, I let him be totally in charge of. I did not know how to do taxes, how to get a car inspected, you know, where. Where the switch was when there was a water break and water was dripping down and I. And I didn't know how to turn it off. I mean, it's nice to be taken care of and have your husband and you split the chores, but believe me, life is a lot easier if you. If you know where the switch is to turn off the water. And, you know, on a less pragmatic note, I mean, I was. I was pretty good at telling him I loved him and fairly good at saying I was sorry when I screwed up in some way. But I, I could have been better. I think we all could have, you know, anytime we felt. And I love you. We should just say it. Don't say, Just say it. And, and it probably wouldn't kill us if we all learned to say more. I'm sorry. You know, I, I, if I, if I went back, I think I'd be a better person.

[Zibby Owens]

I mean, I think we all probably would be. Can I read just one more paragraph from what's left?

[Judith Viorst]

Please do.

[Zibby Owens]

Okay. You wrote, I don't want to flunk old age. I really want to be good at old age. If they're giving out grades for old age, I want an A plus. But we won't be good at old age until we figured out what's left after we've dealt with a host of cascading losses. And perhaps among these losses, the most difficult for us is the death of a husband or wife who, for better and worse, has been part of our life for most of our lifetime. I think we need a book entitled Preparations for Widowhood, and we need to read it before our husband dies. We also have plenty to learn from those who are widowed, much of it obvious, some of it a warning word to the wise that such and such should be done or said or done right now while he's alive, because later is non negotiably too late. Having some separate interests, some separate friendships, some separate sense of who we are when who we are is not a part of a pair can help to ease the separateness of widowhood. And we shouldn't wait till his death to figure out how to be a person, not only a wife. Do you feel like you now are being not only a wife? You have noticed some changes since then?

[Judith Viorst]

Well, yes, a lot, A lot of changes. I mean, there is something about having this other presence in your life who was. Well, I once wrote a poem and said, what's the secret of a long marriage? No mystery is my habit and my history. It was my habit and my history. We shared so much. Who else are you going to lie in bed with at night and talk about all the details and wonders of your children? There's nobody as interested in that as your own husband and you continue with life. I know a lot of women who have done remarkably well, and I think I'm doing pretty well without the man we love with us anymore. But it is. And some of these women have even managed to have a new relationship, have even managed to take off their clothes in front of a new man, which is not easy at a certain age. And yet there is this absence of this person you've been connected to for such a long time. So you have both. You. You also flourish in certain ways. I've seen people, really, some of them go on to new activities and new relationships of friendship and studies or a poetry group or whatever. I'm not seeing a lot of women turning into wilted flowers after their husbands die. But they have to work at it. You have to work at it.

[Zibby Owens]

How do you feel about death?

[Judith Viorst]

I don't like it, Zippy. I think it's a really dumb idea.

[Zibby Owens]

Agreed.

[Judith Viorst]

I don't understand why they didn't come up with a better option. But I think, I think about it a lot and I think about people I love who have died. And I think there is something to be said about continuing relationships in a way after someone has died, remembering them. Remembering them maybe in a slightly different way as you've gotten older and understood new things. I just said. I just went to New York three days ago to say goodbye to a very, very beloved old friend of mine. We met when our kids were five years old and just held her hand and said goodbye to her. And I think that's a good thing to do too, if you can do that.

[Zibby Owens]

Oh, it's so sad. Are you all right not to be somber on this? It's like the weather day is beautiful and it's all, you know, happy and whatever. So I don't mean to bring you down with these discussions about death, but are you afraid of death yourself? For you?

[Judith Viorst]

Oh, I think like a lot of people, we've all come to the conclusion that we're not afraid of death as much as we're afraid of dying. We want to have a sort of a hospice kind of death. A death that is the composed of some level of dignity and a lot of level of pain free.

[Zibby Owens]

