Kerry Docherty, Selfish, and Jess H. Gutierrez, Adulting for Amateurs

Summary

Totally Booked with Zibby
Host: Zibby Owens
Guests: Kerry Docherty, author of Selfish: Unlearning, Reclaiming, and Telling the Truth, and Jess H. Gutierrez, author of Adulting for Amateurs
Date: June 4, 2026

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Episode Overview

This special double-header episode of “Totally Booked with Zibby” features two live author conversations recorded at the Whitby: one with Kerry Docherty, delving into her memoir Selfish, and one with Jess H. Gutierrez, whose hilarious collection Adulting for Amateurs explores the messy realities of growing up without ever really feeling like a full-fledged adult. Zibby explores the intersection of personal truth-telling, relationships, creative journeys, and finding humor in everyday life with both guests.

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Part 1: Kerry Docherty - Selfish: Unlearning, Reclaiming, and Telling the Truth

[Discussion Begins - 04:41]

Main Theme

Kerry shares the evolution of her memoir, which chronicles her journey from a competitive, people-pleasing child to reclaiming her sense of self and creativity, even as that journey took her through the complexities of marriage, entrepreneurship, and familial roles.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Origin of the Book

  • Book opens with Kerry and her husband in couples therapy, debating salary and effort in their co-founded clothing brand, Feherty.
  • The conversation and her husband’s comment (“I’m not selfish”) spark Kerry’s introspection about what it means to put oneself first.
  • “[The book] really chronicles what happens when we start to put ourselves first and the messy journey of that… This is not a self-help book.” – Kerry Docherty [05:04]

• Personal Narrative Meets Business Story

  • Zibby highlights how the memoir is a blend of personal and behind-the-brand stories, providing insight into both Kerry’s upbringing and her role in building a now-famous brand.
  • Kerry wanted to provide an honest look at the personal toll and practical costs of entrepreneurship, in contrast to sanitized CEO narratives.
  • “There needs to be a support group for people who write memoirs, and a support group for people who are in memoirs who do not want to be in memoirs.” – Kerry Docherty [06:51]

• Telling Hard Truths and Family Impact

  • Writing the memoir opened up new, sometimes painful intimacy in her marriage, especially in confronting her own needs and choices.
  • Kerry references Esther Perel: “Every memoir is an act of betrayal.” She acknowledges parts of the book her family and the company “don’t want out there.” [08:22]
  • “The most selfish act… is writing this book. There are parts… our company doesn’t want out there… It’s been very painful.” – Kerry Docherty

• Creativity, Desire, and the “Beau” Storyline

  • The memoir details an emotionally intimate friendship with another man (pseudonym “Beau”), symbolizing her unawakened creative self.
  • “He’s a musician, he’s an artist, he’s moody, he sings about painful things… I was so enamored by these qualities.” – Kerry Docherty [09:56]

• Memoir as Self-Discovery and Healing

  • Writing was “an archeology dig into my own mind and heart… It was so healing.” – Kerry Docherty [11:15]
  • Pushed to always ask: “What am I not saying that needs to be said?”

• Personal Growth Through the Brand's Success

  • Kerry wrestles with feeling sidelined as the brand (her husband’s childhood dream) took off, acknowledging her own unpursued dreams contributed to her hurt.
  • “Now that I’ve pursued [my own dreams], I have so much more compassion.” [13:01]

• On “Being Selfish” and Caring for Others

  • Emphasizes awareness, alignment, and the communal aspect of selfhood; quotes Prentis Hemphill, “The self is not an individual.”
  • “If I am whole and full, I am going to be able to be a better service to you as well.” [15:12]

• Writing Process and What’s Next

  • Book evolved over about three and a half years, starting as disconnected essays, originally titled The Selfish Wife. [14:35]
  • On future plans: “I cannot wait to write another book. I just can't wait.” – Kerry Docherty [16:46]

Notable Quotes

• “There needs to be a support group for people who write memoirs, and a support group for people who are in memoirs who do not want to be in memoirs.” – Kerry Docherty [06:51]
• “Every memoir is an act of betrayal.” – (quoting Esther Perel), echoed by Kerry Docherty [06:51]
• “If I am ensuring that I’m putting ten spoonfuls of nourishment into my body, I’m going to be able to give ten spoonfuls of nourishment out.” – Kerry Docherty [15:12]
• “I cannot wait to write another book. I just can't wait.” – Kerry Docherty [16:46]

