Episode Summary: Miranda Cowley Heller on What the Deep Water Knows: Poems

Podcast: Totally Booked with Zibby
Host: Zibby Owens
Guest: Miranda Cowley Heller
Episode Release Date: July 1, 2025

Introduction to Miranda Cowley Heller and Her New Collection

In this engaging episode of Totally Booked with Zibby, host Zibby Owens welcomes acclaimed author Miranda Cowley Heller to discuss her latest work, What the Deep Water Knows: Poems. Zibby expresses her excitement about the publication, highlighting Miranda's previous success with her novel The Paper Palace, a New York Times bestseller and Reese's Book Club pick.

Zibby Owens [05:10]: "I was like a rabid, rabid fan of the Paper Palace. Just ridiculous. So your writing is so amazing in these poems."

Miranda shares her enthusiasm about the collection being published in the U.S., emphasizing that this marks her first foray into a poetry collection after establishing herself as a novelist.

The Genesis and Themes of What the Deep Water Knows

Miranda delves into the origins of her poetry collection, explaining that it comprises poems written over approximately fifteen years, many predating The Paper Palace. The selection process involved distilling emotions from various periods of her life, resulting in a narrative arc that mirrors her personal growth and experiences.

Miranda Cowley Heller [05:42]: "The collection is really poetry taken from probably 15 years of writing... they tell a story of survival and evolution and a sort of, I hope, a distillation of feeling as well."

She highlights the diverse forms within the collection, from magical realism to surrealism, all woven together to portray a woman's life journey. The poems are crafted to resonate universally, allowing readers to find personal connections within the verses.

Miranda’s Journey with Poetry and Its Influence on Her Prose

When asked about her affinity for poetry, Miranda recounts a pivotal moment from her childhood that sparked her love for the form. Discovering a poem she wrote at five years old in her stepfather's sketchpad, she reflects on her grandfather, Malcolm Cowley—a renowned poet and literary editor—as a significant influence.

Miranda Cowley Heller [08:23]: "I was so influenced by that growing up... it's always been huge for him as a form and for all of us."

She explains how her return to poetry after working on The Paper Palace enriched her approach to novel writing, with poetic elements subtly influencing her prose.

Miranda Cowley Heller [09:48]: "Fiction is poetry, you know, and a lot of pieces of poems ended up actually in the novel."

Personal Reflections and Life Experiences

The conversation takes a personal turn as Miranda discusses the inspiration behind some of her poems, particularly those reflecting on marriage and personal growth. She candidly shares her experiences of a long-term marriage, highlighting the emotional complexities involved when her husband left after thirty years together.

Miranda Cowley Heller [15:40]: "We were married for 30 years... he ran off with somebody. It was very heartbreaking and very, very difficult."

Despite the challenges, Miranda emphasizes taking responsibility for her part in the relationship's unraveling, showcasing the depth and honesty in her poetry.

Motherhood as a Central Theme

Motherhood emerges as a significant theme in Miranda's collection. She explores the multifaceted experiences of being a mother, the inherited traits from her own upbringing, and the evolution of her relationship with her children.

Miranda Cowley Heller [18:02]: "Motherhood is a difficult path... what I inherit from how I was mothered... trickle into how I mother, whether I like it or not."

Miranda celebrates her grown sons, reflecting on the joys and complexities of motherhood, and how these relationships shape her poetic narratives.

Current and Future Projects

Miranda touches on her ongoing projects, including work on a second novel and continued poetry writing. She acknowledges the challenges of self-critique and the balancing act between personal expression and external reception.

Miranda Cowley Heller [19:59]: "I've been writing, generating a lot of poetry. It's been a funny thing writing a second novel."

Despite the hurdles, Miranda remains committed to her craft, finding solace and inspiration in her creative processes.

Inspiration and Literary Influences

When discussing her current reading list, Miranda mentions contemporary novels and memoirs that have left a significant impact on her. She specifically recommends Exit Wounds by Peter Godwin, praising its depth and emotional resonance.

Miranda Cowley Heller [22:55]: "Exit Wounds is... one of the better books. ... it's so funny and so clever. You will love it, I promise you."

Her diverse reading habits reflect her broad literary interests, spanning from women's fiction to memoirs, which continually inform and inspire her writing.

Advice for Aspiring Authors and Poets

Miranda offers thoughtful advice to aspiring writers, particularly poets. She stresses the importance of making poetry accessible and emotionally resonant, advocating for a balance between powerful, honest words and relatability.

Miranda Cowley Heller [24:19]: "You can hear the Moonlight Sonata... you can just have it... poetry is actually the most beautiful short form."

She encourages poets to blend accessibility with depth, ensuring that their work connects with a wide audience without sacrificing emotional integrity.

Closing Thoughts and Future Outlook

As the conversation wraps up, Zibby expresses her excitement and gratitude for Miranda's contributions to literature. Miranda reciprocates the appreciation, acknowledging Zibby's role in advocating for books and fostering literary discussions.

Miranda Cowley Heller [27:35]: "And also, I just feel like you've become such an amazing advocate and face for books in this way. That's so important. So thank you."

Miranda's forthcoming poetry collection, What the Deep Water Knows, promises to offer readers a profound exploration of personal and universal themes, continuing her legacy of evocative and heartfelt storytelling.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Zibby Owens [05:10]: "I was like a rabid, rabid fan of the Paper Palace. Just ridiculous. So your writing is so amazing in these poems."

• Miranda Cowley Heller [05:42]: "They tell a story of survival and evolution and a sort of, I hope, a distillation of feeling as well."

• Miranda Cowley Heller [08:23]: "I was so influenced by that growing up... it's always been huge for him as a form and for all of us."

• Miranda Cowley Heller [15:40]: "We were married for 30 years... he ran off with somebody. It was very heartbreaking and very, very difficult."

• Miranda Cowley Heller [18:02]: "Motherhood is a difficult path... what I inherit from how I was mothered... trickle into how I mother, whether I like it or not."

• Miranda Cowley Heller [24:19]: "You can hear the Moonlight Sonata... poetry is actually the most beautiful short form."

For more insights and discussions with leading authors, tune into Totally Booked with Zibby every day. Follow Zibby Owens on Instagram @zibbyowens and visit zibbymedia.com for additional resources and updates.