David Alan Grier - I'm Still Here

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Toure Show – Episode Featuring David Alan Grier: "I'm Still Here"

Introduction and Career Reflections

In the February 23, 2025 episode of The Toure Show, host Torre engages in a heartfelt and insightful conversation with renowned comedian and actor David Alan Grier. Grier reflects on his illustrious career, sharing anecdotes from his early days, pivotal moments in his professional journey, and his enduring passion for the craft of comedy and acting.

Early Career and Breakthroughs

David Alan Grier opens up about his unexpected longevity in the entertainment industry. At [02:33], he shares, "I thought I'd be retired, man," expressing his surprise and gratitude for continued opportunities. Grier discusses his early successes, including his breakout role on "In Living Color" in the 1980s, a platform that significantly shaped his career.

In Living Color: A Groundbreaking Experience

A significant portion of the discussion centers around "In Living Color," where Grier recounts the dynamics of the cast and the creative environment. At [04:47], he reminisces about replacing Larry Riley in the play "Soldier’s Play," highlighting the rare occurrence of cast members from the stage production transitioning to the movie adaptation. Grier emphasizes the camaraderie and mutual support within the cast, particularly his relationship with future stars like Samuel L. Jackson and Denzel Washington.

Memorable Sketches and Characters

Grier delves into some of his favorite sketches from "In Living Color," notably the "Men on Film" segment. At [35:15], he describes the collaborative process behind creating iconic characters, such as the duo's witty critiques of mainstream films from a gay perspective. Grier highlights the cultural impact of these sketches, noting how they resonated differently across generations and communities.

Influences and Inspirations

The discussion shifts to Grier’s comedic influences, where he pays homage to legends like Richard Pryor and George Carlin. At [44:07], Grier explains, "The subversive nature of comedy... taking everyday occurrences and turning them around to make people laugh." He underscores the importance of comedy as a medium for truth-telling and societal reflection.

Current Projects: "St. Denis Medical"

Transitioning to his present work, Grier talks extensively about his role in the NBC sitcom "St. Denis Medical." At [15:14], he explains how he sought out roles that align with his personal and professional aspirations, emphasizing the show's unique blend of humor and serious storytelling. Grier describes the show as a "serio comedy," where moments of genuine emotion and humor coexist naturally [26:44].

Industry Perspectives and Challenges

Grier offers candid insights into the current state of the entertainment industry, discussing the impacts of COVID-19, strikes, and the rise of streaming platforms. At [16:15], he reflects on the challenges faced by creators and actors, including budget constraints and the evolving landscape of content consumption. Grier also touches on the difficulties of expanding "In Living Color" into a movie format, citing issues like ownership rights and creative control.

Personal Insights and Future Aspirations

Towards the end of the interview, Grier shares his personal journey, including his experiences with marriage and divorce, and how these have influenced his approach to life and work. At [72:06], he states, "I don’t have time for any more bullshit shows or plays," signaling a focus on meaningful and personally fulfilling projects. Grier expresses a desire to continue acting on his own terms, aiming for roles that resonate deeply with him and his audience.

Legacy and Continuing Influence

David Alan Grier concludes by reflecting on his legacy and the enduring impact of his work. At [78:36], he recounts feedback from fans who felt seen and represented through his characters. Grier emphasizes the importance of authentic storytelling and maintaining creative integrity in an ever-changing industry.

Notable Quotes:

• David Alan Grier at [02:33]: "I thought I'd be retired, man."
• Grier on Comedy's Subversive Nature at [44:07]: "The subversive nature of comedy... taking everyday occurrences and turning them around to make people laugh."
• On Current Projects at [15:14]: "It was everything I asked for. You know, a lot of times people go, well, Tori, what do you want? We gonna make a list. But do you really think I'm gonna get all this? No, I'll probably get two, maybe three things."
• Grier at [26:44]: "There’s not a lot of badum, badum, badum."
• Personal Philosophy at [72:08]: "I put in my 10,000 hours. I'm not saying I'm the greatest actor ever in the history of the world. I know what the fuck I'm doing."

Conclusion

In "I'm Still Here," David Alan Grier provides a comprehensive look into his enduring career, the evolution of his craft, and his unwavering dedication to storytelling through comedy and drama. This episode serves as both an inspiration and a testament to Grier’s resilience and passion, offering valuable insights for listeners aspiring to carve their own paths in the world of entertainment.

Transcript

[Torre]

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[David Alan Grier]

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[Torre]

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[David Alan Grier]

That's LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn the place to be to be Victoria. Okay though. Victoria Ray show. Okay though.

[Torre]

That might be the best question I've ever been asked.

[David Alan Grier]

You's a phenomenal person. I mean, you legendary. I am a fan of you, my brother. I am at a point in my life and my career. I don't have to work as much. I can choose what I want to do. So that frees me up to do what I want, not what I need. I mean, you know, I've had two divorces, two marriages, two divorces. There's a period where I did a lot of shit that, you know, keep the lights on and we struggle through. But this is sweet shit right here. This is the sweet spot.

[Torre]

David Alan Grier is an amazing comedian, an amazing actor. He blew up on In Living color in the 80s, but now he's doing St. Denis Medical on NBC. He did three movies last year. He just got a Tony. This man has had an incredible career. He's an incredible funny man. He's got amazing stories. I'm excited to have him back on the show as my man. David Allen Grier on tour a show.

[David Alan Grier]

What a time we're having already.

[Torre]

What a time to be alive. How are you?

[David Alan Grier]

I'm good.

[Torre]

Man, you're on fire.

[David Alan Grier]

Thank you. I thought I'd be retired, man.

[Torre]

I bet. And in the last few years, you got a Tony, you did three or four movies, but serious movies yes. And now you're on an NBC sitcom. Like, you're as hot as you've ever been.

[David Alan Grier]

Yeah, hotter. Because I'm getting paid more like. My daughter goes, you should retire now. Let me tell you. She's 16. She was very young when she said this. I understand that's children's language for. So you can concentrate on me and just watch me. And I was like, they just not started paying me. But my. My daughter doesn't have any concept of money because she goes, oh, you have money? I say, I have money, but I still have to go get the money.

[Torre]

Right?

[David Alan Grier]

And she's like, you're so funny. I'm not being funny, but why are.

[Torre]

You so hot right now?

[David Alan Grier]

Don't ask. Don't. Why you question it? I feel like, as an actor, I feel like I put in my 10,000 hours. As any older person will tell you, I know myself better. I'm more confident old. Also, it took me a while to get mature black men roles, because I feel like I read younger for a long time. Cause I remember my agent. So when I was like, 50, I said, I can play a father. Like, no, they don't. Casting directors, producers. He's too young. Cause I just read that. Not that I'm, you know, I'm just telling you what the reaction was. So finally I grew into my real maturity and I called my agent. I was like, I will take every old Negro role in the books, baby. Give them to me.

[Torre]

Beautiful.

[David Alan Grier]

No, but just having a ball, man. I didn't think the industry would want me first. I just figured I'd be retired. But I'm. I'm rolling, but I'm having a ball.

[Torre]

I love the new show, St. Denis Medical.

[David Alan Grier]

So, yes, I was going to give you the wrong. So on the knee.

[Torre]

I want to talk about that. But first, Soldier's Play. A soldier story has been such an incredible part of your career. Was that your first movie?

[David Alan Grier]

It was my second movie in that year, 1983, I did streamers with Matthew Modine that Robert Altman directed, and we all won the golden lion for best actor.

[Torre]

Okay.

[David Alan Grier]

At the Venice film.

[Torre]

That's a high start.

[David Alan Grier]

Yeah, man. And then the same year, later that year, I did Soldier's Story. And the unique thing about that, it was the early 80s, but Hollywood was still about. It was rare for members of the cast of a play to then be cast in the movie. And I remember, I think it was Raymond St. Jacques came to see the play. One afternoon, he came back and he was talking to us. Raymond St. Jacques is. Was very well known black actor from a previous generation. I'm 68. So he had to be, you know, at the time, anyway, he was just nonchalantly going, well, naming actors who were going to play our roles. When it became a movie, because it had already been sold. It was developed very fast, and two years later, I was in it. And I had replaced Larry Reiller in the play. Denzel was in it. Robert Townshend came into the movie and Larry Reilly, who. Actually, I played his part on stage, but he was in it, and that was rare. It really didn't, but. And Sam Jackson, they cut out his part.

[Torre]

He's in it.

[David Alan Grier]

He wasn't in it because he was.

[Torre]

In it and he got cut out.

[David Alan Grier]

What was his part? No, no, his part on stage. He played. I forget the dude's name, but he plays the guy who reads Love Letters. Okay, maybe he was in it, but another actor was cast in the part. Anyway, I think Sam's story was like, he could be. I don't even think he was even able to read for it.

[Torre]

Okay.

