Cory Booker - I Want To Be Your President

Summary

Podcast Summary: Toure Show – "Cory Booker - I Want To Be Your President"

Introduction

In the April 13, 2025 episode of the Toure Show, host Torre engages in a profound conversation with Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey, exploring his journey towards presidential candidacy. The discussion delves into Booker's personal experiences, his philosophy on kindness and empathy, his political strategies, and his vision for healing a divided America. This comprehensive summary captures the essence of their dialogue, highlighting key insights and notable quotes with corresponding timestamps.

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Background of Cory Booker

Torre opens the conversation by acknowledging Cory Booker's longstanding reputation as a "superstar at life," referencing his successes preceding his tenure as mayor. This sets the stage for a deep dive into Booker's character and motivations.

Kindness as a Superpower

Senator Booker challenges the notion of superpowers by emphasizing the underestimated strength of kindness:

“Underrated is kindness. Like I just watched two parents who were really good people and would see people that folks walk past all the time.”
— Cory Booker [01:43]

He shares a pivotal moment from his time at Stanford University, where choosing kindness over personal discomfort on a packed flight led to an unexpected and enduring connection.

Booker's Plane Story: A Testament to Empathy

Booker recounts an experience aboard a cramped flight where he chose to engage with a struggling family instead of succumbing to personal frustration:

“I think that we all don't realize we have a choice that we make every moment of our lives, which is to accept things as they are or take responsibility for changing them.”
— Cory Booker [02:30]

This act of kindness not only transformed the flight experience but also had a lasting impact on his political career, illustrating how small acts can lead to significant outcomes.

Motivations and Responsibility

The conversation shifts to the sense of responsibility borne from historical struggles and personal upbringing:

“I have a responsibility to the people who marched, who died, who protested, who were enslaved their whole lives. I wouldn't be here without them. So I have to do something.”
— Cory Booker [05:50]

Booker reflects on his parents' involvement in the civil rights movement, reinforcing his commitment to serve communities that have been historically marginalized.

Experience as Mayor: Building Empathy and Civic Grace

Discussing his tenure as Mayor of Newark, Booker highlights initiatives that combined empathy with actionable change, such as personally shoveling driveways and even participating in a hunger strike to understand the plight of those on food stamps:

“Kindness is energy. There's a Stanford professor actually studies this that you just doing one kind act witnessed by someone. It will affect people.”
— Cory Booker [05:50]

He elaborates on how these actions not only built trust within the community but also garnered national attention, demonstrating the power of personal involvement in leadership.

Navigating Media and Political Adversity

Booker shares his strategic response to negative media portrayal, specifically his interaction with Conan O'Brien:

“Let's talk. And I filmed a video, and I basically said behind my mayor's desk, looking all official, that Conan O'Brien has insulted the city of Newark. By the power vested in me, I hereby Ban Conan O'Brien from Newark Airport. You're on the no Fly List.”
— Cory Booker [16:43]

This creative approach not only turned a slight into positive earned media but also showcased his ability to control his narrative and engage with broader audiences.

Bipartisan Cooperation and Building Relationships

A significant portion of the discussion centers on Booker's efforts to reach across the aisle, fostering relationships with Republican counterparts to achieve legislative goals:

“If you try to play him on his turf and his terms, that is a recipe for losing.”
— Cory Booker [30:59]

He emphasizes the importance of empathy and understanding in overcoming partisan divides, recounting successful collaborations even with those holding opposing views.

Campaign Strategies and National Vision

Transitioning to his presidential campaign, Booker outlines his strategy focused on grassroots organization, leveraging technology, and building a cohesive Democratic front:

“These first two primary states are about the size of my city. I got really excited when somebody broke down to me what it takes to win those first two primary states because I'm like, wait a minute, I'm a retail guy. This is how I came up. I can do this.”
— Cory Booker [59:34]

He critiques the current primary system, advocating for a more equitable approach in selecting presidential candidates.

Addressing National Divisions and Global Competition

Booker discusses the deep-seated divisions within America and the external pressures from authoritarian regimes, underlining the need for unified leadership:

“The corporations, the media, I can go through the people that are invested in tearing us apart. The soul of our nation right now is at stake, and we need to resurrect that spirit and save this country from slipping into mediocrity or slipping into what's even worse to tearing itself apart.”
— Cory Booker [74:18]

He calls for a revival of civic grace and empathy to navigate both internal and external challenges.

Personal Reflections and Identity

In a candid moment, Booker addresses personal identity challenges and societal perceptions, reinforcing his authenticity and dedication to his roots:

“There are people who live right next to somebody or somebody in their family right now that is putting aside a prescription, a life saving prescription drug because they can't afford it. Well, if that was you.”
— Cory Booker [05:50]

He counters stereotypes imposed by figures like Tucker Carlson, affirming his unwavering commitment to justice and community service.

Vision for the Presidency: Healing and Unity

Booker's vision for the presidency revolves around healing national divides through creative leadership and fostering empathetic policies:

“I'm a prisoner of hope and hope, as I learned from folk In Newark, woman on the fifth floor of the projects whose son was murdered. And she was still one of the most hopeful people I ever met. She taught me that hope is the act of conviction, that despair will not have the last word.”
— Cory Booker [38:51]

He articulates a presidential agenda centered on bold policies, innovative solutions, and inclusive governance aimed at restoring America's standing both domestically and globally.

Closing Thoughts and Call to Action

In the concluding segments, Booker underscores the urgency of active citizenship and collective responsibility to drive meaningful change:

“These first two primary states are about the size of my city. ... We beat a machine in Newark by out organizing them, by having real connections in communities. So folks knew who I was.”
— Cory Booker [59:34]

He encourages listeners to engage in their communities, emphasizing that personal involvement is pivotal in shaping the nation's future.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. On Kindness as a Superpower:

   “Underrated is kindness...that just a kind word to somebody at the right time can make a difference that you don't even realize.”
   — Cory Booker [01:43]

2. On Responsibility and Heritage:

   “I have a responsibility to the people who marched, who died...I have to do something.”
   — Cory Booker [05:50]

3. On Media Strategy:

   “I hereby Ban Conan O'Brien from Newark Airport. You're on the no Fly List.”
   — Cory Booker [16:43]

4. On Bipartisan Cooperation:

   “If you try to play him on his turf and his terms, that is a recipe for losing.”
   — Cory Booker [30:59]

5. On National Healing:

   “The soul of our nation right now is at stake, and we need to resurrect that spirit...”
   — Cory Booker [74:18]

6. On Hope and Conviction:

   “I'm a prisoner of hope...hope is the act of conviction, that despair will not have the last word.”
   — Cory Booker [38:51]

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Conclusion

The episode offers an in-depth exploration of Cory Booker's ethos, highlighting his unwavering commitment to kindness, empathy, and bipartisan collaboration. Booker presents himself not just as a politician, but as a community leader dedicated to healing America's divisions and fostering a more just and unified nation. His candid reflections and strategic insights provide listeners with a compelling understanding of his vision for the presidency and his approach to overcoming the complex challenges facing the United States.

For more episodes and insights from successful individuals, visit DCP Entertainment's Toure Show.

Transcript

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[Toure]

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[Cory Booker]

I don't know. What is that? If you were hearing about me before I was mayor, then you were in the time of public enemy. And I could just say, don't believe the hype. Look, the superpower that was evidenced for me growing up, which was, I'm not exaggerating, I think it's actually a superpower. Underrated is kindness. Like I just watched two parents who were really good people and would see people that folks walk past all the time. One of my favorite quotes by a humorist, Dave Barry has this quote that every he goes, someone who is nice to you but not nice to the waiter is not a nice person. But you and I both know, because I know you have this kindness in you as well, that when you are kind to people, incredible things happen that you don't realize. One of my favorite stories, and I'll tell you the quicker version, but you know, going to school at Stanford, I'd fly back and forth across the country and I still remember getting on this plane as a Stanford student and being it was torturous when you were like 6 foot 3, football player, tight end, just like coach Was, you know, always like, my knees were gonna be banged up. But I get on this plane, and I have two seats open next to me. The rest of the plane is full. And just before the door closes, this woman walks in with a screaming baby and a little boy. And everybody on that plane knows where they're sitting because they're the only three bodies, two seats. And I think that we all don't realize we have a choice that we make every moment of our lives, which is to accept things as they are or take responsibility for changing them. And so something evolved thought for teenage college student at that point hit me, which was, this is either going to be the worst flight of my life or. Or I can try to make it the best. So I just leaned in and started talking to her in the crying baby. And as soon as I got out of my own drama, I realized, oh, my gosh, this woman has a crying baby, and the whole plane is looking at her like she's evil, as if she did something outside and told her baby to cry purposefully. And so we just started having a good time. I still remember the movie. Think about this, how purposeful this moment was for me. I remember that this movie was Glory with Denzel Washington. And she's like, I haven't seen a movie in so long. And I'm like, watch this movie. Your son and I were gonna play games. We played Hangman. I killed him with all my best dad jokes that I had, even back then.

