Stacy Waldman Bass, LIGHTKEEPER: A Memoir Through the Lens of Love and Loss

Summary

Totally Booked with Zibby

Guest: Stacy Waldman Bass, "Lightkeeper: A Memoir Through the Lens of Love and Loss"

Date: September 18, 2025
Host: Zibby Owens

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Episode Overview

This episode features an intimate conversation between host Zibby Owens and photographer-author Stacy Waldman Bass about her memoir, Lightkeeper: A Memoir Through the Lens of Love and Loss. The discussion dives deep into themes of love, profound loss, the complexities of family grief, memory, and the healing power of photography and storytelling. Stacy shares how her journey through personal tragedy—including the deaths of her father, cousins, and mother—shaped her life, family dynamic, creative work, and ultimately her first memoir.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Stacy’s Background and the Genesis of "Lightkeeper"

• Stacy is primarily a photographer by trade and passion; writing was once a private, secondary pursuit ([06:33]).
• The memoir is rooted in the sudden, tragic loss of her father, who died in a seaplane crash along with Stacy’s two cousins and a family friend, fracturing her close-knit family ([06:33]–[07:58]).
• The complexity of familial grief, particularly the aftermath and tension between her mother and aunt—"the ripples lasted forever" ([06:33]).

"The silencing of the memory was a really difficult thing. Like not being able to speak about my dad out loud in front of my extended family... felt the worst kind of censorship. And I think that's when I turned to the writing." — Stacy ([08:21])

2. The Process and Purpose of Writing the Memoir

• Writing began as a private act to process feelings and keep memories alive; only later did it become a public project ([08:21]–[11:34]).
• Inspired to preserve family history and recount pivotal events for future generations, especially her children.
• The book became not just about loss, but about how family members were remembered, and the consequences of unspoken grief.

"My purpose in writing it is to collect the memories that I feel like are important to hold and to have them in a place that I can share with my family, my kids and their kids and kids to come." — Stacy ([09:37])

3. Losing Her Mother and the "Living Tribute"

• After her father’s sudden death, when her mother was later diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, Stacy resolved to honor her differently ([11:34]).
• She created a “living tribute,” posting photos and memories daily on Facebook, which helped her mother feel supported and connected, and resonated widely ([12:30]).

"The process of sharing... which eventually I'm now calling lightkeeping—keeping the light alive of people who we've lost. And I think that's the combination... made me feel like there is an opportunity to help other people." — Stacy ([13:44])

4. The Ongoing Impact of Grief on Family Relationships

• The accident led her aunt (mother of the lost cousins) to pull away, causing loss on multiple levels—including the absence of family connection.
• Stacy describes feeling “hung out to dry” and profoundly alone, despite loving her aunt throughout the estrangement ([14:31]–[15:24]).
• The memoir provided a channel for finally processing these complicated emotions when her aunt passed, affording Stacy freedom to tell her story.

"I guess I feel like it was a sacrifice, it was worth making in the hopes that there would be some breakthrough at some point, that she would look at me one day and say, my dream, I guess, is that she would say, this was so unfair. I'm sorry that I wasn't able to allow you to grieve also. But that never happened." — Stacy ([15:24])

5. Portraits of Her Parents & Evoking Place

• Zibby praises how vividly Stacy brings to life not only her parents as parents but as vibrant young people.
• Camp Birchmont, Golden Door spa, and Westport, Connecticut, are described with sensory detail, grounding the memoir and readers in time and place ([17:27]–[18:43]).
• Shared personal anecdotes (both Zibby and Stacy have family connections to Birchmont and the Golden Door) create a warm, relatable tone.

6. Family, Body Image, and Generational Patterns

• Reflects on her mother’s relationship with dieting—not as a source of shame, but as a kind of wellness and self-love typical for her generation.
• Stacy herself has a complicated relationship with her body but attributes her resilience and confidence largely to her parents’ positive influence ([24:45]–[26:50]).

"I think that I got so much confidence infused from my parents... I think that is what came through. Even though she was dieting, she wasn't... looking in the mirror disapprovingly at herself." — Stacy ([24:45])

7. The Search for Signs and the Continuing Connection with Lost Loved Ones

• Stacy is certain that everyday “signs” are indications her parents are present: swans appearing at her dock, deer at a wedding, encounters with well-known locals like Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward ([28:06]).
• Visiting mediums further reinforced her connection, though “signs” are primarily personally meaningful rather than factual ([28:06]–[33:33]).