[David Alan Grier]

And, you know, we were all like, poor Sam, what's gonna happen to him? But he found a way. He found a way, didn't he? Find a way, guys.

[Torre]

But then it. But even more rare is to have that same production come back into your life.

[David Alan Grier]

I gotta talk about Adolf Caesar.

[Torre]

Oh, please.

[David Alan Grier]

Adolph Caesar was in it.

[Torre]

Genius. Genius. It's not the same. It's not the same movie without him.

[David Alan Grier]

No, Adolf Caesar was everything.

[Torre]

It don't leap off the screen the same way.

[David Alan Grier]

Okay, So I was telling you, you know, I had a friend who's passed away. He was my roommate in college. Reg E. Cathay.

[Torre]

Yeah.

[David Alan Grier]

You know, we were roommates at Michigan. Yeah, at Michigan. And so he came to me and he said we'd all heard about Soldiers Play because it won the Pulitzer that year, I think, in 83. And Negro ensemble was doing a production of it. And Reggie called me, he said, hey, man, I just read for this role for Soldiers Play. He said, I can't do it because the dude plays a guitar, but you could play this role. So I hadn't even read. I hadn't seen the play. I called my agent, I said, look, send me in on this audition. So they sent me in and I read for Douglas Turner Ward. So the night before I went in.

[Torre]

Which one was that?

[David Alan Grier]

Soldier's Play.

[Torre]

Right, right, right.

[David Alan Grier]

Douglas Turner Ward founded the Negro Ensemble.

[Torre]

Right.

[David Alan Grier]

He's already one of my heroes back then. We read about him. And so the night Before I went to see the production, they gave me a ticket. You're coming in tomorrow to read, go see the play. So I go see the play and I saw Samuel Jackson, Denzel Washington, Larry Riley. I mean, this cast, which was amazing. And like, I want to get up in there, man. I'm gonna get on this bad boy. And so Douglas Turner, I read for him and I was cast immediately. And the whole point for me was to not drop the ball because we all shared. There were two dressing rooms. I was in the one with Sam and he ran the dressing room. What people don't know is Sam Jackson was always Sam Jackson. He wasn't famous yet. He really has not changed, not one bit. So he was Sam Jackson when he wasn't Sam Jackson. And for some reason there was a black and white 12 inch TV in the corner up at the ceiling. And they would watch Family Feud.

[Torre]

Okay, And Richard Dawson, all the black men.

[David Alan Grier]

Yeah, talking. What kind of answer is that, man? What the fuck, you know, I was like, yeah, it was ongoing dialogue. Sam ran the dressing room. I mean, he would rag on Adolf Caesar. Yeah, fuck you, Sam. And he'd say, sam, man, what you doing with this old Kabuki makeup, you know? Cause Adolf would do with the grease paint. He was painting himself old and shit. One of the subversive things about Soldier's Play we were talking about, it's really about interracial conflict within our race.

[Torre]

Yeah.

[David Alan Grier]

To me, I don't. I never got a chance to ask Doug this, but Adol Caesar was very slight. He was like 5, 9, 5 10. He made not even.

[Torre]

Not seemed like, not even that much.

[David Alan Grier]

No £150, very fair skinned.

[Torre]

Oh, my God.

[David Alan Grier]

And to me, that was just another level of the subversion. Because this was a man who won the quad, Derek, in the first World War. Highly decorated. He'd seen Europe, he went all over Europe. So he comes back, he comes from a family where he said his father never learned to read or write. He hauled coal. His hatred of these black men he is in charge of now, they don't know. He'd never been to Europe. They'd never been into battle. He looks down on there. Most of them are from the south, they're darker skinned. And that, to me, that was yet another layer of his hatred and inner racism. The way he dealt with these soldiers, he hated them. He hated himself. You know, to me, that fueled all of that, you know, of course, all of that. Southern, Northern, Southern, interracial. Well, yeah, what do you call them?

[Torre]

Geechees.

[David Alan Grier]

Geechees that's very regional.

[Torre]

And the way he would. He would. He would like move his jaw like a killing. Like a litter, like, oh, no.

[David Alan Grier]

But he hated all that. He hated them and he hated himself.

[Torre]

Yes.

[David Alan Grier]

So to me, that was just juicy, man. It was juicy.

[Torre]

What was Denzel like back then?

[David Alan Grier]

Denzel was really funny. We all used to hang out. Denzel was funny in a motherfucker. That's one thing he needs to put on his resume. A for real ass comedy. You know, he was funny as hell. Now, my relationship to Denzel, I was at drama school. I went to Yale, you know, the graduate program. And I remember one day I wake up and I heard Denzel's voice and he was doing. What was that movie with Joel Siegel? Black and white, Carbon copy. He plays a son that George Siegel has fathered. He never met him. This black kid shows up, it's Denzel. And I'm looking at him like, I knew from the first time I saw him, oh, this dude's. I'm gonna see him again. He's gonna be a star. Cause he just had that charisma, that presence. I saw him do Wilma Rudolph, which was a television movie. And to this day, the acting in that television movie, he played the boyfriend of William Wilma Rudolph. Joe Seneca was in, just was brilliant. So Denzel was already on my radar. And we all auditioned for, like, during the run, we all went in on St. Elsewhere, but he got it, so. But then he still did the movie. And I remember one time he had these new Nikes on. I'm like, man, those are some nice sneakers. He said, man, Nike gave them to me. I was like, what? Why? He said, man, I'm on tv, man. And I remember Denzel. I don't remember this. I remember he said, you're not going to believe how much money I got. I was like, how much money you got? Because he's doing this TV series. He said with pride. $125,000. I was like, get out of here. 125 and 10 pairs of free sneakers.

[Torre]

Like, what?

[David Alan Grier]

Oh, man. I was like, these are goals. You're the man. Oh, my God. Oh, yeah, yeah. How. How naive were we?

[Torre]

So wait, now you're on a network sitcom?

[David Alan Grier]

Well, first of all, now I'm still here. Still here 40 years.

[Torre]

That's crazy.

[David Alan Grier]

I just. I feel great. I feel like I'm just coming into my own, man. I feel so capable. I know myself. I know my facility, my acting facility. And it's just all joy because, you know, with Age you come, become more sure of yourself, more confident and all that projects into the work. Like, I don't get hung up on a lot of bullshit that I used to get hung up on. What is a leading man? What am I? Do I fit in this category? No, man, I can't remember last time I auditioned. I like to audition because I like to show you what I can do and not you assume what I can do. Because when someone assumes what you can do, they're gonna put you in a box. You talking about Torre? Oh, he does this? No, that's all he just does podcast. He can't do nightly news or whatever. There's limitations. So I love to go in and read, but people offer me jobs.

[Torre]

So this job, they just call you up and call your agent and say, hey, you want to be a doctor? On our new sitcom, I went to my agent.

[David Alan Grier]

My daughter is going to turn 17 in January. But I really went to my team, my agent, my manager. I said, look, I want to stay close to home. I live in la. I didn't want to travel a lot. I wanted. Because my daughter's going to go away to college and then they're gone. And I want something smart. I don't want to do a broad comedy. I want to do something single camera. And days later they said, here's a script. It was St. Denis. It was everything I asked for. You know, a lot of times people go, well, Tori, what do you want? We gonna make a list. But do you really think I'm gonna get all this? No, I'll probably get two, maybe three things. It hit everything, but I feel like.

[Torre]

There'S not a lot of things being made. So just to see something new, nothing get made. Like, how does this. And it's not. Doesn' like a huge star attached? Like, excuse me, sir.

[David Alan Grier]

No, no, you're right, you're right. I mean, the state of our business, we went through Covid. Then we went through a strike, which I didn't think the strike was going to be a year. Then everybody, we all thought, well, the strike's been settled. It's going to be gangbusters. No, man, no. Netflix, Amazon, all these streamers pulled back all the money that they literally had been throwing at people. We never knew half these shows, they did Apple tv, they don't. They don't give you the ratings. They go, oh, we. We have a different algorithm. Well, apparently they. This shit cost $8 billion and they weren't making any money. So that was part of it. Now then AI comes and I just feel really fortunate to be on a show, period.

[Torre]

Well, how does this show get through when people are like, let's.

[David Alan Grier]

Because it was attached to a big star? I don't know, man. I mean, you know these guys, Justin and Eric and those guys, they had done Superstore for NBC, they had done American Auto. But let me tell you how it went down. So they gimme the script and they said, look, you have a day. They always say that shit. I'm like, yeah, okay, whatever. And my agent, manager, have you read the script? I said, no, but they don't really. They said, dave, they need to know by sundown. So I read the script. I was like, well, damn, let's do it. I knew Wendy was in it. I knew Allison was in it. Those are the only two actors I knew. Allison I know from Fargo, which I thought she was brilliant. Wendy I knew from Reno911 and I knew she was bulletproof too. So then at least those people, I knew their work.

