Zibby’s Book Club Pick Allegra Goodman’s This is Not About Us

Summary

Totally Booked with Zibby

Episode: Zibby’s Book Club Pick: Allegra Goodman’s This is Not About Us
Date: March 30, 2026
Host: Zibby Owens (introduction, overview)
Guest Interviewer: Nikki Ehrlich (author of The Measure)
Guest Author: Allegra Goodman (author of This is Not About Us)

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Episode Overview

In this special episode of Totally Booked with Zibby, Zibby Owens presents a conversation between acclaimed authors Allegra Goodman and Nikki Ehrlich, hosted live at Zibby’s Bookshop. While Allegra Goodman was unable to join Zibby for a direct interview, this engaging dialogue—focusing on Goodman’s new book club pick, This is Not About Us—delves into the novel’s structure, inspirations, its exploration of complicated family dynamics, and the writing life. Nikki Ehrlich asks insightful questions, paralleling the themes of Goodman’s novel with the author’s own experiences.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Introduction to This is Not About Us

[04:58] Allegra Goodman:

• The novel explores three generations of a Jewish American family (the Rubensteins) on the East Coast, from the perspective of various members (grandparents, adult children, and grandchildren).
• Goodman likens the book’s narrative to a gemstone: “When I was writing the book, I always thought of it as like having a gem and just turning it to the light to look at the different facets.”
• The family’s surname, Rubenstein, was inspired by the pianist Arthur Rubenstein, a favorite of Goodman’s mother.

The Role of Music

[07:26] Allegra Goodman:

• Music is woven through the novel, symbolizing character differences and family dynamics.
• The Boston Symphony and musical preferences are touchpoints for illustrating relationships—such as the sisters’ rift and shared history.

Structure and Writing Process

[08:23] Allegra Goodman:

• The book is described as a “story cycle” or “serial novel,” not a collection of unrelated short stories:
  • “It's not really a collection of, like, disparate stories. They have a narrative arc. And so people read it like a novel.”
• Many stories were published in magazines, notably The New Yorker, incorporating reader feedback as the narrative developed.
• Written over 12–14 years, primarily on Sunday mornings during her daughter’s rowing classes:
  • “Ninety percent of this book, I only wrote on Sunday mornings.” [10:48]

Revisiting the Family Saga Genre

[12:03] Allegra Goodman:

• Goodman drew inspiration from her previous work (The Family Markowitz) and her expanded perspective as a grandmother:
  • “When I wrote The Family Markowitz, I was the age of the youngest generation... Now I am in my 50s, I'm a grandmother. I have four grown and three little grandchildren. So it was really interesting to revisit that form...”

Character Creation and Perspectives

[17:08] Allegra Goodman:

• Goodman enjoys shifting perspectives, allowing readers more insight than the characters have themselves:
  • “The reader understands things from the outside just a lot better than the family members understand from inside. I like giving the reader that access and I like playing with it.”
• The novel contains no clear villains or heroes, reflecting real-life complexity:
  • “They're human... They have their mishegos... but they're good people.”
• Even the family dog gets a narrative moment.
  [17:42] Nikki Ehrlich: "And we're even in the perspective of a dog at one point."
  Allegra Goodman: "Yes, there are some dogs in the book." [17:44]

Structure and Chronology

[18:49] Allegra Goodman:

• The order of the stories in the final book was shaped after most were written, giving her a chance to ensure continuity and develop character arcs more fully.
• The book’s release was delayed in favor of Goodman’s other novel Isola, which ultimately benefited this project.

Writing Practice

[19:50] Allegra Goodman:

• Outlines play a role in her process, but she allows for surprises and changes:
  • “The goal post kind of shifts...the material also pushes back a little bit...”

Endings and Letting Go

[20:58] Allegra Goodman:

• The book concludes with a birth and a gathering, signaling closure.
• Characters feel real to Goodman, and even readers sometimes strongly identify:
  • “I even got a message recently from a woman who read...and her piece was about Helen...and this woman just started her message, ‘I am Helen. My children don't listen to me.’” [21:23]

Parallel Projects and Refreshing Contrasts

[22:14] Allegra Goodman:

• Alternating between Isola (a historical novel) and This is Not About Us was refreshing due to the vastly different subjects and tones.

Themes: Togetherness and Loneliness

[22:56] Nikki Ehrlich & Allegra Goodman:

• Contrasts between physical isolation in Isola and the family togetherness (but emotional distance) in This is Not About Us:
  • “[In] this book, no one is ever alone because there's always all these family members always gathering. But that doesn't mean they're not alone.”
• Themes of companionship, solitude, and family politics thread through all Goodman’s work.