[Toure]

Oh, I thought you'd say I killed him. In Hangman.

[Cory Booker]

I am a very competitive man. And by the time we landed, it was the quickest flight I ever had. Cross country. He said we'd keep in touch. You know, we exchanged addresses back then, email, and didn't. And five, 10, 15 years later, I'm running for mayor of the city of Newark, and I'm getting, like, thumped. And on one of my toughest, most frustrating days, I get this letter in the mail saying to me, you may not remember me, but you were on this flight. First time I flew with my kids, telling me what the kindness then meant to her. And then she tells me, by the way, my family owns a big factory in Newark, and we have tons of employees. She ended up becoming a big part of my campaign. That kid that I tortured with my jokes became one of our best volunteers. Her workers that she introduced me to started taking me to their churches, introducing me. It was just an amazing full circle. That kindness is energy. There's a Stanford professor actually studies this that you just doing one kind act witnessed by someone. It will affect people. 3 degrees of separation for you. She created a way to measuring it. It's a virtuous thing. And so in my life, I just think that that is a superpower that we underrelate, that just a kind word to somebody at the right time can make a difference that you don't even realize. So I don't know if I don't have any superpowers. I'm really far more ordinary than the hype, as you just said. But I've just tried to go out of my way. And for me, it's a matter of my faith, which is this idea of radical love trying to do for people. And when you have parents like you and I probably had as two black guys who had parents that would not let me forget of the struggle, you know, parents that were involved in the civil rights movement, that I was raised up thinking, like, I didn't. The privileges that I enjoy were not earned. They were paid for as my grandparents by the blood, sweat and tears of your ancestors.

[Toure]

I definitely grew up thinking, you know, I stand on the shoulders of those who came before me. I have a responsibility to the people who marched, who died, who protested, who were enslaved their whole lives. I remember being in college and thinking, you know, if I was white, you know, and I didn't feel that responsibility of the past, it'd be cool to, like, be in the CIA, but I can't. I have a responsibility to people who came before me. I wouldn't be here without them. So I have to do something. And perhaps my. I think my journey in media has been something of, you know, being helpful to black people in some way. But, you know, that sense of responsibility that you talk about, I definitely felt. And you have. That has powered your life.

[Cory Booker]

It is the. I said my faith earlier, but that is an integral part of what has motivated my life decisions and very. You know, I am here because a group of people fought for my housing rights. Like, I grew up in the town I grew up in, in Harrington park, there was a group of activists. When my parents were getting denied, real estate agents were lying to them, right? And telling this house is sold. It was called real estate steering at the time. And so they set up this sting operation where they would send white couples right behind my parents. And so it. I mean, this was a story, ended up making a chapter in my book because it involved, at one point, my father's lawyer being punched in the face. I mean, just like dog being signaled. My dad, like craziness. But I'm a baby when that happened, it was 50 years ago this summer that it happened. And so imagine growing up with parents that could literally look you in the eye. And my dad would be like, boy, people had to fight to even get you a chance to be in the school you're going to. So you're gonna get your ass out of bed and go to school and make the best out of yourself. And so coming out of law school when I'm done, and I always joke that my dad was, like, not that impressed. He was proud of his son. But, you know, I go to Stanford, Oxford, Yale. He's like, boy, you got more degrees the month of July, but you ain't hot. Life ain't about the degrees you get. It's about the service you give. Like, what are you gonna do with all this privilege? And so the first job I had coming out of law school was a tenants rights lawyer. People fought for my housing rights. I was gonna go and fight for other people's. And so my life. And I love that you said this because, you know, we grew up reading Du Bois and Talented 10th and the obligations that you get from getting the privileges that, you know, are denied to. You know, you and I are sitting here as black men who, you know, I know the data. I mean, the leading cause of death for us, murder, 54. Between 50 and 60% of homicides in America are. People look a lot like us black men. And so you feel this sense of like, I can't rest. I gotta keep working, I gotta keep pushing until we can make this society be what it is. And by the way, even if we never get there, at least we can try to pay back what was given to us.

[Toure]

Yeah, this sense of being kind and directly serving people is so much of your reputation. You're the guy who shoveled your constituent's driveway and rescued a specific person from a fire. Not just talking about it, not just policy, but actually getting your hands dirty and doing it. I mean, this comes from your parents example or where does this come from?

[Cory Booker]

Both. Look, my parents were, again, like, you know, this. The black culture. Like, you show up for people, you're there for people, you know, and then an activist culture. I mean, my mom did sit ins. My mom put herself in danger for the larger cause. And this idea of physical safety is something that I think we take for granted that there's lots of people in this country. I still remember a conversation I had my freshman year in college with a guy who was waking me up just to heterosexual privilege. He's like, I can't hold my boyfriend's hand in places without feeling that I could be beaten for that. And so I just made a decision for my life. People were like, why are you living in the neighborhood you're living in? So for the last, basically my entire professional career, I've made a decision to live in very well. People would ask that question, neighborhoods. But my response often to people is, there are thousands of people live in my neighborhood. And if you're worried about me, let's be worried about everybody that lives in neighborhoods like this and do something about it as opposed to just saying, well, I'm going to move out. And I used to say this when I first started my political career. If we had every person who was elected to represent someplace, had to, by being elected, live in the toughest parts of the area they represent, there'd be a lot more moral urgency to deal with the problems. But we've created this country where it's so easy not to see the suffering of people who may be your neighbor. There are people who live right next to somebody or somebody in their family right now that is putting aside a prescription, a life saving prescription drug because they can't afford it. Well, if that was you. And I get kind of, I'm one of these folks that I get frustrated sometimes where somebody says, well, I now support gay marriage because my son came out and was gay. Well, is your empathy that strained that you can't. That you need somebody in your family to be affected by issue X or issue Y before you sort of get it? And I say that again, I should point fingers at myself. My dad going through Parkinson's and Parkinson's dementia, sure, literally drove me to pushing legislation for caregivers and people that are taking care of family members like that. But I say all the time that we need in this country, revival of civic grace, more courageous empathy for one another. Because I think that that would help us to solve more of this nation's problems. Because people don't understand that mass incarceration doesn't just affect the disproportionate African Americans who are there. It affects us all. I mean, between the time I was in law school, the time I was the mayor of the city of Newark, we were building a new prison or jail every 10 days while the rest of our infrastructure crumbled. You can't incarcerate human beings and deny them human rights without it somehow affecting you as well. The same thing with mentally ill homeless, denying them housing. I now know the data. It's actually far more expensive to society to have somebody mentally ill and homeless that we walk by. But we don't know that's quite literally costing us taxpayer dollars because they end up in hospitals or emergency rooms or our jails.

[Toure]

This penchant to really get your hands dirty in this way. The ten day hunger strike as well, once you lived on $2, was it $2.50 a day for like a week or two?

[Cory Booker]

It was hard. That's what it was. It was hard.

[Toure]

Some people have been cynical about these things, right, and looked at them like, oh, these are political stunts, right? Like, what do you say to those folks?

[Cory Booker]

Well, depending on what you're talking about. Because going on a 10 day hunger strike and dangerous projects was 100% done to try to get people to pay attention and to try to prick people's empathy. And you know, the place I did this hunger strike, it used to really frustrate me because it was right kind of under an overpass to this highway that goes off 95 and goes right into the wealthiest suburbs in the country. And people would just get off right there in Newark, almost like a McDonald's, drive through and buy drugs in this place, then get back on and forget what they just drove through and not realize the hell that was being unleashed as a result of the drug trade there that they were participating in. So sometimes you do do things because you want people to understand. You put yourself on food stamps, SNAP benefits and document it and show how freaking hard it was. And for me, it was even empathy growing because I'm a guy that lives in a neighborhood where people use what is amounts to food stamps. And for me, even by the end of that two weeks, I would have killed somebody for some ice cream. I was just like, you know, I mean, and yet you see people who are in a supermarket checkout line trying to judge people what they're buying. So look, I knew as mayor of a city that everybody had locked in their mind as just a place of crime and corruption. I couldn't get philanthropy, I couldn't get developers. I couldn't get. I remember a supermarket chain I went out to see in Las Vegas and they laughed at me when I suggested coming to a place where there's a food desert. And so a strategy for mine as mayor by the time I became mayor, because some of those things I did when I was a city councilman was I have to put my city on a map and I've got to get people to pay attention to it and expand their moral imagination about what's possible here because they don't see the worth of my community. And so we did crazy stuff. I mean, I remember I couldn't get on TV shows to talk about it. So when Conan O'Brien insulted my city on the Tonight show, he literally said that I had done something to lower prescription drugs for some of my constituents. Got some national attention, prescription drug costs. It did. And. And so he goes on TV and says, I hear Newark, New Jersey, has a great new health care plan. And then he says, well, I think the best healthcare plan for the city of Newark is a bus ticket out of town. And I was like, damn. Okay, Conan, it's on. Let's talk. And I filmed a video, and I basically said behind my mayor's desk, looking all official, that Conan O'Brien has insulted the city of Newark. And by the power vested in me, I bragged about the city a little bit and made some other jokes. But I said, by the power vested in me by the people of the city of Newark, I hereby Ban Conan O'Brien from Newark Airport. You're on the no Fly List. Try jfk, buddy. And the thing goes viral. I mean, so viral that the TSA on his website did a little clarification that mayors in America can't ban people from their airports. Yeah. And it just became a big story. And Conan responds and plays along because then he bans me from Burbank Airport, which some of your listeners know. If you're flying to la, that's not a big deal. But it became the number one story in America, that sort of news cycle. And now I'm sitting on Larry King's show and suddenly getting a chance to talk about my city. He ends up inviting me on his show after Hillary Clinton recorded a video as a joke, just saying, corey Conan, give peace a chance kind of thing. And then I'm on national tv. Now a mayor of Newark, New Jersey, is sitting on the Tonight show couch talking about his city. Conan, to his credit, apologizes and gives $100,000 to Newark charities. But coming off of that, I now had more earned media in a week for my city. Positive earned media that we probably got in the previous 10 years. And I can now call foundation heads. They knew who I was. So some of this, frankly, Donald Trump was found creative ways and dark, awful ways to steal media attention, to become the story to bring, to disintermediate the media. I mean, he used Twitter. I used to use Twitter in creative ways in Newark to help people solve problems.