[Torre]

Do you not at this point, every time you walk on a set, you know a bunch of people because you've been in a business?

[David Alan Grier]

Yeah, but it's not the people. Always the same people. Like, I may know the cameraman, I may know the prop guy. That's not the creative staff. Anyway, I had never worked with. I had no relation to any of these people connected with St. Denis. The creators sent me an email asking me to do it. That didn't happen before. Anna Gasteyer, who is a good friend, she sent me an email and saying she vouching for these guys. One of the executives in NBC's casting sent me an email. I'm like, what is going on? I never was. No, they were like, we know we got somebody else. I mean, if you don't want to do it, I mean, you don't do it. So it was like, damn, what's going on? But the script was great. I always is about that script was great. It was 10 minutes from my house. It was everything I wanted. It was well written. Part was cool. I said, well, shit, I gotta do it.

[Torre]

I like Dr. Leonard. He's cool. He's over medicine.

[David Alan Grier]

Yeah, like I think, oh, he's over the drain.

[Torre]

You said, I'm like a mechanic. And like, that's not somebody who's like, medicine is amazing. I am a God.

[David Alan Grier]

I think he started out like that for sure. Oh, I see him like back in the day, he was like, you know, he came, he was on the vanguard. We about to reimagine healthcare. Right, okay. We gonna get rid of all this stuff. And what happens to a lot of doctors? My dad was a psychiatrist. So I did grow up in a community of black professionals. Doctors, lawyers, that was. But there was like. I remember when as a kid, I was like, dad, how do you define insanity? He sucked his teeth, he rolled his eyes, and he looked at me like, motherfucker. He said, insanity is a legal term. And by the way, when I would ask him these questions, it was always like a proctal exam. He was like, what the fuck, man? So I was like, okay, well, okay, yeah. He just. But again, him, he often said the art of psychiatry is dead. Meaning he did not want to be what a lot of psychiatrists are today, which are pharmacists, you know, you dole out some pills. No, he was the old school talk therapy along with some medication. But that's not really what our healthcare system supports. Now they can't afford it.

[Torre]

Right. Because. Right, right, right. The corollary to you saying, I'm just a mechanic is the moment when you're like, I just spent 15 minutes helping a patient. Now I'm gonna spend 45 minutes inputting these electronic forms.

[David Alan Grier]

Not only that, the regular schedule. If I worked for an hmo, they time. They have a time limit on how much time you spend with a doctor. I don't know your situation, but I have the same doctor I've been going through for over 20 years. Longer than that. The most information that is transpired between us is the preamble and the follow up, meaning we just sit and talk. When I go for my annual physical, the first half hour, we just talk. How you doing? How you feeling? Because you go in with the laundry list. My knee hurts, my headache. No, I give him more information like, well, I'm doing this new job, my girlfriend cheated on me, so. And so all that is feeding into your health. But how are you feeling? I used to exercise, but I don't know, I have this ankle thing and it won't heal. And they're learning. And then the examination starts and doctors can't take that time. They're allotted five minutes, ten minutes.

[Torre]

And you're. There's an interesting contrast between you as the doctor who's like experienced and kind of over it, and the younger doctor who like, thinks he's a God, thinks he's the man. I'm an incredible surgeon. I'm changing the world.

[David Alan Grier]

Well, I mean, if you want to get deep, deep. I think Ron was all of those things at one time. And now I think the Medical and pharmacological machine has just worn him down. My mom was a kindergarten teacher and she used to say, oh, these kids. And I'd be like, mom, they're five. They can't be. You don't understand. It's the parents too, you know, and she was just beat down, like. But then my parents had gotten a divorce. She worked. Cause she had to work. She wasn't there because, like, I'm gonna teach these kids. So there's a lot of my portrayal, both my parents and this character. Yes, I think Ron is a realistic, down to earth doctor. He's sick of the patients. Because in the trailer it's like, you don't want to take antibiotics. No, I wanna. I don't wanna build up my resistance. I'll need em. I'll take em when I really need em. He's just like, okay. Like, if you were a Covid doctor, he'd be like, so you think this is all a lie? Yeah. You know, I read stories about non believers. They didn't take the vaccine. This one woman, her brother's dying of COVID and he's pronounced dead. And they said the woman stormed in the room and was trying to raise his body in the name of Jesus. And it's funny, but it's not funny. Like, I read an article where one doctor, he said he spoke with a particular patient and convinced him that he should have taken the vaccine. It was too late. He had Covid, but that took an hour and a half. How long is his shift? That's one patient. So in a health crisis, you have hundreds, thousands of people. It is impossible for every doctor to sit there and talk to me, assuage your fears and convince you that medicine is real and please take my cure. Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn [e-mail] Credit Card Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report, this is an ad from BetterHelp Online Therapy. We always hear about the red flags to avoid in relationships. But it's just as important to focus on the green flags. If you're not quite sure what they look like, therapy can help you identify those qualities. So you can embody the green flag energy and find it in others. BetterHelp offers therapy 100% online, and sign up only takes a few minutes. Visit betterhelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelph.

[Torre]

E L P.com but also, in a drama, we expect the actor has done that deep thinking and knows the past of the character. And I think in a comedy, we don't always expect that. And you have made Dr. Rawn a real character with a whole life and backstory. And you just say one line, but I can feel like, oh, there is a life behind. When you're like, he used to be. I'm like, yes. I feel that.

[David Alan Grier]

I thought about it. I mean, also, I think with Alison's character, I see a lot of myself in her. She's a young mom. She's juggling her romantic life with her husband, trying to be a present mother. I lost all that. I lost my wife. My kids are estranged. I don't want her to go down that path. She refuses to leave because there's always going to be another sick person. So I think he tries to mentor her in that way. Go home.

[Torre]

That interplay made me actually sad that she couldn't pull herself away from the hospital to go experience her daughter's play, even though she was clearly super excited and super proud. And I'm like, damn, I feel for the daughter of that part. That part, to me, wasn't funny. And the show is not.

[David Alan Grier]

It's not supposed to be.

[Torre]

The show is not always funny.

[David Alan Grier]

The best description of our show, someone called it a serio comedy, meaning.

[Torre]

A serio comedy, meaning there are serious.

[David Alan Grier]

Moments that are earned, legitimate.

[Torre]

Yes.

[David Alan Grier]

But there's also comedy, and the comedy is organic and earned.

[Torre]

Yes.

[David Alan Grier]

There's not a lot of badum, badum, badum.

[Torre]

No, there's not a laugh track. There are real moments when we're gonna hug. It's a hospital where, like, we really care about each other. Mm.

[David Alan Grier]

Like. Like, I. There's not a funeral I've ever gone to in which laughter did not occur at our saddest moment.

[Torre]

Well, you gonna make them laugh wherever you go?

[David Alan Grier]

No, but this is one. I remember Rock Dutton, he told me, he said, this is the hardest dude in his neighborhood. This dude was mean. He kicked everybody's ass. He said, he's at the funeral and just. It was like a Chaplin movie. He said, everybody's shoulders are heaving, their families weeping and crying. And one of his boys said. He said, that's the best this motherfucker ever looked. And the laughter just came. Cause It's a part of it. Yeah, it's a part of it. So there's all that, the absurdity of the situation, all of that stuff.

[Torre]

So yes, I feel your pain in I think the third episode when you might be getting some attention from the young hottie. And then she's like, I want to introduce you to my grandmother. And you're like, meh.

[David Alan Grier]

Really?

[Torre]

And then Lynn Whitfield walks in.

[David Alan Grier]

I know, I know.

[Torre]

And right. She might be the hottest woman of her age.

[David Alan Grier]

Actually someone tried to set me up with her when I first met her.

[Torre]

For real? For real.

[David Alan Grier]

Yeah. I've known she was Lynn and I was just David, but we became friends. I mean, she was great. I've seen her.

[Torre]

No, she's wonderful.

[David Alan Grier]

Yeah. But I was really happy that they got her.

[Torre]

I would expect Dr. Ron to see her walk, even though he likes 33, 34, 35 year olds. I would say her to walk, Lyn. Oh, it's lit.

[David Alan Grier]

Oh.

[Torre]

Oh.

[David Alan Grier]

How like so many people. I'm sure you have single friends that tell you, torre, please hook me up with somebody. And you know good and well if I mean Idris himself walk through they be. No, I don't. That's Dr. Ron. Dr. Ron. He is a doctor, but he ain't no 10. Of course he wants a woman half his age. And like so many of us, he does not have a realistic picture of himself.

[Torre]

I can still remember sitting in my parents living room watching In Living Color. First episode, second episode, third ep. Like we were. Cause we were on it.

[David Alan Grier]

How old were you?

[Torre]

Day one? I think I was 17, 18. But it's either junior or senior year when it first came out.

