Sash Bischoff, SWEET FURY

Summary

Episode Summary: Sash Bischoff Discusses Sweet Fury

Podcast Title: Totally Booked with Zibby
Host: Zibby Owens
Episode: Sash Bischoff, Sweet Fury
Release Date: January 10, 2025

---

Introduction to Sash Bischoff and Sweet Fury

The episode begins with Zibby Owens introducing Sash Bischoff, the author of her debut novel, Sweet Fury. Sash is not only a writer but also a seasoned theater director with experience on Broadway and national tours, including notable productions such as Dear Evan Hansen and Shrek. She shares her transition from acting and directing to writing, emphasizing her passion for storytelling.

Notable Quote:

"Sweet Fury is a literary thriller. The main character, Lila Crane, is America's sweetheart... As Lila's perfect life unravels, the characters soon become entangled in a deadly game of revenge."
— Sash Bischoff [02:03]

The Genesis of Sweet Fury

Sash delves into the inspiration behind Sweet Fury, highlighting how her background in acting and directing heavily influenced the novel. The catalyst for her pivot to writing was the COVID-19 pandemic, which disrupted her directing career. Determined to pursue her long-held dream of becoming a writer, she began crafting her first novel.

She discusses the initial challenge of bridging her starting point with the end of the story, revealing how feedback from her writing group introduced the element of an F. Scott Fitzgerald adaptation within the narrative. This pivotal suggestion led her to immerse herself in Fitzgerald's works, enriching the novel's depth and thematic resonance.

Notable Quote:

"I had no idea how to get from A to Z. When I submitted the first draft to my writers group, one of the novelists suggested the Fitzgerald angle... I gave all credit to Blair Hurley for bringing Fitzgerald into the book."
— Sash Bischoff [03:30]

Balancing Dual Careers: Directing and Writing

Sash reflects on her extensive career in theater, detailing her roles as both an actress and director. She shares anecdotes from her time directing Dear Evan Hansen, expressing pride in her contributions and the invaluable lessons learned from managing a high-profile production.

However, the demands of directing left little room for her writing aspirations, prompting her to fully commit to her role as an author. This shift allowed her to focus exclusively on crafting her literary works, culminating in the completion of her second book.

Notable Quote:

"I was working on Broadway... directing is a full-time job. I've finished my second book and I'm editing it now. I'm fully being a writer right now."
— Sash Bischoff [10:00]

Insights into Sweet Fury's Plot and Themes

Sweet Fury is described as a literary thriller that intertwines the glamorous world of Hollywood with psychological depth. The protagonist, Lila Crane, is a beloved film actress preparing for a feminist adaptation of Fitzgerald's Tender Is the Night. As she delves into therapy with Jonah Gabriel to confront past traumas, her seemingly idyllic life begins to unravel, leading to a complex web of revenge and deceit both on and off the screen.

Sash emphasizes the novel's exploration of ambition, fame, and the impact of trauma, all set against the backdrop of a literary adaptation that enriches the narrative's complexity.

Notable Quote:

"It's not just in conversation with Tender Is the Night, but with Fitzgerald's body of work as a whole."
— Sash Bischoff [05:33]

The Importance of a Writing Group

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on the role of Sash's writing group in her creative process. She recounts how she initiated the group as a means of accountability and support, especially when juggling dual careers. The group, comprising fellow Princeton alumni, has been instrumental in providing feedback, fostering creativity, and overcoming writing obstacles.

Sash attributes much of her success in Sweet Fury to the collaborative efforts and diverse perspectives within her writing group, highlighting the mutual support and constructive criticism that propelled her work forward.

Notable Quote:

"These are some of my deepest, closest friends... They gave me so much in creating Sweet Fury. I don't know what I would do without this group."
— Sash Bischoff [14:27]

Writing Environment and Process

Contrasting the glamorous image often associated with authors, Sash paints a candid picture of her writing environment. She describes her small West Village apartment in New York, shared with her husband and six rescue animals. The backdrop of the pandemic lockdown added to the challenges, but also shaped her writing routine. Her pets, though a source of distraction, contribute to a comforting and lively atmosphere that underscores the authenticity of her writing space.

Notable Quote:

"I have a teeny, tiny desk... The animals all congregate around me, making it a kumbaya session while I write."
— Sash Bischoff [19:18]

Literary Influences and Reading Preferences

Sash identifies as a literary fiction enthusiast, citing authors like Lauren Groff, Donna Tartt, Michael Cunningham, and Lisa Taddeo as significant influences on her writing style and aspirations. She admires their command of language and narrative complexity, aiming to emulate their prowess in her own work.

