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Totally Booked with Zibby
Suzy Welch, BECOMING YOU: The Proven Method for Crafting Your Authentic Life and Career
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- [00:01]
Zibby Owens
Hi listeners of Totally Booked with Zibby. This June we have one episode coming out every single day. And to celebrate that, I've started the June Listening Club. You can sign up on zibbedia.com or you can just keep listening and every day there'll be a little quiz on Instagram. We're giving prizes away every single day this month you're gonna get amazing stuff. You would all be invited to a party and a zoom at the end of the month to celebrate with a special certificate. So sign up on Zibbe Media today. Make sure following Totally Booked with Zibby on Instagram and get ready to listen. Make it a challenge. June is crazy. Find some airtime for yourself. Put it on in the background. Get ready to listen, learn, laugh and enjoy life.
- [00:50]
Susie Welch
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- [01:20]
Zibby Owens
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- [02:03]
Michelle Norris
Hey everyone, I'm Michelle Norris, here to welcome you to your mama's kitchen. Every Tuesday, we bring you new stories from the childhood kitchens of fun. Guests like Stephen Colbert, John Legend, Ina Garten, Big Frida, Roy Wood. So many more people. I'll talk to guests who are artists, actors, chefs, musicians, and more about how the food and the culinary traditions of their youth shaped their lives in interesting and sometimes surprising ways. It's delicious. Make sure to listen wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:39]
Zibby Owens
Hi, this is Zibby Owens and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have Time to Read Books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest or underrated authors and story creators whose I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author, and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to stay in the know, get insider insights and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbymedia.com and follow me on Instagram ibyowens. Welcome back to Totally Booked. So pleased to be here with Susie Welch, Becoming youg the proven method for crafting your authentic life and career. Congratulations.
- [03:32]
Susie Welch
Thank you very much.
- [03:33]
Zibby Owens
So happy to have you here. I'm going to read Susie's quick bio for you. Okay. Susie Welch is a professor of management practice at NYU Stern School of Business and an expert on personal values and their role in forging meaningful careers. She invented the three scientifically validated digital tools used in the becoming you method, the values bridge PI 360 and the career traits Compass, and is the creator of the Welch Bristol Values Inventory. Congratulations.
- [04:02]
Susie Welch
Thank you. Hi, everybody.
- [04:07]
Zibby Owens
Suzy, this book is so great because first of all, your voice comes through on every page. I haven't met you until today. I felt like I completely got to know you through the book. You share the joys and sorrows, your most intimate moments of loss and resilience and motherhood and career and everything. And I feel like not only at the end have I read a great memoir, but then you give all these tools for me to have a better life myself. So thank you.
- [04:34]
Susie Welch
Thank you for saying that. Thank you. I just let it all. I let it rip. I thought, why hold back? I don't wanna write a boring how to book. I wanna tell the true story of how I came to these ideas. There's nothing simple or hack like about them, and there's nothing simple or hack life about life. And so I just poured it out.
- [04:54]
Zibby Owens
That's amazing.
- [04:54]
Susie Welch
Thank you.
- [04:55]
Zibby Owens
Can you tell everybody a little bit of the backstory, how you decided to teach a class, how you came up with this method, how just all of it came together?
- [05:02]
Susie Welch
Yes. Do you have 17 hours? Yes. I'll do the. I will do the very. I'll do the Cliff Notes of it. I had had a long and happy career in broadcast journalism. Basically. I worked on NBC and cnbc and I wrote for O, the Oprah Magazine. And pretty happy doing that as I was raising my four children and having a very busy life with my late husband. And we wrote books together about business and management. And that was going along pretty very happily for. I mean, I have four kids, so I don't want to say very happily because kids are kids and they go off the rails when you're not Looking. And even when you are looking. Right. And so that was all going along for 15 or something, 20 years. And then my husband got very sick, and everything had to change. At first, we thought we could beat it, and so we did that fight. And then. And we couldn't beat it, so we did a totally different fight, which is not a fight, but it's a journey. And in that period, I brought my work down first. I cut my work in half. I let go of one of my shows on cnbc, and then I brought my life down to an even lower boil. I ended up being on some