[Toure]

It connected you. It made you very Direct. And we can reach out to him and tell him, hey, my grandfather is snowed in. And you're like, yes, I will help him. Not like, you know, we're gonna bomb a country if they don't give us money.

[Cory Booker]

Yes. And so it's like when TV first came out, people said it was gonna destroy society, but it actually ended up being a neutral platform for both the profane and also for the profound. It was a cultural unifier roots the last episode of M A S Hm. And it also drove a celebrity culture where we mistake now wealth with worth, celebrity with significance, popularity for purpose. So Twitter and these social media platforms are brave new world for us. But there are people every day that use them for good. And then a president found ways to, you know, to distract us, soak evil. I would literally agree. He's used those platforms to drive hate, bigotry, racism.

[Toure]

I mean, specifically right now, we have this national controversy that we're dealing with, which comes from his tweets where he's attacking Congresswoman Omar and Ocasio Cortez and Talib. And who's the other fourth member of the squad? I'm forgetting Omar. I'm forgetting the fourth member of the squad.

[Cory Booker]

Right, Pressley.

[Toure]

Yes, yes, yes. Thank you, thank you, thank you, Congresswoman Pressley. My mother's congresswoman.

[Cory Booker]

Okay, all right.

[Toure]

You know, just a baseless attack that is just pure racism. Just pure. If you don't like black and brown people, this is for you. I mean, and we've been dealing with this for years now.

[Cory Booker]

I wouldn't even go further than that. Let's be clear. We've been dealing with this from the founding of our nation.

[Toure]

Of course.

[Cory Booker]

I mean, there is bigotry written to our documents. Native Americans in the Declaration of Independence are referred to as savages. And this brand of politics we've seen, I mean, I've been looking at Donald Trump's language. George Wallace used the same racist tropes, the same ones accusing your enemies of being communist. Martin Luther King was accused of being communist, the Know Nothing Party, which was an anti immigration party then against Irish and German. He uses the same tropes. And in his career, the same thing he's saying about making up abject lies about Ilhan Omar and Al Qaeda. He used the same type of lies when 911 happened. And he said there were thousands of Muslims in Jersey City standing on buildings celebrating an abject lie. And so he is worse than a racist. He is somebody that is using racism as a way to demean, degrade and A way to like the Know Nothing party did, as a way to elevate his political power. He is trafficking in this. He is feeding upon these baser emotions, instincts and bigotries to propel himself forward.

[Toure]

And it looks like this is what his campaign is going to be about.

[Cory Booker]

But we saw this in the 2018 midterms and by the way the mainstream media played into it. He was a guy we are literally the strongest nation in human civilization and he wanted to try to make us terrified of. This was the main story that he was pushing going into the 2018 elections. That the strongest nation on the planet earth should be afraid of a caravan of migrants, unarmed poor people coming with nothing, women and children. And by the way, the New York Times had at least three of the five days leading into above the fold pictures of this so called threat to this country. And as soon as the election was over, boom, nothing happened. Now I want to go through more elections because I still remember Obama dealing with a midterm that he got shellacked. I think it was the 2014 election. The right wing noise machine was all about Ebola and all these. It was Ebola and the caravan then too. It was all fear based politics appealing to people's. You know, I would be surprised if it wasn't the. What was it? What do they call them? The African bees. The African killing bees. Anything to conjure images of fears. I have a friend of mine from Montana, the Tester, who told me that John Tester is one of my favorite people, period, in all of Washington. Hilarious guy and just a guy I can joke with. We have funny videos out there of him mugging me on the basketball court. I mean he literally. I should have pressed charges after what he did to me going for a layup. And he's a funny guy. He said, cory, come up and campaign for me. And I joke with him. Yeah, you're trying to get me to get the African American vote in Montana. Don't worry, John, I will find the five of them and make sure that at least you get at least 60% of their support and at least three of them I'll get for you. But then one of the top polling issues in his campaign was immigration at the border. And it's Montana and I'm not talking about the Canadian border. Hey, it's Mandy Moore, Sterling K. Brown and Chris Sullivan from that Was us.

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[Cory Booker]

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[Cory Booker]

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[Toure]

Immigration is not a massive impact on most Americans lives. It's not a big impact on their economic lives. And you see the impact of the Republican party and the right wing media machine making this a massive issue where in the Democratic debate the first issue we go to is immigration. This is not a major issue for not like climate, not like the War on drugs, not like economic issues.

[Cory Booker]

Well I'll give you this, the flip of this actually is that it is a big impact in a positive way.

[Toure]

Yes.

[Cory Booker]

I mean dreamers alone add billions of dollars to our economy. I brought a dreamer to the State of the Union address. A woman who started an Internet platform and it's almost comical to me if it wasn't tragic and if her life hasn't been thrown into fear and anxiety. But she created an Internet platform that is employing part time about 800 people. I mean there's a Rhodes Scholar that's A dreamer that can't go over what we're doing, these self inflicted wounds we're doing to ourselves, all under the name of security, which, by the way, Donald Trump is making us less secure. Because as I know from Newark now, you have immigrant communities that are afraid to report crimes.

[Toure]

Right, right, right.

[Cory Booker]

So our communities, you're tearing at the fabric of our communities, that you need them to be more united in order to fight back against the real threats to us. So I just, if this anything, it is a tired, well worn treadmill in our politics. As I often say, the gardens of American democracy have never been free of the weeds of demagoguery, bigotry, hate, nativism. But the things defined us, which this is our test, is how we've responded to those weeds. And so this, I say this 2014, excuse me, this 2020 election is a very powerful, oh, feedback. The 2014 election is. It's as much a referendum on him as it is on who we are and who we're going to be to each other. And do these vile strains that have existed in every generation of culture strangle us and pull us down, or do we rid ourselves of them and again herald those ideals of grace and empathy, the ideals of, as those framers where I just talked about the Declaration of Independence getting some things wrong. But obviously this is one of the greatest documents written in humanity heralding the beginning of our country. And what they got right at the end was saying if we're going to make it as a nation, we need a declaration of interdependence. They said we must mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor. And so those words, sacred honor is like, is that what we're going to be about? Because there's nothing sacred, nothing honorable about the way this president is conducting his politics.

[Toure]

Do you think that, that you and the other Democrats in the Senate and Congress have done enough to thwart what Trump has been trying to do?