Notable Quote:

"Lauren Groff's language is just... Donna Tartt feels like the sort of the queen of what I hope to do."
— Sash Bischoff [21:11]

Advice for Aspiring Authors

Concluding the discussion, Sash offers heartfelt advice to budding writers. She underscores the importance of writing consistently, even when faced with challenges, and the value of selective reading to shape one's literary voice. Drawing from her personal experiences, she emphasizes resilience in the face of criticism and the significance of believing in one's passion.

Notable Quote:

"If you know that this is what you really want to do, what keeps you up at night, you have to just believe in yourself and keep going. Eventually, there's going to be a yes."
— Sash Bischoff [22:42]

Closing Remarks

Zibby Owens wraps up the episode by congratulating Sash on her debut novel and expressing enthusiasm for its potential adaptation into other media formats. The conversation leaves listeners inspired by Sash's journey from theater to writing and motivated to pursue their creative endeavors with dedication and support.

---

Connect with Sash Bischoff:

• Sweet Fury is Sash Bischoff's first novel.
• Upcoming works include a multi-generational modern feminist adaptation of a Greek tragedy set against America's climate crisis.

Stay Tuned: For more engaging conversations with authors and story creators, subscribe to Totally Booked with Zibby and follow Zibby Owens on Instagram @zibbyowens.

Transcript

[Zibby Owens]

Hi, this is Zibby Owens and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books in my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author, and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to stay in the know, get insider insights and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbymedia.com and follow me on Instagram ibeowens Sash Bischoff is the author of Sweet Fury. Sash is a writer and theater director. She has written plays that have been developed at theaters throughout the U.S. as a director, she has worked on Broadway and off her Broadway national tours include Dear Evan Hansen, the Visit on the Town, how to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying, and Shrek. Sash grew up as an actor and won the National Arts Award for acting. She lives in New York with her husband and their many pets. Sweet Fury is her first novel.

[Zoe]

Welcome Sash. Thanks so much for coming on to talk about Sweet Fury. Your novel. So good, so twisty and awesome and escapist and oh my gosh, really, really fun. Congratulations.

[Sash Bischoff]

Thank you very much. And I have to tell you, this is my first podcast ever, so I am so thrilled. I feel like I'm starting at the top.

[Zoe]

Yeah, it doesn't get better than this, let me tell you. Well, I would argue this will be the most informal of all the podcasts because I just really love having conversations and well, wow, your first podcast. Welcome to the field. Okay, well, I often ask the hardest, most boring, annoying question first, which is to tell listeners about the book so you can practice your elevator pitch on our guinea pigs here.

[Sash Bischoff]

Yes, Sweet Fury is a literary thriller. The main character, Lila Crane, is America's sweetheart. She is a film actress adored the whole world over, and at the start of the book, she and her boyfriend, who's a famous film director, have moved to the West Village in New York because they are about to begin filming their feminist adaptation of F. Scott Fitzgerald's Tender Is the in which Lila is playing the leading role. And so to begin preparing for the role, she starts working with esteemed therapist Jonah Gabriel to dig into the trauma of her past. But as Lila's perfect life unravels, the characters of Sweet Fury soon became entangled in a deadly game of revenge in which everyone on screen and off plays a part.

[Zibby Owens]

Yes.

[Zoe]

I did not see where this was going. I see this all the time. Like, how many times do I have to remind people that I am like the most gullible reader? But I find such delight when things like go where you. Like where you took us. Which I will not reveal. But anyway, it was very, very clever. Anyway, okay, so you have this whole F. Scott Fitzgerald thing going. You have this Princeton thing going. You have ambition and fame and you have therapy and all of that. Where did this whole jumble come from? Not jumble. Cause it all makes sense in your book. How did you pick all these threads? Like, where did the story come from? Take us back.

