Melissa Wirt, I WAS TOLD THERE'D BE A VILLAGE: Transforming Motherhood Through the Power of Connection

Summary

Podcast Summary: Totally Booked with Zibby – Episode Featuring Melissa Wirt

Episode Title: Melissa Wirt, I WAS TOLD THERE'D BE A VILLAGE: Transforming Motherhood Through the Power of Connection

Release Date: April 28, 2025

Host: Zibby Owens

Guest: Melissa Wirt, CEO and Founder of Latched Mama, Author of I Was Told There'd Be a Village: Transforming Motherhood Through the Power of Connection

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Introduction

In this enlightening episode of Totally Booked with Zibby, host Zibby Owens sits down with Melissa Wirt, the dynamic CEO and founder of Latched Mama, a thriving breastfeeding apparel company and community. Melissa shares her journey of building a supportive community for mothers, the inspiration behind her latest book, and the profound impact of genuine human connection in motherhood.

Melissa’s Journey and Inspiration for the Book

Melissa opens up about her decade-long experience in running Latched Mama, emphasizing that the true essence of her brand extended beyond selling apparel—it was about bringing mothers together. She explains, “[...] what I really saw was bringing moms together. Day after day, day, I saw just how much of almost like sponges we were to connection” (04:12). This realization spurred her to delve deeper into the science of loneliness and the critical role of meaningful relationships in our lives.

The Power of Connection in Motherhood

Central to Melissa’s book is the concept that human connection is as vital as food, water, and shelter. She discusses how busy lifestyles and the rise of online interactions have diminished our face-to-face connections, leading to increased feelings of isolation. Melissa asserts, “As human beings, we need each other and we need those moments of connection” (06:43). She highlights that even weak connections, such as a simple hello or a smile, can significantly boost our sense of worth and energy, facilitating deeper relationships.

Impact of Modern Technology on Motherhood

Melissa critiques the over-reliance on digital communication, noting that while online platforms save time, they often sacrifice the quality of interactions. She shares, “If you order things online, you don't have to get dressed, you don't have to do your hair... But it really cuts down on the fact that we do need each other and we do need those interactions” (07:34). This shift towards virtual connections has, according to Melissa, hampered the natural human need for face-to-face interaction, which is crucial for emotional and mental well-being.

The Three E’s of Engineering Connection

Melissa introduces her Three E’s framework from the book: Encounter, Engage, and Exposure. Each chapter in her book begins with contrasting mindsets—Isolation vs. Village—to illustrate the transformative power of intentional connection.

1. Encounter: Creating opportunities to meet new people.
2. Engage: Actively participating in conversations and activities.
3. Exposure: Building diverse and meaningful relationships.

She explains, “One of the misconceptions about connection is that it takes a lot of time and energy. [...] you know, we're literally biologically programmed to need connection” (08:39).

Overcoming Guilt and Embracing Vulnerability

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the guilt mothers often feel when asking for help. Melissa shares personal anecdotes about the challenges of balancing motherhood, business, and personal well-being. She remarks, “Asking for help is, like, inherently vulnerable” (17:11). Melissa emphasizes that vulnerability can strengthen relationships, allowing women to support each other and dispel the unrealistic ideals of motherhood perpetuated by society.

Building a Community Through Latched Mama

Melissa delves into how Latched Mama has grown into a robust community of nearly half a million members. She attributes this success to authenticity, vulnerability, and the willingness to ask for help. Melissa recounts the early days of the company, highlighting the importance of collaboration and mutual support: “I showed up and I said, hey, I care about moms. I want to put this product out into the market. I don't know what I'm doing. Can you guys help me? Let's do this together” (21:05). This approach not only fostered a supportive community but also strengthened the brand’s mission of empowering mothers.