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Part 2: Jess H. Gutierrez - Adulting for Amateurs

[Discussion Begins - 19:40]

Main Theme

With candor and wit, Jess dissects the myth of arriving at adulthood, using her own “geriatric millennial” experiences – messy family life, relatable failures, and cultural nostalgia – to connect, comfort, and make readers laugh.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Premise and Audience Connection

  • Jess’s book explores the feeling of never fully arriving at adulthood, despite hitting traditional milestones: marriage, career, parenthood.
  • “I have three kids, I got married, I have a big girl job… and I’ve never had that moment where I’m like, I have fully arrived.” – Jess H. Gutierrez [20:40]
  • Most people, including her own mother, feel this way—asking, “Do you feel like an adult?” and discovering the answer is usually no.

• Humor and Relatability

  • Zibby emphasizes the book is laugh-out-loud funny, recounting her own embarrassment laughing on an airplane while reading.
  • Book is suffused with playful nostalgia (e.g., cassette tapes, Care Bears) and the absurdities of modern “adulting.”
  • “If I got rid of all the Care Bears names in my head, I’d have so much room for useful things!” – Jess H. Gutierrez [23:45]

• Pop Culture as a Bridge

  • References and stories are touchstones for Gen X and Millennials, making the book relatable even for those whose life stories differ.
  • Jess sees the collection as universal in spirit, even if her stories are quirky and specific.

• On Self-Acceptance and Imperfection

  • Discusses getting comfortable with “not having it together” and the liberation of no longer caring what others think.
  • “Finally, being okay with your, like, dumpster fire, eating pizza like a raccoon out of a dumpster self feels kind of good.” – Jess H. Gutierrez [25:41]
  • “It’s probably a lens we put on ourselves… I was hard on myself, and now I’m just like, girl, not the best Wednesday, but you tried.” [25:41]

• Marriage, Privacy, and Representation

  • Jess details how she balances sharing stories while respecting her wife’s privacy, especially as a queer couple in conservative Arkansas.
  • Memoir makes her wife “quietly proud, but also… ‘Oh my God, Jess. Really?’”
  • “Being les, that is the least interesting part about us… When people read their story, they’re like ‘Oh my god, it’s just like me and my husband!’” [27:27]

• Continual Creativity

  • Jess is prolific, always writing without a strict routine, squeezing essays between her “real job” as a respiratory therapist and teaching.
  • “Someone called me prolific one time, which was such a compliment, but for me, I’m just… I just keep writing. I love it.” – Jess H. Gutierrez [30:27]

Notable Quotes

• “I have never laughed so hard as reading this book.” – Zibby Owens [20:00]
• “Finally, being okay with your, like, dumpster fire, eating pizza like a raccoon out of a dumpster self feels kind of good.” – Jess H. Gutierrez [25:41]
• “Being les, that is the least interesting part about us.” – Jess H. Gutierrez [27:27]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:41] – Kerry Docherty explains the origin of Selfish and her memoir’s themes
• [06:51] – Discussing writing honestly about family and business, “memoir as betrayal”
• [09:56] – The creative awakening, “Beau” and reclaiming the self
• [13:01] – Navigating professional vs. personal goals, and the feeling of being sidelined
• [15:12] – On selfishness, nourishment, and mutual benefit in relationships
• [16:46] – Kerry on future writing: “I cannot wait to write another book.”
• [19:40] – Jess H. Gutierrez introduces Adulting for Amateurs and never feeling like a full adult
• [20:00] – Zibby recounts the book’s humor and relatability
• [23:45] – Pop culture references and the generational connection
• [25:41] – Self-acceptance, letting go of perfectionism
• [27:27] – How Jess balances memoir writing with family privacy and representation
• [30:27] – Jess on her prolific (but unstructured) creative process