[Sash Bischoff]

Yeah, well, so I began. I grew up as an actor and I was acting professionally throughout my childhood and then made the transition into directing. And that was my full time career up until the Pandemic. I went to school for writing and writing was always very important to me, but it was always secondary. And so I was directing and I was working on Broadway and off regularly, and I was the associate director and Evan Hansen from 2018 on. And so I was literally putting an actor into the show for that night when we got the call that Broadway was shutting down. So, I mean, it was just absolutely insane. All of a sudden the industry went away and so I pivoted and I just sort of said, I'm going to take this as a sign. I've always had this dream of being a writer. I'm going to try. And so obviously the acting and directing really influenced this book. It plays a huge part in this book. I began with two ideas. I sort of. I think this happens for a lot of writers, but I get these sort of inspirations and flashes. I had the. I knew that I wanted to document the relationship between a film actress and her therapist through their session notes together. And then I knew the big final twist at the end. So I had the beginning and at the end of the story. But I had no idea how to get from A to Z. When I submitted the first draft to my wonderful writers group, one of the novelists in the group said, you know, the themes and the idea that this book is exploring are really reminiscent of Tender is the Night. What if these characters, what if the film adaptation they were making was of Tender? At that point? I had actually. I'd never read Tender before. I'd only read the Great Gatsby. And so I read it and realized that her suggestion was genius. And so I give all credit to Blair Hurley, an amazing writer, for bringing Fitzgerald into This book. And the. More. I mean, I really went into a Fitzgerald rabbit hole where I literally read every single thing that he'd ever written and almost every book that ever written about him. And the deeper I dug, the more I realized that my book should be not just in conversation with Tender, but with his body of work as a whole.

[Zoe]

So cool. And you are in a writing group. I read at the end with Laura Hankin, who's been on this podcast, like, I don't know, multiple times.

[Zibby Owens]

My best friends.

[Zoe]

I adore her, actually. She was one of my very last podcasts before the pandemic in person.

[Zibby Owens]

Oh, my God.

[Zoe]

She was like, one of the last. And we did it. We made some joke when we did it because we did it so early that we were like, well, you know, in case, you know, something like, you never know what's going to happen with the world. But at least we got our podcast done. And then literally, the world, like, imploded, and we were, like, our fault. Did we make this happen?

[Sash Bischoff]

Do you miss doing it in person?

[Zoe]

So wait, go back to your child acting days.

[Zibby Owens]

How.

[Zoe]

Tell me more about that and what you did and how you got into it and how you feel about it.

[Sash Bischoff]

So I began acting when I was 6, and it was because I had this incurable shyness. I was that child that, like, when somebody would bend down to say hello, I would bury my face in my mother's thigh and for us to look at them. And my mom was like, this has gotta change. So she was like, theater. Theater is the answer. She had me audition for this regional production of A Christmas Carol, and I could sing. And so I sang my little song, and I got in, and, you know, the production finished, and my mom was like, okay, one and done. It's cute. Moving on. And I said, no. I found my passion, my calling. And so I began acting. I became obsessed with it. I sort of never do anything halfway. And so I was doing regional theater and community theater and children's theater. And then as I got into high school, I was living in San Diego. I started driving up to LA almost every day after school to do film and TV as well. And, I mean, I love acting. I still do. But there were a couple of things that sort of made me shift to directing. One is that as an actor, you are a very important piece, but a piece in the puzzle. And as a director, your job is to put all the pieces of the puzzle together. And I love that sort of creative challenge. I love working with the designers. I love working with all of the actors and digging into their character. I love sort of shaping the larger story. Directing is really just another form of storytelling, like writing. And I think the other reason which the theme sort of comes into this book in a different. From a different angle. But for me, being an actor, I found it really difficult to be constantly judged based on my looks. You know, there's an emphasis in both theater and TV and film for women, especially, of being young and beautiful and small and thin. And that became a major source of anxiety for me, particularly as a girl growing up and figuring out her own body. And I wanted to find a career where that was not going to be how my worth was judged.

[Zoe]

That makes total sense, by the way, when you just like, say, offhand, I used to drive up from San Diego after school to be. I mean, that is far. Just for people who don't know how that drive is. Like, I've been stuck in that drive, and that is commitment in and of itself.

[Sash Bischoff]

It was. It was totally ludicrous. Like, my mom would drive me so that I could prepare for my audition on the way up or whatever. And then on the way home, in the middle of the night, I had a frigging headlamp and I would do my homework in the passenger seat and we would cackle because I would, you know, if my mom would say something to me or I would notice something, I would look up and my mom would say, don't look up. Because it was like another headlight flashing and blinding her.

[Zoe]

Oh, my gosh. Well, that is commitment. I mean, wow. Real commitment. By the way, Dear Evan Hansen is probably my favorite show ever. I saw it multiple times. I've never cried as hard in the theater. Like, not even appropriate crying levels. Just, like, all out sobbing.

[Sash Bischoff]

Just ugly cry.