[David Alan Grier]

Well, I didn't think it was ever gonna get on the air.

[Torre]

The show was a phenomenon. Almost immediately I'm gonna repeat to you.

[David Alan Grier]

I did not think the show was going to get on the air. And in a lot of ways that's what made us so free. We did an hour pilot, right? So it took over a year to pick up In Living Color before we got picked up. That was the early days of Fox. What we didn't know is so I would go and do jobs, like I did an episode of alf. I remember. So when I would go and do these other jobs, they had already seen a bootleg copy of In Living Color. So the crew would come to me and go, hey man, I don't know what I just watched, but this is the funniest shit I've ever seen.

[Torre]

Cause it was totally different than everything else.

[David Alan Grier]

Oh yeah. And Also, really quick sidebar. There was this whole big, what I call it, Xanadu idea for black actors. It was, if I had my druthers, there should be a black snl, right? Oh, my God. Yes. So that was. Kenan actually did it. Yes, Kenan actually did it. That was In Living Color. And so I just didn't think they were ready. I didn't think we were. We were broadcast three episodes, and we won the People's Choice Award, I think. Did we win an Emmy? I think we won an Emmy. It was a phenomenon.

[Torre]

Everyone was talking about it right away. One of the first things that jumped out at me, I think it was in one of the first Homie the Clown sketches. And Homie was incredible.

[David Alan Grier]

Well, that was.

[Torre]

Dang.

[David Alan Grier]

That was awesome.

[Torre]

But the ability for all you guys to immediately become children, and I'm like, I really believe that they are children and not mocking children, but, like, playing children in a really genuine.

[David Alan Grier]

He was so mean to us.

[Torre]

That was incredible. But it was. But the way that you guys brought me to, like, they're kid. They. They are kids right now. Like, that was incredible. I love that.

[David Alan Grier]

Well, you know, my training, okay, So I went to. At the time, it was called the Yale School of Drama. And I bring it up because my training was to be a repertory actor, meaning in a company of actors. One week I'll be Hamlet, the other week I'll be, you know, what. What do they call a mechanical, you know, a smaller role. Living Color was the closest thing to that existence that I ever had. It was a company of performers. The thing I miss most about Living Color was trust. I knew that whatever I went comedically, my castmates would follow me, that if I fell forward, they would catch me.

[Torre]

And we all did that because everyone was crazy.

[David Alan Grier]

Yeah. But we were just bought in. We were in and we bought into this team. And that was. I mean, it was awesome to get my whatever sketch on. And the next week, I played a smaller role and, say, Jim Carrey's sketch. We all fed each other. There was a lot of jealousy, a lot of backbiting, but that's. In any situation.

[Torre]

What were you jealous of?

[David Alan Grier]

Well, everybody, you know, I need more.

[Torre]

More time.

[David Alan Grier]

I need more. I need more. Somebody asked me, they go, wow, what'd you do with the Fly Girls? I didn't. They could have walked through the room naked. I was like, bout them jokes, man, I need this character. Give me this other character. We would all. I mean. And Kenan told us. He said, we're not gonna write for you, you have to come in with these characters. And I remember one time we'd sit around the table, and he'd go around, he'd say, okay, Tori, dude, what characters do you have? You're supposed to bring in characters. It was a dead day. Nobody had shit. You know, I was like, chicken, man. Whatever. So Damon is sitting there. Damon weigh in. And it was just dud after dud. And get to Damon. He said, damon. So he scratched his chin. And he said, well, I'm sitting there going, here we go. He said, what if there was a black dude who was a slave, but he hid in a cave? And we already started laughing for 200 years, and he didn't know slavery was over. And we're already laughing. This is brilliance. So the sketch was like, Kenan was his granddad. And Damon, he wakes up, he goes, what we gonna do, Daddy, Are you dying? He said, yes, hon, I'm about to die. But you going out there in that world. And he walks out and he meets me, and I'm talking to this white woman. You know, Damon's like, you can't. Oh, Lord. You know, he's doing all this stuff. It was brilliant. But that's the kind of.

[Torre]

How did Men on Film start?

[David Alan Grier]

Oh, Men on Film was actually Kenan and Damon. So when we would read around, they were brothers. If something didn't work. Cause originally I was in the Headleys, which was Jamaican. I couldn't really do a Jamaican accent because I sounded like Donovan Lucky Charms. I could do Irish. So I passed it on to Damon. So Kenan and Damon were doing the Men on Film thing. But I had a take on it. When I lived in New York, there was a public access show. It was something called, like. Like, in the Closet or something. You never saw the dude's face. And what he did is he showed straight movies, but he put a gay perspective on it. And it was unintentionally hilarious. Like, he would say, for all you guys in the closet, let's take a look at Top Gun. And it was the shower scene. So in other words, so originally, been on film, they made up movie titles. And I went over and said, no, man, we gotta do real movies that have nothing to do with gayness. And we're gonna put it on them. And I think that was one of the keys to the characters. I remember we spoofed Spike Lee, and Spike Lee would get so mad he was sending.

[Torre]

He got really mad.

[David Alan Grier]

Oh, yeah, he did. Because it was not. He didn't like it.

[Torre]

That sketch Was a phenomenon within the phenomenon, right?

[David Alan Grier]

Yes.

[Torre]

And did you feel that? Cause people were walking around talking about. Hated it in, like, real life, I'll tell you.

[David Alan Grier]

Have you ever been to the Beverly Center? The Beverly Center? No big. So at the time after the been on film cam, I was walking through there with my then wife, and as I went by these stores, I could hear people snapping. And I'm like, what is that?

[Torre]

Two snaps up?

[David Alan Grier]

Exactly. So I looked at all the salesmen and women were snapping. And my agent called the next day after the pilot. She said, this is blowing up. Every studio is called. And the two snaps thing is, you might as well. You sitting in it, that's what you're going to be doing. And it was just one of those things. It just caught on. Because I also feel, I can only tell you intentionally, you could never do these characters now, but intentionally, I never approached that character with bias. It was not homophobic. There was not hate or judgment on their lifestyle. As a matter of fact, men on film were comfortable in who and what they were. They ain't for sure. Come to us, we ain't coming to you.

[Torre]

I think that sketch is modern in that now. People are more encouraged to say, you know, look at this piece of art and see it through my lens. It's actually, you know, pro gay. It's pro black. It's anti.

[David Alan Grier]

And let me. Let me just extrapolate for a minute. I'm not a member of that community, so I can't speak for them, but. And I understand the bias against those characters. They're stereotypic, and they can be used as people with homophobia, et cetera. Gay hate. It's not helpful. I understand all that, but I don't know who this guy was. He wrote an editorial that I found online. I could send it to you. It's not made up. And he said, as a young gay black person, those characters changed his life.

[Torre]

Man on film changed his life.

[David Alan Grier]

Yes. He said these were icons and he felt seen. He felt. I mean, it was the opposite point of view. Does every gay person feel that? No, of course not. But I do remember at the time, generationally older gay viewers were offended, appalled. The younger gay crowd loved it. They had men on film nights. I was dating this girl. She lived in Venice. So her neighbors were across her courtyard, this gay couple. And she said, one time I went home and they were like, do you know who you're dating? And she was like, yeah. She said, so these were young dudes, you know, 20s or whatever. And yeah, some of the bars would do Men on film nights, where they showed all of our sketches. And that was just what it was like.

[Torre]

My kid came to me the other day and was like, you know, the Matrix is a trans allegory. And I'm like, what? And then we started talking through it and like, yes, it is now we know.

[David Alan Grier]

But in the moment, we didn't.

[Torre]

No, at the time, we did not understand. But over years, the trans community started to notice. And when the Wachowskis went their direction, then everyone's, oh, it is, right? And you, man on film would have said that, right? Like, oh, it's an allegory for being trans. And we would've been like, that's so funny. And like, no, you're dead. Right.

[David Alan Grier]

Yes. Yeah, well. But, you know, it was something that we did also. There was no social media, right? There were some gay activists who were very offended and spoke out about those characters. We can't do it today. I wouldn't do it today, but at the time we did it.

[Torre]

Who's your favorite character that you did?

[David Alan Grier]

I'll say off the top of my head, Jamie Foxx. And I played these barbers, and it was based on the barbers that I went to see at this one barbershop on Linwood in Detroit. It was called the Motor City Barbershop. And all these men, older black men from the south, and they just went at it. I was telling my publicist in the car, you know, back then they had an Afro chart, right? From Ebony magazine, right? And it was like, well, point to the wall. Cause, you know, everybody comes in. Well, can you. I want it bubble on the top, but can you point to the wall, right?

[Torre]

And it was like one of the.