Personal Stories Illustrating Connection

One of the most touching moments in the interview is Melissa’s story about her son’s lacrosse game. Faced with securing a carpool, she experiences rejection from fellow mothers, leading to an emotional moment that underscores the importance of vulnerability and shared struggles. Melissa reflects, “It was the most beautiful thing in the world because I could say to him, hey, you know what? We're both trying to navigate this together” (25:27). This story exemplifies how authentic connections can create profound moments of empathy and support.

Conclusion

Melissa Wirt's insightful discussion with Zibby Owens underscores the crucial role of connection in motherhood and beyond. Her experiences as a mother and entrepreneur illuminate the challenges and rewards of building a supportive community. Through her book, Melissa advocates for intentional connection, vulnerability, and the dismantling of societal pressures that isolate mothers. This episode serves as a compelling reminder that fostering genuine relationships is essential for personal fulfillment and collective well-being.

Notable Quotes

• Melissa Wirt [06:43]: “As human beings, we need each other and we need those moments of connection.”
• Melissa Wirt [07:34]: “If you order things online, you don't have to get dressed, you don't have to do your hair... But it really cuts down on the fact that we do need each other and we do need those interactions.”
• Melissa Wirt [08:39]: “One of the misconceptions about connection is that it takes a lot of time and energy. [...] we're literally biologically programmed to need connection.”
• Melissa Wirt [17:11]: “Asking for help is, like, inherently vulnerable.”
• Melissa Wirt [21:05]: “I showed up and I said, hey, I care about moms. I want to put this product out into the market. I don't know what I'm doing. Can you guys help me? Let's do this together.”
• Melissa Wirt [25:27]: “It was the most beautiful thing in the world because I could say to him, hey, you know what? We're both trying to navigate this together.”

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Timestamp References:

• 04:12 – Melissa discusses the inspiration behind her book.
• 06:43 – The necessity of human connection.
• 07:34 – The impact of online interactions on real-life connections.
• 08:39 – Introduction to the Three E’s of Engineering Connection.
• 17:11 – The vulnerability involved in asking for help.
• 21:05 – Building Latched Mama through collaboration and community.
• 25:27 – Personal story illustrating the power of connection.

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This episode of Totally Booked with Zibby offers a profound exploration of motherhood, community, and the essential human need for connection. Melissa Wirt’s candid conversations provide valuable insights for mothers seeking support and inspire listeners to cultivate meaningful relationships in their own lives.

Transcript

[Zibby Owens]

Are you interested in being part of the live studio audience while I film a series for Totally Booked with Zibby Live in New York City? Sign [e-mail] I have a little Google form that you can fill out and if you get selected you can come sit in the audience, hear from authors before their books have even come out, and be a part of the show again. Go to zibbyowens.com Filmings will be on April 16th, 23rd, 30th and May 7th in New York City. Be a part of it.

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[Melissa Wirt]

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[Melissa Wirt]

Hey everyone, I'm Jenna Bush Hager from the Today show and I'm excited to share my podcast Open Book with Jenna. It is back for season two. Each week, celebrities, experts, friends and authors will share candid stories with me about their lives and new projects. Guests like Rebecca Yarros, Kristin Hannah, Ego Wodom, and more Like a good leave Feeling inspired and entertained. Join me for my podcast Open Book with Jenna.

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[Melissa Wirt]

With Jenna wherever you get your podcasts.

[Zibby Owens]

Hi, this is Zibby Owens and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby. Formerly Moms don't have time to read Books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to stay in the know, get insider insights and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbymedia.com and follow me on Instagram ibeowensk Melissa Wirt is the author of I Was Told There'd Be a Transforming Motherhood through the Power of Connection. Melissa is the CEO and founder of Latched Mama, a breastfeeding apparel company which has grown into a robust brand and community that counts close to half a million members and has been featured in media outlets ranging from Business Insider to USA Today to CBS this Morning. Melissa and her husband Eric, live with their six children outside of Richmond, Virginia. Welcome Melissa. Congratulations on I was told there'd be a village Transforming Motherhood through the Power of Conn. And congrats.