"I feel 100% certain that the signs are indications that he's here and she's here. I talk to them daily." — Stacy ([28:06])

• Zibby mentions recent neuroscience showing that writing helps alleviate the physiological burden of grief ([33:33]).

8. Final Reflections

• Stacy shares how writing the memoir has shifted how she holds grief in her body—"I'm holding it in my body differently, which I didn't really know could ever happen" ([33:33]).
• Advocates for keeping lost loved ones' memory alive rather than trying to “get over” loss: “I want to think of them always... remember them as much as I possibly can” ([32:06]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Writing as Healing:
  "The writing was really something I did in private... a way of venting all of the complicated feelings that I was having." — Stacy ([08:21])

• On Family and Complicated Grief:
  "People felt that my aunt needed more support in that moment. And I think it's a bad idea for any of us to put grief in hierarchy..." — Stacy ([08:21])

• On Signs from Loved Ones:
  "There were lots of things like that that I feel like I look for them, but not in a way that I am creating them, but that I'm open to receiving them as messages." — Stacy ([28:06])

• On Body Image and Generational Lessons:
  "I've always thought it ironic. Like, she, as I indicated, she wasn't much of a cook, and I'm not much of a cook, but my daughter just graduated culinary school, so there's obviously some attempt to turnaround generations of not being able to do much in the kitchen." — Stacy ([26:28])

• On Grief's Duration:
  "30 years later, I can say that, you know, grief is not over... It doesn't mean that you're not functioning... They can exist at the same time." — Stacy ([32:06])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Stacy introduces her story and family tragedy: [06:33]
• Discussing the loss of her father and family aftermath: [07:58]–[08:21]
• How writing and photography became her outlet: [08:21]–[11:34]
• The “living tribute” to her mother: [12:30]–[14:31]
• How grief changed family dynamics: [14:31]–[15:24]
• Evocative memories of childhood, parents, and place: [17:27]–[18:43]
• Body image and mother-daughter dynamics: [24:45]–[26:50]
• Signs from loved ones and the meaning they hold: [28:06]–[32:06]
• Reflections on grief, healing, and the writing process: [33:33]

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Tone, Style, and Closing

The conversation is reflective, candid, and emotionally rich, with both Zibby and Stacy sharing personal anecdotes and connecting across generational lines. Stacy’s warmth, humility, and openness set the tone, while Zibby provides empathy and insightful prompts, making the discussion accessible and meaningful for listeners—especially those navigating their own journeys through loss.

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Episode Sign-Off:
"Thank you for keeping keeping the light and for sharing your experience, which I'm sure will help other people." — Zibby ([33:59])

Transcript

[Zibby Owens]

Hi listeners. We have totally booked live coming up this fall and I hope you'll be a part of it. We have three events in New York City, September 19th, 25th and 30th in New York where I'll be doing six interviews live each day. We also have a petite retreat in Greenwich on October 4th. Go to zibbemedia.com and event or and or eventbrite and search the events and please come. I can't wait to meet you in person.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

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Fresh adult look at childhood gems like Harriet the Spy and Are you there God? It's me, Margaret. Want to get the most out of what you read and be entertained along the way? The Foxed page is for you. Hi, this is Zibby Owens and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have time to read books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to stay in the know. Get insider insights and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbymedia.com and follow me on Instagram ibbyoans Stacy Waldman Bass is the author of Light A Memoir through the Lens of Love and Loss. Stacy is an author, artist and photographer. From her first solo exhibition in 1988, Stacy's fine artwork has become part of numerous private, corporate and hotel collections and her images and unique perspective continues to tap into the emotion and sensibility of a wide spectrum of viewers. Select pieces of her fine art are currently represented by Swoon Gallery in Westport County, Connecticut. Always with an interest in all things visual, her career ambitions have taken her through numerous magazine positions, including a senior position at fine art photography startup On Seeing. Stacy is a graduate of NYU School of Law, where she concentrated on copyright, art and entertainment law, and later used her expertise to become Vice President of a publicly traded motion picture and television company, Savoy Pictures Entertainment. Stacy has been capturing the essence of place through an intuitive use of light, color and composition for almost two decades. Her signature images of architecture, interiors and gardens have resulted in three solo exhibitions and numerous awards. Her photography has been featured extensively in books and magazines including At Home, where she was lead photographer for more than 10 years, garden design, Luxe Interiors and Design, House Beautiful, Elle Decor, Veranda Ad, the Wall Street Journal, and many more. She is the author of two best selling and critically acclaimed monographs, several celebrating the American landscape in the Garden and Gardens at First Light. Lightkeeper is her first memoir. Welcome Stacy. I will not call you Sierra, your short lived little nickname in the book.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