That makes sense. Today's episode has been sponsored by Quince. It is spring and I have so many travel plans, from book touring to travel with my kids to everything else. So this year I am treating myself to the luxe upgrades I deserve with Quince's high quality travel essentials at fair prices. And seriously, these prices are amazing. Whether you get this beautiful cashmere blue throw, which I got because, you know, how nice is it to wrap yourself in a cozy blanket because airplanes don't give you blankets anymore and a navy blue suitcase. They have this fabulous hard shell carry on suitcase that I am just so excited to use. The best part about quints, all items are 50 to 80% less than similar brands. By partnering with top factories, Quince cuts out the cost of the middleman and passes the savings on to us. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes, which I just love. So for your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from quince. Go to quince.com zibby for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q-U-I-N C E.com Zivi to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Zivi today's episode has been sponsored by Fast Growing Trees. Did you know Fast Growing Trees is the biggest online nursery in the US with thousands of different plants and over 2 million happy customers. They have all the plants your yard or house needs like fruit trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, shrubs and so much more. Whatever plants you're interested in, Fast Growing Trees has you covered. Find the perfect fit for your climate and space. Fast Growing Trees makes it easy to get your dream yard order online and get your plants delivered directly to your door in just a few days without ever leaving home. Their alive and thrive guarantee ensures your plants arrive happy and healthy. Plus get support from trained plant experts on call to help you plan your landscape, choose the right plants and learn how to care for them. I am obsessed with the fiddle leaf fig tree, an indoor plant that I got from Fast Growing Trees. It is so beautiful and it just came right to my door. No annoying trip to a nursery or I once had to go in midtown in New York City, not even midtown. All the way to the flower district to find a tree and put it in the car. And that was such a pain. Anyway, now these came right. Everything comes right to my door and it's amazing. This spring they have the best deals for your yard, up to half off on select plants and other deals and listeners to our show get 15% off their first purchase when using the code Readbooks at checkout. That's an additional 15% off at fastgrowingtrees.com using the code readbooks at checkout fastgrowingtrees.com code readbooks now's the perfect time to plant indoors or out. Use Readbooks to Save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply. Today's episode has been sponsored by Wayfair. I don't know about you, but I love taking on a home design project. I love improving the house and making houses feel like homes so it reflects who we are as a family and makes it work better for us. Right now it's home project season and if you have not used Wayfair, and I'm saying this from the bottom of my heart, I love Wayfair. This is like my go to spot for absolutely everything. Why? The price is great. It is so fast. The delivery is so fast and so reliable and the quality is really great and it holds up. What else could you possibly want in home design? Recently we've gotten a bunch of new runners for this house that we're in now in Santa Monica. And it changed a hallway from something impersonal to something full of color and full of us. And it's just great. So if you have any sort of spring home goal or you're trying to make someplace new feel like you, this is the place to go shop. The best selection of home improvement online. Get renovating with wayfair. Head to wayfair.com right now. That's W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home Tell me about the power of community and how important it is. I know you already touched on this, but having people that you care about and who are there at any stage, tell me about that. And maybe a close friend who's really helped you along the way.

[Judith Viorst]

Yeah, I think community is absolutely central to happiness. I mean, when you get married to somebody, your marriage is not going to work out if you expect that one person to be everything and be interested in everything that you care about. That's why the universe invented friendships and family and community just helps you. You know, you call up, you're in a bad mood and get somebody to talk you out of it or convince you that this disaster or screw up that you recently engaged in is really not the end of the world after all, who can bring some laughter into your life when you're feeling glum? And who can hold your hand and be sad with you when you need that? There is a tremendously warm and welcoming community here where I, where I live, in this retirement community. Amazing to me that at this late stage in life I could even make new friends and people that I had never met before and found very meaningful connections with get you through the day and get you through the night.

[Zibby Owens]

Very true. Your career as a writer is so amazing. Right? You just are open and funny and vulnerable and you have written throughout life and taken the readership along with you. How do you do that? How can other people emulate what you've done? From writing children's books to writing Funny poems to writing books for grownups and all of that. When did you know you were a writer? And how did you keep it going for so long and just morphing when you needed to and all of that?

[Judith Viorst]

Oh, Zivvy, I'm one of these people who wanted to be a writer. My whole life I was, I was sending stuff out to my mother's women's magazine, literally, when I was seven, eight years old, I think I was still doing printing, not writing, not cursive. And because my mother's favorite poem was Annabel Lee, about the maiden in a setback or down by the sea, a dead maiden, I thought that there had to be a dead body in every poem I wrote. So my first poem was an ode to my dead mother and father, both alive at the time and quite a little nervous. Why don't you go out and roller skate and forget that morbid stuff? And I just, I set this stuff out. I was sending, I was sending writing out until I was well into my 30s without one single word ever being published. But I didn't know how to not write. I didn't know how to express who I was and how I felt. So, you know, writing wasn't an assignment I gave myself or a career choice. It chose me.

[Zibby Owens]

And how did you, even though you say you just kept writing, you can keep writing but decide not to publish or not to deal with the whole industry or rejection or whatever, did you just know deep down that this is what you were meant to do and you were willing to put up with whatever?

[Judith Viorst]

Well, again, I was once asked by somebody after I'd given a talk about, she said, I want to be a writer like you, but I can't stand rejection. I said, get another career because you're going to have to stand a lot of rejection. So I just kept on sending out. And one thing led to another, led to another, and by some miracle, I wound up finally having poems published in New York magazine. And my life changed. But it took me a very, very long time to get to that. And I just plugged away, I wrote, I sent out, I got back or totally ignored, and I needed to write. So, I mean, if you don't need to write and you can't stand rejection, really take up tap dancing.

[Zibby Owens]

Yeah, big market for tap dancing. Very reliable choice there.

[Judith Viorst]

Good, good.

[Zibby Owens]

Were you surprised by the success and sort of longevity of Alexander and the terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day?