[Zoe]

Yeah, ugly crying. Yeah, ugly crying. And Dear Evan Hansen. And then I took my kids back to see it anyway, so good. So congratulations on that. You must feel so much pride.

[Sash Bischoff]

Thank you. Yeah, it was an amazing show to work on. It's just that was. You know, I'd worked on a number of Broadway shows before that, but that was the one where I really got to. I mean, it was an institution already. It was some sort of a machine when I entered the project. I wasn't there from the beginning. And so to be given that sort of seat where I was maintaining the show and sort of running both Broadway and the national tours was an incredible privilege. And I learned so, so much.

[Zoe]

Are you working on any shows now?

[Sash Bischoff]

Oh, absolutely not. Are you kidding me? This is like. This is A full time job. I am finished my second book and I'm like editing it now. So I'm just fully being a writer right now.

[Zoe]

Oh, my gosh. You already finished your second book. I can tell. Like if I spent more time with you, I would just be routinely made to feel unproductive. By what volume? No, no, not intentionally. I can just like you are one of these, like, super producers and that's awesome. So what is your second book?

[Sash Bischoff]

Well, I can't say too much about it, but basically it takes place on an island off the northeast coast of America. Takes place over the course of. I think it's going to be three generations, starting about now and then going into the future about 70 years. And what you find out over the course is one of the, one of the twists. So I can't tell you what it is, but that it is a modern feminist adaptation of a Greek tragedy. And it also deals with how it looks at the island as a microcosm as how America is dealing with the climate crisis.

[Zoe]

Oh, interesting.

[Sash Bischoff]

Yeah.

[Zoe]

Gosh. You already finished it? Wow.

[Sash Bischoff]

Well, it's a mess, but yes, it exists.

[Zoe]

I mean, that's okay. Once you have a mess, you can clean it up, right? It's getting, it's like getting it into the room to begin with. Oh, my goodness.

[Zibby Owens]

Today's episode is sponsored by Acorns. Acorns makes it easy to start automatically saving and investing so your money has a chance to grow for you, your kids, and your retirement. You don't need to be an expert. Acorns will recommend a diversified portfolio that fits you and your money goals. Acorns lets you invest with the spare money you've got right now. You can start with $5 or even just your spare change, so you don't need to feel like financial wellness is impossible. Acorns gives you small, simple steps to get you and your money back on track. And it's the new year when we all make New Year's resolutions. Last year I made a resolution to go to the gym more often. I tried to say I would go once a week. Basically, I think I've gone to the gym like three times in the whole last year. But I am not giving up on my resolutions. And saving money and making smart financial decisions is a resolution that Acorns makes.

[Zoe]

It really easy to keep.

[Zibby Owens]

By the way, I invested with Acorns in 2023 and in my portfolio I am up 20.24%, which is really awesome. So you should do it too. It's amazing. Head to acorns.com books or download the Acorns app to start saving and investing for your future. Today, paid client Endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns tier one compensation provided investing involves risk. Acorn Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor view important disclos acorns.com books Today's episode has been sponsored by Wayfair. I don't know about you, but I am so excited to get rid of all the holiday clutter and make room for spring refresh in my own home and office. I trust Wayfair more than any other brand, and I'm probably their most frequent shopper because I decorated all of Zy's bookshop on Wayfair and then all of the Zibby Media offices in New York City on Wayfair, plus my own home. I am obsessed. Wayfair has stuff for everyone and everything. Think carpets. Think comfy poofs for kids. Think couches and tables and office chairs and cute knickknacks and everything you can need to make your space feel refreshed and cozy and wonderful. Plus, it comes so fast and the prices are amazing. There's something for every style and every home and office. No matter your space or your budget, Wayfair will make it easy to tackle all your New Year's home goals with endless inspiration for every space and budget, whether you need a light refresh or an organization overhaul. So give your home the refresh it needs with wayfair. Head to wayfair.com right now. That's W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every Home so.

[Zoe]

You have this writing group you've been in forever with your college friends. How does that work and how have you all achieved success as a result? Like, what is the secret of your writing group that we should all put into? Well, should we all get writing groups? I'm not even in a writing group. Like, tell me the whole thing.