Oh boy, you did a close read.

[Zibby Owens]

I did a close read. Thanks for coming on to talk about Lightkeeper, a Memoir through the Lens of love and loss. Congrats on the book.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it and I was especially grateful to be included in your most anticipated fall pick. So thank you so much for that. I was sort of stunned and surprised I didn't get the note in advance. So I just sort of discovered it on your social media and kind of exclaimed out loud in my kitchen, I'm sorry.

[Zibby Owens]

We tried to reach everybody. We tried. I didn't do it on social, but we tried to find the right emails and everything. So sorry. Came as a surprise, but no apologies.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

It was actually a lovely surprise. So thank you.

[Zibby Owens]

Thank you very much. I really, really enjoyed the book. I really did. I want other people to read it. It's really good and your story is beautiful, but also the way you told it I found very original and I'm a fan of the book.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

Thank you. It means a lot. I know you read a lot, so.

[Zibby Owens]

Why don't you tell listeners a little bit about your story and why you decided at this point to write this book.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

Well, I guess what I'll say since you know, your listeners probably aren't aware I'm really a photographer by profession and by passion. So writing is or has always been more of a recreational thing and not so much my, my primary purpose. But just about 30 years ago coming up, August 26th will be 30 years. My father was killed in a plane crash on Block Island. He was piloting the plane, it was a private seaplane and he had my two first cousins aboard along with one of my cousin's friends. And I guess it's obviously, as you can already imagine, having said only a few sentences, that when you think about the horrific loss of losing someone in an accident in any context, and then add to it the complication of having his only sister's only two children with him. The ripples lasted forever. Essentially. They're still around. Really complex family dynamic. A very, very close knit family from up until that very second. And it became extremely complicated to unravel what was happening in terms of not just the grief that we were all experiencing in different ways, but some of the blame as well, which I think my aunt and uncle, for very understandable reasons carried with them for as long as they were alive.

[Zibby Owens]

Which is not fair, by the way. I mean, you go in, in the book, not that anything is fair and grief, I mean emotions aren't logical and all of that, but you go through like there is no explanation for what happened with the plane and you say if it Were today, we'd have a lot more information. But you just never got. Everything seemed okay. We still don't know what happened to the plane.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