[Judith Viorst]

I, I, I really, I really was because, I mean, I had my Alexander and I, and I, I read him this story when it was still in manuscript form and, you know, thinking, you know, since he had a lot more than a share of, of bad days, I thought I, I would cheer him up by writing this about. Kid had a bad day and he, he hated the book. He absolutely hated the book. I mean, he said, why are you giving me a bad day? Why don't you give one to Nick? Why don't you give one to Tony? Why me? Why me? You know, and he really was. This was not working out the way I had hoped it was. And I said to him that, well, we could change it to Stanley and the Terrible Horrible or Walter and the Terrible Horrible, but then this is me being a totally manipulative mommy. Then there won't be in great big letters in the front of the book. He said, keep it, Alexander. And the subsequent success of it was an absolute amazement to me. It was actually turned down by the publisher I submitted to and who I figured was going to take it because she had taken two other of my books and I have to say, as a result of all of its success, have a very immature attitude which goes like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Zibby Owens]

I love that. I love that so much. What's the thing that makes you the happiest when you wake up each day and get going? Like, what do you write still every day? Does that still make you happy? Is there something else you've started? Like what, what, what's. What makes you happy every day?

[Judith Viorst]

What makes me happy every day? Well, this absolute sinful beginning of my day, which is also, I have to say, I feel as if I'm listing all of my immaturities, is a large glass which is sort of basically half chocolate, Hershey's syrup and half milk breakfast every morning a large glass of very chocolatey chocolate milk. And that sort of whoops, gets me right in, right into the day. I don't, I don't necessarily write every day, but when I'm working on something and in the middle of it I can get com. I can get so engrossed. I have my chocolate milk, I have not brushed my teeth, I am still in my nightgown. And I go to my desk and I say to myself, don't start. But I start. And then it can be 2:00 before I'm out of my nightgown. And when writing is going well and you're just sort of flying along, even though you know you're putting a lot of stuff in the trash basket, it's a pretty exhilarating feeling.

[Zibby Owens]

Wow, I love that. A great image, I have to say. My grandmother made hot cocoa for breakfast every single day. She did it with the Hershey's powder or the Nestle powder. Yeah, the Hershey's powder. And I'm like, you know what? Maybe this is the secret to life. Get a little more chocolate.

[Judith Viorst]

Absolutely.

[Zibby Owens]

What do you like to read?

[Judith Viorst]

I like to read everything. I start the day with two newspapers every day and a lot of magazines. I read the old classics. I read some history. I finished a very interesting book recently about Lindbergh and Roosevelt, about, you know, internationalists and isolationists. It was found very interesting. And I'm. I'm. I'm reading Bob Gottlieb's book on being a voracious reader right now, which I. Which I love reading. And I like Ross McDonald murder mysteries. I'm a very eclectic reader. And I love, love, love poetry and read poetry. And while everybody else is doing word games and Boggle and this one and that one, I memorize poetry for my own pleasure. I promise my friends I'm not going to force them to stand around listening while I recite poetry, but I recite it to myself.

[Zibby Owens]

Well, you are welcome to recite a poem if you would like. Now the floor is yours. This is your moment to shine.

[Judith Viorst]

Okay. Really?

[Zibby Owens]

Yeah, really.

[Judith Viorst]

Louis McAnese. The sunlight on the garden hardens and grows cold. We cannot cage the minute within its net of gold when all is told we cannot beg for pardon, Our pardon As freelancers advances towards its end the earth compels upon it sonnets and birds descend and soon, my friend, we will have no time for dances the sky was good for flying Defying the church bells and every evil iron siren and what it tells the earth compels. We are dying, Egypt dying but not expecting pardon Hardened in heart anew and glad to have sat under thunder and rain with you and grateful too for sunlight on the garden.

[Zibby Owens]

Oh, my gosh, I'm applauding. I'll give you a standing ovation from my.

[Judith Viorst]

Thank you. That's a beautiful poem.

[Zibby Owens]

That is a beautiful poem. And wow, that you can just recite it like that. I can barely remember the Jabberwocky, which is. I memorized like.

[Judith Viorst]

I drill, you know, I've memorized about 50 whole poems or pieces of poems. That was a whole one. And then you have to drill or it slips away down those holes in your. In your memory. But, I mean, I think everybody should memorize poetry. It's like having these little treasures inside your soul that just stop for red light. Instead of freaking out because you're late, recite a little poem.

[Zibby Owens]

Huh? It's like the ultimate in mindfulness. I love that. Oh, my goodness. Okay, well, I don't want to keep you forever, but do you have any advice for the aspiring author out there?

[Judith Viorst]

Well, I guess my big advice is you just keep at it. You keep at it and you're not discouraged by the fact that at the end of the day there is like one sheet of paper on your desk and a ream of paper in the trash can that you understand that writing is rewriting and rewriting and telling it a million dumb ways before you tell it a good way. And if you're a writer, you don't need to hear any of this from me because you're going to do it anyway.

[Zibby Owens]

Wow. Well, Judy, thank you so, so much for your time. You were such a role model to so many and your attitude about everything is just fabulous and how great. I will start memorizing poems and think of you. So thank you.

[Judith Viorst]

Thank you. And it was a real pleasure to talk with you. It really was.

[Zibby Owens]

Oh, you too. I hope you have a great day.

[Judith Viorst]

You too.

[Zibby Owens]

Thank you. Bye Bye. Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have time to read Books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram ibbeowens and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.

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[Judith Viorst]

Com.