[Cory Booker]

Clearly, no. I mean, clearly no. And look, we thwarted him in the 2018 elections in a significant way. But the ultimate test, are we doing enough? Is going to become to the 2020 elections. And remember, we were a party divided going into the 2020, and we were a party that was letting other literally foreign nationals feast upon our divisions. You know, we, the Russians, if you, I've read the intelligence reports, their strategy is to make us hate each other. Not just American Republican Democrats would say feed that and fuel that, which is problematic because we need new American majorities, cross party majorities to get big Stuff done. But they also are making us hate each other as Democrats as well. Trying to foment a battle between left and right between Bernie Sanders supporters and Secretary Clinton supporters. And I've seen the bots. I've seen their tactics. If we are not consciously trying to put more indivisible back into this one nation under God, trying to find common cause and common ground and this desire to thinking that as Democratics we have to defeat Republicans as opposed to. What I try to talk about is like, look, yeah, I want to win my partisan elections, but the larger cause has got to be the unite Americans. And so I remember going out to, going out to red state, meet with red state Republican farmers. This is before I'm running for president of the United States, because I knew we had common cause. And one of the farms I went to, and I'll never forget this gentleman brought his neighbors together. But the person who was chirping me around didn't tell me this until after I was leaving, that that guy didn't want me in his house. He called him up and said, I can't have Cory Booker in my house because we are a Christian family. And the guy's like, well, I don't know what religion has to do with this, but Cory is a pretty Christian Christian. He's like, this faith's really important to him. But the guy had been in his echo chamber, which is designed to make us hate each other. And by the way, you get better ratings the more you fire up people's hate and get people more outraged. And so I still remember how funny it was when I walked out of the car. I could sense this guy's standoff ness. And he took me down to see his, you know, his cows. And I'm trying to, you know, for me, it's a challenge to try to make somebody laugh. So I'm making the worst jokes known to man like this. Your herd is utterly amazing. You know, I'm going to loin some lessons here. I'm going to milk this moment for everything. So I just was going on until finally he started smiling and he even said, made a remark to me as we were walking back to his house. He goes, I thought I was gonna have to tell you to smile because again, they're pitching the angry black guy in that. So we get to his house and we start talking about the issues. Most Americans don't know that the farmer's share of the consumer dollar has gone down dramatically. Why? Corporate consolidation in the ag sector, Monsanto and other a few companies now control the majority of their source products, the seeds and the chemicals for farming. Raising their prices, they're going to squeeze from the top because now instead of having three or four people competing to buy their goods, they have one. In fact, one of the guys had to be encouraged by his neighbors to tell me the truth because he was so afraid of that one company that he was going to criticize finding out and cutting him off, making an example out of it. And so by the time we're leaving, he's asking for selfies with me and his family and we're getting along. There's one of my. I love Brene Brown. I'm just one of these guys that has.

[Toure]

I love her, too.

[Cory Booker]

Yes, thank you for saying that as two fellas. And she has a saying that it's hard to hate up close. So pull people in. And if we are not doing the exercise. Look, I had grievances with Chris Christie. I mean, I could write a dissertation on my disagreements with him, but he was the governor of the state and I was the mayor of the largest city. I couldn't get things done without finding common ground. And we found friendship, even though we disagree on big issues.

[Toure]

And you've taken that to the Senate. You are one of the Democrats who are consistently reaching across the aisle, finding Republicans to do things with. And it seems like he's not just finding the Republican who can work, but he's making friends across the aisle, which seems difficult when the GOP really is enthralled with division and dislike and hatred and just going to D.C. to obstruct and create dysfunction. And yet you've been able to make common cause with these folks. How have you done that?

[Cory Booker]

Well, first of all, it's very easy to fall into believing that the other side is somehow evil. And there are people tell them to think we're evil and we do demonizing as well. And I know this because, look, Chris Christie, going back to him, he fell 10 points in the Iowa in the New Hampshire polls because they ran commercials against him hugging Barack Obama. Hugging a man was such a betrayal in their primary that, and I'm not exaggerating, that was the main point of their commercial. You hugged Barack Obama. So when I hugged John McCain on the Senate floor after he came back from what became a terminal cancer diagnosis, by the time I got home, I was being torched by people on Twitter. And it's almost like we're saying that we that just having common conversation or human contact. But by the way, that creates an environment where you don't get things done. And the story I have been telling a lot is after it was right around the Kavanaugh hearings that I'm battling to negotiate the criminal justice reform bill. And let me tell you, the thousands of people that are now getting out of prison disproportionately African American. You know, the crack cocaine, powder cocaine disparity, retroactivity, change alone. I hope I'm not using too much Washington speak. What I mean by that is that there's disparities for powder and crack cocaine that are just unjust in terms of just the science of the drug. And crack is something that's more. That more African Americans would be arrested by. So by changing the ratio of not being 100 to 1 to 18 to 1 was progress. One to one would be what I want. But they didn't make it retroactive. So you had people in prison for generation versus people who got sentenced after changing it to 18 and one that were coming in and out. So we made it retroactive in this bill. 90% of the people affected that are black. So here I am in the rows of negotiating a bill and at the Kavanaugh hearings going on, which I was just rolling up my sleeves and saying, okay, let's fight. I mean, I had Corny during that threatening to throw me out of the Senate. And I'm like, bring it, man. This is something we just gotta fight over. But during that, I'm trying to get the last provision into that bill, which is something very personal to me, because what we do in this case, other countries call torture, which is putting children in solitary confinement. And I'll never forget, in my negotiation with the White House, they loop in Lindsey Graham, who, coming out of the Kavanaugh hearing, wasn't the most popular person, but I have a relationship with Lindsey. And as soon as Lindsey's pulled in by the White House, he goes to bat for me. He says, you can't get this bill done without Cory point blank. Give him what he wants. The law of our land on the federal level is an effective ban on juvenile solitary confinement. Because I had a relationship with somebody who I vehemently disagree with on a.

[Toure]

Lot of issues, and those relationships are hard to create. Are there moments for Dems and Republicans to create those, or do you have to go out of your way to create those relationships?

[Cory Booker]

You work on them, and there are people on their side of the aisle at work as well. I got recently a senator. I got recently asked to go to meet with a senator, go out to dinner with a senator. I don't want to say who because I don't know if he wants it public. But, you know, I'm friends with Tim Scott. I am legitimately friends. I love the brother. I mean, I would love to see a Democrat in that seat. But he and I have got big things done together. There's a bill called Opportunity Zones right now that's, you know, Heflin, Alabama is building a memory Senate.

[Toure]

We as Dems are more willing to reach across the aisle than they are. Right. And their folks tell them we want you to go to Washington to have principle. And we as Dem voters tell our folks we want you to go to Washington to get things done and make compromises where necessary.

[Cory Booker]

Right. But I don't want to in any way give people this impression that fighting to find common ground makes you weak on the issues that matter.

[Toure]

Right.

[Cory Booker]

I mean, when I have fought.

[Toure]

Well, as long as you're not giving.

[Cory Booker]

Up, yes, you can stand your ground and find common ground. And if I'm President of the United States, it's the same thing when I was mayor. People on my block don't have time. They don't care at the end of the day about my partisan battles. They need progress. That criminal justice bill. They don't care if I had to have a friendship with Lindsey Graham to get it done or not. They just want to see people liberated from prison who don't belong there.

[Toure]

Right.

[Cory Booker]

And so as President of the United States, I will never let the perfect be the enemy of the good, because people really need good. I won't hijack progress for some purity. And this is where I don't understand. Sometimes in my party, people take shots at folks that are actually trying to make the sausage because they know that, hey, we may not be able to get Medicare for all in that first Congress, but if I can create a public option and lower prescription drug costs, there are going to be millions of Americans benefited from that. And so I'm a warrior. And the best way I've been a warrior in my. The way I got things down in Newark is by changing the game, like changing the field itself, like expanding empathy and moral imagination, getting bigger coalitions. But at the end of the day, as President of the United States, every single day, my obligation is to make lives better for more people. And if that means I have to sit down and strike a deal with Mitch McConnell, I'm going to sit down and strike the deal. And what I found to your point is, I go to Bible study, which is in a Republican's very big Powerful Republicans hideaway. And I pray and study Bible with Republicans and more Republicans, as you can imagine, are there than Democrats. But that has created an environment where I have a relationship that I can reach out. One of my first big amendments on a bill was done, and that's Washington speak. It was actually about homeless and foster kids that I was trying to get something done on. Get something on an education bill. And they were. They had shut that bill down. They were not going to let any amendments on. That was the manager of that bill was intent not to let anything on. But I had a relationship with this powerful Republican who I prayed with in his office. And so has humanity. In fact, I noticed there was a black girl framed a picture on his shelf and his family has been involved in adoptions. And so I knew I could go up to him and say, I got an amendment to deal with foster kids and homeless kids and I know your heart. We may disagree on so much, but he ended up co sponsoring this amendment with me and I became part of the law. So I feel like I'm Hannibal sometimes where I'm gonna either find a way or make a way. And I don't think that I am gonna relent to this idea in the country that we are destined to be more tribalistic. Us versus them politics, zero sum game politics. That's just not how we get things done.

[Toure]

But Mitch McConnell has created a Senate that is unlike any we have had in American history. And he is a singular problem with the current Congress.

[Cory Booker]

Yes. And if he had his way, I imagine that criminal justice bill that we got done would have never got to the Senate floor. Absolutely. He had to be persuaded. But he was. And I know the nature of the man and I've watched him closely now for years. If I am president of the United States, we will get things to this and he's still there. We will get things done that people say they don't think you can get done. And if you don't think, that's just bluster. It's how I got things done in Newark. People said they couldn't get done. It's how I've gotten bills done in the Senate that people told me we couldn't get done because Obama struggled with that. Obama mightily. And by the way, just because something hasn't worked in the past, I used to hear that all the time in city Hall. We can't do this. We've tried this before.

[Toure]

You are filled with hope. It is amazing.

