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- [00:00]
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Felix Salmon
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- [01:17]
Zibby Owens
Today's episode is sponsored by Nutrafol. Do you know that feeling when you're brushing your hair and somehow it just looks a little thinner than usual, maybe a little less full? And you're like, what is going on here? Well, Nutrafol supports hair health from within, helping you grow stronger, visibly thicker hair so that those moments happen less often where you're worried about your hair. Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand and it's the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists and by the way, personally by me. This is the brand that I trust. Adding Nutrafol to your daily routine is easy. Order online, no prescription needed, with automated deliveries and free shipping to keep you on track. Plus, with a Nutrafol subscription, you can save up to 20% and get added perks to support your hair health journey. So let your hair be one less thing to worry about. See Visibly Thicker Stronger, faster Growing hair in three to six months with Nutrafol. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you visit nutrafol.com and enter promo code Zibby Z I B b y that's nutrafol.com spelled n u t r a f o l.com promo code ZIBBY Enjoy. Hi, this is Zibby Owens and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zivi, formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books? In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to stay in the know, get insider insights and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbedia.com and follow me on Instagram Ibbeowens Today is a two in one episode with two amazing cookbook authors and divas in their own right, true champions of food, community, entertainment and more. Donna Hay and Adina Sussman Donna Hay is the author of Sunshine, Lemons and Sea Salt A Celebration of Modern Coastal Home Cooking. She is Australia's favorite and most trusted home cook, a household name and international food publishing phenomenon. She is the author of 28 best selling cookbooks which have sold more than 8 million copies worldwide and have been translated into 10 languages. Her award winning television cooking shows have aired in more than 14 countries. With the recent season Danahe coastal celebrations on Disney, which just started to air this April, the Donaghay brand goes beyond the printed page, featuring an impressive digital presence and branded merchandise. Donna adores living near the ocean with her partner and boys and still loves cooking every day. Adina Sessman is the author of the New York Times best selling cookbook, Shabbat Recipes and Rituals From My Table to Yours which was released in September 2023. It was the follow up to Sababa, which was a Best of Fall 2019 Cookbook According to the New York Times, Bon Appetit and Food and Wine. The co author of 15 cookbooks, Adina's three most recent collaborations, including Cravings and Hungry for More with Chrissy Teigen, were New York Times bestsellers. A lifelong visitor to Israel who has been writing about that country's food culture for almost 20 years, Adina lives, cooks and writes in Tel Aviv, where she lives in the shadow of that city's Carmel Market with her husband Jay Shofet. First up, we have Donna Hay. Welcome Donna. Thank you so much for coming on Totally Booked to talk about your panel. Beautiful book Sunshine, Lemons and Sea Salt. A Celebration of Modern Coastal Home Cooking. So beautiful.
- [05:16]
Donna Hay
Thanks Siby. Thanks for having me on.
- [05:18]
Zibby Owens
Oh, it's my pleasure. I've had your work in my home I've been looking at your name, I feel like, for years, and I couldn't be more excited to see you're an actual person and not just, you know, on my coffee table or wherever the book moves from time to time.
- [05:34]
Donna Hay
Thank you.
- [05:36]
Zibby Owens
So, before we talk about this particular book, just give listeners a little background of you and your career to date and how you became this beloved cookbook author and with the most wonderful visual identity. I feel like I need to shop from your books.
- [05:58]
Donna Hay
Well, I started out at culinary school in Sydney in Australia, and I. I was too scared to become a chef. Was quite, quite shy. So I didn't. I was kind of bit lost to begin with in my career. And then I found a group of food stylists. It's a little bit different in Australia, the way that the kind of food stylist magazine books, structure of photography is set up. So each food stylist is in charge of the props, and then you usually have an assistant that does all the cooking and the prep and the picking of the herbs and things like that. So you start as like a. A foodie person and you, if you want to move into styling, you move that way. So I started assisting lots of food stylers, and I never thought I was a very creative person. My entire family could draw and paint, and it wasn't until I got into food did I realize that that was kind of my canvas, my medium of creativity. So I started writing the odd recipe for Gourmet Traveler and Vogue Entertaining, which was an offshoot of Vogue here in Australia. And I just thought, well, I don't want to do anything else with my life. I just want to do this and freelance World, as you know, even back then was super tough. You know, only the. The good people kind of worked consistently and could make a living out of being freelance. So I put my head down and I just thought, right, well, if I'm. This is all I want to do. So I'm just going to have to make a go of it and be the best that there can be. And I think it was just out of that drive of ambition to stay in the industry that kind of led me to where I am today. I met some really great creative people along the way that really shaped my career, and not in food. I think the most influential people in my career my. A friend that I stumbled into in a student studio was Sabella Court, who was the most amazing interior stylist, but more than that, more like a lifestylist. Her mother collected textiles and took groups of people through Amazing countries to see ancient textiles. She had an amazing effect on my younger years where every detail counted. And I started. I worked in a studio with a collective of photographers in a very, let's say, I don't know, sketchy part of town. The part of town we could afford, maybe in our budget. And I was sitting on the floor working on a big project. It was 8 by 10 Polaroid transfer, where you get the old school Polaroid and you push it into cotton paper. And I was doing a book in this process and it was all on the floor. It was the only way I could see where everything was going was these big transfers. And this lady with a very sharp bob. This sounds like a made up story. This lady with a very sharp bob came past and she was very colorfully dressed, beautifully, but quite flamboyant. And she said, what are you doing? And I said, I'm just working on a project. She said, what's your name? It's Donahay. And I said. She toddled off and I thought, oh, what a strange encounter. She came back a couple of weeks later to find me and she offered me the freelance position as the food editor of Marie Claire magazine in Australia, which was just starting out. I think that was back in the. Let's not count the years. So I was led then by this woman, Jane Rorty, who was the fashion director, who was. Who just shaped my creative brain like my other friends. She wouldn't. She wouldn't let me do what anyone else would do. So we would talk about Easter and I'd say, well, let's just do a feature on chocolate. And she would say to me, oh, Donna, anyone can do chocolate. What are you going to do? So I was really fortunate that I had people.