boards and doing some stuff like that. But then in 2020, my husband passed away, and it was. I was prepared. But nothing prepares you. That's the thing. I mean, he wanted me to be prepared. We talked about me being prepared, and it happened on March 1, and then Covid hit March 16, and yes. And, you know, it was terrible for all of us. And so I don't want to say it was worse for me or it wasn't. It was just terrible. And it was terrible with many, many layers. And we went up to the woods of upstate New York. I have, as I said, four children and their spouses, and we all went up to the upstate of New York with all of our dogs. It was Dogapalooza. There were seven dogs in all of us. And. And then. And I was sad, and they were wonderful, and we grieved together. And then they are young and they started to put their lives back together again, but I did not. And I was wandering around in the woods of upstate New York with all my children gone and my dogs to the point where, like, the dogs were like, enough is enough. I mean, and I was still walking, and then very far. And I kept on saying, no, let's keep walking. And then, very fortunately, the great Hoda Kotbi called me up and said, I think it's time for you to come back on tv. And I said, okay, okay. And I didn't, like, I didn't know how I felt about going back into the world. But as I got closer and closer to the studio, I felt more and more excitement. I felt like, oh, oh, oh. And I remember, like, seeing New York again for the first time and feeling like, oh, I do belong back here. And I was. I went back on the show. And that day I did a segment, and Hoda, I said, after the segment was over, Susie Welch, will you come back to the Today show? And I went, yes, but I already knew no, because I, you know, I mean, like, we have a photograph of my face sort of going as I said it, but it was like being asked to be married on the Jumbotron, you know? And I loved the show, but something in me had really changed. And I was. Something in me had really profoundly changed. But I didn't know what I should do with my life, only that I wanted to do something with my life. And for years, I had been formulating a methodology and I'd been formulating it. I had a show called Suzy Welch Fix my. And I was writing a careers column for Oprah and then for Business Week, and I had this methodology that was bubbling up. And right around then, a friend mentioned to me that he was teaching at nyu. And I thought, well, maybe I could take this methodology and teach it at the business school. I wish I'd had this methodology when I was in business school. So what came over me? I knew the dean from my previous life and I went to go see him and I said, I have this idea for methodology. And he said, well, you can try it as an experiment. We always were very experimental at nyu. We're very entrepreneurial. Come and try it. And I said, okay, great. But if you create a class called Becoming Crafting the authentic life you want and need, and you offer it to 20 and 30 somethings, it's not an experiment for very long. And they were going to do a 20 person experiment the first semester. And then they called me and say, how'd you like 40 students? How'd you like 80 students? And the rest is history. So the course was needed and it became very well received. And I love those students in the first semester so much because after every class I had required homework where they had to tell me how I was doing. And they were wonderful and kind and encouraging. They had a heart for me, I had a heart for them. We were all going through it together because I was the first beta tester of this methodology. And then the course took off. I was asked to join the faculty full time as a full professor. I did and took on another class called Management with Purpose. And I teach that. And then I thought one day I was teaching and I thought to myself, I'm extraordinarily happy, first time in a really long time. And I thought, oh, I found my purpose and the method helped me get there. And right around the time my old publisher was coming around and saying, would you like to write a book on this? Would you like to write a book on this? And I was like, no, no, no, no. A thousand times no, no, no. Then around Christmas, she took me out for lunch. I believe a bottle of wine was involved. And next thing you know, there was a book. But I was urged by my children to write the. And so here it is.
- [10:16]
Zibby Owens
It's amazing.
- [10:17]
Susie Welch
Thank you. Thanks.
- [10:21]
Zibby Owens
Well, you outline the methodology in the book, and you gave us quizzes that we can all take for free on your website. And all of that, which I, of course, had to take.
- [10:31]
Susie Welch
Good. I'm glad.
- [10:32]
Zibby Owens
So thank you for that. Okay. Your general premise is the differential between what you want out of life and what you have in your life and how you can sort of make that difference up and what you can do to change it.
- [10:44]
Susie Welch
Yes.
- [10:45]
Zibby Owens
Oversimplification.
- [10:46]
Susie Welch
Okay.
- [10:46]
Zibby Owens
Why don't you do it better?