[Sash Bischoff]

I mean, it depends based on the writer, but for me it has been truly my lifeline. I mean, after my husband, they are number two. The acknowledgments basically. So I actually started the group myself. I was coming, I went to Princeton and they have an amazing creative writing department there. And coming out of that, I knew that I was going to pursue a career as a theater director, but I also knew that I wanted to continue to write and that that was going to be hard to sort of pursue two careers in tandem. And so I had this idea to create a group to be, as a sort of accountability measure for myself to keep writing. And so I sort of reached out. I actually just found these emails a month or so ago to all of these Princeton people from my class whose emails were. They're all about to expire. Our Princeton Edu all about to go away. And so I was like, quick guys, like, does anybody want to do this with me? And a lot of people said no. A bunch of people said yes. And then they did it for a year or two and then went on to different careers as you do. But two of the writers from my group, Blair Hurley, who's published two books, and Daria Lovell, whose debut Aftertaste is incredible and is coming out in May with Simon and Schuster, they said yes. So they've been there from the start. And then Laura Hankin joined a few years ago and then Lovell Holder, whose book is debut is coming out in December of next year. And so the five of us have, you know, for a while we were meeting every two weeks now, it's whenever we can. But it's, it's really been my secret sauce because, I mean, these are some of my deepest, closest friends. You know, I have known them for almost 20 years now, which is insane. We all write in a slightly different genre, so there's no, there's truly no competition. I know that we all have our backs and our best interests at heart and I value their feedback and their thoughts so much. And they really, I mean, they were in the weeds with me in creating Sweet Fury. And it is, I mean, Blair Hurley was bringing in F. Scott Fitzgerald into the book and, you know, Daria was sort of helping me with all of the twists in terms of the plot. They, each one of them gave me so much in creating Sweet Fury. So I don't know what I would do without this group.

[Zoe]

Well, I bet you helped them with theirs too, right? I mean, it goes both ways. I mean, I think it's sometimes easier to see something that's going right or wrong in someone else's book than your own book.

[Sash Bischoff]

I totally agree. Oh God, there is. I mean, this, as you know, is just like such a twisty, plot driven book. I was never a plotter. Now I am, but I used to be a pantser. And I really feel like I learned Sweet Fury taught me how to plot a novel, you know, how to, how to write. But there would be so many times during the drafting where I'd be in the middle line and say, oh my God, how do I, how do I fix this? I've written myself into a corner, you Know. So I thank my group for helping me get out of those corners.

[Zoe]

Oh, my gosh. So exciting. This feels like it should be its own adaptation, which, of course, would kind of be like, meta with the whole, you know, movie, the whole thing. Is there talk of that and.

[Sash Bischoff]

Yeah, yeah. Nothing I can say, but yes, it is very much, you know, being talked about and in the works, and we're trying to make it happen. That would be my dream.

[Zoe]

Do you have stars who you kind of imagined in your head for any of these roles?

[Sash Bischoff]

Oh, good question. I mean, taking sort of age away, I feel like I don't know if this happens to you, but, like, the people that I grow up with, it's when they're sort of in their 20s and 30s. I think of them as always in their 20s and 30s, but when, like, Charlize Theron would be amazing. Lila. Jonah. I think I kind of wrote with Eddie Redmayne in my mind.

[Zoe]

Oh, okay. All right.

[Sash Bischoff]

Have people that popped up for you that you picked?

[Zoe]

I was thinking more like the woman from this is. I can't even make a sense. Don Draper, the ad show that. Oh, my God. What is the name of the Mad Men? Ok. You know the. The wife in Mad Men?

[Sash Bischoff]

Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Zoe]

You know, like, with the blonde hair, how she's, like, so perfect, but I'm.

[Sash Bischoff]

Not gonna give it the name. But, yes.

[Zoe]

I can't remember her name either. But I kind of. I mean that. I kind of got those vibes, too, you know, because she was so, like, everything was okay. I don't know. She had that. Yeah, that's who I was. I was kind of picturing her if I could remember her name. Yeah, maybe people listening are, like, yelling out at their cars like, no, no, it's this actress.

[Sash Bischoff]

How can you both not know this person's name?

[Zoe]

I know exactly. What is wrong with you guys? Tell me about your writing process and also paint a picture of the environment. Right now you're in this beautiful glass room with palm fronds behind you, looking like you're in, I don't know, the Beverly Hills Hotel brought to life or something. What was it like writing this book? And was it as glamorous as it may seem?