[Melissa Wirt]

Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. Of course.

[Zibby Owens]

And I loved doing our event together at the Core Club. That was so much fun. So I'm glad we got an in person experience too.

[Melissa Wirt]

Absolutely. Thank you.

[Zibby Owens]

Your book is great in so many ways. As a mom who has had many thoughts on friendship and the village and all of that, reading your book and having you be so authentic about your experience, but also analytic in the way you present a bunch of other stories of different people and even frameworks for us to use, tell me a little bit. And starting at all, like feeling like an imposter and admitting that. So it's kind of like a meta introduction. Explain why you decided to write the book and let's go from there.

[Melissa Wirt]

Yeah. So about 10 years ago, I started a clothing brand and we continued to sell clothes throughout the past decade. But what I really saw that was the kind of the bread and butter of the brand was bringing moms together. And day after day, day, I saw just how much of almost like sponges we were to connection. And I also saw the roadblocks to it, the ways that we weren't always nice to each other. And I really wanted to dig in and try to give the world something other than, you know, an online community that was based on a breastfeeding clothing line. I knew I had learned a lot through kind of shepherding relationships and building online communities. And I also found myself completely alone. I didn't understand how I could be building this for all of these other people. But I wasn't doing the work myself. So I really wanted to kind of dig into, like what that meant and what it felt like to build a village that I didn't have personally at the time.

[Zibby Owens]

So meanwhile you were living on a farm with six children and running a business, and you start the book having had a miscarriage. And I won't like give away the end unless you want to talk about it, but you have this very Sort of poetic ending to the book that sort of wraps it all together and shows your progression and growth throughout the year of connecting and all of that. But it's not like you were just sitting around. I mean, yeah, yeah, I was.

[Melissa Wirt]

I was moving and grooving for sure. I still am. But I think what was really interesting is that I think we all numb ourselves. I think we all choose different things, whether it be food, alcohol, you know, different. Different things that we do. Mine was accomplishments and staying busy. The more busy I stayed, the less I had to look at what was truly lacking in my life. I personally, until I started writing this book, did not understand the science behind loneliness and how human interaction and whether it be small or deep, meaningful relationships actually play into just us existing as human beings in general, physically and mentally. So I think I had been running for a really long time. I didn't have to learn how to trust people or let people help me or do all of those things if I just stayed busy. And then the miscarriage knocked me on my butt, and I was alone, and we were at this farm, and I didn't understand what was next, but I knew things had to change.

[Zibby Owens]

Wow. You even have a whole section that extols the virtues of the weak connection. Right. Like just saying hello to someone or just, like, in passing. And what do those connections do and how can they lead to bigger connections? Talk about that, because I feel like people are quick to dismiss those types of encounters.

[Melissa Wirt]

Yeah. So, you know, as human beings, we need each other and we need those moments of connection. And I think that's. So many of us have started to, you know, order our groceries online or go to Yelp to get, you know, review information. And I think what happens when we actually say hello to somebody or go into the coffee shop or have these interactions is we get little moments of energy back from the other person. And we also get little moments of worthiness when somebody smiles back at you or holds the door open or tells you you're doing a great job or, you know, looks at your little kid and it tells you how cute they are. I mean, little, tiny, tiny things allow us to have the energy and the confidence to lean into some of those bigger relationships as well.

[Zibby Owens]

So interesting, you know, this whole online everything, it feels like you're saving so much time, but we don't often talk about all the things we're giving up.

[Melissa Wirt]

Yeah. And it is easier. I mean, if you order things online, you don't have to get dressed, you don't have to do your hair you don't have to worry about judgment. You can order whatever you want. And I think it allows us a certain level of privacy and it allows us a certain level of comfort from kind of the self shame or the judgment from others. But it really cuts down on the fact that we do need each other and we do need those interactions.

