Totally Booked with Zibby

Guest: Shawn Johnson, Author of KISS THE FIRE: 7 Ways to Get Back Up When You Want to Give Up
Host: Zibby Owens
Date: October 31, 2025

Episode Overview

In this emotionally resonant episode, Zibby Owens welcomes Shawn Johnson—pastor, author, and mental health advocate—to discuss his new book, KISS THE FIRE: 7 Ways to Get Back Up When You Want to Give Up. The conversation centers on Shawn’s deeply personal journey through anxiety, depression, and a recent incurable brain disease diagnosis. He shares the transformative power of vulnerability, the importance of community, and practical strategies for resilience. Zibby and Shawn delve into trauma, faith, leadership, and the universal struggle of facing despair head-on.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Shawn’s Motivation for the Book

• Personal Crisis Turned Purpose:

  • Shawn describes learning about his incurable brain disease:

    “About three years ago, I was at a doctor's appointment with my wife... to our utter surprise, we were told, you don’t have a pinched nerve. You have an incurable brain disease.” (03:56)

  • Initially resisted writing about it, but felt compelled to share lessons that might help others:

    “If I can write about going through a tough time and some things that I believe have helped me get through it thus far and that could help someone else… that’d be something really worthwhile.” (05:09)

• Difference from Previous Work:

  • Shawn’s first book, Attacking Anxiety, chronicled surviving and recovering from anxiety;
    This book, by contrast, is written from the “still in it” perspective:

    “The difference with this book is, it’s written from the perspective of I’m still in it.” (05:37)

The Power of Vulnerability in Leadership

• Hiding vs. Sharing Pain:

  • Shawn recounts hiding his anxiety as a pastor, feeling like a “hypocrite” and “embarrassed.”

  • The turning point: after a breakdown, intensive therapy, and a counselor’s wisdom—

    “God only uses broken people because what other kinds are there?” (09:35)

  • His honest confession to his church, expecting rejection, instead led to greater connection:

    “I went back to the church and I told them everything... I said, if you'll have me, I'll still be your pastor. And I thought the thing was going to fold. And I think the church doubled. It was the craziest thing. I didn’t see any of that coming.” (10:20)

Connecting Through Stories

• The Weightlifting Analogy:

  • A gym near-miss with too much weight and no help becomes a metaphor for silent suffering:

    “I was surrounded by people who would have loved to help. They just didn’t know I was struggling... There’s a lot of freedom in finally admitting to people around me how bad I was hurting.” (12:41)

• How Sharing Inspires Others:

  • Zibby remarks:

    “You really take us to you just totally despairing...and then show us how it is possible to work your way through... in such detail.” (05:59)

  • The story of a suicidal church member whose life was changed after hearing Shawn’s transparency:

    “It really gives you goosebumps to read.” (11:03)

Living With Depression and a Degenerative Disease

• Daily Struggle:
  • Shawn’s condition means waking up every morning with drastically low dopamine:

    “When I wake up in the morning… I wake up at a deficit. So each day for me right now... starts, as far as feelings go, with a bleh.” (16:14)

  • He emphasizes pushing through and waiting for the medicine—and hope—to kick in:

    “I do want to go live today. I do want to go be a dad and a husband... I just have to remind myself that they’re really worth doing.” (17:43)

Notable Lessons and Advice

• Finding Purpose in Pain:

  • On not giving up:

    “When I look back, God attached some sort of purpose to that pain... By not giving up, you get to eventually see what that purpose is.” (18:42)

  • The impact of his vulnerability is illustrated by a mother’s letter about her young, suicidal daughter finding hope after hearing his story:

    “She now has so much hope and doesn’t want to die anymore and wants to fight for her life and her future.” (20:25)

• Why He Writes:

  • Shawn has no grand ambitions for fame or sales:

    “I really just thought, like, I’m going to do my best to be honest about what I’ve been through. And I really hope it gets in the hands of somebody who’s hurting and that it helps them.” (24:15)

On Trauma and Resilience

• Shawn’s Childhood:
  • Zibby asks about his alluded-to traumatic past:

    “My mom was a 17 year old heroin addict when she had got pregnant with me... When the biological father found out, he moved to another state, never to be seen again... She took me in a little car seat and put me on a stranger’s porch with a note attached to me...” (22:06)

  • More detail in his first book, Attacking Anxiety.
  • Candid about struggles, but proud of the loving family he’s now built, while acknowledging they’re “real messed up, like everybody.” (23:37)

Promoting the Book

• Reluctance to Self-Promote:
  • Shawn is honest about discomfort with book promotion:

    “The thing I actually hate about releasing a book is talking about it. I just... never wanted anyone to think, like, oh, he’s a kind of check me out guy...” (24:46)

  • But he’s motivated by the hope that it will reach readers in need:

    “The more I’ve been honest about that, the more I’ve talked to so many people that are like, me too. Me too... But they never felt like they could admit it.” (26:06)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Admitting Brokenness:

  “God only uses broken people because what other kinds are there?” —Shawn Johnson (09:35)

• On Connecting Over Struggle:

  “I was surrounded by people who would have loved to help. They just didn’t know I was struggling.” —Shawn Johnson (12:41)

• On Giving Up vs. Persevering:

  “By not giving up, you get to eventually see what that purpose is, and...there’s so much peace and joy and fulfillment in life when you experience that.” —Shawn Johnson (18:38)

• On Faith and Shared Humanity:

  “It doesn’t matter if you believe in something...the most vulnerable, authentic emotions that we all share, like, this is the way to do it.” —Zibby Owens (27:23)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:56] Shawn’s diagnosis and writing motivation
• [06:53] Panic attacks, therapy, and pastoral vulnerability
• [09:35] “God only uses broken people” story
• [11:24] The weightlifting story: learning to ask for help
• [16:14] Living with his disease: chemical depression
• [18:24] Advice for people who feel like giving up
• [22:06] Shawn’s traumatic childhood story
• [24:15] Why Shawn writes (and discomfort with promotion)
• [27:20] Zibby on universal connection and faith

Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is raw, honest, and compassionate, shifting between heartbreak and hope. Both Zibby and Shawn speak candidly about loss, mental health, faith, and finding meaning in pain. Their mutual respect and deep empathy create a safe space for listeners grappling with despair.

Final Takeaway:
Shawn’s journey and actionable wisdom offer hope: even in the toughest moments, sharing your story, seeking help, and refusing to give up can lead to profound personal and communal transformation.