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Memorable Moments

• Zibby’s airplane laughter over Jess’s book (20:00)
• Kerry’s raw honesty about emotional and creative awakening—and the cost of truth-telling for herself and her loved ones (06:51; 09:56)
• Jess’s wry note: “If I got rid of all the Care Bears names in my head, I’d have so much room for useful things!” (23:45)
• Both authors on their creative futures: excitement and a commitment to continuing their work

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Tone and Style

This episode blends openness, warmth, and honesty, creating a sense of camaraderie between guests and host. Zibby’s lively enthusiasm and quick humor set the stage for candid, often poignant revelations from Kerry and Jess, tempered by both vulnerability and laugh-out-loud moments. Both authors highlight that sharing life’s messiness—whether through memoir or humor essays—can make readers feel seen, understood, and less alone.

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For Listeners

Those interested in candid, heartfelt memoirs, women’s journeys toward self-actualization, or simply a good, cathartic laugh will find both featured works compelling. The episode’s dual structure offers both emotional depth and relatable, comedic storytelling for fans of contemporary women’s writing.

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Listen for:

• Real talk about creative ambition versus family roles
• Honest discussions about marriage, intimacy, and truth-telling
• Geriatric millennial nostalgia and the myth of “having it together”
• Humorous stories about parenting, relationships, and queer life in the South

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Transcript

[Zibby Owens]

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[Jess H. Gutierrez]

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[Zibby Owens]

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[Jess H. Gutierrez]

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[Zibby Owens]

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[Zibby Owens]

Hi, this is Zibby Owens and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author, and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to stay in the know, get insider insights and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbemedia.com and follow me on Instagram ibyoans Today is a two in one episode. Carrie Dougherty is the Author of Unlearning, Reclaiming and Telling the Truth. I interviewed Carrie live at the Whitby and this is the second time Carrie has been on my show. The first time was for her children's book, which we talk about in the episode. Carrie co founded the lifestyle clothing brand Ferty with her husband and his identical twin. A graduate of Yale University and Pepperdine Law School, she is passionate about community building, sustainability and creativity. As I mentioned, she's the author of the children's book Somewhere Right now, featuring art by New York Times best selling author, Susie Mason. Actually, I met Carrie because of our shared editor for our children's books, Margaret Anastasia. So Margaret, if your ears are burning, this is why. Carrie lives with her husband and two children on the New Jersey shore where she is constantly looking for sea glass. Jess H. Gutierrez is the author of Adulting for Misadventures of a Geriatric Millennial. We recorded this live at the Whitby. Jess is a speaker and former journalist whose work has been published in Northwest Arkansas Times, Arkansas Democrat Gazette, Siloam Springs Herald Leader, and the Fayetteville Free Weekly. She has earned several awards from the Arkansas Press association and also won the fifth grade spelling bee. Despite the fact that everyone thought that Chrissy Eaton would take the title. She lives in Northwest Arkansas with her firefighter wife who is way cooler than she is. Their three wild kids, a surly bulldog named Hank, a cattle herding Yorkie poo named Bella, and six chickens who refuse to lay eggs. Welcome to Totally Booked Live. I'm so excited to be here with Carrie Dougherty to talk about her book Selfish A Memoir. And there's a subtitle that I need my glasses for unlearning, reclaiming and telling the truth. Congratulations. Thank you. Yay. Tell everybody what the book is about.

[Carrie Dougherty]

So the book opens with my husband and I in couples therapy negotiating our salary. When you work with your husband, it can be interesting. And he was sharing why he thinks he should make more because he works harder. The brand, our clothing brand, was really his dream. And he said, and I just me, Carrie, just do what I want. And I said, well, why don't you do what you want? And he says, because I'm not selfish. And so that's really how the book starts. But that's not how little Carrie Docherty said, I did not start as selfish. I was a very well groomed, people pleasing type, a competitive child. And over time I just started to realize it wasn't working for me. And so this book really chronicles what happens when we start to put ourselves first and the messy journey of that. This is not a self help book. This is, I think my editor thought it was be more prescriptive. And then I gave her the first draft and she was like, this is not a self help book. I said, this is not a self help book. So the book really showcases the different ways sometimes we're selfless and selfish and then the consequences of doing that.