[Zibby Owens]

So you have a whole framework in the book as well. The four Cs of connection. Wait, well, I can't find that, but I found the three E's of engineering connection. Should we talk about that? Let's just switch. So you have three E's of engineering connection. And in each chapter you start with an isolation mindset and a village mindset, which I love. So for this chapter, for example, my. The isolation mindset is. My life just isn't designed for meeting new people. It's hopeless. And the village mindset becomes. If I am conscious about my life choices big and small, I can create opportunities to connect. So these are encounter. What are the other ones? Hold on. Encounter. Engage. I'm flipping through. And this is an exposure.

[Melissa Wirt]

Yeah. So I mean, what I hear so much from the people kind of in our online. Online community and my friends here is that they just don't have time. And why? You know, I think one of the misconceptions about connection is that it takes a lot of time and energy. And it does take time and energy, but what it does is it also gives you back energy because we're literally biologically programmed to need connection. So when we do lean into it, when we do find time even to do something like this, I know my next three hours of my life are going to be more productive because you and I are talking right now. As opposed to if I had just leaned into. To working on emails or designing in Canva or doing something, I know that I'm gonna have more energy. And it's weird that it works that way. And I didn't understand that it worked that way until I researched the book. But it literally is just something we need, like food and water and shelter.

[Zibby Owens]

And it doesn't matter if it's online like this on zoom versus like sitting next to somebody, you can get energy wherever.

[Melissa Wirt]

Absolutely. I mean, it's always better probably when you're together and it's always better when you have a camera on. It's why I like those zoom calls. I always feel a little like, oh, cameras aren't on. You know, like. And that's why bosses are like, hey, can you guys turn your cameras on? Because it goes so much Further past the words that are, that are said. I mean the non verbal communication, it's the, it's the smile, it's the being patient while somebody figures out what they want to say. It's all of those things that we continue to carry with us throughout our days that help us be better parents and better humans and better employees and everything so.

[Zibby Owens]

Well, don't you feel like, I mean, I'm a little older than you here, but back in the day of the telephone, I would spend hours talking to people and it didn't ever feel at a remove because I feel like we were all listening so much more. Now if somebody doesn't have their camera on, on zoom, it's because you know they're doing something else.

[Melissa Wirt]

Absolutely. Yeah. And we just don't prioritize connection. And I think that that's a major issue is that if we're not prioritizing it, it's not going to happen. But I think it begs the question like, does society tell us it's important? And it doesn't because we work in these high paced times where your kids have to be, you know, in seven different activities and you need to cook a gourmet dinner and then, you know, you need to do this and you need that. And where is that actual time for connection? Like if it's not something that is kind of built into society as a general, we're going to continue to live these isolated lifestyles.

[Zibby Owens]

So ideally we would just put it on the to do list.

[Melissa Wirt]

Absolutely. Yep. And that's what we talk about a little bit in the book of, you know, blaming it on the calendar. You know, it's Wednesday night, sorry kids, it's book night. Calendar says it's, you know, it's book club night, you know, and you just put it down as something that is another part of your to do list which makes it sound like it's a chore. And sometimes it does feel like that. I know personally I'll have something on my calendar and I would much rather just, you know, be at home in my pajamas and make dinner with my kids and not go out. And sometimes I think we need to do that. But I think there's other times where we talk that we talk about calling them. Put on your sneaker moments where if you can just do that one little thing, maybe you can take your sweats off and put on your jeans and then can you get to the front door and then can you drive, you know, to the coffee shop like, and then can you say hello? And then can you say about this terrible thing that you're holding onto that has shame wrapped around it, and then suddenly you're doing it, you know, you're doing the thing and you're doing the connection, you know, and that just starts to snowball into feeling really, really good.

[Zibby Owens]

Have you watched the show Shrinking?

[Melissa Wirt]

I have.