- [09:57]
Zibby Owens
Wait, what did you do? What did you do instead of chocolate?
- [10:00]
Donna Hay
I cannot. I remember when she came back to me and she said, I said, okay, it's Christmas. We have to line up some stories. She was always traveling because back in the day, those fashion teams were traveling to the most remote, beautiful places, you know, Marrakeshma. So I said to her, jane, we have to lock in some stories before you go. Like, I'm only freelance. And I was traveling a lot as well. And I said, what about Christmas? And she said, oh, yes, Christmas. I've been thinking about that. I'm just back from the cruise show. Lagerfeld did a great job on his cruise collection. I was in Saint Tropez, sweetie, and I'm just seeing white. So I know that, you know, everyone else is doing Christmas Colors, but I think we just do white. I said, well, that's going to be really tough, Jane, because not a lot of Christmas food is white. And she said, oh, those clever Italians, they do that pork, you know, simmered in milk. You'll think of it, sweetie. Anyway, mustache. So she kind of left me with these huge challenges, and at the time, I felt extremely frustrated and. And. And, you know, like a little bit like, oh, this mad woman and fashion that. But she. I guess she really shaped my. She just pulled my brain that there. There has to be a different way. There's a. Maybe there's a better way. And it is so easy to. To fall back on your default. It's safe, it's comfortable. You know, you feel safe styling it that way. So, yeah, just really, really fortunate to have met some brilliant creative minds in my early career. That. And the rest is, you know, a magazine, books, 17 years of the magazine, which was a great run. I always decided that I would go out on top. So after 17 years, we're doing really well. But it was time for the runaway train to pull into the station.
- [11:55]
Zibby Owens
And so we come to this book. Sunshine, lemons, and sea salt. Tell me where this came from, why now, why this? And how did you put it all together? It's so beautiful.
- [12:07]
Donna Hay
Oh, thank you. Well, I live by the harbor in Sydney. I'm very fortunate. But I've never shot at home before because my house was falling down, so it was a bit of an embarrassment. The roof was falling in. We lived like, you know, we would just grab another pasta pot out of the drawer and catch the drips. And to me, I loved it like that because it was super casual and it wasn't so much of a disaster. There was a couple of. So I could entertain people to kick off their shoes, come in, and you would just see people decompress and relax. And that is what entertaining for me is about. Sunday lunch is my favorite time. My friends would come over, everyone would say, oh, I feel so great coming here, and so relaxed. And, you know, that is part of the entertaining kind of vibe. It's not about to sit up straight and stress people out and kind of, you know, I guess what Australians do. So I eventually had to renovate my house because the roof was falling. This is too much truth. I'm such a truthful person. So I decided to flip the kitchen and to make it so that the view was closer to the kitchen, because that's where everyone is anyway. You know, I'm usually. I'm not a cook Ahead kind of person. I'm busy, so it's not like I've got everything done by the time my friends arrive. So I put the kitchen closer to the view and I thought, well, if I have to film at home, then this is probably the right position for it to be in. And then it just naturally kind of occurred to me that it's so pretty here and the light's so beautiful, that why didn't I just do my first book from home? So I. Not only did I do a book, I signed up for a series with Disney, which launched last week, which is also photographed at home. Filmed at home and in my surroundings here. So it just. I don't know, I felt comfortable, really comfortable here. I only filmed with the really small crew, so it just felt like the right time for me, I guess, the right extension. And I went into do a book that was really personal. So, you know how I entertain at home, from, you know, my breakfast cookies to things that I cook, my boys, the halloumi eggs. And so it really is a collection of sunny, fun things to cook, things that I like to cook at home. And then there's the menu section, because I think, you know, some of the most vivid memories people have of food are actually food they've shared with their friends. And there's something really special about cooking for your friends. And not just the cooking, but I guess the connection and catching up and just having great stories, good times, you know, good laughs. A bit of a decompress on what the world is today.