- [10:47]
Susie Welch
Okay. All right. Well, the premise of the methodology is one thing, and then the values bridge is another. Let me just quickly go through them. So, the methodology says that your purpose lies at the intersection of your values, your deeply held beliefs and desires. Your aptitude, which is what you're uniquely good at, and your economically viable interests. Well, we can test for aptitudes. Okay, your aptitudes. You have eight cognitive aptitudes that tend to matter at work. None of us ever get tested, but we should. And the book has tests for it. And our personality is also an aptitude. You know as well as I do that some people are very good at their jobs because of their personalities, and sometimes not. And your interests? Most people know their interests, but if you don't, there's ways to find that out. The complicated and very hard part is knowing your values. So one of the first things I did when I landed on the faculty was research, because my suspicion was that most people didn't know what values were or what theirs were. This is really hard stuff to know because society is screaming and your parents are screaming in your ear what your values should be. And so most people have their values galloped away with by a partner, a parent, life, children. And so I started to try to develop exercises to help people excavate their values. And I developed seven exercises that I use. They're in the book, and I use them in class. But I was frustrated that there was no exercise that captured accurately. There's 15 core values that I work with. They're part of this inventory that I invented, the Welch Bristol Values Inventory, which builds on the shoulders of other great inventories. But I like mine better. But whatever. There's other values, inventories. And no tool really captures not just what your values are, but how much you're living them. So say you have a value of scope. Scope is the value that measures how big and exciting a life you want. And some people want to be like Bianca Jagger riding in on a white horse into Studio 54 with tons of excitement, stimulation, new learning, new experiences. You know, my husband was off the charts on scope. And how do you know? We were lying in bed at 11 o' clock at night and he would say, let's go do a pub crawl. I mean, he could. He was a junkie for excitement. Right. And so would you do it? I did it. I loved him. Did I want to do it? I mean, I. Once we got going, I'd had fun, but usually I'd be like, lights out at 9 o' clock for me. Okay. I mean, like, me and the dogs were asleep at 9, typically. But I loved him and I would go and it would always be fun. It was fun. It was fun when we did it. But some people don't want scope in their life at all. I mean, they want to know, they want a lot of predictability and they want control. There's no right or wrong. It's a continuum. Right now, what I wanted was for my students a, to know how much of each value they had. Scope, affluence, luminance, family, centrism, work, centrism. There's 15 of these values how much they had, but how much they were actually exceeding. Expressing, like you can really have a value of scope but have a very boring life. And you could feel like you're in a suit that doesn't fit you. That's the variance that you got measured. So the test that I have, this values bridge, which you can take, it's on my website, tells you what your values are, ranked 1 to 15, and it tells you the variance on every single one of them. And then it tells you your overall variance. And so I developed this because I was frustrated that my students, the exercises weren't getting us close enough. But now on my bingo card, developing digital tools starting at age 60, not there, but you just, you know, a necessity is the mother of invention.
- [14:08]
Zibby Owens
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- [19:33]
Susie Welch
That's correct. His parents still looking for me. His parents gonna hunt me down. But yes, no, I mean, they came to peace with it.
- [19:42]
Zibby Owens
So what if you, what if you take these quizzes and you're like, okay, my life is totally out of alignment in this way. Or I didn't realize I prioritized this, that or the other thing as much. Or I was embarrassed to admit that this was important to me. Now what do I do?
- [19:56]
Susie Welch
Yes. All right. So I have taught this not just to MBAs, but I've now done a lot of workshops. I do these three day workshops and I've talked to people from age 18 to 78. So it's not just MBAs who are in this place where they're wondering, do I? What do I do now? So I've seen it tweak people's lives where they go through it, and they have, oh, okay, this is what the problem was. This value gap needs to close. Or I am a generalist and I should be in a specialist job, or I want to take this whole package and move it over to this industry. But some people really do end up blowing up their lives. And then the question becomes, well, can you, you know, do you have the courage? Is this the moment? And so I've seen every different outcome. I've seen people. Last night I was at a book event and I was signing books, and. And somebody came up and he said, you totally changed my life. I was going to go into. This was an MBA student. I was going to go into X industry doing something, and now I'm chief of staff at a tech company. And once I got over the shock of it and wrap my head around it, I was scared when I realized what my true purpose was. I have to say, now that I've done it probably with people or heard about people doing it almost 5,000 times now, I would say the reaction is everything from exhilaration to fear to wanting to postpone it for a while. But I've never had anybody go through it and say the process did not get me to something. As soon as I heard it, I knew it was the thing. People see it and they're like, yep, that's it. And then it's up to you how much you want to execute. I mean, sometimes students say to me, okay, I got it. I know what my purpose is. What's the first step? And I say, that's what the career office is for. You know, I send them on their way. I mean, there's a skill to.
- [21:39]
Zibby Owens
You also show us how people might not be made to be managers. Like, there's a temperament, and sometimes being around lots of people is not in your skill set. I mean, we all know these things. But having a way to say, oh, maybe this job is not for me, and you're helping someone turn it down. Because if you love to be alone in a room, maybe you don't want to take the promotion where you have a whole team.