We don't really know. I mean, there were some eyewitness accounts that suggested that my father was attempting to land in the water as it was a seaplane off the coast of Loch island, and. And as he was coming in for a landing, apparently, or so it seems, he saw some kids sort of come up out of the water. They had been swimming, maybe underwater, came up out of the water and obviously immediately tried to abort the landing to avoid hurting the kids. And in that process, perhaps too strong of a pullback on, I don't know, caused the plane to veer toward, really, like, an electrical wire which flung it into, of all things, a gas station. So there was an enormous explosion and nobody survived. Very sadly, there was an older woman on the ground who was filling her car with gas, who also died in the crash, which is horrific. You're right that the blame piece is unfair. I think that what's so challenging in this particular circumstance is that because my parents and my aunt and uncle were very close and their social lives were intertwined, it was hard for people to manage what they were feeling coming from two different places. My mother had lost her husband. My aunt had lost her children. And for better or for worse, mostly for worse, people felt that my aunt needed more support in that moment. And I think it's a bad idea for any of us to put grief in hierarchy, as you suggested. Everyone is experiencingly different. And as I think I ultimately say at the end of the book, it took me almost 30 years to realize that most of what I was still carrying around with me was not the PTSD from the crash, which I carried with me for many, many years and tried my best to process. But really how I was treated by my aunt in particular, who I absolutely adored, I don't think with any mal intent, just literally couldn't help herself. She was so distraught and really never recovered. So the silencing of the memory was a really difficult thing. Like not being able to speak about my dad out loud in front of my extended family was. It felt the worst kind of censorship. And I think that's when I turned to the writing. The writing was really something I did in private, that mostly in private, that was a way of venting all of the complicated feelings that I was having at some point. I started early on, when Facebook was still sort of young. I started to post a picture of my dad on his birthday or anniversary of the accident, just say a couple of words about the loss and what I was feeling. And I think at the time, people weren't quite doing that on Facebook yet. Now there's a lot of that. But back then, it was more about, here's what I ate today, and I went to this restaurant and isn't this a beautiful place? I visited. It was less about people sharing raw emotion. And even though I only did it a couple of times a year, it was obvious that it was resonating with people who were responding with, not only thank you for sharing this, but thank you for articulating what I also feel about my loss in my life. And I lost someone in an accident or something like that. So I think that the writing kind of. At some point, I realized that I was needing to do more of the writing. And I remember at some point I said to my mother, I think I'm going to write a book. I think this is a book. I don't know if it will ever go anywhere, but. But my purpose in writing it is to collect the memories that I feel like are important to hold and to have them in a place that I can share with my family, my kids and their kids and kids to come. And her first reaction at the time was, what about Ann? Meaning, what about my aunt? How is she gonna react? And I kind of said, I don't know, it doesn't really matter because I'm not looking to publish this, and let's not worry about that. Let's just. Let me just do this thing that I'm doing. And then many years later, my mom was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, as you know from the book. And I think because my dad had died in such an instantaneous way with no preparation and therefore no opportunity to have closure, even though closure is a tricky word, but to even there was no chance to say goodbye. And I think that it taught me so horrible way to learn a lesson like that, but it taught me how important it is to do something differently when you do know that someone is likely to pass. And because my mom was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, and we all know that that is typically one that is not survivable. I sort of braced myself for this is not going to end well, but what can I do differently now that I have an opportunity to do something, what can I do differently than I did I didn't have a chance to do with my dad? And that's when I started doing this living tribute for her where I posted a picture every day On Facebook with something about her. It was not chronological. A picture was something I thought up in the middle. You know, when I woke up that morning, I just grabbed a picture that I felt like sharing. And it was really extraordinary how it fortified her during that battle. She. She connected to this invisible community. Maybe not so invisible, but growing and invisible community who asked her questions and engaged with her about even minutiae. Like, oh, I remember I had a purple sweater just like that, whatever it was. And along the way, it became clear that that was something that was helping other people. The process of sharing, which eventually I'm now calling light. Keeping. Keeping the light alive of people who we've lost. And I think that that's the combination of the experience with sharing that living tribute for her and how cathartic it was for me, made me feel like there is an opportunity to help other people. You know, everybody has a drawer full or a box full or a slide projector full of old photos. You know, take a look at those pictures. Explore what's outside the. Outside the frame. Sure, it's a picture of your parents at the beach in 1965, but where were they? Were they on their honeymoon? What did they do before they got there? Were they with anybody else? Like, those kinds of questions are fun and actually incredibly restorative to explore.

[Zibby Owens]

So true. Made me want to go digging up all my family photos. And I'm so sorry, by the way, for all of the loss that you've had in your life. I know you started off just talking about. I mean, it's a lot. And the fact that it fractured your family back then and even continuing through. I mean, your aunt didn't attend your mom's memorial service. Did I get that right? I mean. Cause she couldn't handle it. And I. Obviously, none of us can judge what it could possibly be like to lo. I mean, it's unthinkable, of course. Of course, but it put you in such a. It just like hung you out to dry in a way and made. It must have made you feel so incredibly alone. And you still loved your aunt through all of it. And I know that's not the point of the book. I just was sort of upset by the treatment of that.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