[David Alan Grier]

Wilmores, the Wilmore brothers, Larry Moore and Wilmore and his late great brother Mark, they had their own black barbershop moment. Now, their thing was Mark and Larry said their barber will be like, nigga, point to the wall. I don't give a fuck what you think you want. Point to the wall. So we had all that in common, all that went with these characters. And that's where I met James Brown. And he actually did a. But that was the most fun, that. And also when the whole cast got together, like we did the prison cable channel network, which is all of us, when Kenan, all of us, Jim Carrey, we all performed together. And that was the most visceral fun in the moment of acting and, you know, that kind of stuff. So those are two characters, but a lot of them were fun. I'm Sure.

[Torre]

I mean, it seemed like y'all were having an extraordinary.

[David Alan Grier]

Well, I'll tell you a quick story. So when Jamie Foxx came in, I think he came in the second year or whatever, I remember he came over to me. He was like, man, y'all are doing Men on film. That is the funniest. He said. And already, you know, me and Dame were like, yeah, yeah, whatever. We're sick of it. And so he said, I wish you were out your mind. I wish to God if I had a character in a hit. I play that motherfucker every week. Cut to. He became Wanda, the Ugly Girl. Months later, he was pouting, dressed in drag, and I'm sitting there crying, laughing. I said, you better watch what you pray for.

[Torre]

Be careful what you wish for.

[David Alan Grier]

Yeah. You know, they all ask him, how do you make an actor bitch? Give him a job. You know, it's not right. They paying me too much money. They got me showing up. I'm tired of dating beautiful women, people recognizing me. I don't want that. It's like, okay, whatever. Yes, yes, it's true.

[Torre]

Were you a funny kid?

[David Alan Grier]

I was a class clown.

[Torre]

And were you the class clown who made the teacher laugh?

[David Alan Grier]

Not. Not. No. I had a teacher named Mrs. Van Otten. Do I need to go further? She had Bell's Palsy. She was an older, white German woman. Now, this is in the 60s where they put hands on you. All my teachers had paddles.

[Torre]

Your teachers hit you?

[David Alan Grier]

Oh, I was paddled several times in front of the class during school. That was loud.

[Torre]

On your hand or on your butt?

[David Alan Grier]

On your butt. On your butt.

[Torre]

The humiliation. David called up to the front of the room and get hit in front of your classmates?

[David Alan Grier]

Absolutely. Third grade.

[Torre]

How late?

[David Alan Grier]

Third, fourth, fifth, sixth. Sixth grade. It stopped when I was in seventh grade. So now you're saying 1970. Now, I remember one teacher. We're still kids, but this one teacher, his workaround was David come to the front of the class. I go, okay, I got busted. I was talking. You tell me, Mr. Johnson, please paddle me. Cause I swear to God, when I.

[Torre]

Looked at you, you had to say, please paddle me in this one teacher.

[David Alan Grier]

Because I think he caught a case. And so his bootleg reach around. I mean, workaround. Sorry. His bootleg workaround was, I'm gonna have the child request. Therefore it's not coming to me. And we never knew. We never got the details of the case. But something happened. Oh, yeah, man. But back to my story. So Ms. Van Otten, she didn't paddle she had a strong right hand and she would slap the shit out of you between your shoulder blades at the base of your neck.

[Torre]

So if you're talking some karate chop shit. Yep.

[David Alan Grier]

And she could sneak around too. So you kicking with Bam gum. Oh, yeah. So she kicked me out four times in a 40 minute class. I'm not kidding. But when I, you know, you know when you're a kid, it didn't register. When I got older, that was every 10 minutes, literally, right. She kicked me out of the beginning class. So you had to stand outside, you looking in the window, making faces and shit. Okay, David, you can come back in. Immediately I did something. She kicked me back out four times. So I was, I was a mess. I was a class clown. I admit it.

[Torre]

But what did you, what do you like? What did you like? What do you like about making people laugh?

[David Alan Grier]

It was power. I remember when I was a little kid and one of my classmates, she brought her friend over, she said, my friend Betty is sad. David will make you laugh. And I was like, what? Even as a kid, I guess it was there. It was always there. I'm just getting paid for it.

[Torre]

But you do take, you do have power in that. You tell a joke, you make me laugh. I am physically incapacitated. You could practically take my wallet out of my pocket. Cause I'm like crumpling from the laughter. And I'm right. Like I'm like paralyzed for a moment, right? Like I can't do anything. And you're just standing there, like, now I'm gonna say something else. And I'm like, oh my God, I'm crying. My stomach hurts. Like I can't.

[David Alan Grier]

Well, think about this. The most dangerous person in Shakespearean plays. Like, when I first started reading Shakespeare, I didn't get it. It was the clown. Now, the clown wasn't funny in Shakespeare. He was a truth teller, but he was dressed as a jester. That is what interests me. And our favorite comedians say Dave Chappelle, Richard Pryor, George Carlin. In modern day, they're truth tellers under the guise of comedy. A comic, a brilliant comic takes everyday occurrence, an everyday humiliation, and turns it around. Like, I never thought about that and makes you laugh. So that's the subversive nature of comedy. Think about, go back and listen to some of the Richard Pryor. Oh, man, I saw him many times. That was my favorite comedian.

[Torre]

What'd you learn watching him?

[David Alan Grier]

All of that. All of that. I remember a comic said he came into the Comedy Store one night and Richard Pryor Told the story of Jesus of Nazareth. He said everybody loved him. He saved all of these people. And what did you do? You killed him. It was so deep. I never heard it or saw it. But this dude was like, he was looking around going, what the fuck? Are you listening to this? Yes, man. Richard Pryor was everything to me. Like, he was really funny. But then when he became political and started speaking his real truth, it just got deeper and deeper and deeper. So that's my benchmark. I mean, that's the.

[Torre]

I remember him doing a baby being born and he crawls out and just the physicality is incredible. Cause there's not really words in that impression. It's incredible. It's brilliant. It's physical, it's thoughtful.

[David Alan Grier]

Like, no, he was a real artist. And so I saw him the first time in my freshman year. So this is 1974 at University of Michigan. Patti LaBelle opened all silver. He did that. Richard Burr comes out and he started doing mud balm. And then he did the drunk. And he pulled what I thought was a bottle. And he wiped the bottle, he took the cap off, he took the cap, he blew in it, he put it in his pocket. Now I'm sitting in the back with my friend and I could not tell whether this was a real bottle. So I snuck all the way down to the front just to see. And I realized he'd never had a bottle. But the specificity of that, and those were characters I just told you about. The barbershop mudbone was there.

[Torre]

Every day I can say to my.

[David Alan Grier]

New Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra, hey, find a keto friendly restaurant nearby and text.

[Torre]

It to Beth and Steve.

[David Alan Grier]

And it does. Without me lifting a finger so I can get in more squats anywhere I can. 1, 2, 3.

[Torre]

Will that be cash or credit? Credit.

[David Alan Grier]

4 Galaxy S25 Ultra. The AI companion that does the heavy lifting. So you can do you get [e-mail] compatible with select apps.

[Torre]

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[David Alan Grier]

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[Torre]

You know, my dad used to play for me. When I was too little to be listening to this live on a Sunset Strip.

[David Alan Grier]

Oh, my God.

[Torre]

And I never forget the part. Cause, you know, when you're little, like, bathing and getting bathed is, like a big thing, right? And after he got burned, and they're like, okay, so tomorrow we're gonna wash you. Like, okay, let's do it. Okay, in an hour, we're gonna wash. Okay, let's do it. And then they put the sponge on. Ah.

[David Alan Grier]

Hey, man, let me tell you something. I remember. Cause I'm older than you, but I remember when that happened, right? And I was visiting this girl in Los Angeles, staying with her. And I remember on the news, they pronounced him dead.

[Torre]

Yep, yep.

[David Alan Grier]

I remember hearing that.

[Torre]

Yep. They didn't think that. Yep, yep, yep.

[David Alan Grier]

And when they said he may make it, I just. He was everything and such an artist. Blue Collar was a movie that I loved because it was really serious, yet it was really funny. But again, based in reality.

[Torre]

Paddy Chayefsky, he's your number one comic of all time and actor.

[David Alan Grier]

I mean, I wish he would have lived longer. Oh, absolutely. Because here's what it is. I grew up in a time like when I was a little kid. My mom would watch the Mike Douglas show.

[Torre]

Yeah.

[David Alan Grier]

Georgie Jessel would come on. Now, Georgie Jessel was like a vaudeville comic. But, you know, as kids, when adults are laughing, I saw nothing remotely resembling comedy. I would sit there and I'd be like, why is this person funny? Jack Benny, who's brilliant. But generationally, it wasn't until I was much older that I got Jack Benny. But, you know, Milton Berle, none of these guys resonated until the first time I saw Richard Pryor on the Ed Sullivan Show. And that moment, I was like, okay, he's talking to me. This dude is funny. And that's what it was.

[Torre]

You see? I'm sure you see it the same way that a lot of people are like, look at LeBron. Right? You wanna talk about Jordan? What about LeBron?