- [14:51]
Zibby Owens
Well, it is no surprise to me that your friends feel immediately relaxed coming into your home, because I get that vibe from you. Even just talking to you for a few minutes, I'm like, life is full of sunshine. Why don't we all gather more? This sounds so lovely. Does it? You know, let's all cook together. Just you get back to what's really important in life. Right. And you do it, of course, with such beautiful accoutrements, the plates and the. Just every. The napkin, everything is just perfection. Not overdone, not overly fussy, just like classy, elegant, beautiful and happy.
- [15:29]
Donna Hay
Thank you. Happy, yes. Thank you. That's really nice of you to say. I think one of the turning points in entertaining for home is that I pulled out of my prop room all of my favorite things and put them into high rotation because I couldn't keep them. I don't know what I was keeping them for. I photographed them and yes, I love them and I never wanted them to be chipped, but then I just Thought, this is a little bit insane. I'm going to bring all of my special things and all of the things that I truly love home and, you know, just start using them when I entertain. Or even every day, you know, if I grab a platter to put a salad on for dinner, I'll grab something that is one of my faves. I think that's made a huge difference to how I style at home as well, or just how I live at home. I just had that kind of, as we call it, the good cupboard. That's not touching.
- [16:22]
Adina Sussman
Well, you.
- [16:23]
Zibby Owens
You inspired me because having read the book yesterday, we were just having a few people over for brunch, and I thought I was going to find something in a drawer, and I came across these beautiful plates that my grandmother gave me. Like, why not? Why not use these beautiful plates with sort of, like, china scalloped edges with a little hole? And like, they're so delicate. I was like, it's not like my kids are going to break them. They're like actual people now. Yeah, we can put them on the table and just enjoy. And so what that we hand wash, like, we hand wash a lot of the time anyway. Anyway, it just, like, totally set the scene and imbued it with meaning. And I wouldn't have done that had I not just looked through and read this beautiful display of your own stuff. So you inspired our. I'll have to send you a picture
- [17:10]
Donna Hay
that makes me feel so happy. You have to. That's amazing. That's so amazing. And I think, you know, as you said, you've got your grandmother's plates. The other thing that I tried to do in this book is some styling tips. So taking things that my grandmother had given me. I have a soup terrain, which I am never going to decant soup into. I have some sauce boats and gravy boats. And as much as they're pretty, they've been in the back of the cupboard forever. But those kind of things just make great vases as well. So as much as you think, oh, I can't do this whole tablescaping vibe, I don't have anything. And it's all too much trouble. If you just head into your garden or down to the store, you can buy, you know, just a few simple things. You don't have to buy seven bunches to make it look like some grand, you know, expose. And even I just go into the garden, even cut some beautiful colored leaves and put them in. And so now my grandmother's sauce boat, gravy boat and soup Terrain are. Are on high rotation. I would show you the soup train, but some of the flowers had actually died out of the corner. Needs replanting. But, you know, when you just go and buy little seedlings, we have, like, shops that just sell little seedlings with plants in it. I got those a couple of weeks ago. And, you know, it lasts so longer than cut flowers. So I'm often just potting in this big soup train. Just some random little potted flowers that I get for, you know, $10 a little pot, easy. So cute.
- [18:38]
Zibby Owens
Oh, I love it, Donna. Thank you. I mean, it's not just recipes. It's lifestyle, and it's. It's not too complicated. It's just great.
- [18:47]
Donna Hay
It's.
- [18:48]
Zibby Owens
This whole book is right up my alley. I'm so excited about it and can't wait for everybody to devour it the same as I did.
- [18:57]
Donna Hay
Yeah, well, there's lots of very happy recipes in there, so hopefully everyone will find something to put in their rotation and, you know, add little sunshine to their lives. Some really fast things that you can put for a weeknight dinner. Can I just show you this on my rotation?
- [19:16]
Zibby Owens
Beautiful.
- [19:17]
Donna Hay
This is, like, I have boys, many boys. So this is a combination of everything they love. It's garlic bread on the bottom, harissa chicken, and feta with a little bit of honey. So it's just like every hit point all in the oven, all together. How old are your boys?
- [19:34]
Zibby Owens
How old are your boys?
- [19:36]
Donna Hay
They're fried. They range in our little blended family from 11 to 23. Four of them always hungry. Starving, as a matter of fact. Can you imagine that in my house, starving?
- [19:49]
Zibby Owens
They are very lucky. They are very, very lucky to have you. All right, well, congratulations, Donna. Truly appreciate it.
- [19:57]
Donna Hay
Thank you. Thank you.
- [19:58]
Adina Sussman
Thank you.
- [19:59]
Donna Hay
Thanks for the chat. Okay, bye. Bye. Bye.
