Podcast Summary
Podcast: Totally Booked with Zibby
Episode: Lili Anolik: DIDION & BABITZ
Date: November 12, 2025
Host: Zibby Owens
Guest: Lili Anolik (author of Hollywood's Eve, chronicler of Eve Babitz and Joan Didion)
Location: Live at the Whitby Hotel
Episode Overview
This live episode features a lively, deeply researched conversation between Zibby Owens and writer Lili Anolik about her new book exploring the intertwined lives, legacies, and complicated friendship of two icons of Los Angeles: Eve Babitz and Joan Didion. Anolik delves into how she became obsessively interested in Babitz, the discovery of lost letters and manuscripts that shed new light on both women, and the ways their stories challenge the mythmaking that often surrounds famous writers. The conversation also covers literary obsessions, the process of writing biography, and the unique challenges of capturing such outsized personalities.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Lili’s Fascination with Eve Babitz
- Discovery of Eve Babitz:
- Anolik describes her initial encounter with Babitz's work (via a quote in Joe Eszterhas's Hollywood Animal) and the thrill of feeling like she’d “discovered” someone unknown and totally out of print.
"I was unpublished... I was on the subway feeling bad about myself, and I was reading... Joe Esterhaus... Each chapter with a quote...from a woman named Eve Babbitts...and I just was knocked out by it." (02:12)
- She became immediately obsessed, tracking down Babitz’s books and “stalking” her for years to get an interview.
- Anolik describes her initial encounter with Babitz's work (via a quote in Joe Eszterhas's Hollywood Animal) and the thrill of feeling like she’d “discovered” someone unknown and totally out of print.
- Babitz’s Persona:
- Babitz was known for her "sex résumé"—her celebrated liaisons with icons from Jim Morrison to Harrison Ford to Steve Martin.
"I knew like on her sex resume was like, Jim Morrison and Harrison Ford... It was a much longer and more impressive sex resume than even I had guessed." (03:28)
- Babitz was known for her "sex résumé"—her celebrated liaisons with icons from Jim Morrison to Harrison Ford to Steve Martin.
The Reality Behind the Legend
- Meeting Eve Babitz:
- The reality of meeting Babitz was sobering; she had suffered from Huntington’s disease and was living in severe squalor, her glamour and legend clashing with reality.
"As soon as I saw her, I knew something was wrong... she looked crazy... it was the fire. But she had Huntington's." (05:13)
- The reality of meeting Babitz was sobering; she had suffered from Huntington’s disease and was living in severe squalor, her glamour and legend clashing with reality.
- Posthumous Fame and Mixed Feelings:
- Babitz achieved a late-in-life cult status, but Anolik notes it was profoundly bittersweet—Babitz was barely able to experience her renaissance.
"It was like she'd skipped fame and fortune, bougie aspirations, and gone straight to legend... But the truth was, she wasn't still around." (06:09)
- Babitz achieved a late-in-life cult status, but Anolik notes it was profoundly bittersweet—Babitz was barely able to experience her renaissance.
The Discovery of the Letters
- Finding Lost Letters and a “Treasure Trove”:
- After Babitz’s death in 2021, her mother’s preservation efforts led to the discovery of boxes of unsent letters, especially to and about Joan Didion.
"Her mother had kind of put together these boxes of all Eve's letters and manuscripts... It was a treasure trove." (07:57)
- Anolik was both daunted and compelled by the revelations in these letters, which offered an unvarnished portrait of Babitz’s interior life and her feelings toward Didion.
"If I could have gotten away with it, I just would have burned them... I knew I was going to have to come in and redo, like, the whole book..." (08:36)
- After Babitz’s death in 2021, her mother’s preservation efforts led to the discovery of boxes of unsent letters, especially to and about Joan Didion.
- The Bombshell Letter to Didion:
- The first letter she found was an unsent rant to Didion, laced with rage over Didion’s dismissiveness toward the women’s movement.
"Could you write what you write, Joan, if you weren't so tiny?" (09:16)
- The letter revealed unexpected depth, conflict, and ambiguity in the Babitz-Didion relationship, leading Anolik to reshape her entire book project.
"All of a sudden, I knew that the relationship between the two women... the depth, the rage, the intimacy... So it was news to me." (10:40)
- The first letter she found was an unsent rant to Didion, laced with rage over Didion’s dismissiveness toward the women’s movement.
Joan Didion: What This Book Reveals
- Cracking Didion’s Guarded Persona:
- For lifelong Didion readers, Anolik promises the book exposes what it really took to be Joan—her ascent, the psychic cost, and the constructed nature of her persona.
"If you write about Los Angeles, literary Los Angeles... Joan is so big. She blots out the sun... she only tells you what she wants you to know. And I felt when I read that first letter, it was like light was shining under the door..." (16:00)
- For lifelong Didion readers, Anolik promises the book exposes what it really took to be Joan—her ascent, the psychic cost, and the constructed nature of her persona.
- Key Relationships—Noel Parmentel:
- Anolik unearthed new details about Didion’s early romantic life and the outsized influence of Noel Parmentel, the mythic figure who helped launch her career and picked her husband, John Gregory Dunne.
"He was to me... the wet beating heart at the center of Joan's story..." (17:34)
"He bullied somebody into buying [Didion's first book] and she wanted to marry him... he finally kind of made her understand he wasn't going to marry again and she had a nervous breakdown... He said... it's time for Joan to get married. And he just picked somebody for her and she married John Gregory Dunn." (18:01–19:24)
- Anolik unearthed new details about Didion’s early romantic life and the outsized influence of Noel Parmentel, the mythic figure who helped launch her career and picked her husband, John Gregory Dunne.