Yeah, it's upsetting. Honestly, it's upsetting. It took me a lot of years to sort of face that fact. I think I was very conscious. You know, I would say to my husband, I'm going to go over to Anne's for a bit. And he would say, what do you mean, a bit because ultimately I would go for five minutes, they were intending to drop something off, and I would be there for hours. Because I was captivated by her. She was someone who I was so really connected to in so many ways. We shared a lot of common interests. So I felt like I owed it to my family, which had now diminished to almost nothing. I mean, everybody was gone at that point when my mom passed away, practically. So I felt like if I don't, like you said, kind of put myself in this situation, then there'll be nothing. And I guess I feel like it was a sacrifice, it was worth making in the hopes that there would be some breakthrough at some point, that she would look at me one day and say, my dream, I guess, is that she would say, this was so unfair. I'm sorry that I wasn't able to allow you to grieve also. But that never happened. And even till the moment she died, I mean, I was with her close to the very end and had been there daily to help. And there was, I confess, a longing, like, the longer I'm there on any particular visit, maybe there'll be a breakthrough. Maybe something will happen that she will be able to say something like that to me. So I feel like the book to. Back to your original question, because it's been a little bit meandering, but I think back to your original question, this book now, because I've come to another place in that she has passed. So it gave me, in some ways, I felt less pressure to say what I needed to say in private, and also opportunity and freedom to say what I wanted to say in public. And those two things together felt, like, important to do both for my own journey and potentially to help other people.

[Zibby Owens]

Well, it's a gift to give others. It is. By the way, you included so much about your parents so that we were able to get to know them not just as your parents, but as young people themselves, which was really fun. I had a child go to Pierce Camp Birchmont, by the way. So.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

What?

[Zibby Owens]

Yeah.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

Oh, my God, my favorite place. So, really currently.

[Zibby Owens]

Not anymore, but.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

Oh, yeah, that's amazing. And did he or she like it? Yes.

[Zibby Owens]

Loved. Totally loved.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

And, oh, that's so. What a nice coincidence.

[Zibby Owens]

I know. Seeing the picture of your mom when she was there from, like, forever ago, and all the stories that you tell, how central that was to, you know, her life in particular. And all of it, not only Pierce Camp Bridgemont, but really Connecticut, too. And even the story of finding the house with the developer, Jay, who was there, and, like, Knowing that was the right house and the views and Westport and I don't know, it just so situated me in a particular place there, there. Like you just brought us along with you in such a tangible way.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

Thank you. I'm really touched to hear that. And I love that you had the camp connection as well.

[Zibby Owens]

Yes.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

That's so lovely. The camp, as you know, still looks exactly the. Oh.

[Zibby Owens]

As most camps, I mean, it's like there's no. There is no time. Do you mind if I read a little bit from one of these? I have so many.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

No, not at all.

[Zibby Owens]

Dog eared pages here. Oh, I also went to the Golden Door with my mom who used to go all the time, and that was also in the book a lot. I was like, oh my gosh. I went once when I was 16 as like a birthday present. That's like, thank you.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

Right. Well, I think that you and I are probably 10 or so years apart, so maybe our moms are about that distance apart, but they could have been there at the same time. You never know.

[Zibby Owens]

Very true. I know. I need to bring up my picture of my one time. Yeah, they always do a group picture.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

Yep, yep.

[Zibby Owens]

My gosh. Okay. The horseback riding trip too. I know. I kept dog earing all the parts about Birchmont which were beautiful. Well, even just the way this was all the way at the beginning, maybe I should pick something closer to the end. Well, let's just talk about body image for a minute since we were talking about the Golden Door and. Yeah, you know, obviously at that time, a certain generation of women were particularly focused on body image and all of that. I'll just read this. Mealtime for mom was a bit more complicated. While she was always very fit, think aerobics step mini trampoline classes and the like, she was also almost always trying out the latest fad diet. Most memorably, I recall one trendy regimen where she ate one type of fruit and only that fruit each day for a couple of weeks. Pineapple one day only, watermelon the next, and so on. I was always a bit envious when she got to eat one of my favorite fruits for dinner and I had to have an actual balanced meal once a year. Mom went to the Golden Door, a very exclusive spa and weight management resort in Escondido, California, not far from San Diego. And then you skipping along, you say, surprisingly, the sequence of dieting and then not, or the yo yo diet, as it has come to be called, never seemed to indicate any serious body positivity issues or self consciousness on her part. Mom was a positively beautiful woman on some level, though very quietly, I believe she always knew that. So what do you how do you how do you square her relationship with her body and how it affected you and your body?