- [20:02]
Zibby Owens
Today's episode is sponsored by Wayfair. After the fire in the Palisades, we had to redo our entire outside area. And we found the best stuff on Wayfair. We found adorable throw pillows that looked fabulous. We found one round carpet, one square carpet. We found coffee tables and all sorts of things that made our outside feel like home again. Wayfair is amazing because it has everything you could possibly need, and it's so easy to find. Wayfair made it so simple for us to narrow it down to what we wanted for our style and budget. It also features reviews, filters, and visual tools that help us find the right fit. Every style, every outdoor space. Whether your vibe is modern, coastal, farmhouse, or eclectic, Wayfair has the options you need to help you create an outdoor space that's uniquely yours and everything is in one place from outdoor seating and grills to storage, patio lighting and rugs and decor, which is what we got. Wayfair is your one stop shop for Home Plus. You can trust in the delivery, installation and assembly services are available for a truly seamless experience. It was so easy for us to order and receive all of our items. Plus over 20 million verified 5 star reviews helped me make the right call. Real customers, real feedback and real homes. You can also shop with Wayfair Verified. Your shortcut to the good stuff. Their team of product specialists vets everything by hand using a 10 point quality inspection so you know you're getting a quality piece no matter your budget. Get prepped for patio seating season for way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair every style every Home Wayfair Every Style Every Home Today's episode
- [21:54]
Whatnot Sponsor
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- [22:31]
Zibby Owens
My steals included a Jelly cat Heart for $5.38 and Jelly Cat Toasty Marshmallows for $9.89. Not to mention Anito for $6.26.
- [22:43]
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- [23:23]
Zibby Owens
Today's episode is sponsored by Quints. As you guys know, I am obsessed with Quints. I'VE been talking about them for a while because I love the quality of the clothes, the fit, the price, really everything about it. My two latest finds, which I'm sure you'll see me wearing on Instagram, are this adorable white dress. It goes to the ankle basically and has a tank top on top. And I also got a jean jacket from Quince and I plan on wearing them together all summer long and I'm just super excited about it. Quince has always been my go to, but now the fabrics just feel elevated, the fits are so flattering. Everything just works and I don't have to overthink it. Quince uses premium materials like 100% European linen, organic cotton and ultra soft denim. Maybe that's why I like it all so much. Their lightweight linen pants and dresses and tops start at $30 and are effortless, breathable and easy to wear on repeat. Everything at quints is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. It's amazing. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for quality and craftsmanship, not brand markup. Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to Quince.com Zivi for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com Zivi for free Shipping and 365 day returns. Gwens.com Zibby next. Here's Adina Sessman.
- [24:53]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
Welcome, Adina.
- [24:54]
Adina Sussman
Thank you. It's so nice to be here. Other than seeing you and hugging you in Canada a couple of years ago, we really haven't had a chance to hang out in person. So nice to be here.
- [25:03]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
So nice to have you.
- [25:04]
Adina Sussman
Okay.
- [25:05]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
Congratulations.
- [25:05]
Adina Sussman
Thank you.
- [25:06]
Zibby Owens
You're on tour for Zariz.
- [25:08]
Adina Sussman
I'm on tour for Zariz, which means quick in Hebrew. It's my third solo cookbook and just feels so excited. I can't believe I. I made it out of Israel and I'm here to, like, see all the readers and the cooks and all the people and I'm super pumped for it all.
- [25:24]
Zibby Owens
So how.
- [25:26]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
How did that. I mean, I was just saying I recently interviewed someone who couldn't get out.
- [25:30]
Adina Sussman
Yeah.
- [25:30]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
Is it just touch and go? How do you feel about it? Like, does everybody feel life is sort
- [25:34]
Adina Sussman
of on pause a little bit? Well, you know, things. There are ceasefires in place right now and things are calm right now, relatively speaking. So until a week before I left, it was unclear whether you Never knew what was going to happen. But then gradually it became clear that things were normal and flights were operating and I was ready to tether my suitcase to my ankle and swim to Athens to get out. So whatever it took. But I was able to just fly and make it to New York. And New York is my former home and still my home. So it's been really a great week being here.
- [26:07]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
How do you live with that amount of uncertainty? I know an entire country is doing it. You're not alone.
- [26:13]
Adina Sussman
But you personally, like, I think I sort of. I sort of adapt the same adage I do in life. I like to either be in control or not in control. I don't like the middle. So, like what I can control, I try to. And then like when there's a war going on or things that are beyond my purview, I just kind of try to submit and live my life to the best of its ability and. But it's definitely not. It's unusual. You know, I was not there on October 7th. I was actually on book tour for my last book, Shabbat, only two and a half years ago. It's hard to believe how much has changed. And thank you for everything you've done since October 7th. And yeah, I got back in the middle of the war and I was not there last June. So here was my. This was my hazing ritual, my initiation. And it's definitely running into your safe room. We're so lucky to have one. You know, it makes you both uncertain and also really appreciative of everything that you have. Your health, your life, your family, your friends. So, you know, we're just hoping for better times.