[David Alan Grier]

LeBron is great, right?

[Torre]

And we feel our way about Jordan, but there's a stronger and stronger case for LeBron.

[David Alan Grier]

He's the final six champions, bro. Come on.

[Torre]

No, I got.

[David Alan Grier]

LeBron's winning in a different way.

[Torre]

Does Chappelle have a case for Goat alongside the ghost?

[David Alan Grier]

I think in those terms. I don't think in those terms, they're not the same. One begat the other for sure. And I also feel like Once In Living Color became successful and popular. That's when Uptown comedy night. All these black, deaf Poetry, not deaf poetry. Def Jam started, and I felt they were all derivative from In Living Color until the Chappelle show came to me. That was the first show post In Living Color that brought a whole new generation built on what we did, but in no way was copying it. He was his own voice. I'll tell you another thing. I met Dave Chappelle when he was 17. I was headlining at Caroline's, so he was my middle. Neil Brennan would come and sit with him every day. Dave was real cool, man. He was real cool. He's a kid, so when people come to visit me, they'd be like, well, how'd you like the show? Yeah, it was cool. Who's that kid? I was like, oh, that's Dave, man. Dave Chappelle. Yeah, he's funny. Yeah, he's cool. But I wrote two new jokes, like, little did I know, you know? No, Dave was always. He came out the box like that, and his show just was another step in that platform.

[Torre]

It's interesting because in that. So funny in that early Dave, standup era, most like crack baby, crack dealing baby, that sort of shit. I think 99% of the time, he's not talking about himself. He might appear in the story, but he's not talking about himself. Anybody could have post Chappelle's show. He's quite often talking about himself and.

[David Alan Grier]

About Dave Chappelle also, how he's dealing with the world.

[Torre]

Yes.

[David Alan Grier]

So there's a comedy club owner, her name is Jamie Masota. He owns a laugh factory. There was a period where there are these marathon comedy nights. Like, Dave would do five hours, six hours.

[Torre]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Alan Grier]

And Dane Cook would do. They were going back and back. So Jamie told me, he said one night, Dave's there, he's done about two hours, and he says, look, I have to go to the bathroom. I'm gonna take a quick break. I'll be back in about 10 minutes. And he said, dave, put the mic down. He got up and walked off, and the bathroom's right there. I said, well, what did the audience do? Jamie said, nobody moved. They just stared at the stool. He was still on stage. And Jamie was like, I never seen this in all my years of comedy. He knew everybody. He said, no one moved. It was as if Chappelle was still there and, like, he was gonna tell another joke. You can hear him in the bathroom, humming, pissing, washing his hands. Finally, he rambles back on. Standing ovation, and he goes for another three hours. That's. It's like. It's part of the beat.

[Torre]

It's part of the band.

[David Alan Grier]

Hey, man, that's a different level. That's a different level, man. I loved Dave Chappelle, and I love him now more than ever because what people don't know, when he was really going through his troubles with the show and he left the show and he had this whole breakdown, you know, the Wayans talk to him. I remember. So what I'm saying, there's a community behind the cameras. We check in on each other. We reach out. Are you good? Are you okay? And so in that moment, I didn't know what the future held for Dave, right? But he came all the way back stronger. This is something we all know, but this is the ultimate to me. Dave Chappelle story. This man had no rights to his own show. We all signed those contracts. You don't own your own fucking show unless you sign that contract. This motherfucker negotiated with HBO in front of an audience of paying customers and won. He won. They didn't have to give him shit. This motherfucker said, look, I know I signed the contract, but you should give me my show. And what did they do? They gave him his fucking show, man. Nobody talks about that.

[Torre]

I'm not saying you should boycott it, but if you don't watch it, I will be very.

[David Alan Grier]

Listen to me, people. That's the news that this motherfucker negotiated in front of the world, asked for what he was not owed, and won. And when he did, I said, well, damn. Shit. It was. To me, that was crazy. And I don't think people still don't understand what an incredible moment that was. HBO had every right to say, fuck you, right? That's. I mean, members of half the stand, half of Seinfeld wanted a piece of the show. They said, no, no, you ain't getting no piece of the show. We'll give you a raise. That's usually the way it happened in all of Hollywood, the history of Hollywood. Then Dave Chappelle comes in and negotiated in plain sight and won. That right there. I was like, oh, my God. It was crazy and amazing to watch.

[Torre]

Why is it that none of the In Living Color community, many of whom are superstars and legends, how come Lorne Michaels never grabbed any of y'all?

[David Alan Grier]

Oh, he. You know, I hosted SNL twice, but.

[Torre]

I mean, we need you. Part of the group. Y'all are killing over there on fox. Come over here.

[David Alan Grier]

It's a longer story. You're kind of along the lines of like when American Bandstand took all the soul training Dancers. That happened because they were so hot. You know, Soul Train was so hot. He took the dancers, he paid them more, and they defected. For one thing, we, as performers. I know, for me, I can't speak for everybody. This was our place of freedom. We knew that it wasn't. It was created by this black man.

[Torre]

Yeah.

[David Alan Grier]

And run by this black man. We didn't have to explain ourselves. We didn't. We were given all the freedom and leeway, and Kenan fought for us. Like I didn't realize till years later when I did Boomerang. Kenan never told Fox. What he told me is he said, you can do this movie. You just have to be here for tapings. So all these years, I figured, well, he obviously went to Fox and made a deal. And it wasn't till years later I realized he said, I never went to them because if I'd have gone to them, they would have said no, and you wouldn't have been able to do this film. That's crazy.

[Torre]

So he just didn't say anything?

[David Alan Grier]

No, and he did it for me. He didn't get anything from it, but he knew what a big opportunity this was, this Eddie Murphy movie in 1992. Eddie was at the height of.

[Torre]

Of Halle Berry's boyfriend.

[David Alan Grier]

No, but I mean, that just. I tell that story. Yeah. I tell that story because that is really who Kenan was.

[Torre]

Is okay. But I understand the loyalty to Kenan, the desire to work in that community. Right. I mean, like, what y'all did is better than so much of what happened on snl.

[David Alan Grier]

Yeah, but I don't.

[Torre]

When In Living Color starts to break apart, I would think Lauren would be like, well, we got to have that one.

[David Alan Grier]

Or that one. No, no, because I think that, you know, when I hosted, a host has his pick of the cast, his pick of the sketches, and he runs shit. So what happened was I hosted twice, and then they asked me to join the cast, and I said no, because I realized as a host, you have power. That as a cast member, I'm just going to be in the back of the crowd. And I. And I didn't want to do that. And I also feel like I never.

[Torre]

So you were asked to join?

[David Alan Grier]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And it was right after In Living Color. You know, back then, I wanted to have my own sitcom. Dag David's World. Everything's Coming Up David. Something like that. Big, huge hit. Make $50 billion, and I'm set five years syndication. We good? That never happened. That never happened. But that was my goal at that time, I think talking to Damon, talking to Chris Rock, I love Lauren, by the way, and they were great to me. But I think that he still saw SNL as the leader at the vanguard. And we're doing what we do. We don't need to do that. Like Damon would describe all these black comedians would pitch stuff, but it was to an all white power structure which would go, why would you. I don't think people will laugh at this or that. It didn't occur to them. And that's different than overt racism. It's an aspect of it. It's no different than men going, why would women. It's going on right now. The reverse. No, I'm going to take care of you most. No, the women want to take care of themselves. No, no, no, no, no. You're doing too much. You don't need freedom. You need me to take care of you. That, to me is the same thing. No, that's good for you people. But I don't think America would laugh at this black joke. And that was very much the sense I got. But again, I was not there as a cast member. I was there as a host. So when you come as a host, what do you want to do? Pick the sketches. Who do you want to work with? Pick the writers. You don't have that freedom as a writer and a performer on SNL unless you become really famous. Which I'll tell you something else. When Eddie Murphy blew up, I saw it, they were angry at him for a good 20 years because he got too. Oh, absolutely.

[Torre]

Why?

[David Alan Grier]

Because he got too big.

[Torre]

He got too powerful for snl.

[David Alan Grier]

Yes.

[Torre]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, he was.

[David Alan Grier]

But there was resentment. You mean in the cast, in the organization of snl.

[Torre]

He was bigger than SNL for a few years.

[David Alan Grier]

Well, then, now you have power. And now they can't treat you like the dude who's not really funny in the back office. You're going to do what I say. No, he had this power. They had to give him a certain amount of screen time, and that was resentment. And then he left and became even bigger. So, I mean, he didn't go back for like, what, 20 years? Maybe longer. Yeah. So there was all of that. Now, I don't know if they'll. I'm just giving you my take. Yeah, okay. So that's what it was. I just remember talking to people and they're, you know, they would pitch stuff that was quintessentially black and to, you know, a table full of white folks going, hmm, I don't I don't get.