[Zibby Owens]

So it's kind of two parts. One is you growing up and the backstory that you give us with your family and competitive sports and just who you kind of are at baseline. And then you take us through your marriage, particularly through the launch of the Feherty brand, which I don't know if anybody's been to a Ferrity store or worn their clothes. Amazing. But that's a huge undertaking for sure. Launch entrepreneurship, building that while building your family and everything. And it's as much almost a business story as it is a personal life story, because you take us into the times where the fabric was too see through. And just like all these little moments that only you could probably be telling, which I found absolutely fascinating. When you decided to talk about the personal life behind the brand, how did that go over? How did you decide to do that? Did you need anybody else's buy in? Because your husband and his brother and mom are characters in the book as well.

[Carrie Dougherty]

Yes, it is a very personal story. It's a very honest story. And I had read a lot of entrepreneurship books, founder books, and I just never felt like people were honest. You know, you read about CEOs wake up at 5am and I want to be like, can I talk to your spouse? Spouse, please? I would love to hear what is the cost of fast paced capitalism sometimes. And my husband and I met the first day of college and we really had to navigate building this brand together. What are our roles? How did we find value, place value on things? We're still married, happily married. But when I was starting to write this book, I really had to disassociate from, from the fact that people would read it. I think I was delusional. I think I thought I would hand this book to everyone and I would just get a standing ovation. And I think there needs to be a support group for people who write memoirs. And I think there needs to be a support group for people who are in memoirs who do not want to be in memoirs. And the most selfish act, and I share this at the end of the book, is writing this book. I think it's Esther Perel, who wrote every memoir as an act of betrayal. And there are parts of this book that our company doesn't want out there. My husband doesn't want out there. My husband has been so supportive, and also it's been very painful.

[Zibby Owens]

So how do you square those two things?

[Carrie Dougherty]

Therapy, repair? I think really, you know, I think I had a very deep seated need to feel seen in my relationship, and this book has helped me feel seen. And also he saw parts of me that Seen, seen. There were parts of me that a lot. You know, there's a whole shadow side of me that I showcase in this book. And he knew that side. He just couldn't believe that I would be sharing it so publicly. But there's a real gift in telling the truth and the level of intimacy that can happen when we are so honest with each other. And I think the level of intimacy we have now, I never would have been able to get to had I not written this book.

[Zibby Owens]

Well, part of the experience that you write about is not. It's not an affair with someone else, but it's a close relationship you have with another man during the marriage and what that does to. To you, to him, to everybody involved. And you take us like, literally laying on a bed. Like, I feel like I was. I'm like, why am I living Carrie Verity's life, Carrie Dougherty's life? And like, I'm like, literally in bed with her right now. And so it was awesome. I loved it because, of course, it's not my life. You know what I mean? That's why we read, right? It's like, oh, my gosh, we get to come around with all these people whose lives you wonder about. How was that whole experience? Do you feel like now that you wrote about, well, maybe just explain your relationship.

[Carrie Dougherty]

So it started off as a friendship. And the character who I call Beau in the book is really a mirror to me of my unawakened creative life. He's a musician, he's an artist, he's moody, he sings about painful things. And I think I was so enamored by these qualities and skill sets. I wanted to be moody and alchemize my pain into something beautiful. And I was working and building the brand. And I had always wanted to be a writer, but over the course of my life, I just pushed that creative life aside, Pushed that creative life aside. And then when I met Beau, it did just awaken something in me that I wanted. And at first I didn't realize that he symbolized that to me. So that the relationship really came from me wanting more of that. And you see in the book, it really chronicles the returning of myself and the awakening of my own creativity. But for a while, it was very confusing to me.

[Zibby Owens]

Well, I really appreciate your sharing it. I mean, there's a lot of stuff in the book that people don't necessarily feel comfortable revealing. And that's what makes it so good and so like, oh, my gosh, you know, it's. And it's important, right? I bet you worked through so much stuff.

[Carrie Dougherty]

So much. It was so healing. For me, honestly, this book was. It took me three years to write it, and it felt like I was on an archaeology dig into my own mind and heart and figuring out why I was the way I was. And I think that's the gift of writing a memoir. And for me, I kept thinking about, I kept pushing myself, what am I not saying that needs to be to be said? And in order for me to be that honest, I did have to disassociate that there might be consequences from it. Even my editor, I would say, like in this scene, the character, she's like Carrie, that is not a character. That is your mother in law. And she is going to read the book. And so, yes, so that's been the journey of excavating my own truths while also knowing that now this is a public book that will be on bookshelves for people to read.