- [27:14]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
And of course you're now feeding us all through this whole thing, which is fabulous.
- [27:18]
Adina Sussman
I mean, the first thing that I. It's so funny because I wrote this book in the specter of October 7th. I got back to Israel and I had a book contract and I sort of realized that I needed to do simple cooking for complicated times. And the first thing I started doing this time when the war broke out was cooking. I just could not stop cooking. And I haven't stopped. And that's how I cope. That's how I self therapize, that's how I soothe others, it's how I show love. And also that is. That is a way of controlling my environment. So cooking for me is always like the place that I go to feel safe, to feel happy, to provide joy. And it's no different. And you know, I feel like the book, it's the book that I need. So I'm hoping it's the book that other people need right now.
- [28:03]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
Well, you can tell throughout the book, you make references to this sort of lack of control. These are the times, and don't we need food? And it's. It resonates so much. I feel like.
- [28:12]
Adina Sussman
Yeah. And, you know, and it's. It's not just my situation. People all over the world are in different situations and times, and everyone, I think, is cooking more simply, regardless of where you are. And there's a lot in the world that is unsure right now, you know, And I think of the kitchen as a place where we can. I call it, you know, the kitchen island is my kitchen. Is my island of calm.
- [28:32]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
Yes.
- [28:33]
Adina Sussman
So, yeah. And. But it's. Yeah, it's been great to start seeing people. You know, the book came out yesterday. People are already posting pictures of the recipes, which is so amazing. I'm gonna be away for six weeks, and, you know, so I'm not gonna be cooking. I'm gonna be doing a lot of cooking demonstrations. But it's fun to see people actually making the food.
- [28:51]
Zibby Owens
I mean, I have a kitchen. You can just go down and whip yourself something up.
- [28:54]
Adina Sussman
Don't ask me twice. You never know. I might just show up sometime.
- [28:58]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
Yeah. Like, not totally kidding.
- [28:59]
Adina Sussman
I mean, now, but, you know, we'll definitely cook together. Okay. It's in the cards for sure. Amazing.
- [29:04]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
You mentioned in this book that you limited yourself to the number of ingredients, and you're like, no shame on, like, three ingredients, but I'm going to do 10. But I'm not including what. Olive oil, salt and pepper.
- [29:15]
Adina Sussman
Olive oil, salt, pepper, and lemons. Like, to me, those are just. In my Israeli kitchen, those are. Those flow like. Like tap water. You know, olive oil is like our tap water. So those I gave myself as free ingredients. But, yeah, I really limited. You know, I realized that simple cooking is actually really complicated. To create an easy recipe is harder than just being able to throw a million spices and herbs and ingredients into something and use nine pots and pan. You know, every single ingredient and technique and implement had to have a lot of impact to make the cut for this book. So I sort of was likening it to, like, the Coco Chanel adage of getting dressed, like, put everything on and then take off two accessories. So I was really. I really, like, put myself to the fire every time. Like, is this spice necessary? Do you need this? Do you need to sear this meat? What? You know, all the different steps. And really, I stripped everything kind of down to the studs and. But without sacrificing, like all the sensory pleasures of cooking. I still want. I know that I still want to chop an onion, I still want to stir. I still want to have the aromas of the kitchen, you know, so it's like a real fine balance where it's still real cooking but just much more simple.
- [30:29]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
Does it still taste as good with your ingredients or do you sacrifice a little taste?
- [30:33]
Adina Sussman
I mean, that was my. The testing and the developing of the recipes is really where the hard work comes in, you know, every time, like making sure you get that flavor punch. You know, I think that the recipes are really tasty and flavorful.
- [30:46]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
I mean, I'm not saying that you put a cook out with bad recipes.
- [30:49]
Adina Sussman
No, but I know what you mean. No, for sure.
- [30:51]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
Listen, would two extra spices, like, make it an A plus?
- [30:54]
Adina Sussman
Maybe. But sometimes, you know, what I've realized is that there's a certain spice that's like the star even of a blend that kind of evokes like I made like a pull apart Persian stew, like a beef stew. And, you know, Persian food is my favorite. It's very elaborate and beautiful and has a lot of spices and different things in it. And I really worked on that recipe to make sure that it evoked that gourmet sabzi, which is the original dish that I love, with certain herbs and pomegranate molasses and the Persian lime, or a regular lime and lime zest if you don't have a Persian lime. So I think I got got there, but it's really up to the cooks to decide. That's what I always say. People are like, oh, so you're a good cook? I'm like, it's not up to me, it's up to you. I make the food, you determine it. Cookbooks are like novels. They have an arc, they have a story arc. They have a beginning, middle, and end. There should be some resolution. Should feel like you've had an experience. You know, when you've read through the book and cooked through the book. And that's kind of how I approach. Those are the books I like to read and cook from. And those are the kind of books I try to write.