[Zibby Owens]

You know, the one guy who they, like, forced to go into the coffee shop, and then he, like, talks to the barista, and then he has to talk to the person at the table. It's like, similar to that.

[Melissa Wirt]

Yeah, absolutely. And it's. It's interesting because I think we. I think we're all have a certain level of anxiety. I mean, maybe not every single person in this world, but I think especially as moms, if you think about the amount of decisions we make every single day and how many of those are going to be wrong or failures. I mean, it is. It is literally like we wake up in the morning and I Hope to get 50% right. And I know that I'm going to fall on my face the other 50% of the time. And I think what's really sad about this and kind of looking at the bigger picture is that every time we make, you know, a mistake or we don't do something right or our kids don't behave the way we want them to or the way we expect them to, we start feeling the shame, like we're not doing it right, like we did something wrong, like we didn't research that enough or we didn't lean into it enough, or we didn't teach them that. And I think what's really scary is when we do live in isolation, there's no way to get through that shame. There's no way to share it with somebody else. And that's the only way that you can learn that somebody else made that same mistake two days ago where somebody else's kid stuck their tongue out at the park, too. And, you know, and I think so much of motherhood and connection is sharing stories because society paints this beautiful picture. They paint this gorgeous picture of motherhood where it's supposed to be perfect and clean and wonderful, and it's not. And there's nothing that we can do to change that other than talk to each other and bring some reality back to the the picture.

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[Zibby Owens]

So how did you pull off writing a book with your own company and the six kids and everything else? When did you get it done?

[Melissa Wirt]

Yeah, so I have a lot of help at home, as much as I as I can find. But I wrote this book primarily on soccer fields inside indoor pools during swim meets any time I could carve out. I did have a weekly couple hours that I worked on it within the office, but the rest of it was weekend time grinding with kids I still have. My 11 year old still reminds me of the time he missed his swimming event because I was deep in a story that I was writing in the book, you know, and it's just, you just piece it together. But I believe, and I believe that it can change lives. My life is completely different on the other side of this book and it's not because of the press it's gotten or how many it's sold or anything like that because none of that's happened yet. It literally has changed because I have a village and I believe in the words in the book.

[Zibby Owens]

You know, it's amazing. I always feel you talk in the book about the guilt of asking for help and how we would never, it would never occur to us to like arrange a meal train for ourselves or something like that. And every Time that I, like, even think of asking for a mom to take a kid because I just can't figure out the logistics. And I was like, I'm gonna. I can't. I just can't do that. I'm gonna have to ask a favor. And I always say to myself, like, I never mind when people ask me. I love it when people ask me to do favors. Like, I love being helpful, and so many people love to be helpful. And I think we always think it's an imposition. And so sometimes I have to tell myself, no, you're actually, like, robbing the other person of the opportunity for them to feel helpful, which makes them feel better.

[Melissa Wirt]

And I think, like, another little Jedi mind trick with asking for help. Asking for help is, like, inherently vulnerable. And it doesn't quite take. In my opinion, sometimes when we're in that moment of, oh my gosh, how am I going to get the kids where they need to be and how am I going to make this work? Sometimes we're in such this, like, panic mode that it's vulnerability without really feeling vulnerable, you know, Like, I mean, it. It does. It's hard to ask the question. But sometimes when we're like, asking it for our kids or we're in that moment of panic or we don't know how to make it happen, it actually is sneaky vulnerability, I feel like, because it's like this, I have to do it, I have to ask, or it's not gonna happen. And it kind of allows us to move that relationship with whoever we're asking for maybe a little bit further than it would normally get. Because we are asking for help and we are saying indirectly, hey, I can't cut it. Like, I can't get this done. And I think for high achieving individuals like you and me, sometimes that's a little hard to swallow.

[Zibby Owens]

Do you feel like you have a village in place for the book?

[Melissa Wirt]

For the book? Like the book book or like, just.