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[Stacy Waldman Bass]

So let's just get one of everything.

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[Marc Maron]

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[Stacy Waldman Bass]

Yes, Chef.

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[Marc Maron]

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Oh, tiramisu.

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[Stacy Waldman Bass]

Terms apply.

[Kim Holderness]

See capital1.com for details.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

Oh gosh. I have a very complicated relationship with my body. I I would say that there was something about being, having diets be modeled as a thing to do that probably wasn't a great, you know, data point for me to have. Early in my life I definitely succumbed to yo yo stuff as well. But I think overall the impression I always had from my mom was self love and I think that I got so much confidence infused from my parents. A friend recently read the book and said that in particular the letters from my dad in her mind explained exactly why I am who I am. And I think that, that even though I don't really include letters from my mom in the book, I feel like the messaging was very similar. So I think that is what came through. Even though she was dieting, she wasn't, she didn't do it with a fierceness that made me think that she was, you know, looking in the mirror disapprovingly at herself. Like I think that she, I think she really appreciated her gifts and just wanted to be healthy. And if it meant she could have, you know, cheesecake for dinner because she was a little bit more careful for a couple weeks, then that would be a perk. I don't think that back then, as you suggested, there was as much consciousness about wellness, obviously, than there is now. I don't really remember ever talking to my mom about what she was doing or why are you doing that? And I'm not doing that. So it was a little bit more understated. I've always thought it ironic. Like, she, as I indicated, she wasn't much of a cook, and I'm not much of a cook, but my daughter just graduated culinary school, so there's obviously some attempt to turnaround.

[Zibby Owens]

Yeah.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

Generations of not being able to do much in the kitchen. So I would say the body positivity thing is the thing that came through over the. You need to look a certain way and diet and you know, that there's a model to adhere to. I don't think that that was at all what she taught, which is something I tried also not to. Not to try to, you know, teach to my kids.

[Zibby Owens]

My mom had cottage cheese and fruit literally every day for lunch for like, 10 years. Like, I feel like the whole time that's just like, what happened. Right. Don't deviate. This is the thing.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

I may be, like, slightly embarrassed to tell you. That's what I eat for lunch pretty much every day. Okay.

[Zibby Owens]

There's nothing wrong with no judgment. No.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

It's just really good. It's really good.

[Zibby Owens]

Okay.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

Any kind of fruit is my go to thing.

[Zibby Owens]

Yeah, Well, I just meant the rigidity of, like, adhering to what was the thing to eat at the time. And, you know. Well, that's my mother's. A whole other story. I shouldn't even have brought her in. It was not meant. It was not about the meal itself. But anyway, forget it. You write in the book about one of, if not your first Thanksgiving after losing your father, when you saw Joanne Woodward and Paul Newman in a nearby restaurant, who were sort of local celebrities who came out every so often and you said you had a star shower that day. Talk about, like, that moment and all the signs really. I mean, you scatter in so many times where you feel. Well, one time where your father was. You felt literally there one time with the windsurfing, where your son saw your dad and you have just so many signs. Tell me about how you feel about signs in general. His presence, the universe, the dream.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