- [31:54]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
You also did that with your introduction of your grandchildren as characters.
- [31:58]
Adina Sussman
Yeah.
- [31:59]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
So cute. And you talk about them and then you have pictures of them in the beginning. Yeah, maybe one throughout, and then at the end you have another one and it's like, oh, we've been through the journey with your family.
- [32:08]
Adina Sussman
Yeah. I mean, I Never thought of myself as like, that person who would have, you know, lifestyle photos in their books like that. But I am really eager to show also the humanity of Israeli people and Jewish people in this time and in my books. And I'm so fortunate that I married my husband and got this instant family. I say I went from single to softa. I got married at 45 and became a grandma at 46 because my stepdaughter Shani had had two, had a kid, and now is having her third kid.
- [32:35]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
Oh, my gosh.
- [32:35]
Adina Sussman
And so that's been beautiful. And there's also a photo of my father and stepmom who made aliyah, moved to Israel four years ago. So my family life has gotten really rich. And it's something that really definitely drives me and impacts the way I cook and the way I think about food.
- [32:50]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
So how did you have to adapt your life, going from being single to being married and a grandparent and a stepmother and all of it? That's a big shift.
- [32:59]
Zibby Owens
Yeah.
- [32:59]
Adina Sussman
I mean, family takes more time in my life in a positive way. And also just decisions about, you know, I was a single girl for decades and was happy, and I had made my peace with that. And then I met my person and moved far around the world. And, you know, when you're. When you're on your own, the thought about where you're going to move is, like, completely your decision. And, you know, now, like, you know, there's so many people around me who are of such dear value to me that, like, we're not going anywhere, you know, and the thought of, like, being able to just leave, and also that's the way that I established my kitchen as just really a center place for my family. I love having the kids and the grandkids over and cooking for everybody, and it's really meaningful. It's not that I didn't cook for people in New York, but somehow, like, building a home with my husband and having everyone come is just really, really special.
- [33:52]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
Wait, so how did you meet? How did you meet?
- [33:55]
Adina Sussman
I met Jay in New York. He was. He's been living in Israel for 40 years. He's from upstate New York, and he was here on a business trip, and a friend set us up. And I say I moved to Israel for love and stayed for the food. And I still in love with my husband and I, and I'm still in love with Israeli food and so much that has contributed to my life. You know, until I moved to Israel, I was essentially a cookbook co author. I was co authoring books with celebrities and more. A behind the scenes person. And through my work with Chrissy Teigen, I wrote three books with her. I got a little bit better known, but at the same time, I met Chrissy and my husband within a month of each other. I say it was a great month for blind dates. And really my whole world changed in that time. And I was so fortunate to write the cookbook proposal for Sababa, my first book, and that came out in 2019. And here we are six years later on book three. It's really crazy.
- [34:46]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
Oh my gosh.
- [34:46]
Adina Sussman
I'm a late bloomer for sure.
- [34:50]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
What were you doing? I know you said you were ghostwriting, but the years before, how did you develop the love of cooking? And I know we've talked about some of this in our previous episode, but here we are in person.
- [34:59]
Adina Sussman
Yeah, I mean, I lived in Israel for five years after college. I worked in television production. I always had a dream of working in food, but I just didn't know what that looked like back then. It was, you know, food. You know, there were very few jobs working in food unless you wanted to work on the line at a restaurant. And I always knew I wanted to work at the juncture of publishing and cooking. And food media really opened up around the time that I was really thinking about doing this seriously. I managed to get a job at Gourmet magazine where I worked for three years as a marketing copywriter. Met a lot of people, and Ruth Reichl gave me an assignment before I left the magazine about Yemenite Israeli cooking. And that was my first big freelance assignment. And from there I went to culinary school. And really early on, just sort of realized that cookbooks were something that I loved and I thought I could be good at doing, you know, And I, through Melissa Clark, I sort of discovered that cookbook co authoring was a job, you know, until the light bulb went off. I like to collaborate. I love to learn from other people. I love to help other. I always say that if I didn't do what I did, I'd be someone's executive assistant. Like, I love to, like, dot the I's and cross the t's for other people and get things done.
- [36:09]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
I mean, I have some jewelry you can organize here.
- [36:11]
Adina Sussman
Let's do it. Yeah. So. And then from there I just wrote a lot of books. In a few years, when I really found the thing I love doing, it came very naturally and I got a lot of work in that area. And several of the four of the books I co authored became new York Times bestsellers. And so when I was able to write the proposal for Sababa, I had kind of taught myself how to write a cookbook by writing them with other people. And I was ready, which was sort of something I didn't really realize that I was doing. You know, and then the time came and I knew how to write it, and I didn't have a co author. I am my own co author.
- [36:43]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
Yeah, but you had, like, little training wheels.