Literary Influences

[24:14] Allegra Goodman:

• Influences include Eudora Welty, Catherine Ann Porter, and 19th-century novelists like Dickens, George Eliot, and Tolstoy.

Research and Realism

[25:36] Allegra Goodman:

• This is Not About Us required little research compared to the immersive historical research for Isola.

Book Cover and Title

[26:18] Nikki Ehrlich & Allegra Goodman:

• The cover features a bundt cake, created by an artist known for food paintings. Goodman found it appropriately nostalgic and in line with the novel’s mood.
• The title, suggested by Goodman’s sister, is lifted from one of the stories; it also nods playfully to the question of whether the stories are autobiographical.
  • “[My daughter] said, ‘I think it's really cute how you labeled the document ‘This is Not About Us’ to reassure the family.’ And I was like, no, that's not to reassure the family. That is actually the title of the book.”

Recipe Wars

[28:47] Nikki Ehrlich & Allegra Goodman:

• The book’s story of a family feud over an apple cake recipe echoes Goodman’s own mother’s protective attitude toward her recipes:
  • “She didn't give people recipes, or she would say, like, this is a really good recipe, but it's not for you.” [28:58]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Family as a Gem: “When I was writing the book, I always thought of it as like having a gem and just turning it to the light to look at the different facets.” – Allegra Goodman [04:58]
• On Reader Perspective: “The reader understands things from the outside just a lot better than the family members understand from inside. I like giving the reader that access and I like playing with it.” – Allegra Goodman [17:08]
• On Not Judging Characters: “They judge each other, but I don't judge them.” – Allegra Goodman [18:37]
• On Autobiography: “I think it's really cute how you labeled the document ‘This is Not About Us’ to reassure the family. And I was like, no, that's not to reassure the family. That is actually the title of the book.” – Allegra Goodman [28:12]
• On Recipes and Rivalries: “She didn't give people recipes, or she would say, like, this is a really good recipe, but it's not for you.” – Allegra Goodman [28:58]

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Important Timestamps

• [04:58] — Allegra Goodman introduces the Rubenstein family and structure of the book.
• [07:26] — Exploring the role of music in the novel and Goodman's life.
• [08:23 – 11:55] — Writing process, serialization, origins of the story, Sunday morning ritual.
• [12:03] — Feedback from readers, generational perspective, and writing the modern family saga.
• [14:01] — Discussion on the construction and use of the family tree.
• [17:08] — Importance of multiple perspectives and character insight.
• [19:41] — Discussion of story order, structure, and publication timeline.
• [20:58] — How the book ends and letting go of characters.
• [22:14 – 23:53] — Contrast between Isola and the new book; family togetherness and isolation.
• [24:14] — Literary influences and reading habits.
• [26:18] — The book cover’s origin and meaning.
• [27:25] — The title’s origin and family reactions.
• [28:47] — Real-life family recipes and inspiration for the apple cake feud.

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Tone & Atmosphere

The conversation is warm, flexible, often humorous, and intimate, with both authors drawing on personal experience and literary history. Goodman’s humility and insight shine, particularly as she navigates questions about family, creativity, and craft.

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For New Listeners and Readers

This episode is a must-listen for fans of contemporary literary fiction, readers interested in family sagas and Jewish American life, or writers curious about the creative process across genres. Goodman’s thoughtful, witty explanations and Ehrlich’s probing, enthusiastic questions create an engaging literary exploration that stands alone even if you haven’t read the book.

Transcript

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[Nikki Ehrlich]

Perhaps not everyone has had a chance to read it yet, so if you would like to kind of give an introduction to this book for everybody here.

[Allegra Goodman]

Sure, sure. So it came out on last Tuesday, so it's been out a week. And this book is a book about a family about three generations of a Jewish American family living on the East Coast. There are the grandparents who are in their 80s, the early 80s and late 70s, and then their children who are grown and in their 50s, and then the grandchildren generation like, you know, Nikki's age and younger. And it is a portrait of his family, sort of from all sides, from different facets. And their name is the Rubenstein family. And Rubenstein means ruby stone. And when I was writing the book, I always thought of it as like having a gem and just turning it to the light to look at the different facets of the gem. Because the way the book is structured, you can see the family from all sides. You can see the grandmother's point of view, you can see her frustrated daughter's point of view. You can see the point of view of the children and their parents who think the children aren't listening to them. You know, and it's got the grandparents, the cousins, the siblings. All different kinds of relationships are explored in this book. So that's just, you know, a brief description.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

Did you choose the last name because of that or did you discover that meaning after you had the last name?