[Zibby Owens]

So when you were dealing with the launch of Faraday, when you were driving around, scorching in the sun in the back of like open trail, you know, moving trucks with clothing racks and all of that, you were putting in your heart and soul. And all your time, you're literally sleeping in the office. You're just like, this was your whole life. And it wasn't your dream, it was your husband's dream. And you were like, I'm going to take all my other professional goals and my own sort of inner longing and path, and I'm just gonna put it right here because I'm in it. I'm like wholeheartedly in it with him and them and a part of it. And yet as things took off, because perhaps it wasn't your dream originally, you got a little bit sidelined and maybe not your opinions weren't taken as into account. And like, that felt very hurtful. Like, as a reader, how did that feel to you? It felt hurtful.

[Carrie Dougherty]

And also, I understand. I mean, this is my husband. The brand is my husband and his twin brother's childhood dream. And this is my dream. And I am so grateful that I got to. You know, I love Faraday. I'm still an active part of Farity. It's my first baby. And also I have so much more compassion and adoration for what they created. Now that I've created something on my own, too, that I can feel that embodied sense of pride of what it means to take your dreams and see it come true. And I think part of my hurt in starting the company and maybe not feeling as acknowledged is because I had something inside of me that I was not pursuing. And now that I've pursued it, I feel like it's really, like, I have so much more compassion.

[Jess H. Gutierrez]

Hmm.

[Zibby Owens]

So now, like, it's off the list and you're back in the van?

[Carrie Dougherty]

I'm not fully back in the van, but yeah.

[Zibby Owens]

Was it hard to get started?

[Carrie Dougherty]

It was so easy to write. And so when it came time, I had hundreds of pages of just writing. I didn't know what it was, but I knew I had essays on mothering and motherhood and entrepreneurship and marriage, longing, creativity. When I was on my book tour for my kids book, a friend brought her friend, and that friend happened to be an agent, and I told her I had some adult work, and she said, send it to me. And I sent it to her. And she didn't respond for seven months. And I thought, well, blew that one. And then eventually she came back around and said, I do think there's something here. Let's slowly work on a proposal. And so over the course of three and a half years, it came to

[Zibby Owens]

life, and that's when it was called the Selfish Wife.

[Carrie Dougherty]

The selfish Wife.

[Zibby Owens]

Yes. Don't you think selfish is better? Yeah.

[Jess H. Gutierrez]

Yeah.

[Zibby Owens]

We all agree. Excellent. There's one thing about, you know, being our own hero and fulfilling our own needs and not worrying about hurting people. But then at the same time, you don't want to, like, unnecessarily hurt anybody. Like, nobody wants to hurt somebody on purpose. So how do you. And I'm not saying there's an answer to this. Like, stay true to what you believe you need deep down with the least collateral damage possible. Or should that not even be a goal?

[Carrie Dougherty]

I think it's needing to be acutely aware of how things feel in your body and if things are aligned and if it feels aligned, of course we have to consider other people's experiences and feelings. My favorite quote, and I open the book with, is therapist Prentice Hemphill, who states, the self is not an individual, so the self is not just the ego and just me. I understand that I am who I am because of who we all are. The saying in Ubuntu, we are all deeply connected and at the same time, me being the best version of myself, I do believe will benefit the people around me. It's just math. If I am ensuring that I'm putting spoonfuls of nourishment, 10 spoonfuls of nourishment into my body, I'm going to be able to give ten spoonfuls of nourishment out. And I think what we have found is so many women just give, give, give, give and there's nothing left for themselves. And that too has come consequences that has consequences for other young women looking up and seeing what it means to have a mom that is completely self martyring. It's. We have to believe in an equanimity of if I am whole and full, I am going to be able to be a better service to you as well.

[Zibby Owens]

Now that you're in the writing groove, are you like, okay, like, what is. What is next? What is like, do you want another project?

[Jess H. Gutierrez]

You.