- [36:45]
Adina Sussman
Lots of training wheels. And I worked with amazing people. I learned from every author that I work with. Every. I think every person, like, every person's cooking is like a language unto itself. And after you cook 100 recipes with someone, like, you know their lexicon, like, inside and out. And, you know, I always say you cook first and write later. So. So I always do the recipes with someone or even myself. And then the narrative comes from the cooking. Every book has sort of its own cadence and collection of ideas and recipes. And then I write the introduction last. Oh, interesting, because I've kind of. I collect all the data and realize sort of certain themes and things sometimes turn out really differently from where I began. And then I write the beginning of the book.
- [37:32]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
So how important, and this is probably a stupid question, how important are the actual ingredients? Because I'm sure you have access to fabulous stuff. And when you go to Europe, it's like, oh, my gosh, everything is so much better.
- [37:45]
Adina Sussman
Will my dish taste when you're ordering from Instacart? Yes, I think so. I mean, my recipes are really geared towards home cooks and home cook ingredients. And I also. All of my recipes are tested by multiple home cooks in the United States. And, you know, they tell me if they have trouble finding ingredients or if things lack flavor, you know, and then I make adjustments for that, and also I provide substitutions. So, like, if you can't find things, you know. But also in the front of the book, there's a little primer to how to make a lot of the staples for the Israeli pantry. So if you can't find them, you can make them. And every one of my books has that section in Sababa. That section was more elaborately photographed and big. But a lot of my cooking books are familiar with those things for me, but I would never want to leave them out because I'm accumulating new people and bringing them into my community. So, like, if you want to learn how to make preserved lemons or labonay or pomegranate molasses or all or a spice blends, they're all in there as well.
- [38:41]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
Do you have like, a gift set with Shabbat Sababa?
- [38:45]
Adina Sussman
And we were just talking about it. A box set?
- [38:48]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
Yeah, box set.
- [38:49]
Adina Sussman
Yeah. I would like to have one.
- [38:50]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
Yeah. It would be such a nice gift.
- [38:53]
Adina Sussman
Yeah. I mean, cookbooks are like, each cookbook is a time capsule of my life and the time that I wrote it, just like any other book. And Sababa was about my acclimation into Israeli culture through the lens of the shook. And Sababa was like Shabbat was like a deeper exploration of all my identities, my cooking identity, my Jewish identity, my Israeli identity, all those things. And then this was sort of this stripping it down and streamlining it, like, doing the cooking I needed to do while having now lived in Israel for almost a decade and sort of my journey, like through the kitchen. So it's. It's really fun to look back at Sababa now and see how. How different I am, you know, and how my cooking has evolved and how my life in Israel has evolved too.
- [39:34]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
And the desserts didn't look like, too decadent, do, you know, like. Yeah, look like. Because I always. I'm like more a dessert than a savory type person. So I always go to the back and look at the desserts of any kind.
- [39:44]
Adina Sussman
Book first.
- [39:45]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
But I mean, they look amazing. Like you have like a sort of spongy chocolate cake.
- [39:48]
Adina Sussman
Yeah.
- [39:49]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
You know, like a fruit. Yeah.
- [39:51]
Adina Sussman
Like a one bowl summer fruitcake. And it's cheesecake. And a cardamom chocolate snacking cake and lime blondies. Yeah. You know, a lot of the recipes are really like a sort of a fusion of my American upbringing in my Israeli current life. You know, like the. The bomba rice marshmallow treats. It's like a Rice Krispie treat, but using bomba, like the iconic peanut puff peanut snack. Or a chocolate cake which looks like an after school cake but has cardamom in it, you know, or a cheesecake with Trina. Like, so there's always something that sort of connects the two worlds.
- [40:21]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
I think it's a secret sauce.
- [40:22]
Adina Sussman
And.
- [40:23]
Zibby Owens
Yes.
- [40:23]
Adina Sussman
And they're not. Then they're not hard.
- [40:24]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
Especially in this book, when you're eating, are you always, like, hypercritical?
- [40:29]
Adina Sussman
No, you're not. I'm like the easiest, easiest dinner guest ever, really. Just like, if someone else is cooking, I'm so happy to be eating. And, like, you really can turn off that part of your brain. I just feel like I had a boyfriend in culinary school and his parents took us out for Fabulous meals. And he was always criticizing them. And I felt like, like, you know, we just wanted to have a nice evening together and spend time together. And, you know, eating and cooking is so much more about just the food itself. There's so much else. And, you know, if someone else has put the time and the effort into cooking, like the. I feel the love as much as the cooking itself. And I, you know, unless something is absolutely inedible, I'm. I'm pretty easygoing. I might have some thoughts in the back of my head, but I can definitely compartmentalize them and just have a good time.
- [41:13]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
Interesting.
- [41:14]
Adina Sussman
When I'm with my super foodie friends and we're out for like a meal, you know, that that's, you know, we really, like, break it down, but that's, that's different.
- [41:22]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
How do you feel about launching books into the U.S. morass?