[Cory Booker]

I am a prisoner of hope and hope, as I learned from folk In Newark, woman on the fifth floor of the projects whose son was murdered. And she was still one of the most hopeful people I ever met. She taught me that hope is the act of conviction, that despair will not have the last word. You can't beat somebody who does not give up. You and I are sitting here because a whole bunch of people went through the most wretched circumstances imaginable, Heartache and pain that you and I will never know. But they never, ever gave up. And so when people tell me Obama tried this, it couldn't get done, I'm like, yeah, well, Obama is a different brother than I am. No, but he tried things. He laid a lot of foundation. But I'm not Obama. And I'm willing to fight in ways that if Trump is not going to abide by the norms of Congress, I'm not gonna abide by the norms of Washington, D.C. and Congress to get things done. And by the way.

[Toure]

Wait, what would you do? What do you mean?

[Cory Booker]

Well, look, we now know that the way Trump is using his social media platforms, saying things that people don't expect to be said has changed the norms of Washington. And so, as a guy who changed the expectations of my city by taking on Conan O'Brien, using Twitter, using social media, and got my city disregarded, disrespected, just plain dissed. Dissed by Conan. Suddenly, the national conversation. I know a little bit about creative ways of which to change the national conversation. And our party has made terrible mistakes by not thinking that we can win in all 50 states. Let me just give you an example. You and I both have our smartphones here. I love social science. As a guy who has a master's degree in sociology and, you know, one of the most persuasive things that will make you vote. And I'm not gonna ask you what your voter record. You don't have to put it out there, but if you knew your friends and family were gonna know if you voted in your last school board election.

[Toure]

Yep.

[Cory Booker]

And like, literally, your mom would know that you did not vote in the last school board election.

[Toure]

That's shame.

[Cory Booker]

Shame is a powerful motivator. Now let me go to black church. My minister, Dr. David Jefferson. Pastor Jefferson, I prayed today, multiple times. I just want him to know that. That he's counseled me in the power of prayer. Hallelujah. Can I get an amen?

[Toure]

Amen.

[Cory Booker]

All right. All right. And you know, Pastor Jefferson is a hard working guy when it comes to knowing the obligation, the moral obligation to participate in this democracy. He doesn't tell you to vote for, but he sold some polls bus, whatever. What if I could tell you and we could do this. The databases of voter records is public information. What if every minister, like my pastor, had a phone app with all the lists of people on his church and their voting record and every vote, and he could literally send you a text message that said, you did not vote in the last school board election.

[Toure]

Or look at you during the sermon.

[Cory Booker]

Yes.

[Toure]

And say, sister Betty, what happened last Tuesday? You didn't make it. What's the problem?

[Cory Booker]

Right. Or say, I want these 150 people to stand up right now. I love you, but when you don't vote, you cause some problems in this community. I'm not telling you who to vote. So we have tools and technologies to move people to vote that my party is just not using. And if we use them, I'm going to tell you what. Texas would be a Blue State. That's two more senators vote against Mitch McConnell.

[Toure]

Wow, that's saying a lot. We've been dreaming of Texas for 10, 15 years.

[Cory Booker]

But I'm not just bolstering. I'm saying, look at the demographics of the population of Texas. It is a blue state. Look at the demographics of Georgia. It is a blue state. Why do you think in those states they're going to such lengths right now to deny and suppress the vote to minorities? Because they know the trend is coming. They are afraid.

[Toure]

But we as Dems are also expecting Latino and Latina brothers and sisters to vote Democratic the way black people. And they are not, for whatever reason, multiple reasons. They are not just part of the Democratic Party the way black people are.

[Cory Booker]

African Americans are the most loyal base to the Democratic Party, but Latinos are overwhelmingly so. Just because 25% or Bush, I think he got somewhere like 40%. But it doesn't mean that they're not up for grabs. And we have a better advantage of getting there, especially at a party right now that's so willing to traffic in Overt Racing. Racism. 2012, they did a report in the Republican Party, sort of the autopsy. The autopsy, the famous autopsy. And they concluded unequivocally that we gotta stop the racism and start trying to reach out. Trump said, nah, no, we're going the other way, going the absolute triple down. And so what he did by that is in many ways surrender large portions of minority groups. And I hear it everywhere. I hear it from Bangladeshi, I hear it from, you can name me the ethnic group right now. They feel some kind of way about a president who's Coming after them, their culture, their heritage, calling their origin countries shithole countries. And so I'm basically saying we have the technology. I sound like I'm now at the beginning of $6 million, man. Which if you know we can build it, we can build it. Knowing that, I just cut off all your millennials in the office who may not know a dollar. But the reality is, I think we made a mistake in 2008 where we had massive momentum, massive energy, and we didn't directly channel that into building a 50 state effort to engage people. Not in one person, Obama for America or organizer, but to engage people in unabashedly, unapologetically building the Democratic Party, which lost its mojo already. And I'm willing to say that with factory workers, union workers, you know, mine, I could go through the people that we stopped, giving them a vision for who we are. Farmers should be with us. And so what I'm saying is, if I end up being the president before I'm the President of the United States, I'll be elected in November and I will be the de facto leader of the Democratic Party. I'm going to bring a 21st century party using new technologies, new creativity, new determination to make sure that we begin to win the kind of majorities we need that Mitch McConnell never sees that majority seat again. Because if we don't have a long term strategy, like they had a long term strategy after Roe v. Wade. Oh, yeah, I saw it in my law school. Oh, yeah. Outside funders funding the Federalist Society. I mean, they built that strategy. That gets us to the point right now where Alabama and other states are trying to take away women's rights and saying, yeah, we want to go. We're writing this bill. So we do go to the Supreme Court because we know we got it.

[Toure]

Yep.

[Cory Booker]

If we don't have the same long term strategy with a leader of the party who understands that it's not about one election. Oh, we got Obama elected. Yay. Now we can all go back to not doing things. I tell people this openly. You elect me to be your president, Democrat or Republican, I'm going to warn you right now, I'm going to ask more from you than any president of your lifetime has asked. I'm not asking you to pay more taxes. I'm not asking you to put up with stuff. But this country moves forward when people take their own, their citizenship seriously.

[Toure]

You mean like a Peace Corps sort of thing?

[Cory Booker]

Oh, I believe in service programs like Peace Corps or AmeriCorps, but I'm just talking about like, what are you doing in your neighborhood to make America better? I'm not asking you to storm beaches in Normandy. I'm not asking you to do freedom rides knowing you're going to get beaten. But we as Americans, this is not a free ride and we are under global competition right now and we can.

[Toure]

Shovel our neighbors yard and these sorts.

[Cory Booker]

Of things to that level of kindness. Because I have people that are saying, oh, the world is so mean, somebody should change. Hell, if you want more kindness, you start being more kind, want more hope. You be an agent of hope. This episode is brought to you by Selectquote. Life insurance can have a huge impact on our family's future with Selectquote Getting.

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[Toure]

One thing that's been leveled at me throughout my life, oh, you're a white guy. You're like a white black guy. And Tucker Carlson said that about you the other day, that you're like the whitest black guy in the race or in America or something. I don't know. And I wouldn't ask you this if I had not dealt with this in my own life. But how do you process that? What do you think about that when people say that? Like, oh, he seems kind of whitish, which I understand that's ridiculous. But it's a thing that I have heard that you. I'm sure that was not the first time you heard that.

[Cory Booker]

No, I would have given it some attention maybe when I was 17 or 18. And many of us were trying to figure out like identity issues.

[Toure]

Who am I?

[Cory Booker]

Who am I? Yeah, and you're struggling like, you know, what is blackness? I mean, literally I would sit around at ujima, which was our black door, and have conversations. Is it the music you listen to? I mean, Arthur Ashe was considered like playing this white sport. Who does he think he is? So I, I got to a point when I was coming of age as a young 20 something person who was being pulled over by the police, surrounded by cops, guns drawn, screaming at me that I was black. Because of a struggle, I luxuriate in black culture, black music. But for me it was a deeper portal to understand the urgency of injustice. And I became very fiercely clear about what defines my culture. To me, which is being a part of a struggle for. And if I was going to be about it, I needed to be in it. And so you're talking to the only United States senator that lives in a black community, not just any black community, lives in an inner city, low income, 2010 census, my median income was $14,000 per household. Who has built his entire adult life in service of communities like black and brown. Communities that are left out, left behind, looked down upon and struggling with justice. So nothing Tucker Carlson could say, I mean, it's almost comical to me, could make me even second guess the truth of who I am and how I am honoring my ancestors, both black and white, who fought, who did outrageous things in the cause of justice, which. That's what, to me, what this is all about. And so, look, there are a lot of folks that. I mean, the hilarious thing, I have a black campaign manager who I think for a major campaign, is the first ever black male campaign manager. Very diverse office. But he laughed at me because I spoke in California. And when somebody said to him, he goes, I didn't know Cory Book was black because I've got like 50. I started this campaign with like 50% name recognition. And then there are people surprised that I have two black parents. I have two black parents who went to HBCUs. My mom is a Delta. I mean, so a lot of these things I'm introducing myself, and folks don't know. Folks don't know where I live, where I've done. And so things that you've said, you've heard about me since before I was mayor. This is my time to let folks know where I am. And my faith is important. My race and ethnicity is important. The same way JFK's race and ethnicity and Catholicism was important to him. These are all threads that make me very American, frankly, as we all are Americans coming from different threads. But who I am is very much shaped by those strong cultural cords that make me up who I am, make up my identity. And by the way, that's part of the larger fabric. But more importantly, what I hope people find out about me is from my faith to my race to my geography, where I've grown up and where I live in Newark, all of these things have motivated me to run for president, to try to help this country live up to who we say we are. When we put our hand on our heart and swear an oath to our civic gospel that this is a nation of liberty and justice for all. This is my portal to be a warrior for that kind of justice and why I'm going to hopefully be in the arena for a all out slugfest with Donald Trump and plan on knocking him out of the ring. Metaphorically.