[Zibby Owens]

I mean, for like, the release of the book? Like, it's a lot. It's a lot to have a book come out too. I mean, do you feel like your village is in situ?

[Melissa Wirt]

I feel like I have been in learning mode, like intense learning mode for, I mean, of course, the entire time I've written the book, but the last six to seven months. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what it looks like. I've just kind of succumbed to the idea that I'm gonna do the best I can and I'm going to learn. I mean, some People say you write your first book for your second book and I don't. I always thought that that was like a performance based thing, like my second. Your second book sells more than your first book. I really think that it will probably be more enjoyable the second time because I won't be in this place of feeling like I'm asking questions or bugging people or trying to gather information. It's a really, really interesting industry and I've enjoyed every moment of learning about it. But it's. You have to ask questions and sometimes that's hard for me, like if I can't Google it or research it. And it brings you back to the idea that you have to ask for help and you have to actually communicate with people as opposed to Google all your answers because some of it's like now like under layers of information and finding the right people.

[Zibby Owens]

So last time we talked, by the way, you were like, I should probably plan a book tour. Yeah. What ended up happening with that?

[Melissa Wirt]

Well, it's not, I mean I'm doing some online events in the next week after the book launches, but yeah, no, I'm not planning on going anywhere right now. I don't think I ever really figured out like I was like, oh, it's going to be spring and the trees are going to be green and it's going to be a wonderful time to launch a book. But I didn't think about the fact that literally we have like 35 different events every week with the kids in the afternoons and our a pair just got homesick and went back to Germany. Oh no. Yeah, no, that happened all he texted me last Sunday and I booked a flight for Friday.

[Zibby Owens]

Oh no.

[Melissa Wirt]

Oh my gosh. I have a book coming out. So that's happened. You know, it's, it's just, I don't know. I, I believe in it and I want it in people's hands and I want to get through this initial like launching of it, you know, like I want it out there and then I want to just kind of see what happens. So maybe there will be one eventually, but I don't know. I've enjoyed my time in New York at a couple times I've come up there and we have, I have some press the week after booked so that will be helpful as well.

[Zibby Owens]

Wow, you built a company that is now making so much, not making so much revenue, earning so much revenue, has been so big, has like millions of people who are part of the community. How. What was the secret sauce of that? Especially the community, since that is Your focus in the book, and that is what you've done professionally. Like, how. How did you do that? What can other people do? And. Yeah.

[Melissa Wirt]

Yeah, I think that we talk about this a little bit in the book. I think Latched Mama was a trial and vulnerability. I think anytime you start a small brand and you bootstrap it. I mean, we don't. I'm not inherently wealthy or anything. I took $10,000 from my last real estate commission check before I had my baby, and that's what we started the company with. But we didn't have money for models. We didn't have anything. We just kind of built it. My husband has some technical knowledge, and he launched Facebook ads at the right time. And. And I think what happened was that I showed up and I said, hey, I care about moms. I want to put this product out into the. Into the market. I don't know what I'm doing. And it's such, I think, an amazing lesson in general for just human beings. It's asking for help. It's saying, hey, I don't know what I'm doing. Can you guys help me? Let's do this together. And then it just kind of snowballed from there. And there have been ups and downs and amazing moments and moments that have taught me more about human nature, the good and the bad, than I've ever hoped to learn. But I think in the end, it just doubles down on what the book's about. It's just that we need each other. You know, it was. I didn't. I have never gotten out of bed every day and gone to work for the clothes. The clothes have been, like, completely a side project. It's been building the community. Here at Latch Mama, we allow women to bring their babies to work. So in the United States, you can't get a job without childcare, and you can't get childcare without a job, which is really scary for a lot of women who either are single moms or in relationships or situations that aren't the best, aren't the healthiest. So, you know, some of that work has really been what drives me and has, you know, kind of changed my life, apart from the revenue and the company in general. So I just want to keep it going. You know, I think motherhood is really, really hard. And it's beautiful and rewarding in those little fleeting moments sometimes. And sometimes it's in the big moments. But for the most part, I think it's. It's hard to be a mother in the United States, and I Think we need each other and I don't think there's anybody else that understands how hard it is than other moms. But somehow we sometimes get catty and competitive with each other and we have a really hard time, you know, dropping our own self judgment to really come together. So. I don't know. That was a long answer.