- [22:01]
Susie Welch
Yeah, this is a little bit about aptitudes. I mean, so one thing that happens when you're young, in your 20s and things, 30s and 40s, generally, people tell you you should be a leader. There's like a halo over the word leader. I mean, I remember when my son was applying to like middle school. And I remember them asking me in the interview process is he a leader? And it's like he's 11 years old. You know, it's like how do we know? And so there's this halo around leaders. And so what I do is I end up getting a lot of people who come into becoming you who don't know what's exactly going on, but they feel like something is wrong. And I pretty early on diagnosed this as people who were probably not meant to be natural, who were not, didn't want to be and really weren't meant to be aptitude wise leaders. They should be individual contributors or you know, there's a lot of different things you can be that is not a leader. You can be a great team member, you can be a great follower, frankly. But the society and culture and organizations tend to put us on a conveyor belt towards this thing, leadership. And it's not for everybody. And so I developed a tool, this is Career Traits Compass, it's on my website, it is for free. Which assess you on four bundles of personality traits that will and it's look, no judgment but it will say to you, okay, here's what the data is showing us on these traits which I think are the ones that would be most aligned with environments that are high in ambiguity, high in acceleration of everything, low on boundaries, leadership type situations, whether that's your place or not. It's not for everybody leadership. And so I think that it's one of the contributions of the book is to say you got to know this about yourself and there's no good or bad about it, there's just you and you are you. And you got to find the kind of environment and work that fits you.
- [23:46]
Zibby Owens
And some of them you don't even need the entire quiz. Like I know that spatial relations is never going to be a skill of mine.
- [23:52]
Susie Welch
That's right.
- [23:53]
Zibby Owens
Whereas ideas can be easier. We all need to, to take stock. And I think that it's something people don't prioritize in day to day life. Like let's just take stock of the things that come easily or come naturally.
- [24:03]
Susie Welch
You know, shouldn't we have this data about ourselves? Shouldn't we know who we are standing still? But we don't, right? Shouldn't we know what our values are? The other day I was running out of the room and somebody sort of said to me, hey, what's the name of your test again? To find out my values. And I told him how he could find it and then I Said to him, by the way, what do you think your values are now? And he kind of laughed sheepishly. And he said, well, family, of course, and friends for sure, and love. And like, this was a grown man, right? And I thought, like, oh, this is very familiar to me. Who among us, if I asked you to write down your values, could, like, with great Clarity, rank from 1 to 15 what your value? And yet, don't you think this is data we should have and we don't? Aptitudes is right behind because our brains are wired away. We figure it out eventually. If you're self aware and you've been watching yourself, you kind of figure it out, but you don't really take stock of it. But this is very good information to have. Sometimes we do it more for our children than we do it for ourselves.
- [25:07]
Zibby Owens
A good team exercise, too.
- [25:09]
Susie Welch
Yeah.
- [25:09]
Zibby Owens
Team members see some knots. In the book, you talk about a more public moment of your career where you lost your job based on falling in love with somebody who was separated but not divorced. But people didn't know Jack Welch, who. Many in the room may know who he was, but as you put in the book, people don't even know who he is anymore. I'm like, really?
- [25:30]
Susie Welch
No. I have students who say, how'd you meet Mr. Welch? And I'm like, oh, my God, how young are you? They're very young. I mean, but it was 26 years ago, so.
- [25:38]
Zibby Owens
So how did you, A, sort of follow your heart and go for it and take the risk and B, rebound from the backlash?
- [25:47]
Susie Welch
Well, there was no social media then. Okay? So that was a big, big. I mean, I don't know what would have happened to us had there been Twitter or anything in those days. It was. It was pre social media. So we fell in love. We met, we fell in love. He was separated. His wife was living in Italy with the. Her. With the gentleman she's still with. And I was divorced, but it was not in the media that he was separated. And so for us, it was a surreal thing. I mean, there was quite a bit of shock about it, but. And I got fired. It would never happen today, and it would never happen today, but it did. And as a very good girl who had always gotten A's and always gotten done everything that she was supposed to do and graduated top of her class, this was like my first failure. And it was very, very public. And I remember Jack saying to me, like, get over yourself. He had been CEO for 25 years, and he said, you know, you go prince to pig, Prince To Pig Prince. You get built up, and then you come down. This is going to be fine. And I said to him, I'll never work again. No one will ever hire me again. I was crying and crying, and he. I remember, like, it felt very cruel. He, like, laughed in my face. He said, you know, Susie, get over it. And I was like, no. And then, like, two days later, Gayle King from Oprah's. She was editor of Oprah Magazine at that time, called me and said, why don't you come in and talk to us about working for us? And he just slapped his thigh and thought it was hysterical because, like, I had been saying I'd never. And life did go on. But it was a terrible injury. I don't want to minimize it. I was devastated. But, you know, we pretty quickly afterwards got married, and then we became quite boring. We were like a. You know, like, people would see us out with the kids getting ice cream, and we just. We didn't feed the fire. We ended up writing books together and having a wonderful life together until it got very imminent. Even when he got sick was still a wonderful life is just different. But it was terrible while it was going on, and I can only imagine what it would have been like if it happened today. It gives me a heart for anybody going through it, that's for sure. I remember, like, while it was going on, there was some scandal going on with some rap star. And one of my kids said, can you believe such and such did such and such? And I said, I don't believe anything they say in the papers. I mean, I was really.