[Zibby Owens]

Are you done with this? Are you like, this is my story and I told it in as much heartbreaking granular detail as humanly possible.

[Carrie Dougherty]

I.

[Zibby Owens]

So I'm done.

[Carrie Dougherty]

I cannot wait to write another book. I just can't wait.

[Zibby Owens]

Well, Carrie, thank you so much. This is so fun. Thank you so much for having me. Today's episode is sponsored by Quince. Summer always makes me rethink what I'm reaching for every day. Lighter fabrics, better materials. Pieces that just feel good the moment you put them on and look effortless. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high quality essentials. Think breathable linen, soft, organic cotton, washable silk, but without the luxury markup. It's that rare balance where everything feels elevated but still easy. Quince has beautiful everyday pieces like 100% European linen pants, dress dresses and tops with styles starting at $32. Their denim is soft and easy to wear. I wear my jean jacket all the time. And their organic cotton sweaters are perfect for layering on cool summer nights. Everything at Quint is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen. So you're paying for quality, not brand markup. And it's not just clothing. Quince has really become a destination for elevated essentials across home, kitchen, bedding and beyond, making it easy to bring a more premium feel into everyday life. In addition to my jean jacket, I recently got A white tank top dress with a beautiful cotton skirt that is absolutely gorgeous and I can't wait for it to be warm enough so I can wear it every day. But it has been a cool spring. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com zibby for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Quincom Zibby for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Zibby

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[Zibby Owens]

Now hear from Jess H. Gutierrez. Welcome to Totally Booked Live. I am really excited to be here today with Jess and H. Isn't it H? Jess H. Gutierrez. I didn't want to forget the middle initial. Who is here from Arkansas? So big round of applause.

[Jess H. Gutierrez]

Yay. Thank you.

[Zibby Owens]

Show of hands, who's been to Arkansas? Oh great. Okay, there's someone. Well, you will feel like you have been to Arkansas after you read this book. So maybe you don't even need to go. But before you talk about what it's about, let me just say that I have never. I don't think I've ever laughed so hard as reading this book. I read it starts to finish on an airplane and I was embarrassing myself, like hysterical. My husband kept being like, what is going on? You are so funny.

[Jess H. Gutierrez]

Thank you so much.

[Zibby Owens]

So just know if you ever need a laugh, pick this one up.

[Jess H. Gutierrez]

Thank you. Yay. I made you laugh.

[Zibby Owens]

Okay, you made me laugh. You make lots of people laugh. Tell everybody what the book is about.

[Jess H. Gutierrez]

Okay, so adulting for amateurs is about. It's kind of a story about you reach an age, right? You always think you're gonna reach an age when you think you're an adult. And I always thought there would be a moment where I was, this is it. I have three kids, I got married, I have a big girl job. All of the things and kind of the theme that runs through it is I've never had that moment where I'm like, I have fully arrived. I have it all figured out. I'm there, you know, I've never. There's supposed to be a coming of age, you know, and I should be past that age. So it's kind of just about being messy and that I think that most of us are. I might be messier than a lot of people, but I think that we are all just playing the best version of an adult that we can, you know. And I asked my mom, who. I'm not allowed to tell her age, but it's 65. And I said, do you feel. And she said, well, I have a 43 year old daughter. I'm certainly an adult. But she's like, I have nothing figured out. So it's kind of that I just. I feel really okay about it, though. So that's kind of the theme of the book.

[Zibby Owens]

Yesterday, my daughter was describing a. A woman that she was doing some class with or something, and she said, well, she's like a young person, but she's in a really, you know, she's in an old person's body because she's like 80. And I was like, honey, everybody is a young person in an old person's body. Then she was like, well, not Mimi, you know, my mom. But anyway, well.

[Jess H. Gutierrez]

And how many of us are still calling our moms for things that, you know, like, I'll call my mom for advice that I probably know better than she does. And I'm like, this is not grown up stuff. I wrote a product of genetics and day drinking, and that got published a couple of years ago, but I wasn't done. I'm a story writer through and through and, you know, essays. I take shortcuts because I write 2,000 words at a time. And so I realized when I was writing my first book that I had so many more stories, but they didn't really go in with the theme of growing up so much as kind of having arrived, but not having arrived, you know, So I just kept going. You know, we were editing my first book and I thought, I have so many more. One time at Bandcamp Stories. And so I just kind of Kept going. So that was the journey. And by the time we were finished editing my first book, I told my editor, surprise, there's a whole nother one. And so that's how this book came to be. And I still can't believe they're letting me do this. All of it. I don't belong in this space. But thank you for the invitation.