[Toure]

Metaphorically.

[Cory Booker]

Metaphorically.

[Toure]

Figuratively. Figuratively.

[Cory Booker]

Figuratively. And so I hope people get to know that. And Tucker Carlson, I love when people attack you because it says more about them than it does about you.

[Toure]

Absolutely.

[Cory Booker]

And it also shows they show their hand a little bit about what they figure is your strength because the Republican Party has a great way of trying to turn people's strengths into weakness. Thus the swiftboating of one of our former nominees who there's no way you could say that this guy wasn't a war hero, but somehow they perverted the waters. So it's interesting to see me how they are attacking me now. Like Donald Trump and some of his rallies. He's driven Norcken to the ground.

[Toure]

One of the things that we have seen in this race so far is Kamala Harris rising up in the polls after a very righteous attack on Joe Biden. And that was not an underhanded political attack. That was something that I might have said to him personally if I had been in that moment with him. Like, Joey, you know, you really hurt my feelings saying that, what you said. But we see, you know, at this stage of the campaign, we're in the first quarter still, but you know, we're grasping for air here. That sort of rhetorical punch in the face in a debate can really launch you up. And I look at you, you're like, he's such a nice guy. He's not gonna do that. Can you do that? Are you willing to do that in the right way to propel the campaign?

[Cory Booker]

Well, I remind you that before Kamala Harris did that in front of 20 million Americans, you remember in the two weeks before that, Joe Biden was saying publicly, Cory Booker should apologize.

[Toure]

Yes, you. Yes, yes.

[Cory Booker]

Because I stood up and said what you said was wrong and broke it down quite, quite pointedly for what he did.

[Toure]

But saying it on the debate stage becomes much more of a galvanizing moment.

[Cory Booker]

Absolutely. And I was pulled a draw where I didn't have Donald Trump next to me. Joe Biden, that was a bad mistake. And so look, there is a documentary, Oscar nominated documentary about me called Street Fight Lost the March of the Penguins. By the way, don't go up against a documentary that has Morgan Freeman narrating penguins. Look at the penguins. So anybody who knows me knows, and this is why I'm hoping America will know and hope your listeners will go watch the documentary on Netflix. I came up through politics, which was just brass knuckles fighting. You don't win in Newark, in Brick City, unless you know how to stand in the ring and. And figuratively throw some punches. And by the way, take some punches, too. Sure as Mike Tyson says, everybody's got a plan till I punch him in the face.

[Toure]

Punch him in the face.

[Cory Booker]

So don't mistake niceness for not being tough. Hard nosed, hard charging, hard fighting. I'm a damn former tight end for Stanford University. I know how to buckle my chinstrap and go out there and hit folk. And the reality is there's people who take a second to wake, oh, wait a minute. This was a guy during the Kavanaugh hearing that was going toe to toe with Cornyn. This was a guy that stood up to Jeff Sessions.

[Toure]

Jeff Sessions. That was tough.

[Cory Booker]

Yeah. And broke with a century plus of Senate tradition. So anybody who knows me, and this is, I think it was shots, Senator Schatz from Hawaii who said something like, I now know Cory Booker, and he's not taking sides. He doesn't endorse anybody. But anybody who thinks this guy who does believe in kindness and decency and civility, cannot throw a punch and be as tough as hell, doesn't understand Cory Booker.

[Toure]

So is that what we might expect from you in the next debate?

[Cory Booker]

I think, first of all, in the debate I was in, understand that we came out of that debate with our best fundraising days because people are like, in fact, we were the number one Google person on that stage. People were like, oh, wait a minute. Who is that guy who just broke it down on gun violence and said, basically, come to my neighborhood where there are shootings all the time. And let me tell you why I have a bolder plan than the other people on the stage. So from my elections in Newark, which people now can see in movies, all the way up to my fighting to be the first black, fourth black person ever elected into the United States Senate in a popular elections. I'm a fighter, and you will see that coming out in this election. But I will tell you this. You know, as I'm running for the stage in Iowa, one of my favorite moments in the campaign so far, big dude sees me, Big dude puts his arm around me, thinks he's gonna have a bro moment and says, dude, I want you to punch Donald Trump in the face. And my response to them is, dude, that's a felony. Is to understand that Donald Trump wants us to fight him on his turf, on his terms, using his tactics. Some of the Strongest people I know stood up to Bull Connor and beat him not by bringing bigger dogs and bigger fire hoses, but by scratching their normal record. And these artists of activism called to the moral imagination of a country and energized more people to come out and get involved in change. This election really needs also not somebody who's going to try to out Trump Trump. I think that's how he wins.

[Toure]

Right.

[Cory Booker]

I think this election somebody scratched the record and called to this country show the absurdity of those tactics and can call to this nation to get more people engaged and more people involved. Remember, Hillary would be president right now. She would at least won Michigan and Wisconsin if black people had been more had come to the polls at higher rates. I'm not putting it all on black people. A whole bunch of other people that should have come out too, but just exciting. The African American vote would have won us those states.

[Toure]

So the path to. If you are fortunate enough to get the nomination.

[Cory Booker]

Yeah.

[Toure]

The strategy to beating Trump is what?

[Cory Booker]

Number one, knowing how to throw punches that land on a guy who.

[Toure]

But not getting in his game.

[Cory Booker]

If you try to play him on his turf and his terms, that is a recipe for losing. And those people who preach fight fire with fire. I have run a fire department as a former mayor. It's not a good strategy. And so, again, I know how to do this. I've actually taken on outrageous bullies before and beat them. I've taken on demagogues before and beat them. And the way you do it is by, number one, showing the absurdity of who they are, revealing them. That this emperor has no clothes and finding creative, sometimes funny, sometimes pointed ways of doing that. And then you also understand that your real strength comes from the people. And we need the next leader to be the kind of aspirational leader. You can energize people, some over their cynicism, some over their despair, but get more people to the polls than has usually come from certain communities, whether that be suburban women or urban Latinos or whomever. And I'm going to be a very exciting, inspiring leader, getting people energized and engaged. And I'm going to take that guy down a number of pegs so that some of the people who left our party thinking he was the champion and now understand that he's a chump, that this is a guy who is a fraud, that this is a guy that is weak physically, mentally and morally. And I will be the person that best shows that contrast.

[Toure]

So, okay, that's how you do the general, how do you get the nomination? What is the path to getting the nomination? How do you do that?

[Cory Booker]

Well, first of all, I want to tell you that anybody who's looking at polls right now and using that as their guide of who's doing well and who's not, I remind you it's early, not just as early, that the only people that have gone on from our party to be president that at this point right now are considered long shots, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama. No, but what they did do is what we're doing. Actually, the metrics you should be looking at are things like the Des Moines Register, which is written in Iowa, that me and Elizabeth Warren by far have the best organizations on the ground. I'm in the top three in endorsements from state leaders and legislators and the like. We are building an operation that's going to win those early primary states. Before you turn to go to Nevada and South Carolina, where the demographics change. We come out of those first two primary states, 1, 2 or 3, which we will, we are going to have the kind of momentum going into the Super Tuesday.

[Toure]

I mean, South Carolina seems to be more to your favor. Iowa and New Hampshire a little bit harder.

[Cory Booker]

Well, first of all, as a guy whose family's from Iowa, my grandmother born and raised in Des Moines, where a lot of folks don't realize big, significant black community up there more than I think people know.

[Toure]

I did not know.

[Cory Booker]

Yes, there is. And by the way, narrow margins, a lot of these communities are going to have an outsized impact when you have that many people running. But I actually just say that more to say that we are doing what past Iowa primary winners are doing, and we're doing it well, which is organize, organize, organize. And in Iowa, it is all about those connections. John Kerry was polling at 4% right before the Iowa, about a month before Iowa, and ended up winning the state because he made those connections, he had those relationships, he built that organization. And so if we now know that the polling metrics this far out don't mean anything, but the organizations do, then you are automatically going to see me as one of the top two or three people in this race.

