Totally Booked with Zibby

Guest: Rabbi Wendy I. Zierler – "Going Out with Knots: My Two Kaddish Years with Hebrew Poetry"

Release Date: October 6, 2025
Host: Zibby Owens

Episode Overview

In this episode, Zibby Owens interviews Wendy I. Zierler, professor, ordained Orthodox rabbi, and author of "Going Out with Knots: My Two Kaddish Years with Hebrew Poetry." The conversation explores themes of grief, Jewish mourning traditions, gender in religious practice, poetry as spiritual sustenance, and personal resilience through loss and the COVID pandemic. Zierler discusses her experiences of mourning both parents within a year, how she integrated poetry into her Kaddish practice, her career path, and the creation of her memoir as a source of solace and transformation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introducing Wendy I. Zierler and Her Book

• Zibby introduces Wendy Zierler as an accomplished academic and newly ordained Orthodox rabbi.
• Zierler’s book is described as a grief memoir, documenting her process of mourning her parents and finding her place in male-centered religious rituals.
• Quote [03:24]:

  "In writing this book, I too was praying. I too was giving vent to my hopes and yearnings and seeking meaning in the aftermath of unremitting personal loss."
  – Zierler, read by Zibby

The Dual Loss and the Genesis of Her Project

• Zierler recounts the consecutive losses of her father (sudden accident) and mother (chronic illness and eventual chosen end-of-treatment), both within 11 months.
• The COVID-19 pandemic began just after these events, further complicating her mourning process and community participation.
• Quote [04:32]:

  "From the very beginning, I knew I was going to be a kind of reluctant or antsy Kaddish reciter...I knew as a feminist, I knew as a literary type that that sort of repetition within that context, I was going to need something."
  – Wendy I. Zierler

Poetry as a Coping Practice

• To make the daily repetition of Kaddish meaningful, Zierler began selecting and teaching a new modern Hebrew poem each week, connecting literary exploration with spiritual practice.
• The project ("Shir Hadash shel Yom") turned into weekly essays and teachings, which have continued beyond her formal mourning period.
• Quote [04:32]:

  "I started writing these weekly essays, which... has continued to this day. So I have like 300 plus teachings like this."
  – Zierler

Selection of Poems and Feminist Intent

• Zierler initially gravitated toward poems by women, seeking to insert female voices into Jewish liturgy, where traditionally none exist.

• She moved through various poets as each spoke to stages of her process, eventually including male poets whose work tackled doubt, denial, and theological frustration—experiences often unaddressed in official liturgy.

• Quote [09:32]:

  "No woman's voice is represented in the traditional prayer book. And so this would be a way, in a sense, of compiling an alternative siddur, a prayer book."
  – Wendy I. Zierler

• Examples discussed:

  • Leah Goldberg for initial poems
  • Avram Khalifi’s "Heretic's Prayer"
  • Yehuda Amichai, known for innovative metaphors for God and spirituality

Expanding the Notion of Holy Texts

• Zierler emphasizes the spiritual and literary value of contemporary poetry, advocating for an expanded Jewish literary “canon”:

  "Modern literature also can be a source of spiritual strength, that it can be holy in this unconventional sense."
  – Zierler [12:49]

Personal and Professional Background

• Zierler recounts her upbringing in Ontario, her family’s deep Jewish commitments, and the risks her father took for religious observance.
• Literary aspirations led her to a PhD and an MFA in creative writing, striving to bridge Jewish tradition with secular literary analysis.
• Opportunity for Orthodox rabbinic ordination came later in life with the founding of the first seminary to ordain women; her ordination was a landmark event.
• Quote [18:22]:

  "I grew up wanting to be first and foremost a writer...My idea was to try and figure out a way to bring together my worlds, the world of secular literature and Jewishness."

Integrating Pop Culture and Religious Study

• Zierler describes co-creating a course on theology and movies, leading to her book "Movies in Midrash," which will have a sequel focused on television.
• Personal anecdote: Returning to New York just before 9/11, being downtown that day, and how these experiences wove into her teaching and writing.
• Quote [21:29]:

  "We innovated this class that uses film and television as a springboard for religious conversation...for 15 years we taught together."

Community, Empathy, and Contemporary Challenges

• Zierler discusses her community’s struggle with ongoing concerns about Israel, empathy for the stranger, and the dangers of hardening in times of prolonged crisis.
• She connects her personal journey with these broader communal issues:

  "Our core mission has to do with an empathetic orientation...Part of the challenge of my book was figuring out a way to stay connected, tradition to condition, even when things great or...death...makes you feel detached from the regular run of things."
  – Zierler [25:50]

The Meaning of "Going Out with Knots"

• The title refers to a ritual and a Talmudic passage that, taken literally, overlooked daughters’ grief for their fathers.

• Zierler shares a pivotal moment: donning her father’s tallit and reading commentary stating “daughters never miss their fathers”—directly countering her lived experience.

• Quote [30:03]:

  "I was so close with my dad, I was wearing his ritual knots and someone was telling me that I didn’t miss him... So this whole book became a metaphorical effort to go out with knots with my dad, with my mom, with my belongingness to the Jewish community, with my belongingness to traditional practice."

• She expands on using language and poetry to remain connected—knotted—to tradition, community, and memory, rather than defined by severance or loss.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [03:24] Zibby (reading Zierler):
  "In writing this book, I too was praying. I too was giving vent to my hopes and yearnings and seeking meaning in the aftermath of unremitting personal loss."

• [09:32] Zierler:
  "No woman's voice is represented in the traditional prayer book. And so this would be a way... of compiling an alternative siddur, a prayer book."

• [25:50] Zierler:
  "Our core mission has to do with an empathetic orientation... even when things [like] death... make you feel detached from the regular run of things."

• [30:03] Zierler, on "knots":
  "I was so close with my dad, I was wearing his ritual knots and someone was telling me that I didn’t miss him... this whole book became a metaphorical effort to go out with knots..."

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:21] – Zibby welcomes Wendy Zierler and frames the interview.
• [04:32] – Zierler describes the loss of her parents, becoming a mourner, and developing her weekly poetry practice.
• [09:32] – Discussing the process of selecting poems, focus on women’s voices, and the creation of an alternative tradition.
• [18:22] – Zierler details her background: family, literary aspirations, and unexpected path to the rabbinate.
• [21:29] – Origin story of her book "Movies in Midrash" and how film inspires religious exploration.
• [24:13] – Zibby and Wendy discuss current challenges facing Jewish communities, especially related to Israel and empathy.
• [25:50] – Deep dive into the book's title and its profound personal and spiritual resonance.
• [31:45] – Zibby thanks Zierler; episode wraps up.

Conclusion

This episode offers an intimate, intellectually rich exploration of grief, tradition, feminist spirituality, and the enduring power of literature and ritual. Wendy Zierler’s experience provides a roadmap for transforming personal and communal loss into resilient creativity, forging new knots of connection to self, tradition, and each other.

Recommended for:
Those interested in Jewish thought, feminism and religion, poetry, grief memoirs, or anyone seeking inspiration from lives fully lived and traditions reimagined for the present.

For more insights and readings, find Wendy I. Zierler’s "Going Out with Knots" wherever books are sold.