[Sash Bischoff]

100%? No, not where I write. I write. I mean, I'm in my. My husband and I. So I have. I'm a big animal lover and I have. I rescue. I just have this bleeding heart to rescue animals in need. And so I have six animals at the moment. I know two dogs and four Cats, all rescues. And basically, you know, we live in this teeny, tiny apartment in the West Village. And the animals all get along. They all cuddle with one another. The dogs and cats are best friends. It's very cute. But, you know, I began this book at the start of the pandemic, so nothing about my writing life was luxurious or fun. I was basically, like, in lockdown and not going outside except to walk the dogs with a mask on. But, yeah, you know, I. I have my teeny tiny desk, you know, my teeny tiny chair in the corner, and I just sit down and put my headphones on and listen to some music, and I start. I start writing and. But the funny thing about my. My writing situation is that the animals all congregate around me and sort of like a kumbaya session. So, like, the two dogs are splayed on the floor, belly up. And then I have a cat that loves to, like, step on the keys. I have a cat that sits in my lap. I have a cat that literally drapes himself over the back of my shoulder so that I have to hunch over to keep him there. And then I have a feral cat that, like, hides in the closet.

[Zoe]

Oh, my gosh.

[Sash Bischoff]

Wow.

[Zoe]

See, I would never have brought. I would never have thought. Who knew, you know, that there was, you know, Noah's Ark basically in your comfort.

[Sash Bischoff]

You know, I can do this, but I have them all around me.

[Zoe]

Oh, my gosh. That's so amazing. So aside from your writing group people and all of their books, which, of course, you're reading when you go for some fun reading when you're. And not F. Scott Fitzgerald deep diving, what are some of the things you like to read or the genres you like best or a book you've loved or something like that?

[Sash Bischoff]

I'm a literary fiction girl all the way. I think, like, some of my favorite authors are Lauren Groff. I think her language is just. And I dream of being as good a writer as she is. I love. I mean, Donna Tartt feels like the sort of the queen of what I hope to do at some point in my life. I love Michael Cunningham. I love Lisa Tadeo. I feel like she and I have a lot of overlap in terms of what we're interested in and stylistically. And I just am obsessed with every single one of her books. Anya and Agihara. I love. The list goes on.

[Zoe]

Love it. It's so. You know, I've read books by all those authors, and as you kept saying, one after another, I'm like, oh, I Never list them in my favorites, but I forget about them. Not necessarily forget, but like, oh, yeah, them too. But it says a lot like that. That's your.

[Sash Bischoff]

It must be very hard for you, interviewing all of these authors to say who your favorites are.

[Zoe]

Oh, no, I'm not saying I have favorites. I mean, yeah, I mean, that's true, too. But it's just like that says so much. Like, that's such a shorthand for the kind of writing you do. Like, it's such a good description. Those authors in particular. I don't know, I thought that, like, you get such a sense, like. Yes, of course. I have a total sense of their sort of general writing aesthetic. And anyway, you know what I mean. Okay, so advice to aspiring authors. Do you have any? Yeah, the big sigh.

[Sash Bischoff]

Yeah, I mean, so much. But I mean, I think, first of all, you know, I think the adage of writing every day is really true. Some people can't do that. There are times in my life that I can't. Like, for example, right now with publicity efforts. There's no way in hell that I am writing right now. But, you know, as often as you can just put a pen to paper, keep. Put your butt in the seat, read, but also read well, you know, choose. Choose selectively the books that you want to read, because it does, I think, have a huge influence on the right. Not, not to say that you're going to start sounding like your dream author, but it will have an impact on the direction that you go in the way that your mind works and what thoughts are floating through your mind. And I think the biggest one for me is I didn't really go down this road, but there were a number of times over the course of my life, because I was always writing, even though it was secondary, where I was told, no, that I wasn't good, sort of cut down. And that is, you know, part of the game. Everybody experiences it. Even the Pulitzer Prize winners experience it at some point. But that deep down inside you, if you know that this is what you really want to do, what keeps you up at night, you have to just believe in yourself and keep going. And eventually there's going to be a yes.

[Zoe]

I love that. Very inspiring. Okay, well, sweet fury, amazing. Congratulations. I hope you survived your first podcast. Okay.

[Sash Bischoff]

That was easy and fun.

[Zoe]

Good luck on the rest and all the crazy publicity you are about to do. And yeah, thank you for the immersive experience and all the shocks, little shocks and twists and all that. So thank you.

[Sash Bischoff]

Thank you, Zoe. This was delightful. Thank you.

[Zoe]

All right. Bye, Sash. Okay, bye. Bye.

[Sash Bischoff]

Bye.

[Zibby Owens]

Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review. Follow me on Instagram, Iby Owens and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.