[Toure]

Okay. I feel like the way that we conduct this whole presidential campaign is not a good test. No, the things that we ask of you guys in terms of, you know, debate question, 30 seconds. Tell us your whole life philosophy. Like 30 seconds. Just all the whole, the gotcha game, the oppo research and the. It is just a terrible way to choose a president. Are you seeing, do you feel that way when you're inside the system.

[Cory Booker]

Well, I will agree with you on the baits, which are more not a test of like health care policy one minute go. But they are a test to see how you can, how nimble you are, how well you can throw a punch, take a punch. And by the way, I think people are evaluating you on that stage to how you're gonna deal with when you're on a one on one stage with Donald Trump. And so I think that you do glean things from that. So I don't wanna pooh pooh all.

[Toure]

But when you're president, you're never gonna be in a debate until four years later, right?

[Cory Booker]

Well, that's the point I think is better is what is going to prepare you for the job. And so I used to think this was, I used to have a lot of the same criticism. But now that I'm through this, this is actually a real endurance test where people, especially in early primary states, get to feel you. Not just see you, not just hear you, but they get to feel you. And I think there's something about a grueling long process where you and people remember we're 197 days, I think out from Iowa, there's gonna be a long process for which people to see you in all different kinds of circumstances.

[Toure]

But even that, does it make sense for a nation of 50 states to always let Iowa be first? And nothing against Iowa in particular. But if New York was always first, the nature of the campaign would be entirely different. Perhaps different people would get elected. Or if Florida was always first, that would be an interesting idea. Why is it that one particular state should always be first?

[Cory Booker]

Well, by the way, the fact that they are small states is better. I mean, as a guy who is in a state with like, you know, 9, 10 million people in Iowa, because.

[Toure]

You can meet everybody almost and people.

[Cory Booker]

Actually have a real, can actually have a relationship with you. You know what it would be if California and New York were first? Fundraising, tv, all the kind of things. Here you have people with more money that lose all the time because voters get a chance to touch you, feel you, hear you, have you in their living room, meet you at the diner. So there's something to me, that's how I came up in politics. We beat a machine in Newark by out organizing them, by having real connections in communities. So folks knew who I was. These first two primary states are about the size of my city. I got really excited when somebody broke down to me what it takes to win those first two primary states because I'm like, wait a minute, I'm a retail guy. This is how I came up. I can do this. So I understand this frustration in terms of maybe those first two states don't have the diversity of the rest of America. But remember, Iowa chose the first black president of the United States. They did. And it wasn't until he won Iowa that he started winning in the polls in South Carolina.

[Toure]

I just wonder, maybe, what if we moved it around? What if South Carolina got to be first sometimes? What if? I mean, like, the small state argument is valuable.

[Cory Booker]

Yes.

[Toure]

But there's many small states.

[Cory Booker]

Mississippi. Yeah.

[Toure]

What if. Yeah, well, I don't want Mississippi to be first.

[Cory Booker]

What?

[Toure]

But I mean, you know, why not move it around some?

[Cory Booker]

And so I'm not going to argue against an equity argument at all. I'm simply going to say that those two states have a culture that's been built up over decades, that they really. There's some serious folks who take their responsibility. They actually know they do. They take it very seriously. If you shifted it to Brooklyn, people would be like, I don't know.

[Toure]

I've been to Iowa and I've said, why should you be first? And they say that, like, we're small and we really care.

[Cory Booker]

Yes.

[Toure]

And because we really come out to be part of the process, they take the responsibility of being first very seriously.

[Cory Booker]

Yeah.

[Toure]

You talk about being a retail guy. You talk about winning over somebody who was predisposed to dislike you. How do you win over a specific individual, especially somebody who may not be used to talking to a tall black guy, and they might have a little like, how do you win the. Is it how you talk to them? How you touch them, how you.

[Cory Booker]

Well, first of all, listen. And this is hard. Stop feeling like you're trying to win them over for me. Look, this is what I want from this primary. I want people just to know who I am. I want them to know the full, authentic spirit that I have. And if that's not what the Democratic primary electorate wants, I will end this knowing that I gave my the fullness and the truth of who I am. And I'm happy to support. In fact, we all should commit to supporting whoever the nominee is. Now, I happen to think that my view of this whole election is the best view and my experience unifying people for common cause, creating new connections, coalitions that being a chief executive of the state's largest city, being somebody in the Senate who can get things done, I feel like I can make a case. But if you. I'm not going to tell you what you want to hear, which I think is one of the worst things that politicians do, and I know a lot of people do that. They wait till they see what the poll says that people want and then they shape their conversations with that. I've told my team already, I'm going to run on this idea that we need things like grace and civility and we need to beat darkness with light. And by the way, people want to beat darkness with darkness. I'm happy 2020 elections stand for, not the year for the number of people running. You got 2,020 people to choose from if you want somebody that's gonna fight in that way. So for me, it's not trying to win people over. My goal is for people just to know the truth of who I am and argue sometimes. Like, if you tell me that you don't think we should put a price on carbon, I'm like, well, we ain't gonna solve the climate change problem. Let me discuss this with you. And if you still don't agree with me, that's fine, but I'm not gonna tell you what you want to hear.

[Toure]

I feel that from you. I feel like he believes what he's saying and I can trust him. That's something that, you know, I was a Hillary guy last time, but when I really plugged into Bernie, I was like, I believe everything that he says and I believe he believes it. Right. And I believe that about Barack and I see that about you, that he believes what he's saying. He's not just saying the thing that was poll tested that he was supposed, supposed to say.

[Cory Booker]

Right. And that what I want for my politicians is that authenticity. That's why I think John McCain did so well in his first campaign and then did very badly in his second. So I just think that this is the most liberating campaign I've had since I ran in 1998. 1998, I was running for city council person. People didn't give me a shot in hell. And I would just go to folks doors and have some of the greatest conversations of my life and funny conversations sometimes, you know, and you know, you learn to talk to folk. And I still remember I'm in this tough area of my community where I live now, and I'm knocking on doors, woman opens the door, just starts yelling at me, what the fuck do you want? This, this, this. And I wanted to tell her what I wanted. So right away I said, you know what I want? I want us to deal with a problem that right here in Your community. And I start yelling back at her, and before you know it, we're yelling, laughing, having a good time. So that was just me matching her sense of outrage with my sense of outrage. And I love that we knocked on thousands and thousands of doors in 1998 and laughing and telling truths and having hard conversations, painful conversations. And now I'm running for president. I'm doing the same thing. I'm running out there and letting people know. What gets me animated. When I ran for, I said one of my proudest moments is when my campaign team told me, you're not a mayor anymore, Corey. You're running for the whole state. This is a suburban state. Don't stop talking about criminal justice reform everywhere you go. And I'm like, that's one of the reasons I'm running for president, because I think we have a broken, morally bankrupt system that's corrupting our whole state, costing us billions of dollars, not to mention the untold cost of incarcerating people for doing things that the President of the United States admitted to doing. And you know what? People appreciated that I would stand in wealthy suburbs and. And talk about the moral bankruptcy of a criminal justice system and applauded that. And by the way, it was telling the truth, because it's what I spent a lot of time working on. So I just think that our politics is suffering from too much inauthenticity, and we as a party are getting weak. Because I still remember these conversations, like, oh, what are we gonna do about the person that's left, the Democratic Party that did this? No, let's just start talking about what our values are as a party. Like, get back to the core values of this party. Not about how we're gonna chase down some voter and pick a leader that can authentically talk from those values. And I promise you, you're gonna build the coalitions you need to win.

[Toure]

In July 2010, you're at a dinner with Mark Zuckerberg. A couple months later, he gives $100 million to the Newark school system, which he had no relationship to. What did you say to Mark Zuckerberg to lead to this happening?

[Cory Booker]

Pass the ketchup. No, look, I mean, what's happened to public education in America is. And it's been going on for years in cities like mine, you know, which are walled. I mean, literally, laws were created to create poor minority communities. There are cities around Newark that have private investigators that follow black children around, see where they go home. And, in fact, there was a reporter for the Wall Street Journal, education reporter for the Wall Street Journal, that was one of those people that used a fake address in a surrounding suburb of Newark, got caught, was forced to sign a confession before she called her parents. I mean, just these kind of absurd things that go on. So I had the chance to talk to Market about something I was passionate about. And he and I agreed that maybe we could do something real good. And here we are ten plus years later and now Newark, New Jersey is the number one school system in America for beat the odd high poverty to high performance. Our graduation rate since then has gone up over 30%. If you're a black kid in Newark, which is the majority of our kids, your chance of now going to a high performing school that beats the suburbs went up almost 400%. So it was one of those moments where I put a vision out, we had a conversation, we went to work and it's now the results are in. As Harvard's did a recent study about our success and Newark, we haven't solved all our problems, but one of the reasons why Newark's population is growing for the first time in 60 years is because people are moving back in for the schools.