- [28:02]
Zibby Owens
Oh, my gosh. So what did you learn about yourself through then? And also, it sounds like you had this really idyllic marriage. The way you talk about your husband, it's so amazing. And the way you write about him in the book and everything, how can you share that? How can everybody find that type of joy? Is it something that can be taught or is it just chemistry?
- [28:21]
Susie Welch
I have what might be good or bad news for on this one. Okay, so what I'm about to say is, like, you may love it and you may hate it. Jack and I had the exact same values. If we had taken the values bridge test, R1 through 15 would have been extremely high overlap. Okay. I mean, kind of we tweaked. There would be a little tweak here and a little tweak there. And so I'd say that we got along and it used to frighten the children. Like, they'd come to us, and we were such a United force. And we. We sort of felt the same way about everything. And it made for a very happy marriage, to tell you the truth. So, you know, sometimes you'll say, well, opposites attract. And I'm like, I don't know. I had one of those marriages before which I met Jack, and that did not work out. And he's a good friend of mine now, but it didn't work out. So I would say we found that joy. We did not particularly chase joy. We just loved each other and respected each other. And I think it just worked because we respected, you know, we just. So. I don't know. Like, I watched my kids get married, and actually my daughter just. Youngest daughter just met this. I think they're gonna get married. They are gonna get married. She just doesn't wanna have the wedding part. I'm like, give me the wedding. But I don't care as long as they get married. But I think that my other children make fun of the fact or lovingly mock that. They talk alike. They kind of look alike. They have all the same interests. And I'm like, yes, I understand. I like a big diversity of friends. If you looked at all of my girlfriends, and I'm so blessed to have so many girlfriends, there's a lot of difference among us. And my best friend, we argue all the time because we have a lot of difference in political opinions, all sorts of stuff. But I think for life partner, for us, what worked was this very strong overlap in values. Take it or leave it.
- [30:09]
Zibby Owens
So where are you today on the alignment yourself with your values and the life you're living?
- [30:15]
Susie Welch
You know, I'd have to say I'm pretty aligned. Like every other person. Like every other person. There are things that I need to tweak. But I know my values really well. How could I not? I talk about this stuff day and night, and every once in a while, I'll catch myself making a decision out of expedience or out of expectations or because events are pushing me a certain way. And I will say, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. I know my values, and I'm gonna walk the talk. And I mean, I just did it recently. I mean, I made a different decision. I said, no, I'm not doing that because my values are. And I'm going to go do something else. So I'd say my variance is pretty, pretty low.
- [30:51]
Zibby Owens
Amazing.
- [30:52]
Susie Welch
Yeah.
- [30:52]
Zibby Owens
Susie, thank you so much.
- [30:53]
Susie Welch
My pleasure. Thank you very much.
- [30:56]
Zibby Owens
Thank you. Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly Moms don't have time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram, Ibby Owens and Spread the Word. Thanks so much. Oh and buy the books. This is Paige desorbo from Giggly Squad. Boost Mobile is no longer that prepaid wireless company you remember. They've invested billions into building their own 5G towers across America. With Boost Mobile's networks, customers enjoy the speed and service they'd expect from the Big three, plus groundbreaking benefits you'd only get from a true challenger of the industry. Boost Mobile will let you try the network risk free for 30 days, so visit your nearest Boost Mobile store or find us online@boostmobile.com today Acast powers the world's Best Podcasts Here's a show that we recommend.
- [31:59]
Michelle Norris
The new year is as great a time as any to get a handle on our money. And if what you want is honest, real and relevant advice from someone you can trust, someone who's not trying to to sell you the latest crypto or steer you towards an MLM you want to subscribe to Sew Money hosted by me, Farnoosh Tarabi. I've been a financial journalist for over 20 years and I'm a best selling author and this is my 9th year hosting Sew Money. Whether you're looking to save more, invest or negotiate a better salary, I've got you covered with fresh episodes three times per week. And something else cool I'm giving away a free money call to one lucky listener every week all year. A chance for you and I to talk one on one and get you a personal plan for for 2024. Just listen and subscribe to Sew Money wherever you get your podcasts.
- [32:48]
Zibby Owens
Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.