[Allegra Goodman]

I actually discovered the meaning after the last name. I named them the Rubensteins because my mother actually played the piano. And some, several of them are musical in this book also. Music is important to them. She played the piano and she played Chopin. She was really quite a good pianist, although she always said that she peaked when she was 11. She's one of those. She sort of knew the waltzes by heart and she would play piano. But her favorite pianist was Arthur Rubenstein. And we had these recordings that she listened to. And so in honor of her, I named them the Rubensteins because he was her favorite pianist. And she was very self deprecating about her music. So she liked to joke because we lived across the street in Honolulu from a piano teacher and the piano teacher used to take walks and then she of course would hear my mother playing. And then one day she came over and she said, oh, you've improved so much. And it was because the recording was on. So my mom used to like to tell that story. But yeah, that's where the name came from.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

I was going to ask later about the music in the book, but since you brought it up, how do you find writing music? Because I think music is such a hard thing to, you know, put into

[Allegra Goodman]

words, like the experience of Playing music.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

Yeah, there's several musicians and there's several, you know, times where you're writing from the experience of both listening to the music and playing the music, and it just.

[Allegra Goodman]

Oh, yeah, well, I. I don't know. I enjoy writing about that, and I think it's very revealing. The way people respond to music, I think, reveals a lot about their characters. So I enjoyed doing that. Two of his sisters live in the Boston area, and they're not speaking to each other in the book. I don't think that's a spoiler because it happens early on, unfortunately. You'll notice that Bundt cake on the COVID That is. That is the proximal cause of the rift between them. But they go to the Boston Symphony. And if those of you who have lived in Boston or have been there, you know, know that we have a great symphony and very proud of it. And we have Symphony hall, which is one of the great halls in the world. And, you know, it's just such a Boston thing. And so the way they deal with their season tickets and the kind of music that they like to listen to is very revealing of them.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

Yeah, that makes sense. So this is a short story collection, and you've been working on these short stories for many years. Right. And some of them have already been. Some of them were published in magazines. And in the meantime, you're working on your other. Your book, Isola, that came out last year as well. So can you talk about sort of the writing process of this book and what these last few years have been?

[Allegra Goodman]

Yeah, it's been very weird. I wrote this sort of before, during and after writing two novels sort of like on the side. It's a story cycle, I would say. It's not really a collection of, like, disparate stories. They have a narrative arc. And so people read it like a novel. And so people said to me, would you call it a story cycle or a novel in stories? Or, like, how would you define it? And I define it as a serial novel or as close as I'll get to a serial novel. So when I was a kid and a young writer, I was obsessed with 19th century novelists who serialized their books in magazines. And, you know, people like Dickens and George Eliot, Trollope, you know, Tolstoy did it. You know, they would write these big books and. But people would read installment after installment. And this isn't quite that, but there were, I think, six or eight pieces of it have been in publishing magazines. Six of them in the New Yorker over time. And while I. When I Started publishing these pieces in the New Yorker. Readers would write to me and respond and say, I'd like to hear more about Lily or. Or what happened to Pam, you know, and so I would get that feedback. I was. I was working, which is different from, like, when you're writing a novel in solitude and, you know, you finish the whole thing and then you kind of heave it electronically from your desk to your editor, all in a piece. And so I decided that this is like as close as I'll get to a serial novel where I had sort of reader feedback along the way. It was very strange writing it at the same time as two other books. But I would say that because of that I wrote it very gradually and because it was sort of written incrementally in these pieces over time, it had a different feel to it than like, say, taking a year and like, this is your full time job. It was always kind of my side project. So most of the book, I would say 90% of this book, I only wrote on Sunday mornings. I was like, writing my novels from Monday to Friday. I don't work on Saturdays. And then Sunday mornings was the time I wrote this book.

[Zibby Owens]

Wow.

[Allegra Goodman]

And I can tell you exactly when I started. And it was many years ago. It was like 12 or 14 years ago. My youngest child was taking a rowing class at the community boathouse on the Charles River. As you know, Cambridge has the Charles going past it. And it was a three hour class. So I would take her there, she was like 10, and I'd go across the street to the Starbucks on Storrow Drive. And I started writing this story about these sisters and this apple cake and the family gathering at the sickbed of the third sister. And I started wondering and thinking as I was writing that story about the trajectory in the lives of each of the members of the family who are gathering. And that was the beginning of this book. And after writing that story, I sort of followed the family. It was sort of. The book grew like a tree, and I just followed each branch and each twig over time. But I got in the habit of just working on this on those Sunday mornings because of that rowing class. And then I kept doing it even after my daughter stopped doing the rowing class.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

How much of the stories that you kept writing was informed by readers being like, I want to hear this versus you? Just feeling, this is where I want to go?