[Zibby Owens]

No, no, it's all good. I think that the older I get as a mom, the more, the less I do. All that comparison stuff, like when I just started, I didn't. And I felt like you. I didn't know what I was doing and I didn't sort of have. I mean, I had some confidence, but it kept getting challenged by the fact that other people were doing things differently. Then I kept wondering, well, maybe they know something. I don't know. And now I'm just like, this is how I do things.

[Melissa Wirt]

Yeah, but could you imagine if, how much more joy there would have been in those beginning family, like those beginning motherhood years if that's the way we were? And I understand that it has to take time and you can't look back and all of that stuff, but I look at the way I parent now and I just, I love it. I love my relationships with my kids and my kids are getting older, but I just wish that I found as much joy in the early days. And I don't think much has changed there. I think there are a lot of younger moms or moms that are in the trenches right now with little, little kids that, you know, need to be told that they're doing, they're doing okay. You know, our mom intuition's important and doesn't matter how other people are doing it. You know, I think what really matters is that we need each other.

[Zibby Owens]

You know, I agree. No, I'm so thankful for the moms I was in the trenches with. Oh my gosh, I would not have made it through without them.

[Melissa Wirt]

Yeah, it's wild. And I don't think we prepare our moms for it.

[Thumbtack Ad Voice]

I don't.

[Melissa Wirt]

I think we talk about, you know, the coming home outfit and what the, what the nursery is going to look like and we don't really talk about, you know, the, the way that motherhood can kind of take us out at the knees and is a new adolescence. I mean, it is literally like a second adolescence. And you know, I love that aspect of the book and it brings me. It's like the part that gets me the most right now because I have a almost 13 year old. He'll be 13 in two weeks. And there was this story where it's not in the book, but it happened recently where I was at a lacrosse game, and he's playing lacrosse, and he's really not good at it, and he's okay with me saying that, but it's a brand new sport for him. And there were these moms behind me, and they were talking about their carpool, and I desperately need to get the kid in a carpool because it's throwing off dinners and stuff like that. I turned around and I asked them if we could. If I could be part of their carpool. And they immediately said no.

[Zibby Owens]

And then.

[Melissa Wirt]

And it was fine, but they were like, we are. We. We have five. And I was like, oh. I was like, I have six. So she said, I have. We have five. And I said, oh, I have six. And they were like, kids, why would you ever do that? So then I sat behind my sunglasses and I cried all cross game, which was fine. But then he got in the car and he, like, you know, quickly finished the game and got into the car, and then he was crying because the kid had been mean to him. And it was the most beautiful thing in the world because I could say to him, hey, you know what? We're both trying to navigate this together. You know, it's all hard. And that matched vulnerability in that moment of me trying to find my way into this new little community of moms and him trying to find his way into this new little team. It was like one of the most beautiful parenthood moments ever. And I wouldn't have had it unless I hadn't taken the time to write this book and really lean into how we all change as moms and how we need each other. And I don't know, it's just. It's. It's such a beautiful journey when we can sleep enough and eat enough and get enough time to actually stand back and look at what's happening.

[Zibby Owens]

Amazing. Melissa, thank you so much. I was told there'd be a village. Now we have a village and a book.

[Melissa Wirt]

Yes. Thank you so much for having me. And thank you for championing the book in the way you have been. I really appreciate it. My pleasure.

[Zibby Owens]

All right, take care.

[Melissa Wirt]

Bye.

[Zibby Owens]

Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram, ibyowens and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.

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[Zibby Owens]

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