All of the stuff I feel 100% certain that the signs are indications that he's here and she's here. I talk to them daily from where we live. There's two swans who seem to travel together, who kind of appear by our dock sometimes and just sit there. They don't seem to be doing what the other swans are doing. Makes me curious. The example about the deer during the wedding. There were lots of things like that that I feel like I look for them, but not in a way that I am creating them, but that I'm open to receiving them as messages. And that's something, I guess, you know, is incredibly grounding and calming when you're suffering and missing someone so much that you feel like they can. They can hear you, they can see you. Maybe not literally, but in that way. We did actually go and talk to a medium several times over the. Over the course of the years. Different. Different mediums and. Or do you call them media? I don't think you do in that situation. Definitely mediums. And I don't know if you've ever had that kind of experience. It's not like, as direct as your dad is saying X, Y and Z. It's more like piecing together signs and puzzles. So I feel like it's something I look for as a way of staying connected, and I'm always grateful when there's some kind of a sign. The Paul Newman, Joanne Woodward story was especially meaningful because it was right after the accident or just a few months after, as I told. And, you know, first of all, why would you expect to see Paul Newman and Joan Woodward in a restaurant on Thanksgiving? You. You wouldn't. It was not atypical to see them in Westport out and about. They were lovely people who I interacted with a bunch of different times over the years, mostly connected to the Westport Library. But that particular day was really the last thing I expected to see. And it was sort of, as I indicated, a very unusual, I felt, message. To say it's okay, what you were. Your perfect Thanksgiving. That we had year after year after year for all of these years isn't the only way to be, you can be okay in this restaurant on Thanksgiving, even though the circumstances today are terrible. And to allow myself to open my mind up to a different path and maybe not be so connected to or expectant of what was or what's always been. And, you know, that particular day, Paul was just so gentle and so understanding. He, you know, not that they would have, but they could have easily just said, we're having dinner, or we're about to get in our car, like, please don't bother us. And they. They were. They. They must have sensed that it was important to connect. And there was something about that that just made me feel, you know, I don't know, the hug from Paul Newman on that particular day just felt it kind of elevated me from the ditch that I was in a little bit. And, you know, that was still very early. And 30 years later, I can say that, you know, grief is not over. I heard. I was listening to a pod, another podcast recently where the question was something like, you know, how was your grief? And the person answered by saying, you know, oh, it was hard. You know, it was hard for a few weeks. And the implication was, and then it was over. And I kind of thought, I think people need to be reminded that it's okay to grieve for a long time. It doesn't mean that you're not functioning. It doesn't mean that you're not living your life or appreciating the joys or seeing your being able to smile when your kids achieve something, or, you know, take a walk on the beach and enjoy the water lapping up. None of those things have to go away if you're grieving. They can exist at the same time. And I feel like that is kind of what light keeping is. In some ways, to me, it's become a healthier way, if you will, of continuing to grieve because I'm not really wanting to let go of it. I don't want to be over my parents and my cousins. I want to think of them always. I want to honor them always and remember them as much as I possibly can. So, you know, I. Is it true that I don't break down in tears as often as I used to? Absolutely, that's true. But I still feel the loss in a huge way in my body. And I think that what's been most remarkable about the book, writing the book, the process of writing the book and sort of completing it and feeling like it's out of me is that I'm holding it in my body differently, which I didn't really know could ever happen. It feels different inside my body. And that, I think, is something that if people could know was possible, it might help a lot of people who are still in a very dark place about a loss, that there's a way, you know, not. I don't want to say, get to the other side, because that implies that, you know, you want to get to the other side, but to hold it differently. In your body. And I think that that can be cathartic and super helpful too.

[Zibby Owens]

There's a grief counselor, Megan Urdan Jarvis, who I saw her talk. She. I mean, I've read her books, I published her book, whatever. But she says the act of writing, according to all the neuroscience, shows that your brain no longer feels you have to keep circling through it to remember it, that you can put the threat down and so your body is not like tensed up holding onto it anymore. So anyway, who knows?

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

That makes sense. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[Zibby Owens]

Stacy, thank you so much. Thank you for keeping keeping the light and for sharing your experience, which I'm sure will help other people. So congratulations.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

I really appreciate it. Thank you for taking the time to talk to me.

[Zibby Owens]

Okay. Hope to meet in person soon.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

Yes, definitely.

[Zibby Owens]

All right, take care. Bye bye bye. Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram, ibbeowens and Spread the Word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Stacy Waldman Bass]

Ready to order?

[Zibby Owens]

Yes.

[Capital One Saver Card Advertiser]

We're earning unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with a Capital One Saver card.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

So let's just get one of everything.

[Capital One Saver Card Advertiser]

Everything.

[Marc Maron]

Fire everything. The Capital One Saver card is at table 27, and they're earning unlimited 3% cash back.

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

Yes, Chef.

[Capital One Saver Card Advertiser]

This is so nice.

[Marc Maron]

Had a feeling you'd want 3% cash back on dessert.

[Capital One Saver Card Advertiser]

Ooh, tiramisu.

[Marc Maron]

Earn unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with the Capital One Saver card. Capital One what's in your wallet?

[Stacy Waldman Bass]

Terms apply.

[Kim Holderness]

See capitalone.com for details.