[Allegra Goodman]

Yeah, that's a great question. It wasn't like people had, like, plot ideas or other. Yeah. It was more like. I think it was mostly encouragement you know, they were just like, it was their curiosity that really inspired me. And I thought, oh, I want to, I want to do more of this. I should add that I've worked in this form once before. Thirty years ago I published a book called the Family Markowitz. And it has the same structure. It's three generations of a Jewish American family and the grandparents, the middle aged children and the young adult grandchildren. And it has sort of some of the milestones of Jewish life in it. The Family Markowitz has a wedding. It has a Pesach story, which is probably one of my best known stories and you know, stories about sort of Jewish life. And I had for a long time thought it would be really great to write a latter day Family Marquette. It's about a Jewish family living. Now so much has happened in the last 30 years, of course, and of course I'm also older. When I wrote the Family Markowitz, I was a really young writer. I was in my 20s and I had two little, little children. And now I am in my 50s, I'm a grandmother. I have four grown and three little grandchildren. So it was really interesting to revisit that form and to be like the age, not like when I wrote the Family Markowitz, I was the age of the youngest generation, kind of like projecting and looking up and adopting the, or appropriating the point of view of the older people. And now I really am an older person and I can write about middle age, you know, from, from that point of view and closer to the, and I am a grandparent and I can, you know, understand their perspective, I think with more experience behind it.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

Yeah. And you have, there is a family tree at the very beginning of the book for everybody, which I consulted a couple of times as I was reading because there's just 22 characters in the family tree. Did you like build that tree from, from day one, from the story you had all you had, everybody?

[Allegra Goodman]

Pretty much, yeah. I may have added a little bit to it, but I, you know, it's funny, people think of it as a big family, but it's not a big family in real life. It's just a big family in a book.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

And it doesn't feel like big and confus. You're just like, oh, when you see it. Yeah.

[Allegra Goodman]

No, it's funny because like the family is very much a modern family where they, they have one child or maybe two children. It's not like a, a family like in the old days when there would be like six sisters. And you know, it's, it's not like a big Russian family in in Tolstoy. But I think that if you do consult the family tree like you won't need it. You know, once you, once you, after a little bit, you won't need it.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

Yeah,

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[Nikki Ehrlich]

and what was it like writing these stories where as you said, you're kind of revisiting events from multiple characters perspectives and you're commenting on the other characters and their perspectives as opposed to kind of some of your previous novels where they focus more tightly on, like, one sort of clear protagonist.

[Allegra Goodman]

I've always really enjoyed playing with different points of view. And just what I enjoy about it is giving that the reader is privy to all the secrets and the thoughts and that the reader understands things from the outside just a lot better than the family members understand from inside. And I like giving the reader that access and I like playing with it. And a lot of the humor in the book comes from playing with those

[Nikki Ehrlich]

points of view and what people say. And then your little aside, like. But this is what it actually means, which is always fun.

[Allegra Goodman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

And we're even in the perspective of a dog at one point.

[Allegra Goodman]

Yes, there are some dogs in the book. Yes.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

Do you have any sort of one or two characters that you found kind of the most fun to write?

[Allegra Goodman]

I actually enjoyed them all. I don't favor any of them and I don't take sides. Like, there's no heroes or villains in this book. They're all very. They're human. Like, these people are flawed. They have. They have their mishegos, but they're good people. They fight. They also love each other. It's. To me, they were just very real and very round. And so, you know, there's a divorce in the book. And I never felt when I was writing that like, you know, the ex wife was right or like he was a terrible person. Like, you know, they were. They were. They're good people. They love their children. It didn't work out.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

You feel that. It never feels judgmental, ever.

[Allegra Goodman]

Yeah. Yeah. They judge each other, but I don't judge them. Yeah.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

I'm curious. The order that the stories are in this book. Is that the order that you wrote them in, or did you kind of put them in this?