[Zibby Owens]

So, yeah, you start out by talking about things that everyone of a certain age, our general age, would remember and the sort of indignities of not even having some of those things before. Like what we used to have to do, like twirling the tape on a cassette tape, or just little moments that like, everyone's going to be like, oh, yeah. I mean, I guess a slightly younger audience is not going to know what we're talking about. But it's still really funny. And you have some. So many examples that I sat there thinking, like, how does she even remember all those things from before? Like, how did you do that? Did you research? Or do you just have like an amazing memory?

[Jess H. Gutierrez]

Well, I do not have an amazing memory. I. Absolutely not. But I think as I got into something and I would look something up, be like, what was that Care Bear's name? Then I would get into something else and it just kind of like, which is not important information. If I got rid of all the Care Bears names in my head, I'd have so much room for useful things. But it just kind of, you know, collected on each other. And I would say to someone around my age, which I feel like is a 10 year range before and after, you know, and I'd say, you remember this? And they're like, but do you remember this? And I'd be like, oh my gosh. And it's just like this whole rabbit hole of fun stuff. And I was actually like, you know, doing the thing, acting like I was talking on the phone the other day and my kids were like. And I was like, oh, like, you know, I'm like, what even is this? You know, but it's so funny, just like so many references that we all share. So this is a story about my life, but it's so ingrained in the pop culture and the culture of growing up as a early 80s 90s kid that I feel like it's relatable in that way. So you don't have to care about my life story because it's a pretty normal life story, right? But it's the way I looked at those stories, I think in the way that I told those stories, that that makes Them. Like, people remember those moments in time. So I think that that's kind of what makes it fun. It's harder when you're 19, 20 years old and you're poor and, like, you feel judged and you feel like you have not arrived at any place yet. You know, it's still hard sometimes when you're 43. But I also care less what other people think. And that is the most delicious thing to have ever happened in my life. To be able to go sit at a pool and. And be in whatever I want and just be like, here I am. You know, that's power. That feels good. And I think that that might be the best version of adulting that I have figured out so far.

[Zibby Owens]

And do you think that just comes with age, or do you think that the experiences you've lived led you there?

[Jess H. Gutierrez]

I think. I hope it comes with age. But I also think that, you know, probably all of the embarrassing things and the being broke and the, you know, heartbreaks and all of those things, I think eventually you do arrive at that, you know, And I think it's different ages for different people, and it looks different for different. But finally, being okay with your, like, dumpster fire, eating pizza like a raccoon out of a dumpster self feels kind of good, you know, like, it's really empowering. And I think that, yeah, my experience. But I do think that, like, people find their moment. I just remember always feeling like, on camera, nobody was filming me. Okay, no, I was not, because everybody else was just worried about themselves. But it felt very, like, very naked to everyone and, like, very, like I said, not arrived. Not figuring it out. None of the things that I thought were important, you know, that's hard. It's hard being, like, a young woman. It's hard. It's hard being a young person. But, you know, like, you're sad. You feel under a lens. And it's probably a lens we put on ourselves, too. Like, society obviously helps, but, like, I was hard on myself, you know, and now I'm just like, girl, not the best Wednesday, but you tried. You know, like, we ordered a lot of pizza this week, and that sucks. But also, like, we made it to Saturday, and that doesn't suck.

[Zibby Owens]

You also do such a funny, reel and gritty, detailed description of your marriage and what that is like behind the curtain and what it's like being married to a woman, what it's like dealing with kids. I mean, all of the stuff. Talk a little about how much. How did you decide what to reveal, what not to Reveal all of that.