[Torre]

It, but your stuff would be granularly black of like, oh, look at the little joke in the middle. That's the throat. Like, I was so black. Oh, look at the.

[David Alan Grier]

Well, one of the first sketches Living Color ever did was me. I played this dude, black man in a high, high class clothing store and my credit card is declined. And just that whole experience of, you know, we sweating. I think I got money for this sweater. And they just put you through it. Well, put. Put your card in again. No. So it's something that we've all gone through as black people, brown people. Nobody ever talked about it.

[Torre]

I feel like you're a master of timing.

[David Alan Grier]

I am. Well, I. I'll tell you something. You know, Charles Lloyd, jazz musician, he said in an interview once, he said, when I was a young musician, I wanted to play the highest note note, the longest note. He said, but now, with age and wisdom, I just want to play the right note. So that's a lot of what I feel in my maturity as a man and as a performer. I don't have to do everything. I just have to do the right thing so that then I don't have to have all the lines. I don't have to have everything. I can find a spot. I'm gonna make something happen, you know, and also, as a fan, those are the moments that I really pick up on, these silent moments. I forget this movie, but Robert Walter Matthau did a comedy with Robin Williams, and Robin Williams was Robin Williams. He was all over the place. He was just crazy most of the movie. Walter Matthew would just sit there and stare at him. Yeah, And I fucking died. We died.

[Torre]

This show you're doing, St. Denis Medical.

[David Alan Grier]

Yes, back to St. Denis, good.

[Torre]

No, but it gives you. It gives you a lot of chances. It gives the actors a lot of chances to look and do the face thing to the cause. You're doing the faux documentary thing, right?

[David Alan Grier]

Absolutely.

[Torre]

But part of me goes, why are we doing the faux documentary?

[David Alan Grier]

Hey, man, I asked. That's the first thing I said. Why? And, you know, and it's funny, you know, the creators, the showrunners said, well, we may talk about that. I said, I really want them to, because that's a whole story you want.

[Torre]

The show to talk about.

[David Alan Grier]

No. Why are the cameras here?

[Torre]

Right?

[David Alan Grier]

What are we doing?

[Torre]

Right?

[David Alan Grier]

Is it a promotion? I just want.

[Torre]

Because it hasn't been explained.

[David Alan Grier]

It never is.

[Torre]

What is the point?

[David Alan Grier]

It never is. Why is Abbott elementary doing it? Why was the Office? We never learned that was their initial response. But my thing, I'm just going for the funny. There's a funny backstory. Either it comes from Joyce, our boss or something that. Who thought of this as a way to promote the hospital. One of the things, my favorite show during COVID was called Lenox Hill, and it was a documentary about Lenox Hill Hospital here in New York. And these were some of the world's greatest brain surgeons and Covid hits. Then one of the doctors actually has brain cancer. And it's how they're coping with all that. It's not funny at all. It's brutal. But that was one of my go to germs and sources for this show. And in fact, we do our cinema verite or documentary take. We just call it the Linux. The Linux, because that's where it is. It was absolutely dead serious. But because we all talked about it, I loved the show. And so we use that as part of the show.

[Torre]

Okay.

[David Alan Grier]

Yeah.

[Torre]

Okay. Wow.

[David Alan Grier]

We will find out why there's documentary, I promise you.

[Torre]

I mean, even when you come to the script, are you like, why? Why are we doing it?

[David Alan Grier]

Yeah, I mean, I did, but I mean, like I said, there's no other single camera show. They didn't do it on. What was it, Parks and Recreations? Did they ever sit and go, this is why we're doing this?

[Torre]

No, I mean, you. Not as a carrier, as an actor.

[David Alan Grier]

Oh, I did. I mean, these are one of the first. I'm telling you, this is one of the first questions. Now, the initial answer was, no other show explains it. But my thing is like. But there's a funny backstory as to why we're doing this and why it's keeps going and it never wraps and they're still here and we've never seen it and it's never been broadcast.

[Torre]

It does give you another way to interact with the camera. Right.

[David Alan Grier]

I mean, I do think that, you know, just like when I say multicam sitcom, we all know what that means. It's filmed in front of an audience and it's got the rhythm. Badam, badum, badam. Well, I see you got glasses on, but that means you're blind. You know, that's a form. And now at this point, single camera, I just look at it like another form. Like the. Instead of multicam, this is single camera, more film. Like there is no audience. And the invention is. It is a mockumentary. Yeah.

[Torre]

So, you know, where people felt like, okay, it's new and interesting. Okay, we've seen it a lot. But you're like, no, no, no. This is a genre. And we're gonna keep.

[David Alan Grier]

Obviously it is. Cause it's still here. Yeah, it's still here. And shows keep replicating it and going forward. So, like, anything, as long as whoever is using it does an interesting, innovative, fresh take on it, it's gonna be successful.

[Torre]

I mean, I do like it when the character looks at me with this look of like, do you believe this shit? Yeah, whatever. Whatever the face may be. But, like, you know, most of the shows, we ignore the camera on this show. Suddenly they're like, they told us.

[David Alan Grier]

I mean, don't tell me to look at the camera. Cause, you know, I am, you know, fuck going on. Yeah. So, I mean, that's kind of how I. How I look at it. There's nothing new in show business. There's nothing. People are novels.

[Torre]

Okay, wait, you're 68?

[David Alan Grier]

68. Why you gotta say it like that?

[Torre]

How much. How much longer you wanna go?

[David Alan Grier]

Well, I announced my retirement.

[Torre]

They did.

[David Alan Grier]

I will be announcing. I announced it on social media. I'll be retiring in 32 years at the age of 100. I wanna go. Listen, my. Here's my goal. If you watch, there's a Senior Olympics. There is a man, this white man, who is 100 years old. He's so old that there's no one but him in his categories. He's a sprinter. So every time he races, he gets a gold medal because he's only racing himself. That's what I want to be. I want to make it to. I'm the oldest motherfucker who still remembers lines, and they need me.

[Torre]

There's no one else to play the great, great grandfather.

[David Alan Grier]

Exactly. No. No one else. Okay. Well, speaking seriously, I am at a point in my life and my career, I don't have to work as much. I can choose what I want to do. So that frees me up to do what I want, not what I need. I mean, you know, I've had two divorces. Two marriages, two divorces. There's a period where I did a lot of shit that, you know, keep the lights on and we struggle through. But this is sweet shit right here. This is sweet spot. Like, I didn't know it would be like this. Like, this much fun. But I also. I think I said earlier, I finally figured out I know what I'm doing. Like, I've had friends who. A lot of my friends gained greater stardom than I did years ago. And more than one has sat in a room with me and said, the imposter syndrome. That's what they held. I hope they don't find out that I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. And I would bear witness to that. That wasn't my experience at the time. And now I'm doing all this work, but I've been in the business long enough. That's not a part of my neuroses.

[Torre]

You don't have Imposter?

[David Alan Grier]

No, because I told you, I put in my 10,000 hours. I'm not saying I'm the greatest actor ever in the history of the world. I know what the fuck I'm doing. That's all. And also all those anxieties. Who's watching me? Will I pull this off? This podcast, this show, this play? No, man. If you don't have those things to worry about, then it frees all.

[Torre]

What does bother you then?

[David Alan Grier]

Because, well, honestly, right now is I am getting to. I have less years to live than I have lived and trying to make the projects in terms of my professional life meaningful to me. I don't want to waste time, and I'm not going to waste time on any more bullshit shows or plays. Just things I don't believe in or I don't feel. I don't have time for that. So that is definitely propelling me forward. And of course, yeah, I'm a father.

[Torre]

But if we see you, we know he really wants to do this because he don't have to leave the house.

[David Alan Grier]

Yeah, but that doesn't mean everybody else is gonna buy what you're doing.

[Torre]

It doesn't mean you deeply care about whatever movie, play, TV show you're into. You don't have to do anything.

[David Alan Grier]

No, I've done. I mean, I'm not gonna sit here and name the projects, but I've done a bunch of stuff where I just went, listen, I gotta keep working.

[Torre]

Right? Right.

[David Alan Grier]

So, you know, I got a wife, I got a kid. I got this, I got that. Let me do that. I mean, dance. I did Dancing with the Stars. It wasn't because I can make a moment. No, it's cause they paid me a bunch of money and my marriage was falling apart, you know. But I remember I was at the Whole Foods and this black dude was bagging my groceries. And he said, first of all, when you're on television, people there's this unnatural intimacy.

[Torre]

Oh, they know you.

