Podcast Summary: Totally Booked with Zibby

Guest: Karen Palmer, Author of She’s Under Here: A Memoir
Host: Zibby Owens
Date: October 16, 2025

Episode Overview

In this riveting episode, Zibby Owens interviews Karen Palmer, author of She’s Under Here: A Memoir. The conversation explores Palmer’s harrowing true story of escaping an abusive marriage, the ripple effects on her identity and family, and the long and complex process of turning trauma into literature. The memoir is described as “A Love Story, A Horror Story, A Reckoning,” and this episode intimately uncovers all of those threads.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Writing the Memoir: Process and Purpose

• Long Gestation: Palmer describes the memoir as “14 years in the making and many false starts” (04:37).
  • She struggled to find how and what she wanted to say, given the intensely personal subject matter.
  • Seeing the book out in the world is “kind of amazing.”
• Memoir’s Scope: The book chronicles Palmer and her second husband’s efforts to escape her dangerous ex-husband, detailing the act of changing their identities and the consequences that followed (05:29).

The Role and Loss of Books

• Books as Sanctuary: Palmer writes movingly about books as her childhood lifeline, her mother's solace, and their near-sentient presence during tough family dynamics (06:28).
  • Quote: “I believed books were alive. Not just the tales within them, but the objects themselves. Seated in my mother’s lap with a story, the stiffness of the cover told me what it was to have a spine... The words... were like heartbeats.” — Karen Palmer, read by Zibby (06:28)
• Losing the Ability to Read: During the year before she and her family ran, Palmer says she shockingly “lost the ability to read”:
  • “It was shocking to me that I had no ability...that was my major source of entertainment and education... and to lose that was painful.” (07:18)

Formative Trauma: Adoption

• Formative Experience: Palmer, at 16, gave birth to a son and gave him up for adoption, an event shaping all subsequent choices.
  • Quote: “I was my son’s mother. That was a fact forever. But... his mother would never be me. What made a mother?” — Karen Palmer, read by Zibby (09:02)
• Impact on Relationships: The trauma and isolation led Palmer toward her older, dangerous future husband.

Abuse, Realization, and Escape

• Cumulative Realization: Palmer uses a series of vignettes to capture 14 years with her ex-husband — years that felt “normal,” punctuated by terror (11:08).
  • She grappled with moments that seemed innocuous alone, but together revealed a trajectory to danger and estrangement: “Not only does he not love me, but I no longer love him, and that’s what allowed me to finally leave him.” (12:13)
• Kidnapping Incident: A tense, frightening segment where Palmer’s ex-husband takes her daughter without warning.
  • “As he came toward me, he was exuding the most intense hatred... I gave [the baby] to him... he started walking ahead... when I stood back up, they were gone. It was nine days before I got her back. It sounds over-melodramatic, but you want to die. You know, I was so afraid he would vanish forever.” (12:30–14:46)

Aftermath and Psychological Recovery

• PTSD and Lingering Fear: Palmer describes persistent PTSD after moving to Boulder, always feeling her ex-husband might appear around every corner. Even decades later, she still dreams about her children disappearing (14:59).
• On Surviving and Grief: After their final move, Palmer had a breakdown, her “self-sufficiency drained away.”
  • Quote: “I couldn’t feel my edges... For the first time, I understood how seductive not existing could be.” (16:12)
• Finding Clarity: Though the pain was immense, Palmer sees her lowest period as eventually clarifying, enabling slow healing over the following 20 years.

Memoir’s Broader Themes

Identity

• Central Question: “How do you know who you are? Are you yourself, even if you change everything about your life?” (24:12)
  • Palmer sought to investigate the existential shape of her identity in the aftermath of changing names, homes, and relationships.

Domestic Violence and Coercive Control

• Palmer highlights that “not all domestic violence is being beaten”—in her case, much of it was “coercive control” (24:12), a form of psychological abuse now gaining wider recognition in legal and cultural contexts.

  • Quote: “For years I told myself, well, he’s a good father. But a good father doesn’t torture the mother.” (24:12)

• She emphasizes still feeling guilt about running, even as she knows she had no real choice.

Support and Solidarity

• On sharing her story: “There are women all over the place... [who] will come up and talk to me... It is more acceptable now to speak out and to find support.” (30:04)
• Her advice: Find someone to talk to, seek support, and value yourself, even when it feels impossible.

Life After Trauma

Family Reconnection

• Palmer has been with her second husband for 36 years; both daughters have grown into healthy, supportive adults. The oldest daughter retains complex memories of her biological father, while the youngest considers her stepfather her dad (22:25).

• Family has embraced Palmer’s decision to write the book: “They have never said, don’t write about this... only, tell the story you need to tell and we’re behind you.” (23:22)

Return to Fiction

• After this memoir, Palmer says, with relief, “I am so anxious to get back to fiction. I will never do another book length memoir project” (27:40–27:42).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The difference is he took [my daughter] to punish me, and we were trying to protect the kids.” — Karen Palmer (14:46)
• “Not all domestic violence is being beaten... most of my situation was coercive control, where the husband belittles and demeans and controls every aspect of the woman’s life.” — Karen Palmer (24:12)
• “Find somebody to talk to... and try to get help. Value yourself.” — Karen Palmer (30:04)
• “I do imagine that I will write essays here and there... but I will never do another book length memoir.” — Karen Palmer (27:42)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Karen describes the memoir’s focus and process: 04:37–05:29
• On losing the comfort of books: 06:28–08:24
• Recounting her first pregnancy and adoption: 09:02–11:04
• Realization of marriage’s toxicity: 11:08–12:13
• Kidnapping incident with her daughter: 12:30–14:46
• Effects of trauma and psychological aftermath: 14:59–18:20
• Current family life: 22:25–24:12
• On the memoir’s meaning/why she wrote it: 24:12–27:03
• Return to fiction, thoughts on writing: 27:40–28:30
• Advice for listeners in difficult relationships: 30:04–31:10

Tone and Style

Zibby Owens is deeply empathetic, warm, and curious throughout the interview, frequently reading beautiful, wrenching passages aloud and offering words of admiration and support. Karen Palmer meets this with candor, reflection, and grace, never shying away from the pain but always returning to themes of growth and survival.

Final Thoughts

This episode stands out for its honesty about the long tail of trauma, the ambiguous and often solitary process of survival, and the courage required to make one’s story public. Both practical and philosophical, Palmer’s reflections offer solidarity to readers and listeners who have faced abuse, loss, and upheaval—and reaffirm the power of literature both to heal and to bear witness.