[Jess H. Gutierrez]

Well, what's funny is I'm obviously not a private person, but my wife is a very private person. She's a fire captain in North Carolina, Arkansas. We're lesbian like this. We are a bit of an anomaly where we live. And she, you know, quiet and I'm not. And so I'm really careful about, you know, I don't use your name, I don't use our kids names. I mean, our people obviously know. But I, in the beginning when I was writing stories, I would say, is this story okay? Is this story okay? Is this story okay? And she finally told me, listen, none of these are okay, but you're going to write them. And she just trusts me to be as respectful as her as possible. And so I try to do that with all of my stories because when I say memoir, this is not like a real in depth dive of like, it's funny stories. So my goal is kind of to make myself the joke in all of the stories because it's funny. So like anything that happens with my spouse, not in real life, can we write. It's not always my fault. But in the book, like, I'm the funny one. I'm the one that messed up. I'm the one that has contacts on my boobs when we're trying to like get frisky in the eight minutes that we have. And I think that like the fact that we are a queer couple living in Arkansas, I think that people sometimes don't know what that looks like. And so disappointingly, we are the most boring, vanilla human beings alive. I mean, you know, and I think that when people read their story, they're like, oh my God, it's just like me and my husband, like, we're not, you know, it's just like day we're doing the thing, we're feeding the kids, we're doing the jobs and we're in love like crazy and all the things. But like being les, that is the least interesting part about us. And you know, I mean, I just think that that always kind of surprises people because the stories are the exact story that someone else would write in a relationship that looks more based on like the traditional model. So they're like, oh my gosh, it's no different with a woman. I'm like, it is no different the day. It's the same. It looks like the same. Yeah. You know, but yeah, I am very careful. I'm like, I do know when I go too far, I'm like, so this one, she's like, nope, And I'm like, okay, so we do. There is a hard line then. Yes. I'll stay on this side.

[Zibby Owens]

So do her colleagues at the firehouse not actually know she's married to you?

[Jess H. Gutierrez]

They do. Oh, yes. Because I'm a force. They know. And their spouses. It's mostly men that work at her fire department. We still are. They're women in northwest Arkansas firefighters, but very few. And they are glass ceiling ladies. They're amazing. But their wives have all read the book. And since they. And many of the firemen have listened to the audiobook, because it's in the car, and they're like, oh, my God. And Vanessa's like, we're not. We're not doing this, guys. We're not doing this. Yeah, she's really proud of it. But. Yeah, but she's like, oh, my God, Chess.

[Zibby Owens]

Really?

[Jess H. Gutierrez]

I'm like, really? Yeah, Yeah, I gotta.

[Zibby Owens]

Yes.

[Jess H. Gutierrez]

Sorry. Kind of.

[Zibby Owens]

So are you continuing to crank out content? Do you have a whole nother one ready to go now?

[Jess H. Gutierrez]

I do. I always have another one ready to go. Yeah, Like, I'm a. Someone called me prolific one time, which was such a compliment, but for me, I'm just like. I'm just. I just keep going. Like, it's how it works in my brain. I just keep writing. I love it. So I have a fire that, like, when I feel like I have to write something, I'm gonna write it on a napkin or a receipt. Like, I've loved it forever, so. Yeah.

[Zibby Owens]

So there's no, like, writing practice where you.

[Jess H. Gutierrez]

No, no. I mean, my full time job. I'm a respiratory therapist that specializes in neonates and I teach at a community college. Like, writing is not my real life, you know, like, this is my secret. Like my little thing that I do for me that is just really I love so much, you know, this has been my passion since I was little, so. Yeah, there's always another one.

[Zibby Owens]

I think it's impossible not to root for you after reading this book.

[Jess H. Gutierrez]

Thank you.

[Zibby Owens]

On the last book, which I also, you know, we talked about that at the time, but all of the things that go wrong are so relatable. Maybe the same things haven't happened to us, but nothing is perfect. We all have these moments where, you know, maybe we don't want everybody to see, but these are the things. And that's why it's so funny, because everybody can relate. So, Jess, I just want to say thank you for putting it all out there about yourself so that the rest of us can enjoy it. But also feel a little better about ourselves, so that's nice.

[Jess H. Gutierrez]

Thank you.

[Zibby Owens]

Thank you so much.

[Jess H. Gutierrez]

Thank you.

[Zibby Owens]

Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram, ibbeowens and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.

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