[David Alan Grier]

Yes. So he said, man, let me ask you something, man. Why the fuck did you do Dancing with the Stars? I said, because they pay you just enough money to talk shit about you and you don't walk off, right? And he said, okay, all right. I have a new daughter and my wife and I were getting a divorce. So he thought about. He went, okay, then, respect, respect. Okay, I understand that. So, you know, I'm past that, though. I want my remaining years in this business to count and at least to go into. Because there's so many variables we can't control. So at least if I try to pick the right project for the right reasons, now, if it fucks up after that, I gave it a college try. But I'm not doing any more bullshit, okay? I'm not. I don't have time. I can't be, you know, Winky the clown for five years and be like, I'm 90, I'm ready. No, no. I remember when I did Porgy and Bess. Now, my entire career, there was never an opportunity for me to do Porgy and Bess. It just. No production had ever presented itself. So when that became. Came to fruition, I wrote letters to the director, the producer, and I told them, I need to play sport in life. And I want you to consider that now. Come. I flew across country, I did it, whatever, and I got this part. It was Audra McDonald. I'm not. It's the only time in 40 years I knew. I said, it is now or never. And I took it. I took that chance. It was one of the best and most incredible experiences of my life. So sometimes you have to do that bet on yourself. Torre, we're all waiting.

[Torre]

Did we come? You keep making me think of new things. Did we come at all close to getting any sort of in loving color movie out of the whole deal or out of one of the sketches? Because that would be the normal pipeline.

[David Alan Grier]

Well, I'll tell you what, it was talked about. One thing that I was really excited about is doing a national tour and the whole company of In Living Color. We would do standup element, we would do live sketches with the Fly Girls and a dj. That would have been. But it just didn't come together. It didn't come together when I was doing Porgy and Bess. So this is 2009, 10 11. A reboot was attempted. Now, what happened was, first of all, these executives of Fox cast a whole new comics. When it leaked out immediately online, all of our fans were like, we don't want to see new people. We want the old people. So then they said, okay, well, maybe they'll come by and contribute some. So, Keenan, those guys reached out to me. I remember flying to LA and Pretty much everyone was on board, except for maybe. No, everyone. I remember Jim Carrey, everyone. We all said, we'll come back, Jamie. Yeah. As far as I know. And they fucked us on the money. They wouldn't let us own the sketches we wrote. So it just fell apart. It's like, no, bro, you can't treat me like you did in 1989, in 2011. So it just was not well thought out. But also with me, I remember meeting with Kenan and those guys. Yeah, we're going to do Men On. I was like, really? Because I don't know if they do that.

[Torre]

No, it's a new day.

[David Alan Grier]

Yeah. So for whatever reason, but I think sometimes ignorance is bliss. And I remember talking to Keenan during that period, and he was just worn down. You know, it's different when you don't know the limitations. There are no limitations when you don't know. Tori, you can't do this. No. You're young. You're spreading. No, I'm gonna do everything. And that really was a lot of that spirit. No one told us what we could not do.

[Torre]

Right.

[David Alan Grier]

And there was so much about In Living Color that was breakthrough. I remember this older black gentleman came to me at the Atlanta airport and he said. He whispered, he said, I love your show, but I feel like you're telling our secrets.

[Torre]

Right, right.

[David Alan Grier]

And I said, we're telling everyone secrets, not just black people. We're telling all the secrets. It was a lot, of course. Yeah.

[Torre]

And it was dope.

[David Alan Grier]

But you understand, we were at that time and generation, all the stuff we put on screen In Living Color, this was the subversive whispered language of black comics.

[Torre]

Yeah.

[David Alan Grier]

You know what we should do if we had our own show? Can you imagine you talking about the Nation of Islam, the first black president, first black astronaut, all these things that were taken away from us, we were not allowed to talk about. And I'm telling you, that was a sub conversation that every black comic had. Hey, man, could you imagine? Oh, they'll never let us do it. Like, people don't know. Like, when Barack Obama was elected, he took out a whole slice of standup comedy.

[Torre]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[David Alan Grier]

It was gone.

[Torre]

Oh, yeah.

[David Alan Grier]

Yeah. Until he left.

[Torre]

Oh, my God, it'd be so ridiculous.

[David Alan Grier]

If he had a black president. Can you imagine?

[Torre]

They would never let.

[David Alan Grier]

But then the comedy deepened. Because I remember going on stage those first few months and the energy I got back is, well, so many people in miracles. So we solved racism, so now we can move forward. And you know how that shit is it only took a few weeks. And that's when the comedy really got. It's like, wait a minute. I don't think we did. And so, you know, boom, boom. But there's always shit to talk about.

[Torre]

Wow, what an amazing career.

[David Alan Grier]

It ain't over yet.

[Torre]

You have been so blessed.

[David Alan Grier]

I do feel that. I really do feel that, because I just didn't imagine all of this. I want to say something really quickly about Soldiers Play. Yeah. You know, in the moment when I stepped in to take over Larry Reilly's role in 1983, I had no idea that this one project out of all the others would keep coming back in different forms over and over and over. I never could have guessed that. A different role each time. But coming back, like when Kenny Leon, he called. I was sitting in the parking lot of Trader Joe's and Kenny Lenon was director. And I knew when he called, my heart sank. I said, he's gonna. I was situated. I was being a dad. I'm, you know, I don't want to leave town. And he said, hey, man, we're doing Soldiers Play. And at that point, I said, but it's. He said, it's never been on Broadway. I said, it hadn't. I didn't even realize that we did it off Broadway and it's the 50th anniversary. I said, really? And I said, yeah, but what part? And he said, the Sarge. And I went. I knew right then I have to rearrange my life in order to do this project. Those are the kinds of projects that I want to continue to do. Those things when I come, when they brought me something, and I have to say, I have to change my life to do this.

[Torre]

My friend said to me, who's 50 at this point, I only want to do stuff that. If you ask me if I want to do it, I say, fuck, yeah.

[David Alan Grier]

Yes.

[Torre]

Not like, yes. Not like, okay, but like fuck. And that's where you are. You're like, if the agent calls and it's a fuck yeah, then it's less than a fuck yeah. I'm not doing it.

[David Alan Grier]

Because anything less than that, you know, one of the things when you get older, which people don't explain, or as younger people, we don't understand your tolerance, your bullshit tolerance is l. It becomes shorter and shorter. Things you would have endured as a younger person because, you know, you're young. I just want to. Where can I get. In the first films I did, I never left the set because it was so exciting. I would sit on my stool they'd go, david, you got two hours off. You want to go to your trailer? Nah, man. I would just sit there and watch people. I still love acting. I just have a very short bullshit tolerance. Yeah. And that's really what happens when you get older. You're not gonna stand for the shit that you stood 30 years ago. 20 years. No. That's all simple.

[Torre]

Congratulations.

[David Alan Grier]

Amen. Listen, I am so happy. I'm so blessed.

[Torre]

Yes.

[David Alan Grier]

I'll reiterate. I did not think this industry would want me at this age. No, man. I'm just coming into it. I'm coming into it. My heroes are James Earl Jones, Father. Robert Earl Jones, I believe his name was. Oh. I saw him performing in Gospel at Colonus, who is almost 80 years old.

[Torre]

Do you have another job for 2025?

[David Alan Grier]

Not for 2024. Cause that's about the 2024 over.

[Torre]

I mean, you're gonna keep doing St.

[David Alan Grier]

Denis, but, like, God willing and the creek don't rise.

[Torre]

You have movies lined up for 2024?

[David Alan Grier]

Not yet, but my main energy is. I would love to come back to New York to do another. And look at Denzel. He's doing Othello next, and he just did Gladiator 2. So. No, I have more to say.

[Torre]

But as great. You know what, you talk about what a great actor he is, and of course, of course, of course, he's the man. What's with the accents? How come he can't get it right in the accent?

[David Alan Grier]

He's fine. Denzel. He's tripping, man. Do your Brooklyn thing. He's from. He's from Mount Vernon.

[Torre]

Gladiator. All the rest of them are doing the accent.

[David Alan Grier]

He's. Go watch Tony Curtis in this. I forget what the movie is. Oh, Spartacus.

[Torre]

So what's this supposed to be?

[David Alan Grier]

Do you eat? What does he say? Laurence Olivier. Do you care for lobsters, sir? No. Oysters. Yes, I do. I like. I don't like oysters. He's. He's straight from Brooklyn.

[Torre]

So what are you saying?

[David Alan Grier]

I'm saying that. Why you hard on Denzel? That's the best I got. I don't really know. I haven't seen the movie yet. But next week we'll talk and I'll tell you. Okay? Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Amen. Thank you.

[Torre]

Thanks so much to David for a great interview, and thanks to you for listening to Ray. Show gives you fuel to power your dreams, because you can use your. Like a rocket ship to blast you into a life you never imagined. You can make your dreams a reality. Maybe this show can help. Torre show is written by me, Torre, and produced by Ashley Hobbs. Our booker is Ray Holiday, our editor's Ryan Woodhull, and our distributor is DCP Entertainment. And we will be back next Wednesday with more amazing guests because the man can't shut us down.