- Didion’s Persona as Literary Invention:
- The book shows how Didion crafted both her own image and her husband’s (insisting he go by “John Gregory Dunne”).
"John Gregory Dunn was Joan's invention. She felt it sounded better... just seeing how she does it." (20:23)
- Anolik notes only writers like Hemingway, Fitzgerald, and Capote have achieved such a perfect match between persona and their work.
"The only writers who have a Persona equal to hers are Fitzgerald and Hemingway... Joan seemed like a Joan character." (20:54)
- The book shows how Didion crafted both her own image and her husband’s (insisting he go by “John Gregory Dunne”).
Why There Are No Contemporary Equivalents
- Lost Era of Literary Feuds and Personas:
- Anolik laments that the kind of wild, public, combative literary friendships (and enmities) of the past don’t exist anymore, even referencing the Calloway-Beach social media drama as the closest modern analogue.
"I don't think people fight anymore. Like, literary feuds, which were so great... The closest... was like Caroline Calloway and Natalie Beach." (21:23)
- She posits Lena Dunham as the closest figure to Didion—a multi-platform creator who “wanted the big stage.”
"When people ask me who is the closest to Joan, I think it's like Alina Dunham. It's like somebody who's in a different medium. I think Joan wanted the big stage..." (21:52)
- Anolik laments that the kind of wild, public, combative literary friendships (and enmities) of the past don’t exist anymore, even referencing the Calloway-Beach social media drama as the closest modern analogue.
The Obsessive Nature of Biography
- Acknowledging Subjectivity:
- Anolik doesn’t claim her book is the “official account” and asserts the necessity of admitting personal bias and obsession in writing biography.
"I know I'm called a biographer, but I don't feel that's what I am... This is my Eve, this is my Joan." (22:32)
- Anolik doesn’t claim her book is the “official account” and asserts the necessity of admitting personal bias and obsession in writing biography.
- Direct Address:
- She addresses the reader directly to prepare them for the “contrary to the official narrative” approach she takes, especially regarding Didion.
"I want you to be ready for that. If I'm going to take your virginity, if I'm going to violate you, I want to tell you first." (23:52)
- She addresses the reader directly to prepare them for the “contrary to the official narrative” approach she takes, especially regarding Didion.
Literary Heroes & What’s Next
- Current Projects:
- Anolik teases her latest obsession with Courtney Love and speculative genealogies involving Marlon Brando and novelist Paula Fox.
"Courtney and I were going to do something together, then she dumped me... But we're back together... I'm working on this long thing with Courtney. On Courtney, Paula Fox and Marlon Brando." (25:45)
- Anolik teases her latest obsession with Courtney Love and speculative genealogies involving Marlon Brando and novelist Paula Fox.
- Synthesizing Massive Research:
- Her selection criteria for what makes it into the book are simple—if it excites her, it’s in.
"Whatever excites me the most is what I include. So it's like the parts of their life that I most... It's just. It's whatever is thrilling to me." (26:36)
- Her selection criteria for what makes it into the book are simple—if it excites her, it’s in.
- Literary Influences:
- Pauline Kael and Janet Malcolm are cited as major influences.
"Probably like my two real sweet spots for me are Pauline Kael... and Janet Malcolm." (28:07)
- Pauline Kael and Janet Malcolm are cited as major influences.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- On Babitz’s Hidden Struggles:
"She'd existed in a kind of posthumous state, as if she'd somehow contrived to outlive herself." — Zibby Owens (06:09)
- On the Price of Fame:
"I don't think you start a writing career... if you, fame and fortune aren't on your mind at some level. So I think it was... thrilling for her to...get famous late, but she was a terrorized being at some level at this point in her life." — Lili Anolik (06:56)
- On Literary Persona:
"The only writers who have a Persona equal to hers are Fitzgerald and Hemingway... Joan seemed like a Joan character." — Lili Anolik (20:54)
- On Literary Feuds:
"I don't think people fight anymore. Like, literary feuds, which were so great. We're just like, should we start some?" — Lili Anolik (21:23)
- On Addressing the Reader:
"This is going to be, I don't know, contrary to the official narrative. And I just. I want you to be ready for that. If I'm going to take your virginity, if I'm going to violate you, I want to tell you first." — Lili Anolik (23:52)
Timestamps for Important Segments
- [02:12] — Lili’s initial discovery of Eve Babitz and becoming obsessed
- [03:13] — Recounting Babitz’s "sex résumé" and mythos
- [05:13] — Reality of meeting Babitz in decline; squalor and Huntington’s
- [06:09] — Zibby reads pivotal section regarding Babitz’s posthumous fame
- [07:48] — Finding Babitz’s lost letters and the emotional impact
- [09:16] — The unsent letter to Joan Didion, revealing hidden tensions
- [16:00] — Anolik on cracking the mystery of Joan Didion’s public image
- [17:34] — The influence of Noel Parmentel and the making of Didion
- [20:23] — Didion’s crafting of literary persona for herself and her husband
- [21:23] — Discussion of why contemporary literary feuds like Didion/Babitz no longer exist
- [22:32] — Anolik defends her subjective, obsessive approach to biography
- [25:45] — Anolik’s upcoming research with Courtney Love
- [26:36] — How she chooses what stories to tell—by excitement level
- [28:07] — Anolik’s literary heroes
Conclusion
This episode offers a deeply researched, gossipy-yet-intellectual look at the intertwined, explosive lives of Eve Babitz and Joan Didion, as refracted through the intense personal fascination of biographer Lili Anolik. The conversation is opinionated and intimate, punctuated by memorable turns of phrase, cutting insights, and an irrepressible sense of literary adventure. Both for fans of Didion/Babitz and newcomers, it’s a compelling glimpse into how literary legends—and their biographers—are made.