[Allegra Goodman]

Not completely the order I wrote them in. I actually did once I had sort of critical mass of this material. I did take time away from Sundays, but I took some real time to sort of fit everything together and really think about it and to make sure that there was continuity and that everybody's ages matched up and all that stuff. And I have to say, this book was originally supposed to be published after Sam, but I had been secretly working on this historical novel about the 16th century noblewoman. And so the decision was to publish that one first. And so this book then was delayed. And it really benefited from the delay, as books often do, because I had time away from it. I had time to come back to it and just keep working on it, refining it. So I'm really happy that it was delayed in the end.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

When you're about to start a short story, do you kind of approach it the same way as a novel? Do you outline either one? Do you kind of know the ending? How does it work?

[Allegra Goodman]

I do outline everything, but my outlines always change. And the goal post kind of shifts a lot of times. And when you're working with material and you get a sense of, like, where it's going, and it sort of pushes back against you. The way I might describe it is like, if any of you throw pots on a wheel, you've probably heard ceramicists say, like, the clay will tell me, like, if it's going to be a vessel with a long neck or a short neck, that kind of thing. It is a little bit like, writing can be a little bit like that, where the material also pushes back a little bit the characters. It is different from writing a novel in that a story, you have to create a whole world in a small space, and it's sort of a different art form. And then to have a story cycle or a serial novel like this, they have to kind of work independently and also work together. And so that's an interesting challenge.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

Yeah, I'm sure. And I feel like as I was approaching the end, I was like, how can this book end like this? This could just keep going and going with this family. I could just stay with this family. Like, there's still so much going on. How sort of. When did you feel like, okay, I think this is where I leave them.

[Allegra Goodman]

I think that I actually felt like I said what I had to say about them that I finish off with, There's a birth, and some of them gather for that. And it was like a book. I felt like that was like, the material told me that I was done. And there are various arcs that were completed by that time.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

But are they still living in your head and going on to do different things?

[Allegra Goodman]

You know, as I've said what I have to say about them, but they still talk to me, and I still get messages from them. Like, I even got a message recently from a woman who read a piece of this book in the New Yorker. It was published just a few weeks ago. And the piece was about Helen, one of the older sisters, and her daughter Pam. And this woman just started her message, I am Helen. And she said, my children don't listen to me. And I'm sending them each a copy of this story. And I was like, okay, I'm not sure she completely understood the story, but she's definitely living it. So, as you see, my characters write to me, so I don't need to write them anymore.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

How was it kind of going back and forth with Isola in this book? Because, Isla, you said it's historical fiction, it's based on true events, and this is very different.

[Allegra Goodman]

It's really different. Actually. The fact that it's so different really helped. I think it's refreshing to work on something very, very different. And they were also sort of in different stages. They, you know, as I was working on them. So it was. It was refreshing and fun. Just a different style. You might not know if you didn't know me. And you just sort of looked at the two books without knowing the author. You might not know it was the same person who wrote them.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

Which is the exciting.

[Allegra Goodman]

Quite different.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

Well, that. I mean, because that's obviously a book about physical isolation. Someone who is marooned on an island.

[Allegra Goodman]

Yeah.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

This is a book where, like, no one is ever alone because there's always all these family members always gathering. But that doesn't mean they're not.

[Allegra Goodman]

That's challenging as well. Yeah, it's also challenging. Yes.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

Yeah. And, like, how do you kind of explore that tension between sort of loneliness and constant togetherness?

[Allegra Goodman]

Yes. Yeah. That's something that interests me in all my work. And actually, a lot of my books. My books tend to be diverse. They're quite different from each other in their subject, but you can see sort of underlying themes in all of them. And that's one of them. You know, the loneliness and companionship and being alone and being part of a group and the politics of a group, the politics of family, is very interesting to me, and I've explored it in just sort of many different arenas. I wrote a book about a laboratory called Intuition, about a bunch of scientists, and that was more of a. But that was also a book about family. It was about a work family with a work husband and a work wife and their rebellious postdocs who were their. And those dynamics are playing out there. And so, you know, even though it seemed different in subject, underneath, there were some of the things I was interested in.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

And Sam, of course, also, you know, being the coming of age, but pretty much entirely from this kind of younger generation. And then with this book, you open up to all the generations.

[Allegra Goodman]

Yes, yes. Yeah.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

So do you point to any kind of particular authors or particular stories that kind of were foundational for you? Because you said you've done many different genres, many different formats.