[Toure]

We started talking about the kindness, the shoveling people's driveways and the hunger strike and the rescuing somebody from a fire. What is the presidential equivalent of that? If you are fortunate enough to be elected? What sort of thing like that could you see yourself doing to, you know, get your hands dirty with the actual constituents sort of thing? What would you do?

[Cory Booker]

Look, you and I are from, we are the innovators of hip hop. Well, that's the generation we're in and where creativity, where freestyling, where those things were used and I used them when I was mayor, that creativity to find ways to challenge people's imagination, not just what a mayor is, but of who they are and who we could be together. And so you can be. One thing is sure that if I'm in the White House, the norms, they call it the gilded cage of people being in the White House all the time. And I'm going to flip that upside down and be showing up in places all around this country in order to make points often. But I am looking forward to reinventing and reimagining what the 21st century presidency has to be, especially taking over for a guy that was engaging in such moral vandalism that the next president has to be really creative in their healing. And they're making people realize that you may be a farmer, I may be in a factory town, I may be in a city but we have common cause in America. If I can have eight years where I can regain those ideals of our country and revive that, as I called it, the more courageous empathy and that grace, we're going to be able to do things at a time that humanity needs us to do them.

[Toure]

That healing that you talk about, though, is incredibly important because we are as violently divided as we have ever been, with the exception of times when we're at actual civil war. I mean, we're sort of at a civil cold war right now in this country. The first thing the next president is going to have to do is to find a way to bring us back together.

[Cory Booker]

Not the first thing, the consistent thing. Yeah, because.

[Toure]

But how do you do that?

[Cory Booker]

Well, I just want to tell you how.

[Toure]

Especially when half of the country says media is lying to us, we cannot believe anything they say. So then anything that President Booker says comes through a cnn, msnbc, fake news. We don't have to believe that.

[Cory Booker]

How do we bring it together? But those shows, their profit model, they're complicit in their profit model is to make us hate each other. Van Jones was telling me about this story when he and Newt Gingrich had Crossfire. And they too, decided that they were going to do the last segment calling it Ceasefire. And the network stopped them because ratings went down during Ceasefire, because that's not as exciting as two people yelling at each other. So we have algorithms that if we get on YouTube, they're going to bring us more and more towards the extreme again of hating each other. I can go through all of. And, of course, our enemies, but how do we.

[Toure]

It is rich. The irony of Newt Gingrich being part of some Kumbaya ceasefire. He is one of the architects of the current political environment that we have that is so angry and at each other's throat. But how do you do it? And it's not a day one thing, it's a day 3000 thing. How do you do it?

[Cory Booker]

But I've already told you that this is a. Every day. If you are not using your creativity, your moral imagination, if you're not willing to break norms to make this a purpose, then you are going to have a presidency where you do not get big things done. And so one of the. I mean, my book literally is entitled United. This is years before I was running. One of the purposes that I am in this race is that I have confidence that I am the best qualified to be a healer, to be someone who revives that civic grace. And if you're supporting me Know that that's why I'm getting into it. I'm going to fight like you're going to see a person that is going to take Trump out, but then at the same time do it in a way that doesn't triangulate or pit us against each other. Do this in a way that we can create those new American majorities. And I'm not going to say everything because trust me, I sit and think about this all the time, about how savage the divides are getting in our country. And I think about this because I noticed this when I played football in high school, that if I was driving on a team, on offense and I heard that opposing huddle arguing amongst themselves, taking each, I would say to my team, we're score a touchdown.

[Toure]

Yeah.

[Cory Booker]

And so we are in a global competition right now, which folk don't get that there is really two main fights going on on the planet. One main fight between two groups, democracies and authoritarian governments. And by the way, look where Turkey's going, look where Hungary's going. It's getting tough. The competition's getting fierce out there. I was flying with Jeff Flake, Republican senator from Arizona, at that time, going to Zimbabwe to talk to Emengagua, who was the leader that took over after the coup. I put that in quotes. But they got rid of Mugabe to tell him that he needs to have free and fair elections. A bipartisan delegation of senators communicate this message. Emengagua, Emerson, Mngagwa is flying in from China. Guess what China told them, we don't care what you do with your elections. We got you. We want to be. We just want your extractive minerals. And so we have a real contest, remember in China, massive human rights violations, massive oppressions of their people. Look what they're trying to do in Hong Kong. Look what they're trying to do. I go through the groups that they're oppressing in their own country. And so where is humanity going and where is America going to be? We have a president right now that seems to think that we can pull away from all the other democracy. In fact, he's got better relationships with Putin and Duterte than he does with Merkel, May or Macron. And so we, I see us having an obligation to show that we, number one, can get our own act together, that the enemy that we need to deal with is the divisions that we have. Because as much as we might want to say that so and so is evil, the reality is, hey, China just built 18,000 miles of high speed rail the busiest rail quarter in America is the Northeast quarter. That goes through New York and New Jersey. I'm not joking. It runs half an hour slower than it did in the 1960s. Other countries, we used to be the best educators on the planet Earth. We're no longer K through 12. We don't even have the highest percentage of people graduating from college in our country like we used to. But guess what? Other countries believe in something really radical that we don't. Science that. They saw that the brain develops most between the second, third trimester, the third or fourth year. So I think something like 80% of brain development. And so you know what? They have something really radical. Universal prenatal care. We don't. We lead developed nations in infant mortality, maternal mortality. They have universal preschool. I can show you the data that shows dollars invested in preschool produce multiples in return for our nation. In terms of the productivity of that child. They have paid family leave. Afghanistan and the Congo have paid family leave. We don't nothing I said there. From infrastructure to education. These aren't partisan issues. Now I think the Republicans have a terribly wrong view. But remember Eisenhower did the biggest infrastructure bill we've seen. A trillion dollars in today's day and age. We must get back into the competition on the globe and win. China's top 10% of their high school graduates. If I have my numbers right, their elite of the elite total more in number than all of our high school kids. Other countries now we used to have the most R and D intensive economy meaning the percentage of our kids GDP that we invest in innovation and research. We're celebrating going to the moon. Well, that helped with satellite navigation. All the things that we are enjoying creating the industries, the jobs where we dominate the planet. We're now being out invested in the future technologies because we can't even agree on doubling down on investments in the nih. We need a leader in this country urgently now that can get us to heal, to recognize our common cause that can put a little more indivisible into this one nation under God and inspire us again to see that common cause. Because we are losing ground, you and I. As great as I think our generation is, we could be the first generation to do worse than our parents. Economically, 95% of baby boomers did better than their parents. For millennials, it's a toy cost. Life expectancy is going down. We now have deaths of despair, from suicides to opioid addiction. My father said something that that haunts me and motivates me every day before he Died. It was a shooting in my neighborhood. I was living in the projects in Newark. And he says to me, son, I worry that a kid born just like me. My dad was born in Jim Crow, North Carolina, to a single mom, poor. He would get in my face and say, don't tell people I was poor. Tell them the truth. I was just po po couldn't afford the other two letters. My dad was poor, black, single mom, segregated community. He says to me hauntingly, I worry, Corey, that a kid born just like me today. Majority of my kids in Newark are born poor. To a single mom, segregated community. I told you the laws. De facto segregation. He goes, I worry that they'd have a better chance of making if they were born in 1936 when I was born, than being born today. And I'm a data guy, and some of the data my dad's wrong, but some of the data, mass incarceration, murder. I mean, we See Lead poisoning 3000 jurisdictions in America where the children have more than twice the blood lead levels in Flint, Michigan.

[Toure]

I always think about when, you know, they say America's the greatest country in the world. Well, maybe it is, but is America the greatest country it could be? It is not.

[Cory Booker]

No. And so where are we going? Will we go further into whoever the president is next president? Will we go further into tribalism? Or will that next president see as their solemn obligation to resurrect that ideal of sacred honor, pledging to each other our lives? Will that next president be a creative artist of activism willing to shun norms and make their purpose not just getting big legislation passed, but doing what is a precondition to getting big legislation passed, which is helping more people understand that we have to come together in common cause in order to do that in the first place. The corporations, the media, I can go through the people that are invested in tearing us apart. The soul of our nation right now is at stake, and we need to resurrect that spirit and save this country from slipping into mediocrity or slipping into what's even worse to tearing itself apart.

[Toure]

Thanks to the senator for a great interview and thanks to you for listening. Torre's show gives you fuel to power your dreams, because you can use your dreams like a rocket ship to blast you into a life you never imagined. You can make your dreams a reality. And this show can help. I'm on Twitter ore and on Instagram. Please leave a review on itunes. It helps. And tell your friends about the show. Toure show is written by me, Torre, and produced by Jackie Garofano. Our editor is Brandon Tago, and our photographers are Chuck Marcus and Shanta Covington. We're distributed by DCP Entertainment, and we will be back next Wednesday with another amazing person because the man can't shut us down.