- [41:29]
Adina Sussman
It's been, you know, I always keep saying I'm going DTC direct to consumer. You know, there's much less media coverage of Israeli books and is my cookbook and other friends who I'll let them speak up for themselves. But it's definitely something that I'm aware of and I see and feel it just makes me more determined than ever to show my work and my life and to continue to grow and expand what I do. I feel that I have a platform and I need to use it. That's so not. You know, 11 years ago, I wasn't what they call like a professional Jew. I was writing cookbooks with Chrissy Teigen. I was living in New York. I was a restaurant critic for Manhattan Magazine. I was doing totally different things. And this is the. I always was super connected to Israel, but, you know, I met my husband and moved there and it really changed the course of my life. And, you know, I think it's true also just for Jew. I know a Jewish author, friends of mine in the States, it's no different. So, you know, I think it needs to be addressed. Books provide joy, books provide community, books provide connection. And I think that, you know, in the Jewish space, specifically, one thing that Jewish people are really good at is. Is moving forward and keeping it moving. Our traditions, our holidays, our Shabbat, all these life cycle events that, you know, each one rolls into the other. And so much about Judaism is about the circular nature of life. There's really no beginning and end. And so I feel that way. You know, I can't believe how many of my friends are producing such amazing work. And I think that we're more driven and motivated than ever to do that. And also, you know, the rituals of my life and the traditions of my life and how connected I am to my community and how increasingly connected I am that keep me moving forward. And, you know, I hope that my recipes and books provide that for people who use them. No, it's.
- [43:21]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
It's really amazing. So do you have another coming after
- [43:25]
Zibby Owens
we finish the box?
- [43:27]
Adina Sussman
I'm working on a couple of other ideas. One is a. Another conceptual sort of like regular cookbook, and then one is one that has a little bit more of a Jewish life cycle spin, which we can't really talk about yet, but always cook. Cookbooks related, for sure. And I'm just so lucky. I have an amazing publisher. Avery. They're so supportive. They're incredible. I've done all three of my books with them and plan to stay with them.
- [43:56]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
Who are the lucky testers of your food?
- [44:00]
Adina Sussman
My stepson Nadav, who lives nearby, I would say. I just saw him. He happens to be in New York, so I was telling someone, he's my number one customer. We always have tons of takeout containers in the house to send people home with food. The people who work with me, my neighbors. And, you know, I'm always needing to keep it moving because I've got. Sometimes I'm testing the same recipe three or four times. You know, you might not taste the difference on the spot, but I do. But I, you know, and my husband's like, really? The fish with the yogurt again? Again. Again. I'm like, you're right. It's a lot. So, you know, but yeah, so everyone. Everyone. You know, actually I'm the. I. When I'm cooking my own food, I just take bites. Like there's, you know, I'm. I'm my. I'm my least frequent, like, prolific eater of my own food because I'm always making it. Wow. Yeah.
- [44:50]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
So what, what do you want people to take out the most? Like, if someone said, like, if you got a DM or something. Yeah, like, what would your ideal DM be in response to this book? Or are you already getting lots of DMs?
- [45:02]
Adina Sussman
I got an email yesterday from someone who told me that they have been going through a really hard, grief ridden time in their life and that they just completely stopped cooking and that they opened my book and somehow it cracked something open in them because the recipes looked sunny and happy and flavorful, but easy and doable. And every recipe is on one page. And, you know, each page is a world unto itself. And that they cooked two things from my book and adapted some other recipes and that it brought them back to a place that they'd been trying to get back to for a long time. So like, you cannot do better than that.
- [45:36]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
That is so amazing.
- [45:38]
Adina Sussman
And just goosebumps. Yeah, it really. Someone forwarded me that through a friend and that just really touched me and just, you know, people who are finding their way back to their Jewish roots through my cooking. I also have a lot of non Jewish readers, cooks, followers, friends who also, you know, read my books and cook from them. And, you know, that's also really gratifying because I just, you know, I cross cultural communication is so important and in our sort of striated times, like, it feels harder and harder to like, just, you know, to like get out of your own tunnel and. Yeah, just people who. Their kids are cooking from the book or who love the books. Kids love cookbooks, picture books. I'm sure you've noticed that as well.
- [46:21]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
I've noticed that, yes.
- [46:22]
Adina Sussman
Yeah. So a lot of people write me and show me a picture of their three year old, like flipping through my cookbook or their kid who's like actually reading the book. And I love that.
- [46:30]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
Maybe you should do something with your grandkids for other little kids.
- [46:33]
Adina Sussman
A great idea. I would love it.
- [46:36]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
That'd be good.
- [46:36]
Adina Sussman
Yeah.
- [46:37]
Zibby Owens
Adina, thank you.
- [46:38]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
Thank you for making time on your very busy tour to celebrate.
- [46:41]
Adina Sussman
Thank you so much for having me.
- [46:42]
Interviewer with Adina Sussman
Of course.
- [46:43]
Zibby Owens
Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have Time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review. Follow me on Instagram ibbyoans and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.
- [47:05]
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Adina Sussman
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