[Allegra Goodman]

Yeah. Well, in terms of the short story and the writing about family, I think Eudora Welty was a very important writer for me growing up, and she is this wonderful Southern writer and she wrote. She had a great sense of voice and of place, and I love her dialogue and I loved her humor when I was a kid. So she was really important to me. Another one, Catherine Ann Porter, who was so good at particularly the coming of age on the young girl, you know, young woman subjects. She was important to me. So those. Those are two examples sort of in this form. And then, as I said, I've always loved like these 19th century writers, and one of the things I loved about them and still love about them is that they don't just write a novel about one person. It's like a whole community. Like, you know, there's a whole world there that they conjure up in a book like Middlemarch or a book like, you know, David Copperfield or Great Expect is I. I love their. Their reach and their range and their ambition. So. So that kind of thing inspired me.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

Do your reading habits change based on kind of what you're working on at the time?

[Allegra Goodman]

Oh.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

Or do you always just sort of read?

[Allegra Goodman]

I sort of read whatever I want. I try to keep up with, you know, current writers as well as the. As the older ones.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

Sure. But then obviously for certain books like Isla, there's a lot of research involved. And then for this, probably not quite as much.

[Allegra Goodman]

No, no, no, no, no, no. Shockingly little research. Yeah. With Isola, I spent a lot of time just thinking about Marguerite's world, thinking about fashion in the 16th century, listening to music that they would have played at that time, thinking about jewelry, thinking about ships and navigation and the hunting of polar bears and the way polar bears hunt and just all sorts of things I did. It was a very different kind of reading.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

I could see then why this would be a refreshing.

[Allegra Goodman]

For sure.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

Definitely. Well, can you tell us a little bit about the COVID you mentioned the bun cake. I think this cover is. It's so, like the. Like, the art is just so beautiful.

[Allegra Goodman]

Thank you. Yeah. The paint. They found this artwork and actually recently somebody posted like or sent me a message and he was like, my cousin did the painting that's on your book. And she's a wonderful artist and she specializes in food paintings. Who knew. And he's a novelist. Aaron Hamburger, actually. And he. That is his name, his cousin, like, you know, so the art director must have found this wonderful image that she created of the bundt cake. And I love the COVID because it reminds me of. It's sort of retro looking, and it reminds me of like, a kosher cookbook from the 1950s.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

It does. The cookbook is. I see that.

[Allegra Goodman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

Did you say you want the sort of apple cake on the COVID No,

[Allegra Goodman]

no, this is all their idea. Yeah, they consulted me afterwards and I loved it from the beginning, so.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

And when did you pick the title? Because the title of the collection is the title of one of the stories.

[Allegra Goodman]

So actually I couldn't decide what the title would be for quite a while. I thought about even calling it the Family Rubenstein to sort of chime in with the Family Markowitz, but is a very different book and I'm a different person. That seemed kind of boring. I thought about, like, maybe trying to use apple cake in the title. And my sister read an earlier draft of the. A finished draft of the book, and it was her idea to take the title from the story and make it the title of the book. And in the story, it has a different context a little bit, but it turned out to be, like a really playful, fun title, so I went with it. But credit to my sister Paula for coming up with this.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

I feel like there's also a little bit, like, because as an author, you probably get asked all the time, like, oh, is this your family? Is this you? It's like, this is not about us. This is not.

[Allegra Goodman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

So it's not my family.

[Allegra Goodman]

Oh, totally. In fact, when I first finished the book, I sent it to my daughter. The one who had done the rowing Class is now 23, and she's in London. And I sent her, you know, an email with this as an attachment. And she called me and said, I think it's really cute how you labeled the document. This is not about us to reassure the family. And I was like, no, that's not to reassure the family. That is actually the title of the book. And she was like, oh, so it is about us? No, no, no. It's a fictional family.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

Well, the last question I have to ask, because this book kicks off with this family feud about this recipe, this apple cake. Are there any family recipes in your family that you think are good enough to start a war?

[Allegra Goodman]

Oh, you know, my mom was funny. She didn't give people recipes, or she would say, like, this is a really good recipe, but it's not for you. Like.

[Nikki Ehrlich]

Like, you can't handle it. You can't.

[Allegra Goodman]

And she was right. I'm not a serious baker. She could really bake. I. I bake on the page like I slave over a fictional stove. But she was really quite good and she could do apple strudel and she could do ragalach and she was really a fine baker. Sylvia, who makes the apple cake in this book, is sort of an intuitive baker. She does like it's not a fancy cake that she makes and that's what frustrates her sister so much. It's not fussy, you know, but just delicious. It's just delicious. And it smells really good when it's baking. So wonderful. Thank you so much for coming.

[Zibby Owens]

Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Sydney formerly Moms don't have time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram ibyoens and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.

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